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My ex gf who I assume to have BPD traits ended our relationship and kicked me out at the begining of December. It's been incredibly tough for me... .  Christmas came and went... .  it was the worst day of my life. I really don't know how I made it through. Shortly after Christmas I had realized I had left my Christmas tree (in the box) stored in her crawl space. Now this was my moms Christmas tree which I lost  to cancer when I was 16 (29 now). Christmas is so specially for me in the first place and this tree obviously has a tone of sentimental value. I texted her on the 28th of December saying "I've just realized I've left my moms Christmas tree in your crawl space. When you put your Christmas stuff away would you mind pulling it out and putting it outside one day and I'll swing by and pick it up?" She replied with " I'll drop it off at the front of your apt building when we take all our stuff down". I said ok just let me know when you do. A couple weeks passed, New Years came and went a d I didn't hear anything. After the first weekend of January I sent her another text and simply said "are you going to return my tree?" She said " yes this weekend". I replied with "would you mind just pulling it out tonight sometime and putting it outside or even on the road by your car and I'll swing by and pick it up? I just wanna get this over with and move on" she said " sorry I don't have time till the weekend and a tree shouldn't prevent you from moving on". It would take all of 3-4 minutes for her to grab it and put it outside for me. However I politely replied with " ok just please message me when you drop it off so I can pull it in". That weekend came and went and big surprise she didn't drop it off. Not did she this past weekend. I'm blown away. Keeping my deceased mothers Christmas tree knowing damn well how much it means to me? I mean it doesn't get any lower than that and I can't for the life of me make any sense of her motive at all. I haven't contacted her again about it and I won't. I guess i will have to apologize to my mother in my own way. I can't believe how someone who was so amazing could turn so evil. I guess this is BPD? If you've made it this far please chime in. I have been having a really hard time. I'm actively seeking a therapist and a couple of weeks ago started taking some medication in an attempt to help me climb out of this deep, deep hope I'm in.

On another note. When she initially ended it with me I desperately tried to change her mind as I was so confused. During that time she said several times to stop contacting her. If I didn't she would consider it harassment. Now, she has a feature on her phone that blocks numbers from contacting her via text or call. If she really wanted me to never contact her again why wouldn't she just block my number? I mean obviously she hasn't as I was able to get through to her via text to ask about my Christmas tree. I just don't get it... .  

Hi Dave,

Welcome to the world of BPD!  There is no understanding the disorder nor the behaviors of those who have it.  The more I have learned, the more I learn how much I don't know!  Here are a few things to give some context.  First, pwBPD have no empathy for others.  None.  My had not one iota of empathy for anything I was going through, even after I told her how empty I felt about our r/s.  What this likely means in your case, IMHO, is that she doesn't realize how important the tree is to you nor how you feel about it.  Second, my uBPDexgf was incredibly selfish.  Our whole relationship for 4.5 years was always and only about her.  So, it doesn't surprise me a bit to see that she hasn't followed through on her commitment.  My ex was and is a pathological liar.  She would tell anyone anything as long as it made her look better.  It was really incredible to watch her!  As a matter of fact, she told me that any commitment she made meant that she might do it.  I told her that it was a real reflection of her character, but it fell on deaf ears.

My recommendation is to wait another month or so, and then ask her politely if there would be some way you could come over to get the tree, as it has a lot of sentimental value to you.  Hopefully enough time will have elapsed that she will follow through.

I'm sure you're going through a tough time, and I can relate to how painful Christmas was.  This was my first Christmas without her, and it was miserable.

Take care,

HT

I think i would want that tree back and after exausting all kind measure to get it back if she wont give it to you, get an officer to escort you to her house to get it. And if u saved the texts where she admits its yours thats good, in case she tries to claim its hers.

Hi Dave. It really sucks to hear what you're going through!

Whether your ex is or is not a pwBPD she is clearly trying to stay in control of the situation. She seems to be messing you about just to piss you off! PwBPD thrive on control so her knowing how much the tree means to you will make her act in seemingly heartless ways. Please remember you are probably dealing with someone that may have the body of an adult but also has the emotional maturity of a 3 year old girl. What they say and do can really baffle us nons !

When my exuBPDgf painted me black and left me for dead, she made me feel like i was the most horrible man on the planet! The worst bf she'd ever had! But since our break-up i've noticed shes still got pics of me and her on her facebook photos (and 2 other ex bfs too), and shes still got my phone number saved to her mobile! We've been split for 9 months n she now has a new bf, so why doesnt she delete my number and various pics on fb? It seems to be a common habit with pwBPD to hold on to something that represents an ex that they were close with. Almost like a souvenior!

Take care of yourself and dont forget there are many members on this board that have been in the same boat as you so keep posting and reading!

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for the replys. She obviously knows how much the tree means to me. It has to be the lowest thing she's ever done. I have considered going to the cops but don't want to make a bad situation worse. Keep in mind this isn't a young girl. She's 37 years old with 2 daughters ( from different dads and an abortion from a 3rd). This is someone who convinced me to move in after dating for 2 months (I have to take responsibility for that poor choice too but I was a absolutely completely swept up by this woman. I truly felt I had met my "soulmate" and was the happiest man alive) only to kick me out 24 days later over a minor argument over finances. This was after I sold, gave away or threw out everything I has accepts TV, books and book shelf some home decor and of course my clothes. I was forced to take a hotel for a week at the end of November till I could find a place. I left with absolutely nothing and she didn't care or show any empathy one single bit. I was, and still am completely shocked. How could someone who professed SO much love and care for me turn so quickly into someone I didn't even know? Never in my life have I been treated and cared for so nicely by anyone... .  and then bam... .  she pulls the plug. To give you an idea of how drastic this change was. On Saturday the 24th of November I sent her a text from work telling her how excited I was for Christmas and how it was finally sinking in that I would for the first time in a very long time not be spending Christmas alone and be spending it with a loving family. It was going to mean the world to me. Her reply and I quote was, " Dave, not only are you spending this Christmas with a loving family, you've become a part of this loving family. My girls love my boyfriend so much they want you as their father. And I've found... .  finally... .  the one and only for me. Nothing will ever be the same as life as you knew it. We are a unit and together forever we'll enjoy every part of this life. This Christmas is so special for us too. To finaly find our guy and have him for our first Christmas together!". Like I said that was Saturday the 24th. That following Monday I was in the hotel... .  

It's been devastating and I honestly don't know how I've made it this far. We honest never even really "fought". Sure we had disagreements but never anything to dictate such actions. I'm still taking it hour by hour.i

Dave44... .  I'm really glad you've decided to reach out to this community... .  If you stick with us I guarantee you will find a very friendly bunch of understanding people... .  folks who have walked in your shoes and experienced near identical situations to yours... .  

The way you were rejected sounds pretty brutal... .  unfortunately the norm for us here at bpdfamily.com 

If you are taking things hour to hour then that is a good strategy that is working right now... .  |iiii

Remember, there are people here online almost 24/7 due to differing timezones... .  this is a global community  :)

Whats your immediate support network like?... .  do you have friends and family who are there for you?... .  

That sounds really cruel. Why did she break things off? About her not blocking you, thats interesting. Ive heard that from others. Mine didnt block me either. I think they get some kind of enjoyment from our pain and like to have us contact them for their ego. Kind of narcissistic. Im really sorry, most of us here have been where you are. It gets better, i suggest a book for you. The journey from abandonment to healing. There is a review of it on this site.

Welcome to the board and welcome to BPD.  Your story is *exactly* the same as mine, the same as the next person, etc... .  

These BPD significant others all behave that exact same way.

They literally torture you over things that mean a lot to you when they have you painted black.  Mine did the same things.  We were married 10 years, together for 12, until December 14th. 

Mine also went from "I love you, want to go on a walk with you, etc... .  " to "we are getting a divorce in less than 24 hours."  It is *very* hard to comprehend this change.  But... .  the person you once knew is gone.  They change completely when this happens and they are very, very broken people.  She will continue to torture you over that tree. 

The last communication I got from mine was, "Our divorce papers FINALLY came in.  It's OFFICIAL!  :)"  Nice, huh?  Rub a little salt in the wound.  That's what they do.  Prior to that, she lied to me and said we had a future if I would give her a divorce and some money.  I was in the "trying to keep her stage" and did both.  She also drained our joint checking account out.  Evil is hardly a strong enough word.

But get used to this... .  or get away from her.  You might as well part with the tree, despite the sentimental value.  Your mother is alive in your mind.  The tree is a material object, which, although it reminds you of your mother, is not the memory of your mother.  The memory of your mother is inside you. 

Best of luck.  Read through all these posts... .  you will be shocked how many people have the same story you have.  You will find things you thought were unique to your own girlfriend, but that all BPDs share.  It's truly incredible to read this stuff.

During the 1st year of my 18 year marriage to my BPDx, we travelled to Memphis and saw Levon Helm of The Band play in a little club on Beale St. I was a huge fan of his. The club had a person walking around with a Polaroid camera taking pictures. He took one of me, my ex, and Levon. It turned out great and Levon autographed it. I couldn't wait to get home and put it on the fireplace mantle. At a stop for gas on the way home, I looked for it and couldn't find it. My ex said "whoops" I think I put it in that bag of clothes I bought at the mall, and I must have accidentally thrown it away when I was packing my bags for the drive home.   I tried to hide my devastation and said that's ok honey don't worry about it. She ended up turning things around on me, and by the time we arrived home I was an a$$hole for not being more understanding about her losing the picture.

A few years later we are in Jamaica with the kids. I'd bought a cool digital camera for the trip. We had obtained some priceless photos of the kids. I mean just priceless, once in a lifetime beautiful photo's. Well you can guess what happened next. Yes, she loses the camera. We frantically try to retrace her steps, etc... .  and her final story was that she took it into the ladies room and she must've sat it on the counter or something but by the time we got back there someone must have stolen it.

Those are just a couple of stories. I could go on and on. Each one seems innocent enough at first blush. I mean accidents happen, right? But over time, you get to a point that you can almost predict the next disaster (BPD's are very predictable actually), and then the disaster happens. You think how could someone be so cruel? It got to the point that I realized she would sabotage anything that she knew brought me happiness.

So I feel your pain Dave44. Good news is that life gets a whole lot better once you get out. Ive been divorced for 2 years now and am doing much better. You will get to a better place too. Hang in there.

There is another angle here to consider.  It could be that at this point in time, she is too "caught up" in whatever else she has going on right now and it is out of sight/out of mind & not a priority for her.  She may not have a problem returning the tree.  It may just have to be when she isn't engrossed in something else.

All the comments others made about keeping it for a future connection or control are very common though.  Just saying - could be this also.

On another note:  I also think you should get an officer to escort you over there if it comes to that.  (I would give it a little longer and try to contact her again before doing this.)  This woman was only in your life for a fleeting moment.  You don't want to regret not having the tree because of her.

I had a BPD friend (one of my best friends) do this to me after I dumped her over a year ago (she continually disrespected me and I had had enough). I left my cell phone charger at her apartment. She lives 1.5 hours away, so I told her to please send it in the mail. She kept putting it off, sending me emails about why she didn't have a chance to that week, etc. I was thinking to myself "It's not that hard to stick it in an envelope and drop it in the mail." I thought it was quite odd that she was making it seem so big a deal. I asked for it a couple more times via email. She kept replying that she would do it soon, and also was trying to make conversation. I told her I can't be friends with her at the moment and to just forget it. We haven't had contact since.

I thought it was odd, but had a feeling she was "holding it hostage" to use it to communicate with me. I believe your exgf is doing the same thing. If we remember their main motivation for almost everything is to avoid abandonment. So when they feel that we are going to COMPLETELY abandon them (even if it's them who ended things), I think they freak out and try to retain that connection somehow. I don't think they do this stuff out of malice, honestly. They are operating in survival mode 100% of the time. So we have to view their actions through this perspective. Once you do that, you will see that she is doing it to prevent you from being completely out of her life (especially as you have implied that that was the only thing holding you back from completely moving on). She probably wants it as an excuse for you guys to be in touch. Even if you are painted black, she may want to contact you again about it if she changes her mind.

I'm afraid she won't give it back on her own. You may have to get others involved or get authorities involved. Or maybe you can play some psychological games. Tell her that you don't want to cut her out of your life. You will still be available if she ever needs to contact you, but to please return the tree in the meantime. Then after she returns the tree (assuming she does), you can decide if you want to really be available to her or not. If not, then you can block her at this point. Kind of mean, but it may work. Good luck!

Dave, your ex is very accustomed to chaos, drama, splitting and dissociating to cope. Her coping skills are more than poor. You could spend a lot of time trying to figure out why she does the things she does.

Do you have any kids in your life around the age of 3? Observe them carefully and how they interact with other children and adults especially when they don't get what they want --- this is what you are dealing with.

I am sorry about your Xmas tree - I can only imagine how this must hurt - unfortunately my friend you may or may not get your tree back. Is a 3 year old likely to give you back a toy she really wants? She doesn't get sentiment, she has zero empathy for herself or you for that matter!

What is there to get you may ask! Not a great deal - she lives a life full of self loathing - you may or may not signify her primary care giver, her past abuser! Move away and don't look back.

Hugs to you

I can relate to the brutal way it ended Dave - on the saturday shes telling you you're gonna be this one big happy family for eternity... .  and then by monday you're single n staying in a hotel!

Most on this board have experienced this with their pwBPD! For me it was the most devastating time of my life! The hurt, the confusion, the shock-factor. To be abruptly cut out of someones life when you are so deeply in love with them is something NO-ONE should ever have to go through! It took me 6 months NC to snap out of the bubble of heart-break she left me inside of!

But why do they do it? What triggers them into abandoning the people they claimed to 'adore' only the day before? In my experience everytime me n my ex sat down n spoke about how much with were in love & how we were gonna be together forever or we'd been away for a romantic weekend, her birthday, valentine etc. These periods in the r/s were ALWAYS followed up with her RAGING at me over the most ridiculous of issues! I was a fully paid member of confused dot com  lol

They cannot handle the intimacy & closeness that a healthy love story requires. It simply freaks them out! They are plagued by an inner turmoil that is triggered when they become vulnerable or 'too-close' to their significant others. It is therefore easier for them to run away as appose to staying and facing their demons!

We cannot win. The disorder always wins.

Eerie similarities!  Mine did the same thing with a log book from my college sailboat.  I'd have all my friends out on my small, $2000 boat in college.  4 years of great memories.  Everyone commented on their time on the boat, wrote little poems and stories, left a little piece of their personality in that book.  It was up in the cockpit of a new boat one day and she "loses" it overboard. 

Over the years, she systematically eliminated all of my friends and half of my family as well. 

Hi Dave... .  welcome to the boards!

As others have said, welcome to the world of BPD. And, as others have also pointed out, this is very common among those with BPD. They have a hard time of letting go as it strikes to the root of their abandoment fears. Even if they say that they "hate you" and you have been painted black, I still believe they don't want to entirely let you go and somewhere in their mind you are still there, just on the backburner.

While we were together, my ex still wore a ring that she received from a prior relationship. Supposedly, she was supposed to get married to this guy. I asked her why she wore the ring and she told me "I just really like the ring. But it means nothing to me." I used to take her word for it (even though deep down it kind of bothered me) and now, with time and NC, I see it totally differently. I think she was still trying to stay connected to this guy even though outwardly, he was painted as black as they come. With me, when we broke up, she woudln't come to get her stuff and wouldn't give my key back to my place. I had to take her stuff and drop it off on her doorstep and have my locks changed. The last time we spoke (after I had dropped her stuff off), I asked her why she hadn't come to get her stuff. She tearfully said, "I just don't want to let you go."

My honest advice, as hard as is may be, is to let the tree go and just stay away from her. Move toward healing by going NC. One of the biggest reasons I wanted my ex's stuff out of my place was because I felt like she still had power over me. I still had to come home every day and see her stuff there even though we wern't together. If you can, let the tree go and refuse to give her power. You always have your mom in your heart and that is something she can never take away.

And by the way, it is absoultely awful she is doing this. It's a perfect and cruel example of the selfish behavor that comes with BPD.

Hey Dave44,

You've gotten some good advice on here. I read your story and it is very painful to be abandoned and discarded in this way. As for the tree; try surrendering. If you keep asking about the tree she will continue to use it as a dangling "carrot" to keep you attached to her in her own sick mind. My ex dumped me over a silly argument to set up his new replacement. The entire time there were personal belongings of mine that "disappeared". Turns out the ex took things that he knew I'd want back to keep the emotional strings of the relationship going. It's all very sick, desperate, and twisted push/pull behavior on their part.

So what can you do now? Read about BPD but focus on you. The more you read about this disorder the more you'll understand that your ex was never experiencing the relationship the same as you:

Ten Beliefs That Can Get You Stuck - Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder (https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf)

It's devastatingly crushing to find out that we've been in a relationship with someone who is mentally ill. They seem so normal on the outside only to find out that they're emotional car wrecks. They are very toxic, broken and empty on the inside. Her behavior isn't about you.

Spell

Than you to everyone who has taken the time to respond. It's so nice to know I'm not alone on this journey and that other people have experienced very similar circumstances.

For a while I began to wonder if she even had BPD. I started to wonder if things were possibly my fault? After all she doesn't display the extreme rage I so often hear about. I only really ever saw that twice - one of the times when I questioned her on her 3 unplanned pregnancies with 3 different men. Mind you we were only together for 4 (insanely intense) months so maybe there wasn't enough time for it to come out? Nor did she ever pull any of the B.S games I hear after intimate moments or activities. Matter of fact she loved all that fairy tale talk and being close sort of stuff. There was never any "pulling away" after those moments or talks. It seemed to be all she ever did talk about really.  If anything the way she conducted herself was the compete opposite of the"rage" I read about. Whenever there was any disagreement, difference of opinion on a topic or any time reality crept its way into the relationship resulting in the need for communication she would have and extremely difficult time seeing anything from my point of view. If it was a disagreement she would often just completely shut down. It would be like trying to talk to a brick wall quite often completely disconnecting and giving me the silent treatment for a day or so. If I ever  became emotional she would  be cold as ICE... .  almost as if the lights were on but no one was home. In the whole time we were together I never once saw her cry... .  ever. I always chalked this behaviour up to her being an incredibly strong woman... .  knowing what I know now, it was probably BPD right?

For the people that commented saying keeping things is common for them to use as a tool to re-engage contact. I have a very hard time with that idea. This woman has made it SO clear that she wants nothing to do with me what so ever. I went NC at the beginning of December but when Christmas Eve came I was in a very weak spot and texted her hoping with it being the day before Christmas she might be in a better frame of mind... .  boy  was I wrong.  She replied with things like, "guess it wasn't what I thought it was", "must not have been true love. Sorry, hope you move on", "never contact me again. I want nothing to do with you. Now move on!", " stop contacting me, if you don't I will consider it harassment". All on Christmas Eve knowing I was completely alone in my apt with the few possessions I hadn't gotten rid off when I moved in with her. I still struggle with the memories of that. Like I said, I can not begin to fathom how someone who was so incredibly loving so much so to the point of repeatedly talking about marriage up until 2 days before I left could become so down right evil with absolutely no remorse what so ever? So you can see how I hardly doubt she's keeping the tree in order to be able to contact me in the future. She's cut me out of her life in every way shape and form... .  blocked me on facebook etc etc. I'll never hear from her again, I was tossed away as if I never even existed in her and her kids lives to begin with.

I miss the kids terribly (5&8). I really connected with them and took them in as my own. I feel very sorry for them. I often wonder what they must think? One day they go to school and I'm there, they come home and I'm gone never to be seen again. I wish I could have at least said goodbye. I'm sure they've been through this before though. Probably explained why 2 weeks into dating their mom the oldest daughter was telling her friends at school she was going to have a new dad... .  yikes. Looking back now there was so many red flags. Particularly the fact she told me in the past 9 years she'd never had a relationship last longer than 3 months. Of course it was always that the guys were "losers". I suppose I'm now one of those "losers" too.

I'm still struggling daily with trying to come to terms with how someone could change from one extreme to another so quickly. Even the best relationships take work and communication. From the minute I left she has refused to see me or even talk to me on the phone. She only ever spoke via text. Matter of fact, she ended it with me via a text! All to the guy she's "never felt like his before" too. I sure hope I can put her behind me one day. It seems like this will haunt me for the rest of my life. She was and still is the most attractive women I've ever seen. Once again thanks to everybody for taking the time to post. Please do continue as its very reassuring to hear all be great insight. This is a great site.

Pretty similar to my experience wrt to the belongings she left at my house. She replied a week later with an impersonal thank you text.  Since I'm trying to minimize contact, I'm not planning on asking her to return her copy of the key to my house.

Hi Dave44 and welcome to our little spot on the internet.  Everyone here helped pull me through my BPD experience so you've really come to the right place.

Yes, from my reading and personal experience it's very common for an exBPD to not return property.  It's especially a shame that she kept something with that much sentimental value to you.  I lost my father at a young age and still treasure his personal items in my possession.

I know that in my experiences from breaking up with non borderline women the ritual of returning property is not very pleasant.  I think that given the nature of a BPD's inner turmoils and as an earlier poster iterated as being child like the stresses associated with returning things really triggers them badly.  They are also so selfish and bizarre that just having her knowing of the value of the tree to you may drive her to keep it.

I've recovered from my experience but not getting my property back still grinds me a little, and it had no sentimental value to me just the principle.  I recently chucked the few trinkets I had of my exBPDgf's into the garbage.  I feel so much cleaner now after doing it. I made numerous attempts to return her property too all of which she refused or just would start raging at me so I just gave up on it.

Unfortunately, what you are experiencing is fairly common behavior from borderlines.

Just to throw my little bit in... .  

My ex admitted one time (after a couple recycles) that she keeps things of mine to have a reason to meet with me.  One time it was a pair of jeans that I used for working on house projects -- cheap jeans with paints, stains, holes, etc.  I didn't care about the jeans at all, but she brought them to me, acted very loving, held my hand as we went for a walk, seemed very present and interested in me.  I was drawn in again.  Then her (ex)bf called (she alternated between relationships with us 2 or 3 times) and she abruptly left.

This last time I asked for my things back and she said she would leave them outside her workplace.  I asked for a specific time as I wasn't going to sit outside her work all day and wait for a box of stuff to appear, and she cut off contact.  That was about 5 months ago.  Either she left my stuff outside to be stolen or never bothered to gather it.

Also, as a previous poster mentioned he had to do, I had to take her stuff to her.  She would NOT pick it up despite saying over and over again she would.  A month or more went by with multiple reminders.  I was tempted to throw it away but figured that would just create more drama.  Plus, there were several books I had bought her about recovering from childhood trauma -- books I bought while in the relationship.  One of the books she read one paragraph of it and threw it across the room.  The Borderline Mother was in there.  Hopefully she'll read that one sometime.

Things of hers I have found since I have either thrown away or sold to try to recover all the money I lost in the relationship.

Hi dave  

My experience has been that even tho they totally cut you off - they can just as easily turn around after weeks or months of total silence - almost as tho none of that happened - often with a view to recycling the relationship. You are fortunate to be on here so you can at least prepare for that possibility.

I believe that they are driven to malice by a combination of fear, sadism and general total lack of care. I cant believe that none of it is calculated.

I'm terribly sorry to hear about your experience over Xmas. Like others have said, I can totally relate to the devastation and confusion in being discarded with no warning

Very interesting stuff to read. I find it so bizarre to read that in some cases it's as if they keep these personal items as souvenirs. I could maybe understand that (to some degree) if the items were trivial things. However, for something that OBVIOISLY means as much as this does I simply can not wrap my head around. I'm still undecided on what I should do. I have t messaged her for almost 3 weeks regarding it and I likely won't for a while. At least until the emotions aren't so raw.

I find it odd how like I previously mentioned that since I left she refused to ever see me or speak to me on the phone. Communication was strictly done through text. Does this relate back to dealing with the child they are? Their inability to communicate in a normal manor face to face or at the very least on the phone?

I'd also like to add that many many times during the relationship she would say, "if me and you don't work out I will never ever date again, I just couldn't". Reading all the other stories from people that have mentioned how incredibly fast their ex moved on I'm assuming I should probably excpect the same shouldn't I?

If you focus on you right now, and what led you into this r/s, and really disengage, and risk never seeing the tree again, you will have clarity enough later to raise the issue (if you so choose) in a way that won't have the same impact on either of you.

It's a tree - you are attaching value to it. She knows that, and survives on control. All this does is keep you tangled, and cheapens the spirit of the tree you're pining for (pun intended).

Let it go - as long as she doesn't destroy it (which is unlikely), in 6 months or a year out of this you will have a VERY different approach to her (and vice versa), and there may be options you don't or can't even see from where you are right now the eye of the hurricane.

It gets easier and clearer - we promise.

I had the same lines. Mine said our ashes would be mixed together when we died, that she would become a nun if I was gone, etc... .  

Asked her about these during the instant break off of 12 pretty happy years and got silence... .    No answer.

Hi Dave, I've been following your post and we can all empathize with your confusion and pain. Your person seems especially mean to be dumping you after professing such deep love for you and promises to be together as a family during Christmas time, then to dump you just weeks before Christmas trully seems cruel and calculated. Keeping the tree is just another layer on the cruelty. I understand the tree is more than just a tree. It is your mothers Christmas tree. Your mother who you lost to cancer at the age of 16. I'm not one to hold on to "things" but in this case with the tree holding such sentiment for you, if it was me, I would not want to give her that power to keep that tree. Its bad enough she had to dump you just before Christmas, knowing it is such a special time for you, but to keep that tree she thinks she has some kind of power over you by holding on to it. I wouldn't give her that power. If the tree holds that much sentimental value, you will probably hang onto resentment for years for her having that tree, basically stealing it from you. YOu will be reminded each Christmas of her horrible cut off and then also will be reminded that she has your mothers tree! I would get that back from her. She has no rights to it. And you would have every right to have your stuff back.

And I want to recommend again a book for you. You have experienced an abandonment, by her and with the loss of your Mother. These abandonment wounds only accumulate over years, making each successive one more difficult to overcome emotionally. The book helps you process this and heal. The book is called "ther journey from abandonment to healing" I wish I had this book in the begining of my confusion and pain, perhaps I would have been in alot less pain for alot less time.

Yep she knows the sentimental value of that tree to ya.  Same reason shes not making a point to give it back.  My BPDex made a point to burn my stuff that belonged to dead relatives and friends first.  No remorse.  She plain didnt care.  No boundaries, no line that wont be crossed, nothing respected or sacred. 

I hope your ex has a moment of sanity to return it, but itll prob never be at your suggestion.  There are likely more "reasons" shes keeping it like a trophy.  Many do this to combat object consistency and hold a sense of "power" just knowing you want it. 

Most of us here can relate to your experiences w/ a BPD  ex.  Were all in various stages of recovery so alot of wisdom here and in the reading on site. 

She's not going to give you that tree back.

Your story is SO similar to mine. My exgf dumped me after an argument and told me to leave her alone. I was so stressed i kept calling her to apologise and reconcile... and she ended up changing her number!

It was devastating.

I then had to try to get my stuff  back that I left at her place. Plus I had her stuff.

I sent a polite email asking if she could pls return my things and advise what I should do with her stuff. And nothing.

Weeks roll by and no response. I had to email her again and one morning I found 3 books of mine dumped on my sidewalk. No note. No word about what I should do with her stuff either!

It was so cold.

But she hadnt even returned the rest of my stuff! I was missing a ring my mum gave me, watch, clothes... .  

So I had to email her again. But still - silence.

1.5 months rolled by and nothing...

I then emailed her at work and she still ignored me!

Her flatmate called me to angrily tell me she "apparently doesn't have my stuff" and that she wants me OUT OF HER LIFE. And he told me my behaviour was apparently "unacceptable"!

wth! Asking for my stuff back was unacceptable?

I haven't bothered to try to find out what happened to it. After that crazy call and her silence it's just not worth it!

BUT in your case I think you should consider it theft if she deliberately withholds the tree.

You may want to consider talking to the police about your options

Oh i also suggest if you keep letting her know the heartfelt, honest meaning the tree has for you, the less likely you are to ever see it again.  I know its backassward, but its how they roll.

Her comment already abt how a tree shouldnt be holding you back from moving on  red-flag is telling on how little shes viewing your feelings.  

Sooner the better.  Let us know if you get it.

Yeah, try not to let her know how much the tree means to you. Hard to do when your trying to get it back. If you want to get it back, here's what I'd do. I'd talk to the police, explain your situation, find out your options. I've seen this in other domestic issue where the police simply escort you to get your stuff. Do not tell her your getting the police. Do not forwarn her. Send her a message about the tree again and word it so that she gives you the answer you want. That she has your tree. Save that text reply from her. Get the cop to take you to her house un announced at a time you know she is home and simply ask for the tree in the presence of the cop. If she's like my pwBPD, she will be mortified and will get the tree, give it back and make it out like she wasn't holding the tree and make some excuse for why she couldn't get it back to you. Probably will blame it on you! If she cares about her reputation, like you say she does. She's not going to put up a stink with the police department. Especially when you have proof it is yours and directly from her cell phone text message.

However, if your not up for this or if you find she has destroyed the tree. You will have to let it go. Let go of all the sentiment. Things can always be stolen and destroyed and if there is nothing you can do about it you have to let it go. Memories of your Mother she can never take.

Some really good points being made here... .  particularly there one about being reminded every Christmas about it. That I do fear. Going to the cops is an option I might have to explore at some point. However right now the thought of dealing with it or her at all makes me very anxious. Like mentioned in a previous post of mine I recently started taking some medication in an attempt to help me climb out of this hole. It should start taking effect in another couple of weeks. I'd like to work on myself a bit here fist and get back on my feet so to speak before I re address the situation. I feel as through she has this incredible pull/effect on my and I just can't stand it. I want to be able to confront her without it leaving me reeling emotionally.

Like I said before due to the lack of anger/rages put downs I  do often wonder if she does have some form of BPD? Maybe it is just me? I mean we never even fought. Sure we had disagreements but never had a confrontation were our voices were even raised. Also, other than claiming all her past boyfriends were "losers" she never really played the victim role either? However her cold completely disconnecting behaviours are really shocking. 

Looking back there really were so many red flags. I guess the first one should have been that she brought her 9 year old daughter on our first date. She asked to meet at a local elementary school playground where I brought her coffee. I guess I rationalized it as I work in a grocery store (where we met) where she was a customer. Sometimes she would have the kids with her so I had chatted with them a few times. It wasn't like I was a complete stranger. However... .  the first date? That can't be right can it? Other red flags were:

- 37 and openly admitting in the last 9 years never having a relationship last longer than 3 months.

- absolutely nothing to show for herself or owned.

- poor relationship if any at all with her family - always cut down her mother.

-  previously filled for bankruptcy for $72,000 in debt with nothing to show for it.

- never any career. Had several jobs over the years but most of her income was from child subsidy or child support.

- not one single friend.

- complete and utter lack of common sense.

- quite a number of lies which I've found out about post breakup.

- clearly a complete lack of empathy. I also noticed this with kids, particularly her daughters friends. Whenever they would come over for a play date they would give her a hug and she absolutely detested that. I always thought that was odd.

I read see on hear about how a lot of BPDex's have drained their SO's of money. She never ever asked for money and as a matter of fact if I payed more than my share of something or bought her something it almost made her uncomfortable. Again... .  questioning the whole BPD thing. However, when she ended it at the end of November at that point I had already finished my Christmas shopping for her. Everything was wrapped and sat hidden in the truck of my car. When she asked me to leave and ended it I told her that I had all her presents and would drop them off on her doorstep. I really went overboard as in a previous years Christmas was all about the kids and she had always put them first and never really gotten anything. I really wanted to make this Christmas special for her. After I had dropped them all off I thought for sure I would hear from her after she opened them all. In all honesty I was hoping she would open them, realize how much effort I put into them and have a change of heart. Weeks went by and I hadn't heard a thing. I thought well maybe she's waiting for Christmas to open them? 4 days before Christmas I came across some of the receipts I had from the gifts. Several of the items I got for her were gift cards to various location I new she really liked. I noticed on the receipts for these gift cards that you could check the balance online. When I went online to check them I saw that all the cards were used 2 days after I dropped the gifts off. That really, REALLY hurt. Not even so much as a simple "thank you" text. Heartless, completely heartless.

Anyways sorry for the rant. It's a day off work today and those I find are the hardest. Thank god for this site and the people on it, and thank you all for the support.

Dave44, you have asked a couple times about the non-rages, search "the quiet borderline." They act inward (which you saw with her shutting down), versus outward, which is the raging.

Here's a link on it from this site: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=149911.0;wap2

Gaslit is right. They don't all rage. Mine didn't, never. He can't express anger, its all turned inward. Instead of raging in confrontation, these types usually just withdraw and use silent treatment.

OMG! I can't believe, she had you buy them all gifts for Christmas and then dumped you. Dave, just from your descriptions here, she sounds like a narcissist to me. BPD and NPD's are similar and BPD's usually have pretty strong narcissistic traits but BPD's usually have an honest desire to connect with someone and don't intentionally use people like NPD's do. BPD's sometimes can have some empathy, especially when not dysregulated. NPD's have none. Zero. Those signs you mention, never having a relationship last for more than 3 months! and the others, yes those are big red flags! But, she treated you so well right? Its hard to resist being idealized. Especially if your lonely.

Hi,

Did she ask you to buy a lot of Christmas presents for her or did you choose to do so as a kind gesture that she was unaware of?

If she has asked you not to contact her and she was the one to end the relationship which you didn't want to end. Is there a chance that she feels that you are using the Christmas tree as a way of still keeping in contact with her?

This stuff about her "seeming" uncomfortable with you spending on her. This was probably her acting. They are very good at presenting themselves as something they are not, throwing you off gaurd to their real self. If she came across to you as a gold digger, you'd had dumped her right? They are good a covering up the parts they know will tip people off on their true intentions. And I see she apparently didn't know you were buying her gifts. I don't believe she didn't know, most people buy gifts for their significants in the months of Dec and before, don't they? Its common sense you would be spending time shopping the weeks before Christmas for your girlfriend and her children. Especially, one's who she claims wants you as their father. I think she's played this game before. And her children, they've probably seen this repeatative cycle of using people, sad.

Hi folks,

Just to clarify the Christmas presents. No, she did not in any way ask, hint or insist that I buy her gifts for Christmas. Obviously she knew I was and that I had been shopping. After all, it was Christmas and keep in mind we were living together so obviously we would be exchanging gifts. Like I mentioned before all previous Christmases were always about the kids as she put them first. As a result she never really received any gifts herself. I really wanted to make this Christmas special for her and went over board and spoiled her - I was so excited.  It just so happened that by the end of November when she ended it (after a very simple disagreement about finances) I had already finished my shopping for her. After she ended it and I told her I would drop all her gifts off on her doorstep she did say "please keep them I wouldn't feel right keeping anything". I wanted her to have them so I dropped them off anyways only to find out just before Christmas when I checked the gift cards balance online that she had burned through all of them 2 days after I dropped them off.

As far as the kids gifts went. I offered to pay for half of all of them. She insisted that I not and that she would take care of them as it "wasn't fair for me". I insisted that I pay for half as I thought it wasn't fair for me to "play dad" only when it was convenient for me. I was living there, I had taken on that role, they wanted me as a father and I genuinely wanted to contribute to their gifts. It really hurt that I never got a chance to see them open any of them. Not even to know how they reacted or if they liked them.

Throughout the relationship she never ever once asked me for money. I paid for my half of the rent, groceries and bills but never once did she ask to borrow money or use me for money. In all honesty I wish she had off. At least then I would have some closure. I could look back and say ok, she just used me for money and was a gold digger. Sure she got half her kids Christmas gifts payed for and some really nice gifts herself but that was it.

The urge to break NC today is incredibly hard. I don't know why, I've been doing so well lately but ever since I woke up this morning it's almost been unbearable. Just to try and see if she wants to actually TALK, to see if she's had a change of heart, see if she misses the "perfect family" we were. Then I get so mad at myself. Why would I want to try and make it work with someone who cut me out of her life SO incredibly coldly at such a special time of the year. With absolutely NO emotion what so ever. Not even so much as a text on Christmas to see how I was doing? I guess that says a lot about myself hey - I'm pathetic. To share a bond and connection that we had, to live with someone, to talk about marriage! And the for her to completely cut me out of her life as if I never existed? Wouldn't any normal person want to see how you were making out. Especially since I got rid of EVERYTHING I owned to move in with her?   What about all the times she would say "I've never felt this way before for someone", "it's like you were like my missing piece", " I've never felt soo complete as when I'm with you", "l could never go back to my old life before you"... .  the list goes on and on.  She treated me so incredibly well at the beginning though. Matter of fact for most of the relationship she did. There was odd glimpses here and there but for the most part she treated me like a prince, like nothing I had ever experienced before.

I can not wrap my head around why she is holding that tree. For someone who made it VERY clear that she didn't want anything to do with me even so much so as to tell me if I continued texting her trying to work things out she would consider it harassment... .  why on earth would she be keeping it. She can't even see it. It's stored in its box in the crawl space. It's gonna take everything I have not to contact her today. I can not put into words how badly I miss her and what we had.

I know how much you miss her. We've all been there. Its painful and you will do anything to stop that pain. It is a biochemical withdraw. Look up some stuff on love addiction and you'll see. But, please don't contact her. What you had with her wasn't real. What she's doing now is real. Any normal person would at the very least said thank you after taking your gifts. Even if you are broken up. Take it from me you will never get back the way it was. I've been down this road for almost 2 years now and I wanted back what I had and it has NEVER returned to the way it was. And all the literature on her says the same. If you want more of what your getting now. Heartbreak, then contact her. If you want to get well, stay away.

Dave, what are your reasons for maintaining NC?

Hi Dave - One of the most painful things that I had to get my head around was in relation to what was said. I heard - almost word for word - a lot of what you are describing - his feelings about me/us/the relationship/our future.

It tears me up that I meant everything I said. At the time maybe he did too. But I realise now that he said the same stuff to the gal before me, and the one before her & no doubt someone else now. This hurts far more than the idea of him being sexually intimate with someone else.

He once told me that after breaking up with someone they would often go to extreme lengths to try to bring him back into their lives - he said there "is nothing less attractive than someone saying they need you". Then "they" get angry & then they try to destroy his reputation.

With hindsight it feels like he was prepping me for the inevitable breakup - even very early on.

Stay strong. Like a drug - you can chase that feeling but it will never be like the first time

My non conspiracy theory, non-BPD take on this is:  

You didn't even realize until after christmas that the special tree was still with her?  If it were that special and important it be returned asap,  in my mind, you would have asked for it in time FOR christmas, not after christmas.  I'm sure you have good reasons for this, but she may not know or appreciate that. You now have 12 months before you would need the tree for christmas; in my mind, your timing in asking wouldn't suggest a sense of urgency.  If after christmas you all of a sudden felt the need immiediately to have a christmas tree, and I already told you I wanted nc with you and and was feeling harassed... .  I'd be thinking this sudden need for your christmas tree AFTER christmas is a means to an end so that you have an excuse to contact me. She  may be projecting ill intent on your part, just as this thread is assuming ill intent on hers. Or as others have mentioned, it may simply not be her top priority, especially now that christmas is over. Just at face value, I'd have these wonderings.

As for the BPD possible interpretation; well, you aready have every theory under the sun regarding all the evil intent she might have behind this, keeping it to hurt you or keeping it for a reason to contact you later on... .  etc., etc., so enuf said on that.  The global statements that "THEY" have NO empathy, NONE, are not necessarily true statements, empathy can be compromised with BPD,  and it's on a scale.  My ex absolutely has empathy, but not when he's upset or feeling attacked or cornered.  Empathy can be compromised on a scale with nons, too. by the way.  Anyone feeling fearful or upset in not in touch with 'empathy'. There are patterns in this disorder, but there are no THEY.  People are people, everyone is different. Nons look for excuses (oh look, I found your sweater!) to break contact all the time, too, doesn't make them evil.

So, take a big, deep breath... .  it's going to be okay, one way or another, you will get through this, it will work out.

You are hurting after a bad and abrupt break-up; let some time go by and allow yourself to heal.

If you need the tree back and can't gain her cooperation, just call the sheriff and explain the situation, they can likely assist with an escort and mediate the exchange. It won't get anyone into trouble, it's not meant to be punitive or high-drama, no one is getting arressted or charged with anything,  it's just meant to be a neurtral and safe go between to make sure you get your stuff and she doesn't feel harassed and nothing goes haywire.  it's common after break ups, police often play this role,   it protects both parties and puts an end to the drama.

Also, if she is asking for NC, then for your own protection, abide by it. All the more reason to have a safe mediator, the sheriff etc., act as a go between if you do need something from her.

Hey Dave,

Again ... .  as everyone has said ... .  sorry you're having to go through this. I too am just a few months out and struggling.  I don't want to change to course of this thread but you said something very interesting in one of your posts.  You mentioned that you never saw her cry.  My exBPDbf also never cried. In fact we had conversations about it were he said he wished he could, and thought I would make him feel better.  In his case he was abandoned by his father at four and assaulted by a neighbor at 7.  I'm sure these things are a big part of his inability to cry, but I also wonder how many others pwBPD are unable to cry.  Just a thought ... .  

Simple... .  she doesn't want anything to do with me. When I broke and contacted her on Christmas Eve she said some really hurtful things like, "guess it wasn't true love", "hope you move on!" "I don't want anything to do with you!". I don't want to be NC at all. I want to talk about things like NORMAL people would do.


A little offended by this but I suppose I can see where you're coming from. I initially went in the hotel on the Monday. Thursday I found a apt to rent that was a available for that Saturday. She agreed to give me a 3 hour window on saturday were her and the kids would leave so I could come and get the few items I had there. During this time period I am a walking zombie. I felt like I was in a dream... .  I was not "present" or in the right mind frame to begin with. The tree was simply forgotten in the mad rush I was to get the heck out of there. I forgot a few other items too but nothing of real value or that I'm concerned the least bit about. Over the course of December I was an absolute wreck. Christmas was the last thing on my mind and I most CERTAINLY didn't decorate so there was no reason for me to even realize. It was as simple as that.

I read on here so many stories about how these BPD's put their partners through hell and back over the "X" amount of months/years of the relationship. I can't say that... .  and that's what adds to the confusion even more. She treated me great. There was never any of these push pull games. However I did start to see signs early on at her total disconnect and that did scare me. I often was walking on egg shells. It even got to the point that I would be nervous to go to work as I feared she might end it and with her ability to shut me out I would have no way of talking to her again. But when she ended it it was over, boom just like that. Not an ounce of empathy remorse or even the slightest bit of emotion. None of those crying phone calls saying she's changed etc etc. I was immediately cut out of her life as if I never even existed in the first place.

On a another interesting note. I had a name of a guy she dated last year. I've always wanted to speak with someone who had some experiance with her to see if they had a similar story. I tracked this fellow down on FB and sent him a private message asking him if he would be so kind to confidentially share his experiance with her. He obliged and this was his reply... .  and keep in mind be doesn't know me at all nor does he know anything about my story.


"Yup, you got the right guy I dated her. We hit it off amazingly well and then one day with no warning she said it was bad timing and it was instantly over. So basically she flipped on me without giving me a reason. We went out a few years before that briefly as well and a similar thing happened only that time she slept with her ex and got pregnant... Hence, her youngest daughter! Haha! I should have known better I guess? I feel for ya if you're having difficulties understanding her, personally I don't think it possible (not that I'm bitter!)

Good luck man, hope it goes better for you. I appreciate your confidentiality."

This was an eye opener and in a strange way... .  a bit of closure.

Dave,

     Wow. Man getting confirmation from her ex through FB was gutsy, but yes that should give you closure somewhat more.  My two cents... .  If you are never going back to her 100% then get the authorities involved and get your tree and get on with your life. Just know, once you do this you are black for life and you'll never talk to her again. That's probably a good thing, but we still want answers and closure which we will never get.

I can understand the shock after the way they suddenly break with us. I too was in emotional shock! There are blocks in that month that i can not remember. I couldnt remember a client site that i had traveled to and when i went to return to the site 3 months later, i couldnt remember a single detail about the job and my boss thought... .  what is wrong with u... .  u were just there a few months ago. I couldnt remember a thing. We suffer a sort of post traumatic stress syndrome after a break with BPD sometimes. I can totally understand you not thinking about your Christmas tree.

Hi Dave,

For whatever reason, she is shutting you out and BPD or not, she has asked you not to contact her and maybe it is best for you both that you respect that. It does seem that you are looking for a way to stay in touch with her, hence the Christmas tree issue.

I'm not saying that this isn't very difficult for you, you sound like a really loving caring guy and your understandably hurt by how you have been discarded seemingly so easily. You can't change her or her decision though.

Maybe trying to put the focus back on you and taking care of yourself could benefit you more than having so much focus on her. What things do you enjoy that you could do to try to put the focus back on you? You have had a big change in your life, having to move, not having her or the children but your new life can be a very happy one even without her in it. Not straight away but little steps towards enriching your own life may serve you better than trying so desperately to understand her reasons.

I know it's easier said than done but the only person that you can help is you and although letting go is very hard sometimes it is also for the best. Try to do something that is solely for you that you enjoy, however small. Take care of yourself 

I never saw my exuBPDgf cry either. The closest she got was randomly saying to me "please don't ever leave me" after we'd watched a film one night. She said it with complete fear in her face but then within 4 seconds she was back to her normal mask-on guard-up self. It was very strange but that was the one & only time i saw the terrified girl she really is!

Thanks to everyone that took the time to reply. Guess there's not much more to discuss. This is the situation and there's not much that's going to change it. I know everyone fears a recycle but I can honestly say I'd give anything for one. A phone call... .  even a simple text. She never put me through the mess that everyone else has been put through. For the most part it was everything I had EVER wanted right up till the end. I wish there had been this pull push crap threw out the relationship. At least then I could look back and think thank god I'm out of that.  To be dumped and left out in the cold as if I were trash is something that I'll clearly never understand for the rest of my life. How she can just continue on with her life is beyond me.

I'd also like to make a comment to everywhere that states these people hate themselves, feel empty, feel alone, have self loath etc etc... .  BS! In order to feel that they would have to have empathy, a soul, a heart or even feelings for that matter. And if she had any of those this wouldn't have happened in the first place... .  at the VERY LEAST not in the manor it did. I can guarantee you this woman feels just fine with herself. She could absolutely care less.   

Last but not least I'd like to make one other bold statement. I wish I was BPD! They don't feel anything and not feeling anything would sure be a HELL of a lot better than feeling what I'm feeling day in day out. This woman will haunt me for the rest of my time here on earth.

My friend, anger is an emotion that surfaces a lot. Its often the emotion that also surfaces first. Anger is an emotion that masks other emotions - its our safe haven emotion - the one that we can rely on. If we are angry we don't have to show cause.

Dave, I am sorry you are angry - did deep - there is something more pertinent underneath all that and it has nothing to do with your ex. Harsh reality and one we all need to face if we are to move forward.

Process your anger somehow!

I dunno clearmind - mine dumped me after telling me that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me if "only we could have one weekend without a fight". He then decided that we needed to go to the local for a drink - on the way he had his hip flask of scotch (we were walking) knowing that, for me, him drinking spirits was extremely anxiety inducing - then he proceeded to ignore me all night whilst being all touchy feely with a friend of his daughters (a stripper btw) who was happy to reciprocate - then at the end of all that tell me that he couldn't be with me any more because he had "more important things to worry about" (being his new job that I had helped him negotiate!)

I see you are from aust (happy Australia day!) so the expression "maintain the rage" will mean something to you too. When he comes back all "I still love you, we are meant for each other blah blah" anger is my only refuge!

WD, yes unfortunately our ex's are not well! Is this cause for blame? I am 1.5 years out and done a lot of therapy. I missed the red flags, and noticed a few but chose to ignore them. There comes a time where we need to stop the BPD bashing and take on some responsibility.

No one held a gun to our heads - we chose this - for whatever reason! We all need to find that reason and the answer does not lie with your ex.

WD, like everyone we get to choose our future - we can do one of two things:

1. Hang onto the hurt and "poor me" or victim attitude

2. Let go with grace - and learn from it so you choose healthy partners in the future.

YOu cannot have both - to let go with grace we also need to let go of the hurt - and to let go of the hurt we also need to stop feeling guilty for what happened.

Much of the reason why we get on here at bpdfamily.com and bash our ex's is because we carry a lot of fear and guilt! We feel like failures because we couldn't help our mentally ill partners!

We sometimes come here for validation that we are not the crazy ones! Validation is OK to a point - then comes the hard work - needed to point the finger at yourself for a while.

How come its so hard to let go with grace my friend? And its not about your ex! Food for thought... .  

And yes Happy Australia Day! :)

Dave, i know. This is the part so difficult for me. HOW does a human cut a loved one off so cruelly? Coldly and completely. But they do. Its their brain wiring. Its mind boggling and sad they leave so much hurt behind. Your angry sad. Externalize that all you want. Its good for you. Its necessary part of healing! Your only a few weeks out correct? Moving on, lifting, doesnt happen in just a few weeks for most of us. Its just fine for you to be angry, resentful and to want your mothers Christmas tree back! To tell you not to be angry to let go of your mothers Christmaz tree already IS Invalidating YOUR feelings. Feel your feelings. Its necezsary.

Im blown away at some of the invalidation going on here. Dave said hes angry, sad hurt, want his tree back. Hes sad hes lost his mothers Christmas tree. His mothers tree who died of cancer when he was 16.

In response hes told. I dont think u really care about that tree, u didnt even remember it till after Christmas.

Hes told, how come you cant let go? My friend.

Even though he is in the very early stages of his loss.

Infuriating!. And invalidating that he should not  be feeling the way he is and instead should do feel what other think he should be.

I would rather say the lack of brain wires  lol

"Im blown away at some of the invalidation going on here. Dave said hes angry, sad hurt, want his tree back. Hes sad hes lost his mothers Christmas tree. His mothers tree who died of cancer when he was 16.  In response hes told. I dont think u really care about that tree, u didnt even remember it till after Christmas. Hes told, how come you cant let go? My friend. Even though he is in the very early stages of his loss. Infuriating!. And invalidating that he should not  be feeling the way he is and instead should do feel what other think he should be."

I TOTALLY AGREE.  If a member of this community is frustrated with the pain that some of us are feeling, I would gently suggest that he or she take a break from this board.  We come here to get AWAY from the type of "support" you are offering.  We need someone who understands and is gentle.  Not offering tough love.

Cookie 

Dave has received much validation for his feelings. We all understand how painful these experiences can be.

He also received many many post suggesting all the reasons why he is not getting the tree back; all of them painful, all of them suggesting the worst of intentions on the part of his ex.

I suggested a couple of options that didn't necessarily focus on the worst case scenario or most brutal of intentions; that since Christmas had passed perhaps his ex didn't feel a sense of urgency about the tree, or that since Christmas had passed it wasn't a priority for her.

I don't know why she hasn't given the tree back.neither does anyone else posting. We are

all speculating at this point.

Why would offering as less painful speculation be viewed as validating?  Why are only the most painful of scenarios, offering the most pathological and cruel intentions on the part of a former loved one seen as invalidating? That's interesting.

I can be totally understanding of a persons pain, without adding to the drama in suggesting the worst of the worst possible scenarios, no?

Would it not be comforting to at least consider a less dramatic explanation? AND empathize that a break up of this nature is truly painful... .  

Since the question was asked i will respond. What i see is invalidating is exactly what i posted was invalidating. Dave said he was sad and angry about the tree and wanted it back. In response he was told by several, its just a tree, you could not have cared all that much since you did not ask for the tree until after Christmas, let go of the tree. And he also stated he was offended!

And, he is urged to let go of his ex in the very early stages of his grief and then asked a question implying whats wrong with you, why cant u let go? Both these are invalidating of his feelings and his capability to let go. Who lets go in the first few weeks? Who doesnt cry and rant and rave and ask questions? To deny these stages is invalidating his current feelings!

What is this worst possible scenario you speak of. The fact that i said he was used? That she simply is keeping his tree and doesnt appear shes going to return willfully? Thats all commons sense reality. Its no fabrication. She used him. She wont return the tree. Facts.

If one doesnt understand or view the above comments as invalidating then perhaps that is the problem. Maybe all of us need to look at ourselves.

Dave, thanks for the PM message anytime. Please remember you are in withdraw its going to be rough going for a while, but youll get ther.

Correction; That was meant to say, why are only painful, persecution scenarios validating, and why are more mundane, less painful scenarios viewed as invalidating?

I never questioned the importance of the tree to Dave, I pointed out that his ex MAY not appreciate the importance because of the timing of the request, after Christmas, and after a request on her part for NC. These are two also reasonably possible explanations; we are both still speculating. You don't know, and neither do I.

SummerT321 - there are two things at play here:

1. Grief over the Xmas tree being his dear mom's - yes I would be upset/sad and angry too and I honestly feel for Dave

Then there is:

2. Dave holding onto the words of his ex! This is where reality kicks in! To see the reality of the disorder is very important in detaching. The nature of BPD will dictate how this tree issue will go down! And I can honestly say it wont be good! Many of us have lost items – we all talk from experience – heck I lost $18,000.

I am sorry about the tree and also wish to support Dave and see the reality of the situation. Hold onto the fantasy of him getting his tree back and I would not be honest and supportive – part of being a member here is to help members see the reality…through the grief.

We could be here all day justifying, explaining our intentions - written word can get misconstrued - Maybe now its time for Dave to respond given this is his thread!

LifegoesOn2 - I am not at all sure of your situation at all however you must have gone through times of heightened emotions over your exBPD - we all did - is it healthy - yes - do we need to inject some reality in - I believe so!

It's just the little things we cling to.  It's silly I know, but it's human.  We fixate on one or two things, we try to understand why they act so inhuman.  We focus on what we feel is important.  It's different for everyone.  We don't understand, we can't understand, our brains are not wired the same way theirs are.  We love, so much, we expected, so much.  Later on when we know more about their illness we try to understand, but we can't really.  We look at them not understanding us, and they really don't understand why we don't think the same way they do.

And my reality says that if Dave wanted to he could get an officer to esort him there and get the tree.

For the people that mentioned about asking after Christmas and it not being a priority:

I Texted her on the 28th of December saying I left the tree there. I asked her when she takes down her Christmas decorations (which would be put back in the crawl space where the tree is sitting) could you pull the tree out and leave it outside one day and I'll swing by and grab it when you go to work. She said I'll drop it off at the front entrance of your apt building. To pull it out as she was putting her decorations back is a no brainer, it would have took no time at all.

New Years came and went (when most people take their stuff down). I waited till that weekend and still nothing. The following Monday I sent her a text simply saying "are you going to return my tree?". She replied with "yes this weekend". I then asked, "would you mind just pulling it out right now and throwing it outside or even on the road by your car and I'll swing by and grab it? I just want to get this over with so I can move on." She replied with "sorry I don't have time and a tree shouldn't prevent you form moving on". I said "ok just please text me when you drop it off so i can bring it in". So for the people that are saying its not a priority or she's just got other stuff going on... .  Common, it would take all of 5 minutes at the MOST.

As for getting the police to escort me there to get it. Yes, that is an option. However to be honest with you the idea of that scares me. It scares me becuase when we were dating she told me how she accused the father of her youngest for doing some really horrible things. He was brought into the police dept and questioned several times. Of course I believed her and hated him for it but knowing what I know now... .  considering he was never convicted of any of it I often wonder if it was stuff she made up. I fear getting the police involved may open a can of worms that would not be pretty.

I don't know what I'm going to do. It was very simple for her to do, I gave her every option to return it. How hard would it have been to throw it out on the road? It would have taken her more effort to keep avoiding this then to have actually of done it. I suppose I will work on myself and heal a bit first. Yes I'm only a few weeks out and yes I'm hurting. Obviously I have my own issues that led me into this relationship and to have turned a blind eye to all the red flags -- I realize that. Maybe that's just what this woman came into my life for? To force me to address these issues so I CAN have a healthy, loving relationship. This is all stuff I'm aware of but to be so easily discarded when you put your everything into it was tough. Especilly just before Christmas and especially to have possibly lost my mothers tree. I'm hurting.

Yes Dave getting then police to help you get your tree IS a real option, however if you fear her making up some abuse story about you,I understand! Thats scary. Your in such a difficult position. You will introspect and learn about your issues when u reach that point. You will let go with grace, eventually. But theres nothing wrong with being hurt angry and confused right now. Its normal! And your right about what you said earlier, wish we could let go as swiftly and easily as they do, but its not normal human nature to let go of love so swiftly. When you feel your being pushed to rush through the stages, please check out the links on here about the stages of grief, healing and abandonment. So that you can remind yourself it takes time. It doesnt happen in 3 weeks.

 Dave

Firstly - forgive me - I haven't had the chance to read the whole of this thread - just bits and pieces - so please excuse me if I end up repeating what others have said or make points that aren't relevant!

But I have my own experience of something similar and have thought about this a bit so wanted to offer a perspective that might help.

I too had very strong feelings when a particular possession - both emotionally and financially valuable - was not returned to me after the sudden end of  my strange and painful r/s. It wasn't nearly as significant as your tree though - which is clearly a very important reminder of your mother - so I'm very sorry for how painful that must feel!

I was - in some ways - surprised that the loss of a mere 'object' could upset me so much. But then I started to think about why this was. For me it was because my r/s - like yours - went from 'I cannot be without you  - please move in with me - let's plan the next 20 years together' to ... .  nothing... .  overnight. That is very, very shocking. It's not something our hearts and minds can process without a great deal of time and effort. It's traumatic.

So I saw that the treatment of my possessions kind of summed up the overall situation. One day I was urged to move as much of my stuff into my ex's house as possible - and the presence of my things in his home was a source of delight to him - and the next moment - having suddenly dumped me - he couldn't really be bothered to find an important thing of mine and post it back to me.

So the treatment of the things symbolised the suddenness and weirdness and sheer incomprehensibility of the changeability of his emotions. My possessions were - like me - cherished above everything one minute - and worthless  the next.

And that's why it mattered to me so much that he couldn't be bothered to take care of them and return them to me - and still hasn't. It was a concrete representation of how suddenly valueless I had become in the eyes of someone who appeared to care for me greatly. And I did fight a bit to get my things back because I thought that by forcing their return I would make him show - at the very least - some respect for someone who he claimed - just days before - to hold at the very centre of his life and now couldn't be bothered with at all.

This may be why you feel particularly strongly about this at this time. And it is understandable that you should.

In the end I got a friend to write to try and retrieve my things - because I did want this stuff back and I knew that trying to remove the emotion from the situation - and make the whole thing more impersonal - could help. Sadly he still couldn't be bothered. But it might be worth it in your case to try this route.

In time the memory that my valued things meant nothing to my ex has served as a useful reminder to me that he's not a caring and thoughtful man. And that by losing him I have in fact lost nothing at all - except the likelihood of a lot more heartache.

I do hope you get your tree back. But I also think it would be wise at some point to understand that what the tree symbolises (both in terms of the love between yourself and your mother - and the shocking lack of care your ex has shown you) is more important than the tree itself - and that it's not worth expending vast amounts of emotional energy on attempting to retrieve it.

Wishing you well. WWT. 

WWT -

Beautiful post.  Thank you. |iiii

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