BPDFamily.com

Here is the old thread... .https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271461.0


I agree and trying to change this.  Can't worry about it.


Yes, I have thought about it, and no, I still don't think that is truly what she wants.  Her actions show that she is extremely confused and cares more about what she has told other people.  She has told me herself that, "She doesn't want to explain to people who think she is going one way and she is going another."


I'm actually really good the last week and a half as I have laid aside a lot of focusing on her.  When you made the statement that you "were obsessed", it hit home with me.  I realized, I have been and still on some level wanted to shield her from the bad stuff because I love her and I'm her husband.  Now, I know I can't shield her from that, don't want to, and for now, I understand that I'm her husband only on paper and when it suits her... .That is a power I don't have to give her.  


Until 8 months ago, I never lived alone, so yes, now, I know I can survive anything and will be okay.  :)oesn't mean I want to... .


For the first part, see my previous post in the old thread... .Improvements I am seeing is that she is much less volatile with me.  Still has her moments where she will fly off the cuff, but that is to be expected until she is in therapy.


I want healthiness in my life, and in my childrens life.  That is achievable without her.  What I desire for our marriage (healthy, loving, happy and fulfilled) isn't without her.  


I am doing better myself, and with her.  yes, she is still kinda crazy-making.


I did tell her that, twice in the conversation... .But... .


I still found myself getting Charmed (sucked in)... .It sucks... .She was throwing all my past mistakes up, faster than a speeding bullet and twisting me inside out.  Then I realized, I was as confused and thinking the same way she was.  Being out of the day to day stuff for almost 8 months now, I understand better just how crazy making it is... .I actually see now how and why she justifies her own crap, decisions and whatever else to herself.  She HAS TO BE THE VICTIM.  Because her dad victimized her, she WANTS/expects every man to victimize her.  When I didn't, she had to create situations for that.  


I am doing my best to stay strong and focus on myself.  I woke up this morning at 4:45AM with a bad feeling about my wife and started praying for her.  Prayed for about 20 minutes solid and texted to make sure everything was ok.  I still haven't got a response yet, but not going to text her again.  That's the first time in a week and a half that I have texted first.  

Might be a good time to limit direct phone and face-to-face contact with her.

I set my wife's ringtone to Rod Stewart's "Reason to Believe" as a reminder that if I answered the phone I was likely to get engaged in that sort of stuff, and didn't want to put either of us through it... .If you want I can send you the file for your phone! LOL

I've made a TON of progress, but I still get charmed/sucked in. And the conversation is flowing so nicely that I don't even notice when it has slid into that area until it is too late!

lol :)  Why do you say I should limit that?  I have been as you can see.  I actually was thinking of inviting her to dinner just her and I.  Bad idea right now?  I miss alone time/intimacy with her... .

She texted back and said, "I'm great, thx"  I responded, "Thanks for letting me know.  Have a great day".

 

Maroon,

You are the man!   |iiii  

Think of yourself as a softball team getting ready for the tournament... .I think you are ready. 

Even championship teams make mistakes... .but what happens when a championship team makes a mistake?  (let's hear it coach?)


I'm going to hold off on making any comments... .about Grey's comments about limiting contact... .you've asked a question... I'm interested in a response.  Grey usually has a pretty good sense of things. 

Your posts seem very clear and thoughtful... .and introspective.  I especially like the parts where you acknowledge slipping... .catching yourself... .and moving forward (the getting sucked in thing)

Anyway... .keep up the good work. 

Looking forward to your coaching analysis of teams and mistakes! 

Our team motto is "Hustle, Hit and Never Quit".  I tell them mistakes happen.  I tell my team all the time, we are a family, play every practice/game as if it is the last time you'll ever lace up your cleats, play how we coach you, don't let the other team or umpires take us out of our game, and don't try and be the hero.  If you make mistakes playing with maniacal effort, I will never be upset.  I refuse to tolerate mistakes from poor effort.  If you make a mistake, I expect you to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and make it up the next moment you have. 

That can be the next pitch, or the next inning or next time at the plate.  Don't carry it over to the next pitch, because your family will have your back.  In the championship game on Saturday, my girls played the motto to perfection even though we lost 3-2.  Both teams deserved to win, however, the umpire was new and didn't know all the rules.  I told the girls that the lesson here is, play smart.  if it wasn't for our two runners called out at third and home plate for not listening to the base coaches, we would have won.  The difference in our game of winning was 60 feet... .


Thanks FF... .I really am trying to gain a better handle on myself. 

 

Nice work! 

Hoping you will take on an assignment.

Modify your slogan and your paragraph to the coach talking to you... .about how you approach being a "stayer" in a relationship with someone that displays BPD traits.

I think it will be good for you ... .to have something to read before you "head out onto the playing field"... .(have contact with your wife)... .and I think there are lots of people on here with a sports mentality... .that would benefit from it... .once we get it tweaked up a bit... .

My slogan is "Hustle, Hit and Never Quit"... .

For a person in a BPD relationship, I would say it should be "Validation, Firm Boundaries, and Loving Patience"... .

We have to remember we are all human.  We all have faults and issues of our own to be mindful of and should change when we are aware of it.  This is something you should do whether you are in a r/s or not.  There is no TRY, there is only DO or DO NOT.  Never be afraid to fail.  Perfection is impossible and everyone will falter.  When you do, pick yourself up and dust yourself off.  Don't make excuses, take responsibility, be honest and move forward.  Validate yourself.  Don't let it haunt you by dwelling on it, or letting your SO torment you with it.  They aren't perfect either.  When your SO falls, have their back, validate them, but let them dust themselves off and lead them forward.  It will take a lot of effort to be the person they need, therefore, take care of YOU and your needs.  Don't be someone who is led by your feelings as they will lead you astray.  One thing that we can all learn from a pwBPD is, feelings are always temporary.  Don't make permanent decisions based on temporary circumstances.  Make permanent decisions based on healthy choices. 

Thoughts?

I do have one question.  I'm stuck in this thing where I am afraid at times to "put myself out there" and ask my wife for some time together just her and I.  I know why, and it's because I have been told no, she has to work, has plans, that she didn't want to spend time with me, and just treated poorly a lot over the last 8 months.  PTSD maybe?     I know there is a little fear of being hurt by her response.  I don't remember the last time she has called me and asked if I wanted to do something just the two of us.  Honestly, that hurts.  Anyway, how do I get past that feeling?  Is it just something I ask and if she says no, just say ok and let it go?  I refuse to chase her, yet it's hard when you feel like your wife is someone you barely know at times.  I guess I just need to stick to my guns of letting her call me and letting her make the effort for once.  Me always making the effort enables her to not make any.  

I was suggesting it for consideration, not as a certainty. I have made that choice with my wife... .your situation is not the same... .I've cut the quotes down to things just relevant to this point.

I too enjoy intimacy and conversation with my wife, and miss it.

My conclusion is that if I allow that sort of easy intimacy with her, things will flow into messy areas I really don't want to cycle through another time. I just cannot stop her from doing this sooner or later, and it is usually sooner.

I'd encourage you to look closely at how these conversations go... .figure out how long you can stay engaged in a good way, and how long she can. When she goes on the attack, it isn't good for either you or her. If it is happening too much, choose to limit things to avoid much of this.

I see several possibilities with your wife

• You could live separately as you are today, staying separate from your wife, but spending as much time with her and her kids as she will allow.



• You could move back in and have a marriage where there isn't much real intimacy with your wife, but you get to participate in raising her children. If you find yourself able to enforce boundaries sufficient to prevent abuse of you and the children, this would probably make you happier than what you have today. (She doesn't have to do much work for this. If you manage this, it could potentially flow into the next one.



• Your wife could recover from BPD, you could move back in, re-form a family, and resume something better than what you left. (Long process, she's going to have to do a lot of work; likely therapy... .but possible)

Think about what you want, and what is more important. You may find yourself trading off challenging her to have a better marriage, or not challenging her, to have more access to her kids and be a better parent. This isn't an easy choice. If you are lucky, they won't be in conflict much.

Maroon,

What do you see as your "next steps"?

I'm still thinking about your question about reaching out.

Initial reaction is that it is ok... .as long as you are fine with either outcome and don't react.  However... .I'm thinking that you might want to spend some time on the boards developing your next steps... .working through goals.

You kinda have a few big things behind you... .

Car

Daughter in softball

Maybe a better question... .what other things need to be resolved... .(is laptop still an issue?)

 

Have you talked to your mom?

Do I have this correct.?... that... .you asked your mom to stay out of it.  Mom sits next to her... .mom chews on her about the r/s.

That is hard for me, especially when she enjoys it as much as I do... .


My wife and I usually have two to three good weeks when we are spending a lot of time together before things got messy and a reason came up to shun me from her presence... .But that was when there was always things to "hold over my head" so to speak... .Now, there really isn't anything.  It's all pretty much settled, and now we are in less contact since the car thing got straightened out.  I think she went to a place where she thought I was "done" and protecting herself since I was pushing so hard for them to be separated.  Again, I won't worry about what she is thinking or what is "making sense to her".  Part of my "stepping back" is to limit the abuse of using me, let her taste her choices and most of all to get to a place of healthy conversation.  It is definitely healthier since I stepped back and do believe she sees a difference.  

    One thing she said the other night while talking was, "For someone who "cares about his family so much, you spend a lot of time at your apartment".  Never really got this, and didn't know how to validate it.  What I said was, "I would much rather be spending time with my family than there."  



This isn't healthy and I won't allow it to go on much longer without T.  This would cause way too much confusion in the kids and I won't do that to any of them.  


I would ONLY consider moving back if she was in T, we got a different house, and the kids knew the truth about her and what she struggles with... .


"Challenging her to have a better marriage"... .Interesting... .What does that look like?  

Thinking about my responsibility of being a parent, I am in conflict with not challenging her to have more access.

The oldest son already doesn't respect me because of what he has been told by my wife... .That certainly won't change without seeing me in the fatherly role inside the house.  He already treats me like crap most of the time when I have been to her house.  Part of it is he is bitter and angry... .Part of it is painting me black... .Why did you feel limiting contact was right for you?


My next steps... .Continue to keep my sidewalk clean.  I am staying with our daughter at my wife's house weekend after next while she is with the older two out of town.  That will give us some one on one time and excited about that and told my wife so.  I want to "reconnect" emotionally with my wife now that all the "sideshow bob" crap is out of the way.  This is where I'm nervous because this requires both of us.  


Yes, laptop is at my wife's house still... .I could simply take that while I'm there and put it in my car... .:)... .


I did ask her to stay out of it if she came to the softball fields to watch the kids.  She did confront my wife (away from people) and told her to leave me alone, but still did what I asked her not to do which really pissed me off.  But it does add to my wife's fear of things not being able to be fixed.  I validated that the other night afterwards when we met, and told her that what my mom thinks doesn't change that I want to be with my wife.  My mom is a piece of work and can't keep her mouth shut.  When it happened, I took up for my wife and told my mom that she was out of line and it wasn't her place.  My mom does this kind of crap and always gets involved in things that aren't her place... .[/list]

Why did I limit contact? See my last two topics on the Undecided board. (It isn't really a staying subject)

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271318.0;all

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271977.0;all

Maroon, you twice mention a "need" for your wife get therapy. I've heard many stories here of people whose partners don't believe they are mentally ill, and don't want to get treatment. Getting them into effective treatment is a HUGE challenge. Many others here have partners in some kind of therapy, and aren't seeing fast improvement.

I don't recall your wife acknowledging any mental health issues at all.

You also say something about "the kids knew the truth about her and what she struggles with"

Honestly... .kids are VERY aware and in tune with what is going on in the house. They may also be involved, enmeshed, and very resistant to their current beliefs/feelings being challenged.

I think the issue there is really parental alienation. Ugh.

My wife has acknowledged some issues in the past (what I know now is symptoms of BPD).  I know that being in T is a slow process.  I guess I just want her to admit that part of our r/s breakdown is her fault and let's start there.  At least that is a start.  I know that is no small feat for them however.  I do think parental alienation is totally right on.  It sucks.  I'm hoping that by spending time with the younger one next week will put me in a different light.  I'm actually surprised my wife is still doing it at this point, especially after "threatening divorce".  I wonder how she'll hide it to her Facebook friends.  She'll probably tell them she shipped her to Antarctica for the weekend.   :). Lord knows the last eight months I've might as well been there!   lol. At least I can laugh about it.

Have you posted about how to deal with the parental alienation on the Legal Board, or better yet, the co-parenting after the split board?

Lots of folks there have dealt with it before. Your status as a non-legal-step-parent changes the tools you have, but not what your wife is doing.

No, I will post there today... .Thanks... .

Ok, so I am a little irritated this morning.  My wife texted and said our daughter would be a few minutes late to warm ups for our game tonight as she has to pick up our older two from voice lessons.  I offered to pick her up early and would give her some extra batting practice before the team got there.  She said she would meet me at the fields and drop her off.  I told her that was fine and what time to meet me there.  Here are a few things that irritate me.  After I told her where at the fields I would be, I asked her how work was going (you know, small talk).  She responded with, "Ok, that's fine.", but no response to my question.  I just responded with, ok, see you then.  Avoiding is irritant no. 1.  Irritant no.2 is she asks me if I am able to stay with our daughter next weekend, but yet, acts weird about me coming over (will go out of her way to keep me from her "territory" when it is on my way to pick her up), which she usually does when I'm painted black (makes me feel like I have leprosy or something).  Then, I question why she even wants me to stay with our daughter.  I guess this is still gives her some form of control over the relationship and avoidance of the issue regarding our r/s (or lack thereof at the moment)?     I'm over the irritation now... .lol

It can be really empowering to name behavior.

I still remember the time when a friend just casually added something into an email conversation where I was asking for support in working things out with my wife "You know, verbally abusing your spouse is completely unacceptable." based on the behavior I was describing / saying I was afraid would come.

I'm pretty sure it was the first time the word "abuse" ever came up for me. The ripples that came from that pebble dropping were ultimately pretty big.

How did you figure out when to bring up that word with your wife? 

Do you think you go the timing "right" when you did it?

Great question, because I was thinking of actually talking to my wife about this... .

I recommend you NOT bring that word up with your wife, if at all possible. Firm boundaries that you won't accept abusive behavior work better than labeling it... .with her.

If you need to use words to enforce the boundaries, try things like "I will not stand here and be shouted at." instead of "I will not stand here and be verbally abused." for example. Use words that are less charged, and harder to debate/deny like "shouting" "criticizing" "arguing"

For YOU, the label is very powerful in a good way. It helps you frame your thinking about the situation. If you mention it to her, it is still powerful... .but not good--it will put her on the defensive, to say the least. (She might start screaming "I am not abusive!" at you   Nothing good will come of THAT!)

I was VERY lucky, both in circumstances, and that my wife is far more self-aware than typical for these boards.

We were having a lot of horrible fights... .and both looking for solutions because we both know something wasn't right in our marriage. She found an online description of a workshop, which was intended for couples in abusive relationships (after physical abuse was addressed, or where it hadn't come up at all).

She read the description, and even though it was written as most text about domestic abuse is written--as being perpetrated by the man on the woman, she had a very serious realization that her behavior was abusive, not mine. And she told me.

So I never did put that label on her. I don't think anything good would have come of it had I done so before she saw it herself.

My $.02

Actually I was talking about the parental alienation tactic she does.  She refuses to admit any abuse on her part, even when it is staring her in the face... .

Ask yourself... .would she admit to parental alienation if it was staring her in the face?

If not... .saying it out loud to her isn't likely to change anything for the better.

I think the same advice applies. If you bring it up, bring up specific behavior that is harder to deny is happening, rather than a confrontational label for the pattern of behavior.

Better to have your lawyer use the words parental alienation, if it comes to that! Part of what you pay a lawyer for is to say the nasty stuff on your behalf, saving you from (some) of the consequences.

Probably not... .lol


So, if I understnad correctly, I should ask why she doesn't give me the details for the kids extra curricular activities?

Don't ask why. Pretty silly to give her an engraved invitation to to JADE or blame you!  lol

Identify what specific behavior you want her to change, and ask for that. Work on good communication skills... .perhaps SET?

 

In my r/s... .I've really tried to get rid of "why".  Sounds very lawyerish... .

"Help me understand... ." is one of my favorites.

But... .you have to make sure you have even delivery... .and that you really want to understand.

Sometimes... .if I'm not on my game... .I say it and it probably comes across as  "ha ha... .I'm going to make you explain your ridiculous behavior... ."

Maybe thinking about saying it without any judgement is the way.

In this case... .I think I would go with grey... .

"Wifey... I would like to know about little Jimmy's concert schedule so I can show up and support him... ."

If she coughs up information... .thank her and move on.

If not... .then... .you have a big decision to make.

Even help me understand invites an explanation... .if they start explaining... .they can easily slip into blaming.

So... .might be best to drop it if she says no... .and maybe try again later.  Who knows...

Good luck...

I use "help me to understand" and she asks a "help me to understand" question right back.  Pretty ridiculous... .:)  The other thing I love is when I say, "I'm sorry you feel that way", she responds with either, "I'm sorry you feel that way!" in a completely mocking tone or says, "That is such a BS comeback!  :)on't take any responsibility for how it makes me feel!"  I have to laugh sometimes because when I tell her how I feel, she says, "I'm not responsible for how you feel!" :) lol :) lol  I feel like I'm talking to Pee-Wee Herman sometimes with the, "I know you are but what am I!" comeback... .

Time to stop talking about feelings with her. At least for a while. When was the last time that went well?

BTW, "I'm sorry you feel that way" doesn't sound either caring or validating.



Stick to asking for what you want, packaged using the best communication tools you have. Pick something you want, and work on how you can ask for it... .

Time alone with just her and I for starters!

Uhm... .I meant something relating to the parental alienation.

How has the last time alone with her gone? How long has it lasted without dysregulation, attacks, blaming, etc.?

Yeah, I know... .Thought I'd take a shot in the dark!   lol


The other night wasn't great... .Overall, much better than it was the first couple of months... .Sometimes lasting a few weeks.  Last night I got a text from her after our game:

     Your behavior on the field tonight was ridiculous! What happened to self-control, grace, mercy and     

     encouragement? The tantrum you threw was embarrassing! Do you see any other coach out there acting like

     you do? You've lost touch with what a coach is supposed to do. When you act like that, your girls give up. It's

     no longer about playing their best, it's about playing to keep you from getting mad and that's where the

     errors run rampant. You are the only person responsible for this loss tonight.

My response:

     I can tell that you are disappointed in me.  I can see how my frustration affected the girls.  I am disappointed

     in myself.  I admit I got frustrated and didn't show a whole lot of grace tonight.  No excuses from me.  I

     should have handled it better.  Thank you for talking to me about it.  I appreciate you.  I will talk to them on

     Friday at practice.   

In some ways, she was right, and know I am ultimately responsible for our teams play, but has been a while that she actually has had something nice/loving to say to me (last time was right before the accident that led us to getting other vehicles, and on a more regular basis was during the holidays and when I was taking care of her when she was sick about a month ago). 

To actually answer your question about parental alienation... .How about spending time all together (not necessarily in a romantic way, but rather a family way)... .We have talked about it (going to a park and fishing, etc), but haven't done it due to her dysregulations and ST's... .

I found out this morning why my wife has been pissed since the car deal got completed.  She didn't have the money to put down and had to take the 16% interest loan she signed off on to take the car off the lot.  I can understand her not being happy about having to do that, but it isn't my fault... .I told her to look at a new car since our credit union finances 100% on them and she chose not to... .Oh well... .

Uhm... .you aren't making a good case for asking to spend 'alone time' with her.

It would be fun to spend time just with the image you have in your mind of who your wife could be / was. However you seem to be making a go pretty good case for NOT spending time alone with your wife. Wait until you can have civil text/email conversations, and civil public interactions like at softball before you ask to spend time with your wife... .AS SHE IS TODAY.

OTOH, asking to spend time with her and the kids sounds like a better idea... .but if you cannot even negotiate that with her... .Well... .I dunno.

Waiting 'till she isn't pissed about "X" doesn't help--she will find a way to be pissed about "Y" next.

I try to remember the good things from keeping my mind from going to a bad place... .


Yeah... .our conversations and civil interactions for the most part lately have been better but she doesn't bring much good to the table at the moment in my life... .I still believe she will, but not as of this moment... .


True dat... .


Not the first person who has told me this... .Do they remember/dwell on ANYTHING positive when they are like this?  How long has it been since your wife said anything nice/romantic, sincerely, to you?  Mine has done it in moments, but I don't remember the last time my wife called or texted and just said (out of the blue), "Hey, I'm just thinking about you and I miss you, miss spending time together, etc." 

My point is not that you should give up on your marriage... .that your wife never did anything positive.

My point is that her recent actions sound pretty consistently negative toward you.

My suggestion is to wait for a change of attitude with her, accepting that she is in the mood she's in right now... .and DON'T use memories of better times to set yourself up for a miserable failure.

As for my wife? She's not abusive at all. Frequently sweet and lovey. And doesn't want to participate in a marriage with me, by her actions or her words. Sigh. I'm the one limiting contact with her.

Yeah, her attitude has been consistently negative toward me.  We have texted more today, but been very light and about the kids.  I recognize and accept that is where she is and why I have stepped back from the day to day melodrama.  It's actually been nice, even though I do miss her.

|iiii Protecting yourself from the daily melodrama is excellent. Glad you are enjoying the fruits of that effort on your part!

 |iiii Letting yourself feel that you are missing her is good for you too. The feelings are real, and they matter to you. (And if you try to ignore/stuff/argue with them, it won't help anything!)

This feeling of missing her doesn't mean that if you invite her for a 'date night' tomorrow you will get what you are missing.

 It isn't an easy realization to process.

I've adapted.  At first I hated being without her and the kids.  I didn't know what to do.  Now, I have been able to do things for me, and it has given me a lot more confidence.


No, it's not.  The hardest thing for me still is trying understand how any mother would want to cut out of their life someone who loves them deeply and wants to care for them.  :)eep down, I know that is not what she wants, which is sad.  I know I shouldn't try and understand those things because they are not reasonable or normal, but my mind doesn't work that way.  It wants to figure stuff out.  I don't think about it nearly as much, nor let it consume me because I know that I can't do anything about it.  Just still something I struggle with.  

At times, I do think about the days that she would ask if there was anything I needed, asked how I was doing, texted to tell me she loves me, and made our r/s a priority.  I enjoyed our Friday lunches together as it was just us as a couple.  I do think she truly cared on that level until 8 months ago, despite her illness at times.  I do think going through menopause made her illness go over the top.  

I find myself hoping she calls/texts and when she does, it makes me happy (I feel pathetic just typing that).  The truth is, I want a r/s where the r/s (after God) between us is first again and is a priority.  It's still the strangest feeling when you have been had such a deep connection with someone for so long, sharing visions for a future, raising children together, and now, because of their illness, they are a stranger.  

She sent me a picture on text yesterday (from Facebook) and it said, "Once you start to heal and pull away from your narcissistic parent, they will see this as a threat.  They may accuse you of being manipulated by someone else.  "Who has put these crazy ideas in your head?"  This is actually their fear, from the realization that they are losing their control of you."  Very strange, and not sure it was intended for me... .

If you can focus this on continuing to learn and understand more about the disorder... .less about her... .less about you... .that is most likely going to be productive.

I still sometimes think back to things I "messed up"... .or did before I learned about tools and started doing things "right".  That thinking is generally not productive for me if I let it take me to a "if I had only... ." place.  If I let it give me strength to press forward and learn more about the "order to the disorder... " it seems healthy.

Do you relate to any of these thought patterns?

Absolutely I do... .I feel I am getting better... .


What I thought was strange about this picture she sent yesterday was we were sending pictures back and forth about the kids and keeping things light and having healthy conversation.  I did ask her about it and she didn't respond which is why I believe it wasn't inteded for me.  I let it go, and didn't think too much into it... .

Today I am having a pretty strong feeling of trying to contact my wife.  I really miss her today... .I don't want to do it out of fear, but would like to have lunch with her.  I don't want to get rejected either.  What to do... .This sucks... .

Oh ML,

If you want to have lunch with your wife ask her. 

Yes it is possible she will say no, but not asking and wanting to sounds to me much worse than not asking at all, or being rejected.

FF and GK will probably provide you with a much more indepth analysis of the pros and cons, but for me sometimes I think in not reaching out to someone we love what we are trying to achieve can get lost in translation.

Also just a thought if you were to keep asking and always meet with rejection then it might be time to try a different approach.

Sometimes we as nons get too caught up in their dysfunction and forget that it is a perfectly natural desire to want to spend time with someone we love and to let them know this.

For what it's worth ML I keep on asking and reaching out just to let my h know that I am still here. Most of the time is hasn't been able to reciprocate, but I've come to accept this as part of the illness rather than him rejecting me.   

We did have lunch last weekend with our daughter after softball.  As far as just us, she has rejected a lot (Christmas gift, Valentines Card, etc) from me lately and why I have decided to step back from her dysfunction.  I'm tired of making all the effort in this relationship regarding spending time together.  She knows I'm here.  I'm done chasing

ML do you know the saying ' cutting your nose off to spite your face ' ? It might be that's she just not capable of meeting and reaching out to you in the way she did before. It sounds as though she is often teetering around dysregulation and then some, it is hard for the pwBPD to find a way back from this each time this happens leaving them in a continuous state of agitation and irritability.

I believe in choosing to stay we lead by example and sometimes in continuing to role model positive, appropriate behaviours that exist in relationships where mental illness is not a factor, we can be part of helping our SO return to more 'normal patterns of functioning.'

Wanting it to be like it was before can stop things moving forward and create an impasse. Like playing 'chicken' this isn't a game of chicken, and in not reaching out to your wife because you can, because you are the well person seems counter intuitive to me.

That said I can hear that you are tired and fed-up with the way things are now and it takes great resilience and energy to always be the one to lead the way. I can relate to how you feel and it is very hard emotionally. Your journey has been a long arduous one and you have shown a huge capacity to learn and understand.

I totally agree with how you feel and feel for 8 months, I've done just that.  I'm not trying to "cut my nose", I'm actually trying to show strength and the ability to step back from being mistreated and our relationship being a one way street.  I refuse to enable her any longer and letting her live her choices.  She has backed herself into a corner (with her distorted reality and victimhood) with the kids, her family, friends and she will have to decide what's more important.  Is it more important keeping up her lies to people or working things out with her husband?  She hasn't shown that I'm a priority in a long time.  It's hard to continue to make her a priority considering.  If she were in counseling and not trying to sabotage it the times I've made the appointment, I might not be here.  I'm just trying to show her I want healthy... .

Stepping back from the mistreatment and dysfunction of a relationship with a SO who has BPD is of course exactly what every lesson on here teaches us. It is how I protected myself from my h's chaos this last year.

I was just thinking what will happen if she can't reach out, where will that leave the marriage for you ?

I accept that my h is unable because he is mentally ill to prioritise anyone else's needs over his own, but he can at times now since I stopped triggering him reach out to me with an unexpected gesture of love and intimacy. These gestures have changed in their presentation in the last few years but they mean more to me because we are long out of idealisation and firmly in the reality of living with someone with BPD. They feel real.

Remember ML what you want from your wife and what she has the capacity to give you can be two very different things. Can you accept this difference in your marriage in a way that allows you to continue to stay?

I'm also just wondering what you want your marriage to look like now if you were to describe it to someone ?

I haven't ever lived apart from my h and i can hear that this creates an extra layer of difficulty from which to convey what you want for your marriage and from your wife.

 

My advice is to figure out where you want to go to lunch... .invite her to go... .and go enjoy lunch.

If she chooses to enjoy lunch with you... .great... .if she declines... .you still enjoy a nice lunch.

FF

She can and does reach out.  Today is two weeks that I have stepped back and only texted her first once.  She has texted first all the other times.  She is perfectly capable.  Our communication since then has been healthier as we haven't been around each other enough for her to dysregulate.  To me, that already is progress.  She is controlled by needing to be in control.  Me stepping back takes the control out of her hands.  I can't help that that makes her uncomfortable.  I stopped telling her I love her as that was another way to reject me.  She may not be able to return affection at this point in time, but that is hers to work out.  She can't expect me to just keep being a glutton for punishment.  I accept that what she struggles with keeps her from that, and love her in spite of it.  At the same time, she can't expect to treat me that way and expect me to stick around forever.  By not stepping back, I was becoming obsessive about this thing and making myself crazy.  


I would have to do dinner as lunch is already over.  The problem I'm having, is I don't know if I can go just her and I today and not talk about the r/s.  That bothers me.

I have had a very difficult afternoon emotionally.  First one in a while.  I sat with my feelings of loneliness, heartbreak and just let myself shed some tears!  I allowed myself to miss my wife and my very best friend.  She was my best friend and it is painful to deal with the last 8 months of feeling like you are the enemy a majority of the time.  I wish I could express these things to her.  I looked at a picture on my wall of our first date, and I just thought to myself, "Where are you?"  Ridiculous, I know.   I guess I needed today on some level.  Not chasing her for the last two weeks has left me stronger as I'm not involved in the day to day melodrama, but (and I don't mean for this to sound narcissistic) I am wanting a relationship that meets emotional needs for me as well.  Just an I miss you, or I love you would go a long way. It's been weeks since I have heard that from her and possibly months where it wasn't attached to something I could do for her.

Sorry your day didnt get any better... .

I was also really hoping for some contact today, dont know why today but was feeling it.

I got depressed yesterday and took pictures down, wish I could tell you it helped but today the blank spots make me want to cry more than the pictures did.

Hope ssoftball practice gets your mind clear for a little while.

Hang tuff... .

Well, last night after practice, my wife decides to confront me regarding an issue with softball with our daughter.  :)uring practice, my daughter was completely out of line with me rolling her eyes and talking back to me.  I kindly pulled her aside and told her that wasn't acceptable behavior and she needed to straighten up.  She told me that I was "being too hard on them" (meaning her) and practice wasn't fun.   . I told her that it isn't going to be fun when they aren't giving me their best and as long as that continues from them, they will continue to run and do push-ups.  I'm here to coach and teach, not be a babysitter.  I told her that I expect my daughters to lead.  I told her that her behavior would not be tolerated.  She said she understood.  After practice, I asked the girls to gather up the balls and she walked off.  I called her back to talk to her and my wife walks up with that BPD dysregulated air about her and said, "Is there a problem".  I told her that nothing was wrong and then they walked to the car.  After a few minutes, my wife gets out and asked me to talk to her.  She started saying that our daughter is uncomfortable and I am taking our situation (marriage) out on her.  It was total BS.  I told her that I was sorry our daughter felt that way, but her behavior has been out of line at times.  She said I needed to make this about our daughter and make sure she has a good time.  I told my wife that that is what I want also, and at the same time, if they aren't behaving and giving me their best, I can't allow that.  My wife accused me of being inflexible to the needs of our daughter.   . Pot, meet kettle (didn't say that obviously).  My ex-wife then drove by and said that my son wants me to call him (he's really sick).  I told her give me a few minutes and I would.  My wife said, "Go take care of YOUR biological children!" I'll let you know if she'll be on the team any longer.  She then almost closed the car window on my hands and then drove off.  She texted a bit later and said that she would still remain on the team.  I asked her if she would talk to me on the phone as there was something important I needed to discuss with her.  She just flat said, "No".  Then she asked if our daughter could ride to the fields this morning as there was somewhere she had to be to drop off our other daughter and I said sure.  She said thank you.  I told her she seemed pretty upset this evening and that our being separated is difficult enough for us and extremely hard on our daughter.  She responded with, "I wasn't upset, just direct."  Riiiiiight.   . She can't even be honest.  No matter what I try and validate lately, it's always the opposite.  I just didn't go any further with the texting and went to bed.  I feel my daughters issue is she is trying to separate herself emotionally from me (because her mom) and causing a problem to make it easier in her head by making me the bad guy.  Her real dad wants nothing to do with them and now her mom is ostracizing me because of her illness.  I tried to validate some things my wife said regarding my daughters feeling, but some of them, I couldnt.  

This morning, before our game, we had team pictures and my wife and I talked a little bit and was cordial and nice.  She was talking about her Tae boxing class and I just listened and validated.  Then, after our game, we went for a team luncheon and my wife had to go pick up our daughter and her friends where they were and so our daughter rode with me.  At first, she said she wasn't coming, but then my older daughter walked in (didn't even see her at first as I wasn't expecting them) with her friends, sat in another part of the restaurant (my wife then had to take our son where the girls were) and my older daughter didn't even say hello to me.  I went over and talked to her and her friends and asked how they did at their choir solo and ensemble.  We talked for a few and I went and sat back at my table.  I'm going to be honest, it was effing weird.  You would have thought we never met until I went and talked to them.  My wife shows up a little later and sits with my older daughter.  She didn't talk to me either and wouldn't have until I had to ask her a question.  It seems like she is making things uncomfortable, purposefully separating herself (and creating a scene in front of people) and frankly, I'm tired of it.  She left and never said bye to me or acknowledged the other parents in any way.  I am doing what I can to make things better and she is not.  It's almost like she is purposefully making things harder and uncomfortable at times.  The avoidance of me and our r/s the last few weeks is getting old.

Im sorry that things did not go well.

It is hard coaching your own kids, and your situation has to be making it harder without a unified front.

It is hard when were the ones learning what we can about BPD and think were gaining the knowledge and tools to be able to accept it and work with it. And they just continue with there destructive lives, and once they are out on there own it seems so much harder to try and utilize these skills, since avoidance is so much easier for them.

Mine did contact me friday night, crying all emotional, half love more like sex bombing and talking like she wanted to see me, then nothing Saturday, this morning a little small talk texting, so I asked if she wanted to have dinner and she stopped responding. My only cconsistency is the lack of cconsistency, Think I read on someone elses thread... .just enough crumbs to keep me on the trail.

It's okay.  This is why I have stepped back from our r/s a ton and focused more on the kids.  The problem is, by her avoidance, she is making things more difficult with the kids as shown yesterday.  I am learning to let it go and realize it does no good right now to approach the subject.  Since our car deals went down, she has me split black.  These are her choices and learning to deal with them better and not allowing it to affect me because she doesn't want to deal with them.

Maroon, this does affect you.  How is it affecting you?  Please don't stuff your feelings, they matter!  You matter!

She might not be in a place to hear them and accept them, but we are

I have started a new thread... .https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=272410.msg12584000#msg12584000

*mod*

Since ML has started a new thread to continue the discussion, this one is closed (it's reached its post limit anyway). Please direct new responses to the new topic referenced in the above post.

Turkish