What should I do...

[Think About It...]

I read back over and I see what you mean about the "still..." parts. I see that each time I said that it was about understanding that he feels bad but...I "still" need a relationship with my sister. I think that was my way of enforcing a boundary. Can you give ideas of how I could do that more productively?

Well, a boundary is about you, not him. And a boundary is enforced by what you do, not by what you say.

What negative consequences do you think would have happened if you had simply left out the "still ..." parts?

We had a thread a while back about "big hairy 'buts'"  The "but ..." that we feel we need to add after we validate feelings.  I get the sense that the "still ..." was a "but ..." variant

I see what you mean. It is hard to stop with the "I understand that this is upsetting for you."

Let's see, if I had stopped before the "still" parts, I suppose he would have...continued talking   ( I hear you Tentative one)

Why do I feel so stuck here? I'm thinking, how many times can I say yeah!, That must feel bad, it seem's this is really painful for you, I can see this is hard for you and I understand this brings up painful memories...

before he says something like, "well then why are you going on this trip?" or "why are you hurting me?" He does ask questions and then I feel like I need to explain that I am not trying to hurt him but (there's that word again) - DARN!  ?

Okay, so I need to let him talk out his pain. Wonder if you happen to remember a thread I started about this weeks ago. There was a conversation in which I listened to him about his feeling towards my Sis & BIL for a long while and validated his feelings. He REALLY seemed relieved...until this trip came up. It triggered all the pain again.

I'm not sure how to let him talk all his pain out without him shredding my Sis & BIL. He HATES them. ?

[onAmission]

I read back over and I see what you mean about the "still..." parts. I see that each time I said that it was about understanding that he feels bad but...I "still" need a relationship with my sister. I think that was my way of enforcing a boundary. Can you give ideas of how I could do that more productively?

Well, a boundary is about you, not him. And a boundary is enforced by what you do, not by what you say.

What negative consequences do you think would have happened if you had simply left out the "still ..." parts?

We had a thread a while back about "big hairy 'buts'"  The "but ..." that we feel we need to add after we validate feelings.  I get the sense that the "still ..." was a "but ..." variant

I see what you mean. It is hard to stop with the "I understand that this is upsetting for you."

Let's see, if I had stopped before the "still" parts, I suppose he would have...continued talking   ( I hear you Tentative one)

Why do I feel so stuck here? I'm thinking, how many times can I say yeah!, That must feel bad, it seem's this is really painful for you, I can see this is hard for you and I understand this brings up painful memories...

before he says something like, "well then why are you going on this trip?" or "why are you hurting me?" He does ask questions and then I feel like I need to explain that I am not trying to hurt him but (there's that word again) - DARN!  ?

Okay, so I need to let him talk out his pain. Wonder if you happen to remember a thread I started about this weeks ago. There was a conversation in which I listened to him about his feeling towards my Sis & BIL for a long while and validated his feelings. He REALLY seemed relieved...until this trip came up. It triggered all the pain again.

I'm not sure how to let him talk all his pain out without him shredding my Sis & BIL. He HATES them. ?

[onAmission]

So I have not talked any more with BPDh about the trip or Sis and BIL. We had a nice day yesterday as he took a day of vacation and tilled my garden 

He is taking Monday off too - need to get some things in the house and yard done. I feel very anxious today. He is acting okay, but my "spidey sense" (BPD radar) is going off. I feel like something is brewing under the surface and I'm just waiting for the bomb to go off. I can't relax.

How do you relax when you have these feelings.

BTW - My BIL booked the flights and hotel and tours yesterday - I'm hoping BPDh will "give me his permission" before I have to just tell him - "it's booked." Actually, I will be leaving Thursday and be back on the Saturday before Mother's Day - Yah! 

[liz84]

If you have given this alot of thought and have discueed it with your family, then go and enjoy it! Specially if
your kids are happy for you to go and enjoy yourself. Let your husband know you love him and will missing him but
you have plans to spend quality tine with him when you return. Good Luck!

[onAmission]

I feel very anxious today. He is acting okay, but my "spidey sense" (BPD radar) is going off. I feel like something is brewing under the surface and I'm just waiting for the bomb to go off. I can't relax.

Spidey sense was right on target. Sunday morning, he blew up and raged at me while we were getting the kids ready for church. He was yelling at the kids and being hateful. I took him aside and told him that I understood he was angry at me but that it was NOT OKAY for him to take it out on the kids and ruin Easter (again) for all of us.
The rest of the day, he was not raging, but just depressed and sulky towards me. 

He is mad about 2 things, first, the NY trip (which he has not brought up again) and second, he's hanging on to the idea that I drink too much. He is splitting and painting me all black right now. Sunday and Monday (he was off work Monday) were hell.

Last night he woke up and I was still downstairs. He came downstairs to find me reading. I was in the kitchen. He said he came down to get something to drink. He spotted my glass and took a sip from it. It was a "drink". He became enraged and started chewing on me. I told him I was not going to listen to insults and that if he could not calm down we could not talk. He calmed a bit and we talked a while. It did not go too well. I tried to validate but he was not interested.

I don't know what to do now  ? For weeks, we had reconnected and things were great for us. Now, he is dysregulated and you can cut the tension between us and in our home with a knife. I HATE this.   I want to reconnect with him and help him to become regulated again but the stress and FOG has me so upset I can hardly think straight.

What can I do to make things better now?

[onAmission]

If you have given this alot of thought and have discueed it with your family, then go and enjoy it! Specially if
your kids are happy for you to go and enjoy yourself. Let your husband know you love him and will missing him but
you have plans to spend quality tine with him when you return. Good Luck!

Thanks for the encouragement Liz. I am going to go - just dealing with him right now is proving very hard.

I'm back to dreading when he is home. NOT looking fwd to tonight when he gets home at all.

[onAmission]

Last night was not as bad as I expected. He came home in his mood of depression and pouting. We had argued the night before and he didn't like some boundaries I had to enforce.

Actually, we didn't really talk. I sat close to him as the whole family watched a TV show we like. I held his hand, told him I love him very much and kissed him. This seemed to help him lighten up a little.

BUT...this morning, he calls early (he KNOWS I'm REALLY, REALLY, NOT a morning person, grrrr!) and all of a sudden wants to talk about my trip to NY with my sister. Says he doesn't want it hanging over his head wheather or not I am going.

I took Tentative one and Auspicious' advice and I LISTENED to him intently (not one "but still...") and tried to validate his feelings. He said he appreciated that I was really listening to him.

I'm iffy about a boundary here. He needs to talk about his feelings towards my Sis and BIL but when he does, he accuses them of being the problem and sometimes insults them to me. I don't like listening to this.

Also, the whole time I'm listening intently, I can feel him not only just talking about his feelings, but trying to manipulate me with FOG from every angle.

I have not told him it's booked yet. In fact, he asked me and I lied. Just didn't feel prepared to deal with it yet and also, I WAS hoping that he would eventually give me "permission" (to his mind) so that he could end up feeling like the hero whose idea it was for me to go as he so enjoys. But that would have taken much of the stress of the FOG off of me.

I mean it was everything from how even though all expenses are paid for me except spending $, that the spending $ is just too much, and how they had wronged him and he didn't feel okay about the trip so why sould he have to fund it (what's his is his I guess...implys that HE controls the $ and it's all HIS because I am a stay at home Mom. JERK). He said that these past years with him losing his parents and us having troubles had been so hard on him and that he needed a time with no drama in it. I could go on and on.

I just listend and did a bunch of "Uh huh, that must be really hard, yeah, I can see houw you would feel that way...etc..."

Still, he is now acting "pissy" towards me because he didn't get me to say I will not go. There is no way around it really, he is going to be TICKED when I tell him I AM going and it is booked.

I wish for once, I could go and do something for me without (as someone here said) having my "joy" stolen due to the pressure cooker before the trip and the huffiness and "wounded soul" crap after I get home.

[Auspicious]

Still, he is now acting "pissy" towards me because he didn't get me to say I will not go. There is no way around it really, he is going to be TICKED when I tell him I AM going and it is booked.

Maybe you should just get it over with, then?  But only you can answer that question.

[harmony1]

onadmission

you have been doing great  handling all of this..even when we validate..they blow on holidays

your spideysense was right

he will be upset on and off til you go

he may make you pay for it with his behavior when you return

how are you going to handle that? (hint listening and validating you cant change him)

   to some good work so far

[onAmission]

how are you going to handle that? (hint listening and validating you cant change him)

Thanks JC1! I am going to stick with trying to validate and listen even though it is so tempting to defend my decision.

Ausp, I do want to get it over with but the FOG has really made it hard for me to prepare for his reaction. I sense that he may get it over with for me tonight.

I've listened to his feelings. Is it okay for me to address some of his feelings in a conversation with him? I mean, I know that sounds like a "but still" however, I want to communicate to him that I am not the same as I was last year when Sis took me on a cruise for my B-day. He brings this up and how wrong I was to go and how it cost us a family vacation together (not) and how he just wasn't given a choice in the matter and we didn't care how he felt.

Can I start out telling him and letting him know that things are different now. Something like "I have been thinking about how you are feeling about this trip thing. I want to let you know that I realize this has brought up many painful feelings for you. I also want you to know that I really do care how you feel and it is not my intention to cause you pain. I have decided that I would like to do this with my Sis. I will miss you and the kids very much and will look forward to some special time with you when I return. Sort of like TO said (I think).

This FOG is killing me  ?

[harmony1]

om,

sounds like his main issue is he wants to take you to these places..he is mad at himself he cant


can you validate that and come up with something if it arises again?

have him plan something for your anniversary?

[onAmission]

You are right JC1, I sense that he feels bad he can't take me instead of my Sis with My BIL (who H feels intimidated and threatened by) funding it all. I see the ego and pride issues. I guess I have not validated that either.

I had thought to tell him that there will be a "first time" for me going with HIM to these places some day and that will be a totally different and in ways, more satisfying experience for me then. What do you think about me telling him that?

Is it okay to ad to my above conversation on telling him...

" I also realize that it is hard for you that you are unable to take me on these type trips & it must be upsetting that someone  you have had much pain with is the one that IS able to do this for me. I want to assure you that I love you deeply and $ lots or little will never change the feelings I have for you. I respect you very much. As I've said many times, I have never for one moment in our marriage had to worry that you would not be a hard working man."

[onAmission]

Oh...and I love the have him plan a trip idea. He thinks that my going on the cruise "stole" a 20th anniversary trip for us as well as a family vacation and he never lets me forget it.

Our 21st is in June. I will ask him to plan a trip then. He will, of course, respond "I can't because you are taking the money I'd need to be selfish and go on this trip with your sister."

Now how do I respond to that one?

[Auspicious]

Can I start out telling him and letting him know that things are different now. Something like "I have been thinking about how you are feeling about this trip thing. I want to let you know that I realize this has brought up many painful feelings for you. I also want you to know that I really do care how you feel and it is not my intention to cause you pain. I have decided that I would like to do this with my Sis. I will miss you and the kids very much and will look forward to some special time with you when I return.

Hmm ... my gut is saying "too much, and too much about you". But every couple is different ...

Sort of like TO said (I think).

Let him talk and you simply listen..and try to feel it..and try to understand. It can be very, very enlightening and humbling to do so. Its a real way to start the healing process.

[Wanda]

 I think you did really well now just expect a rocky road and a lot of validationg till the trip and of course a alot of listening.
 YOur husband will pout mine doesn't even do that it is just rage rage rage , once he is done we go on as if nothing ever happened. remember if things get to hairy take that time out, letting him know you want to listen but you will once things calm down.
 once i did this a few times, this helped decreased my husbands rages due to he wanted me to listen and he wasn't getting that if i left. x

[onAmission]

Yeah! I see LOTS of validating in the next few days especially.

He got home about an hour ago to pick the kids up and take them to an activity. When he came in and said hello and I was really nice and said hello and kissed him (just normal hello), he gave me the strangest look. I asked what and he said nothing. I asked again and he said that he just figured that after our phone conversation this morning I would be upset with him.

I said no, I'm not upset with you at all. He looked dazed and said - you realize I'm not used to that, right? I said yeah, I do.

He was very loving after that.

NOW I realize, he took our conversation this morning to mean that I am NOT going on the trip because it would hurt him.

Yeah! This one is gonna really be a blow up. *sigh*

[Wanda]

 just hang in there and hold to going on the trip. don't give in..
i want full details of your trip which i am sure you will have fun once you get back...
 you are changing what he is use to you doing and so he is just not sure how to react, that's okay he will get use to the new you and things will even maybe in time improve,
 you'll see  x
 

[onAmission]

Thanks TO,
I needed that. I'm not giveng in. I'll get details to you when I get back.
 x

[supperone]

WE ALL CARE AND LOVE YOU, HAVE A WONDERFUL TRIP...and don't dare think of us or H, Your kids will be fine !

[onAmission]

Thank you guys - your support is so needed!  x

Today's story...
With one stroke of the brush, I am painted black again. I just told him. Probably didn't do it the right way (I think I'm chicken or maybe I thought this would be easier.)

Everything has been good over the weekend and up until 15 mins ago. We were having a pleasant, even happy, conversation. I asked him if the NY trip would be any easier for him if I could be home the day before Mother's Day.

That started the ball rolling. He said I didn't care about his feelings but that aside, we could not afford it and he thinks it is very selfish and self absorbed for both My sister and me to even consider doing this. (sigh)

I told him I care very much about his feeligs. Lots of...I understand this is difficult for you, I care about how you feel, I want do do what I can to help make this easier for you...

He told me I might as well go because that what I was gonna do anyway but it would not be with his blessing and he does not agree in any way with the decision.

I validated (broken record) again. I then told him he would need to take Friday off to take our kids to co-op. He said great, I have to take another day of vacation so you and your sister can go off on some whim.

I said that I was sure the kids would love to be able to share co-op day with him since I am always there.

He said he just could not answer that about the vacation day (I sense he will be unable to but I can throw a backup plan together with friends if need be) and that he just couldn't talk about this right now.

I told him okay and he hung up.

A beautiful day, a wonderful mood, the possibility of an enjoyable family evening...all obliterated in an instant. This stuff is really hard (sigh)! 

p.s. ...but I'm still going to NY 

[Auspicious]

I told him I care very much about his feeligs. Lots of...I understand this is difficult for you, I care about how you feel, I want do do what I can to help make this easier for you...

Just a note ... I'm not sure that really sounds validating.

If he's saying "you don't care how I feel" and you respond "I do care how you feel", that is actually invalidating, in my opinion.

A beautiful day, a wonderful mood, the possibility of an enjoyable family evening...all obliterated in an instant. This stuff is really hard (sigh)!

Definitely

p.s. ...but I'm still going to NY  wink

Excellent