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Author Topic: Working through "The High-Conflict Couple" by Fruzzetti  (Read 787 times)
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« on: July 23, 2009, 01:23:34 PM »

Is this a good book to read? Should I give it to my wife as a way of introducing her to DBT therapy without using the words borderline personality disorder?

Based on the reviews, it seems like a subtle way of getting a BPD spouse to realize there is an easier way of dealing with things.

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This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

Steph
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2009, 05:06:31 PM »

 This book deals with a dysfunctional couple... it does not single out the person with BPD as the bad guy... it shows us that we NONS have our own issues and dysfunctional ways of being in relationship and ways to help it get better.

  So... no... .it isnt about BPD tho it really is helpful for a high conflict couple such as a Non-BPD mix.

Steph
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splitheart
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2009, 09:51:54 PM »

yeah, I got it for me & my wife.

I think it would be good if we worked through it together

she said she would but she's been pretty busy

I like it though Smiling (click to insert in post)

And I've learned things about it that I can use even without her
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peter chu
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2009, 10:58:23 PM »

Hi pls help,

You may need to be a bit more subtle. If you give it to her to read, she may be offended.

Just put in on the coffee table or anywhere visible to her. If she is intereted, she will pick it up & read it. You cannot force someone to read things that she is afraid to talk about.

Wish you luck.

Peter

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splitheart
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2009, 06:43:26 AM »

the way I approached it was I said I thought we could improve the communication in our relationship... .that neither of us did a very good job understanding the other's feelings... .and that both of us let our emotions get in the way sometimes.

my dw didn't seem offended

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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 08:02:02 AM »

SH, yep... because you are also taking responsibility for your part in it.  Good work!
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2009, 08:53:24 AM »

Hi

I bought 2 copies, 1 for each of us, I read mine alone. The now xBPDgf threw hers in the bin as she "doesnt need help, I do"... .

So be warned, it is a very good book but choose your moment !

I found it very informative to say the least

Rob
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 03:49:20 AM »

just found this thread today ofter ordering this book yesterday!

I don't expect any hostility to this book when it arrives. She is always telling me to read books if I don't understand something.

Plus she has books to explain my behaviour - emotional vampires and verbal abuse being just two.

seems like our individual research validates our own behaviour - her books says I'm wrong, my books says she is wrong!
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HeartOfaBuddha
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2009, 11:31:58 AM »

Sometimes they read the stuff that applies to them and say that they are reading it becasue it's what you do.  Really, they know it's what they do, but can't admit. 

Best to avoid the blame game, anyway.

My partner said she would read it and we would work on this together.  Then, she refused to have anything to do with it.

I suspect that's because it mentions BPD right on the cover.  I don't know for sure if that's why.  But, be forwarned - though the content of the book never mentions BPD - it is right there on the cover.  I hope it does work for you though.

Peace & Metta
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Seahorse1
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 09:23:13 AM »

My pwBPD wants to work things out and for us to go to therapy together... . 

Having been to therapy my self I realize that we don't stand a chance going to a one hour therapy session once a week... .  We can barely make it a few days without a problem... . 

I have taken time to get my self in a much stronger emotional place so that I can handle the relationship... . 

Mostly learning the communication skills needed... .  And started to apply them... . 

However, I need him to commit to work on his end too... . 

I'm going to suggest that we read this book together and Both work together on some basic things before going to therapy and failing... . 

He is in diagnosed but is aware of many of his faulty behaviors and thinking... . 

So is it really necessary to have a diagnosis in order to work on known areas of concern that are keeping us stuck... . 

He runs a successful division of a company so you would think he would appreciate this personal growth challange ... .  You know he's one of those... .  " I'm a man " type of guys... . 

I have shown so much strength and resilience to him over the last few days and told him how much better I feel about my self... .  Don't you think that would be appealing to him too?

Thanks,

Seahorse1
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elemental
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 09:30:33 AM »

It's very good.

One of the main things that came out of it for me what how I was setting off conflict by being "rightiously" angry.

It's taken a while for me to integrate it. I think in my relationship, at least, there is not a lot of room for ego or a lack of consideration in terms of respectful behavior.

I haven't shown it to my BPD. Typically he is very polite and speaks respectfully. But if he feels he is getting it in the face, ie, ANY anger or disrespect, even when he just got caught cheating or lying... .  he will IMMEDIATELY make the problem the anger on my part, rather than he just got someone else pregnant.

It's how he operates. Line of communication is immediately taken down by him, and he cuts off all contact.

Doesn't matter who is right or wrong.

So now I am on my own in a lot of ways, trying to come to terms with his actions. Because I have been too upset to talk to him without SHOWING it.

Not to digress. Excellent book.
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2013, 09:40:40 AM »

I read it. More than once.  The concepts are really pretty simple... .  Along the lines of, it takes two to argue.

I left it sitting out on the coffee table and my wife Aldo read at least part of it.

It has helped us recognize when there are topics too volatile for rational discussion.  And to take a timeout when deregulation starts.

I can definitely recommend it for the 'stop making things worse' phase.

Then you have to figure out a way to com back to these topics and discuss/resolve in some way.  A different topic.
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2013, 09:44:30 AM »

Thanks Elemental,

I follow your posts and you are dealing with a lot of "violations" in what would be considered a normal relationship... .  so I understand your anger!

If anything I hope you keep working on that for your own sake as from my own experience anger is soo self destructive... .  

Glad to hear from you!
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2013, 09:51:57 AM »

Thanks Yeeter,

I think this might help as the majority of our circular arguments are truly just manifestations of his insecurity... .  

Eg. For the BPD feelings = fact... .  I keep trying to remember that ... .  

So for example he will often bring up ex boyfriends and question/ interrogate me... .  

Days later he will tell me I know you didn't cheat on me... .  I really do trust you... .  

But it always comes back around where he is convinced I cheated or at the very least wanted to and creates a no win situation... .  

Eg... .  Please do not contact me until you admit you wanted to have sex with your ex boyfriend ... .  

So on my part I am learning how to communicate but on his part I am hoping he can learn to address his intense feelings of insecurity and handle them differently than accusing and questioning me... .  

Do you think this book would help in that way... .  

I will not move forward with him unless he commits to self growth.
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yeeter
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2013, 10:16:29 AM »

I think it would help for the dynamic.  And also validation... .  In that he is expressing feelings, even though the words that come out are accusatory towards you.  What he says is just getting scrambled in between the source feelings, and the words that come out of his mouth.

You can recognize this and change how you interact, which will help both.

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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2013, 02:11:39 PM »

I read about this book on the Lessons on this board.

Has any one read it?

I own it and have read it. My wife read it also, and we have talked of going through it and working on the exercises together, but still haven't done that.

These days things are going good enough with us that it feels like less of a priority. I don't think I'll mention it for a while.

Excerpt
I have shown so much strength and resilience to him over the last few days and told him how much better I feel about my self... .  Don't you think that would be appealing to him too?

Actually no, I don't expect that. When you start to stand up for yourself and take care of yourself, it is much better for your relationship. But that doesn't mean it is EASIER.

My wife probably got worse when I first started using boundaries, etc. She showed no sign of appreciation at the time. I felt better, although it WAS hard to stick to it.

But now she is deeply grateful for what I did--it forced her to deal with her own issues because she couldn't offload them onto me and blame me for them. Which was incredibly hard, but also made everything so much better in the end.

So don't expect any thanks... .  not soon, possibly not ever. But trust that things will be better for both of you anyway!
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2013, 05:28:26 AM »

Amongst various books I have read one is the high conflict couple

I have been careful never to label my partner as having any sort of illness as she's never been diagnosed by a professional, although here behaviours in my opinion bear parallels to a few things & I have had some success with the tools from this board

The High Conflict Couple - seems an interesting book in that in talks about behaviours but never labels them, hence I was thinking it's potentially a less confrontational book to share with your partner than others

To get to my point, has anyone tried sharing this book with their partner & if so how was it recieved?
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2013, 06:10:53 AM »

I just started reading the book myself.  I was wondering the same thing as my bf is undiagnosed.  There were a couple of things that I was feeling very compelled to share with him as they were so relevant to our relationship, but I'm thinking I'd rather read it in it's entirety and practice the theory first.  I'm not hiding the book by any means.  If he hasn't seen it, he's completely oblivious~~my suspicion is that he's not anxious to inquire.
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yeeter
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 06:34:30 AM »

I read it.  Then I left it lying out on the table (this was the ONLY book I have let her know I have read - even though it does mention BPD on the cover).

But she read it.  We didnt discuss it but I know she at least skimmed through it.

And more importantly, we have implemented the recommendations to a fair degree with great success.  A big big part of this was breaking the dynamic of when thing become emotionally escalating (at one time my wife wanted to make a detailed 'flow chart' - of the proper way to have an argument - yep, with boxes and arrows and ifthen loops).  This book has served to give her some type of map.

In hindsight, one of the problem areas with us was that my wife had never learned to 'fight fair'.  With her, every argument was taken to the extreme (with a lot of catastrophizing thrown in), no matter how big or small the entire lifes injustices were piled on to every argument.  She just never learned this growing up, and has held on to almost every argument she has had with anyone from early childhood.  THCC gave us a way to break the emotional escalation in the moment, and disengage (ie:  stop making it worse!).

What it did not do, was give us a way to come back to these arguments after the fact and seek compromise/resolution.  To a large degree we still are not able to do that part.
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2013, 08:39:13 PM »

What it did not do, was give us a way to come back to these arguments after the fact and seek compromise/resolution.  

I think that's something that I'd love to see.  Some of the arguments recur if they are not dealt with effectively.  I'm able at times to discuss behaviors that I'm not particularly fond of, but there really isn't any productive discussion.  If I mention anything he'll either drop his head like a sad puppy or get his hackles up like a big dog!  Does anyone know of a book, article, anything that has suggestions on how to approach a delicate subject after an argument that may help with resolution?
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« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2014, 10:26:04 AM »

I want to pick up a couple of copies and present it to my BPDw as a way to work through our problems.  There will be no mention of BPD.  What do you think?
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« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2014, 02:23:43 PM »

We are working through the book with a DBT therapist.  I don't think we could do it on our own but we don't focus on the BPD, more on the skills we are acquiring.
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2014, 09:15:44 AM »

It's a very helpful book
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2014, 02:47:20 PM »

I suggested it to my BPDw last night.  Of course, she didn't want to read it, but I said that I'm discussing the current issues until I read it and she's welcome to join me and read it herself.  I told her that the book teaches you do validate your partner and that I could validate her feelings much better than in the past.  She's upset that I don't want to do something for her - communication with my dad about something he did to upset her.  That's always been our big issue and I think it's all tied in to BPD.  She complains about something someone in my family did or said, I didn't notice, she wants me to talk to someone in my family about it and I don't want to b/c it's petty and/or trivial. 

She also reads self-help books and tells me what I'm doing wrong!  LOL
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2014, 02:53:42 PM »

I suggested it to my BPDw last night.  Of course, she didn't want to read it, but I said that I'm discussing the current issues until I read it and she's welcome to join me and read it herself.  I told her that the book teaches you do validate your partner and that I could validate her feelings much better than in the past.  She's upset that I don't want to do something for her - communication with my dad about something he did to upset her.  That's always been our big issue and I think it's all tied in to BPD.  She complains about something someone in my family did or said, I didn't notice, she wants me to talk to someone in my family about it and I don't want to b/c it's petty and/or trivial. 

She also reads self-help books and tells me what I'm doing wrong!  LOL

Can you imagine what your wife feels about this particular issue; what her underlying emotions are?  How would you go about validating those?

It's not as easy as it sounds
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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2014, 04:08:11 PM »

I suggested it to my BPDw last night.  Of course, she didn't want to read it, but I said that I'm discussing the current issues until I read it and she's welcome to join me and read it herself.  I told her that the book teaches you do validate your partner and that I could validate her feelings much better than in the past.  She's upset that I don't want to do something for her - communication with my dad about something he did to upset her.  That's always been our big issue and I think it's all tied in to BPD.  She complains about something someone in my family did or said, I didn't notice, she wants me to talk to someone in my family about it and I don't want to b/c it's petty and/or trivial. 

She also reads self-help books and tells me what I'm doing wrong!  LOL

Can you imagine what your wife feels about this particular issue; what her underlying emotions are?  How would you go about validating those?

It's not as easy as it sounds

I suggested it to my BPDw last night.  Of course, she didn't want to read it, but I said that I'm discussing the current issues until I read it and she's welcome to join me and read it herself.  I told her that the book teaches you do validate your partner and that I could validate her feelings much better than in the past.  She's upset that I don't want to do something for her - communication with my dad about something he did to upset her.  That's always been our big issue and I think it's all tied in to BPD.  She complains about something someone in my family did or said, I didn't notice, she wants me to talk to someone in my family about it and I don't want to b/c it's petty and/or trivial. 

She also reads self-help books and tells me what I'm doing wrong!  LOL

Can you imagine what your wife feels about this particular issue; what her underlying emotions are?  How would you go about validating those?

It's not as easy as it sounds

I know.  How should I handle this?
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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2014, 04:41:59 PM »

I should add that she's basically on strike as a wife and won't even talk to me until I do what she asks - that is to communicate with my father and tell her that it makes me sad that she's not on his email list... .

The fact is that I would do it for her, but in the past when I've defended her or stood up for her, it's never good enough and I get criticized and beaten up (emotionally) anyway.

Should I tell her that she never responds positively when I do something for her?  I think she'll just argue with me.  G-d forbid, she actually validates me.  That will never happen.
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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2014, 04:27:49 PM »

I've read parts of the book and it has helped me, but not our relationship, at least not yet.  I've taken a very positive approach in our nightly discussions.  I still have not been able to get her out of a totally negative mode.  She still brings up negative experiences from the past, she thinks that my family has always been out to end our marriage.  She recalled a conversation that she had with my father where he got angry and she interpreted his anger as him trying to destroy our marriage/an attack on her.

Tonight I'm going to try and steer the conversation in a positive direction.

She does not respond to my positivity with positivity of her own.  For example, if I say that I'm upset that we are so far apart emotionally and want to be close, etc, she does not respond with something such as "me too".  That type of response would be a deviation from the "I blame you and your family for everything" narrative that she always sticks to.

It's very frustrating.  I'm going to keep trying, but there will be a limit to my attempts.  If I can't have a good relationship with her, I'll give up and move on.
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« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2014, 09:03:38 AM »

I would recommend Stan Tatkins book Wired for Love.

His area of expertise was working with personality disorders. His couples therapy is attachment based and incorporates neuroscience regarding dysregulation. He teaches hi conflict couples skills to help co regulate eachother... .it's therapy for anxious & avoidant partners where dysregulation is common and damaging.

The High Conflict Couple is good too... .I think Tatkin goes further into How To ... .including how to repair after a conflict.
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« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2014, 10:50:13 AM »

Excerpt
I would recommend Stan Tatkins book Wired for Love.

Interesting because I have been looking into Stan Tatkins.  I know a couple that Skype with him and his wife (is it his wife or co-therapist?).  I would like my dBPDh and I to do some work with him next year, when we are through with the High Conflict Couple.  I think it would move our relationship further forward.
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