BPDFamily.com

People who’ve followed my threads know I’ve suspected H of drinking in secret — including drinking and driving. Today, I found his stash (or one — could be more). No hard stuff. Two disposable containers of wine hidden in a briefcase in a closet. I suspected he might have something hidden in that room so I looked.

The other day he went to our neighborhood pool. He came back seeming a little “off.” He put his stuff away upstairs and when I went upstairs for something, I surprised him coming out of a room we mostly use for gift wrap, important papers, stuff there’s no other place for. He rarely if ever has gone in there in the past. The books and dvds stored there are mine. When he called his mom that evening, he did it from that room with the door closed and came out emotionally unsteady.

My dilemma now is I don’t really know what to do or how to handle this knowledge. I don’t want to “attack.” But is pretending nothing’s going on right either?

I would suggest al-anon meetings.  You will find your answers there...

I agree that al-anon would be helpful. I went to a couple of meetings and it was really nice to feel understood. I’m not a group oriented person, so it wasn’t for me, but I have friends who love it. I guess they’re doing zoom meetings nowadays.

My husband was combining alcohol with pharmaceuticals and it really made him emotionally unbalanced, and way more inebriated than alcohol by itself.

I confronted him directly and repeatedly and it was not a good strategy. I tend to be way too direct and not empathetic enough anyway.

What I learned was that alcohol was one of his only mechanisms for self soothing and my criticism of his drinking was akin to criticizing his persona, rather than criticizing an unfortunate habit. It set me up to be “untrustworthy” in his mind because I was “attacking” him, rather than conveying my sincere concern that he was harming himself.

I don’t have any good suggestions other than tread carefully. It’s likely to be a sensitive topic since he’s hiding it from you.

That’s kind of what I was afraid of — that confronting him could just cause more problems. I have done some research on Al Anon. Problem is keeping it a secret from H. Not easy to do right now but I’ve been trying to read about it and find some sort of alternative.

A part of me wishes I didn’t know this was going on and that he was hiding it in the house. Now I feel paranoid, fearful, even more like I can’t trust him. (Already a problem but worse.)

Cat Familiar,

Did you ever have knowledge of your husband's drinking and drug use to endanger others. 

If so how did you react?   

It's one thing to drink and/or drug at home and then go pass out (not saying it's ok...).  It's another matter entirely to drink and/or drug and then get on public highways and/or go outside the home in a way that endangers others (that likely have no idea a "compromised" person is around).

There are legal and moral standards here (that don't necessarily match up).

"Spousal privilege" generally should prevent you from involuntarily testimony against your husband.

However...

There is still that nagging voice in your head of should I say something.  I pray that voice doesn't change to one of regret to where you are wishing you could turn back time and say something.

Now...there is a practical matter of "who to tell".  I'm still a fan of his doctor. 

Eventually you will need to address this with him. 

Will you continue to own operate and insure cars together?  You can't stop him from his actions but you can step away and "force" him to do it on his own.

Sorry for such an ominous post...there are lots of important things to think about.

Best,

FF

So your husband has a secret and you are considering ways to "deal with" that secret...in secret.

It's one thing to "attack" your husband (and I'm not suggesting that).

It's another thing to protect your husband from "feeling attacked", when he actually isn't.  (I am suggesting you consider this long and hard...find and draw boundaries for yourself).

Generally speaking...does BPDfamily "teach" that we should "hide" problems or "bring visibility" to them (in kind and compassionate ways).

Best,

FF

To answer your question, FF, there were a couple of times when we went out to eat and I felt that he had been drinking too much--3 martinis. He was driving somewhat aggressively and I didn't feel safe, so I mentioned it. Since he'd been drinking, he wasn't in a receptive mood to hear that.

But the drinking and drugging happened at home. I think it was related to his sleep disorders. He has a hard time falling asleep and was taking sleeping pills, adding alcohol, getting high on the combo and staying up late. He did have a prescription for anti-anxiety meds and sometimes he'd do that too.

I reminded him that numerous celebrities had met their maker doing that combo. I don't think he's doing that anymore.

I did tell his doctor about his creative use of the pharmaceuticals she was prescribing and she began having him come in every few months for an office visit to get his prescription renewed. Since then, he's switched doctors and I don't know if he even gets these prescriptions anymore.

Nowadays he still drinks, but I haven't seen him drunk in a very long time. He still has trouble getting to sleep, but I think he's doing better since he knows that it's important to stay healthy and not be sleep deprived in the COVID era.

Maybe telling him that you're going to Alanon might be a strategy. In that way you're not attacking his self-medicating, but acknowledging that you know what he's hiding.

I remember my husband being embarrassed that I would go. I didn't quit going for that reason, nor would I have if I really wanted to continue. I just didn't need the group validation, but it was a very warm and friendly bunch of people.

FF, re the secret stuff, that was in reference to my possibly going to Al Anon. If I were to go that route, it might (at least initially) need to be done without his knowledge. Part of the point of my going would be to learn effective ways of handling this, including how to approach him.

In short, I’m with you. I don’t think sneaking around is the right long-term strategy.

I want to address it with him. I want him to get the help he needs. I just don’t want to do a big thing badly and possibly make it worse.

Edited: Good point, Cat. That might be a way to broach the subject.

To add to FF's thoughts, it seems there is a real possibility that he could present a danger to other people, considering that you found alcohol in the car. And the blackouts--they very well could be due to the combination of alcohol and pharmaceuticals, rather than some undiagnosed neurological condition.

He may not be willing to get help. That's something you might have to prepare yourself about.

He and I have discussed the alcohol while driving and the medication interactions and I’ve been very firm and clear where I stand. He agrees. But in times of stress, that goes out the window. That’s why he really needs more help.

If he won’t get help, I’ll have to be prepared to do whatever I need for my physical, emotional and mental well-being.

Is he still seeing a therapist? And there's a potential liability issue with the doctor who is prescribing his meds.

He is. He says he’s told her about his drinking and that last week he sent her an email describing things that have been happening lately and his problems. Is she really aware of the extent? I don’t know. Same with his regular doctor. H told him he was afraid he was becoming dependent and he said the doctor agreed. H got rid of the wine after that — and moved to sneaking it in or drinking it while out.

Decision making under this kind  of stress and dysfunctional behavior is hard.  My recommendation is that you pick "which kind of mistake you are ok with making and the  lean in that direction"

Yep...read that a couple times.  You are in a catch 22...I'm sorry to report that but you know he won't receive it well...is there anyone here that thinks otherwise?

You also know there is danger to other innocent and uninvolved people.

So...you have to "pick your poison".  I don't see that you have a choice without "poison".

Note:  So...project yourself into the future and decide which mistake you are more comfortable with.  

Pissing off your husband too much (or however you want to describe it)

Staying silent and dealing with fallout from endangering others.

From there you will know which way to lean.

For you to in anyway own your husband's bad behavior because you "in-artfully" approached him is not the right way to think about this...IMO.  

So you approach him, he grumps and goes and drinks and then something bad happens...that something bad happens isn't your fault.

We teach here and I generally agree that the best way to help a pwBPD is to model good behavior.  Therefore if you want things to be out on the table and no hidden...you need to model that.

So...I can't imagine anything good from hiding al-anon, even the first meeting.  I would go the other way and mention you are going and invite him along.  Then go...regardless of what he does.

Please don't take this as "criticism"...please do take this as a deep dive into alternate courses of action for you to carefully consider.

I'm getting the vibe that you are trying to find a different nuance to make things better.

I think you need to think carefully about your path forward that is dramatically different.

Best,

FF

Social drinkers do not hide alcohol.  
From over 28 years’ experience I have with helping problem drinkers I would think the best approach would be contacting a professionally trained resource to help guide the situation.  I would suggest calling an AA or Al-Anon hotline for a recommendation of a professional in your area.  Most counties in the US have Govt. funded Alcohol Recovery Centers to help.
Doctors can also be a good resource, I agree with FF, however not all doctors are trained in the disease of Alcoholism.  
Alcohol - the stuff is cunning, baffling and powerful.  The problem dinker didn't wake up one day and wish they were a problem drinker.
Protecting is enabling the problem drinker.
It takes a lot of courage to admit there is a problem and to seek help.
There is a saying in the program of AA and Al-Anon- "we are only as sick as our secrets".
I wish you all the best…  

As you undoubtedly know, there's also a physiological dependence in addition to the psychological dependence, so words are cheap. I think it's easy for them to minimize what's going on. Whether or not the professionals see through that is another story.

I would bet that this pattern has been going on with him for a long time.

What do you notice when you believe he's been drinking?

Does he use breath mints or something else to cover the smell?

https://youtu.be/aNUiOmRaI3o

Ozzie101

What is your initial reaction to what is said in this video?

Best,

FF

FF, you’re giving me a lot of good stuff to think about (as always). I guess what I was thinking was I wanted to try to approach him in the way most likely to be effective but I can’t control that. All I can do is what I think is right and that I can live with.

Thank you, start. I appreciate your experience and input. Calling a hotline may be the best first step.

Cat, he’s often chewing gum after (well, when he’s done it away from home). And he has a different look in his eye. He’s more excitable and seems on edge. Also more easily argumentative.

I’ll check that video out when I get the chance and will report back.

Alcohol kills families in and out of the home period – sorry for the strong words.
Drinking Alcohol and then driving is an unacceptable behavior and needs to stop.  
Just last week I heard a story of someone who suffers from alcoholism.  Her husband called the police on her for drinking and driving, she spent time in jail.  That was enough for her to seek help.  She didn’t at the time but she realizes now that her husband saved her life.  Think about this - her husband cared so much about her that he resorted to having her arrested and put in jail so that she could see what she was doing to herself and the family.  
Showing kindness to an active alcoholic is like giving them a free get out of jail card – not the right recipe.

FF, my first reaction to the video is that it makes a lot of sense. But it also strikes me how difficult that would be — to save myself and leave him to himself. I’ve known it could come to that, but the reality that it could happen...

When I talk to him about it, my guess is he’ll be agreeable, sad, and open to help. He has been before. But he doesn’t stick.

So...best prediction of future behavior is...?

So...if you desire to maximize the chances of future being different than the past then you should?

Stay big picture with these answers..

Best,

FF

He’s likely to do what he’s done before.

So, Change the pattern. Handle it differently than I have in the past.

Think about where the line is between "nuance" and "big difference" and "vast difference".

What would each of those look like?

Best,

FF

Terrific video - thank you for posting it...

I’ve been thinking a lot about your question, FF. I’m generally a very passive person. My natural inclination is to try to make the other person feel better. Yet I know that that’s not always truly the kindest or smartest thing to do.

Rather than stating my concerns and then being too empathetic and understanding, I could hold a hard line without softening or soothing. I know you’ve been secretly drinking. I know you’ve had times where you drank and drove. This is dangerous and wrong and I cannot stay quiet about it. You need to get help from someone who specializes in substance abuse. Etc.

I could give an ultimatum (“get help and stick with it or I’m leaving”). But I hate ultimatums and have told him so every time he’s tried to give one to me. Some reading I’ve done on alcoholics says this approach isn’t a good or effective one.

A couple of weeks ago, he told me he thought maybe he ought to go away for treatment like my sister did. I supported that and we talked through some things. Then he lost his job that afternoon, which sort of blew those plans for several practical reasons. (And a residential facility may not need to be the first step.) He insists group therapy doesn’t work for him. But maybe I can find a one-on-one alternative that could work...

Anyway, obviously I’m not good at thinking up other approaches. The only thing I can think of is being very stern and firm and making it clear how angry/hurt/scared I feel.

The good news I see:  Your husband seems to be looking for a way to get help.  So it's not surprising that he is "flopping around" with different ideas.   My guess is this is new to him and scary.

I would approach him with your "feelings" and ask for his input.

Can you work on what it would sound like to tell him how terrified you are of the secret drinking and driving (but don't limit it to driving).

What would it be like if police show up instead of hubby...what if..what if...

Let him "rise to the occasion".  

What do you think?  (note...I would stay away from "do this or else", at least for now)

Best,

FF

I think that’s a very good way to approach it. (I agree that the “or else” would not be productive.) I have had that conversation with him, but I think it’s important to have it again to solidify.

Can you practice that conversation here?

Express emotions ask what you can expect in the future from him.

Best,

FF

I’ll give it a try.

“Babe, I need to talk to you about some things that have been worrying me. We’ve talked about your drinking and the effect it’s having. I know you got rid of the wine last year, but I know you’ve been bringing it back into the house and hiding it. There’s been drinking and driving.
Honestly, this terrifies me. I’m so afraid that I’ll get a knock on the door or a phone call that you’ve been hurt or killed — or done that to someone else. Or that you’ll go upstairs and come back down as someone else.
I feel like I’m constantly on edge, worried that you’re going to drink and have an episode where you’re going to black out or rage at me. I don’t feel safe in my home. I feel like I can’t believe what you tell me because I never know if it’s real or from one of your blackouts.
These things damage our relationship and they’re causing me a lot of pain and stress. From what you’ve told me, it hurts you too.
I’ve done some checking. There are treatment centers and therapists who specialize in alcohol issues. Some of them are free. There are different options and I’ll help you find one that’s a good fit. But it’s something that really needs to happen.
I need to know that you’re willing to commit to work on this if I commit to helping you.