What should I do...

[Think About It...]

 
You are right Ausp. I see that now.

Maybe that would have been a good place for something like "it's understandable how this situation could make you feel that way." (Iknow...then...crickets)   

[onAmission]

 
You are right Ausp. I see that now.

Maybe that would have been a good place for something like "it's understandable how this situation could make you feel that way." (Iknow...then...crickets)   

[onAmission]

Okay...those Darn crickets are killin' me!

He just called to begin the FOG.

I am now the most selfish, coldhearted B**** to walk the face of the earth. He drug out all of the issues he had over the cruise last year. And is telling me that I am to blame for the rift between him and my sister. WTH! 

I need to chill and breathe. He raged pretty god and I know he will come home angry. When this happens, I get the shakes.

[harmony1]

Everything has been good over the weekend and up until 15 mins ago. We were having a pleasant, even happy, conversation. I asked him if the NY trip would be any easier for him if I could be home the day before Mother's Day.

I used to make this mistake..now I just dont mention ANYTHING it unless he does..if its something I need to cover (like the kids) I just pop a short email..in general I try not to rely on him as much now

nothing else..short and sweet

it helps..I realized in myself how I was creating the drama myself in doing this

[onAmission]

Hey JC1,
Yes, I do know that less is better and I will not mention it to him again unless it is a business part about the kids now.

But actually, I wasn't just bringing it up on a whim today. This was the day I decided it was time to let him know I AM going. Up until now, he has been thinking that my validating his feelings last week meant I was not going. I knew I had to let him know that is not the case and soon. So, now he knows.

I just couldn't see me saying...Oh, by the way, I AM going on the NY trip. I think it would have triggered him much worse. Still learning. Not easy to know what to do.

[onAmission]

I'm "foggy" about validating & boundaries on this one. I took the advice to just let him talk and talk and I tried to validate. But, when he said I was being incredibly selfish and that I was the reason the rift was between him and my sister, and that he would never do something so selfish and that I'm taking from the family; the kids by expecting a lousy $50 in spending, I feel attacked, as a Mother, a wife and a person.

Am I allowed to say anything when he says these things, or do I have to just listen and tell him, I understand that you feel upset?

Plus, about the $. We have several projects that need to be done in the house and the kids rooms. Am I to feel guilty about wanting some spending $ for an all expense paid trip to NY. Does that make me a selfish person/Mother? I started by saying I'd only take $100 for spending, now I have gone down to $50 trying to appease him.

It didn't bother him to spend $90 on running shoes that he still can't use because of a long term foot injury  ?

I am mentally exhausted ?

[Auspicious]

But, when he said I was being incredibly selfish and that I was the reason the rift was between him and my sister, and that he would never do something so selfish and that I'm taking from the family; the kids by expecting a lousy $50 in spending, I feel attacked, as a Mother, a wife and a person.

Am I allowed to say anything when he says these things, or do I have to just listen and tell him, I understand that you feel upset?

If he attacks you, leave the situation.  Say "I don't want to be spoken to that way" and leave the room.  You don't need his permission.  Don't argue, don't try to get his agreement that he was out of line, or any of that.  Just protect you by walking away.

Obviously, the lines are gray and it's a judgment call.  Basically, when you've had enough, leave.

[supperone]

... It is not easy dealing with a BPD person, let alone how dare you leave me and the kids behind, while you go off to have fun. I'm not surprised at all that your H is throwing it in your face, you can't change his thought process, so lie low, don't allow yourself to crash if you got the shakes. The only advice I can give, is don't let your H burst your bubble. You need this time with your sis, and H will get over it. Bringing up the past and blaming you is his illness, ignore it, focus on that trip. Enought drama already...  Take Care and Have a wonderful time !

[onAmission]

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

Supperone, yes, the DRAMA...I want it to END, but he is not letting up.

He has called me 4 times this morning already to tell me how horrible this is for him. I've tried to let him talk and validate but then it turns to an attack.

I took your advice Ausp., on the last call, and told him that I would be glad to talk when thigs were calmer but that I was not okay with him attacking me the way he was  and also, I had things I needed to do and he did not need to revert back to calling me every 10 mins. Then I got off the phone.

I half expect him to come home during lunch so he can rage at me some more. I'm very nervous. He is making this HELL for me 

I know it is the illness, but it is scary for me. He is coming at me with everything he can think of. Accusing me of everything under the sun.

Last phone call he told me he wanted me to stop telling him that I understand he feels the way he does. He said, "I think that is a tactic you are using on me so that you don't have to take responsibility for what you do but you can do it without causing a blow up. I read about stuff like that in some of the sales books I've had to read."

I'm running out of words to validate with and he is not feeling validated it seems. I think the only thing that is going to make him feel validated is if I said I won't go and he was right and I was wrong.

The trip - I don't leave until May 7th. I'll be back on May 9th. How am I going to survive this until then  ?

I'm sorry guys, I know it probably feels like I'm beating a dead horse here, but he just keeps coming at me and coming at me. I can't ssem to do anything right. It's wearing me out 

God, all I want to do is take a 2 day trip. How much hell do I have to go through for that?

[Auspicious]

I took your advice Ausp., on the last call, and told him that I would be glad to talk when thigs were calmer but that I was not okay with him attacking me the way he was  and also, I had things I needed to do and he did not need to revert back to calling me every 10 mins. Then I got off the phone.

That's good!  Hang up if you have to - seriously.  "We've already talked about this; I'll talk to you later. [click]"

I half expect him to come home during lunch so he can rage at me some more.

If he does come home and rages at you, leave the situation. "I'm going for a walk / to the library / to the store / to my mother's for a visit / to whatever; I'll be back in awhile."

I know it is the illness, but it is scary for me. He is coming at me with everything he can think of. Accusing me of everything under the sun.

Are you afraid that he might get violent?

Last phone call he told me he wanted me to stop telling him that I understand he feels the way he does. He said, "I think that is a tactic you are using on me so that you don't have to take responsibility for what you do but you can do it without causing a blow up. I read about stuff like that in some of the sales books I've had to read."

You don't have to stop saying that because he says to, of course, but ... that is not necessarily the best way to do it.

Validation is not about what you understand, it's about what he feels.  "Yeah, feeling nervous sucks" is probably a better response to say than "I can understand why you feel nervous". 

"Wow", "yeah" and so forth are often useful as well.

Maybe reread our workshop on validation?

I'm running out of words to validate with and he is not feeling validated it seems.

Don't forget you can validate his skepticism about validation.

Him: I think that is a tactic you are using on me so that you don't have to take responsibility for what you do but you can do it without causing a blow up. I read about stuff like that in some of the sales books I've had to read.

You: I am talking differently, you're right about that. I'm trying to listen better. I haven't been a very good listener before, so I am trying to be a better listener.

I'm sorry guys, I know it probably feels like I'm beating a dead horse here, but he just keeps coming at me and coming at me. I can't ssem to do anything right. It's wearing me out 

Protect yourself - don't listen to it!  Hang up.  Leave the room.  Do what you have to do. Those things probably feel "extreme" ... but are they more extreme than what you are suffering listening to it all?

[onAmission]

Thanks Ausp. That helps me. I think I will read the validation workshop again. I put some calming music on and went through some breathing exercises as I prayed. I feel somewhat calmer now.

He has become violent in the past but not since I left 2 years ago and stayed gone 2 months. Before, when he was dysregulated, he would call me every1-2 mins to rage at me. If I hung up, he'd call and leave message after message. If I turned the ringers off, he would come home and insist I talk. If I left the room, he would try to block me and then, when I pushed by, he would follow me all around the house and even outside.

I did start leaving the house eventually. That is hard to do when he is raging and the kids are here. If I try to get the kids to come with me, he would yell at them and tell them they could not go. I tried to avoid them going through this.

Like I said, he has not done this for 2 years, but I still feel nervous when he gets to this point of dysregulation that he will start doing that again.

He has not called back or come home. I'm hoping he will leave it alone now.

Thanks for the support. I am working on me and remembering that I don't have to just "take it".

[onAmission]

Okay JC1
"assertive not aggressive" (from your other thread).

Let me give this a shot:

Him: Because of your decision to go on this trip despite my wishes, I no longer feel close to you. I don't even want to TOUCH you.

Me: Yeah, I hate it when we don't feel close. By the way, I need to make a change in how I am responding to your dissapointment over this situation. I am going to be unable to continue discussing things we have already talked about, etc..."

Suggestions  ?

[united for now]

I hate being blasted like that  
The uncertainty - the fear - the worry  

It can really suck at times...

A couple of things I want you to really start thinking about...

* Work on radically acceptance - there is probably nothing you can say or do that will make him feel good about this trip. Even if you caved in and cancel the trip, he will use it against you that you wanted to go in the first place.

* understand that what you are experiencing right now from him is also normal. It is called an extinction burst. You always responded before to his emotional blackmail, and since you aren't this time he is increasing the pressure to get you to cave. Read the workshop - US: what is an extinction burst and intermittent reinforcement http://BPDfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0 and definately watch the video, it will help you see how it works in action.

* part of taking care of ourselves means that we work real hard on not allowing the FOG to sway us. We work on our own internal dialogues to keep out the feelings of wrongness or badness they try to get us to accept. We practice believing in ourselves and loving ourselves enough to do what is right for us.

* validation has it's limits. There are many times when we need to take a time out to protect ourselves from their painful words. They aren't allowed to lash out at us to cause pain. We don't have to sit there and take it on the chin, hoping they will calm down or that we find the "right" words. There is a point they cross where we have to say "enough" and walk away... It protects us and teaches them to comm with us

I know this stuff is hard  x
Reread the suggested workshops one at a time, and then try to see how they fit this situation. How coud you apply the ideas in this situation?

[Auspicious]

I was going to type a suggestion, but UFN beat me to it, and I think what she's asking you may be more helpful in the long run

So listen to the donkey!




(just in case you have your avatars set to not display, UFN's avatar is a donkey ... I am not smoking anything odd)

[onAmission]

Thanks Cookie Monster & Donkey  I am listening. You are giving me what I need too. It's great to be able to come here when I am feeling panicked and have some calm, solid advice.   x

I'm going to be reading workshops today.

[Wanda]

, he would call me every1-2 mins to rage at me. If I hung up, he'd call and leave message after message. If I turned the ringers off, he would come home and insist I talk. If I left the room, he would try to block me and then, when I pushed by, he would follow me all around the house and even outside.



  i hated that you do what you are suppose to and they still rage on the phone at you and when you don't answer they leave messages i use to have several from my husband i still get them but can delete them and not even listen to them now.  i wouldn't even come home till if i started listening to a message he has calmed down, because if i went home and he started in i just left again.  my husband use to follow me outside and drive and followed me when i left i use to have to drive to the police station. those were  horrible times, he doesn't do this any more even calling me several times has slowed down due to i dont' answer him. THere were also several times i was scared for my kids due to the same thing he wouldnt' let the kids leave he thought this was his way to keep me listening to him rage, i started  prepareing the kids also for a plan when he started they grabed what they could and ran out first, then i went, i wanted to make sure they were safe, or i would make sure they stayed in their rooms during these times.. i hated these times thanks god i don't deal with that any more. not as often anyway.

[onAmission]

I know, the kids - that is hard. I'm glad you are past that part Wanda. I appreciate your tips.

One hard thing for me is that we did have a great breakthrough a few months ago. For the first time in years, I had hope for us and we felt close to each other. It seems like this one incident has wiped all of that out.

And the stress of it all is taking a huge toll on my health too!

[Wanda]

 take deep breaths, do alot of walking away, but you keep to what you want to do and that is that trip i want details i am sure you will have fun.
 i know what you are going through my husband is the same way wont let up if i want to do something for me.
 and it can be real draining, i just keep leaving,the house. like i said this was a long time ago he lets me leave now and my kids are older so i don't worry about them much.  not only that rages are so far and few in between. keep your goals though and go on this trip no matter what...

[supperone]

I really feel for you, your getting the best advise, I was at the place your in right now with your H, It is normal how he is and really he probally hurts too, just can't express it in a normal conversation, we can't get into their heads, so we must stay strong and don't back out, H will bring it up one way or another and might even give you punshishment of some form when you return. Don't back down, your H has to see that you don't fear him, if he feels his deeds will cave you in, he will continue to try and break you...Sooooooooo Stay Strong My Friend, it really does get easier, when you show backbone, and I bet you will be surprised, the feeling you get, its like taking back apart of yourself and what a wonderful way to celebrate that  feeling with a trip with a loving, caring, sister. You do realize he's jealous of your relationship with her. Take back your power, I'm getting stronger and if my H can't accept  the new me, does not love me for me, then I'll do what I feel is right. It's hard work, but look at the loving people on board supporting you, and they do care.  Superone

[onAmission]

Well, all was quiet last night and he's only called me once this morning about a business item.     (calm before the storm maybe)
 ?

I am hoping he is nearing the acceptance stage of his "extinction burst". But, with two more weeks to go until the trip, I doubt it will last.

I'm staying strong though. Feeling better today. I've been deep into dealing with some school stuff for my kids and I'm planning to spend the evening relaxing while working in my garden. Praying H will not throw a kink in that but I'm preparing just in case.

[harmony1]

sounds good..

have you made your backup plans so he cant mess with anthing while you are gone?

childcare backups? anything he can "forget to do?"