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Boundary Issues: 5 Warning Signs Of Unhealthy Boundaries

Steve Safigan





About the Author: Steve Safigan is a motivational speaker for "Foundations".  Foundations sells personal-development workshops. In a two-day workshop the company claims they will teach you to take a look at yourself to find powerful and effective ways to improve your life; honest assessments of how well you’re doing and where you’re holding yourself back; clear understandings of what controls your emotional world and how to better control every area of your life.  Cost: $795 (includes hotel and meals) www.articlesnatch.com/  (http://www.articlesnatch.com/Article/Boundary-Issues--5-Warning-Signs-Of-Unhealthy-Boundaries/799056#ixzz0idTZtxkI)

"Boundaries are one of the most critical components for establishing healthy relationships. Boundaries are the tools we use to establish who we are and how we want to be treated. Establishing boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) is a sign of self-respect and ultimately teaches others to treat us with respect.

Yet boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) are also a common source of conflict and tension. When you aren't clear about your boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries), it's impossible for other people to recognize and respect your boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries), which results in them inadvertently taking advantage of you. When your boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) are violated, you feel a whole host of negative emotions, such as anxiety, irritation, guilt and anger. You may believe that you're being taken advantage of or treated poorly; you may even begin to feel that you are worth less than other people.

The long-term effects of porous boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) can be severe. You feel increasingly stressed, as you continually choose other people over yourself. You feel guilty for disrespecting yourself and letting other people impose on you. You become increasingly angry, irritable and resentful and find yourself unmotivated to participate in life, even falling into a deep depression. You may become so exhausted and consumed by others' lives that you feel as if you have no life of your own.

The impact on you is merely the beginning. If you dismiss or bury your feelings -- a common reaction among people who struggle to set boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) -- you'll begin to resent the person who violated your boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries), and your relationship will grow increasingly tense. A person with healthy boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) learns to say "yes" without resentment and "no" without guilt.

However, boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) may cause problems with some people in your life even when you are good at setting and protecting them. "Boundary crashers" are individuals who refuse to respect or even acknowledge a rule that another has set up. These people believe that their needs are more important than the rights of others to say what happens to their bodies, minds, emotions or lives. They will manipulate to get what they want, employing tactics like guilt, anger or force to ensure that their needs are met.

Are Your Boundaries Healthy?

If you've been living with unhealthy or nonexistent boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) for most of your life, you may struggle to recognize whether your boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) are healthy. Here are 5 warning signs for which to watch:

1. You feel like you are covering something up or keeping a secret. Not only is this a sign that your boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) are unhealthy, but it's also likely that you are enabling another person to engage in unhealthy or unproductive behavior. A classic, dramatic example is a woman who hides the physical abuse she suffers at her spouse's hands by making up stories about how she bruised herself by falling down or running into a doorway. Yet secrets can much more mundane. For example, you might tell your neighbor that you're cleaning your teenage son's room because he's been so busy with school and athletics, when in fact, he refuses to clean and you've decided it's less stressful to do the work yourself.

2. You have to do something a certain way or modify your behavior so that someone else can continue an unproductive or unsafe behavior. For example, you must regularly work late and miss family obligations because a co-worker keeps missing her deadlines. Or you can't turn on the television to watch your favorite morning news program because your husband is hung over after yet another late night carousing with friends at the local bar.

By modifying your behavior, you become an enabler -- you make it possible for someone else to continue a negative behavior. Instead, you should establish and maintain your boundary (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries). Doing so will cause the other person discomfort, perhaps enough that he or she would be motivated to examine and change the unproductive behavior.

3. You ignore your own discomfort, anger, anxiety or fear so that someone else can be happy and comfortable. For example, when your partner yells at you, do you request her to not yell at you and offer to talk when emotions aren't as heated, or do you bite your tongue, figuring that it's easier to swallow your anger at being treated disrespectfully vs. possibly angering her even more? Anger, anxiety, fear and other uncomfortable emotions are hard-wired into human beings to help us recognize when our boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) are being violated. Ignoring your own uncomfortable emotions sends a signal -- to yourself and to others -- that you don't respect yourself. It may work as a short-term strategy for avoiding conflict. But ultimately, it will lead to bigger problems.

4. You sacrifice your own goals, projects and self-care to help others. The root cause of boundary (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) issues is fear. When you have a hard time saying "no," it's typically because you fear losing something, such as approval, status, friendship, future opportunities and the like. If you've reached the point of being resentful when people ask you to do things for them -- even if they are things that should bring you joy -- your boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) are unhealthy and need to be toughened up.

5. You manipulate to get what you want. This warning sign will resonate with you if you regularly push or violate other people's boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) -- that is, if you can be honest enough to admit it to yourself.

Manipulation comes in many forms. For instance, you might try getting others to feel guilty for not meeting your demands, such as the mother who tries to make her daughter feel bad for not coming home for the holidays. In some instances, you might find yourself flat-out telling others that they are responsible for you, your results and/or your feelings, such as the emotionally abusive spouse who says he wouldn't have to yell if his wife wouldn't make him so angry. You might also find yourself pouting or having a tantrum because you don't get what you want or repeatedly bugging someone to give you want you want, even after they say no. You may even ridicule or shame others who attempt setting a boundary (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries); after all, if they don't like your behavior, it's their problem.

If you regularly crash boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries), it's likely that you don't have many meaningful relationships. The people in your life have a hard time trusting you, because you choose to manipulate rather than treating them with love and respect. It's also likely that you've been told more than once -- and perhaps even can admit to yourself -- that you tend to be loud, obnoxious, pushy, rude or, on the flip side, quiet but passively aggressive.

Admitting that you are a boundary (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) violator is difficult. It's difficult to admit to things we don't like to see. It's difficult to admit that we're afraid that we won't get what we want. And it's difficult to believe that you're valuable enough that other people will love and care for you on their own, without you demanding the attention.

The realization that you are a boundary (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) violator often brings up shame and guilt. You know that you haven't treated people with respect, trust and kindness -- the same way you'd like to be treated.

But being a boundary (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) violator is not something to feel ashamed of, nor is having weak boundaries (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) something about which you should be embarrassed. It's simply the way that you learned to do life. You can change -- if you want to. The first, and often hardest, step is admitting that you have boundary (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries) issues. Admitting the problem opens space to learn healthier ways to respond to the fears in your life."

An important life-skill is defining and keeping personal boundaries. A lot of us here are unsure how to go about it. We might not know how to define them, nor how to implement them.

One aspect of the process of  creating our boundaries is being aware of the difference between healthy and unhealthy ones. This article points out how to know that our boundaries are unhealthy.

Another aspect is defining our boundaries by our values. Say you have the value that you don't think it's right to cuss or scream at people. A boundary based on this value could be "When someone cusses or screams at me, I will leave the room". Boundaries without values tend to become ultimatums about what other people should do, rather than what we accept and how we will react if our boundary is crossed.

Here are some points that we can talk about to create more awareness on our part:

• What are some boundaries you have now or that you have had in the past that are actually unhealthy?



• How did you come to make this a boundary?



• How can you change that into a healthy one?



• Which value is it based on?

GAH! I resemble the "porous boundaries" mentioned in the article!

I used to have the boundary that I would not talk about my husband's behaviors to others that might give someone else a negative view of him.

I thought I was "protecting" him and the way people saw our family and relationship, even though I was really uncomfortable with the drama that would go on in our family.

The way I've changed it is to realize that i'm not responsible for the choices he makes to be loud or belittling etc., and share with close friends who are my support system, and with my grown children, since I really need to be heard and have my needs seen as well. Just because i'm the quieter of the two of us doesn't mean my feelings don't matter!

Hmm... .what value is this built on? I think honesty. I've been a righteous enabler for years, and the truth was, my kids all knew what things were like and so what was I hiding from them anyway? And I deserve to have the support of my friends. And I need to let my husband be responsible for his own behavior.

I've come a long way, but i'm still learning how to define my values and boundaries--I've spent soo many years of my life being the enabler type, first with my uBPD/NPD mother, and then with my uBPDh... .it's too bad I need to change, enabling was one of my best "skills."

Oh geez!  I was all about #4!  I think it stemmed from the belief that doing was more important than being.  I can still hear my mother's words ringing in my ears although she's been gone over a decade... ."do this like a good girl."  I associated what I did for others with being "good" and carried that with me into adulthood. 

The result was several very dysfunctional relationships where I was doing more and more and becoming resentful because I felt it was expected of me.  I never felt that I could do enough. 

Oddly enough, it was my BPDh who pointed out that I was saying yes to things I wanted to say no to and then complaining about it!  I still do too much, but now I choose the things on my "to do list" and if it isn't what others want me to do, so be it... .let them cry and call me a b*#ch.  At least now I can cross things off my list even if they aren't completed because it's my list! 

I'm not sure I answered the question, but hey... .it's my choice!

rockylove-- now that you brought up the numbered points above I had to go back and look. I was all about numbers 1 through 4   The only one I didn't identify with was number 5, since either I'm too honest to manipulate or just not clever enough! lol

It's painful to look back at those points and realize how sucked into those negative patterns I was, but at least it makes me feel a bit better about what I've changed in me.

Scarlet Phoenix,

This from the opening of the article explains so much of my previous victim mentality--I've always struggled with self-worth issues, and have only in the past couple of years begun to accept myself and find that I actually do love myself, and that's been the result of seeing things realistically and firming up my boundaries:


I would think this would be a common result for most of us to having unhealthy boundaries, not being able to see our own worth?

lol


I was exactly the same! Then, like you, I came to realise that I am not helping him by hiding his behaviours. I don't go around telling everyone I know, but I'm not afraid to talk about it with our friends and his family who live close by. It has happened for example that he's been raging and calling me names before going to family functions. Before I would go and pretend nothing was wrong. Now I say that I don't wish to go with someone who talks to me that way and I call and give my excuses saying that dBPDbf has gone off on me and that I'm not going to come. None of them seem to hold this against me. They understand.



He, he, good on you listening to your inner needs and wants!


I like that you've been able to firm up your boundaries and taking good care of yourself. The quote rings so true. I struggled with this, too.

Wow... .I am break all 5 in some way.     Feeling sad... .

Hey Mike76, didn't mean to make you sad. I feel for you. It's shocking to see black on white how what we have learned is the right way to behave is not so healthy and "right" after all. It's a rude awakening, for sure. But also one that we need to find a better way, a healthier way to be in our lives.

Trust me, you did not make me feel sad, it is more about my situation.   My biggest problem is the following... .If I do anything different I normally do,  set boundaries or stick to my boundaries.  My my wife goes crazy, she calls it surprises, these surprises for her are one of my biggest hurdles. 

I can understand that. I'm sure her reactions to your boundaries are pretty unpleasant to be around. Can you see that she is reacting strongly because when you try to stick to your boundary you're different than before, and less under her control?

I mean that in the nicest way, "under her control". It's just that for her it's scary, or just plain annoying maybe, so she reacts strongly to get you to quit it. But it really doesn't to you any good, either of you. She is probably not able to see that. You are.

Which boundaries have you tried to set and stick to?

"I'd like to be treated with respect--SURPRISE!"

(no offense meant... .but I identify!)

This quote made my day. Thanks Dreamflyer :D

LOL! i'm glad.  We have to keep our sense of humor, right?

Boundaries #3 and #4 are where I tend to get stuck. Not surprisingly, both have elements of putting someone else's needs before my own. There's that caretaker" personality rearing its head again... .

Eyvindr, I think that is or has been a big problem for many of us. Have you been able to change some of this around to better boundaries?

great article... .I'll be coming back to re read it later this evening... .I should be working. 

I've learned in the time since I last commented on this that I have "overshared" with my adult children. My T says that's not uncommon when you're in a r/s with someone who doesn't hear you and who you can't discuss these sorts of things with... . still my adult children are the wrong choice, since it sets them up to want to "fix" or choose sides, and that's not helpful at all.

At the time I was trying to ascertain whether what my H was doing was as off as I was starting to feel it was, but then when I have had to take a big time out from the marriage (i'm staying with one of our daughters and have been for nearly 3 months after my uBPDh escalated his behavior to a point I didn't feel safe) I saw where my previous sharing caused some confusing dynamics for my kids.

AND WE KEEP LEARNING! Yay for education, therapy, and growth!  At sixty! :)

Thank you DreamFlyer99 for pointing me to this page. I've learned a lot from what Steve Safigan said about Boundary Issues.

First, thank you for not giving up on me, and for helping me find my way back.

26 years of violation of my heart and soul, not to mention the horrific memories of those initial many years of physical abuse, finally came to a head in my heart on the 31st of March 2014. I almost gave up on life and living... . DreamFlyer99 held on to me and Waverider gave me words of wisdom; they have shown me that i can go on.

But building boundaries is the absolute first. And it isn't easy. Safigan says, 'The root cause of boundary issues is fear.' That dreadful day finally, once and for all, fear just left me - i felt totally destroyed and got very, very sad and upset that i had been reduced to this ultimate point. The whole day went by in tears and suffering, and finally i was sure about one thing - if i had to die, this was not the way i was going to die. And suddenly fear left me. I was a hundred percent sure in my mind and totally determined that this person, my H, was not going to be the cause of my death... . enough hurt had already happened inside.

But, the next step, believe me is not easy at all. Having suddenly become free of fear opened the road to re-establishing myself. And that meant creating a boundary which i would NOT let him cross. That i was very clear about. I can see that he is wondering what happened, and is trying to bait me but i am just not letting go. I just walk away or tell him i do not want to talk and force-force-force my mouth to stay shut to prevent the words from spilling out.

Again, i'm so grateful Safigan has clarified this: 'Anger, anxiety, fear and other uncomfortable emotions are hard-wired into human beings to help us recognize when our boundaries are being violated. Ignoring your own uncomfortable emotions sends a signal -- to yourself and to others -- that you don't respect yourself. It may work as a short-term strategy for avoiding conflict. But ultimately, it will lead to bigger problems.' Bigger problems, of  totally losing all sense of self-esteem, self-respect, and worse, the confidence to do things on our own... . or even to think a simple thought on our own... . that is the worst.

The thing is that this approval, status, future opportunities, and even friendships that we are so afraid of losing - i've realized that if i'm so afraid of losing these, better not to have them at all. Because, really, how many people really CARE? Care enough to a) not give up on you and b) force you to get back on the road. One person who knows what you are going through, empathises with you and holds your hand as you go through the tortuous process of looking inside of yourself and creating a new you is enough. Real friends boost your confidence in yourself.

It is the fear issue - besides the fears from the outside, there is also the fear of facing yourself on the inside, because you have to honestly do that, and chances are that you may find something that is not so wonderful and which needs removing/changing/reforming/reworking... .

It's not easy - i am struggling with this - but believe me, i can actually breathe freely now and best is i am not afraid... .

Lilibeth, you said this:


and I want to happy dance! This is a HUGE step forward! So well done.  :)

This way lies freedom of spirit.

Your fellow traveler,

dreamflyer99

Oh DreamFlyer99, those words mean a great deal to me... . balm for my heart and strengthening my resolve... .

Thank you so much. It's so good to have a fellow traveller like you - this journey is long and hard and painful to go it alone.

This is a key issue for many of us living with a loved one who suffers with BPD.

And here is the boundary you are working to strengthen, right Lilibeth?


this is the area where i'm working to strengthen my boundaries as well. Only where you are working to keep yourself from striking back with your words, I have always been more of a "hider," the one who has internalized them to the detriment of my own health, both mental and physical.

So to answer the question of "how i'm changing an unhealthy boundary to a healthy one" rather than taking what I think is a short term answer and swallowing my own needs and feelings, I am striving to become a more Truthful person. I can still say the Truth in kindness and love, for instance when my uBPDh is belittling me, "I'm going for a walk right now, and if we can discuss this respectfully i'm more than happy to revisit your concerns." Calmly. I need to say it calmly. If I expect him to be respectful, I need to show I can be respectful as well.

I should have won an academy award.

No one knew. I always covered for him, cleaned up all his messes, and made excuses.

I was boundary-less


Walk on egg shells when he was having a tantrum or watching his favorite sports team, God forbid they lose.

Ask questions the right way, shut up and not cause waves, etc.

Over 25 years, he squashed the "me" out of me... .

AND *I* was foolish enough to listen to bad advice and allow it.


SO VERY TRUE!

I told exh "your dad is the way he is because he has been allowed to act the way he acts for so many years. God help the person that puts him in his place... .he will lose his mind".

I see the mistakes I made in my past... .and that line in the sand will now be accompanied with a MOTE full of ALLIGATORS ! If someone tries to cross my boundary line?

I will turn the page immediately.


I did. I knew if I left him in 96, he'd pick some trash queen to hook up with and I did NOT want my kids subjected to that.

So I ate it. And I'd do it all over again, because my 3 are truly amazing people today (all young adults).

BUT I will NEVER EVER EVER do this again... .this is the 'chip by chip, bit by bit whittling away of one's soul and self, to be completely under another's abusive control. Never again.


Yes, I put my life on a shelf to raise my kids, and I do NOT regret that one second.

YES fear IS a driving factor. I never wanted to be like my parents (especially my mom) so I had a lot of fear... .

NOW that the kids are raised, and they are all on the right track (train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it) AND now that I am on my own I WILL NEVER EVER tolerate this kind of abuse again.

My boundaries will be firm, direct, and verbalized.


I was manipulated with gaslighting, his behavior (pouting, whining, temper tantrums, silent treatment, eye rolling, disgusting face scrunching ETC... .)... .it was my lack of boundaries that allowed him to manipulate me for so long.

Moving forward, this will not happen again.

I have learned so much. God has protected me, SO much!

I am all about number 5. I put everybody's needs ahead of my own. Ms. Enabler. This coming year is all about what I can do for myself. I just wrote in my journal and spelled out these goals for the coming year. Basically after raising 3 kids, 22 years of marriage and then 8 with my exBPD it is my turn to be cared for.

I set boundaries with my exBPD and boy did they backfire. I told him every time I he yelled or went into a rage I would leave. I did. He was shocked. About the 4th time I took off I got the break up email a day and a half later. I stirred up his abandonment issues when I left each time but I had to get out of there. No one respects you when they are screaming at you. Nothing gets accomplished. He told me to "man up and handle it." Well, that was his way of denying his illness.

I need to work more on boundaries.

Oh yes, I walked on eggshells too. If football was on it was his time. Sprawled out on the sectional couch, tv loud, yelling and I agree if his team lost, look out! Temper tantrums, moody, swearing, pouting, anger. All over a stupid game! You would think he was on the team playing and guess what I think he is so delusional that he thinks he is right there! It has made me hate football!

I too hid his abuse from my friends and family. They sensed it though because the recognized that he was so intense. They were afraid for me and asked many times if he was physical. No, but his words hurt more than any blow. He could destroy my self esteem quickly.

This is very interesting... .one thing that I have noticed is that when I am not clear about my boundaries and then they are (knowingly or unknowingly) violated over a period of time, I reach a point when I do try and say "hey, this is a boundary!" It ends up "HEY THIS IS A BOUNDARY!" lol. Finding that I do that particularly often with my uBPDsister. I'm working with a therapist to try to utilize the anxiety, anger and fear that comes with loving a BPD to establish healthy boundaries.

I think I am a little guilty of 1-4,  but how do you set a boundary for cheating other than ending the relationship?

I think that's the make it or break it moment, seeing how the other person responds to our boundaries. It increased the acting out of my uBPDh too, and made my decision to leave very clear to me!

I wrote the above description of my relationship with my SO's older daughter and later was reading about boundaries.


Wow... .just wow... .weird stuff happens around here sometimes.  So it sounds like I'm gonna have to have strong boundaries around this daughter.  This will be challenging for me.  I have good boundaries in general but they do get softer the closer the relationship is to me.  I will admit that I fear conflict with this daughter will cause problems with her dad and me (my own insecurity... .not necessarily reality)

I appreciate all the information on this site  :)

Mine too.  I wonder, now that I've been reading through this website for the past many months and see how pwBPD flee r/ss, would he have eventually left me bc he couldn't handle me standing up to him?  He would have either left me or beat me/killed me, one way or another, it was going to end bad.  When it became crystal clear that he was never going to allow me to have boundaries or live by my own values I knew it was time to leave.

WOW.  

The long-term effects of porous boundaries can be severe. You feel increasingly stressed, as you continually choose other people over yourself. You feel guilty for disrespecting yourself and letting other people impose on you. You become increasingly angry, irritable and resentful and find yourself unmotivated to participate in life, even falling into a deep depression. You may become so exhausted and consumed by others' lives that you feel as if you have no life of your own.

BINGO!

I need to print that entire post and put it on my bathroom mirror.  Actually I should have a copy in every room!  And the car... .my purse... .:light:

Perhaps in a lovely calligraphy... .  lol

 Love it DreamFlyer!  lol

I have difficulties with #3 as to how to let my difficult emotions 'just be', to get a break, so to speak. Like with my anger, I tend to 'manage' my emotion, diffuse, etc. But sometimes it doesn't work good enough for me. I tend to not allow myself to feel my anger or my sadness fully. Another aspect is overtime, I do some expression of it, but there is not a real 2 ways exchange in the relationship. Overtime, I need time off, just for me. That's where I see the effect of the suppression.

It's uncounscious almost. It happens very fast.  Some fear that if I did, I would lose my partner to her fear of abandonment (trigger her).

Also the odd inverse thing happens. She is, at times, wonderfully supportive. In those times, it's almost as if I could not allow myself to just relax in her gift, not fully. At the beginning I did unabashedly, and it was awesome. Overtime, I kind of shut down a bit, gradually, like I cannot beleive it fully, since I expect later she will do something which hurts. I tend to instinctively want to 'manage myself' there too.

Anybody else has that?

I totally understand #3 and what you're saying, BraveSun. I've had to learn to feel my feelings and let my grief or anger or whatever just happen. Couldn't do that so much when I was at home with my uBPDh, he was very uncomfortable with my feelings and would usually try to medicate me when I had strong bad feelings! lol It's hard to always be taking care of the other person's feelings and never your own, and it's so unhealthy for us--i'm sure that's why I developed Fibromyalgia.

Wow Dreamflyer!...  

How did you come into discovering the link between your fibromyalgia and your everyday 'emotional restrictions'? Did you have increasing symptoms as you went through your days? Did you just discover you were sick all of a sudden?

I am also on a watch for my little physical symptoms. Like I had hormonal spikes, dizzy spells, insomnia and some high anxiety states. I also have had an unusually slow recovery from a recent flu. I'm usually very good with that, 3 days and I'm back on the saddle. This last time, it took more than 3 weeks for the little symptoms to stop.

Did you find it's difficult to keep up taking yourself into consideration, while in the swings of everyday demands of the insecurities of your partner? Like taking a few breaths here and there, bringing the energy of the moment to '0', remembering to take my vitamins, or to keep enough money in my bank account (no matter the budget), for things only myself need, instead of the household/others. This maybe sounds a bit wild, but I have never done so much of that type of 'forgetting' before, and I live separately.

In some moments, I find that I tend to almost forget that I 'am', like I forget my own sense of 'being', so strong the pull to be 'there for her', or to not 'betray her fears of abandonment' can get. 

It's not good for sure, and it's a daily bootstrapping for me right now, to not react too much and just 'wait & see'. Like as if it would be to let her down if I did just leave her alone with the difficulty of the moment. She's struggling, I know that. And I am too. She needs to practice her coping skills just like I do.

It's a good lesson in learning to stay 'behind me', in the misdt of challenging emotional bouts. Two bodies can fall in the water, and there will be a better chance to return to shore if both can swim.

I strive very hard right now, to position myself as an adult in face of another adult. 

My fibromyalgia hit after a big emotional mess involving my husband and our church's pastor. I was so enmeshed in my husband's emotions and my need to keep him afloat that the situation took a huge toll on me too, and within the week the symptoms started with the extreme and early muscle fatigue, bad sleep, and pain. And the symptoms just kept getting worse--the first week I had 2 nights bad sleep, but within a month it was every night, things like that. My T and I actually figured it out! My body was set up for it having spent my entire life to that point trying to take care of someone else's feelings but not my own. I didn't feel I knew myself anymore.

A big struggle for many of us with unhealthy boundaries is to learn what we as an individual are responsible for and what the other person is responsible for. Where our garden leaves off and the next person's begins. And we need to learn all we can and practice those boundaries where we let the other person feel their pain and we support them but don't take it on. That was huge for me! Learning that other people get to have their feelings, even if they make me super uncomfortable. Not trying to talk them out of those bad feelings, but be there for them without "fixing" the feelings. That's what will validate the other person and allow us to have our own sense of self.

It's a big change for us when we've "needed to fix" someone else's feelings, cuz that's what we're trying to do--not so much for them as for ourselves. Like anything else it takes practice practice practice! But we can do it. :)

Wow!... I see what you mean. It's awesome that your T worked with you on this. Things can take you by surprise and affect you so much so quickly if you are not on the ball...


Yup!  |iiii

I have an example here. My SO is struggling with her sex addiction. The issues she's having are to say the least, difficult for me to stomach. She's working at recovery, and than she's periodically slipping into difficult emotional states. I have learned to appreciate over time that when she feels 'challenged', she will reach out to me and seek my support. Something better than her simply betraying me, because of the confidence she offered me.

Only that it's not always practical, and naturally, overtime I gradually feel trapped in by that expectation of myself of 'being there for her when she needs it'. Like more and more often, if she slipped and acted out, right after the fact, she'll want to reach out. In a 'normal relationship', I would not require of myself to have any patience with this kind of behavior. Fidelity is an important value for me. I work hard on my anger issues. I have set some very clear boundaries with this several months ago. I had the requirement for her to let me have my space, right after she slipped, and to go to her support people instead of me.

Samewise, gradually, I developed a growing expectation that she recognizes the hurt it causes me when she slips (read *sees me*), and takes up a more and more hands-on, planned, pro-active role in the face of her compulsivity. As I see this reflected in many BPD stories across the boards at bpdfamily, it does not usually work out as we, nons would need or expect. There has to be some flexibility on my part to meet the reality. I get easily caught there. I'm new to this. I'm learning through trial & errors. There are road blocks and detours, and frankly, some times it gets overwhelming. I see the symptoms of my boundary erosion by noticing little details like when I 'forget to under~stand myself'. Those issues are though to deal with. 


I totally understand what it means to not try to 'fix the feelings'. At the beginning, I did a lot of 'soothing' and felt very responsive to her emotional needs. Wow! She liked that!... I would block completely my own feelings of anger, diffuse, and go right in there and explain what I understood could be happening for her, what I believed our shared values were, what she could do, typical problem-solving, etc. I tried to do some mini breathing meditations, mental word games, counting backwards in the middle of the night, you name it. As time went on, I took a beating from my own rising anger, and from the boomeranging effects of her 'omitting my own experience', when regardless on how it affected me, she still made bad choices (hurting me and herself too).  In her typical BPD experience, she doesn't 'remember me' when she feels the strong urges. Apologizing after the facts does not make a difference anymore.

I learned that those feelings she has, even though they're not about me, even though they are triggering my insecurities a lot, they are not going away because she or I want them gone. She has to do her own shame work, her own self-soothing practice, her own homework. This is a sharp example of where being with a pwBPD, and having no control over her recovery, can grate on your boundaries (and on your sanity) if you are not keeping up at reaching out for your own support.

Sometimes I'm catching myself thinking that I would take a yelling-angry-words-at-me companion 10x over this stuff... But I better watch my mouth!...   lol

Yes, braveSun, I can relate to what you are feeling/expressing.  I recognize that I have an unconscious hesitancy to wallow in the support fearing that it will be pulled out like a rug under my feet.  I thought I had worked a lot on boundaries and my fear of abandonment which feeds my self-worth as far as relationships are concerned.  I realize that I need to continually be aware of and learn more about my boundaries, and how to set and hold to healthy ones.

AGP

Oh, braveSun, that's a huge difference in values between the two of you--just wow. It sounds like you're figuring out how to balance each of your needs, but DANG.

What did you see? About monogamy and non-monogamy?

Yes. That's a large difference.

Dreamflyer thank you!

Yes, I have been thinking about that for a while. Now the way I understand this (and it might not appear like this in my posts above), is that my SO does share my values of wanting a healthy, faithful, monogamous relationship.

But when she dysregulates, she feels that I will leave her, and acts out by having affairs. In those moments, her thinking changes, and she rationalizes it by saying that she always has done things like that. 'She hurts people' (her words). But she doesn't want that. She's walking away from her old ways. She wants a relationship like she sees I am capable of having. She is attracted to me because of that. When she has affairs, it's becoming more like she either feels like she needs another partner like myself, i.e. with similar qualities (a replacement of me), or she gives it all up momentarily and has sex, thinking she's never going to achieve her goals. Or she will pick a partner who does give her the emotional nurturing she seeks, than realises that she will have to work on her issues just the same with that new affair and stops it on her own.  The NC we're in right now was laid out as an opportunity for her to see if she can manage alone for a bit, because I told her that I will need periodic time outs if I have a future with her. While we're not talking everyday, she can explore what happens in her emotions.

I in turn have to live my emotions, and keep up with my insecurities, because of the extinction burst effect. It looks like gradually, as she is working on her issues, she could get better at managing her 'cues', at least seeing them in action. I have to attend to my fears that it might never materialise, not knowing really if she will succeed, and stick to my guns anyway for that period of time. The doubts can certainly creep up on me, but I have to stick it out. I can learn also about my own 'cues', how I can depersonalize the hurtful behavior, but also be consistent that it has to go. 

The underlying issue is the insecure attachment style. I understand now I'm the more secure one.

What you are looking at is her BPD in action and how steep my BPD learning curve is. Values are shared.

BraveSun,

That's a very generous approach for you to take! Is she actually making headway? Can you look at a time in the past and see where she has moved closer to the goal, having less episodes than now? I hope so, you sound quite kind yet firm in your boundaries. In the world of my fuzzy boundaries (which are becoming more clear) I let my uBPDh's words be my guide rather than his actions. It took some time before I learned to compare the two and see his actions fell far short of his words. I truly hope that's not the case for you. That's great you can allow her to feel her own feelings and deal with her own insecurities. In my case I finally had to let go the idea that because my h said he wanted something or shared my value about something, that something wasn't going to necessarily appear.

    DreamFlyer, thank you so much for your encouragements... I think that most people who truely want to heal and grow can do just that. At least be in motion about it, and reach a certain amount of self-awareness. Gradually.

That goes for both the non and the pwBPD. Like you shared of your experience, I've had to learn on the fly about her words not matching her actions. I've had to accept that of myself, that I have been making mistakes of judgement, and will be making more along the way. I am learning BPD from trial and errors. I'm new to this.


Do you feel at times that your H has been in motion about his recovery, or status quo?


For my SO, there is a definite quality of trying out different responses sometimes, inquiry into self and behaviors (not just hers, but also mine and others who affect her). Like someone who learns very very very slow.

The time she spent in residential treatment seems to have affected her growth much more significantly. Maybe. I'm always chosing the better view, even though I know that there are the bad times too. But there is evidence of insights. That's both encouraging, ... and also scary. Hmmm... Because I agree with you, there is no guaranties. Not even after having spent all that effort and time and money in therapy, there is no guaranties that they won't slip again.

The way I see it is that my SO does share my values, but sees herself as failing to deliver the consistent output with her efforts. She has been going on for maybe 3 weeks without sexually acting out, than she had a slip. Now there are those 3 weeks, and way back it was slips several times/week. It has been up and down all the way. Nothing linear. But there is now a small group of people around her who are rooting for her in her path. That makes a subtle difference in her confidence. Even if she rebels sometimes. I can confirm that she is in motion, and has a 'main direction'.

Example: Recently I watched the movie 'Thanks for sharing' and she knew about it. After the movie, I cried. I felt that I had hurt her with my angry words when she had betrayed me in the past. She was very keen on my emotions/experience right there. There was good intimacy there. I had an emotional apology to her. She responded quickly that 'On no! It was she, who had hurt me to begin with, with her hurtful behavior. Don't even to there!' She said...

Those moments are important for the future. I want those to accumulate.


About fuzzy boundaries... It's way more difficult to know what our natural limits are when we have lived an extended period of time with someone who tends to crash people's boundaries. I would say for me, it's much easier to see my limits if I am physically separated from my SO. Even better if I am NC for a few days. In long term r/s, people tend to stabilize behaviors, even if they are not all for the best. There seem to be some sort of ecology of behaviors between partners, and to create changes, it takes a lot of momentum. I admire people who are breaking the status quo in their long term relationships. It demands a lot of courage.

On the other hand, I can see that if something is not going to appear, than it won't. People have to take care of their needs in the best ways possible.

It helps greatly for both partners to have a T and a support network, always.

And of course, MC if both want to make changes.

Sadly, my uBPDh hasn't made true changes in how he treats me--he's still in the one-up position with a feeling of control. And he still says really mean stuff to me. The good part for him is that he's been in counseling and has learned things about himself that will make his own future better I think. The MC therapist I talked to said that since he still won't accept responsibility for how he treats me he isn't ready for MC. So I need to protect myself now since he is moving toward trying to control me more with the money. (he gets the paycheck, I get disability which isn't enough to live on.)

i'm happy to hear your SO has a cheerleading squad now, and is making progress. I recently watched that movie too, and boy was that eye-opening.

It's all a journey, right? 

Wow DreamFlyer, yes!...  |iiii  

Did you start to look at your options regarding that? I think that your situation is a very real challenge many people experience in long term relationships.

Besides money considerations, are there other ways you could access maybe temporary 'head space', or 'me space'?

Well, i'm living with friends and that's good. i'm also working with a lawyer. So i'll get there.

|iiii