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For 3 months I really thought I found the one for me. But the last few weeks have gone totally upside down. Let me start. 2 weeks ago my ex was trying to break up with me. She was blaming me for being clingy and this and that. I eventually was able to to talk her down and got to the root of the problem. She was highly stressed out and work and was drained from working two departments while being trained in one and working in the other. So she wanted to break up with me because of nothing. So of course she felt bad and she was saying things like," I hate myself for my behavior. I don't know why I always push you away. I just don't want to ruin you life  but I feel like I ruin everyone's lives. I should've never broken up with you. I'm such an imbecile. She also said, "Why would I risk it... .Why would I give up on the love of my life? What's wrong with me? So anyways she came down the next day to apologize and we made thing good again. She later sent me this text, " This is why I always try to break up. Because I'm a bad person, and I do this for an undetermined amount of time with everyone I'm close with until I finally feel safe. And then it stops. But until then I can't control this. Believe me, if I did. I would've stopped years ago... .Because I have lost SO MANY people in my life because of this behavior. So I hate myself! Believe me! I don't want to do this to you!

I go and see her that Saturday and we go to a drive in movie for 5-6 hrs and I stay the night. After we got back from the movies she gave me letters that were nicely tied together. There were 33 letters. She said it took her 2 weeks to make. They said,"Open when... .we fight, sad, hopeful for the future etc. They most talked about our future together, how much she loves me, if she wants to break up its a mistake, having children and getting married one day. But there was one letter that said,"Open when... .I push you away. On the back of this envelope it said Open only if necessary. It will change everything. Again only open if 100% sure. Please. So after I got home Sunday morning from her place I opened it. It stated that she has Borderline Personality Disorder. I told her that I read it. She said she need to step away and breathe. So I let her go for awhile. I got ahold of her a few hours later and everything seemed fine. I apologize for reading the letter and told her I loved her. She sent a text back say she loved me no matter what too!

So here is where the bomb went off. 5 hours letter I receive this text out of the blue. (My name). I don't want to be with you anymore. This is it. My final decision. Please don't try and change my mind. Don't call me. Don't call my friends. Don't show up at my house. Don't show up at my work. This will be the last time I contacted you. I will mail you your things, and your sisters thing. Again, DO NOT CONTACT ME. Off course now I have no freaking idea whats happening.

My mom receives a text from her (they were kinda close) saying I need to stop harassing her, her friends and family else she will have a restraining order put on me. She said she has been trying to get away from my obsessive behavior and won't be manipulated by me anymore by saying ill hurt myself. The only thing true here is I have said I would hurt myself and I know I'm wrong for that. She also says she feels unsafe. As I state above we spent 5 hrs at the movies and I spent the night with her. She can't be afraid of me write?

Okay so know you know the story. I know I'm crazy for saying this but I still want her back. I want to give her one last chance. Do you guys think she will contact me with the information I gave you guys. Since she is aware of her issue I feel we have a chance to make this work. I'm currently on week 2 of the break up and on day 5 of NO CONTACT. Can she see me white again without going out and dating someone. I don't think she is that type. She was saying to her friend that she just want to be alone forever. She is really down on herself. I think she broke up with me for these reasons besides her BPD. 1. I read the letter. 2. She wants to protect me from herself. 3. She doesn't feel like she deserves my love.

Hi Willis32,

*welcome*

To start, take a look at the lessons to the right off this board. Her admission of BPD gives you a baseline on understanding the core issues which drive her behaviors. Next,  take what she said about a restraining order seriously.  Without judging whether this is valid or not,  her feelings and the threat is.  We've had members get into legal trouble by ignoring this.  There are restraining orders associated with both relationships either side of the one I had with the mother of our kids.  

You know,  I would have opened the letter,  too. You told her.  What's done is done.  Think of it as a tar baby,  and test.  Putting a chocolate cake in front of a 6 year old,  trekking them not to touch it,  and leaving the room for half an hour

My ex,  though not diagnosed with BPD, said some similar things you related.  It's a challenge,  the push-pull (see here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62033.0) for more).

pwBPD are often driven by emotions they can't control (see the first lesson on the Improving Board to learn more). Whatever she feels is her reality at the time.  My ex also used to say that she thought she wanted to become a nun at one point,  a hermit.  That changed.  Then it changed again.  

I'd say that your last three points are an accurate 30,000 ft view of the situation. You can't take back #1, but you may be able to work with the last two of she contacts you. Read the lessons and understand how to validate.  Be careful,  however,  given the RO threat. That's a serious boundary that she's telegraphing.

Thank you Turkish. There were times in the relationship she would question it. Like she would ask me are you sure you want to be with me and always wanted reassurance. I did make a few mistakes after the break up. I did try to contact her and her family. She told me I was INSANE and I wasn't doing a good job of not getting a restraining order. She told me to leave her the HELL alone and if I didn't stop that her family would have the police called. Her dad called me last Saturday and told me to stop making contact and if he heard anything else I would be hearing from the cops. So since then I have stopped. Have I ruined any chance of getting back with her? She also hasn't returned my thing to me like she said. Can I read anything into that? I miss her so much and have hope from what we had, the contents of the letter and the fact she I aware of her disorder and says she does this for a undetermined amount of time. I need help guys.

Also I should add a few things. As soon as she broke up with me she blocked my phone number and Facebook. She did the same thing to my mother. Another fact that should be know is she is an Empath. She can feel other peoples feelings.

Regarding the empath thing,  pwBPD are often hyper attuned to the feelings of others, and can be aware of that which others miss at first glance.  That being said,  it is often seen through a the lens of their feelings,  and can result in misinterpretation on their side. 

About her family contacting you,  I'd take this very seriously.  We've had members have restraining orders served,  and their significant others violate it.  The member engages in contact,  thinking it's ok,  but it turns out to be trouble.  She's asserting a hard boundary here,  stopping short of legal action you don't want. 

What about the stuff though?  Is it critical that it's returned? 

Believe me I'm not going to make any contact with anyone. I'm going to wait and see what happens now. No the things she needs to give back aren't very important. I was referring to this as her having some control over me by not giving my stuff back. Just thinking thats what she's doing. Can she on day just see me as good again without having to go on dates and get a trigger that she misses me. I feel there's many things that could trigger her back to me because our relationship honestly was very good. She just lacks self confidence. I really hope she comes back. I've been educating myself and trying to make myself stronger for myself and us. She is worth it!

It could be,  and even might be likely,  that something could trust her to contact you.  If there isn't an actual RO against you,  then the ball will be in your court,  which is why I encourage you to digest the lessons and learn how to validate and not unintentionally trigger her core fears.  

Regarding the stuff,  hard to say.  Machiavelli wasn't BPD. It's more likely that it doesn't cross her mind.  On the flip side, my ex left a ton of stuff I thought was important to her.  She abandoned it,  including her journals.  At first I thought it might be her way of communicating with me passive aggressively,  but it was probably more due to Impulsivity.  She fled,  and it didn't cross jet mind. 

Should I just wait 3 weeks to 2 months before even consider making contact with her or should I just leave be and hope she contacts me. When things were good she wanted all the things I wanted. Kids, marriage; I mean everything. She is a very smart woman. The fact that she knows she lost a lot of people because of her behavior makes me think she might reach out to me once the dust settles. I feel there are triggers such as if she gets lonely, she goes on a date with someone and doesn't work out and thinking about her future. Such as having a family, living with someone and marriage. I pray she contacts me because I want to make this work. She deserves to have someone good in her life. She has had a horrible upbringing. She has mother who is like a mommy dearest, she was raped in high school and had an abusive fiancé. She always said I was too good to her and treated her like a queen. She said I was it and if not she would be alone forever.

This is hard to digest,  but the that's a hard boundary,  the threat of a RO. Waiting for her to contact you is the safest bet to keep you safe.  

I have no doubt that you're a decent guy.  The trouble many of us have is aligning our feelings to theirs, or assuming they think in the same way.  

Thank wolf. So you really think there's a real chance she contacts me in the future. I know nothing is for sure. I'm putting out a lot of positive vibes and hoping that she tries to reconnect with me. I hope she can naturally not see me as "black" anymore and see me as "white". I feel that if I get the chance I want to tell her I'll never abandon her and that I will tell her I'll never leave her. People with this disorder deserve to have love too! I think if I can get stronger emotionally her and I have a chance. I feel I'm the kind of guy is compassionate enough to helper. Idk if its true but maybe once she trusts me this won't happen again but I can't count on it.

There will be a lot of things that will need cleaned up if we decide to get back together. Our families, her and I and her possibly seeking help.

I am in agreement with Turkish on this.  She has set a hard boundary and you need to respect it.

In the meantime I suggest you learn as much about the disorder as you can.  Education on BPD and understanding what it will really take to even have a chance at a semi-stable relationship is what you need right now.  There are many excellent resources on this site that you should make use of (see right column).  Ask questions, read about other peoples issues ... .etc.  

If she should reach out to you then you will be prepared for the reality of what you face with open eyes not blind hope.  I operated on blind hope in my relationship for two years and it nearly destroyed me.  

Understand that "successful" relationships with a borderline will require both people to work on themselves.  She will not magically get better because you have changed your behavior and walking on egg shells is not a solution.  Without a serious commitment on her part to address her disorder and learn how to manage it nothing will change.  Even if she takes that step and is able to sustain the work on herself in a meaningful way it will still be hard.  This is something you need to be crystal clear on and prepared for if she should express a desire to reconcile.

Worth noting.  My ex said many of the same things to me and while she may have believed what she was saying in that moment, that moment was as far as it went.  

I totally understand and I'm trying to educate myself as much as possible. Could you guys think of some scenarios where she might want to make contact. Can one day can a switch be turned on and she views me in a loving way again? I'm just curious if she can split me again and see me as good without having to go out and date. I don't see her dating right away. She broke up I think because I know she has her disorder and because she feels she should be alone. She doesn't want to ruin my life. She said she ruins everyones lives.

1. I will move on with my life and casually date.
2. Do you think even with damage she has caused and lies she has told to her family that she will still try and contact me.
3. I will be dating other women by this time, could this set her off if she finds out or if she tries to reconnect with me.

I'm just trying to prepare myself for whatever situation arises. I do want on last shot with her. Everyone I've talked to says she doesn't deserve me. I will date during the mean time. I don't feel Ill be ready for a relationship until the beginning of the year. If she does come back we wouldn't get back together immediately we would date first. She would have to earn herself back into my life. I'm a lot stronger now and will be even stronger if she makes an attempt to come back into my life.

Willis, if she is a BPDer, assuring her of your love and devotion is not sufficient.  In addition to her fear of abandonment, she also has a great fear of engulfment.  This combination of two fears puts you both in a lose/lose situation, no matter what you do -- until she undertakes intensive therapy.  The reason is that those two fears lie at opposite ends of the very same spectrum.

This means that, as you back away from one fear, you are drawing closer to triggering the other.  Specifically, as you draw close to assure her of your love, she will soon feel engulfed and suffocated by the intimacy.  Granted, a BPDer typically craves intimacy like nearly every other adult.  Yet, because a BPDer has a very fragile weak sense of self identity, she cannot tolerate intimacy for very long.  She will start feeling controlled by you, like she is losing herself inside your strong personality.  

Indeed, she may even feel like her weak self identity is evaporating into thin air.  She therefore will push you away by creating a fight over nothing.  Importantly, the accusation coming out of her mouth will originate from her subconscious, which is projecting the hurtful feelings onto you.  At a conscious level, she will be absolutely convinced that projection -- i.e., that allegation -- is true.

Yet, as you back off to give her breathing space, you will start triggering her great fear of abandonment, causing her to start love bombing you again at some point. The result is that BPDer relationships typically exhibit a repeating cycle of push-away and pull-back.  For 15 years, I tried to break that cycle by finding the midpoints position -- not too far away and not too close -- so I could avoid triggering my BPDer exW's two fears.  And I took her to weekly sessions with six psychologists and three MCs.  The result is that I learned that this Goldilocks position simply does not exist in an untreated BPDer.

Moreover, I also learned that such a person is incapable of trusting you for any extended period.  Because trust is the foundation on which all close relationships must be built, there is simply no foundation on which to build a lasting relationship with an untreated BPDer.  This is why it is important for her to work hard on addressing her issues in therapy (e.g., DBT or CBT).

Thank you so very much! I sent her one last message and I know it was risky. I told her I was sorry, that I'm going to start dating other women, that I wished her the best, told her I won't contact her again and told her goodbye using the nickname I gave her.

I feel that if I stay way she will try and comeback because we had good chemistry and she isn't the type to lie and sleep around. She broke up with me shortly before her birthday, so she isn't money hungry either. I just think she needs to recalibrate herself. She has done a lot of damage on both sides of our families. I wonder if that will be a factor if she tries to come back. But she told me once she couldn't wait for her family to move even farther away. She has a relationship with her family but they aren't close.

That might be true, but many BPDs are manipulative and deceptive. They also tend to be very promiscuous and are expert at hiding their affairs.

I try not to think about stuff like that because I'm not with her anymore. I was wondering since I told her that I'm starting to date again that might trigger something in her. I'm trying to get her back to the middle of the spectrum where' she starts wanting me again. She's on the too close to me side of things right now

Trying to be in the "middle" with a BPD is not sustainable, but can work short term. I thought I could do what you are doing too. You might want to really look at the whole situation. Is it the way you feel around her that you're in love with? She's triggering these feelings that already exist in you - she's not the cause of them!

As other have respectfully suggested, I would not make any sort of contact whatsoever with and decide how/if you'll respond to her should she contact you.  Mine had me madly in love, then she posted passive agressive messages clearly aimed at me, spoke of wanting to get back with her ten year olds father, he told her he wasn't interested, we kind of got back in a relationship, she then confessed feelings for another man,  unfriended me on Facebook without warning, smeared me with her family (sounding a little familiar?) acussed me of conspiring against her and then we basically stopped contact with me, reunited with her kids dad. We ended up speaking after my badmouthing of her got back to her. Weeks after that she texted me wanting to come over and guess what... .we reunited and had sex. The relationship went on behind her other man's back. Then a few weeks later the craziness happened and she dissapeared and moved in with a young co-worker. She's now in a relationship with that girl mom even though she was "super straight" before. I'm at the point now that I don't want her back.

I really love this woman! I went on a date last night and all I could do is think of her when I was doing stuff with this other girl. I just want her to comeback and we can go from there. She has on last shot with me. Today is a rough day though. Today is her 21st birthday

I would personally not say something like "I'll never leave her" to any girlfriend BPD or not. That may come across as a little creepy or possessive, especially with younger women. It would also likely make your ex think that you are starting to smother her and she'll vanish from your life very quickly.

Willis, you might also want to keep in mind that you've only known this woman for a few months and in that short time you have endured both considerable drama and abusive behavior from this woman, yet you're posting here and it seems as if you are simply looking for reassurance that she may one day come back and the good news (if you want to call it that) is that there is a good chance she might, but the odds of the relationship being stable and happy are very low. I can't say what will happen with your ex, but in my case, which sounds almost identical to your situation up to our first break up, she DID come back and we ended up having amazing sex, laughing, having little conflict this time. I think a lot of it was that I spent dozens of hours reading all I could about BPD relationships and working on my own possible personality disorder: NPD. Despite all of my efforts she started behaving oddly and vanishing again after not having any significant contact with her for weeks, I find out by temporarily unblocking her on Facebook that she now in an open and public first time (as far as I know! :D ) Lesbian relationship at the age of 48. I know now the reality and it's bleak: If I stay with this woman this is what it will be like: intermitent sex/affection, starting a smear campaign against me, much irrational conflict and blame, weeks/months/years of not seeing her and then her popping up and believe me she'll have many sexual partners that I will never know about.  I'm opting out of this relationship and cutting off all contact with this person her friends and her family.  I don't mean in anyway to sound harsh, but even if you educate yourself on BPD, which it doesn't seem you have done up until this point, she seeks therapy on her own with some support and you have the best intentions, the likelyhood will be that this (at best) will be an on again/off again thing. The odds are very high that your ex is already with someone and probably had them lined up before they made the decision to break up with you. You really need to educate yourself on the disorder. That's the best thing to gain clarity for you, in my opinion.

Let's be careful not to paint all pwBPD with the same brush. Each person and situation is unique.

BPD is a spectrum disorder and not everyone falls on the same place in the spectrum. Some pwBPD have stronger traits than others (and some have none of the specific traits even).

For some, promiscuity and infidelity is part of their lives. For others, the fear of abandonment is so great that they would not dare risk it.

Very interesting comment.  Meili, if you can, please provide a link pointing to a professional article espousing this view that a pwBPD may exhibit "none of the specific traits."  I would sure like to read about it.  As you know, BPD traits are simply behavioral symptoms that describe the typical behaviors exhibited by someone having the underlying disorder.  

Significantly, none of those BPD traits describe any characteristic of the disorder itself.  Indeed, nobody on the planet has yet proven to a certainty what it is that actually causes BPD, i.e., causes the full-blown disorder.  Until that underlying disorder is identified, BPD diagnosis will continue to be based entirely on the display of BPD behavioral traits.  Hence, if these behaviors are entirely missing -- i.e., the person exhibits "none of the traits" as you say -- I cannot imagine how anyone could identify that person as a pwBPD.

I certainly didn't paint anyone with the same brush, if you are referencing me. I just accurately pointed that certain actions are disproportionately represented in BPDs than in the general population. Some don't engage in promiscuity as a coping mechanism, but it's far more prevelant. The ones who don't tend to be the exceptions not the rule.

I've never heard of a BPD exhibiting none of the behavioral symptoms.

I'm almost certain she didn't cheat on me. The last time we were together she asked me if it was okay if a guy came over to watch a show with us. She hadn't seen him in two years and he was in town. She said they were watching the same Netflix show and want to watch a few episodes together. I said that was. Then it didn't work out, because her and I went to the movies by ourselves. She asked me if it was okay if he came over Sunday instead and wanted to make sure if I was okay with it. So I'm not really concerned with her possibly cheating on me. I still think she is single and wants to be single. She doesn't want to hurt anyone. Remember guys she broke up with once I found out about her disorder. Thats it. Even when we first met on an online dating site she even said she was looking for a serious relationship. She wanted to someone who was focusing on the long term and not on the short term. She said it was rare to find a guy who has there ___ together and wants something serious. Also, she dated a couple guys before me. They were a couple date each at the most and they fizzled out. The she found me. So she does have standard and is looking for the one. I personally think she just wants to alone for awhile. Also she doesn't want to hurt me. I believe once she is coming back to her center she will realize what she has done. She is aware of her disorder and that her behavior has caused her to lose many people in her life. She even said she didn't want to do this to me, but it takes her awhile to trust and then it stops.

This in a nutshell is why I still have hope once the dust settles she will come back.

My opinion - If she has the disorder, she'll not want to be alone except when she's overwhelmed, scared or anxious, which (sadly) will be about half the time. She feels emotions at a higher 'volume' than most and many defense mechanisms, including the natural and (usually) normal fear of abandonment, are amplified. Unfortunately the paradox is that unlike 'normal' relationships where the initial and intense early attraction stops being the continual focus as you develop a deeper emotional bond in the weeks, months and years that follow. With a BPD lover, you will start to settle in the relationship and she'll take you're being more relaxed and perhaps contacting her less and she will view this as disinterest and possibly fear that you are planning to leave. She'll then rage, but since you didn't even see this coming, you'll be convinced that you actually did something terrible to her. It must be your faults since she's so amazing and perfect and start to appear needy, which she will then view you as smothering and lose interest. It's you who'll be up nights plotting ways to win her back, how to "accidentally" run into her, wondering if she's having sex with someone else, thinking just what you'd do and how it's going to be different this time. I can't say it enough Willis. You need to educate yourself as much as you can to protect your own emotional state. I just fear from reading your posts that you essentially just want people to tell you that she'll come back to you. I don't see you asking questions that stray too far from the ":)o you think she'll come back?" thing. 

Yes! It's a lose/lose I understand that. I just want to give it one last try. She has 2 strikes with me. I'm not going back without knowing this could be the end sooner than later. I definitely reached out a lot. But now I'm stopping for my own sanity and to protect myself. I believe at some point since now I'm giving her NC she wanted she will reach out in awhile. I believe this because she tried breaking up with me Monday of that same week (broke up Sunday night). She came down the next day to apologize and was upset for the rest of the week for what she did. These emotions I feel will arise once she wakes up

I can't speak at all for what will happen with your girl, that's not my place. My situation was very similar to what you are describing and I ended up using manipulative tactics to get her to come back that's how besotted I was (am?) She came back, but so did her problems. We had no big break up the second time around. She just stopped calling or texting except once or twice when she wanted weed. I also lent her $25 for cigarettes in August she has yet to repay. She has come by my store once or twice and we had pleasant enough interactions, but my finding she was now in a relationship with a woman was the straw that broke the camel's back as fare as we were concerened. I'm new to this board too and I don't know the protocol, but if you need/want to talk or txt, I'd be happy to do so.

I appreciate it brother! Maybe email would be better? I've read about all of the BPD ex girlfriends who pretty bad. But my ex really doesn't fit that bill. I honestly think she's all kinds of messed up. She always told me when she go into a "bad head space" that she needed to have time to clear her head. I honestly think she was doing a decent job of not ruining the relationship. She would let me know that she only could hangout for so long. She need to have her own time as well.

Couple of thoughts here:

One,  the threat of a restraining order is real.  We've had members end up with those not taking seriously this threat. In the best cases, a public smear campaign had ensued. Even without legal issues,  this results in a loss of reputation,  which might be priceless.  For this,  learn as much as you can about BPD and how to communicate so as not to be invalidating.  Learning to do this applies to 100% of our membership (myself included),  with a pwBPD of any relation.  

Two, dating to date should be for you,  not telegraphing that it's to elicit a response from her.  That's playing into her abandonment fears,  which gets you back to the same place and dynamic you were in: you serving her needs.  :)on't validate the invalid.  Sure,  if she comes back,  you receive something,  but the dynamic hasn't changed.  History will likely repeat itself unless you learn new tools.

Believe me I've been doing my research on BPD. I'm just trying to figure out how I can apply it if she comes back. I have a lot more understanding about it. I honestly don't think she is on the high end of the spectrum to be honest. She's aware of her disorder and she knows she hurt people. I have to remember she must be going through a lot too. I'm starting to bounce back. I feel if she came back in 2-3 I would be ready for whatever happens.

Regarding the smear campaign it has only affected her side and everyone on my side see whats really going on. I hope if we reconcile her and I can have a talk with her family and a few her close friends and clear things up.

Yes, that was poorly written and not what I meant for it to say.

What I meant was that not all of the traits need to be expressed for a person to be diagnosed with BPD.

To be considered BPD, a person must have at least five (or more) of the following traits:


Not all nine are required is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

No problem, Meili.  Thanks for the clarification.

I'm closing on a week (Sunday) without contacting her. I have feeling she thinks I will try to contact her again this week. I hope that when notices when the weeks start adding up that she misses me and realizes what really happened. I've been doing so much research to understand her disorder and to prepare myself if she comes back. I truly want to make this work and am willing to go to any lengths to have us have a happy ending. I'm sure right now she is going through a lot of pain and processing. It going to be 3 week since our break up on Sunday. I hope my silence will spark something in here. If we don't get back together, I at least want to have a conversation with her.

Willis, perhaps you're right about her having been stressed out at work.  Yet, if she exhibits strong BPD behaviors, that likely was not "the root of the problem" causing the the blowup just 3 months into your relationship.  Instead, it was the evaporation of her infatuation -- a process that usually starts 3 to 6 months into a BPDer relationship.

What happens, at the beginning of the relationship, is that a BPDer will idealize you so completely that she will be absolutely convinced you are the nearly perfect man who has arrived to save her from unhappiness.  This infatuation is so strong that it holds her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) completely at bay.  

This is why, with high functioning BPDers, it is very unlikely you will see any BPD traits during this courtship period.  Once her infatuation starts evaporating, however, both fears return and -- as I noted above -- you cannot avoid triggering them.  It therefore is not surprising that your BPDer exGF started pushing you away at the 3-month mark.  

What is surprising, however, is that she has such a high level of self awareness.  I've never seen any published figures on the incidence of self awareness in high functioning BPDers but my best guess that it is around 5%.  By its very nature, BPD is such a normal way of thinking for the BPDer that it is almost always is invisible to the person suffering from it (i.e., it is "egosyntonic".  

This absence of self awareness, then, is the biggest obstacle to treatment and is the primary reason BPD is so difficult to treat.  It therefore is a very good sign that your exGF exhibits such a high level of self awareness about her dysfunctional behavior.  By itself, however, her self awareness is insufficient for successful treatment.  The BPDer also must have the ego strength necessary for seeking treatment and working hard at it for many years.  

Based on my communications and discussions with HF BPDers online (all of whom are self aware), I believe that the vast majority of them lack that ego strength.  Hence, although I've communicated with over a hundred of them online -- where they complain about their disorder -- only a small share of those self aware BPDers have remained in therapy long enough to make a real difference in their behaviors.  I would be surprised if more than 1% of HF BPDers ever learn how to manage their disorder.  I therefore hope you are correct about her not being on the high end of the BPD spectrum.

I agree that it's not the root of the problem. The fact that after she tried breaking up with me the first time she continued to talk about future stuff was a good sign in my opinion. That after I talked her down that it was me, but it was because of work and life. I believe this is what happened this time, but on a larger scale. She broke up with me I believe because I now know about her condition. I really think it's that simple guys. She now doesn't trust me and wants to keep me away so I can't tell people her secret (in her mind).

The fact she knows about her behavior gives me hope, She wrote me this message after she tried breaking up with me the first time: "This is why I always try to break up. Because I'm a bad person, and I do this for undetermined
 amount of time with everyone I'm close with until I finally feel safe. And then it stops. But until then I can't control this. Believe me, if I did I would have stopped years ago... .Because I have lost SO Many people in my life because of this behavior. So I hate myself! Believe me! I don't want to do this to you!" Lastly she wrote me message during that week that said, "Thank you. I love you too. Thats why this hurts so much. I never want to be unkind to you. This was after she tried breaking up with me the first time and felt bad literally all week.

So this in a nutshell is why I'm hopeful. Obviously this shows at some point she will wake up and understand what damage she did. I believe all this give me hope that she will try to reconnect with me. She's not a liar. The time she has tried LYING were silly white lies that were easy to see. She asked me if it was okay if a guy friend could hand out with her. NOT A CHEATING THING. I think the longer I'm away she will wake up. It will be a week Sunday without any contact. She really does care about me when she is herself.

Like you said her self-awareness is the main reason I have hope. I know from reading I'm a co-dependent. I'm getting stronger by reading and understanding the disorder. Getting myself ready if she comes back and to heal myself completely. I've tried dating. I don't fear being alone. I truly truly love this woman and I'm ready to but my boundaries up and put in the hard work. She is worth it to me. No but you guys can understand me. No one around me thinks I should try to continue. She is worth it and I want to guide her as much as I can. I can't help her, but I can guide her. She has to do it for herself. If she contacts me there's 4 things that will need to be done: 1. We talk with her family. 2. Talk with my family. 3. We discuss getting her help. 4. We work on our relationship and set up boundaries and how we can work together with her disorder. I'm willing to make sacrifices for this relationship. I'm willing to go through the ups and down. I can't stand doing this over and over again, but if it is on a smaller scale I can handle it. On a smaller scale I consider questioning our relationship as being on the smaller scale. She did this 5 or 6 time during the relationship.

Self-awareness isn't enough.  It is easy to say something and another to do something.  My ex was also capable of self-awareness ... .but was not capable of sustaining that self-awareness and more importantly acting upon it.


What do you truly love?  Like I asked someone in another thread, dig deep here, list qualities that will lead to a long term healthy relationship ... .and not sex.

Then list all the things that will not lead to a long term healthy relationship.

When you do this think of 5, 10 years down the road.  Be honest with yourself here.  It doesn't do you any good to sugar coat reality and pretend she is something she is not.

C. Stein did your ex come back? I know things will be hard. If at the very least we have communication and we part ways I can live with that. She's got one last chance with me. I'm putting my plan together for whatever happens. I know there's that chance she might not come back, but I like to think positively think the odds are decent for that to happen.

My love honestly has little to do with sex. We wanted all of the same things for the future. We are different but have very much in common. The girl I was with for 3 month was amazing. Long term idk what would happen. Thats why if we were to get in contact thats one of the first few things that would need to be discussed.

Not in any way, shape or form.  In fact, she hasn't even acknowledged we even had a relationship or that she ever had any feelings for me.  I am certain I have been painted the blackest of black and I highly doubt that will ever change.  Once she turns her back on someone they are deleted from her life ... .forever.  Beyond that she prefers a fresh clean slate, someone who can see her the way she wants to be seen, not the way she truly is ... .at least until she can't hide it anymore.  Then the cycle begins again.


I highly recommend you try to find some clarity with respect to what she has to offer you in the long term. 

My ex can be one of the most amazing people I have ever met ... .and she can be one of the most cold-hearted, uncaring and thoughtless people I have ever met.  I put my faith in, believed in, trusted in the person I thought she could be (and she thought she could be), but it was only an illusion of my making.  As hard as it has been for me to accept this, she simply does not have the integrity or emotional maturity to be an equal part of a mutually beneficial and healthy adult relationship. 

Do think from what you've read from situation that my chances are better than nothing that she will at the very least make contact. She's different from woman her age. She's 20. She wants to have a family before she is 25. We discussed having two kids. She would like to marry in around 2 years. She is aware that she pushes people away and says it happens for a period of time and it stops. Idk if this is true. I feel like she was foreshadowing what probably will happen with us. In the letters she game me one really stuck out. She said that I'm her atlas. That even how fair she might stray she will always find her way back to me. I just feel that there's so much good in the version i know and from the thinks she knows that she will at some point comeback.

Long term I know I have to weigh my options.

I read something interesting. I want her to remember me for the good. I sent her flower and hoping that will help matters. At least open the lines of communication.

Willis, if being "remembered for the good" is your goal, I would suggest you find yourself a stable woman capable of holding on to a lasting impression.  With emotionally unstable people like an untreated BPDer, it is impossible to build up a lasting sense of appreciation or any permanent good will, on which you could later draw during the hard times. 

This goal is unattainable because, until a BPDer has had many years of intensive therapy, her emotional development likely will remain frozen at the level of a four year old.  This means that her perception of you is colored and distorted by whatever intense feeling she is experiencing at THIS VERY MOMENT.  Like a young child, she is too emotionally immature to intellectually challenge that feeling.  Instead, she accepts it as a self-evident "fact."  She is convinced that any feeling that intense MUST accurately reflect reality.

The result is that, with an untreated BPDer, it is pointless to try to leave a lasting impression, e.g., to be "remembered for the good."  Trying to do so is equivalent to trying to build a lasting sandcastle on a beach beside the sea.  No matter how great your sacrifices are for her, that sandcastle -- along with your latest impressions -- will be washed aside by the next intense feeling flooding her mind.  Consequently, if she is on the high end of the BPD spectrum and remains untreated, the best you can hope for is her continuing to flip between viewing you as "all white" and "all black."

My experience is that, no matter what you do, an untreated BPDer likely will eventually split you "all black" permanently.  As the years go by, she will become increasingly resentful of your inability to make her happy (an impossible task).  At the same time, she will become increasingly fearful of abandonment as she sees her body aging.  Eventually, that anger and fear will grow so painful that she likely will abandon you.

In my case, I tried to help my BPDer exW heal herself by taking her to six psychologists and three MCs.  At enormous expense, I sent my exW to weekly visits with those professionals for 15 years.  Sadly, it did not make a dent in her BPD behaviors.  Not one dent.  Instead, her anger and fear kept growing until she abandoned me one day to stop the pain.

By "abandoned me" I mean she had me arrested on the bogus charge of "brutalizing" her.  Because BPDers usually believe the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths, they tend to be very convincing when the police arrive.  And, because this occurred early on a Saturday morning, I was in jail for nearly 3 days before I had an opportunity to be arraigned before a judge and released.  That 3 days was far more than sufficient for her to obtain a R/O -- which courts hand out like candy to crying women -- barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce here in my State).

I mention this jail time and R/O because it took my exW 15 YEARS to get to that point.  In contrast, your exGF did "a smear campaign" and threatened you with a R/O after dating you for only 3 MONTHS.  Significantly, your very first reply in this thread was a post from Turkish, advising you to take your exGF's threats seriously.  Please listen to him.

I'm going to stop. I feel so empty. She got rid of me just because I know she has this disorder. I'm falling apart. Miss her so and I can't do a damn thing.

It is true.  One thing you can bet on, when someone tells you who they are and they will eventually hurt you ... .believe them.  This is especially true for a borderline.

There are many things a borderline might say/do to secure an attachment, many of those things may not even be based in reality.  One thing for sure though, when a borderline (or anyone) has an honest moment of reflection with regard to their true nature believe it.  She knows she has BPD and has chosen to do nothing about it.  


Not probably, certainly.  She has told you explicitly this is what she does.  It isn't a matter of if she will do it.  She will stray and has said as much.


It really doesn't get any clearer than that!  :)on't fall into the same trap that I did, believing that this time will be different.  While I didn't turn a blind eye to the "warnings" from my ex, I did give her the benefit of the doubt, and continued to do so even after her behavior substantiated the warnings.  Allowing this to happen compromised my personal self in a big way.


Is this the type of life you want to live?  If she strays to another man, and there is a good chance at some point she will, what then?  Her words here are ones of wishful thinking IMO.  She may or may not eventually find her way back, but each time she strays the pages of the "atlas" get burned until there is nothing left.  And what does all this do to you in the meantime?  


Yes you do.  Please be realistic about the situation.

Thank you so much. Do you think the damage she has caused with her smear campaign will hinder her from reaching out to me? At the very least I want real closure if I can get. If she would have broke up with me legitimately and did it the right way I would a lot better off. Instead I find out about her disorder, blocks me, cuts me out, etc 

I did do something but now I know I have to do no contact unless she makes contact with me. I emailed her, her letters to remind her of what she felt when she wrote them. I also sent her flowers so she can remember me as good. I'm just trying to open the lines of communication. After that I have to continue my soul searching

The more shame she feels about her behavior the less likely she will reach out.  That is not to say she won't but it is quite likely you have become a trigger for her shame.

Forget about getting closure from her.  The likelihood of that happening is very very small.  You will have to find a way to give yourself closure.  One way to do this is by understanding why she does the things she does.  You are doing this right now and I commend you for your effort.


Willis, your only option right now is to take care of yourself.  You are putting yourself in jeopardy by ignoring her request to not contact her.  Respect her request and if she wants to reach out she will.

I'm trying really hard to take care of myself I really am. I know no body knows but from what you've read about my situation do you think theres a decent chance she tries to reach out? I feel that the letters she wrote were a warning of this happening. One said don't give up on me or us. She wrote the letters the week we broke up. Thats text that said she does this for a period of time and it stops.

Believe me! I know what I need to if she contacts me. It's this silent treatment. It killing me inside. I just want to talk to her. Thats all I've been trying to do. I absolutely need to go no contact. My impulses to fix this and going wild right now. I'm in this situation where I can't do anything. I'm here trying to get back the woman I love back. I pray that when she wakes up that she can realize what she has done. The fact the I've been reaching out I hope helps her chances of reaching out. That whatever shame she might have still will make it okay to contact me.

Hey Willis,

First of all I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I can definitely relate to the anxiety you're feeling. But you're right in acknowledging that you need to go no contact. I know how hard it is, believe me. I was with my ex for 7 years and ultimately had to do the same. But when I was desperately begging for her back, all it did was push her further away... .to the point that she even started dating someone else. I thought it was what she wanted... .that it would show her how devoted I was and that I would never leave. But I think she just felt engulfed and out of control of her own life.

I can't speak for your ex, but mine (and seemingly many people with BPD) have control issues among other things ... .and she's probably feeling very out of control when you continue to do things she asks you not to. Believe me, I understand how you can get lost in your own head and overanalyze... .think about every possible circumstance and try to figure out what she really wants, etc... .But it's wasted energy, you'll never be able to predict what she's thinking or what the "right" thing to do is. All you can do is take what she says right now at face value and respect her wishes. It sounds like if she gave you these "warning signs", she knows herself pretty well... .so give it some time and you just might hear back from her. I think your chances are higher though, if you show her that you respect that she is in control of the r/s too... .by continuing to contact her after she's asked you not to, she may be feeling like you don't respect her or acknowledge that she has a right to make decisions regarding her own life as well.

Thank you! I'm going to start going to a therapist myself. I have major depression. Something interesting I should note. When things were good she said she would never do what my last girlfriend did to me. My previous girlfriend abandoned me much the same way as my current ex did. Could she have done this knowing it would hurt me that much more since it happened before or was this just knee jerk reaction without thinking about the situation. We also talked about if we ever broke up that we would do it the right way and try to leave on the best terms possible. This was the first time this has happened to us. I believe the woman I dated is still in her, but I think going NC is the only way she will ever comeback. That woman cares about me. For example I got in a work accident this summer where I got a concussion. She came down to make sure I was alright. I might add we live over an hour apart. She ended up taking me to the hospital and even helped me out with my paper work. She even stayed the night with me to make sure I was alright. I truly feel that I'm not completely turn black. I feel the time away probably will remind her that she made a mistake. I'm basing all of my hope on the woman I was dating. She isn't like the other woman I've been reading about. She is a silent BPD. Passive aggressive, not a cheater, not a liar, etc. I really believe she's afraid to be with me because I'm the first guy in her life that actually treats her well. Her past relationships have been with people who have treated her badly. She went on a few dates with guy before meeting me. So she isn't going to just date anyone in my opinion. I think she just wants to be alone so she doesn't hurt anyone. I threw my last Hail Mary yesterday. I sent her a email that stated I will be here if she ever wants to come back and I'm surprising her with flowers at her door today. I'm now going to go full NC and hope for the best. I really want to give this relationship one last try, because I feel there is really something here. Again appreciate you guys and you are helping more than you'll ever know! THANK YOU!

I understand the silent treatment and how it eats you up.  I have conversations with my ex in my head on a never ending loop.  So many things I want to say but no voice to say it.  You can't allow yourself to be controlled by this though.  If she reaches out or not, you need to find a way to come to terms with your own emotions.  She cannot help you with this, no more than you can help her with her problem.  She told you that she needs to deal with this on her own.  Show her the respect she deserves and allow her to do that.

I just got a notification in my email that I'm expecting package. 99% sure it's my stuff being sent back from her. Should I lose all hope that she will ever comeback or am I just reading to much into this. Is this just part of the process? Really does the having any baring of her possibly coming? I feel even more real now. I hope NV wakes her up at some point and she realizes the the mistake she made. Because at some point I believe they realize what they've done.

I'd say don't get ahead of yourself. You suspect that's what the package is, & you may be right, but there's no use in trying to predict all the possible outcomes (not that I'm not guilty of the same - it's much easier to give advice than to take it).

You keep saying that you hope she wakes up and realizes the mistake she made, etc. But I think an unfortunate reality that many others have expressed to me on here, is that for people with BPD feelings=facts. So this is her reality, and it's different from yours. I often hope the same for my ex, but I've come to realize that we're just not on the same page because my outlook is based on a combination of facts/feelings/logic, while she is run solely by emotion. That's not to say that she couldn't feel differently one day, and run with that... .I'm just saying that trying to convince her rationally the way that you and I might look at the situation, isn't going to work. And as C.Stein mentioned, as much as you want to, you can't really help her with that. The more you try to the more you may just end up invalidating her. It's likely something she's got to be in therapy for and work on herself if she wants to change.

I'm pretty sure it is because I'm not expecting anything and it's 20 lbs. Even though she is sending my stuff should I give up hope? I feel that since she knows she lost a lot of people because of her behavior that she will at some point realize what she's done. I know now that I must disappear and allow for her to figure this out on her own. I know I can't fix her. I think the only way I can help her is if she reaches out to me one day and I tell her she needs to get help if she wants to be with me. That's the only way I can aid her. It's all in her I know. I just want to keep the faith and hope someday we at least make communication. I now know I have to live my life and just see what happens. I can't wait on her. I hope my odd of her contacting me are better than nothing.

Can the girl I know ever come back and at some point wil she realize what she has done. I just want the lines of communication to open up

Yeah it's over she threaten a restraining order on me and said she's scared of me. All hope is gone. I hope she doesn't try to contact me in the future. When I heard her voice their was so much venom. She couldn't even remember the person I was before all this. This is her lose and now I can finally heal and have no worries. Besides maybe having a psycho ex girlfriend who might try to hunt me down if she can't find somebody to replace me. I'm gone with the wind.

So what did you learn from all of this?

Not to date a borderline and that I need therapy for my impulses!

You got out this time fairly unscathed. I was worried given the threats of an RO. From my point-of-view, it isn't dating (or not) a borderline; rather, it's not believing what's being said (which is of course confusing given previous idealization). Many of us got warnings and plowed ahead anyway. There are restraining orders associated with both relationships either side of mine, and battery (her) in her current one. Learning the tools here in the margins (on whatever board) and understanding both BPD behaviors and also our role in the relationships is key to surviving. All in all, I'm glad you're safe.  :)

Therapy might be beneficial, even if just a few sessions. Doesn't mean anything's wrong to the point of being pathological, but it's good to get a third party voice to provide another perspective.

Thank you! I hope she never contacts me. She's gone off the deep end. I've read about the relationship cycle and I hope it doesn't happen to me. She's scared of me for no reason. I mentioned to my family and friends what she said and they think she's is crazy and can't believe it. She truly burnt the bridge with me. You can never underestimate someone who is unstable. I'm going to take this time and take care of myself. I feel free and sense of relief weirdly enough. Just sucks how she broke up with me and how she treated me. I guess she can live with that guilt at some point in her life and worsen her feeling about herself. She lost someone that really cared about her and would never of hurt her. I guess I got lucky to get out of this situation and still haven't lost anything from it. Just miss the girl I met.

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