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I know that this is a grey topic that maybe should go into the "Leaving" board but I intentionally put it in here for those who are undecided.

6 months ago I broke up with my (now ex)uBPD girlfriend.  I caught her lying to me about where she was at night (she said she was working, and then had a flight for work, and she wasnt even there until 3pm the next day), I assume she was cheating or engaging in cheating-like behavior.  I was cheated on before it was devastating, so for me the decision to leave was made pretty well right there.

However in the prior-math where I had many thoughts that you people may be having right now:

- She is sick with this BPD, is it right to leave her because of this disorder?

- Maybe I can help her get better, if I am patient?

- Inside she is a really good person, I remember from when our relationship first started, maybe with time I can help her find that person again?

- Things are really awful sometimes but sometimes things are really good, should I leave just because she can't control her temper?

- She is very demanding but she is actually making me into a better person, is this really such a bad thing?

As you contemplate whether to stick it through or leave these and a variety of other thoughts will come into your head.  As part of the rules of this board I can't tell you to leave or stay and I wont.  That decision is one that you will have to ultimately make.  If you dont make it yourself and you let someone (on this board, friend, family member, colleague) pressure you to make it, then you will ultimately be dragged into the FOG over and over again as the BPD person walks into your life, gives you hope, then walks out again, trashing your dreams.  If you make the decision and are firm you will net much better results.

What you will learn after having a BPD partner and trying to cope and then having it end and moving onto the next partner, however are some relationship and life skills that virtually no other experience will give you.

It's kind of like relationship training on steroids.  Those little bad habits we have in forming relationships are greatly amplified with a BPD partner.  Give in a little too often?  The BPD partner will have you giving in almost all the time.  A little too quick to "fight back" in an argument?  The BPD partner and you will have some extreme fireworks of fights escalating to the ultimate levels.  A bit too eager to please?  The BPD will have you running around in circles while walking on eggshells trying to keep the peace.  Its actually, while very debilitating for them, quite amazing how the disorder gives them the ability to grab a little frayed thread in your relationship skills and just rip it away, leaving the relationship in tatters.

As you will learn on this board no matter what route you choose, at it's very core in order to realize what the heck is happening in your relationship and what it is that YOU want, is establishing boundaries.  With a BPD partner it is a very scary proposition, because they have the tendency to escalate every conflict to the maximum damage potential.

Rule 1:  They start a conflict over something you dont think warrants conflict, simply disengage.  Leave the room, the house, the block, whatever it takes, just disengage completely.

This one thing you will find will give you so much peace of mind but it is so hard to do the first few times.  They will scream and throw things at you to try to continue the conflict, but simply saying "This isnt worth fighting over.  I'm done talking about this." and walking away can make you feel so empowered without "losing" the argument or conflict.  You'll also be totally amazed at how quickly the BPD will change channels and not be raging when you return and re-engage to them.

Rule 2: A demand made, is a demand that should not be filled

BPDs are awesome at making demands.  Whether it's watering the flowers, painting the house, making dinner, or choosing your friends they will make demands.  Usually the verbalized or non-verbalized threat is that they will either leave you if you dont do it or that they will make your life a living hell.

However GRAB yourself before you just go and do it to keep the peace.  Think to yourself, "I am my own person.  I'm not going to let anyone DEMAND that I do frickin' anything".  If the BPD says to you "Why didnt you do X! I told you to do X! You never do what I tell you to do!"  Simply say, "I dont do demands.  If you asked me nicely, I may have considered it.  But since you demanded it, I'm not doing it.  Maybe ask nicer next time, honey attracts more bees than vinegar" then if conflict ensues, resort to rule number 1.

This is another empowering thing.  After a long time in a close relationship with your BPD you will get a sense that you have completely lost control of your own life.  That you are living a life under the control of someone else, that there is this awful and ever longer set of "rules" that you must live by, growing and changing so fast that you can't even quite keep up with it. 

I myself found that it was the demands that took the worst toll.  I'm a pretty tough person and I can have someone scream and yell at my face and call me all sorts of names and I can just say to them, "Are you done yet?", calmly.  However it was the constant trying to "keep the peace" by giving into their demands to avoid that barrage in my face that I found totally was draining my life-force.

When you learn Rule 1 and Rule 2, next is to take a solid assessment of what it is that you want.  Do you still want to be in this relationship?  Now that you're not running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, trying to appease this person in your world and constantly doing the things that they demand you do, what is your relationship like? 

You're getting yourself back.  Do you want to live like this? 

My own test is this:

A relationship should be enjoyable at least most of the time for both partners or it should be immediately discontinued.

Ask yourself:  Is your relationship enjoyable most of the time?

You will undoubtably find it MORE enjoyable once you've mastered 1 and 2.  However you may also start to see more clearly, how you have found it to be VERY UNENJOYABLE for a long time.

You may want to either choose to end the relationship (and if this is your choice, do it right away, dont waffle, just get it done) or you may want to work on skills to make it more manageable. 

The first of those skills is

Rule 3: Validation (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation).  Validate that you understand what they are saying, but dont give in if you disagree.

Validation (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation) is a really nifty skill later on even if things with your BPD dont work out.  Its great for preventing fights even with a "normal" partner, and while it will work with your BPD partner most of the time, it wont always work.  Once it becomes natural you will find that the explosions are reduced, however not eliminated.

If you are at the point where you are deciding whether to leave or stay... .  I will leave you with these thoughts.  Try mastering 1 and 2 FIRST.  Then... .

Make sure your relationship is enjoyable at least most of the time.  If it's not, WALK NOW.  The act of walking away and terminating the relationship in and of itself may be enough to wake up the BPD that things are going to have to change.

If you think that your relationship is enjoyable ENOUGH of the time to stay and work it out, look at it as somewhat of a challenge.  Take to task all the skills you can learn in coping with a BPD partner.  Remember first and foremost that YOU WILL NOT FIX OR CHANGE THEM by learning these skills; but you can also look at these skills as an extremely valuable set of skills that if it doesnt work out in the end, will help you manage your future relationships so much better.

Finally; if you find that the BPD is consuming your life (not just the partner, but the research and trying to learn the skills)... .TAKE A BREAK AWAY FROM THE BPD, FAR AWAY.  I went camping a few times myself, once with a friend and once by myslelf.  The transformation of my state of mind was unbeleiveable.  With the BPD, I was "under seige" most of the time.  Even at home when she wasnt around.  Away, far away where the BPD would not be able to phone, show up, or anything, I watched as my energy level grew and my sense of self returned.  DO IT IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.  If it's not possible MAKE IT POSSIBLE.  You can only think clearly about the questions in your mind when you are not being mentally swarmed by your BPD partner.

I hope this helps you undecideds.  My ex UBPDgf was incredibly hot, sexy, beautiful, sensual.  She had gorgeous furniture and had decorated my entire house incredibly.  I feared if I told her to get out of my house I'd be sleeping on the floor in my bedroom and I'd lose all my furiture and end up living in a square box of a four bedroom house, unemployed and not able to afford new furniture.  I feared I'd lose this super-model-hot girl that looked so great on my arm and in pictures, I'd lose the phenomenal sex.

In the end, I tried and tried and tried to make it work, but I'm so glad that I ended it.  I got new furniture.  I got a new cute girlfriend (admittedly, not as hot as the BPD but whatever).  My house is redecorated. 

But most importantly of all - almost every day is an enjoyable day.  That - is what it's all about - whether your with your BPD and want to stay or not - keep your eye on that ball because that's the most important ball in the game.  Life is short, dont waste it living in a virtual hell every day.  The world out there can be a bit scary but there is so much happiness to be found.

:-D

i usually... post on the staying board... but this is all really good advice... boundaries and validation make a huge difference... overall... if validation didnt feel good... people wouldnt post here asking 'does this drive you crazy too?'

and... i also agree... if its not enjoyable most of the time... find something that is! probably not fun for the person w/BPD to be in a relationship w/somebody that is miserable most of the time either...

Wow - great advice!   |iiii

While I am super American, I officially bow down to the Canadian Guy! Seriously, this is really good. Thank you for the post.

Thanks for the thoughts.  You've made some important points. I am one of those people stuck in FOG.  I wait for the good times, but in the mean time, I suffer.  My BPD husband is actually very cruel, much of the time--the good times are getting farther and father inbetween.  I worry about whether I can ask a question--even when it's a question about something I am  practically begging to help him with---it's become very sick.  It's not that I don't see it--I just want so badly to "do the right thing."  But there never is a right thing. 

Really great post, CG.

One thing I'd add is while considering what course to take, please know that years can go by.  I waited and waited for a miracle.  The last straw, if there is one, may not be the biggest explosion -- it may not be anything in particular.  After so much escalation and drama, there may not be too much to top all the episodes that have happened.  Chances are you've already experienced a number of things that could otherwise be considered "deal-breakers."

One day, I just knew I had run out of gas, that I was doing more damage to myself by staying.  And yes, the unknown was and is scary.  If you add a whole bunch of FOG on top, it can feel overwhelming.  Get a good support system around you, and keep putting one foot in front of the other.

The best advice I got, ever, regarding X-husband who did cartwheels to avoid accountabilty and diagnosis, was that THERE IS NO SILVER BULLET that I could use to convince or "cure" him.  (Rest in peace, G.L. who gave me that advice.)

I don't mean to imply that leaving is the ONLY way to go.  Those who make the commitment to intensive therapy (e.g. DBT) can make great strides -- there are success stories here to inspire.

The biggest thing is to allow the possibility of change -- either within the relationship if that seems realistic -- or in leaving.  It's very easy to get stuck in a land where there is no closure and where new crises just keep rolling in.


Please know that the right thing, the healthiest thing is the decision which allows for the best quality of life for you.

One thing I disagree with about the original post.  I can't simply disengage as this is taken as abandonment.  I can disengage with a firm and reliable date/time at which I return.


Same thing.  We might want another thread for tipping point experiences.  Sometimes you just know it's time to leave and that knowledge happens quickly and suddenly.

I have emails documenting years of my uBPDw's emotional upheaval.  Folks, if you're on the fence about sending your therapist notes between sessions and you're not keeping a journal, it's a great way to document behavior so you can look back on it later.  In addition, one way she self-soothes is with food, and I've watched her weight creep from overweight to very obese in the 12 years I've known her.  I've heard the word "sorry" so many times I can't count. 

Sometimes you bend and you bend and something small may happen and you just get tired of things.

I live in Durham, NC.  Charlotte is only 2 hours away, maybe 2 hours 15 minutes.  We wanted to go to a concert in early February.  Them Crooked Vultures was not coming to Raleigh-Durham, and it was a work night, but we were going to make the trek.  I took a nap and woke up with an upset stomach.  Not very upset.  Just a slight bit queasy.

I told uBPDw.  There was some stress in the air before telling her but not a lot.  She reacted as if I might have norovirus or food poisoning, likening it to a trip we went on 11 years previously.  She started wondering if I could go, if we could make it, if I would be throwing up the entire way, not really clarifying the severity of things.  This is pretty common for her - developing a worst case scenario for any crisis, no matter how small.  This may be thinking she'll get fired from her job for something small.  Almost like someone can split, black/white situations, thinking the worst about a decision and not just a person.

She sat down after a bit and had what I can only describe as an "emotional seizure," just sitting and shaking a bit for about 30-60 seconds, seemingly unable to handle a small problem.  I mean, all I needed was some Tums.

This was the tipping point for me, because I surely was going to see Dave Grohl play drums and John Paul Jones.  Going to a concert?  Really?  Yes, because it represented all of the ways her emotions and her disorder get in the way of my ability to relax and experience pleasure.  At that moment I realized how much I have been held back by having to cater to her emotional distress.  I had already started emotionally withdrawing at Thanksgiving due to some family issues she had.  That confirmed things and I really started to withdraw at that time.

The calls and discussions about her family, the ranting about her job, the messy house, the tears, the madness, the sleep, the overeating, the procrastination - those are the core things, not one concert.  But you may find something simple breaks open a new way of looking at things or a simple thing may be the last straw.

I am a leaver, but this is such good advice and wonder how much difference it would have made to me a few months ago... .I don't know if I was ever strong enough to try to make things work.

I always feel leaving was the right thing to do for both of us, I wasn't the patient person that was going to make a relationship any better and I was terribly unhappy. Its not failing to not be able to cope with it either x

This is an excellent post.

Just, excellent.

And... .as far as tipping points.  I think I hit mine too, because I feel very detached and solid about what I am going to do.  I have talked to my mother (which I rarely do - we have our own issues), and I plan to go visit my family in a couple weekends to just... .I don't know... .get a support system?  I need to reconnect with them, and I need to tell them why I have been so "absent" for the last decade.  I have told the closest friend I have as well.  Everyone thus far is actually somewhat happy for me... .not what I expected, but maybe they knew something wasn't quite right.

The tipping point was just recently, after the latest rage.  It wasn't a particularly awful one, as far as history can predict, but the tipping point I *think* came a couple days later.  I was still a little upset, and she was angry with me because "I haven't done anything for a few days now!"... .I think that was it.  I think that proved to me that this cycle would be repeating itself.  I think... .that I finally had a glimpse of understanding.  She wanted the calm days to be good, she needed attention... .she had no true understanding (she did acknowledge she was "bad" of the effect her behaviors had on me, even after all this time and all this trying.

Since then things have changed in my mind.  I am fed up.  I am tired of this crap and I am not going to take it anymore.  It isn't going to change.  Yes, I set a deadline and a lot of people (including this post) say... .don't waffle, just leave.  But, I can't do it that way.  Jawadde and I seem to be in exactly the same boat... .My wife self-medicates with food as well.  And sleep... and apparently, detective shows, autopsy shows, cheaters shows, celebrity gossip, and Dr. Phil.  What a combination... .

I am a little scared, but I am beginning to move faster.  I have almost finished my "task list" and I am going to include dates for completion.  I have one friend who was willing to stick with me even through this crazy woman's reign of terror over me... .and hopefully that friend will use my task list to keep me honest.  I feel like being accountable to someone will help me continue progressing even when it gets difficult.

I am MORE excited though... .because I expect maybe three years of hell.  I expect near the end of three years, she will have exhausted every dime and every possible delay... .and I will be able to move on.  Three years of that kind of hell is a somewhat welcome proposition.

The moment of the decision --

I'm glad that I didn't have or better said, didn't react to a tipping point, in a way.  Because it would have been within the energy of one of dozens of escalating crises.

That's not to say that there weren't points when I should have said, that's it, I can't do this anymore.

But in retrospect it was not with a bang but a whimper.  And I don't like the word whimper -- it wasn't from a waif-like lowpoint of weakness.  It was just a deep voice, one that I could hardly believe came out at the moment it did (within a weekend retreat for getting in touch with deep stuff.)  It was surreal in that it was a quiet resolution yet so big of a change, like the train was running and I had to just let go and get on it.

But it never meant a lack of love -- it was more like some kind of transforming in me.

Thanks for taking the time to write this out.  It's excellence.

Same here.  The tipping point wasn't a moment of "I'm headed out the door right now."  It was "a moment of clarity" if you will.

This was true of me also, I just had no more to give, and even if I did it would not have been good enough.  So the train whistled on but my heart... .

It was the first time I've ever had to make the move to break up with someone.  Which made it a little more challenging, or poignant or something, since it was THE proactive thing I needed to do to get on with a healthier life.

Wow, I feel like I can so relate with all these postings. I felt like I was the only one living in crazyland like this. While I'm sad to hear your pain, it is so  good to hear stories that make me feel like I'm not alone.

I have been practicing the steps that were laid out above for a few months. I have decided to leave. It is irretrievably broken. I finally given up, but I made one heck of a try to make it work. I couldn't do it anymore.

I had a counselor who said 'its not not what they do, its who they are'. For some reason, this rung the magic bell in me that convinced me that I could not change the nature of who she is, no matter what I try to do. She is who she is, and I am who I am. I came to that acceptance, along with the realization that I cannot live in this situation anymore.

It is the hardest decision of my life, and I imagine a rough road ahead, but my 'deal breakers' have been broken and my heart is convinced that this will never get better. I love and care too much about myself to accept the abuse anymore.

Thank you all for sharing. Mike

I'll add one more suggestion for those who are on the fence about staying or leaving that will help you to make your own decision.

One thing that showed me in the starkest terms exactly what kind of a stomach lurching roller coaster I was on was my journal.

Reading the headlines, It would go, "Girlfriend is such an amazing woman", then "A huge fight - over nothing", then, "things seem to be normal again" then, "a great trip" then "blowout" then "things are alooking up" then "we almost broke up".

Watching it through six months of cycles when I read back through it showed me that despite the BPD's ability to cloud your mind in the FOG and focus you entirely on trying to "fix yourself" that this was in fact my BPD partner causing all of these roller coaster ups and downs in my life.

My decision was to get the heck off.  You may see that, or you may see something else.  A journal is a great way to make sense of the crazy days and the up days so you can determine for yourself whether the relationship is enjoyable most of the time or all of the time or none of the time.

In the FOG with a BPD, you get forced to live in their world - day by day just trying to cope.  They manage to project their illness onto you and you can lose yourself; they are very good at it.

So true.  You live from one crisis to the next, and by the time you are just getting used to things being normal for a few days and basking in the oasis, the next crisis comes along.

I always had had a rule for myself - a girl breaks up with me in a fight and thats it for me, I'm done.  My own sense of values is that if someone is going to pull out the nuclear option in a fight once, they will again - and that in a real relationship that's worth fighting for that option should never be on the table.

Well my BPD had me in such a FOG that she had threatened to leave me and walk out at least five times.  I wrote out a contract of things that I WOULD DO so that SHE WOULDNT THREATEN THAT anymore.  In hindsight, it was nonsense.  Why should I be itemizing a list of things that I wont do anymore so she wont threaten to leave me anymore?  In the end, she would nitpick on that list so horribly and (as we all know) conveniently forget things I had done or not done so she could show me that I failed to live up to my obligations.  Instead of threatening to leave she was threatening not to accept or remember my actions.  It just transferred the problem somewhere else.

Months went by (and for some of you I know it's years) and those months were totally wasted.  Giving 110% of my energy to try to keep the peace, keep some normalcy for a while.  In the end, I was more concerned about losing her furniture than losing her.  The tranquility after she was gone was deafening.   The freedom to just do whatever I wanted felt weird.

That relationship taught me some really significant lessons.  Never again will I let a significant other tell me what I can and cant do.  Never again will I allow my own identity or sense of self to be dominated by someone else.  If someone is treating me badly, I'll tell them to stop and if they dont I'll just leave, or hang up the phone, after telling them why I'm about to hang up.  If someone crosses one of my boundaries, I'm going to tell them exactly what they've done and rectify the situation immediately.  In summary; never again will I find myself dragged well out of my comfort zone negotiating over my own boundaries.

I had some issues with that before in previous relationships before the BPD.  Of course normal women never really took the ball and ran with it like the BPD did, although from time to time it was a problem. 

My current girlfriend sometimes tests my boundaries, or pulls "trips" on me.  I just say to her now (something that I never really would have done before the BPD), "Listen, you are treating me really badly and I dont deserve it.  I love you but I'm not going to sit around and be berated.  Do you want me to leave?  If not then maybe lets have a constructive conversation.  I hear that you are upset and I want to know your viewpoint but coming at me like this is not constructive."

If she keeps it up, I do leave.  I just say, "Well I guess we can talk about this tomorrow then when you're not so grouchy."   If not, then we either change the topic or the tone of the conversation. 

Sometimes people want to just run roughshod over you in a relationship, regardless of the state of their mental health.  They learn it from dysfunctional idiosyncrasies in their parents relationships.  I have had girlfriends who's mothers lorded over and dominated their fathers and/or stepfathers, so naturally the girlfriend feels that once she's in a stable permanent relationship, she should be doing the same.  I dont like being lorded over.  Period.  Adapt or its over.

canadaguy98-

a very good read- i've yet to read all replies etc (i'm in work & my mind is on staying or going- similar to you because of an 'infidility' issue) you're advice is sound and much needed and helps big time in this constant battle in my mind!  but what's made me laugh so much is that my uBPDbf is hooked on steriods so that little quote above has just made me laugh out loud!   lol  Anyway, i am now going to read on... .thanks for sharing  |iiii  x

Hi Canadian guy and all who post here.  This is my first post, I haven't even introduced myself yet, but I am 28+ years into a relationship with a BPD.  I am a terrible codependent (getting better and better, but still . . . .)  and this is my FIRST relationship, and I jumped for it because I thought I was so flawed it was my only chance at love.  Hah!  I've been trying to leave since the early days, and I've been trying to figure it out and fix it for the whole time too.

I like the advice about leaving.  What do you say to the following, please?  I could use some feedback.  These are some of the main stumbling blocks that keep me from leaving (aside from the usual: what a pain in the ass it would be, financial instability, do I really want to).

1.  My BPD has been chronically ill our entire relationship and now has emphysema (mild), osteoporosis and a horrendous immune system.   I feel I should not abandon a sick person.

2.  My BPD  is retiring in July.  Seems like a pretty crappy time to leave.  I know there's no good time . . .  Shall I see how it is six months into retirement?

3.  There have been a lot of good things, and we have such a long history together.

I am feeling that I'm closer than ever to freeing myself (within or without the relationship) and my boundaries are clearer than ever, but the years of being the "default queen", of doing everything that needs to be done and being a supportive partner and being criticized as never enough have taken their toll on my in terms of stress and exhaustion. 

That's all I can say right now.  It feels scary just to write this, the possibility of being discovered. 

Thanks for being there.

CG98, you explained the living conditions with your ex so well and with such good advice. I wish I'd read something like this decades ago. Especially before deciding to have a child when a parent gets busy raising him/her while trying to keep the dysfunctional behavior at bay. Even then it is easier to leave then to stay, but it does not feel that way most of the time. Now aging has taken a toll. Leave when you are young and that includes 40's and 50's! After 60 your doctor tells you what you can do and a therapist states she is to tell you to stay with him.

I used to look at how he and I lived as the good times being interrupted by the occasional scene and mean words to me, rather than the good times preceeded and followed by the ugly scenes that made me feel defeated each time. It is hard to think during those times, so as Innerspirit said, take advantage of a moment the answer is clear to you. I think about solutions during a calm period when I can concentrate. In the land of crazy answers and excuses, save yourself.

CG98, I'm so glad you have escaped defeated feelings. It is great to hear about how you did it.

CG, what I like most about your post is the great amount of time and care you gave to us, the readers. I truly appreciate your experience and the knowledge you acquired about yourself and your former partner. Thank you so much. I have been through much of the same and remain on the fence at the moment. My SO has finally been officially diagnosed and has opted for treatment with a renowned specialist. Yes, I have confirmed this for all of those who are as suspicious as I am. If anyone remembers my other posts, I had an issue with simply leaving without getting her the care she required. In spite of some of your protests, I also gave her books on the subject and while she was a little surprised, I believe that it was comforting to her to have at least a name for what she was living through.

I will continue with my own lessons and make a decision when the time is right for me.

Thank you again.

1. You feel like you should not abandon a sick person

I think that a lot of those who choose to stay feel the same way, simply about the BPD itself.  I know that I felt that way about her BPD.  I wanted to help her find help, to be there for her to try to help her acheive a better quality of life.  You mention a variety of other medical issues.

The point is simple: if it's enjoyable at least most of the time then you may want to stay.  If it's not enjoyable at least most of the time (ie. not enjoyable most of the time) then you will want to leave. 

Just because someone is sick doesnt give them license to treat you poorly.  In fact, they are sick and you are trying to care for them, they should treat you as well as they can.  It's hard to go out and play "the dating game" when you're medically laid up and you have a mental disorder.  Its YOU who has all the options - you could leave and meet a healthy person.  They will need to find a caregiver in a partner which isn't easy to find.

The person your with needs to learn that it's YOU who holds all the cards, not them.  I'd say to you, if your being treated badly, walk.

2. Your partner is retiring in July

To be honest, its better for you to walk BEFORE they retire than after.  At least then, once they retire their own friendship and work network will help them find things to do because they are single.  If you wait until after they retire, everyone in their support network will figure that your partner will be just fine and is being looked after by you; it will be your grieving partner (if BPDs even greive the loss of relationships) who will need to pick up the phone and call others for support (very hard for a BPD to do).  At least if you leave before the transition into retirement, everyone will be stepped in to help with the transition.


-

I hate the counselling and thearpy machine, it tends to over-coach people to place their own needs first, creating selfish, rude people.  However in the above questions I think that you really do need to say to yourself, "Why am I going to continue to suffer for months and months, while this sick person treats me badly.  How much is enough?"

You only live one life.  Make sure it's spent enjoyably.

CG98... .I just wanted to say that this is an unbelievable post  |iii

Such a fantastic post. Thanks Canada.

oh my god, I totally forgot how THAT feels, its been so long. 

I remember times when I would either be posting in my journal or writing an e-mail to my family or posting here always ready to kill the window so she wouldn't stumble across it.

Take care of yourself.

Yep -- just the thought of it sends my heart racing again -- here I am sitting in the same room where he might have discovered what I was doing. 

But somehow, I really think that an instinct for self-preservation kicked in amid all the F.O.G. -- I knew I was doing what was healthiest for me.

Hang in there, LTC -- and trust that inner voice you have.

i did not want to leave... or just excuse her fom my life... .if she would have really worked on herself ,, marriage was a consideration... .and she did go to the t and the p and took the meds... but she did so for me... only for demonstraion puposes... nothing was helping.

so when her family, her therapist., her psych... .told me i was killing myself over this... in every area of my life...

they gave me the reality checks i needed... and showed me the things my rose colored glasses... would not allow me to see... .

i had to cut the line that was pulling my boat under... .

Hi everyone... .i have been married for 5 years now and just 2 days ago found out about BPD... .and now this site.Thank you God!... i have been feeling horrible for the past years as I was so confused and felt like the worst wife... I coulden't for the life of me understand my husband's behaviour... although i am a very strong woman and have been through hard times before this BPD experience takes the cake... .wow... .still in shock but so releived... .thank you for all your postings... .they soo help me understand why the heck i've been down about... .




*welcome*

finally,  *welcome* - glad you found this place, finally!  :)

Be sure to make an intro post of your story on L1.

Thanks Mike for that!   I have not decided what to do next as i just found out about BPD 3 days ago!  My husband of 4 years has this and man its been quite the ride. Now that i know that i'm not crazy not loosing my mind... .i can make a thought out descision! one thing is for sure... I love him but I love me more! |iiii

yes thank you   and I did!

Hi Finally! I'm glad to see you posting. And about that... .That statement is the best I have heard in a long while!  |iiii

Here too.

Not just a cliche, loving someone and living with them are two very different things.  I wouldn't have believed it, but it sure was a whole lot more intense than not putting the cap back on the toothpaste.  (Uh -- unless I was the one who forgot to do it.)

Great post, Canadaguy98!  It's also good to hear that you've got your life back on track.

I guess I qualify as a guy who pretty much followed this format too, but without really expressing it as clearly as you did here!  So far, I have stayed in the marriage though.  I regained control over my life and ulitmately learned what my boundaries were in the relationship.  Just doing those things improved the relationship to the point where it is now more enjoyable than not.  I still think a better relationship is possible with someones else, but I also have three kids and have been married for 16 years now.  It's an ongoing process and I constantly take a fresh look at whether this is what I want--but it's firmly my decision to stay or go now.

Thanks!

Thanks Briefcase, for sharing your example of regained control, better defined boundaries, ongoing process and fresh perspective.

Which, beyond the stay/leave decision, is really about a healthy life, isn't it.

Hello all.  I am the original poster of this topic, i lost that email account and havent been around here for a very long time.  In looking for my old account name i found this thread, and it was so good that i figured i would bump it.  It really is good advice for those considering staying or leaving a BPD partner.

I stumbled back upon this site when looking for info on escaping maternal narcissm and going no contact - and realized that my narcissitic mother is what caused me to be vulnerable to falling in love with, and hanging on to, a BPD partner.  Ive made a post in L6.

I truly feel for those in the throes of dealing with whether to stay with or leave a BPD partner.  I took a lot of care in writing this original post.  I do hope it helps some of you just arriving to sort out your situations and make your decision.  It can be heart wrenching.  Hopefully my old post helps you find abbit of clarity in your day to day struggle to find inner peace. 

I cant stress enough, the vacation from the BPD partner to sort your head out.  Camping, fishing, anywhere where you cant be expected to be reachable by cell phone.  Sometimes in the daily cut and thrust you really do sort of lose your mind, and getting away for 4-5 days can help you make sense of things where you cant when your fearing the next episode, blowout, or explosion.

Compassionately eliminating pain and problems =  |iiii

Love this post- thank you Canada guy/computerology

I love the way it applies to staying or leaving. A good friend of mine years ago said, when working out where you are in a relationship, just think, does he make you happy more or less than 50% of the time? Applies to all relationships, BPD or not!

You didn't mention whether you wee in love with your ex; just that you'd miss the furniture and the great stuff she offered you!

I haven't seen him for 16 days - tried to do No Contact. He contacted me a couple of times in odd ways - ie, wrong number, text to ask if I sent him a text. I was OK for a while but yesterday I just crumbled - absolutely went to pieces.

The thing is, I am autistic, and very alone - a couple of friends I see once in a while, no family - I mean that literally. I had got used to living alone, over the decades, but I never enjoyed it. Now after the drama of the separation, I can see the road ahead and it makes me feel so lonely. I find it very hard to speak to people, let alone make relationships. It was hard with him, but it'd be harder alone (I know that isn't a good reason to make contact).

Also, while I knew he had some vague diagnosis of personality disorder, we never talked about it and I didn't investigate it till we broke up. Now I find it answers most of my questions about him. There are a a lot of forums where PD people are describes as satan incarnate - I took comfort there for a while - but I think the stance here is better.

When I read about BPD symptoms - the unstable emotions, the terror of being abandoned, the black-and-white thinking - I could be reading about autism. Indeed, for many years, before I even really knew about autism, let alone had a diagnosis, I used to say I feared people because I was terrified of being overwhelmed or abandoned. So I think that he and I are very similar in that respect.

But does that mean we could learn to live together, or does that mean we'd just hurt each other over and over again?

I want him back but I don't know if I can do it. I have to accept the bad-tempered, not-listening thing may be his default state. I have to accept he'll march out of here and say it's over. I have to accept that his emotions are forever strung out, at fever pitch, and my own are the same because of autism.

Yet what else? Learning to live a dry, lonely life again, with books and cats? Or maybe hooking up with someone else who had a PD, or autism - both things the person cannot help, both of which are difficult.

I read something in the Guardian on Saturday - about how there's all this torrent of good advice on the net and in books, but sometimes the best thing to do is do nothing. Keep a watching brief. When I am calmer (and being here helps) I can do that.

Sometimes I also think of what is called, in the autism community, "sperging out" - simply being who the hell you are and damn the trying-to-be-normal, trying-to-be-nice. It's such a colossal strain, you know, tring to act non-autistic, having to make eye contact and speak to people and pretend you're relaxed and happy with people to avoid hurting their feelings, when all you want to do is go  home and go on the net - just "being normal" is exhausting.

Just some thoughts, anyway... .

Canada guy/computerology

Thank you for the bump of this old post.  This past Wednesday before Thanksgiving my uBPDw again kicked me out of the bedroom and pulled out the I want a divorce, set me free card.  After 2 years of therapy for me, I decided that was the last time.  I didn't know what it was called, but I do now - I hit the tipping point.

Like many others, it wasn't a bang but just something inside of me that clicked and said enough is enough.  She flew through major dysregulation for a couple days, alternating between demanding that I help her fill out the divorce paperwork so she could turn it in to her lawyer to begging me not leave and to go back to marital counseling.

She keeps imploring me to go back to a different marital counselor since she cut off the one we we were going to a year ago.  She said she wanted to go to one who would immediately focus on dealing with feelings and emotions, and not let us get distracted by arguments about the kids or dishes like the last one.  I started to waver until I talked to my therapist and he bluntly said, so she wants to go to counseling but only under the conditions she sets - hmmm sounds like manipulation.

I have been sleeping on the couch ever since.  Today I took a day off work to fix up some stuff around the house and I had more energy than I have had in years.  I realized just how much I missed the peace and quiet of being by myself with my own thoughts.

I really appreciate this thread. I'm in the process of detaching. Like some of the other posters above, I don't think I can just up and leave right away, although I want to. I might be in luck as she wants to move out of the state. She might even do it before the lease is up. She says she wants to make the best of things until her departure, but she obviously goes back and forth on that. I try not to think about the previous 6 years as I look forward to what is hopefully less than 9 months from now. Then, I shall travel without a concern for what she thinks I'm up to. Right now, as long as I am with her, I can't travel far enough away to feel comfortable and at peace.

Good thread!

I left my BPD almost 2 years ago and am currently married to a wonderful woman! I don't visit the forums anymore but dropped in because of the support request.  Here are my thoughts.


I found that living with a person with BPD was very damaging to myself, I was stressed all the time, overweight and unhealthy mentally and physically.  Living in fear of the next blow-up while hoping for things to change was the most insane thing.  I know she was sick and I know it was hard for her but I still feel if a BPD wants to change they can participate in the processes.  She was never willing to take real steps to help herself and all I had to look forward to was a life of misery.  I could not sacrifice my happiness forever for someone that could not give me barely anything in return.


That is the dream that each of us nons have and we tell ourselves this to make it through each day... .but the reality seems to be that very few BPD's get better and the price you have to pay to 'be patient' is enormous. I think you have a better chance of hitting the lottery numbers for millions.


I won't say whether BPD's are not good people or not but the person you saw at the beginning of the relationship was a glimpse of yourself, so you probably are a good person.


I told myself this as well... .but the truth is that the destruction that a BPD spreads throughout her friends and family is much worse that simply losing her temper. And the really good times, I found were much more fleeting and far between as the relationship went on (I was with her for 4.5 years). Plus in retrospect I wonder how good the good times really were, they were much better than the bad times but it is all relative.


If left unchecked a BPD will destroy everything you like or love about yourself.  For me BPD was like a black cloud eating away at you from the inside, it destroys your self esteem, your health and makes you feel scared, angry and depressed.

This is one of the best threads I have seen in a while. Maybe the best for me personally.


If I had know about BPD within the first 10 years of my realtionship I just wonder where I would be and if I would have my family and frineds. They will destroy everything. Its not imediate. Slow enough and convinsingly enough throughout that time that you won't truly know until its too late.  Example for me. I had a great realtionship with my family. I had a small set of good friends. 12 years later... .I have not talked to any friends since my wedding day. I have not been able to see my family in 7 years. I missed my brothers wedding and I have a niece an nephew I have never seen before yet live 4 hours away and I am told they ask about me when they see my picture at my parents. I still have secret email contacts with them while I am at work. It is not good enough but its better than nothing.

Update.  2 days ago I posted about how peaceful my day alone was.  Yesterday I saw my therapist in the afternoon and had an awesome session.  I also realized that over the last couple of years that in about 95% of our sessions I would come in shaking my head and and relating the latest chaos that my uBPDw had brought to my family.

Yesterday evening uBPDw and I jointly attended a wake for an acquaintance and then went to dinner together.  She clearly was attempting to begin yet another recycle.  As we sat in the restaurant I realized that I am done.  Within an hour we were having the conversation that I never was able to find the strength to have - where I told her that I found the situation to be hopeless and yes I suppose that I did feel divorce was the best option.  She summarily demanded that I pack a bag and leave the house - which I had already done.

After a few more horrific texts and emails last evening, she was in prime rage this morning, starting off by telling my D20 that she would not pay her tuition, followed up by locking me out of the family bank account, albeit unintentionally.  A few more demanding, accusing emails and texts later, I made it through the day.  The evening concluded with an email from the stbX stating that she had reviewed her old emails and indeed confirmed that I never loved her.  She also stated that she that she wished me well in the future but hoped that would understand what love is before I "take another innocent life."

Then she apologized for not leaving me years ago when I showed my faults, intimated that I am secretly homosexual and closed with a jab that I am a bad lover.  Then she went on again to wish me peace and tell me she thinks that this will be the best thing that happens to both of us.

Yep, I did the right thing.

Well done for having the strength to do this.

I might well be having one of these conversations soon myself