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This is just me venting, letting it all out.  If nothing else to remind myself to let this go.  We tried to have something together, and then we tried to be friends.  Neither has worked out well... .hell neither has worked period.  I am done with the constantly changing expectations, I am done with everything being about her, I am done with my feelings having no merit.  I have grown weary of things being a bad idea when they are my idea but a good idea when she comes to that conclusion later.  I don't deserve this kind of treatment, never did.  And yet the further we went along the worse it got.  I am done letting her make mountains out of mole hills, I am done playing an unfair game that i can never win.  I won't do this to myself anymore, I won't let her come back.  Not after this, she has pulled me back in for the last time.  I refused to be pushed away anymore.  I know I will miss her, but missing her sounds better than fighting... .it sounds more pleasant than trying to keep us together.  It sounds doable now.  I'm done... .and I feel better

 |iiii You got this! You deserve better.

thanks... .I know I do... .shame is I was willing to work, to fix the small things that were between us... .she didn't see it that way... .the smallest slight became an issue... .but she was unwilling to talk about it after she brought it up... .who does that?  Who picks apart stuff then gets mad when you want to argue about it... .shouldn't pick fights if you aren't willing to fight for a resolution

It will always always always be a new hurdle. Inventing new problems as you try to solve the old ones. Like you said, constantly changing expectations--that's so true. I assume that for a lot of pwBPD, that must be their comfort zone?

Just tired of it never being enough... .truth is I was never going to be enough. ... can't continue to play a game where the rules always change

I'm reading The Trauma Bond

They talk about Charlie Brown trying to kick the football and how Lucy always talks Charlie into trying just one more time. Of coarse he always fails because Lucy cheats and lies.

This sums up my whole relationship with my BPDgf, I never gave up and she never stopped doing the same things to me. Never trying to kick that darn football again.

Jerry,

Perfect analogy... .thats exactly how I feel... .hell the last time we broke up I suggested we take a substantial break, from one another. We were attempting to maintain a friendship... .she thought that was a bad idea... .but now that its her ending it we need a break to heal... .always moving the football

  lol I sent an image of Charlie Brown saying "Oh no ... .not again!" next to Lucy holding a football to my uBPDex once! (To describe how our post-relationship "friendship" started feeling to me.)

Lol MapleBob

Lucy was narcissistic for sure

Maplebob,

Thats great... .and its exactly how you feel... .good grief lol... .the sad part is you try and be better... .you try to make the relationship work and your try and make friendships work after and they just wont let it... .mine told me that she wants me to be happy... .we will see... .

as a pretty big peanuts fan, ive seen many variations of charlie brown and lucy and the football. countless times, charlie brown tells lucy that he knows what she has done, and what she will do ("youll pull it away and ill land on my back and kill myself". on one occasion she assures him shes a pretty girl with a smile - why would she do such a thing? he agrees. on another, she tells him hes not trusting enough. he agrees. as we all know, the outcome is the same every time. seems to me charlie brown knows the dynamics very well, but rationalizes, and believes the outcome will finally change - he hasnt really accepted who lucy is and what she will do. sound familiar  ?

once removed

sounds all to familiar, I am in this very moment fight the urge to call her, text her, email anything at all.  I have a problem and it concerns her, and the stupid thing is I want to ask her what the hell to do about my problem.  How messed up is that?

i dont think its messed up. it sounds like a natural urge. we ought not always act on our natural urges, but we ought not shame them either.

whats the problem that concerns her?

once removed

we live a few hours apart so we were in a bit of long distance relationship.  I will be traveling and be very near her real soon.  I would love to call her tell her I will be close and go have lunch or something but deep down I know that probably a bad idea.  But I want to call her and have her tell me its a bad idea.  That's whats messed up

why do you think its probably a bad idea? does it require her telling you its a bad idea to make it so?

it sounds like there is a lot of reliance on her opinion/decision making.


theres a pattern here. when and where did it start?

I think its a bad idea because it would probably lead to us getting back together. 

I know that I am overly co-dependent on her, its a shared thing honestly.  Very co-dependent on one another.

Its hard to say when it started, it grew slowly with her I guess, to the point that I didn't notice it.  But its apparent to me now.  I never used to need anyone's approval for anything.  Always been very decisive but with her... .not so much.

from reading your story, its not clear to me who broke up with whom. was it mutual?

it sounds like the two of you have the best of intentions, but as you said in a previous post, both fall into old habits. is an old habit picking up where you left off and moving quickly?

she broke up with me this time, and it wasnt a bad thing.  we had a heated argument but talked through it before it was over.  The problem is we get into a fight say we are done and then inevitably one of breaks and contacts the other.  we try and talk on a limited basis but it just builds and we end up right back where we started, back together... .and headed down the same bad path.

Was "I'm done" your idea or hers?   :)  On that note, how do I convince my wife to come up with that idea for me?  Sounds like an easier out.

I would have to concur with it.  Ideas and rules that change.  "Put all the silverware into the sink."  Guess who rarely does that?  *sigh*

My idea and habit is to turn the light off if no one is in a room nor coming back as far as I can tell.  She complained a lot about that.  "But I was coming back!"  No one besides me was in there for 10 minutes.  Another sigh.

BTW, I truly think borderline traits mixed with narcissistic traits should be against the law.

zon

the idea was hers... .thats were my current problem lies... .I was done yesterday but today... .well

what i have grown weary of is just things in general, I would suggest trying things to work through our problems... .she would argue against and beg me to do things her way.  but later when the same issue would arise she would bring up my idea... .the last time this happened I just laughed and said why is a break a good idea now that you suggested it but two weeks ago when it was my idea it was stupid?  Led to massive fight

so it sounds to me like if you want a different outcome (whatever it may be) something needs to change (thats probably going to have to come from you). resisting the urge to do more of the same is your opportunity to make that happen. it will get easier as you go.

Double standards ... .it was one of the most frustrating things about my ex and something I think will never change with her.  From what I have seen on these boards is it very common in relationships with a borderline.  This is not the way a healthy relationship works.

once removed

i won't lie and tell you that I wouldn't like to take another go at the relationship, or at least give a stable friendship a go.  She isnt bad at all compared to a lot of the stories on here.  Pretty mild traits, its just the push pull has become exhausting, and like I said in my original post the constantly changing expectations and the refusal to see logic.  Never been violent, never threatened me, hell even when she gets really mad at me her nc usually only lasts a day or two... .lets her cool off and come back and be reasonable or at least reasonable for her.   That's whats been the toughest part... .we fight, and as of late fight too much.  But like I said they aren't massive blowups. I guess what I want to try is just take some time apart, hell a couple of weeks would be a long stretch for us.  See it we both still want to be in each others lives.  See if we can both back up cool off and reset this thing.

Is that unreasonable?

C. Stein

yes the double standards would be my single largest complaint... .it just makes it hard to have a healthy argument... .and lets face it even in the very best relationships you are going to disagree once and a while and it may lead to an argument to settle it.  That's normal human interaction. 

It is if you expect the outcome to be any different.  How many more catch22 trips will it take for you to see things needs to significantly change on both your parts if the outcome is going to be different?   Time apart isn't going to achieve this and there is a part of you that knows this otherwise you wouldn't be where you are at right now.

My ex was the same, not nearly as bad as what you see on this board.  In many ways I think it might be worse because the subtleness of the manipulation and control is so easy to overlook or not even see, that is until you are emotionally numb and dead inside as a result.  I also want to believe it could be different, but if I am honest with myself I know it won't be.

not at all, its a sound and reasoned approach. i will reiterate though, if that is the result you are hoping for, something will need to change. i strongly encourage you to spend some time on the Improving (or Saving, or both) board, use that time to learn the Lessons there (they are invaluable skills and tools that will work in relationships of all kinds in your life), ask questions, etc. you dont have to over do it - some time apart, and your mind elsewhere can give you a lot of mental breathing room, but i think both boards can inform that process.

and i dont mean to contradict C.Stein - time apart by itself will do nothing. its what you do with that time that may effect the outcome.

once removed

thanks for the advice, like I said I do still value her and I think we can be friends at the very least.  But something has to give there has to be some change to the pattern we are in.  I am willing to accept half the blame for where we got to... .and I am willing to try and improve myself to be better to work with her on this... .I just get the feeling that we need a break... .like I said reset whatever it is we have left... .and hope that she sees the need for real change as well.

We just broke up again a couple of days ago, her idea.  she told me we need some time apart... .ok agreed.  I asked how long she thought was long enough, she couldn't give me a number and said just contact me when you feel ok... .she texted me today and said she had something to tell me... .I called her back and all she wanted was to tell me she missed me.  Thats why I wonder if going to see her is a bad idea.  breaking up for a week or so and then getting back in contact with her isnt going to solve much.  She knows I am going to be in her neighborhood next week.  Should i just cancel my plans all together, do I simply go and not call, or do I go see her and try to have an honest face to face talk?

no, it isnt, and thats not what has been suggested here. the suggestion is to change things on your end, and in your approach, and in a major way (or ways). this wont happen in a day or a week, though it can start today.

youre looking for instant gratification here. that hasnt worked before. it wont work this time - whatever you do.

telling you that she missed you is a positive development. you need not rush it, or pounce on it. take things slowly. keep some healthy space, because major changes do not happen over night.

the choice to see her is yours to make. if you do, i would strongly encourage you to avoid talking about the relationship - entirely, if you can help it. keep the subject matter light and upbeat, and not very deep. avoid commitment talk, avoid resolving past conflicts for now. if that proves successful, you have something more to build on in the future. if this sounds too challenging right now, id give it a bit longer. you made plans - you can follow through with them without involving her.

this has also reached the territory of saving the relationship, as opposed to detaching, which is great, but if you post these sorts of questions on the Saving board, youll get great advice, more relevant to your situation.

you can find it here:

Saving Board   (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=15.0)

Once removed

Thanks for the advice I will head over to the saving board