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At midnight tomorrow, the gig is up.  My husband--and his stuff--must be out of the house. 

He agreed to this in the temporary orders.  He has his money from the loan I took  to buy him out, and it's just a matter now of waiting on the decree.  Per the temporary orders, the house will be legally in my name only once divorce is final. 

Three months ago he knew that he would be moving at some point.  Six weeks ago he knew that he would have ten days to move once the loan closed which finally happened on July 22.  He packed NOTHING or sorted through NOTHING until this past Monday evening.  He started off pretty well but as the week went on, he began doing less and less.  He wasted a ton of time this past week on things that didn't matter, took lots of breaks, and in general just jacked around. 

Finally, I asked him yesterday at five (he had done virtually nothing all day) when he thought he'd be finished.  He was livid.  He told me he didn't know.  I reminded him of the temporary orders and of the Monday midnight deadline.  He said that HE would be out by then but that there was no way his stuff would be and he couldn't tell me when that would happen.

 I just stood there a minute, speechless, and he became very hostile and said, "What? If you have a problem with that, then that's tough!" 

I said ok and started to walk away.  He challenged my "ok" and I told him that was fine, that I would convey his feelings to my lawyer.  What I did instead was to call the police department.  I was told that "vacate the marital residence" meant he AND his stuff had to go.  He cannot come back. When the divorce is final, I can do whatever I want with all his crap. 

Today, I left the house with my dogs and stayed gone most of the day. I texted him while I was out that he must get everything out that he intends to take by midnight tomorrow night and that he cannot come back.  I told him I had been advised by the police to call them if he tried to return once his deadline has passed. 

No response. 

I just got home (he isn't here) and it seems he has made great progress in the shop.  Maybe he will make it out after all with all his possessions.  I sure hope so because I don't want it here. 

One. More. Day.  Just under thirty hours to be exact. 

I think you did great!  I also think that the police's information was spot on.

Have you had a conversation about this with your L?  If not, please do.

Critical for you that your source of actionable information is your L.


To do list: 

1.  Are you able to change locks?  It's not very hard.  The day after, either change locks or call a locksmith and have them rekeyed or changed.  If you really like current hardware then just rekey.

2.  Make sure you do this with shop doors, padlocks and all that. 

3.  Look at all windows to house, make sure locks work.

4.  Garage door openers and codes.  If he has opener, please get it before he leaves.  Then change the code or call company to help you change code.

5.  If your unit is really old, this might be good time to change it out entirely.  They have some really cool technologies out there now that make a garage code much harder to "grab" out of the air is someone is trying to steal it.

6.  Are all utilities in your name and is his name and ACCESSS to those accounts removed
 

FF

You're just a few hours away from having him gone!  |iiii

FF, I'm on it!

He stayed at daughter's house last night.  Because he made no other arrangements for a place to live, that's where he's staying until he buys a house--except that he is now saying he may not buy a house.

It's nearly ten a.m. and no sign of him.  I don't know what he is thinking.  He has fourteen hours left and mountains of stuff to move. 

Good luck to you. Fingers crossed for tomorrow!

WOW! Your daughter may have a permanent houseguest! But not your problem.

Verbena,

You are doing great with all this stuff... .keep it up.

My recommendation is that you change locks or rekey at appropriate time.

If his stuff is till there, I believe you should be kind, firm and gracious.  Let him know when a good time for you would be for him to get the rest of his stuff.  Leave it at that.

Something in between catering to him and outright telling him no.  Do not put yourself out much for this.

If this doesn't work, in a week or so send him certified return receipt mail telling him that his stuff needs to go and that you will have it removed and send him bill or that whatever remains is your property.

Certainly this is only my advice, run all of this through lawyer and obviously his advice is the trump card.  But you get the gist of my advice.

There is a relationship aspect to this (boundaries and consequences) and there is a legal aspect to it.

Legal wins.

Hang tough!

FF

I think Formflier had some great advice. Personally, I'd change the locks after the time he's supposed to be out, and definitely include garage door openers, or any other way he could gain access. I'd have some grace with him getting his stuff, but not much. I mean, he's had ample time, and you deserve to have it gone. Like Formflier said, run it by your lawyer.

I can't wait to see if he actually gets out today. I'm hoping he does, so that you can have peace, and start to go forward with your life. You sure deserve that.

Any progress?  I am happy and anxious for you all at the same time. 

FF

I like the "hang tough" advice.  My daddy used to tell me that!

He finally showed up at eleven this morning. Turns out he was busy before that shopping at Bed, Bath, and Beyond and harrassing the poor lady who did our loan closing.  I called her to get some information I needed and discovered that he had just been there arguing with her about the date of the loan closing.  It was July 22.  He was there.  We had to sign and date many papers that day, and the date we wrote was July 22--because it was July 22. 

I asked him last week if he understood that the temporary orders said he had to be out ten days from the date of closing, not ten days from the day the money was released.  That didn't happen until a few days after.  He said that yes he understood. 

This morning, once he finally got here,  he began rifling through my loan closing documents, finally settled on a page he liked, and started waiving it in my face and reading from it.  He claimed this meant he did not have to be out by midnight tonight.  I did not respond at all.  I grabbed my phone and walked outside to call my attorney.  The grandbaby (20 months) was thankfully asleep in his room during this.  The attorney was not able to speak to me, but her secretary took notes on the situation.

I quickly grabbed a Wal-mart bag because I could not find the diaper bag, threw a few things in it, woke up my grandson, and loaded him into my car.  I calmly asked H to move his truck so that I could pull out.  He gave me a disdainful look but moved his truck.  I then called my grandbaby's other grandmother and asked for her to take him as I didn't feel comfortable given my H's irrational and angry behavior. In addition to all this, I had two fence guys working outside and three dogs inside that were going crazy because they wanted out.

I drove my grandson downtown to the other grandmother's office building and left him with her. My attorney's office is in the same building so I went to see her next.  She advised me to let my husband know that if he was unable to get all his stuff out by midnight, she could add something into the decree stating that arrangements could be made for him to have his things picked up at the house after the divorce is final.  That could actually be next week.  I doubt that it will be that soon, but it's possible.   

My attorney said that I could actually allow H to come back to the house for his stuff once divorce is final, possibly with a police officer standing by.  I told her at the rate he was getting his crap out of my house, that would be one very long stand by.  She said that if I wanted, I could call and ask a police offficer to go to the house and explain to my husband the reality of the temporary orders.  So I tried that and was told they could not come UNTIL he had had a chance to get out.  I called the constable and was told the same thing. 

I drove back to the house, worrying that the dogs inside were peeing on everything (and yes they had), noticed that the fence was nearing completion in the area where the dogs stay, and that husband's truck was there.  I kept driving to a friend's house and stayed there for about an hour.  Then I went back by the house and when I saw that his truck was gone, I went inside and let the dogs out, cleaned up pee, conversed with the fence guys, and made some phone calls. 

H shows up again and I stayed on the phone in the backyard and out of his way for a little while.  At one point, he asked me to get off the phone so he could ask me a question.  He then began asking me why he could not come back and get his junk, demanding to know what my lawyer had to say about that paragraph he read to me from the title papers (he was really fixated on that), and claiming that he had been told the closing didn't really happen on July 22.  I repeated what I had already told him in text about the temporary orders, etc., said I wouldn't argue with him, and walked back outside and called the friend back. 

When I realized H was in the bedroom going through photo albums of our kids (he did this for nearly two hours), I decided it was time to leave again.  I then drove one street over and stayed at a friend's house.  She was out of town but her kids (15 and 27) were there so I just hung out. 

At that point, the landscape guy called to say he was coming back to do more pruning so the rest of the fence could be completed tomorrow.  As I arrived back at the house to talk to them about additional work to be done, husband drove away with a load of junk. 

And as it turns out, that was his last time to leave this house.  I texted him a couple of hours later to see if he planned to come back for anything else. I figured he would ignore me, but he didn't.  Answer was no. 

 He left a ton of his things here.  He took no furniture.  I will ask the attorney to state in the decree that he must arrange with me a date and time to have movers come and retrieve his items.  If he comes back to the house, I will call the police.

It's finally over, and as Scarlett O'Hara says, "Tomorrow is another day."   

   

I would rather see you put something in the decree that acknowledges he took stuff and that EVERYTHING else is yours.

Please check your photo albums for pics you want.  Put something in order about digitizing and sharing photos.  I don't want you to miss out and have to go to him to ask for stuff.

Last: (for now).  Think about what he has taken, is there anything you want to dispute.

Based on his behavior, I would put a high value on NOT having him come back for more.  Even if that means you have to donate a lot to goodwill.

Please plan something extra special for you today.  Self care is top priority.

FF

For peace of mind and the freedom to deal with your house as you want, it might be worth the money to move his items into a storage unit and pay 3 months rent. Give the key to your STBX and let him deal with it.

He left with a few pages from one photo album. He can have those.

I don't want all his crap he left and will not spend another penny on him if I can help it. I will tell lawyer to put in decree that a time must be arranged for movers to come get it. If he refuses to agree to that, then I will sell it.

Someone is supposed to come today to haul his huge safe out of the garage. I agreed to this but specifically told H he cannot come with them. If he does, I will call police.

OK... .temper this advice with understanding of where it comes from.  Naval Aviators tend to be a bit feisty  and spend a lot of time "making points" to each other.  Kind of an odd way of establishing dominance.  (all women... .yes... .go ahead, roll your eyes at all the out of control testosterone)  

A lot of the advice (mine included) tends to be how to "soften" words so they are heard for the betterment of the relationship.

Your relationship with your husband is essentially over.  His case is one where I am shocked that he can't hear you.  I believe that in his case "the harsher the better" because he is more likely to "understand"

You need to continue to make a point that you are separate from him and that you won't be messed with.

Here is my advice.

1.  Get the decree to say the items are ALL yours.
2.  Take action that clearly establishes that they are yours and that you no longer want them.

Does this sound like I'm going back on my "grace" advice?  Probably so, and the best way to describe it is you have shown "grace" for over 30 years.  It's now time to show truth.  If he experiences that truth as harsh.  So be it.



We still need to fill in the best way to accomplish #2.  I'm thinking auction.  I have no idea if there is enough stuff to justify that.  :)o you think it would all sell for $10k?  Might want to call auction company to find out minimums.  

FF

Way to much grace there... .IMO. 

Stand up for yourself.  Establish dominance.  Don't put in the divorce decree that you will sell it.  Less is more.  The items are yours.

He can always ask... .you can say no... or yes.  Divorce decrees are about clarity and ownership.  Let him sort out the impact of that.  That's not your job.

FF

Police here.  More later when grandson goes down for nap. 

I love the Scarlett O'Hara quote. Today is that day! I sure hope that he is not causing drama today.

I agree with the others that anything he left should be yours. If this was an amicable divorce, and he hadn't been the way he was, I'm sure you'd be handling things differently. You've been though enough, and he was given enough notice. Heck, with the money he got from you for the house, he could have hired people to help him! He's chosen for it to be this way.

I'm hoping he doesn't try to get your daughter involved in this, or try to get her to speak on his behalf regarding any stuff he left behind. I agree with the others, that you should have the rest legally declared yours, and either sell it, or donate it. Make that place YOURS! Remove reminders, and start afresh. You so deserve that.

Praying for you.  Glad you called them.

FF

Thank you for the responses. 

I told him he could have all his stuff after the decree but movers would have to come get it.  I'm not going to go back on that and try to keep his crap because I do not want it here and do not want to fool with it. 

As for the police being here today... .
Too much grace again.  I agreed to allow movers come get his big safe out of the garage today.  I told him not to come with them as he could no longer legally be here.   

He came anyway. He stood in the street the whole time while the movers hauled it out.  He accomplished nothing by doing this other than a show of force against me that he could do what he wanted. 

I called the police when I saw him parked next door.  While I was on the phone with them, he began walking toward the house but stopped short at the driveway. He never put a foot on the property technically.  I showed the officers the temporary orders as well as the title company documents which were all dated July 22.  He is STILL convinced we didn't really close the loan on July 22.  After he left, the officers told me he disputed that date.  They showed him where he signed all the documents and asked if that was his signature.  He said yes but the closing date was actually wrong. 

They didn't seem too impressed by him.  One commented that he didn't seem too happy for them to be there.  He was patted down for weapons as he stood in the street trying to call his "buddy" who is a deputy sheriff. 

When all this began to happen, I put my grandson in his crib with some toys before I went outside with my phone and documents.  His room is on the front of the house with big windows behind his crib.  Afterward, I went back in to get him and he said to me, "Po-po go bye-bye?" 

I'm not planning on telling my daughter and son-in-law about this.  If H tells them and they ask me about it, I will stand by my decision. And I will call the po-po again on Pawpaw if he continues to act like the jerk that he is. 

Good for you! Good boundaries. I totally understand you don't want his stuff, but I just hate to see him using his "stuff" as a way to continue to create more drama and create stress for you. Even if it is just him standing in the street! He's still getting something out of that.

I mean, he was told not to come today, but he still did. What can you do to ensure he does not show up when his movers come to get the rest of his stuff, after the divorce decree?

Allowing him to get his stuff, via movers is great, but him showing up is NOT OKAY. He's been warned, and he clearly is not going to comply. I'm hoping someone on here has an answer for how to deal with this. I mean, I know you don't want to, but maybe a restraining order? Do you think he's so off balance that he's just going to keep showing up with random excuses?

Keep up the good work. I've had to call the police twice to remove my wife from the house.

It's a safe way to deescalate conflict.

I just spoke to my attorney.  She said it was best to allow him to have his crap.  I am fine with putting in the decree that he must contact me by phone to set up a time for movers to come.  This will be at MY convenience, not his, and it will be specified that he cannot accompany the movers. 

If he shows up anyway, even if he just stands in the street like he did today, I will call the police again. 

Lawyer wants me to give her a list of items he left.  She doesn't think this mess will be final by August 8 (the 61st day after filing) which is what I was afraid of.  I just want this to be over. 

Gosh. Now you have a new task of cataloging his sh!t. Great!

Well, the positive thing since the resolution is moving at glacial speed is that you won't see his mug around the house anymore. That ought to help.   

Along with the list you give the attorney of things your husband left, you might want to take some pictures. Would it be easy to consolidate it, to say, the garage or something? Have it all in one place that you don't have to see it as often?

It sounds like you have a great plan, and you've thought ahead in case he shows up again. I'd bet he'll do the whole standing in the street thing again. That is just so weird. I'm sure he's doing it to bother you.

It would be great if it was final by August 8th, but at least it's a countdown now, and he's finally out of your house!

CB,

Absolutely wonderful idea about taking pictures.  With smartphones now it's also easy to take a video.


Verbena,

I think the lawyer has given wise advice... .even if it isn't particularly satisfying.

Many times I have had lawyers talk me down from what I want to do (which might be legally possible) and talk me into a strategy that is legally wise and "defensible".

How will this look to a judge that doesn't know either of you and is looking to see who is reasonable and who is not.

Where are you at with self care?  

FF

I got a text from him tonight saying that he would "think it reasonable" that after the divorce is final he can come to the house and sort through all the stuff in the attic, garage, and shop that he hasn't had a chance to get to yet. 

Not happening.  He legally cannot be here anymore and I'm not inviting him back in because he's nuts and he might never leave.

I have also decided that I am not messing with any list for my attorney to use to draft some document and run up my bill.  I intend to text my husband back tomorrow and tell him he can make his own list of what he wants.  He said in his text it's impossible for him to know what he wants because he has to go through it.  Well, all things are possible.

I will offer him three dates after divorce is final to send movers to collect what is on the list.   If that isn't good enough, then so be it.  If he shows up with his movers, I will call the police on him again. 

This divorce is unusual in the fact that everything has been agreed upon in temporary orders BEFORE the decree.  WE both signed these orders and so did a judge.  It's on file with the court.  He asked for a certain amount and I got the loan to give it to him.  The money is in his bank account, and I get to start paying it back September 1.  He was required to vacate at a particular time and regardless of what he wants to believe was the closing date, it was July 22.  Ten days later is  August 1  and that was Monday.

This is all confirmed by the temporary orders themselves, by the closing documents which show our signatures and the date of closing, by my attorney, by two police officers I spoke to by phone over the weekend, and by the two cops I called to the house today.

He knew on April 26 when we said we'd talk to a realtor about selling the house that moving was in the future.  A week later, we began moving toward the idea of me staying here and him moving...   He didn't start packing his crap until last Monday because he CHOSE NOT TO.  He didn't get people over here to help him load his crap because he CHOSE NOT TO. 

I have been alone in this house for the third night now and I can't sleep, can't get anything done, and can't have the peace I need because tons of his crap is still here hanging over my head.  I went into his bathroom tonight to clean it, and he even left his Preparation H buttwipes.  Oh the irony.  Maybe I shouldn't have tossed them in the trash.  I may need them because he is still a pain in my butt. 

   

He had plenty of time and notice to "go through" things.  No more "niceness" is needed from you.

Good thinking on keeping your bill down.

Please don't text him.  Or perhaps text him to say that you have his text and are considering it.  This could easily devolve into a right/wrong debate.  Don't go there.

You have the orders, you are in the right.

Legally, my guess is that everything that is there is yours.  Confirm with lawyer.

Right now my best advice is to have lawyer send him a letter saying that if he wishes to provide a list that you will CONSIDER it.  DO NOT admit that any more of HIS stuff is still there.

More later.

FF

Verbena,

As a guy that has suffered with sleep issues, my heart goes out to you.  And my concern level is up some.

Especially about you texting or in any way "engaging" in communication with your hubby (soon to be ex!)

I do think it is wise to acknowledge it.

"I have received your text and I am considering your request".

Less is more.  Slow things down.

Discussion points with lawyer.

1.  Is the presumption now that the remaining stuff is yours?  (i get it you don't want it)

2.  Can she write a letter on your behalf OFFERING to consider items that he decided to leave behind and now wishes to have.  Make it clear you are doing this out of goodwill and make NO ADMISSION that any of it is HIS STUFF.

Perhaps you can send her a draft for review and to send under her letterhead, that will keep costs down.

Keep draft short, to the point. 

I do think taking pictures and videos is wise (again... .props to CB for bringing that up).

Not sure how onerous a task making an inventory is of stuff you consider to be his.  Don't rush to do this, but unfortunately, I think it wise you have the list.  Don't rush. 

Do hurry to do pictures and videos.

You need to sleep.  Consider calling your physician today and discussing short term sleep aids. 

Hang in there!  (If this comes across as a "directive" it is because I am concerned about you making judgments when low on sleep.  Very concerned)

FF

Keep this in mind: This is ALL deliberate on his part. FF is right, he's keeping you engaged. He's lost his narcissistic supply, or whatever else his problem is, not your problem any longer.

He's banking on your niceness, and he knows you well. He had plenty of time to get his stuff, and at this point, he's living with the consequences of not getting his stuff.

Gather up all his stuff, and seriously, put it somewhere else. It's no longer "his" bathroom, it's now YOURS. Gather his stuff up, box it, donate it, put it with the rest of his stuff, but clear that house out, so you can have peace. Well, as much peace as you can have with him texting you, and doing this deliberate crap.

Is it possible to go NC, or much lower contact? You aren't making a list for the attorney(I'd have refused too), so can you just tell him once and for all, that his stuff will be in the garage(or somewhere you put it out of your sight), and that his movers can come get it, but in NO WAY are you okay with him coming to sort his stuff. Tell him once, and keep the text. His movers can come get the stuff. This is all a game he's playing at your expense.

Once said stuff is gathered up(and I'm fuming that YOU should even have to do this!), take a video or picture, and send it to him with that text informing him that his MOVERS can come get it, but a reminder that he is not to come.

I support Ceruleanblue's and Formflier's comments.

What is so terribly irritating in this situation is that you've given him months to deal with his stuff, but he waited until the last minute, as you undoubtedly suspected.

If this stuff was really important to him, he would have taken it. Now you're stuck with his mess.

I understand because my ex not only left literally tons of crap littering my property, but also, once the financial settlement was done, I discovered that he had neglected to pay a joint account at the hardware store that amounted to several hundred dollars. That was a bitter pill to swallow after I had paid a huge amount of money to be done with him.

My attorney advised me rather wisely, but again, another bitter pill, that it would be in my best interests to just pay it off, rather than to legally challenge it. I would ultimately prevail, but the attorney's fees and court costs would be more money than the bill itself.

So, with this in mind, I had an idea for you, which you might want to run past your attorney if you decide to do it. Round up a number of people to help you move all his crap to a storage unit. Make it into a party. A goodbye party. A freedom party. Pay for one month at the storage facility and then leave the key for him at the office. If he lets it go into foreclosure, then that's his problem. You immediately get the stuff out of your life and there's no waiting or planning for movers. You're out money for the month's rent, but you're done, done, done with him.

Verbena, I'm sorry that he is choosing poorly and creating more work for you.

I've been thinking that there are a lot of similarities in how we deal with pwBPD and interacting with young children -- maintaining consistency is really important, doing what we say and not changing because they are creating chaos. (brings the focus back onto them) Any change can signal an open door to them. Don't open the door.

Potential draft letter (hope this helps)

Mr Grumpy pants.

I am writing on behalf of my client, "Mrs Glad you are the hell outta there".  Thank you for removing all of your belongs from Mrs Verbena's property on time in accordance with the (use proper name for instructions)... .perhaps draft order.

It has come to my attention that perhaps there are items located in "Mrs Verbena's" residence that you would be interested in obtaining.  If you would provide me a list of the items that you are interested in, I would be happy to pass it on to Mrs Verbena for her consideration.

Given your compliance with the (use proper name of order), I would think it likely that an mutually agreeable compromise can be reached.

Sincerely,

Fancy Pants lawyer.


Points being made here... .but not pounded on. 

The property is Verbenas, not his.  It is inferred the items are hers and she has control, but offers compromise.

And it butters him up some.

Hope this helps.

FF

FF, I got a chuckle out of your proposed letter.  I considered briefly this morning asking my lawyer to draft a letter to him.  I know that it would be a waste of time, though.  He would not respond to it or communicate with any lawyer.  Meanwhile, I would be billed for it. 

What I did instead is to text him back this morning at 9:32 that returning here was not an option.  I told him that  if he sends movers Saturday morning  I would direct them to pick up the items in the garage, shop, and attic that he did not remove.  I was careful not to say "your stuff." 

No response. 

Meanwhile, I got a phone call from my daughter this afternoon.  Looks like he's about to wear out his welcome over there, and this is only day three.  She vented, I said "I'm sorry to hear that"  a lot,  and I told her I hoped they would be able to work things out themselves.  I also told her that the issue of all the items left at the house was something to be worked out by her dad and me. 

I'm really doubting that may happen, though.  He has lost control of the situation, doesn't have me to project his nastiness on anymore, and is far too stubborn to follow any idea I have that allows him to have his crap.  So I guess we'll see.  Someone told me (maybe one of the police officers?) that thirty days after the decree all his mess would be considered abandoned property and I could do whatever I want with it. 

I need it gone way sooner than that.  Until I have every trace of him out of here, I cannot have peace. 
I'm not a drinker, but I found some really old whiskey in the pantry today and mixed a little with my iced tea.  It helped some.  I've been very jumpy all day. 

Verbena, I am so impressed with the strength that is carrying you through this ordeal.

Who would ever think that after 35 years you would have to call the po-po on paw-paw? Well, I would believe it, because as a member of the 35-year club myself I am seeing equally dramatic things from friends making the difficult move to split from spouses of 35 years. In my crowd, most of us are genuine senior citizens at this mark, because we tended to marry at roughly age 30.

It's tough on both partners. The one who wouldn't/couldn't listen, for decades, and also the one who stuck it out until the kids were really, really adults. Or until the aged parents had passed away. Or until a lifetime of working and saving had freed them financially.

You have been so brave and made such progress in the past twelve months. It is sad that your soon-to-be-ex has made so little adjustment during the same period.

Here's hoping you don't have to keep calling the po-po and that paw-paw doesn't end up in the pokey. I know you will be strong even if these things happen. But it sure would be nice if they didn't.

Verbena,

Glad you got a chuckle.

Couple things I'm going to press you on.

If we are talking about this Saturday, then I think you should hold on communication with lawyer and him.  See if movers show up.  

If movers show up, send them away with stuff and breath a sigh of relief.  If not, there is more thinking to be done.

Either way, if movers show up... .or not.  I think your lawyer needs to send a letter

Nothing big, yes it will cost you some, and if you send her draft and your thoughts on why... .it's shouldn't take too long.

Here is why.  When things go outside the agreement, it is critical for potential future legal challenges that you memorialize things and efforts at communication in writing.

I think this is even more critical if movers don't show.  

Either way the letter should request a response in writing.  We know he won't, that is not the point.  The point is to prepare yourself for a future challenge to show that you have been reasonable... .and then some.  That you made every effort to stay out a courtroom and that the reason you are in a courtroom is your hubby's refusal to cooperate and/or communicate.

Yep... .that's playing defense, but I think it is critical.  Please consider this for several days... and obviously, we'll have more facts in hand after Saturday.

I would also challenge you to start really thinking through boundaries with your kids about talking about their father with you.  I'm less interested in exactly what boundary you set, than I am about you thinking it through and then be consistent.

There are tons of ways to look at it.  

Great job on not "admitting" or labeling things as his.  In truth... .they are not.

I'm bouncing around a bit here.  

"Honey... that's something you should talk directly to your Father about... ."  comes to mind as a potential thing to say to your family when they want to vent.  

Hang tough?

FF

He has hired an attorney.

With four days before the decree could actually be final, he has hired an attorney.

My attorney tells me that his attorney has told him he cannot come here and get his stuff.  He is actually paying someone to tell him this.  Not sure what he is hoping to accomplish by any of this.  I guess it's just a show of force and to run up my bill.

At this point, ask your attorney if you should keep talking directly to him.  Texting... .anything.  My guess is no.

Let the attorney's work this out. 

My advice is to let your attorney show some flexibility to the other attorney in terms of when he can come and get additional things from the house.

Push to get to final decree.

Any demands that the other attorney has made?

FF

Despite the extra PITA his hiring an attorney creates, ultimately this is a good thing.  With his having legal representation, it makes it more difficult for him in the future to contest anything.

Ugh.

I'm guessing you can expect to receive demand letters. They may be written in rather inflammatory language. ("Your client has maliciously and inappropriately... ."

Don't worry about that. Your attorney can write responses. The responses can be brief and factual.

What's so irritating about this is that he's the one who has violated the written agreement, yet you keep getting sucked in to the drama and having to pay for attorney time. Been there, done that. Par for the course with a pwBPD or other PD. At some point it will be over. They just want to drag it out as long as possible. 

My attorney told me to  have no contact with him by phone.  I had texted him over 24 hours ago telling he could have movers come to the house Saturday.   I also told him that I would direct movers to take furniture that we had discussed. He ignored that text and then today texted me that I could contact him through his attorney.  That's how I found out he got one.  

I have been trying for months to get him to discuss with me about the furniture, etc.  He always ignored me.  

This is about retribution.  He has already hauled out of the house a giant safe and thousands of dollars worth of guns--tons of them.  He has piled in the shop hundreds of dollars worth of tools, table saws, expensive tool chests... .

He asked me to be able to come back himself after the divorce and go through the attic, storage room, and garage because he hadn't "even gone through those yet."  

My attorney says to absolutely not allow him back over here. Legally he can't be and emotionally--I can't do it.   I'm waiting for a call from her.  Can't eat, can't focus, grandbaby is here.  

My guess is I will indeed get a demand letter.  NOthing would please him more than to strip this house of anything he thinks I want.  He knows how much it all means to me and I know how he could never stand it when anyone would compliment me on it.  

I think the icing on the cake for him was when I called the police.  Then my daughter went off on him about his behavior.  I am really struggling here.  

Cat, yes he is the one who violated the written agreement. He knows that he was wrong trying to say that the closing dates were incorrect and he knows that he was wrong to not get his crap out of here. 

HE CANNOT BE WRONG.  Never in 34 years has he apologized to me.  Never in 34 years has he been wrong.  Never in 34 years has he accepted responsibility for his behavior.  This is at the core of his problem. 

So now, it's payback time.  He is using the money I GAVE HIM for this house (presumably so he could buy one himself) to pay for lawyers to drive up my legal bills and drag this out. 

Verbena, you will be done with him soon, as messy as this final chapter is turning out to be. With the agreement he's signed, there's not a lot more that he can actually do, other than annoy you and cost you some more legal time. Yes, he wants more stuff, but he had plenty of time to deal with that and he didn't. There will be some back and forth negotiation, and some added expense, but this can't go on long IMO. Most attorneys have some integrity within their community. They don't want to sully their reputation among their peers with vexatious litigation, as it is an abuse of the judicial process and may result in sanctions. That said, the attorney that represented my ex-husband had a reputation as a pitbull, but she ended up being reasonable in the long run.

This seems like a better and better idea as things are progressing... .

Getting a clan of supporters to come help you move his cr$p, would minimize time, effort and expense.  One month storage seems like a small price to pay for immediate removal of all his stuff.  I would video everything including the storage unit with things inside, the keys, the paperwork, etc... .And of course run the idea by your attorney to be sure it is ok to do this at this point and to cover all bases.  

If his belongings are the only reason for all this drama, the texts, the police, your stbx's attorney being hired, etc... .then again - one month at a storage unit is a very small price to pay to end tbis once and for all.

I'm sure friends who care would be thrilled to band together to get the stuff out asap.  Many hands make light work as they say!

May this all be resolved quickly and peacefully! ((Hugs))

HO44

Please do not move any property off site unless your attorney blesses that action.  Right now it is clear who has control and responsibility for the property.

This may feel like an emotionally good move to "be out from under his stuff", but my guess is an attorney would advise against it.

Plus if you put in in storage and he refuses it, will you really stop paying and then YOU (verbena) has a court case against you and potentially a judgement.  Unless you sell it or move it back... or keep paying.

FF

Verbena,

Last post got me to thinking about property and insurance and responsibility.

When do you get to switch the homeowners insurance into just your name?  

When does the house title switch over to just you?

My concern is (low probability of happening).  If some of his stuff gets broken that he has moved off the marital property, what insurance gets filed against.

Again... .low probability but definitely a detail to put on the checklist.

FF

What's the situation with the Quit Claim? Do you have it in hand? Or can STBX use it as leverage here at the last hours?

It's my understanding that a quit claim or something like that will be signed along with the decree. 

My attorney called me today.  According to H's attorney, H is concerned about when his name can be off deed.  He says it is hurting his credit and ability to buy a home.  I don't even know if I believe this.

Also, H's attorney intends to fight for the right for husband to come back here.  As it stands now, he legally can't.  My attorney thinks they can get a judge to allow it.  This could take time and delay everything. 

I give up.  I am going to let him come back because if I don't, it will be just that much longer that he is living with my daughter and her family and telling them he can't buy a house until everything is final.  The tension over there is high and my grandbaby is there. 

 
I can see why this is upsetting.     


Please don't give up.  Call his bluff.

Their living situation is not your responsibility.

Boundaries!


   


FF

Then if you anticipate, via your attorney's advice, that the judge will allow him access, you need to figure out how best to control that situation - else it turn into his taking far more than you want or expect him to take.

Options? Brainstorm here... .

Move his items to garage; he has access to garage only.

Make sure several friends are in the house with you on the day he is designated to remove final items... .Make it as uncomfortable as possible for him to be there or to stay for a long period of time.

Have attorney's agree on number of hours access.

When he leaves with final items, require that he acknowledged in writing that removal is finished.

Etc etc.

Any other thoughts.

You are close to the finish.

You are close to finish!  You have hired an attorney, let them do their job. 

Focus on caring for your emotions. 

How are you sleeping?

FF

He is fighting for the right not just to come and pick up his stuff, but to "go through" it.  There is a massive amount of stuff in the shop all lined up and stacked up neatly down the center.  Movers can just grab and go there, no need for me break my back or pay people to move to garage. 

I don't know yet how this will play out.  No, I am not sleeping and can barely eat.  Barely care for grandson.  My son-in-law asked me to call him when baby goes down for nap.  My guess is he wants me to do whatever is necessary to give my husband what he wants so they can have some peace over there. 

This is my decision.  I'm crying out to God for some peace and I know I'll have it eventually.  Right now I feel traumatized and have a lot of hate in my heart toward my husband for what he has done to me--not just lately but for years. 

Please call your dr about sleeping and eating.

Do you have a friend that can come stay with you?

FF

To the bolded: Aw, hell naw!

Your daughter and her family made a choice in letting him in.  Let them handle the consequences of their decision.

That he wants to come over and go through stuff is why your attorney needs to work with his to set a limit on the time he has to be on the property, and specific locations he can access - say, shop and garage, not the house or attic.

And he must be monitored to ensure he leaves on time.

I can see how a judge might say that, after that many years of marriage and co-mingling of property, he could return one more time for X hours to complete vacating. So how many hours? 6-8? Give your attorney your limits, but listen to him her.

 

Update: 

Husband and son-in-law are coming to the house today to haul away stuff.  Daughter and I will be out of town shopping. 

Lots has happened leading up to this.  I will post more tonight. 

Any movers?  I am imagining a lot of stuff for 2 people.

 

Hang tough.

FF

No movers.  Just H and SIL.  At least 104 degrees here.  SIL called me mid-morning to say that the storage unit that he believed items were being taken to HAS NOT HAD THE CONCRETE IN FRONT OF IT POURED YET.

Yes, you heard me right. 

So much of his junk is still in my garage and in my shop.  Nothing was actually moved out of the shop today.    Movers are supposedly coming WEdnesday to pick the rest up, and H needs to stand in the street while this happens according to SIL.

I just want off this crazy train. 

UPdate:  

I got ahead of myself on the post I made last night, so I'll back up a little.

On Thursday, I spent a lot of time worrying what husband was up to with getting a lawyer four days before the divorce could be final,  talking to my attorney (who had talked to H's new attorney), and trying to figure out what  H was alleging.  It was very confusing to both of us.

My attorney was hired to do the divorce.  She put into the temporary orders that I was responsible for getting the loan, which I did, and paying my husband.  Which I did.  She did not have copies of all the loan documents at that time.  She asked that I bring them to her when I could.  

I could not make myself get out of the house on Thursday to take the loan papers to her for her to review.  I just couldn't.  I felt almost paralyzed.  I had my grandson here, I was fielding phone calls, had friends calling to check on me, and was just a big mess.

Thursday night after grandson was gone and I was alone here in the house, I fell apart.  I alternated between screaming, crying, punching pillows, and acting like a crazy person.  I guess I had an emotional breakdown of some sort.  

Friday morning, my son-in-law called me and asked that I call him when grandson went down for his nap.  I did.  SIL expressed real concern to me that H was not going to be able to move forward with purchasing a home because of the way I had done my loan.  H convinced him that HUSBAND'S NAME was on the note, that I needed to move forward quickly with paperwork to re-finance the house and removed H's name from the note.  I'm leaving out a bunch of other stuff SIL told me H had told him because I was confused, in a state of shock, sleep-drived, and completely confused.

I obviously knew that I was the one who took out the loan, that I was the one who signed the note, and that huband did not sign the note.  I knew this.  Yet, I began to believe I had done something wrong. I called my lawyer (who still hadn't gotten the loan papers from me because I couldn't make myself get dressed and go downtown to give them to her), my loan officer, and the owner of the title company that did the closing.

Finally it hit me that I had the proof of who signed the note in my paperwork.  I got the baby and myself ready and headed downtown with the paperwork.  I couldn't handle a 20-month old and meet with lawyer at the same time, so I met my daughter halfway and passed my grandson off to her.  She was stressed and on her way to meet with a client but cancelled her plans to help me out.

I had a friend on the phone who was praying out loud for me as I made my way downtown. I was praying that I was not going to owe my lawyer even more money that I had obviously incurred the day before for the mess caused by H.  When I stepped into the elevator, a woman I didn't know looked at me and asked if I had allergies.  I said no.  The door opened to the third floor and as I got off she said, "You're going to be okay!"

I met with my lawyer.  She took my loan paperwork and said it was going to be okay, to let her straighten it out.  I then told her about my son-in-law's idea to bring husband over on Saturday and supervise him getting his stuff.  I told her I understood that she would have to do some kind of written agreement, that it needed to happen quickly, and that I was willing to do it to make this happen and end this.  I also told her, however, that I was tapped out financially on this divorce.  Because I am. 

She told me that if I trusted my son-in-law, to go for it.  It was my house and my decision to allow it.  If H refused to leave with son-in-law when SIL said they were done, I was to call the police.  I asked, "What about his attorney?  :)on't we have to have a written agreement now that he has an attorney?"  

She said, "HIs attorney is an ass. I'll take care of it."  

So, SIL and H came over yesterday and worked all day in this incredible heat.  I don't actually believe that movers will even show up on Wednesday to remove all that's left which is a ton.  Husband is insisting to SIL that he must stand in the street while this happens.  

I am going to let him stand in the street.  I have someone who will be here to supervise movers and to see that he stays in the street.  I won't be here to see him standing in the street making a fool of himself but thinking he got the last word.  Let him think it.  He is losing everything and doesn't even know it.  

 I cannot take this anymore.  I want it to end, I want his stuff gone, and I want my life back.  

 

I know you have a  lot on your plate. 

Is there a friend (not family)... .that can come stay a few days, or do some tag team with your family?

Can you call your Dr on Monday and tell him about your sleeping and eating.  I'm assuming it is not much better.

Note:  I did the sleep call thing once (after the CPS incident).  Psychologist and Dr conferred and said that if I wasn't sleeping more than x hours per night by a certain date... .they would medicate me. 

The day prior... .I started to sleep better.

I'm not sure if you have any other med conditions... .but... .you want someone else to help you coordinate that and make decisions when you can.

I think this will be ok.  You are talking to lawyer and letting her handle it. 

This is a "tactical battle" (stuff) that you need to end so you can win the war (get the divorce).

"Retiring" from battle is much different than surrender.  The smart "fighters" know when to not fight. 

"Stuff" is not worth delaying the divorce.

FF

FF:
A friend from out of state may be coming soon. 

I am actually sleeping much better, but I continue to have ups and downs with crying and panicky feelings.  I have a friend who is a certified counseler that I called today when that happened.  I can call her any time time, day or night.  I plan to start Divorce Care WEdnesday. 

My attorney told me Friday that the fact that my husband got his own attorney at almost the last minute WILL slow down the divorce being finalized.  Tomorrow is the 61st day since I filed.  She told me Thursday that she had the decree basically ready to go when H's attorney contacted her with his claims and created so much confusion. 

I just had NO IDEA of what staying in this marriage for nearly 34 years had done to me.  I think I am getting out just in time. 

I keep telling myself that we have to get through the bad place, to get to the good place. Somehow, it helps me. I know things stink right now, but,  "this too shall pass". We are capable of being happy, and we both have faith that God wants us happy.

I think your husband, and my husband are having serious issues with losing control, and they are struggling to maintain the feeling of having "some" control, even if it's by causing delays, or in my case lobbing yet more threats(way after I've said I'll grant him that divorce he's been threatening for years). The old tactics aren't working, and they are grabbing at straws.

You are further along, but we are going down a similar path. I look forward to no more silent treatment, no more being mocked and belittled, and no more living in fear. No more remaking myself to please someone that can't be pleased. No more constant blame, while he takes zero responsibility. No more rage face, and intimidation. No more hypocrisy.

I think what you are feeling is pretty textbook, and I went through it when he walked out last year, and I'd bet I'll have it to some degree when I finally leave. I'm sure it's PTSD, and also withdrawal. I too struggle with feeling I hate him at times. I have empathy for him, but I hate the cruel man he chooses to be so often. I didn't marry him to be abused, and he's about to find that out. Neither of us deserved all this, and if their lives are in shambles, they should look in the mirror. They sure aren't too worried about the mess they've left us in(and we are only going to be a temporary mess, unlike them. We'll bounce back!)

Chin up, and I'll do the same.

It has been another week since it was "supposed" to be done.

What's happening now?

And how are you feeling about it? You sounded really distraught for a while there. It should be a very emotional time... .and further, now that he's out of the house (mostly!), the space is safe for you to actually experience or express your own emotions, so they could come out a lot louder than before.

Everything came to a head last Thursday.  

My daughter called her dad that morning and told him to stop wasting his money and mine trying to get his lawyer to prove something that wasn't true.  She told him she did not appreciate him living in her house under the pretense of needing a place to stay while he looked for a house to buy while claiming I had ruined his credit and that his name was on my loan.  Her dad told her that he had proof he was on the loan.

Minutes later, my son-in-law called H and told him basically the same thing.  SIL said that he and my daughter had both seen my loan papers (they had asked to see them and I showed them) and that they both knew this was untrue.  H said he would like to see proof of this.  I guess he forgot he had just told my daughter that he HAD proof.  He also must have forgotten that while I was signing the loan papers at the closing, he asked the closer if he was responsible for paying the loan back and that she told him no.  

A few hours later, my daughter called her dad and told him that they all needed to sit down that night and talk about what was really going on with this claim that he was on my loan and also about him finding a place to live.  Suddenly, H said that he now realized he was not on my loan,  that there was nothing to talk about, and that he would proceed to look for a place to live.  Magically, his credit (that I had ruined) was just fine.  

They were both so exhausted from dealing with all this mess and from his attitude in general in their home that they just let things ride for awhile.  

Friday morning, H showed up with his movers to haul away the last (at least I hope) of his crap.  He stood in the street while this happened.  I had a friend here to watch my grandson and answer any questions the movers had.  All the stuff was in the garage and shop, so no one came into the house.  I had planned to be gone before movers arrived but failed to leave soon enough.  As I was pulling out of the driveway, I saw H standing there and had a small panic attack.  My hands were shaking and my heart began to race.  I didn't mean to, but I punched the gas as I drove past him. 

Over the weekend, my daughter insisted that he look at houses, which he did apparently, but then last night there was another blow-up when H claimed he just didn't have time to be looking at houses all the time.  He ended up packing a bag and leaving without a word.  

H is now all about getting this divorce done and to that I say, "Hallelujah."  My attorney says she and I will be standing before a judge within a week.  

H was one crappy house guest apparently, but now he's all alone with his misery in a hotel room where I guess he can play his games with himself.  

No accountability with me over the destruction he caused in our marriage, no accountability with his daughter and son-in-law over his lies and manipulation, and no remorse for the chaos he caused in their home.  

I am enjoying him not being here and trying to get back into a routine.    I'm feeling better every day.  Our 34th anniversary is this Sunday. 

Well, you won't have to buy him an anniversary present!  *)