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One thing that I find I continually struggle with is separating my emotions.  Right now DD is going through this eating disorder.  We have taken her to a nutritionist that specializes in eating disorders and I am not convinced that this is going to help. She gets very angry about her eating issue and sometimes very sad and I find it makes me extremely sad also.  This seems to be a pattern with me.  My older daughter is currently going through a breakup of a long term relationship (I'm not unhappy about it because it is very clear to me that he is BPD and Bipolar) and has made her life quite miserable for some time.  The problem is that she is hurting so badly and my heart just breaks for her.  My T tells me I am to intertwined with my girls and that I need to realize that this is there problem and they need to learn to fix it on their own.  I am not trying to fix it but it seems as though I suffer right along with them.

I don't know how to stop myself from doing this.  I know "I can't make everything all better"  and I accept that I just feel like I am sad all the time.

Has anyone ever felt this way?

Griz

Hi, griz   

Yeah... . I feel like that too whenever one of my children (heck, my husband, Mom, sisters, etc.) are hurting. I'm not sure if it is enmeshment or just empathy. I think it is worse if you live with the person; I hurt for my other family members when I talk to them or see them and they are in pain, but seeing it firsthand on a regular basis (husband or son) with a loved one in my own home is worse. I feel the pain when I hear and see them in pain almost as if it were me in their situation... .

When this happens, I pray. I bring them up into the light and ask their Guardian Angels, the Holy Spirit, Jesus (heck, I start asking my Dad and my husband's Dad who both passed within the last few years!) to interecede with God and the universe on their behalf if the pain seems excruciating. Now, if I were not the person I am, I might summon other Higher Power(s), but this is what I do... . I have to say it helps, if only to calm me down and focus myself outside of the pain that they are feeling (and I am feeling for them), and I start feeling relieved that I've given it up to other forces to handle so I can let it go. I hope I don't sound weird, but I feel my loved ones' pain so much sometimes in times of extreme stress or tragedy that I cannot handle it without spiritual help. Not preaching; it's just what I do. I hope things get better for you and your daughters soon, griz   

griz

this is something I struggle with a lot... . if a friend is mean to my dd16 then I feel the pain intensely... . my daughter is dumped by her boyfriend in not a kind way I really have a lot of anger... . I think what helps me griz is that I now try to step back and think... . this is a part of life and a lesson they need to learn... . everyone has break ups and it is a lesson we all need to learn... . my dd will get better and be wiser and smarter next time... . I hope. My dd16 needs to learn that friends need to treat her better and she needs to have more self worth. I think when you can make that separation then you can look at the situation differently.

It is realizing when these moments present themselves and acknowledging how to be supportive but realize these things happen to everyone and it is their time to learn how to cope. i can't do that for them. I try to think about when i want growing up and when a similar things happened to me... . my mom was not there to solve my problem... . I did it alone and that is what made me stronger.

I can relate to this also... . what sometimes helps me is saying the serenity prayer:  God, Grant me the Serenity, to accept the things I cannot change, the Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference.  Sometimes, I substitute the person's name in place of "things" and say it or write it down several times in a quiet place.  I also read the book Taming your Gremlins and it talks about thinking of your skin as a protective "coating of armor" against outside "negative emotions" etc .   Love and peace... .

yep Griz, that's me too. It is easy to get into the 'blues' and requires effort to get out and stay out.

For me, I can get out of being extra sad, by 'opening my soul to the universe' and using the natural environment around me to support me. I remember to breathe deeply and breathe in the positive energy.

And I tell myself that if I am sad, I wouldn't want people around to be sad too. I want their sympathy, but I want them to be cheerful for me, to help me feel better.

It doesn't help those we love all that much if we allow ourselves to 'indulge' in the sads.

But, hey, you know me... . I'm not always that successful eh?

Cheers,

Vivek    

Wow... . I am glad I am not the only one. I feel as though these things are happening to me.  I know my BPDs brings 90% of his problems on himself. He really is destroying his life and I want so badly to stop it, but I cant. He lives out of our state, so it is not in my face everyday.  I do bring him to God and place him at his feet. It gives me peace for a while. I dont know if it is better to know whats going on or not.

Thank you all so much.  I have written down the suggestions on a little index card so that I can remember them.  I try really hard and sometimes my T makes me feel so inadequate and believe me I feel inadequate enough without any reinforcement.  Today I am feeling very sad.  DD had a bad eating day yesterday (as in no food at all ) and my older daughter cried her heart out all day.  I am going to try these suggestions today.

Griz   

Michelle Obama said that we are only as happy as our saddest child and I think she is right!  Seeing our children in pain in my opinion is the worst pain there is, and you are dealing with it x2 right now!   

One thing that jumped out at me is the comment you made about how you often feel when you meet with your therapist.  I think that is an indication that you need to find a new therapist, one with whom you feel more comfortable!

I am not sure about the nutritionist unless he or she is also a counselor.  When our 13 y/o DD was admitted to an inpatient unit several months ago it was because of bulimia and anorexia. As soon as she was discharged her own psychiatrist changed her therapist to another woman at the health center who had personal experience with an eating disorder and was very experienced at dealing with people who are suffering from one.  You might want to explore a different therapist for her too for that reason. 

I am so sorry you are going through all of this.  Your feeling sad is totally understandable!  More   

I love that quote Bio... . isn't it the truth!

One other thing I thought of griz is trying to put some distance into the situation. My dd18 recently broke up with her boyfriend and he was not kind at all. I had a lot of anger toward this guy at first but then I tried to think of myself at that age... . the break ups that I had as well. I recovered and life went on... . it is something that helped me grow and mature.

Try to relate it to something that has happened to you and see if that helps with the pain you feel. I don't think you will every stop hurting for your kids... . you are their mom and I think it is part of the job description.

Dear Griz,   

As a mom, you have what's called a "mother's heart", and you simply feel your children's pain. Your children suffer - you suffer.

My husband an I talk about it from time to time, and I try to tell him to detach, which is a healthy thing, but on more than one occasion, he has told me: "I am her father; 'in my children's afflictions, I am afflicted'" (that is a paraphrase from the bible "in all their afflictions, he was afflicted", where it talks about God and his empathy and compassion for his people in their hurt)... .

Being a mom or a dad is a special place - and being emotionally connected to our children is natural.

I think the trick is to find a way to release that pain and hurt and worry in a healthy way... .      

Griz, I am sure you will get through this... .    

Thank you all.  I am trying to find a way to deal with my own emotions better.  Right now we are going through an awful time with this eating issue and it is not going as well as I hoped.  Yesterday was yet another day that DD had not eaten a bite all day.  One day she eats and then the next day nothing.  By the end of the day she was so cranky and sad and she was not being very nice.  I found myself getting really upset so I finally picked myself up at went to my room(at 7pm)  I turned off the lights and I just allowed myself to be sad about what was going on and that was a bit easier than trying to make sense with her.

Bio:  I don't really know if this nutritionist is going to work. We only met with her once so far.  She works out of the eating disorder clinic in our local hospital.  She is suppose to go again today but as of last night she claimed she wasn't going.  I think you are right, I also need to find a new therapist. My T can help me with some things but I find that she can be very judgmental at times and loves to use examples of what she did with her kids that was better. 

I guess we will see what today brings.

Griz

It sounds to me she allows her ego to get in the way... . that is not validating to do that. I am glad you are looking for a new one. Look carefully, a good T makes the word of difference - I found that out.

take care Griz

Vivek       

Thanks Viv:  After my session with my T yesterday, I left knowing that I truly have to find someone else.  I thought I migth let her know just how invalidating she can be for me but that backfired.  I brought up the fact that I am truly exhausted with DD's eating issue  and that we had gone to the eating disorder clinic.  I told her that on the way home I was upset (sad) and DD asked me what was wrong and I told her that I was just really sad.  I mentioned that DD was sympathetic and apologetic and later that night she asked me if I could make a list of all the things I do at home so that she could pick some things out that she could do to make life a little easier for me. (this was big for me- DD being empathetic... . not focusing on just herself... . understanding that I am hurting also).  I no sooner shared my joy in this when my T told said; "there she goes again, not taking responsibility. Asking you to make a list for her.  Why couldn't she just figure out some things on her own".  I became quite agitated by this and I said, she wanted to know what she could do to help and I think that was really nice.  Again she reitereated how DD needs to be more responsible and I should have answered her with, "you see what I do all day, why don't you come up with some suggestions on your own.

Part II

I mentioned that I have been having a sad week with DD's issue, my older daughters recent breakup, my husbands job loss and my mothers ever worsening Alzheimers.  I usually try to be very strong all the time and T has told me that I need to express my emotions more so I told her that one night I finally got so upset that I started crying and I said I just can't do this anymore, I am so tired.  I was referring to everything in my life.  Of course she corrected me again saying that I should have said to DD, "  I am so tired of running you back and forth to therapy and the eating disorder clinic and I can;t take it right now".  I thought that would be a horrible thing to say so I asked her if her child had cancer and you were running them back and forth for chemo would you say, I am so tired of taking you back and forth for all this chemo and stuff.  Oh course not, no one wants to be ill (and by the way DD has an illness), why would I want to make them feel guilty.  Her answer was because feeling quilty is a part of life and she needs to learn how to process those feelings.  At this point I was a bit annoyed and said, "Well so is physical pain a part of life, so maybe I should just go home and stab each of my family members with a knife so they could learn how to process pain".  She continued to argue this with me and told me that this was my issue... . always being in control.

Part III ( and lastly)

She asked me what the Dr. said at the ED clinic.  I told her that he said he could "understand" how this morphed into a eating disorder.  DD starts to suffer, goes on meds, gains a tremendous amount of weight, loses all her friends, goes off meds, loses weight and now everyone is telling her how wonderful she looks and friends are comimg back around.  On top of this as she is losing weight she keeps hearing well meaning people tell her how wonderful she looks.  This reinforces that not eating is a good thing and people only like you if you look good.  That being said he told me we have work to do but he wanted me to understand how this happens.  When I told her this her response was, "well a NORMAL person would understand that people liking you is not based on how you look and a NORMAL person would be able to see that their not eating in unhealthy.  I interuppted twice and asked her to stop using the world NORMAL.  I was finding it hurtful.  And then she said, "well I would just tell "my child" that this is not the way we deal with things and she needs to learn to deal with her emotions in a more Normal way.

Ok... . here is where I exploded.  I told her that I thought she was the coldest parent that I had ever met and that I actually felt sorry for her children.  She backed off a little at this point and said that maybe she could understand a little since "her children" did not have issues so she could see that it might be different.  I assured that it was very clear to me that it was a good thing that she didn't have a child with issues. 

Sorry had to get this all out... . Looking for a new therapist.

Griz

Dear griz,  Good for you,  so hard to find a good therapist who really understands dealing with a BPD obviously she has no clue good luck in finding a well informed therapist mggt  

griz... . how terrible! Really what a horrible T... . I am sitting here just fuming! Getting a new T will be the first step in helping you and your dd... . put it behind you... . trust in yourself more... . stay strong... . I am just speechless... . in total shock... .

I think in Valerie Porr's book she talks about finding the right T... . maybe try and look at that again... . My dd is on her third T and she is the first T that has helped her. They are out there... . just keep looking.  

I can relate. I realized i needed to dump my T when I was feeling worse after seeing her than before. Keep looking... . you deserve better.

Oh griz, I had to leave reading your post, it does trigger wicked thoughts in me  . So I came back calmer and read it.

I am glad you are finding a new T. This one isn't doing it for you. It has been another learning experience that we feel we don't need, but which gets sent our way. I doubt I would benefit from her either.

There is though a possibility that she has seen stuff that would be helpful for you to consider. She says your issue is to have be in control. That's a common concern for us as parents and as a  my-issues, and understandable too. Maybe you could pursue this thought with the next T - when you have confidence in them.

Our relationship with our T can be so important, if we can hear from them the hard truths we can't see, it can help us. So we must trust them, trust their judgement and how they communicate with us is critical. Pick that next one out carefully, can you ask anywhere for a BPD recommendation?

Griz, this is all so ___ty. Can I please send you special hugs and cuddles for you. There's a book shop I visit sometimes with a corner just for people like me, run by this fantastic woman who understands and I reckon I could sit there a bit and send you some really powerful positive energy.

In the meantime, can you do that list of things with your daughter working on it with you? Would that be a good idea?

Vivek          

Oh Griz      

I wondered here and there, it that T has an issue of needing to prove to herself that she is a wonderful, successful parent... .

Good for you, deciding to look for a different one! And I wish you success finding a good therapist, one that truly understands you and is able to be helpful in a constructive way (rather than making you feel like a failure and making herself feel wonderful - ugh!    )

You are right on target - your dd WAS being empathetic. That was a wonderful conversation you had with her  |iiii . The idea of a list actually sounds pretty good to me (even for a non-BP, if they asked for it).

As Vivek  also mentioned regarding being in control: do you see that as a valid issue with yourself? Do you tend to take up too much responsibility and end up with too much on your plate, or do you see it differently (perhaps just too much happening at the moment)?

VIV and PO:  I have been working very hard on not trying to control everything for DD and I feel like we have both come a very long way.  It wasn't that long ago that I had to get her up in the morning, force her out of bed and keep on top of her for everything she needed to do and more often than not she wasn't doing any of it and I had to do it for her.  I am makingher more responsible I guess a little at a time.  Clearly not fast enough for my T  but for me each little step is a hurdle and it is for DD also.  I also see her taking on responsiblity without being asked.  Yesterday two big cartons came with the dogs food in it.  It is eight cases of food that need to be unpacked and then mixed up so he is not eating the same thing twice in a row (I know, I know, he spoiled).  Anyway DD not only dragged these huge boxes into the house but she unpacked them, mixed the food in each carton and then put them away... . I didn't even have to ask, it was done when I got home. 

When I reiterated to my dh how my session went with the T he thought it was ridiculous especially the part I left out in my last post, where she had lunch with a friend who is also a Psychologist and her friend told her she HATES DBT/ thinks is bulls... . t and doesn't really work. 

The funny thing was that I was at the end of telling my dh how annoyed I was at my T when DD walked in from being out with friends and she said to me.  Mom, it seems like you are upset alot when you come home from seeing her.  Why don't you call DBT and try to see someone there.  I said, that's a good idea I think I will do that.  She just politely requested that I don't see the same individual T as her.  I told her that they probably would not allow it but even if they did I could see why she might feel that way.

So I think I will take DD's suggestion.

Thanks for all your support.

Griz

griz,

It would seem that your T hasn't improved with age.  You are such an insightful person and you have worked so thoughtfully with your dd.  It is wonderful that she is maturing.  In spite of the T, perhaps.

I love hearing about your daughter, griz.  Transformations... .

Sweeeeet.

Reality

griz, your daughter sounds like she is really doing well, and you have every reason to be proud of her! Like Valerie Porr says in her book, we need to appreciate and hold on to the TLCs: Tiny Little Changes. I read that in her book ("Overcoming BPD" over and over and started to cry... . If you look at your loved one as taking baby steps to normalcy, and realize how hard sometimes even those steps are, it is easier to appreciate their progress. Just like you do!   

Your Therapist sounds like a pain; I'm glad you are looking into changing. In fact, your daughter had a great idea; your validating it and then following through and finding someone else in the same place she goes to, will do worlds of good for her self-image and great things for your relationship with her. Good job!  *)

|iiii Griz, your DD has made so many baby steps, she has gone a LONG way! It sounds great, and it is very encouraging to read about.

When I read your post about the T, one of my major thoughts was that the T does not appreciate all the progress you and DD have accomplished together, and that she is robbing you of the happiness and satisfaction that comes with it. Please don't let her, and enjoy all the accomplishments.   


|iiii Isn't that wonderful to have her support and validate you for a change? Isn't that HUGE?

I am so happy for you griz!   

good smart griz with beautiful ds.   

smelly old T who is judgemental and negative 

yay! Go griz  |iiii

Vivek    

So here is my update.  I made an appointment with one of the T at DBT and had my first appointment yesterday. She was able to schedule me the same time as DD's individual therapy so we go together (wow, what a great  outing)  I am so glad that I did this. Beside not being so judgmental as my prior T she also has extensive experience with all of the kids at the DBT center so she gets it.  she has also been one of the group leaders that DD and I are in so she knows her for a long time.  I told her what has been going on with my T and added that she didn't need to comment on it I just wanted her to know where I was coming from.  She felt that the T was being very judgmental and not giving me very positive feedback.

I told her that I wanted to explore my need to "control" and after talking a while she made me realize that part of my need to control comes from the fear of things going backward and also just the desire as a mom to feel my childrens pain and want to help.  We talked alot about PTSD and how I have been in crisis mode for so long and that as things are getting better I might be just now really dealing with my emotions. 

Well there seems like a lot of work to do and I am willing to do it. 

Griz

Wow, griz... . Your new T and situation regarding being part of the DBT team that your daughter is going to (Yaaaaaay DD! Great idea!) sounds like the perfect plan! I'm so glad that you validated your daughter's idea by following up on it, and are now both going to the same place... . she must feel pretty proud of herself about this, no?  |iiii

You did the best thing a Mom could've done, and now the two of you are on a new road to recovery... . I'm just so happy for both of you! The right T and the right therapy makes such a difference... .

   Rapt Reader

Dear Lovejaz

I know just how you feel,  I have no contact with mine and I wonder if it is better not to know.  I tend to think it probably is better not to know.  I'm not even exactly sure that is what mine has,  but I can't imagine it being anything else.  He has so many symptoms,  and what else could it be.  As I read all of these posts,  I know in my heart this has to be it.

Yes,  I also know that 90% of his is as well,  brought himself,  maybe even more,  he should seem to have such a good life,  but he is so miserable,  and I can't do a thing to help him.

My heart breaks for him,  seeing him destroy himself,  and everything that should be good in his life.   

I too bring my son to the foot of the cross everyday,  and it seems pick him back up to bring him home.  Some days are good and am able to leave him there,  but lately not so much.  I think it's because he just had a BD,  and of course that makes us think of them. 

But you are probably better off not knowing,  if you can't do anything to help him.

Lets just keep putting them there at the cross,  and knowing one day our prayers will be answered.

angeldust

|iiii Wow, it sounds like this T gets you, can validate your experience, AND as a result you have already made some progress with her, realizing that your need to control is a symptom of past trauma. You can now embark on a compassionate journey to heal (rather than beat yourself up over your shortcomings at the hands of the old T). Does that feel good? I can sense you relaxing a bit... .

Dear Lovesjaz and angeldust1... .    

What a struggle it is sometimes; worrying when we know what is going on and worrying when we don't know. As moms, we just want to know our kids are safe... .

Sending you   

I am so pleased for you Griz. I hope you find the 'self discovery' journey with this T rewarding and I hope it brings the rewards you deserve. I'm feeling happy for you, a good T makes a real difference! Might be a good opportunity to discuss situations to and from T's with dd... .

Vivek      

Good to hear griz... . so happy you have found a T you can talk to without feeling judged... . keep us posted.  

Thank you all for giving me the strength to move on and find another T.  There are so many things about myself that I want to work on.  Over the past few weeks I have been experiencing a lot of sadness and flashbacks, not understanding what they were and actually starting to think I might really be losing my mind.  I need some time to really think and feel okay to let out my feelings and begin the journey of dealing with them.

Thank you all so much for the courage you give me every day.  The resolve to move forward and the hugs when I need them.

Griz

Hi GRIZ

I haven't been here for a long while and I'm sad to see you're troubled by these challenges your girls are facing. You know, at the height of my daughter's illness I couldn't separate myself either. I think that it's ok though. It's so hard to see your child suffer. You ARE connected to them! It's foolish to think you can separate your feelings from theirs when they are so unhappy or troubled. I think it's ok to feel overcome by it sometimes, I really do. I spent so much energy trying to get out from under my feelings that I'd forgotten that its really normal to feel this way when things are crummy! Our children are our lives. When they suffer we suffer too. As long as the feelings don't totally debilitate you. Being a mom means feeling pain sometimes.

I hope I'm not being negative. I'm just saying it helps me to take a moment sometimes to realize that it's ok to feel this way.

I wish you peace, as always

AV

almostvegan

I think you make a very important point... . very helpful and insightful.  

AV:  so glad to see your post.  Thank you, you are not being negative at all.  It is the truth that it is okay to feel the way we do sometimes.  Isn't that what they teach in DBT also.  To sit with your feelings. 

I hope things are going well with you.

Griz

almostvegan,

Wise words, so wise. 

Feel the feelings.

Peace to you.

Reality