BPDFamily.com

I'm leaning towards ignoring it... .as I don't totally get what she is alleging... .or thinking.

Apparently she finds a computer with my email up on it... .and forwards several emails between me and a lady I hired about a year ago.

Emails are basically kind and supportive of my job search... .very general things about how it is going.

Last evening wife walked in and out of bedroom several times as I was sleeping and said some very vague things about "everyone going to know"... .blah blah... I didn't understand half of what she was saying.

This morning... .more vague things which she would not expand on... .when I asked about a couple... and tried to validate some negative emotions.

Then... .as we were walking back from dropping off d4 at "kindercamp"... .she said more stuff about "it's over... .you had your chance... .ask "fill in lady's name" if you don't understand... .

I told her I was confused... and that I hoped we could slow down and talk about what was on her mind... .

She mocked the "confusion" thing... ."oh... .I know... .my wife is so confusing... .I just don't understand... " (again... imagine a mocking... .pitiful voice... )

Then... .in the only clear... .direct communication of the morning... .she turns and says... ."I want you to keep your hands off me... .we shouldn't speak about anything other than functional things... ."... .without waiting for a response... she turns and walked in the house.

So... she seems to be trying different tactics... .I've offered several times in recent days to chat with her... .etc etc... been very standoffish... .even before she forwarded the emails.


Sigh... .

It's been well over a year... .since she has emailed the kids about me.  There have been some recent things... in last few months where she lectured the kids about what I was thinking and doing... .and why... .basically that I care more about my mom that her...

Hmmm... .

Thoughts... .

I'm going to try and go for walk... keep my mind on other things...

FF

Not completely sure i am following the specifics here.

email to who? the kids, between you and some other woman?

Do you know precisely what she is referring to yet

I may be all off base here but is this it?

Did she forward the e mails between this woman and you to the kids, as if the two of you were having some sort of affair?


This is smearing you in front of the kids? And over something like cheating?


This is not a topic to share with kids. Also you are an adult and your private conversations with anyone should not be shared with your children without your consent. This is triangulation, but also violates a child.

I grew up with this. My mother would speak about my father to us to try to smear him, and she did this with my father about me.

However, she went a few steps further and crossed a serious boundary. She spoke of sexual issues. This is not something a kid needs to hear.

I hope this isn't the case. I don't know what to say to the kids. If it is about another woman and you, they are probably mortified. I don't have a suggestion about what to do- if this is the case, it may be a cause for counseling as even today it feels creepy to think about what my mother said to me.

I know you didn't do anything of the sort- no cheating at all, but if she painted this sort of picture of you by sending the e mails to the kids, this would concern me.

An e mail between a female colleague or friend and you is not in any way cheating. I am sorry that she is making something out of this.

You can check your "send" box to see if and where any emails were forwarded to.

Me either... .she forwarded three emails... .between me and a department head level leader that I hired.

I lead a team of people to conduct a search for a new librarian.  National search would be too big of an description... but certainly regional.  We hired this lady from 4 states away... .about 10 hour drive... .

Her qualifications are superb... and seems to have a great family.  I've actually spent more time talking with her husband... .than her... .although I met her first... due to hiring her.  Her husband has "vouched" for me at the company he is working at... .for an executive level job... .I am hopeful for an interview.

Let me do some figuring... .and get some details out here...

She says she sent this stuff to kids... .no idea... .yet... .if anything sexual was alleged.

To be clear... .this is a work relationship.  Was.  She sent me a supportive email express shock at my firing... .

She has mentioned that we should all get together... .this was months ago... .my wife was a bit standoffish about it... .and I was out of town interviewing a bunch... .so... .the idea never went forward.

FF

 


11:24 PM (10 hours ago)

to me this was forwarded to me... from my wife's email.  The lady's email is correct.

FF

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From:ff wife

Date: Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:18 PM

Subject: Lets get togther!

To: other lady


Hey other lady,

Thanks for the info you have been emaiing to FF... . you two have been keeping up! The four of us should get together... .would love to talk with you and your hubby! Lets set a date!  FF wife

 

It appears she sent the exact same email... .about 10 minutes apart.

I believe the BCC'd me on the first one... and it shows up in my gmail... ."chain" of emails.

Now... that takes care of my inbox... .

FF

 

There are several forwards from my email account... .to my wife.  Looks like three email chains... .all total.  She seems to have forwarded them multiple times... .


start of last email where she started the email to me


Hi Stranger. Hope your family and you are doing good. I have not heard from you in a while. How is the job search going?

Remember the Summer Reading Program kicks off tomorrow at the Sheriff's Office  from 11:00-2:00. Your kids would have a great time. The library teamed up with  Sheriff "real name" to reach more kids. Stop by our tables and sign your children up. I have lots of fun activities planned. Plus of course we have Lego Club on Mondays at 3:30 pm. I will be there this week.

Alright better go. Hope FF wife and you are doing good.

"librarian woman"

It looks like from my point of view that maybe she is looking for a reason to paint you black and an "affair" is the only thing she can make out right now.  You aren't giving her any other reasons so she is creating one?

Well, it is a violation that she got into your e mail and communicated with the person who sent you the email.

I don't know what the purpose of involving the kids in this is, or if she really did it or just said it to support her anger.


If I were that woman, and I had been communicating with you in a working relationship, and your wife sent me an e mail, I would think that something really strange was going on with her and keep my distance. I have worked with male colleagues and not ever had their wives do something like this, but if they did, would think it was strange.

 

Example of one of my responses to her... .this is where she is telling me about her husbands job... .

start of my email to her... .(the other woman)

I had another interview today that I thought went really well... .and I've gotten some calls from references that they are being called.  

I'm going to start looking at non government positions in the "where FF lives" area... .to see if there are any opportunities there.  I like government and that is my first choice... .but want to stay open to other possibilities.

That's great for "other woman's husband"... I hope he likes the position.

end of what I sent her.

Over a several month period... .there are a few emails back and forth.  The biggest thing that she sent me was a copy of her "CV" style resume... .and I used parts of the formatting that I liked.

Here is the thing... .my wife knows that we have been emailing... .back and forth... .we have discussed it before.  Not that it matters... my wife can feel... however she wants to feel about this... .but... .there is nothing here that I consider "secretive"... .

I'm going to check kids emails... .if I can.

FF

 

OK... .so... .she forwarded the emails to S19, D18, s14 also her mom, her aunt and her sister.

Mom aunt and sister are all cut from same cloth... .as far as behavior... .etc etc.


She didn't expand on anything... .make any allegations... .just forwarded the stuff.

I'll post one more... .that might have set her off... .there are some repeat forwards... .but I can imagine her reading these... .getting pissed... .and forwarding...

Oh... .D18 stays logged in on upstairs computer because that is where she prints from... .she has given me password before to help her print from her google docs.   That's how I was able to check the email... .



FF

 

I am aware that this lady and her husband are non-denominational Christians... .but fairly conservative.

While I have never worshiped with them formally... prayer requests are not unusual... .IMO.

They seemed to welcome them... .and I certainly appreciate people praying for me and whatever is going on with me.

"start of my email to her"

Please be praying for my interview with "close by county name" County... .February 3rd at 6pm   It will be with the entire board, clerk and HR director.

Very excited about this... .it would "keep me in the area" of "where FF lives". 

:)

"end of my email to her"

"start of her response to me"

other woman <her email address>

Jan 22

to me

Wow! I definitely will be praying. I was worried the other positions were out of area. Is your family ok with the possibility of a move? Glad your Wednesday interview went well. If they are calling references that is a great sign. Keep me posted.

BOCC are meeting at the library today for workshop.

"other woman"

"end of email chain"

FF

well, she violated several boundaries: your e mail, your work relationships, and then your kids. ... and also sent your business to her family.

IMHO, the main theme is violating boundaries- you as a professional and as a parent. And also your marital privacy- involving her family.

Asking for prayers is a common and encouraged thing in just about any religion I can think of, so making more of that seems bizarre to me.

Sounds like that is what it is.  Trying to use any excuse she can get her hands on to paint you black and turn eveyone against you... .Easiest way to do that is an "affair".  


Agree with this here.  She violated several boundaries and maybe trying to trigger you

 

OK... .so... I think that is about all of the stuff... .emails I will post... .

No "allegations"... she forwarded the emails.

She apparently sent two emails to the "other woman".  The first one was a forward of the email she sent to me (about summer kick off stuff at Sheriff office)... .

The second was a repeat of the first... .but the forwarded info is not there... .just the same request to "set a date" and get together.

So... .my guess is that she is wanting to communicate to the "other woman" that she "knows" about us... .or something like that (OK... huge guess on my part).

Last night... .some of the muttering that I could make out was about "taking care of things... "  (perhaps this is what she is referring to)

FF

I think you do need to address this with whoever she forwarded your emails.  Apologize for being involved in something that should have remained between the 2 of you (aka point out that your wife should not have sent the email in the first place), and set the facts straight on what you relationship is with this woman.  I don't think nons should allow pwBPD to smear their name.

It's been a while since she "knows" that she triggered me... .I'll have to think about when that happened... .

Probably week or so maybe more... .when I complained to her about the email tasking thing... the chore chart.

I stated my request (that she not send me emails) and moved on... but... .she picked up that I was not happy...

FF

From my experience, I don't think you will be successful at getting her to admit she did anything wrong in this case. In fact, she will likely justify this by the "evidence" she found.

My mom snoops, but will not admit it or apologize. She assumes that people are hiding some "dirt" from her and looks for it. If there is no "dirt" she invents it.

Once as a teen I came home early from school and caught her red handed in my room in my letter drawer with my letters from friends ( that was our e mail then) out and she was reading them. She immediately flew into a rage at me for coming home early and not telling her and made no mention of her snooping.

My H also went on a rage at me when he found a yearbook from school and a picture of a crush I had several years before I even met my H. Somehow he made this into some sort of betrayal of my H. I never even went out with the guy- it was just a crush, but my H didn't believe me.

However, the other side of this story is that he was prying into my stuff to find all this out, but to him,  I couldn't possibly get angry at him when he had been "betrayed".

They don't need evidence- if they believe something is true, then they can take something and make it evidence to them.

Interesting... .

I'm open to suggestions... .this is where my heart is now... .not saying this is what I'm going to do... .but what I'm considering.

I think she wants to get a "rise" out of me... .right now... .I"m about a 1... .on a 0 to 10 trigger scale.  

This is bothersome... .but... it's what she does.  

I know she is a snooper... .and a violater of boundaries... .that is her.  I can't "force" her to stop... .I can be more careful about logging in and out... that kind of thing.

I believe she said that I left a computer open and logged in "on purpose"... .so she would discover all this... .there was more rant and muttering to it... .but that is the gist of what I could hear.  (I didn't respond to any of it... I believe is this case... .I went to another room)

Well... .we have MC this Thursday... .I don't think I will bring it up until then.  

Basically... my response... is no response... .

For MC I'll ask to help me understand how this helps improve our r/s... .what is her purpose... .?  Maybe I'll have copies with me so she can point out my "transgressions"... .who knows.

FF

 

I also don't think... that I will mention this... .to the "other woman" or her husband. 

As I think about boundaries... .I don't want to explain... .apologize for... .or any of that... .my wife's behavior and choices.  She made them... .not me.

Wife mentioned a few days ago that stress level in house was through the roof... .I validated... .left it at that.

There are tons of stressors... .without having to invent one.

ff

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" - no need to "protest" an affair that didn't happen.


You did nothing so you have nothing to defend. Making a statement defending that you didn't have an affair, may in some way validate this.

As to your kids, maybe saying nothing is best. They may think that they just got some strange e mails. They may not be even thinking "affair". It's like the facts of life- I usually see if they have the question before giving then too much information. A 2 year old is quite happy thinking a baby comes from mommy's tummy and doesn't need to know more at that moment.

So your kids may see these e mails as entirely different. Or they may think it was spam- and that you and your wife's e mail was hacked. There is plenty of junk that gets into people's e mails.

Maybe say nothing, unless they ask. Then say "oh yeah, some work e mails were sent by accident. I think we got hacked" and leave it at that unless they ask more. I don't advocate lying but airing the stuff between you and your wife to the kids isn't appropriate.

Not quite a lie- they did get hacked. Mom was the hacker. This might be something to discuss later but maybe not now.

The main issue is between you and your wife, not the kids.

Hi ff,

I would say absolutely nothing unless she brings it up with you again, directly and in person.

Also tighten up your computer access unless you aren't worried about your wife doing this again. As you say this is something she does.

I would not bring it up with your kids unless they seek you out about it. They will be well aware of their mothers idiosyncratic behaviours and see it for what it is.

Underlying issue again seems to link to the changing roles within your household. Your wife has been low level disgruntled for quite sometime now and has been trying to bait you on and off since your roles switched.

I can't remember if you are in MC, but addressing the changes in your relationship roles might help you explore the underlying feelings of your wife's behaviour.

 

I may have just taken the bait (I'm not triggered)... .but I did listen to an interesting phone conversation...

I feel a bit weird about continuing to listen... .but... they called me... .I don't think they meant to.  Basically... .the house phone (landline) rings... .I pick it up... .and they are in full conversation.  My assumptions is that they are both on cell phones.

Well... .it also could be innocent... .my wife is not that good with technology.

I think what happened... .is she is talking to her aunt... .and bumped her phone to add a call to home.  She has done this before... .

Well... it is major BPD land about what they "know" about what their husbands are thinking and feeling... .

She was telling stories about my desire for this other woman... .the aunt suspects I will get beaten up by the lady's husband quite soon... .the entire conversation was how my wife should "deal" with my betrayal.

So... .not sure if I should have listened... .or not.  I really ended up more sad at the delusional stuff they were talking about.

No plans to bring it up... .and really... .no news here... .many of my assumptions about how she thinks and processes things were confirmed... .

Sigh...


FF

ff it is sad when we realise the level of distorted reality that accompanies this disorder.

I don't need to tell you listening in is never good, you know this.

Feeling triggered is fine, just don't pick up the gauntlet.

Find a way to validate her underlying insecurities when she brings this stuff up.

It all sounds really emotionally quite draining, how are you taking care of yourself with this constant disruption ?

formflier, is it possible your wife's mental health issues have impacted your career (past positions and even present employment search) more than you may know?

I like sweetheart's idea of tightening up the privacy of your communications in order to turn the tide.

I am sure it has impacted it. 

It is... .what it is.

Certainly I will try to be tighter about communications... .that is a given. 

More in  just a minute

FF

 

So... .I talked with my wife... .

We actually had a good... .respectful conversation.

Towards the end... .she started getting a bit worked up... .but it boils down to the word "anything"

So... .she feels that I am flinging the door open to another r/s  with this woman... .because in one sentence I said (typed) something to the effect that she can talk to me about grants... .library issues... ."anything". 

I had zero intention to start a "personal" r/s with her... .become "best friends"... .any of that.  I used to be the lady's boss... .and was attempting to put her at ease... that even though I was not the boss there anymore... .she can talk to me... ask me questions about how things work there... .etc etc.

So... my wife said this... .I'm not going to be able to get it down word for word... .

"Because you have found a woman that you want to talk to about "anything"... .and I'm supposed to be your best friend... .and we can talk about anything... .you are wanting someone to replace me.  So... .now that I'm no better than anyone else... .we can just be friends... .nothing more.  If you want to talk about deeper things... .go talk with the woman that you want to talk to "anything" with.

So... she left the conversation... .and is going to the pool with some of our younger girls.

I'm not triggered... .I'm disappointed... bummed... .

There's no fighting this... .my plan right now is to let this burn itself out... .without me adding more fuel to the fire.

FF

KateCat,

The lady's husband has "flagged" my record (application) at his work... .sort of "vouched" that he knows me... .to hopefully break that record out and get me an interview.

So... .now that my wife has forwarded these emails... .and (new information)... .posted about this... or some vague reference to this on Facebook... .(also apparently taken down now... .I'm not a Facebooker... )... .likelihood of this guy continuing to support me in this effort is?   Who knows...


I have no plans to reach out to either of them about this... .I didn't do it... .they may or may not ask about it.

If they do... .I plan to refer them to my wife for questions about why... .and not explain or defend... or apologize for... .her actions.

Any thoughts on if that should be handled differently?

FF

 

Also... .not planning on emailing or saying  anything to the kids about this... .

Any thoughts on that?

FF

I think I may be overly influenced by the fact that I have a close family member who opted to leave the executive world because of a delusional family member who was impacting his professional life.

I'm not sure what your choices are. You probably had that chill feeling of the uncontrollable uncanny when you heard your wife and her aunt talking. In the case of my relative, those same kinds of phone calls were placed to his colleagues, among other people. (I got a few myself, and I remember how calm and almost rational the unfortunate young woman sounded.)

If you will be seeking further high-profile positions and if you can't somehow erect an impenetrable firewall between your wife and your professional life, then what would be the dangers? This might be really tough for you in particular as you are a very family-oriented and community-minded fellow. And thus pretty vulnerable to the sabotage that your wife maybe can't help but inflict on you.

I feel really bad for her too. When she harms you, she harms herself in so many ways.

ADDED: Sounds to me like a good plan to say nothing to the kids.

You are working hard at not being triggered, but I still feel that if you leave the explaining to your wife, it will not end well.  Those that don't know her well will assume that where there is smoke, there is fire, and she can have an impact on your other relationships.

I don't know if it is wise to refer your job contacts to your wife. There is no explanation. She is out of place to have contacted them without asking you.

I don't know how to handle this. I think the best you can do is let the chips fall where they fall. They have seen the e mails.

I have worked with other men, and my H works with other women. We both have work related friendships. I suppose it is possible for someone to cross the line, but I have to trust my H to handle that and he has to trust me. It is not my place to accuse him of cheating and contact his co-workers and vice versa. IMHO, the workplace requires a professional decorum, and that means keeping my martial issues out of mine and my H's.

I have no intentions of crossing a line with a man at work, but that doesn't mean we don't talk- maybe about the job, or mutual interests like current events, and if we were the same religion- we have talked about that. If one of them told me I could talk about "anything" at work, I know this means at work. .

Your wife has crossed a line IMHO. She has also taken an email out of context.

If one of my co-workers wives contacted me and I got any hint that she thought there was something funny going on with her H, I would be embarrassed- not ashamed-but still is it embarrassing to be unknowingly and unintentionally brought into something as private as their marriage issues. I would then contact my co-worker with the email and say that I don't want to upset his marriage and then, I would keep any contact, at all, with him to a minimum. Maybe they will take the lead on this one.

Just how badly can a PD affect a career?

My DH married his ex when stationed in SE Asia in the early 70s. He went from enlisted to reserve to officer candidate school. His then-wife never fully comprehended the army officer's expectations of conduct, nor that it included the spouse and children, especially when living on post.

Well, ex was a serial cheater and ended up having a pretty flagrant affair with an enlisted man on the post. Something was said to DH, who explained it again to her, but her attitude has always been, "It's not their business what I do."

So after a particularly blatant date at the post bowls Nguyen alley, DH was called in and told he was losing his command and being moved to a staff job. That was the first time he had seriously considered divorce since an early conversation about separating resulted in her saying "If you leave me, I'll burn down the house with the kids in it."

They (the PDs) can turn you any which way but loose.

 

Yep... .my wife used my work credit card to purchase something on Amazon. 

I'm pretty sure it was done intentionally... .to cause me problems.  It ended up in the paper. 

I changed procedures... and made sure she did not have access.

I paid it back... .all the records and audits are clear... .but it inserted talking fodder into things.

I am/was a public figure... .would like to be again.  But... .that may not be possible.

Did the drama in my home play a roll in me getting fired... .very likely. 

On many of these things... .when I get "busted"... I see it as a chance to tighten up my procedures and boundaries.

FF

DH's career did recover -he had several more excellent commands before he went back to a reserve status.

But ex never accompanied him to another posting.

I am so sorry. It seems crazy that they don't realize that hurting a spouse's livelihood hurts the entire family.

I would say that my H indirectly sabotaged my work by hardly ever coming home, refusing to help with the kids, and telling me that since I earned less than him, my job didn't count as much and so he could do what he wanted and not help if I asked him.

When they were little, I doubt he even knew where some of their preschools were. He has not driven them to school or picked them up. When I see fathers take their kids to school it seems strange to me.

I have been a stay at home mom, and also worked, but I try very hard to keep these two worlds separate.

However, since he didn't do this directly, he states that he was supportive.

I am grateful though that neither one of us would break the boundary of contacting a coworker or using a work credit card. We also stay out of each others work stuff- papers, computer.

I was not aware of what my mother did to sabotage my father's job, but if she was angry at him, she would threaten to go into his home office and destroy his papers. He was afraid of that, so she possibly did it. She also went into his closet and ruined his clothes and shoes. If she was mad at us, she would wreck our toys.

Hi FormFlier,

I think I have followed all the ricochets that you have navigated today.   Oy.   I don't know how you do it.   I have a headache from just trying to follow the thread postings.

I am going to take another tack.   Turning into the wind so to speak.   I followed the dilemma you went through with the chore chart,  I paid some attention to the difficult situation with the dog.  I remember the stuff around her taking teaching jobs.   

I completely agree with Fian,  you are doing a great job at not getting triggered, from my view from the other end of the internet you have mastered the skill of walking away and collecting your thoughts.  Excellent job.

Respectfully, really respectfully FF, I am going to encourage you to not let this one slip away.   I've noticed through the reading your posts for a while, a willingness to let go of some pretty grievous behavior.   We all do that.  Like it says up stream,  it's a given our partners our difficult.   

But,  I am really confused.   This was a bunch of appalling behavior.  She violated your privacy.  She embroiled your children in a topic that was extremely inappropriate for them.  Whether they picked up on it or not is a moot point in my book.  Her intent was clearly to imply sexual impropriety on your part to your kids. She then slandered your name, at least to her family and apparently on Facebook.   She involved a business colleague in a personal matter and potentially jeopardized a job connection when you have been busting your tuchis to get work.   She treated you with an incredible amount of disrespect and belittled you.

And this is where I get lost.   I don't hear you say I employed SET to explain how totally unacceptable this was.  I don't see where there are consequences the she has to absorb for her acting out.  What I think I am seeing is she acts, you deflect, divert, and recover and the process repeats.  I actually care about your welfare so I want to be sure that this serves you well.   

I think, that Lao Tzu would say you are on hemmed in ground.  And I would bet you know what to do on hemmed in ground.   From time to time we have to state our truth quietly and clearly.  Times when things are not okay.   I would suggest, that perhaps this one of those times.   There are consequences to actions.   She's swimming at the pool, and you are beefing up your email security and I'm wondering if maybe that's isn't a little lopsided.

'ducks

Well, I for one can totally understand why you listened to the conversation between your wife and her aunt. I only snoop because things kept blowing up in my face, and I hate being constantly lied to. In a normal relationship, I wouldn't be tempted to snoop. And you actually found out some valuable information, and were able to come up with a game plan because of it. Your wife is non the wiser, and it gave you time to access your options. Being in the dark, not knowing what you'll next be hit with is such a hard reality of BPD.

How old are the kids your wife emailed? Did she just do it out of spite? What does she hope to accomplish? I'd definitely tighten up her being able to snoop. I'm glad my BPD isn't a snooper. I've saved myself drama and trouble by snooping, just because I'm able to come up with a plan, and give things some forethought.

formflier, do you recall that at this time last year she was also doing all of these things to you, point per point? As well as threatening your good standing in your church community?

I don't think this gets any better by letting it go.

I agree with Babyduck's post. It is well said.

This sort of nonsense goes on the whole time in BPD land. The difference in this case is you were invited in to watch it all roll out.

I think you are doing the right think by just turning the channel off.

We all cop collateral damage living with a pwBPD. This one just has the action cam attached to it as propaganda.

It is an act of terrorism, its not just about this issue but also a warning as to what she can do if you don't toe her line. It already has you extrapolating as to how she could harm your career.

Just demonstrate it's inefficiency as a way to influence you actions.

If you wish to enforce some boundaries about violation of privacy, keep to that principle and away from specifics of the issue. ie she forwarded your emails without consent, rather than the content or the consequences.

I'm torn on this.  I can see the benefits of both ways of looking at it and handling it.  I'm all about babyducks response, though, as I was thinking the very same things.  

FF, if it were me facing all this as you are, I would NOT be okay with it.  I couldn't just let it go.  And I can't imagine my partner putting up with that sort of thing from me; understandably so!

Is this a man/woman BPD thing?

This is a pretty big deal.

1. Writing "You can talk to me about anything" is not appropriate professional boundaries.  Your friend very well may have been uncomfortable with it (but appropriate professional boundaries on her part would be not to say anything).  Her husband may not have liked it.  It's not going down well with the family.  There is a lesson to be learned here.

2. Forwarding your private email to family members was not appropriate. There is a lesson to be learned here.

I think this all has to be repaired with iron and concrete.

If your wife had not notified everyone, but found the note and was upset with you, how would you fix this?  Sever the relationship with the other women, or give her amble access to her, right.  It's unfortunate, but you stepped over, and this is all that is going to resolve it. You can't explain it away. And yes, I don' t think you had an affair or anything like it - but it looks bad - especially to a pwBPD (and that was a given).

As for her action, how do you handle this?  I think you have to lay down a value/boundary of significance - explain how she could have handled this, negotiate a reasonable way if you had a do-over - and then make it clear what you will do if it happens again. Personally - I tell her I'll move out (but those are my values   :) ).

As for the kids... .I'd offer to talk about the emails if they want to and I if one or two take you up, I'd have a simple answer for them like " your mom felt I was being too friendly with a female work associate so I apologized to her and your mom and I decided I would copy her on all future emails with this person.

This has happened before... .emails to family... .not exactly like this... .but she gets emotional about something... .and sends stuff out... posts things... .I used to react badly to it.

I left a chink in my armor open... .she got access to email... and did... .what she does... .

We have MC on Thursday... .I need to get my gameface on for a chance to communicate clearly to her... .

More in a bit...

FF

It's good you have a counselor to help out.  I think you are going to need to own your part if you expect her to own hers. Its messy.

Yep... .I do... .wondering if it is a summertime thing... .last summer was different... with different stressors in our lives...

But... this "acts of terrorism"... .bullying... .I will run my mouth (ranting and raving) until people act a certain way... .seems to be part of her "core" behavior.  It is getting better... .compared to recent years... .but the incidents where it comes out... .seem to be worse.

I have MC this coming Thursday... .I need to address it clearly... quietly... .with no wiggle room.  

I see this as being similar to when I addressed the issue of my wife sending me naked pictures of other women in my email.  

I handled it clearly... got to the point... .and have never mentioned it again.

More on this later.

FF

Here is what my wife says was a "boundary buster" and was an invitation for an equivalent relationship to a wife.

This lady had one of the most impressive CV style resumes I have ever seen... .I see a lot.  So... .the intent of this email is me asking for a digital copy of her CV

Start of email.

Any chance I can get you to send me a copy?  It was a very impressive package.  I'm looking to model mine along the same lines.

I'm always open to chatting with you for advice on dealings with "formflier's county government name" government... .grants... .anything really

end of email

So... .I did a search of the emails for the word "anything"... .and this is the only section.

My wife and I did not have the email open and in front of us when we talked earlier... .the general description of what she alleges I said... .sort of fits this.  So... 99.9% positive... this is the issue.

Also... .I had made a commitment to her... as part of the hiring process to help her navigate the tricky political waters here... .I was attempting to put her at ease and let her know I still care about the county, the library and other policy issues we were working on.

This county has a history of clearing the decks when political waters change... .she was clearly aligned with me... .she and other department heads of mine have expressed some nervousness to me about their positions... .and I have been privately talking with some of them... .even though I don't work there anymore. 

I may be confusing more than I am helping with all this explaining... JADE alert... .*)

Also wan to make sure everyone sees exactly what I wrote.  I can always to better... .and "anything really... ." was a bit open... ."anything dealing with government" would have been clearer... .

I am prepared to own my part... .and I need to clarify in my own mind... what "my part is".

FF

Yes... I agree... .I'm not going to let this go.  I have MC on Thursday morning... .that will be good time to address this. 

I hope you guys can help me sharpen my message.

I will most likely start another topic on just "sharpening that message"

Right now my gut says I will invite her to explain her intent and her side of her actions... .rather than me "accuse" her of why she did this... .or that.

Right now... .I am thinking I will stick to this one topic/issue. 

But... I am considering bringing up that this is repetitive behavior... .and she has "promised" not to do this many times before... .what is the plan to stop this behavior.  That is trickier... .because it starts reaching into the past... .I think there is enough stuff to deal with in this one incident.

I'm open to suggestions and guidance...

FF

This happens frequently... but usually it is just a long message on my phone of a "butt dial"... .and wife and kids talking.

Maybe once before I picked up phone and it was wife... and she was shocked... didn't understand how she got me on phone.

this was first time I picked up the phone to two women "one upping" each other about how big of an azz their hubbies are... .

There was a bit of a deer in headlights thing from me... .I was trying to process... think...

Ultimately... .I wish I had just hung up.

It would have been more short term satisfying to announce my presence on the line... .and experience the women flipping out. 

Really... I wish I had just hung up.  I would have been better of just guessing at what "BPDish women" talk to each other about.

Sigh...

FF

In other words, you are going to deliberately invite her to JADE? It doesn't really matter why she did it. If you invite her to explain why, then that is giving her an opportunity to put up a bunch of smoke and mirrors. What matters is that she did it and shouldn't do it again. What matters is how you feel about what she did.


Is it realistic to rely on her to follow through with anything? What good will it do to bring up that it is a repetitive behavior? That will open the door to more arguments.

Also, if it is a repetitive behavior, then that might indicate that you don't have good enough boundaries in place. What kinds of boundaries can you put in place to keep this from happening again? Can you password protect everything and then do a better job of logging off? Is the computer that you use yours or is it shared? If it is yours, set the screen saver to come on immediately and have it set so that you can't turn it off without a password.

If you try to work out an agreement with her, there is a good chance that it will be forgotten rather quickly.

I have mixed feelings about the "ask me anything" comment. I see where Skip's interpretation makes sense, but in context of a work related e mail, I would have assumed that "anything" was in context of anything work related. One could look at this with suspicion, but in a work related context, I tend to err on the side of work. Now, if there was a progression of discussion from work topics to more personal ones, I might become guarded.

IMHO, if FF made an error, it was on the side of ambiguity- but I don't get the sense that his intention was more than a professional relationship with this woman. I am concerned that if he apologizes to his wife for this, that he will feed her suspicions and give her even more reason to justify her actions.

Although I think getting into his e mails, copying them to the kids, and discussing his supposed "desire" for this woman with her FOO is out of bounds, I don't think asking why she did it will bring resolution. I think it will end up being a JADE session. As Waverider mentioned, this is terrorism, a means of control, a power move, "I can hurt you" to keep you in line. She knows she did it, she knows why she did it, and she feels justified to do what she did. She isn't sorry she did it, and given the chance, she might do it again.

With boundaries, I think all we can do is uphold ours. We really don't have control over their actions. I would not give my H access to my work contacts if he was suspicious of me or if he found an e mail that he was upset about. There isn't anything going on, but it would make me anxious to have every word I say or write analyzed by someone who is looking for evidence, being questioned. My colleagues don't deserve to be second guessed or scrutinized either- and I don't want to be. I am quite happy to meet the wives, and I have, but I go to work to get a job done, and I don't want to be distracted by a spouse checking me out or observing me either.

My H also wants to keep his work world to himself. In fact, he set stronger barriers to me than I did. I don't have a lot of concern, but if I did, I know there would not be a darn thing I could do to impact his actions. Years ago, there was an inappropriate co-worker. I have no idea how far things went on his end, and he says he didn't do anything. I do know that anything I did- the insecurity, looking for evidence ( yes I did look) , expressing my concerns- none of it made any impact because- well, he was going to do what he was going to do. Interrogation about it led nowhere. My concern had no impact on my H's behavior. I didn't have conclusive evidence of any cheating, but as Waverider pointed out, trying to control someone else's behavior by getting upset about it doesn't work. All I could do on my end was have an action plan for if I did have actual evidence or if I was repeatedly concerned. I have not been since this, for several years.

Part of that plan is to keep my work relationships private and not intrude on his. Now, I don't mind sharing my work world if there were mutual interest, but I do not want to do it for the purpose of being scrutinized and a search for "evidence" out of nothing. I figure that both of us have a higher judge of our behavior in the workplace than each other. The best I can do is keep my side of the fence as clean as possible, and act according to my boundaries.

Exactly... .  IMO... .my values and outlook on life have been consistent since before I met my wife.  I uphold those because they matter to me... .not because of my wife.

My wife is the benefactor of that... .not the reason for that. 

That's doesn't mean my wife doesn't matter... .or that I don't think of her when I live out my values... .make decisions... .

Not sure if this needs to get worked into what gets said to her in MC.

FF

I see the point of view... .but I don't want to assume anything... .I want to speak for me... .let her speak for herself... .

Ultimately... .with the guidance of a counselor... .what I would like to hear spoken to me is how I am supposed to take this... .what is she trying to communicate. 

They are her actions... .her decisions... .hers to explain.

So... .before I reached out the the woman in question... .I thought about my goals and "what good will come of this"... .

My goal was to get a better CV style resume to assist with my job search which would provide for my family. 

So... .my wife's goal in sending out this email was... .?  I expect to hear a bunch of disordered nonsense... .but I might not... .the only way to find out is to attempt to clearly communicate with her.  Likelihood of this working is less than 50%... .but it has worked in the past... .just not very often. 

The MC seems very good at validation... .an redirecting each of us to talk about our feelings... .


FF

 

Thanks for all the help in this thread.

Below is a discussion about how to respond to this.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=278513.0


Below is a discussion about owning my part of this... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=278514.0

*mod*


This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .