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Well, it's been almost 7 months NC. Guess one day I'll simply won't count any more.

The fact is that now I am playing the other side of the coin. What do I mean by this?

I met a girl some time ago, red-flag's everywhere. 11 years younger than me. Not BPD but other traits. Her sexual orientation makes it even more interesting and actually I'm playing with fire here. I'm not in love with her, nor want ot be in love with her. She is not my gf nor will be. The fact is that we have 'sort' of a relationship. But, even if she tells me she is seing someone, then someone else, ... .I keep reaching her from time to time. I don't want to change her, really don't pay attention to what she says to me. Just follow on and don't get involved. Actually I'm kind of rude? with her. Being more of a "don't care" guy. Don't get me wrong I don't mean I get physicall wiht her or violent or verbally abussive not at all. Just that I don't care. Cynic would be the word. I go out with her, fool around with her. Flirting in a cat/mouse game. Why? Just to get my needs met. Boundaries, respecting my boundaries even in this "Cruel Intentions" game.

Am I proud of it? No. Am I ashamed of it? No. Just playing the other side of the coin.

Why am I doing this?

I got all the messages from my former relationship, got beat up emtionally, lots of unanswer quiestions, no closure (closure within me). She is no involved either, we are just playing along. Must admit some interesting experiences hanging out with her, looking at it without the emotional burden of "she is my gf".

I might just giving me permission to be cynic and have fun with someone. I was 'marked' the good guy all my life. Tha caring guy with his family, friends, ... .who looked after them. It's not bad, on the contrary. Besides, it is my nature. But from time to time to say I want this and I might be a tiny jerk for a while in this particular situation.

Just exploring other parts of me.

Hi IJTO -- what an interesting post, thanks for your candor.

I'm not sure what you mean by "kind of rude?" with her.

IMO, it seems pretty healthy AS LONG AS your new friend isn't feeling hurt or abused.  In that respect it's in the eye of the beholder, don't you think?  You're saying that you're not abusive, physically or verbally, but feeling more cynical and having fun with someone, in touch from time to time, enjoying the cat-and-mouse flirting.  What would the cruel intentions be if you both are, in effect, consenting adults?  I mean, if she has, you both have, for example, a dark, twisted sense of humor (raising my right hand and rather proud of it since it gets me through some stuff), then why not?  And not having the emotional burden as you say, of "she is my gf" seems like a good course, right?

You sound like an honest, introspective guy.  You're aware of some red-flag and keeping a careful distance.  If your conscience is clear that you're not hurting anyone (yourself included), then I'd say just enjoy it for what it is.  It might just be the flip side to the overdrive of good and caring you were in with your BPDX.   Other aspects of you may just be free to exist now, without concern of major drama coming out of nowhere.

For me, I'm amazed that I can basically say what I want to now without explosion!  In fact, the guy I'm dating (who I've known for a very long time) told me that I don't have to be so careful -- a  my-issuesthat still remains to some extent for all the times that X blew up in my face.  I'm just staying honest with myself that I'm not taking something out on him.

its called a 'booty call'  |iiii

That's funny -- it took me a lot more words.

ya, well, you know. were all adults, lets call it like it is  :)

but i can tell you from experience, someone always gets hurt to an extent in those too. so... .ya

Hi innerspirit, dilbert.

I mean rude with her in the way I talk to her, the things I say to her, the way I approach her.  Cynical is the word.

In this cat-and-mouse game I came to realize of some attitudes and BPD 'tests' which now I look from a different perspective. i.e.

Hey I need to pay for x and don't have the money. Me: What a pity, hope you can get the money soon. (Before I would lend the money).

InJourney, I believe we shall not see each other again. Me: o.k., no problem, I'll take you home. (before I would feel bad and rejected).

And so many other. Guess that is why I call it the other side of the coin.

I have become more direct: I want this. I don't like that. Even if we are fooling around that attitude no,no It will lead us to X.


You are rigth Dilbert, its a booty call to someone with particular and identifiable traits.

For what I've seen until not she nor I am being dishonest in this dance. I want your booty, you'll tease me we'll play and have a good time. p.s. PD traits will not be tolerated. =)


With a touch of lets see what happens if... .

I just wonder it this the other side of the coin or is the same side one just a different color:

                empathy gone - cynicism took it's place.

One letting other emotions overrun ourselves. The other walling other emotions off.

              what would mean turning the coin?

                            start validation?

i cant say im much different from you... .

i really dont want a true relationship... .im just enjoyong life , women, and women. lol

but i make it known... .im not looking... for permanant. if it drops in my lap yes

so ... .

do i think your doin something wrong... no i dont... .especially... if she not making any commitments... and your arent ... and you dont lead on... and she dont lead on...

noone gets hurt...

See, we don't hear tone of voice, obviously, when you post what you've said.  But take away the "what a pity", and IMO,the above quotes just sound like good boundary-setting.  And you're mentioning what you would have done or felt before like it was a reflex.  Maybe the pendulum is just swinging a little wide for a while til it gets back to center - with someone who has a fairly thick skin.  Who knows -- maybe she's playing a little of the same?  Different strokes... .

And you're aware of it, which is great, IMO.  Sounds to me like your gut would tell you if you cross the line.

idk... ive had a bunch of 'relationships' like that... mostly that... im gonna do... what im gonna do... and if theyre cool w/that... then thats great... if not... then we probably not gonna be seeing a lot of each other... ok... by 'a bunch' i mean... pretty much all my relationships  i dont like getting involved with people... that are gonna be wanting me to change a bunch of ___ about me to be together...

coming from... your other relationship... it probably feels real weird... or wrong... but... i dont think it is... just having... good apreciation for boundaries and personal space...

my partner and i had... similar relationship... for abt 3 years... before we actually started dating... he had issues with drugs... and no way could be in a serious relationship... but... yeah... hes 11 years younger than me... and sexy as hell... soo... .  but i did my thing... and he did his... and sometimes overlapped... other times... i pulled way back... bc hed get in too deep w/drugs etc. but... i think having healthier boundaries... early on... has us in a better place... bc its not like we were dating for years... and then had to figure them out...

and... hes still the kind of guy... that i do my thing... and thats cool... and he does his... we just make a point to overlap a lot more now  

At 35 I left my H of 11 years. 3 years later - Hook up with a guy... just friends... no problem... just keeping company... .I never wanted to get into a long term relationship again.

Still used protection... .(never know what someone has that they know of or don't know)... well I never thought about kids... hell I was 35... been married 11 years...

Word of advice... protection... any type is not 100% guaranteed... .The person that you just hooked up with for a little might end up in your life forever... .

When you talk about being rude and don't care is it possible you are working out unresolved issues from your previous relationship.  I think being in a booty-call type relationship, as long as it is mutual, is one thing, but the indifference is another.  I think it is very difficult to come out of BPD hell without issues of anger. What are you getting out of this relationship outside of the sex? Do you think playing the other side of the coin will make up for the crap you've been through?

Newstart makes a point I'd been thinking about.  The relationship isn't the issue, but it almost sounds like being... .curt? gives you pleasure.  Like you are saying all the things now that you should have said then, or that you are getting a mild form of revenge  - against the wrong person.  If this person has problems, isn't it best to just leave them alone or be platonic?

You can explore the not-so-good guy within by playing Grand Theft Auto or some such.  You don't have to do it with another person, especially one who seems a little messed up and vulnerable.  I doubt it's going to help you, and it may add to your issues... .your posting here tells me there's probably some guilt going on... .

Just my opinion, not gospel... .but it's something that has been itchin' in my brain since you posted. 

im guessing the game... not recomended for real life  

you could end up meeting a whole new group of real big real friendly guys lol

 lol  Yes, dados... .keep it in the fantasy realm, unless you want to meet the big friendly guys  :)

InJourney, one last thought.  If she behaves in a messed-up, promiscuous or waifish way, there's a good chance she had experiences when she was younger that taught her that she is an object to be used.  Not healthy.  Do you really want to mess with the head of someone who just may have been sexually abused or exploited in some way?  Plus, she's much younger than you. (Though I don't know how old you are, so it may not be a big deal)

First of all, thank you all for your replies. They have been very helpful.

I wanted to post back sooner but daily life hadn't given me the chance to address your posts with the focus they require.


I don't get what you mean an0ught, could you elaborate a bit more please? I want to get what you are telling me right.

It's like that Tony, we are not making any commitments. Hey you wanna go out today? Yes/No. O.k.


Inner, yes it's a reflex. Once I read a post, one reply said something like don't worry after your relationship whenenever someone rejects you it will be like a walk in the park. Before I was afraid of rejection, it's not that I'm not anymore I just take it as it is not personal.


dados76

Thanx for your post. It does feel weired at times, some attitudes that are the same but seeing them form other perspective. And yes I don't want to end up meeting a while new group of real big friendly guys!

dsnutt45

Protection is a must! A rule. Right now I know and feel inside of me that this wont be long term. Given the way it has developed, the way we met. And the way we interact. If I don't say I have a 'relationship' with her i would be a lie. We hang out from time to time. So to say it's nothing is not true.


Newstart

I know it has to do with unresolved issues from my previous relationship. Which? That I don't know. =)

Playing the other side won't make up for what happen with uBDPxgf besides they are two different persons with one I had a realtionship in which at some point I wanted to spend the rest of my life. Here I met someone with identifiable traits but in a completely different context. It will never make up for the crap because even if I tasted the crap, which I didn't like, I have no payback feeling about ex (today, tomorrow who knows! =) )

Indifference in the form of if I see her its ok if I don't its ok. Not getting involved emotionally beyond a point. She knows why we go out, the way we fool around, beyond that point there won't be nothing. I know her prefferences switch.

Once she asked me: So you are looking to have a serious relationship with me?  Me: No, absolutely not.

The other day she called me and asked me if I wanted to go out, call began to get flirty I responded. she told me she wasn't into men that day. I said I'm into woman today so lets better see ourselfs some other  day. She kinda hesitated and said. O.k., but don't forget I like you very much.

So it's no about sex 'per se'.

Mousee,

I was afraid of your post, they are like acupuncture.

You know what I think yes being curt gives me some pleasure in this particular interaction, the way things started It has been the game all the way. It wasn't that I was nice or her, it started that way and continues that way. So I trully don't think nor feel is a mild form of revenge, not at all.

Guilt?... .I think of it more like a "guilty pleasure"

I have to take a good insight about what you posted.


Posted that way sounds no fun. They really got an impact on me. Thank you.

I really don't know how to express what's in my mind... .

All the things you say are true to some extent.

Absolutely I don't want to mess with her head. I'm not lookig forward to change her, nor to solve any kind of issues in her. Just to have a good time when we go out, if something I don't like happens I state it. She knows what I want. She might say I'm not sure, I don't know still she goes out. If I don't want to go out I'll tell her. If she goes back to her gf she would tell me she can't go out that day. It's simple yet full of  |> thats why I say I'm playing the other side of the coin.

I guess the base line here is that I'm not lying, i'm taking it for what it is.


Thank you all for your posts, they really got me thinking I still have things to process. The fact of writing it here as it comes out is therapeutic. Some things still I'm shy to share, you know. What might they think or say (residual  my-issueshere)  :)

"The gem cannot be polished without friction, nor man perfected without trials."

What a perfect quote for us who post here.


IJTO, when I'm posting about serious, deep stuff, I often get the feeling that I'm opening up some shyness or a vulnerable spot.  Like it really surprises me that I end up trusting the system enough to reveal things I didn't even realize I felt.  That in itself is a healing thing.  And the feedback seems best when it's more tough-love "acupuncture" if you will, along with the  warm  hug.  I really fought against that when I first started up here -- I needed to point the finger because no one would believe X's double life. 

I think in healing we gravitate to the insights that on some level we know we need.  Instinctively we know that all support (painting white) or all criticism(painting black) won't do it -- we've already lived there.

   Well, I like your honesty.  It takes a strong person to post something like htis, then examine it.  Very strong.  Stuff like this helps us heal, IMO.

And for the record, if you ever see me holding a needle or any other sharp object, run the other way.  I'm a klutz!  :)

This reminds me of what I experienced after the dust settled.  When you're left with yourself and there's no outlet for the rage you feel.  I found myself becoming a cynic- really trying to fend off *this need for the emotional eruptions that I had been used to* while dealing with the BPD and NPD people in my life.  There were times when I just had to have an outlet for the aggression or I would burst into anger.  When you start seeking stand-ins for the BPDex, look out.

This is one of the reasons that therapists say you shouldn't date for awhile. The longer you stay alone, the more you get a sense of your issues, rather than projecting them onto another Human being who may not deserve it. Justification of whether or not your behavior is correct based on an interpretation of the value of another isn't a healthy way to get to the bottom of things. Nobody deserves bad behavior.

Have to say, this concern bubbled up in my mind too. Exploiting - unintentionally or not - someone's mental illness is not cool. Just something to watch out for.

Auspicious, et. al.

You really got me thinking. I trully don't feel I'm exploiting someone, there are issues and red-flag... .yes.

I have been honest about the way we hang around when we see each other and how we interact. Nevertheless your words are buzzing inside me, some how it is not cool even if everything is clear.

Guess that is why I limit going out with her a lot. I have to be 'in the mood' to go out with her. I.e. today she told me she is having a party at her house and asked me if I was going to go. Well I'm here posting so I am starting to get that feeling that I don't belong there. And to be honest I have this gut feeling that I shall not go. If a mutual friend goes I might, but as I haven't reach my friend I'll stay home.

You... .you... .you really got me thinking. Thank you

Feels sort of weird to give you a smiling thumbs-up about staying home, not going out to a party, but I think you know what I mean.  Recovery is so much about trusting those gut feelings again.

So, a hug instead. xoxox

Journey, like I said... .owning this stuff takes so much more strength than a lot of people have.  Be proud of yourself |iiii