PERSPECTIVES: Relationship recycling [romantic partners]

[C12P21]

Really enjoyed reading this, I have these very same thoughts.
I think however there is a component of both in relationship, needing to be loved, and loving to be needed. We are not islands, we are interdependent of the other. That is relationship.
I loved this man for a lot of reasons and yet I realize there was an addictive piece to our relationship which is why I am struggling, unmet childhood needs AND the whole fairy tale of the "one and only".
But I don't think the struggles are due to these issues, the struggle is we (nons) loved our partners in a meaningful and real way. Not to rescue, or to be fulfilled only out of unmet childhood need. Rather, our ability to love is based on bonding and attachment-the healthy stuff of love, the care, the knowing you are there for another person through the challenges and joys of life. To have it change over night is absolute devastation. It is. And then we pick up the pieces of our shattered hearts and lives and try to figure out what happened.

[lifeisgoodx10]

You will never get answers from a disordered person. They are too skilled at manipulation. You are very useful for them to project their bad selves onto. They really do not want to let you go unless they find a new substitute- and even then, they’ll like to keep you guessing about things. It's a win/win for their disorder.

This statement is brilliant! It is right on the money. No matter what stage in the r/s with one of these BPDers it always win/win for them and we will always be guessing when the next shoe will drop.

[State]

i'm reasonably i've dabbled in the odd substance. I think the element to that is the same as part of being in a relationship with somebody with BPD. Its not all of it but its part.

When you first try a new drug its an overwhelming experience. Its a euphoric high that seems to have no downside, its the answer to everything. After the first time you go back for more eagerly and its good but not as good as the first time but you think no matter i'll try more and that first time experience will happen. You carry on chasing that experience until you've lost yourself that euphoric feeling has  gone. You need the drug now or you'll fall far lower than where you started. Still underneath it all is an illogical hope for that first high but it won't happen. You've lost far more than you have ever gained and you know you need to stop but now it feels you couldn't cope without that chase.

This is more a description of drug use and i'm not suggesting real attachment and love dont have alot to do with a relationship with a BPD sufferer but this dynamic is certainly an element of it.

[C12P21]

This is more a description of drug use and i'm not suggesting real attachment and love dont have alot to do with a relationship with a BPD sufferer but this dynamic is certainly an element of it.

Yes., for some folks this may be true. I don't think everyone experiences that high. Some people experience a connection.  I suspect attachment and bonding is the reason nons try to figure out how to heal the relationship and understand the disorder. There is a component of compassion and care in our psyche to support our mate when they are struggling. The difficulty is to know when the relationship is a facade and toxic and when support becomes co-dependency and fixing. Understanding how healthy relationships evolve, look like and feel is difficult if these behaviors are not modeled to us as children.
I suspect thats where the deep seated anguish arises, the destruction of the illusion and the fear we did not meet the needs of our partner. Hence, the non is left believing they contributed to the demise of the relationship. Further contact and questioning to try to sort out "what happened" - so that there is some sort of understanding or closure- is usually fruitless. The BPD creates further damage through their manipulation and lies. This is difficult to comprehend, I suspect some people believe their partner has had an emotional/mental breakdown when experiencing this without understanding what is occuring within their partner. Thus, more contact, more emotional pain or confusion until the realization hits-this is real and the relationship in the beginning was the illusion. The person we loved will not return to us, no matter how hard we try to reach them.
How did we contribute to the demise-through expression of genuine care and concern for our partner-driven by attachment. The overwhelming pain and confusion is due to not only the end of the relationship. There are unique components too, the idealization stage, the bonding, the abrupt end, the verbal abuse that may not have ever occured prior, the confusing statements, and the unwinding of the relationship is very painful.
Emotional pain is grieving, it hurts. However, the continual grieving without reprieve I think is the unresolved childhood issues. Abused and neglected children may have limited bonding and carry this image inside of being unworthy of love or being terrified it will leave. Not being adored, loved and protected by your parents the first three years of life influences how solid we feel within our core self. The challenge is in order to find this sense of solidness we must learn to love ourselves. I don't think all nons are seeking the high, I think we are struggling with our feelings of attachment to a person we love and care for, and facing the realization they are incapable of feeling the same way for us or themselves. When this happens we revisit our abandonment issues.
 People who were unloved as children are not doomed to continous victimization by emotional predators, nor are we doomed to be bpds - but I do believe we must always be aware of what motivates us and be mindful when those triggers are switched. Rather than choosing to jump into another relationship, or sabatoge our healthy functioning with addiction/mind altering substances, we chose health in the form of friends, exercise, journaling, or therapy. This mindfulness is the difference - self awareness of our behaviors and it's influences/impact on another person, the ability to care, be genuine, to be in touch with our humanity.
I tried very hard to reach my partner-not because I remembered the high of our meeting, but because I know he is missing out on something wonderful, the feeling of attachment and connection. However, the deeper pain that remains and I have to work on in therapy are my issues from childhood and figuring out why I didn't trust my instincts the .
Thanks for the posts.
C

[Skip]

This is a survey of 84 members from the Leaving/Disengaging Board asking members to categorize their most recent contact with their ex partner.

Response -------------- 5% 25% 6% 48% 5% 12%

Action -------------------------------------------------- A clear attempt to rekindle the relationship (Recycle) Contact - Anger/hurtful Contact - Looking for validation Contact - Trying to keep me engaged Contact - Informational Contact - Other

http://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=102678.0

This shows that 95% of these 84 contacts were not about getting back together at all. The contacts (73%) were more about staying emotionally engaged at some level (other than getting back together) or expressing anger.

[PDQuick]

This workshop is helping put together all of the pieces of why we do what we do.

There hasnt been any talk of a few things, and I feel like the perfect example of these things, so I want to inject them into the scenario.

The first one is ignorance. There is a huge difference between ignorance and stupidity. Ignorance is not knowing any better, and stupidity is knowing better, but doing it anyway. During the time I kept recycling, I had a vague understanding of the entirety of what was going on. I was ignorant on several levels. I didn't know of the complexities of these disorders, and I didn't know that someone else's thinking could be so vastly different than my own.

I felt that people should have basically the same thought processes that I had, and that they would act, and react, in similar ways to those of my own. The absence of these things confused me, and left me wondering, and trying to make sense of those things that I didn't understand. I took words as concrete, and actions as maleable. I chose to see what I wanted to see, because it fit my idea of a good outcome. This leads me into the second thing I wanted to point out.

It is a term that is called "scotoma". The mind sees what it wants to see. I wanted to see that she loved me, and I contorted my view of things to flavor that outcome. I took things that should have been red flags, and colored them rose. I sought out those similarities that we didn't share. I tried to see things as I wanted to see them, rather than what they presented themselves in their innocence to be.

I saw two halves to the person I was bonded to. I viewed one as the true core self, and the other as the conflicted person that needed guidance, love, understanding and patience. I gave of myself to try to fix that disordered side, so that I could have the "good" side all to myself. I never once, while we were together, accepted her as she showed me to be. I always saw what fit me, and wanted to keep that, and then desired to discard the rest. I was ignorant in the dynamics of the disordered, and I was blinded by scotoma.

Seeking knowledge and understanding of these dynamics that happened were paramount to realizing the immortal truth of these things. It was I that recycled more times than not. All the while, I held onto the victims mindset, wishing things could be the way I wanted them to be. I was the gladiator, consistantly putting my head in the proverbial lions mouth, and crying foul when the ultimate betrayal happened, only desiring more each time, to tame the lion from instinctively doing what they have shown time, and time again, what they will do.

[Matt]

This shows that 95% of these 84 contacts were not about getting back together at all. The contacts (73%) were more about staying emotionally engaged at some level (other than getting back together) or expressing anger.

I think, though, that many members here initially assume just the opposite:  Any contact from the ex with BPD must be an attempt to rekindle the relationship with the non - to lure me into a trap!

I think the way the survey was done - and thoughtful discussions here - brings out that that's really, usually, an assumption we make, and not the nature of the contact at all.

Maybe the assumption is motivated by the need to "win" - that is, to be the object of desire and attention - to be wanted.  A normal thing I guess, but any time we perceive something other than it really is, we're likely to make bad decisions...

[blackandwhite]

The pwBPD in my life is my mother, so I come at relationship dynamics like this from a family perspective. From my own experience and that of hundreds of adult children I've now seen tell their story on the coping board, I'd say in many cases what's happening when you see a recycling pattern is this:

The pwBPD (and often others in the family) has strong and rigid role expectations of the family member. You're supposed to be the heroic rescuer, the caretaker, the scapegoat, etc. If you deviate from your "part," the pwBPD (and often other family members) will take action to draw you back to the familiar role. For example, I was a caretaker. As I began to get healthier and impose stronger boundaries, my mother ramped up efforts to elicit caretaking behaviors from me. For one, she bought a blood pressure machine and would carry it with her, constantly taking her blood pressure in my presence or calling me to report on her blood pressure and sometimes having panic attacks when it was high (as it usually was, especially since she was having panic attacks).

Re-engagements are thus often about trying to return the relationship to the previous familiar pattern.

The non family member, for his or her part, often recycles in the relationship out of a strong desire to gain the approval--at last--of the pwBPD. The idea is that the approval of the BPD parent will finally "prove" the worthiness, the importance, the validity, the right to exist of the family member (especially an adult child). This fruitless quest for approval where there usually is none (as the pwBPD is more focused on meeting his/her needs than in validating a family member) brings the family member cycling back into the relationship again and again. Maybe this time, if I'm really really good at caretaking, rescuing, taking the heat...my BPD parent will finally prove my existence by approving of me.

The cycle can go on and on until the family member gains some insight that ultimately, validation has to come from within, and chooses to break it.

Thanks for the great discussion on this topic!

B&W

[DAS]

This triggers something in me.

I've never had a "break-up/make-up". Once a relationship of mine has ended, my partner has never sought to reengage at a later time - regardless of what I may have wanted.  This is true in every relationship I've had.

To be honest, it kinda hurts that no one that I have loved ever sought, or was open to any attempt by me to reengage.

  

[Skip]

noone that I have loved ever thought I was important enough to "try again"

Recycling is generally not a good quality.  It is about poor relationship/break-up boundaries.

All of my prior break-ups were "goodbye" and "done".  Maybe all of your breakouts were as conventional.

The recycling is messy.  It's about insecurities or not knowing what you want. I'm not so sure it equates to love.

[DAS]

noone that I have loved ever thought I was important enough to "try again"

Recycling is generally not a good quality.  It is about poor relationship/break-up boundaries.

All of my prior break-ups were "goodbye" and "done".  Maybe all of your breakouts were as conventional.

The recycling is messy.  It's about insecurities or not knowing what you want. I'm not so sure it equates to love.

 Fair enough. Thanks for that!

[schwing]

I have something else to add to this workshop.  I think this applies to the phenomena of "recycling."

In my relationship with my xuBPDgf, she was the one who always instigated the "breaks."  It happened more and more often towards the end of our relationship and got so frequent that I honestly didn't know when we were "together" or "separated."  From my perspective we never got enough emotional distance for me to be detached from her and as far as I can tell I was always emotionally enmeshed with her until she finally cut me off (ie, found a replacement).

What I would like to share as an observation is that my xuBPDgf could NEVER articulate what it was that she didn't find acceptable about our relationship.  From my perspective it was good and got better and then she got uncomfortable and felt like it "couldn't work."

In retrospect, clearly it was her disordered feelings which were driving such behavior from her.  If she got too close to me, her fear of abandonment would get triggered and she would need to get distance in order to mitigate that disordered fear.  This after each time we got back together, she would want to break up again soon thereafter.  But from my perspective at that time, I thought she was torn between her attachment to me and possible external obligations or influences (like her family didn't like me... even though they never met me).  Or I was projecting, thinking that she was unhappy but was too attached to me to move on.  Or whatever... I rationalized.  My point is that I filled in the blanks with my imagination.

I think that a good rule of thumb, is that if they cannot articulate WHY they left you in the first place, in a way that makes sense to someone else besides you (because you could be in denial), then you have to face the real possibility that they don't understand why they left you and they are only compelled to repeat (ie, recycle) their behavior.  People who are mentally ill might do the same things over and over again, each time expecting a different outcome. 

This kind of "relationship recycling" will drive a person mad (unless you are already disordered).  Because before you get the chance to heal from the wounds of the past, you make yourself vulnerable to the infliction of more pain.  Moreover, the constant state of alertness and anxiety in expectation to the next injury causes you to DEFER your recovery... compare this experience with war veterans who before they have "processed" the trauma of combat experience, are required to serve another tour of duty.  Think post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

My two bits, Schwing

[Matt]

That's an interesting thought, Schwing.

It's kind of the other side of something I've seen very often:  the inability to communicate needs.

In a relationship, communicating your needs is pretty important!  But I don't know if BPD sufferers can do that well enough to maintain a healthy relationship.  My ex often complained, but struggled (and in our divorce, still struggles) to state her needs clearly.  That made for an exhausting guessing game.

Now I manage that by e-mail - very arm's-length communication - and by stating my intentions and moving forward, letting her either state her needs or not.  That works OK but doesn't enhance the relationship because it doesn't bring us closer.

[C12P21]

Good information and lots to think about. I can see how I was caught up in the recycle..his way of doing it is different than mine but had the same effect, me wondering, wishing and hurting. I will post more later, thanks everyone for sharing, it helps.
C

[Mirielle]

Overstepping Conventional Boundaries/Boundary Busting/Using you (54%*) - Inappropriate post relations boundary breaking is common in dissolved relationships with a person suffering from BPD. People with BPD may overstep the conventional boundaries by asking for friendship, favors, validation, even sex after having disengaged from the relationship themselves.

This is rough and we can easily mistake this as another attempt to recycle. This can be very misleading, confusing, and even cruel to the former partner. Recognizing that this occurs and being hypervigilant about maintaining conventional post relationship boundaries is important.  It's might be emotionally hard to do - but it is important - don't get used - don't let your self respect slip any further.  If the person truly wants to get back - give it very careful consideration -and go slow. If your partner wants to jump back in right where you left off its a bad sign.

People with BPD are known to overstep personal boundaries in relationships and it stands to reason that they would do so post relationship. The motivations for the person with BPD are often selfishness and insensitivity rather than maliciousness.  Our hurt is all the same.

Percentages reference

I wanted to isolate this point. Looking back at my breakup/makeup relationship with BPDxbf, I believe breaking down boundaries is a way I was broken down for repeated future attempts, completely at his convenience. I was weak in the beginning, and probably a perfect target: recovering from divorce, recovering from infertility treatment failure (that alone can leave you a mess, and very vulnerable). I wish I understood BPD earlier in the relationship because I believe I could have saved myself so much anguish. To quote my BPDxbf: "Why do you think God allowed Hilter to continue as long as he did?" There's a level of insanity in this question but it's an interesting metaphor: how were so many brilliant, beautiful, talented people brought down by this madman? How were we seduced into the madness? What kept us hanging on? What keeps us searching for answers?

Somehow I believe, speaking of my own situation, I was broken down slowly and methodically so my level of acceptance for unacceptable treatment made me weaker and weaker. Like brain-washing. Before the previous wound was healed, he was at my doorstep again. Thus I remained in a constant weakened state.

At the breakdown of the relationship this LAST time (I'm emphasizing that for myself, really), I set some very clear boundaries/sets of rules and he has violated almost every one I can think of. It's like he's still thumbing his nose at my weak boundaries, challenging: "what are you going to do about it?" Many were unenforceable. He has behaved heinously, enough that to any other person I would come at them screaming "what is wrong with you?" I'm sure he'd like that. The solution appears to be a phantom toll-booth reaction which is to do the opposite; it's the only way out. Reacting shows I still care, one way or another, and I do believe the opposite of love is not hate. It's ambivalence to the point of not even acknowleging him at all.

I do feel sorry for him: I know his illness has roots in his father's behavior toward him and his father's relationship with others. His father is dead; he can't be questioned to his motives and BPDxbf will never find the final acceptance from his father, which is what he seems to have kept running after his whole life. And pardon me for this one, but using God to break down my self esteem is, well, a cheap shot. ("God must have deemed you unworthy...")

[ozzanoid24]

i guess where does it fall when they break up with you, a year goes by,and then dont even attempt to contact you after a year

[DAS]

i guess where does it fall when they break up with you, a year goes by,and then dont even attempt to contact you after a year

 See the advice I got :

noone that I have loved ever thought I was important enough to "try again"

Recycling is generally not a good quality.  It is about poor relationship/break-up boundaries.

The recycling is messy.  It's about insecurities or not knowing what you want. I'm not so sure it equates to love.

  It's not really something to aspire to. The reengagement is not about "love".

[Matt]

i guess where does it fall when they break up with you, a year goes by,and then dont even attempt to contact you after a year

 See the advice I got :

noone that I have loved ever thought I was important enough to "try again"

Recycling is generally not a good quality.  It is about poor relationship/break-up boundaries.

The recycling is messy.  It's about insecurities or not knowing what you want. I'm not so sure it equates to love.

   It's not really something to aspire to. The reengagement is not about "love".

Yeah;  I think it can even be kind of an insult.  "Hi, you remember how we struggled and broke up?  Well I'm thinking, I'm feeling down without you and I bet we haven't learned anything.  So maybe we could do it one more time and repeat the cycle again.  How about tonight?"

[fogbound]

This has been a superb thread and should be on a continuous loop presenting once or twice a day.
Thank you all

[Auspicious]

I think what makes it so hard for me to stop "recycling" - if indeed that's what I've been doing - is the knowledge (reasonably sure - I'm more confident about it than many other things that I "know") that what drives the breakups or bad spells is mental disorder.

Because if something is driven by disorder, then there is always the possibility that upon, ah, re-ordering, that things will get better. That possibility is especially tantalizing when the person in question is your wife of many years, and the mother of your children.

So I don't think it's quite as simple as just hoping foolishly that a leopard will not have spots. I think it's more like hoping that a person who coughs on you all the time might eventually stop (or diminish) the coughing, with proper treatment.