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Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Detaching and Learning after a Failed Relationship => Topic started by: Tincup on July 02, 2014, 03:34:00 PM



Title: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Tincup on July 02, 2014, 03:34:00 PM
Hi all,

I don't know why I am having a weak moment after being NC for so long.  No worries, I have no urge to contact her at all.  Actually I am at the point where I could even run into her somewhere and I don't think it will bother me.  I don't want her back at all, but my question is this and I don't know why I am even thinking about it... But this journey really is two steps forward and one step back (this is my one step back moment).

My rational side knows the answer but here you go... .Will she be the same way with the next guy? Or was I just "special" and triggered her?


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: enlighten me on July 02, 2014, 03:42:51 PM
Im seeing the pattern play out with my ex wife and her fiancé. Ive also seen the pattern with my exgf and her exs.

Not been around to see if the exgf is already in another relationship and doing it again but as sure as night turns into day she will eventually.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Tausk on July 02, 2014, 04:09:02 PM
There is no sure way to tell what patterns will develop.  My replacement doesn't trigger my ex like I did.  He's much more repressed and lonely. And he doesn't have a sense of boundaries like I do.  So in many ways he's a better fit.  I knew he was a better fit for my ex, even while my ex was cultivating him when we were together.  And I knew that they would get married when I left her.  I understood that she didn't want someone to love her.  Just to tolerate her.

Will he be treated better?  Probably not.  Will he have a partner who can provide understanding, compassion, empathy, self sacrifice and responsibility?  Probably not.  The issue is that I became a toxic trigger to my ex and visa versa.  My closure and detachment is attainable only when I detach from what may be occuring in my ex's life.  The projected shame of the Disorder tells me that the longer my replacement stays with my ex, the better he is and the less of a person I am.  This simply is not true.  It's simply a factor of the level of trigger and the tolerance towards the Disorders.  

I needed a partner and friend.  My ex would never be able to really provide what I needed.  And the more this became apparent the more tense and toxic we became.   Freedom is detachment from my ex.  So, I try and often pray for their happiness.  I radically accept (which hurts like a motherf-ker) that they are in "love" and they are good for each other.

Remember!  A truely self actualized and mentally aware and healthy person probably wouldn't have lasted more than a few weeks with my ex.  I lasted three years.  So increased length of interaction with a gfwBPD does not correlate with mental health, success, or anything on those lines.  I was not better than the previous guys before me, and I am not better than my replacement.  I was just the next guy to put down his money at the kissing booth.

But I do know that it is very very very unlikely that she will find herself cured one day.  It just doesn't happen.   Happiness is very unlikely.   Look at the poll of people who are asked if they would do it again, would they marry their ex.  If you take out the kids factor, it's a lobsided... ."HELL NO."   But I give my cheating ex and her new cheating husband, a 50/50 chance that in the end, they will survive in misery.  I'd say 45 percent chance of divorce.  And about a 2-5 percent chance of murder/suicide.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: enlighten me on July 02, 2014, 04:22:26 PM
Hi Tausk

My thoughts on this are simple. The pattern will always repeat its just the timing that's different.

Just because a person seems to be a better match doesn't mean it will work out. Everyone has a straw that will break the camels back. The fact that mt exgf and her ex husband lasted 6 years and we lasted 2 1/2 doesn't mean he was a better man than me or I was more astute and sussed her out earlier. It all depends on what triggers her.

A more laid back person may seem to be less confrontational to us but to a BPD may appear to not be interested in them thus triggering them.

The way I see it is a person with BPD has a certain capacity for negative feelings before they spill out. A gentle trickle will one day fill them up. Where as some one who is more confrontational with them will be like opening the flood gates.

My ex wife is due to be married in 2 days but her mum has said she has been devaluing her fiancé for a few months. The same pattern as happened with me and her.

Im a bit tired and its not the most elegant way of putting it across but it will have to do for now.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: mstnghu on July 02, 2014, 04:42:08 PM
I go back and forth as to whether or not I want to stay with my BPD wife. When we get in really bad blow out fights I've flat out told her that no other man would put up with what I've put up with from her. If we end up in divorce, I almost have some sort of twisted desire to see her in another relationship almost so I can prove I was right... .because I know she would treat the next guy with just as much craziness as she's treated me. She would also realize the grass isn't greener on the other side. In her mind, I'm a terrible person and she could find somebody so much better. She's had previous boyfriends before I came along who I've never met and I've always been curious as to how their relationships were with her. I'm sure the version I get from my wife isn't exactly accurate.

So basically, I do believe that no matter who BPD people are with, they will eventually show their true colors and will repeat the cycle. I think my wife and I tend to have a volatile relationship because I actually have a backbone and have been making a conscious effort to reclaim my life. My wife probably would be better off with somebody who's a complete pushover. They'd fight less, although I know she'd still not be a happy and content person. I'm not willing to let her bulldoze me into the ground anymore and it infuriates her when she doesn't get her way with me. That's one of the biggest triggers that will cause her to lash out at me and let me know what a terrible husband I am.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Changingman on July 02, 2014, 04:45:43 PM
Hey Tincup,

I don't blame anyone for asking this question.

I think it comes partly from how crazy and abusive the relationship was. It was so abnormal, how could it possibly happen again. Won't she learn, was it just me etc.

I thought about all the RSs before me that I knew of, little fragments most.

They all suddenly made sense! It all fit.

The (1.5 year) boyfriend who 'just never called her again, after her birthday night'.

The guy she fell in love with and moved to Scotland to be with, only to return quite quickly.

The man she was seeing for 5 months who's wife/girlfriend was 5 months pregnant with his baby. (I thought the man had seduced her, the cad, ha ha ha ha)

Her 'best friend' who she went out with when she was younger, had 4 affairs behind his back and an abortion.

These are just the ones I have some knowledge about! mainly from her ex boyfriend. The sad truth, and the proof unfortunately is that we were not in any way 'special', we were irrelevant, those before us were irrelevant, it was just about her. Nothing personal, just a fantasy object for a while. Hardly human to her, at the end a hated object.

She is going through the same fantasy/trauma bonding/mirroring/bull. Crisis, abuse, no love, no empathy, love to hate etc that she does everytime.

What can she get, how can she control, when will her behaviours destroy the new victim and she is forced to move on. No friends, no past, no future.

In truth, we are lucky to have lost them, really lucky to have retained our health and sanity. She convinced me it was everyone else who was the problem, but I could see clearly once out of the FOG, it was just her.

I still am amazed that she felt soo black inside.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: lipstick on July 02, 2014, 05:32:32 PM
Hi Tincup,

This is a great post. I often wonder about my exBPDbf and why he stays in an abusive marriage with his (also BPD) violent spouse. They've been married 25 years. He was supposed to divorce her to marry me. Yeah... .that obviously didn't happen!   :)

I sit and ruminate about how she gets a constant free pass to be as heinous as she wishes. Isn't "split black" like I am. I'm the Devil and she can do no wrong.

So like you - I would also like reassurance that the patterns repeat... .it still really stings sometimes knowing that I was tossed aside for such a less-than-quality person.



Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: maternal on July 02, 2014, 06:13:33 PM
The pattern that I experienced with my ex happened before me and while I can't ever say for sure, it will very likely repeat itself after me.  He seems to have about 4 years max in relationships.

I have him blocked on all fronts, but because we have mutual acquaintances, I've seen a few of his recent Instagram posts pass through my Twitter feed, he's waifing it up, trolling for sympathy and letting folks know how horrible I was to him (just as he said about his ex-wife when I met him).

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter.  I don't care.  I can't care.  Yes, I have my moments as we all do, but I can't waste energy on this dude anymore.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 02, 2015, 09:51:00 PM
feeling same way my ex undiagnosed BPD gf is still with my replacement 15 months and going... from pics ive seen they look happy and i know he is way more passive than i am... plus he is a downgrade in looks so her being beautiful will have more control over him.add to this his increased wealth over mine and it looks like they will be together for a very long time    longer there together more i believe it was me that triggered her abuse and infidelity  


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: apollotech on August 02, 2015, 10:39:59 PM
Will she be the same way with the next guy? Or was I just "special" and triggered her?

Tincup,

Yes, if you were able to trigger her that indicates that you were special; she had a deep emotional attachment with you (yes, I know that you were saying that sarcastically). And she may have the same deep emotional attachment with the next guy, and they may stay together until death does them part. Knowing what you know about her, what you experienced with her, do you think that the relationship, if it lasts, will be a bed of roses? I implore you to go read on the Staying Board for a bit. God Bless those dedicated people over there; they work terribly hard to maintain their relationships/marriages to their respective BPD partners.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: valet on August 02, 2015, 11:17:03 PM
Hey Tincup, I understand what you're going through. I had those same worries after my pwBPD ended our relationship. 'Wasn't I special? Wasn't I good enough? Could someone else be better than me for her?'

It's a difficult dilemma to face for any person at the end of any relationship.

To me, no one is special, and everyone is special, both at the same time. The important thing to focus on in either case is yourself.

Do you feel happy now, and what can you do to ensure that you are?


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Schermarhorn on August 02, 2015, 11:24:42 PM
If their relationship lasts longer, its just because the non just can put up with more abuse.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: letmeout on August 02, 2015, 11:45:37 PM
If their relationship lasts longer, its just because the non just can put up with more abuse.

I think it also depends on how much abuse you took when you were growing up. If that is what you were use to, then you would be able to take a real pounding from an abusive partner for quite a while.

I am living abused free now, and I intend to keep it that way!


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: rotiroti on August 02, 2015, 11:55:06 PM
If their relationship lasts longer, its just because the non just can put up with more abuse.

I think it also depends on how much abuse you took when you were growing up. If that is what you were use to, then you would be able to take a real pounding from an abusive partner for quite a while.

I am living abused free now, and I intend to keep it that way!

Thanks for that, feels good to have left after 8 days


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 02, 2015, 11:58:37 PM
If their relationship lasts longer, its just because the non just can put up with more abuse.

I think it also depends on how much abuse you took when you were growing up. If that is what you were use to, then you would be able to take a real pounding from an abusive partner for quite a while.

I am living abused free now, and I intend to keep it that way!

I had an abusive father but i was no saint either... i took abuse but not quietly for 2 years out of a 4 year relationship... she was at her worst when drunk  


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: disorderedsociety on August 03, 2015, 12:10:41 AM
There is no sure way to tell what patterns will develop.  My replacement doesn't trigger my ex like I did.  He's much more repressed and lonely. And he doesn't have a sense of boundaries like I do.  So in many ways he's a better fit.  I knew he was a better fit for my ex, even while my ex was cultivating him when we were together.  And I knew that they would get married when I left her.  I understood that she didn't want someone to love her.  Just to tolerate her.

Will he be treated better?  Probably not.  Will he have a partner who can provide understanding, compassion, empathy, self sacrifice and responsibility?  Probably not.  The issue is that I became a toxic trigger to my ex and visa versa.  My closure and detachment is attainable only when I detach from what may be occuring in my ex's life.  The projected shame of the Disorder tells me that the longer my replacement stays with my ex, the better he is and the less of a person I am.  This simply is not true.  It's simply a factor of the level of trigger and the tolerance towards the Disorders.  

I needed a partner and friend.  My ex would never be able to really provide what I needed.  And the more this became apparent the more tense and toxic we became.   Freedom is detachment from my ex.  So, I try and often pray for their happiness.  I radically accept (which hurts like a motherf-ker) that they are in "love" and they are good for each other.

Remember!  A truely self actualized and mentally aware and healthy person probably wouldn't have lasted more than a few weeks with my ex.  I lasted three years.  So increased length of interaction with a gfwBPD does not correlate with mental health, success, or anything on those lines.  I was not better than the previous guys before me, and I am not better than my replacement.  I was just the next guy to put down his money at the kissing booth.

But I do know that it is very very very unlikely that she will find herself cured one day.  It just doesn't happen.   Happiness is very unlikely.   Look at the poll of people who are asked if they would do it again, would they marry their ex.  If you take out the kids factor, it's a lobsided... ."HELL NO."   But I give my cheating ex and her new cheating husband, a 50/50 chance that in the end, they will survive in misery.  I'd say 45 percent chance of divorce.  And about a 2-5 percent chance of murder/suicide.

Most resonant story so far

She commented on him before I went nc... ."he seems passive"

Hmm... .Obvious contrast to me. I did have some sense of boundaries but not enough to keep from picking up the negative feelings.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Pretty Woman on August 03, 2015, 09:22:26 AM
Apollotech has a great point... .the more you triggered them, the more you meant.  I do believe that. Truly, I do.

Mine constantly asked ":)o you really love me?" right up to the very end.

But then they demon-ize you to everyone they know, and I'm sorry. Right there, that trumps everything for me. They paint you as a beast, when all you did was love them.

I am fortunate to be friends with her ex as well as an ex of her ex and yes, patterns repeat... .timing differs but same shyt another day... .and person.

My ex left me in 2013 for an ex up North. She had once told me this ex's aunt told her "My niece can do so much better than you". I mean she told me this.

I believe they do tell the truth of what people have said... .to gain sympathy... .but they are trueisms.

So she leaves me for this ex she has been having an emotional affair with, breaks up her marriage, dumps her and comes back to me.

This woman, this ex hadn't dated her in six years and was on off with her for years.  I hated this person for the longest time. Now I see she was just as stupid as the rest of us   She fell for the same song and dance... .years later.

My ex keeps tabs on everyone. She never leaves a relationship alone.  Hence, yes, there are patterns.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: jhkbuzz on August 03, 2015, 09:27:10 AM
My closure and detachment is attainable only when I detach from what may be occuring in my ex's life.  The projected shame of the Disorder tells me that the longer my replacement stays with my ex, the better he is and the less of a person I am.  This simply is not true.  

Can you explain the sentence in bold a little more?



Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: jhkbuzz on August 03, 2015, 09:30:33 AM
If their relationship lasts longer, its just because the non just can put up with more abuse.

I think it also depends on how much abuse you took when you were growing up. If that is what you were use to, then you would be able to take a real pounding from an abusive partner for quite a while.

YES! ^^^


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: SummerStorm on August 03, 2015, 01:58:13 PM
She commented on him before I went nc... ."he seems passive"

Hmm... .Obvious contrast to me. I did have some sense of boundaries but not enough to keep from picking up the negative feelings.

Here's what she said about her boyfriend, compared to me.  I texted the guy pretty extensively while she was in the hospital and after, and I can confirm that her descriptions are accurate:

1. He is oblivious to the world around him / I saw EVERYTHING and called her out on her lies

2. He didn't notice that she was cutting again, despite the band-aids all over her wrists and arms / I knew right away

3. His idea of doing something sweet for her is buying her a video game / Mine was writing her a romantic letter, explaining everything I loved about her

4. He cancels plans and sits around with her in bed when she doesn't feel like doing stuff / I made other plans or just stopped making plans with her because I was tired of her canceling all the time

5. He thought smoking pot was a great idea, but it caused her to start smoking it all the time and risk losing her job / I don't do drugs and spent weeks telling her to stop smoking

6. He just basically allowed her to move herself into his place and not help pay rent or bills / I told her I was going to buy a house, get settled, and then work out a plan for what she was going to help pay for

One thing he actually told me was, "I wish I could have been more open to her.  I didn't see how things were affecting her.  I was working all the time and barely saw her."

Her idealization of him has lasted longer than her idealization of me.  Having said that, it hasn't been smooth sailing for him, either.  She acted like a spoiled brat at a party that she didn't want to go to and then got physical with him for the first time that night.  The next few weeks were "stressful," according to him.  Of course, he is also oblivious to the fact that she moved herself in and lied to everyone and said he asked her to move in.  He also said that she seemed to really like living with him, but all of the problems started once she moved herself in, so... .  


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 03, 2015, 06:09:08 PM
My closure and detachment is attainable only when I detach from what may be occuring in my ex's life.  The projected shame of the Disorder tells me that the longer my replacement stays with my ex, the better he is and the less of a person I am.  This simply is not true.  

Can you explain the sentence in bold a little more?

i think what there saying here is that PwBPD have a way of making you feel ashamed for not living up to their expectations of you and for tolerating abuse... its projected shame cause they feel ashamed of them selves cause they are aware what they do is very wrong but cant stop its who they are and they hate themselves for it...

the longer they stay with your replacement the more shameful you feel cause if your replacement is lasting longer then they must be better than you...

i struggle with this very concept daily... my replacement is a 57 year old obese physically unattractive  wealthy man while im a 50 yr old slim average attractiveness middle income man... it makes me wonder if my exgf who is very attractive by any mans standard can love an obese unattractive man what does that say about me ? i must be far more unattractive...

will she cheat,lie,sext,abuse on him ? or was it just me ? how much of a difference will his wealth make ?


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: rotiroti on August 03, 2015, 06:50:56 PM
My closure and detachment is attainable only when I detach from what may be occuring in my ex's life.  The projected shame of the Disorder tells me that the longer my replacement stays with my ex, the better he is and the less of a person I am.  This simply is not true.  

Can you explain the sentence in bold a little more?

i think what there saying here is that PwBPD have a way of making you feel ashamed for not living up to their expectations of you and for tolerating abuse... its projected shame cause they feel ashamed of them selves cause they are aware what they do is very wrong but cant stop its who they are and they hate themselves for it...

the longer they stay with your replacement the more shameful you feel cause if your replacement is lasting longer then they must be better than you...

i struggle with this very concept daily... my replacement is a 57 year old obese physically unattractive  wealthy man while im a 50 yr old slim average attractiveness middle income man... it makes me wonder if my exgf who is very attractive by any mans standard can love an obese unattractive man what does that say about me ? i must be far more unattractive...

will she cheat,lie,sext,abuse on him ? or was it just me ? how much of a difference will his wealth make ?

There's another thread that discusses exactly this, about if physical attractions really matter or not.

Bottom line from that thread is that attachment is the primary target for someone with pwBPD. It makes sense since it's one of the etiologies of their disease (the lack of attachment). If anything if a replacement lasts longer it's likely that they're able to provide an attachment for longer due to weak personal boundaries and sense of self


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: antelope on August 03, 2015, 06:59:02 PM
Will she be the same way with the next guy?

why would she be different with the next guy? 

think about your journey to here... .think about all the reading, learning, and growing you've done in the aftermath of the breakup, and how arduous and long of a task that has been... .

think about how different your perspective is now about her, your life, who you were, and who you are now... .

think about all the personal inventory you've taken, all the crying, bargaining, anger, fear etc you've allowed yourself to experience... .

what has she done?

has she ever come up for air, or has she always been at least neck deep in a relationship?

has she ever shown you true introspection and remorse over her previous errors in relationships?

how many countless times have her words and actions been in completely different places?

if you have established this is a pattern with her, how entrenched are those behaviors now as an adult?

has she ever even gotten her feet wet in therapy, and if so, has she implemented any of the insight gained from those sessions?

--change nothing, and nothing changes--

^that is what you need to cling to, b/c that is the brutal truth... .

this is who they were before you met them, this is who they were when you were with them, and unless they go through intense personal battles like you have, then this is who she will be in the next relationship, and every one after that


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: rotiroti on August 03, 2015, 07:15:08 PM
Excerpt
--change nothing, and nothing changes--

Fantastic post antelope! And to continue antelope's message of moving forward with life, if your partner lasts longer or shorter with the replacement shouldn't even matter. They're out of our lives now and hopefully we'll have learned to respect ourselves and to be able to recognize the redflags. Both in ourselves and others.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: rotiroti on August 03, 2015, 07:15:44 PM


Excerpt
--change nothing, and nothing changes--

Fantastic post antelope! And to continue antelope's message of moving forward with life, if your partner lasts longer or shorter with the replacement shouldn't even matter. They're out of our lives now and hopefully we'll have learned to respect ourselves not to yearn for abuse and to be able to recognize the redflags. Both in ourselves and others.



Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 03, 2015, 07:39:31 PM
has she ever come up for air, or has she always been at least neck deep in a relationship?

always in relationships... she has branch swung from one to another since leaving her one and only long term relationship that lasted 15 years

has she ever shown you true introspection and remorse over her previous errors in relationships?

never and always blamed the previous partners... i got no apology,no remorse or regrets,no empathy

how many countless times have her words and actions been in completely different places?

after the honeymoon at around 12 months her actions did not meet her words

if you have established this is a pattern with her, how entrenched are those behaviors now as an adult?

shes not an adult but a child trapped in adult body

has she ever even gotten her feet wet in therapy, and if so, has she implemented any of the insight gained from those sessions?

never and although her words to me upon breaking up and before i learned of her cheating were

"im dissapointed in myself and i dont know whats wrong with me" she did nothing to fix herself except to jump imeadiately into new relationship


this is who they were before you met them, this is who they were when you were with them, and unless they go through intense personal battles like you have, then this is who she will be in the next relationship, and every one after that

this i what i need to believe but most likely wont till my replacement fails... he is the perfect fit... he drinks,parties,is wealthy so can afford constant date nights,vacations,gifts,has a larger social circle some of which are in common with her,he is just as untidy and wont care if she wont help with chores cause he doesnt do them either,he wont care if she wont contribute financialy cause he is wealthy and doesnt need her to meet him half way and he will worship her for eternity because she is very beautiful and she knows this

i cant see her abusing him it would be like killing the golden goose... she said "your not worth the finanacial convienience" but he is despite his physical appearance she will stay with him so long as he does what hes told and continues to idolize her... if she gets bored she can always have others on the side without consequence cause like me he will never know and if he did he wont leave her she is the most beautiful women hes had or will ever have

i couldnt i wanted more than she had to offer which was just Sex


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: apollotech on August 03, 2015, 08:27:08 PM
this i what i need to believe but most likely wont till my replacement fails.

Lostone,

I am lost here Lostone, why are you basing your beliefs on the outcome of her new relationship? This sounds to me like your own personal self-esteem/self-worth issue, neither of which are tied to anyone else on the planet. Those are intrinsic to one's self.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 03, 2015, 08:47:11 PM
this i what i need to believe but most likely wont till my replacement fails.

Lostone,

I am lost here Lostone, why are you basing your beliefs on the outcome of her new relationship? This sounds to me like your own personal self-esteem/self-worth issue, neither of which are tied to anyone else on the planet. Those are intrinsic to one's self.

SELF WORTH SHOT  : This is why

your not worth the financial convienience

your going to grow to be a short fat old man

your hobbiy is an embarrasement

your fault i didnt orgasm boy did i cop it when she didnt

dont you want to look beautiful for your girlfriend ( insisting i hit gym)

you dont understand woman

you will never find one as beautiful as me to love you

i could go on but this was the worst of it... add to this my repalcement is a man i know,a drinker,unhealthy,older,less attractive physicaly... the way i see it if a beautiful woman finds him more attractive than me then what other woman is going to want me




Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: disorderedsociety on August 03, 2015, 08:49:54 PM
this i what i need to believe but most likely wont till my replacement fails.

Lostone,

I am lost here Lostone, why are you basing your beliefs on the outcome of her new relationship? This sounds to me like your own personal self-esteem/self-worth issue, neither of which are tied to anyone else on the planet. Those are intrinsic to one's self.

SELF WORTH SHOT  : This is why

your not worth the financial convienience

your going to grow to be a short fat old man

your hobbiy is an embarrasement

your fault i didnt orgasm boy did i cop it when she didnt

dont you want to look beautiful for your girlfriend ( insisting i hit gym)

you dont understand woman

you will never find one as beautiful as me to love you

i could go on but this was the worst of it... add to this my repalcement is a man i know,a drinker,unhealthy,older,less attractive physicaly... the way i see it if a beautiful woman finds him more attractive than me then what other woman is going to want me

Um... This may sound like a cop out in your depressed state but the most attractive people, hands down, are the ones who love themselves. It radiates.

Does a BPD affected person love themselves? Far from it

Does someone who willingly buys into their sh-t? No.

Do you? Enough to not go back yeah?


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 03, 2015, 08:56:49 PM
this i what i need to believe but most likely wont till my replacement fails.

Lostone,

I am lost here Lostone, why are you basing your beliefs on the outcome of her new relationship? This sounds to me like your own personal self-esteem/self-worth issue, neither of which are tied to anyone else on the planet. Those are intrinsic to one's self.

SELF WORTH SHOT  : This is why

your not worth the financial convienience

your going to grow to be a short fat old man

your hobbiy is an embarrasement

your fault i didnt orgasm boy did i cop it when she didnt

dont you want to look beautiful for your girlfriend ( insisting i hit gym)

you dont understand woman

you will never find one as beautiful as me to love you

i could go on but this was the worst of it... add to this my repalcement is a man i know,a drinker,unhealthy,older,less attractive physicaly... the way i see it if a beautiful woman finds him more attractive than me then what other woman is going to want me

Um... This may sound like a cop out in your depressed state but the most attractive people, hands down, are the ones who love themselves. It radiates.

Does a BPD affected person love themselves? Far from it

Does someone who willingly buys into their sh-t? No.

Do you? Enough to not go back yeah?

Theres no going back been NC for a year and that wont change ever... i do love myself just not sure that a woman would cause of the ___ my ex pulled... hell i dont even know if she is BPD or just an abusive alcoholic.

i feel that my lack of $$,large social circle and lack of drinking/partying may inhibit my worth to woman as they seem to all want a man to provide for them with little or no return or something transactional


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: apollotech on August 03, 2015, 10:46:36 PM
Hi Lostone,

I don't know what your financial situation is or what medical services are offered in your area, but it might benefit you to seek the help of a therapist to work through some of your thoughts/feelings on this matter. Are you seening a T, or is that a possibility?


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 03, 2015, 10:58:47 PM
Hi Lostone,

I don't know what your financial situation is or what medical services are offered in your area, but it might benefit you to seek the help of a therapist to work through some of your thoughts/feelings on this matter. Are you seening a T, or is that a possibility?

seeing a T but its not helping i still feel responsible for triggering the abuse for not being like my replacement


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: apollotech on August 03, 2015, 11:51:18 PM
Hi Lostone,

I don't know what your financial situation is or what medical services are offered in your area, but it might benefit you to seek the help of a therapist to work through some of your thoughts/feelings on this matter. Are you seening a T, or is that a possibility?

seeing a T but its not helping i still feel responsible for triggering the abuse for not being like my replacement

Again, I don't know your situation, but if you're not getting results with this T, have you considered moving to a different T? How long have you been with this T? Is he/she qualified to address your issues?


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 04, 2015, 12:16:12 AM
Hi Lostone,

I don't know what your financial situation is or what medical services are offered in your area, but it might benefit you to seek the help of a therapist to work through some of your thoughts/feelings on this matter. Are you seening a T, or is that a possibility?

seeing a T but its not helping i still feel responsible for triggering the abuse for not being like my replacement

Again, I don't know your situation, but if you're not getting results with this T, have you considered moving to a different T? How long have you been with this T? Is he/she qualified to address your issues?

She is a freebie cause i can not afford a paid one i have no health cover... ive only been twice bout 3 hours all up and all she said was that by my description my ex is either a BPD/npd hybrid  or sociopath and that i have PTSD as a result of the abuse.

she has given me no tools to address the ruminating or self blame

ive read every article on PD during last 16 months since breakup and although my ex fits into alot of the descriptions and other NONS descriptions i still believe i was to clean and tidy,not entertaining enough,not wealthy enough,not dirty enough in bed,didnt drink enough basically not enough of what my replacement is... she wanted a drinking partner that tolerated her drunkeness,her and her childrens uncleanliness a man to idolize her without having anything to offer in return except for sex the only thing she excelled in but in the end she even took the sex away from me so i was left with nothing the relationship quickly disintergrated from their.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: enlighten me on August 04, 2015, 08:00:51 AM
Lostone we have all had these feelings of selfworth.

what you need to understand is its not about physical or financial need. Its about getting their fix.  They need to feel that they are the most special person on the planet. They want to be worshipped. When a pwBPD meets someone all they see is the potential in that person. Once the cracks show they feel conned. It doesnt matter how chilled or controlling the replacement is eventually they will start to resent them. They may not leave them but they will not be truely happy as they are seeking someone that doesnt exist.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 04, 2015, 06:04:53 PM
Lostone we have all had these feelings of selfworth.

what you need to understand is its not about physical or financial need. Its about getting their fix.  They need to feel that they are the most special person on the planet. They want to be worshipped. When a pwBPD meets someone all they see is the potential in that person. Once the cracks show they feel conned. It doesnt matter how chilled or controlling the replacement is eventually they will start to resent them. They may not leave them but they will not be truely happy as they are seeking someone that doesnt exist.

If it were not physical nor financial why would she say

"your not worth the financial convienience"

"your going to grow to be a short fat old man'   now in r/s with a much taller fatter older man ? worse he was a man i knew and trusted around my girl...






Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: borderdude on August 04, 2015, 06:19:00 PM
While I put strong boundaries, did not attempted to fix her and the RS in any professional ways and thereby ended my RS, I still think that my exBPD girlfriend will find this special person witch is able to fix everything and they live happily ever after. How much reality I shall put into my thinking model I am unsure. I can say with a high probability she will not understand that she got any imperfections, always looking for a RS she can escape into, if he makes an impact he got to be some super psychologist.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: rotiroti on August 04, 2015, 06:28:20 PM
Lostone we have all had these feelings of selfworth.

what you need to understand is its not about physical or financial need. Its about getting their fix.  They need to feel that they are the most special person on the planet. They want to be worshipped. When a pwBPD meets someone all they see is the potential in that person. Once the cracks show they feel conned. It doesnt matter how chilled or controlling the replacement is eventually they will start to resent them. They may not leave them but they will not be truely happy as they are seeking someone that doesnt exist.

If it were not physical nor financial why would she say

"your not worth the financial convienience"

"your going to grow to be a short fat old man'   now in r/s with a much taller fatter older man ? worse he was a man i knew and trusted around my girl...


pwBPD can be very intuitive and know what to say to really push your buttons.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: enlighten me on August 05, 2015, 01:10:48 AM
I agree with rotiroti that they know exactly what hurts us. Wgen did she say these things? Could it be towards the end when she had replacement lined up? If so there could be more to her words than just hurting you.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Kelly123 on August 05, 2015, 01:22:50 AM
I feel well equiped to get in on this topic. My BF likes to think his previous relationships were better and that its just me that's causing trouble in the relationship but I know better. His first long term gf is so clingy and can't leave him alone even after all these years and I can see he must have done a real number on her. In addition to that he cheated on me multiple times with both her and another ex gf. When I confronted her she gave me a very patronising unsympathetic response that "it was the way he's always been and I should accept it" I remember being dumbfounded and shocked not from the cheating but from the fact that both these women escaped the toxic relationship but still willingly and deviously went back there! Even before the relationships I can see the patterns in his childhood with behavioural issues at school. I don't think the pattern ever stops it just shows itself at different stages


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 05, 2015, 01:42:17 AM
I agree with rotiroti that they know exactly what hurts us. Wgen did she say these things? Could it be towards the end when she had replacement lined up? If so there could be more to her words than just hurting you.

mostly while drunk during our final 2 years and more pronounced towards end when yes she had lined up the 4 ... particularly after id caught her sexting pics and bdrm secrets to an ex 3mnths before break... i went nuts but forgave her cause she was drunk again... tried to discuss why the sext but she shut me down sayin it was a drunk mistake and that she loved me and wouldnt do it again... what i didnt know was she was also physically cheating with another... so she was trying to recycle and find a new supply at same time.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Clearmind on August 05, 2015, 06:55:24 AM
"Please remind me patterns repeat"

I recall posting something very similar 4 years back.

In hindsight now that statement translates to "was it my fault?"

So the questions I pose:

In what way do you think the failing of this relationship was solely you're fault?

What could you have done differently?

What do you miss about this relationship? What don't you miss?

What are 3 things that occurred in this relationship that really rocked you?

Can you be held responsible for someone else's actions?


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: apollotech on August 05, 2015, 01:41:09 PM
I agree with rotiroti that they know exactly what hurts us. Wgen did she say these things? Could it be towards the end when she had replacement lined up? If so there could be more to her words than just hurting you.

mostly while drunk during our final 2 years and more pronounced towards end when yes she had lined up the 4 ... particularly after id caught her sexting pics and bdrm secrets to an ex 3mnths before break... i went nuts but forgave her cause she was drunk again... tried to discuss why the sext but she shut me down sayin it was a drunk mistake and that she loved me and wouldnt do it again... what i didnt know was she was also physically cheating with another... so she was trying to recycle and find a new supply at same time.

Lostone,

You seem to not be able to recognize your self-worth unless it is derived from another. I don't agree with your premise, but let's try to work with it. She is producing nothing but negative self-worth for you. So, let's get the focus off of her and onto someone else.

This is my suggestion to accomplish that: do volunteer work. Go to the local church, school, hospital, shelter, whatever, and volunteer. Go help someone that "needs" your help and will "appreciate" you for it. Don't think about it; don't make a big plan; go do it. Brother when you see that you have actually helped someone that was in need of help, that you, your actions, have made a difference in someone else's life, I think you'll begin to see your "own" worth as a person.

Very few of us ever get to see the "frits of our labor." Most of us only get to see the "monies of our labor" or the "material gains of our labor." Money and materiel items don't connect us to life. Go get involved in someone's life that needs you.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: enlighten me on August 05, 2015, 01:55:50 PM
Ive done a lot in my life. Ive been all over the world, ive flown a plane, scuba dived, had decent paying jobs. Im apparently not bad looking yet I still seek othrrs approval and take to heart anything negative.

Recently I realised I no longer care what my exs think of me. I realise that I have done and achieved more on my own than they ever have or will. Im kind hearted and well liked by my friends and family. I am now a happy single dad who isnt interested in putting myself out there as i no longer believe i need someone to complete me as im already complete.

Have a look at who you are. Im sure theres a lot more to you than the negativity your ex threw at you. Lets face it is anything a pwBPD says worth taking to heart as it changes with the wind.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: joeramabeme on August 05, 2015, 03:12:33 PM
Tincup, I think another and more relevant question to ask yourself is whether or not she displayed these patterns when you first met her.  Chances are the answer to that question is YES, even if you were not aware of them.  The inference is that she did not develop BPD from dating you!  Therefore, she was BPD before you met her and BPD afterwards too. 

Part of my inventory process has been to go back in my memories and think of any  red-flag that I saw.  There were a few and I easily dismissed them.  But in the context of my new knowledge, I can see what they were saying now.

Hang in there.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Remiman on August 05, 2015, 03:33:54 PM
Ive done a lot in my life. Ive been all over the world, ive flown a plane, scuba dived, had decent paying jobs. Im apparently not bad looking yet I still seek othrrs approval and take to heart anything negative.

Recently I realised I no longer care what my exs think of me. I realise that I have done and achieved more on my own than they ever have or will. Im kind hearted and well liked by my friends and family. I am now a happy single dad who isnt interested in putting myself out there as i no longer believe i need someone to complete me as im already complete.

Have a look at who you are. Im sure theres a lot more to you than the negativity your ex threw at you. Lets face it is anything a pwBPD says worth taking to heart as it changes with the wind.

I know that's what I need to aim for - then I'm sure everything would fall into place by itself (I.e. New relationship). Hard to keep that in mind though


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 05, 2015, 05:14:47 PM
Tincup, I think another and more relevant question to ask yourself is whether or not she displayed these patterns when you first met her.  Chances are the answer to that question is YES, even if you were not aware of them.  The inference is that she did not develop BPD from dating you!  Therefore, she was BPD before you met her and BPD afterwards too. 

Part of my inventory process has been to go back in my memories and think of any  red-flag that I saw.  There were a few and I easily dismissed them.  But in the context of my new knowledge, I can see what they were saying now.

Hang in there.

The drunkeness and verbal abuse wasn't there in beginning but there were signs of hyper sexuality,prosmiscuity... Many partners before me most short term,casual and one night...

Untidy home, her kid hated me on sight... .love bombing... I had no idea then about pd but the prosmiscuity shoulda been enough to send me running... truth is she made me believe I was the one with all the bombing


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 05, 2015, 05:23:40 PM
"Please remind me patterns repeat"

I recall posting something very similar 4 years back.

In hindsight now that statement translates to "was it my fault?"

So the questions I pose:

In what way do you think the failing of this relationship was solely you're fault?

SHE GOT BORED BOTH IN AND OUT OF BEDROOM,SHOULDA BEEN MORE ENTERTAINING,NOT STOP DRINKING,LESS CLEAN & TIDY,SPENT $$ ON HER & NOT MY HOBBY,TOLERATED HER KIDS HATRED FOR ME,

What could you have done differently?

NOT GONE OUT WITH HER IN FIRST PLACE

What do you miss about this relationship? What don't you miss?

MISS THE GIRL SHE PRETENED TO BE,DONT MISS THE ABUSE

What are 3 things that occurred in this relationship that really rocked you?

CHEATING,LYING,SEXTING,VERBAL ABUSE,DRUNKENESS

Can you be held responsible for someone else's actions?

NO BUT ARE WE RESPONSIBLE FOR DRIVING SOMEONE TO THOSE ACTIONS ?



Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Clearmind on August 06, 2015, 01:32:15 AM
Lost.

Thank you!

Borderlines fear intimacy. Sex is an act and does not involve any intimacy. Often in the beginning we mistaken the intensity of sex as being intimacy - being in tune and in sync with the other person. This is not your fault.

Missing someone for who you thought they were often stems from us (me) listening to the words and not the actions. A massive lesson for me has to be look at what someone does not what they say. We can buildup lots of fantasy thoughts rather than see the reality of a situation.

We're not responsible for others peoples actions. We can take responsibility for our own.  So part of the solution to our healing is digging deep and asking ourselves

1) why did we stay despite all the red flags?



Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Lostone1314 on August 06, 2015, 02:11:45 AM
Most welcome Clearmind


1) why did we stay despite all the red flags?

easy i loved the woman i believed she was and could be and i was nearing 50 and she always said at times when i discussed breaking up that i would never find another to love me  ... so i feared living my life alone till death and still do... .its not that i cannot live alone i can but i dont want to and @50 im running out of time i watch as all my friends/family have paired off and im the last with only 2 broken LT r/s ending in infidelity and one s/t ending due to imcompatiability ive lost hope in fulfilling my dream


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: enlighten me on August 06, 2015, 03:27:30 AM
Lost

I to feared being on my own. This is what led me to ignore the red flags with my ex wife and then my exgf. After being with my exgf i have come to terms with the fact i dont need anyone else to make me happy. That comes from within. I like going to bed and getting up when i want to. I like watching what i want to watch and listening to my music. I like eating when and whati want. All the stress of not having to please anyone but myself has gone. Yes it may sound selfish but trying to please others has taken its toll on me so now im having some me time.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: Clearmind on August 06, 2015, 05:05:57 AM
Most welcome Clearmind


1) why did we stay despite all the red flags?

easy i loved the woman i believed she was and could be and i was nearing 50 and she always said at times when i discussed breaking up that i would never find another to love me  ... so i feared living my life alone till death and still do... .its not that i cannot live alone i can but i dont want to and @50 im running out of time i watch as all my friends/family have paired off and im the last with only 2 broken LT r/s ending in infidelity and one s/t ending due to imcompatiability ive lost hope in fulfilling my dream

Lost! I hear you. When I look back much of my fear was related to be alone. I feared I had little without my ex. The drama filled a void that I had for a long time. Oddly enough he couldn't make me happy. It took this jolt of electricity, that is BPD to awaken me to the fact that if happiness came from within then it would attract like minded people and I'm now repelled by dysfunction.

Dysfunction lulls us into a false sense of security. It's drama filled and addictive. It's also short lived because any relationship that is built on shakey foundations is destined to head south.

You my friend dodged a bullet. 50 is young and you have much to look forward to. Heal from this relationship and the things that brought to where you are, heal from those things that helped you to attach to a Borserline. Only then will you truly find a compatible mate who treats you with the respect you deserve.


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: antelope on August 06, 2015, 07:13:00 AM
this i what i need to believe but most likely wont till my replacement fails... he is the perfect fit...

^^'perfect fit' ... .for a dysfunctional person?  is this something you strive for?  to complement her and her disorder?  to enable her?  to tolerate her?

... .or is it something you want b/c you want to rescue her disorder?

right after the breakup, we get the idea cemented in our heads that we failed... .I did too... .

but what are we failing at?  as I asked before, is it that we failed at tolerating their recklessness and manipulation, or is it that we failed at rescuing them from it?  either way, how is this a healthy goal for you?





Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: antelope on August 06, 2015, 07:13:28 AM
this i what i need to believe but most likely wont till my replacement fails... he is the perfect fit...

^^'perfect fit' ... .for a dysfunctional person?  is this something you strive for?  to complement her and her disorder?  to enable her?  to tolerate her?

... .or is it something you want b/c you want to rescue her from her disorder?

right after the breakup, we get the idea cemented in our heads that we failed... .I did too... .

but what are we failing at?  as I asked before, is it that we failed at tolerating their recklessness and manipulation, or is it that we failed at rescuing them from it?  either way, how is this a healthy goal for you?




Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: antelope on August 06, 2015, 07:14:28 AM
this i what i need to believe but most likely wont till my replacement fails... he is the perfect fit...

^^'perfect fit' ... .for a dysfunctional person?  is this something you strive for?  to complement her and her disorder?  to enable her?  to tolerate her?

... .or is it something you want b/c you want to rescue her from her disorder?

right after the breakup, we get the idea cemented in our heads that we failed... .I did too... .

but what are we failing at?  as I asked before, is it that we failed at tolerating their recklessness and manipulation, or is it that we failed at rescuing them from it?  either way, how is this a healthy goal for you?



^^sorry double post


Title: Re: Please remind me that patterns repeat
Post by: EaglesJuju on August 06, 2015, 07:20:40 AM
*mod*


This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .