BPDFamily.com

Where to start... .

Step backwards - My xubfNPD showed up at my door after a good few months of LC last Sunday morning.  He was there to "get a few more of his things".  We wound up having sex and he stayed till the early evening.  At the time, I was thinking it was nice having him there just for the day.  Well, he showed up again Thurday night and Friday night.  I made the mistake of letting him in.  We had sex Thursday night, and then Friday night when he showed up, I just said "what are you doing?".  He told me I didn't have to answer the door in the future when he shows up... .basically, putting it all on me instead of him stopping showing up.

It was a local music festival weekend, where all of our mutual friends were, so I did see him Saturday night, and a little Sunday.  No real interaction, just basic friendliness.  The one thing that kept him at bay was that the guy I've mentioned before was there with me on Saturday night.

One step forward - the guy who was there with me Saturday night is the one that I've been "battling" with my feelings about.  I really like him in all ways, but there is no physical chemistry on my part towards him.  I have decided that this is just how it is, and I am not going to pursue hanging out with him in the manner I have been.  Chemistry is important to me.  I can't discount it.  I was with some other guy who I've had a crush on since I met my xubfNPD on Thursday evening... .no sex, but there was some good kissing, etc.  Definitely chemistry there.  So, it made me realize that I just don't have that with the nice guy.  The man I was with Thursday is not someone I want a relationship, but it was just nice to "play".  Also, Saturday evening, there were so many great men there to hang with, that I felt bad kind of blowing off the "nice guy" who was there with me.  I say this is a step forward because I now know what chemistry really is and am absolutely sure I do not want to be with him in that way.

The problem is my ex.  I know he is going to show up on my doorstep again.  I know he is just using me (and I him), but I also know that I should not be doing this.  I am so weak when it comes to him, still.  It has nothing to do with me having poor self esteem.  It's all about the fact that I still have feelings for him, and do enjoy hanging out with him.  It's different because he leaves.  There is no drama.  It's my house and he no longer lives there, and I know I will not let him move in or pursue any type of relationship with him more than we have now. 

Bottom line, I am confused about my feelings for my ex, but I am also very clear on what I want from a man in the future.  Your thoughts?

Whoa, I'd have to say having sex multiple times with exNPD is a little more than one step backward. It sounds like FWB at some level.

Just wait and see how your ex reacts when he sees you in the company of another man during one of his pop-ins. That should cure you of any and all lingering feelings toward him.

On paper it does seem a little concerning that you have no chemistry with Mr. Nice Guy, some chemistry with Mr. New Guy, and sex with Mr. Bad Guy, but maybe there's more to it.

What is FWB?  Yes, I almost put 2 steps backwards in my thread title.  I agree.

My girlfriend asked me "what will it take for you not to answer the door the next time?".  Good freakin' question.

Hi Want2know,

I can understand your feelings being confused.

If you don't mind me saying, I think I would be too.

I am not sure the ex is the problem as long as you want him to be the ex, isn't it going to be mighty difficult to form a relationship and find what you want from a man while he isn't an ex?

What are your feelings for him?


Sandyb

FWB = Friends With Benefits.

Want2know

I certainly understand the neurotransmitter rush you get by having sex with your x. Just having my BPDw be civil to me changes my whole demeanor, I think you're setting yourself up for trouble, creating a distorted view of these new guys and in general, overloading yourself emotionally.

Step back a bit and slow down. Allow yourself to think and feel. I don't believe you can run away from the pain by flipping all over the place. It'll catch up to you.

R

First let me say that the fact my post was moved to the "undecided" board really made me think, and then after re-reading what I wrote, what the heck am I thinking?

To answer your question about what are my feelings for him... .that's a complex one. 

Overall, when I'm alone, I range from feeling sorry for him, to being glad he's not my responsibility anymore, to thinking about having sex with him, to thinking he's just so messed up and will never have an even semi-normal life.  When he is present, it depends on how he's treating me.  If he's being his nasty self, I hate him and want nothing to with him.  If he's playing the pity party, I just shut down and remember that he's "a loser" and has done this to himself.  If he's engaging, charming, and interactive, I want to be with him, but also have the lingering thought of this will not last long and he will go elsewhere soon enough.

I do still care about him.  I'm not sure if that will ever change.  It's the extent of my interaction with him that is somewhat bothersome.  He showed up again at my house this Monday after work.  Yes, we had sex again, and then he left and came back with his son (who used to live with us at my house) and the dog (who also used to live at my house).  That was a trip, for sure.  I know he has some ulterior motive behind what he's doing, and know he is just using me, but I am using him, too. 

I have a feeling this is just a phase, and so I'm not overly concerned, but hate the fact that I've been thrown back into the undecided category.  I am not undecided about me getting back together with him as a partner, and will never let him move back into my house.  That, I know.  So, really it's my level of engagement that I'm undecided about.  I never pursue him... .it's always him pursuing me.  I never seek him out... .I avoid going to where he will be as much as possible.  I never go to where he lives, even though it happens to be at a good friends house where all my friends go to for after hours parties.  I just go home even though I'd prefer to stay out with them.

W2K,

I am sure somehow this all makes sense to you. You have three outlets for male companionship that you've mentioned in this thread, yet the one you seem to choose to give your body to is your NPD ex.

Your logic is at that point where I just lose the ability to "get it." Not that you have to justify anything to me, but what about yourself? What would you tell your dearest friend if she told you what you've told us about allowing her ex to pop in and have sex with her?

I assume it'd be a lot than "That's OK. It's just a phase. You'll move on from it."

--J

I understand it all in my head that I shouldn't be doing what I'm doing, yet I continue to do it.  I was doing counseling for a while, and then stopped because I thought I was in a good place.  Coincidentally, that's when my ex started showing up often.  I'm thinking about going back to work this piece out, but here's the deal... .I am going to continue to run into him because we have a large group of mutual friends.  There is a weekend camping festival this weekend that we are both going to be at.  It's easy to say "don't go", but I wouldn't be doing a lot of things that I want to do if I had that mentality.  Really, in some ways, I don't see myself getting out of this "easily".  Not that I expect anything to be easy when it comes to my ex, but I just want to scream "it's not fair!".  I'm almost back to thinking my easiest solution is to move, even though I love where I live.  I don't see myself changing enough to be indifferent to him - ever.

These are just ramblings right now because I am confused.  I'm not even sure if they make sense, but it's how I'm feeling and what I'm thinking.  And when I said the "undecided" board earlier, I meant disengaging.  Freudian slip?

There's a very interesting psychological dynamic that exists when one continues to stay stuck in a situation he or she knows they have to get out of. Take for instance the physically abused person who stays so as not to upset their abuser or their family... .

Is it matter of learned behavior from childhood, or not feeling as though one has any value/worth, or doing the same thing over and over again hoping the other person finally "gets it," or masochism, or something else?

I don't know, but it is one of the most heartbreaking things that happens to people... .chasing the carrot that always stays out of reach.

That is just it... .I'm feeling stuck right now.  I wasn't feeling that way for a while, and then he inserted himself back into my life, even though it's not like it was when we were living together.

If I were giving myself advice as I was a friend, I would say "suck it up and tell him to leave you alone".  Easier said than done, but it's either that, and stick to my guns (ie. don't answer the door, like he suggested), or I do something radical to promote change - which is almost cowardice, in my view.

"suck it up and tell him to leave you alone".  Easier said than done,

That's why you told yourself to SUCK IT UP, because it IS easier said than done.

or I do something radical to promote change - which is almost cowardice, in my view

So sleeping with your ex is some sort of act of bravery?

You're right -- it's not fair --- a NPD has a list of self-serving double standards as long as your arm.  IMO there are conflicting feelings about disengaging because you're not disengaging.  I don't know how you can, as you say, ever expect to be indifferent to him  -- if you don't disengage?  It's like you're continuing the cycle.  "Moving" is really healing, allowing your head and heart to progress to a place where you no longer feel compelled to engage with him.  And really being honest with yourself if you're rationalizing a way to stay in contact.  (Does that ring true for this weekend?  I'm not trying to badger you with these questions.  I just honestly think they are important parts to consider.)  

It means feeling the loss, feeling what had to be stuffed down to keep the peace.  It's a dark walk, and it's giving up romance for a while, but I promise, it's SO WORTH IT.

Are you looking to replace him so that you can move on?  Does it feel like an addiction at all?  I know in my r/s I was afraid to let go.  And I was afraid of the fear, and ashamed that I would be afraid to let go.  And part of that is giving up sex with your X, the physical closeness with him -- the set of needs for (false) security that keeps us locked in.  It's not easy, and IMO, doing something radical to promote change would be the act of knowing you deserve better than just the Dr. Jekyll half of a guy when he happens to reveal that half to you.

And it won't help you at all to disconnect if you're giving mixed messages to the guy.

 

You are correct.  I have a bit of a problem with the fact that even without him stopping by my house, I continue to run into him because of mutual friends, and it's a small town with limited places to hang out.


I have been feeling this for a while, and was trying to work through it.  I was being very careful about remaining single and not pursuing men for a while, and then I was caught off guard and became "weak" with the one thing I really enjoyed with him - sex.


 

Yes, absolutely!


I agree that by having sex with him it is sending mixed messages.  It's saying - sure, stop by any time if you want to screw around.  That's why I need to get to a place where I can say "please do not stop by again".  I'm not quite feeling I'm there yet, and am not sure what it will take for me to ever feel I can be at that point.  I'm just wishing he wouldn't come over.  He hasn't stopped by since Monday night, which is good, but then I am going to see him this weekend, however, I will be surrounded by friends and not alone with him at my house.  I'm actually pretty good about avoiding him when we happen to be out at the same "event", so I'm not really that worried about this weekend as I am the next time he pops by.

  Want2know - I don't think you're being totally honest with yourself (and consequently us) and doing that, however hard it may be, may help.  Just as one example, you've said that you're doing your best not to run into him and yet you frequently go to places you know he'll be.  I think it would be in your best interest to admit that maybe this (him) is something that's really tough for you to resist at the moment and to take yourself out of the equation.

He didn't simply insert himself back into your life - you play just as much a role in that for getting together with him.  I think you need some time/space away from him to see things more clearly.  If that means a few weekends where you don't go to musical festivals, so be it.  It'll be better for you in the longrun.  :)o something completely different, stay home and read a book- just don't interact with him.

If being with him (or similar guys) is what you want, that's your choice.  But if you really want to move towards healthier relationships with non PD folks, I think you'll need to take a good hard look at your actions and see where you're rationalizing/excusing doing things you know is not good for you / moving your closer to your goal(s).

Take care!

* This is a really good one... .

How to Break Your Addiction to a Person (http://www.amazon.com/How-Break-Your-Addiction-Person/dp/0553382497/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285270570&sr=8-1)

how do you want this straight or delicate?

I respect you for admitting that it feels addictive.  See, that seems to be the disconnect in the logic  -- if you continue to feed the addiction (regardless who makes the first move to show up), I don't understand how it will be self-limiting, to get you to a place where you can say no.  

IMO, it boils down to behavior modification.  Put your behavior first, enforce the break with your resistance -- cold turkey -- and let your emotions heal.  The more difficult that seems, the more important it is to do it.

(TonyC -- your post came in as I was writing this.  Did I just do the delicate one?    :)  )

Did I do the straight one? 

:)

straight...

look hes a guy... he will come over and ya know... anytime you will answer the door... i would... .but you want more than this... .i know you do...

hes got nothing to offer but headache and heart ache... he leaves,, and hes not thinking of changeing himself... and the message you send. is everything is cool... .

but its not... and it wont be... .

and i know you werent attracted to new guy that much... and your not in love... and niether is he... but he showed you things you havent seen in some time... like normal conversation, a freind... a person to confide in...

and maybe how to have a good time without waiting for a shoe to drop,

That's why I need to get to a place where I can say "please do not stop by again". 

forget the please... .you should say i deserve more than this... and you cant supply anything outside of the bedroom... and you want and deserve the whole package... .

I always want it straight from everyone... .especially you, Tony.

Ok, let's see if I can try to be as honest as possible and move from there... .

- I do enjoy having sex with him, and nothing more than that

- I do not want to be in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship with him

- I'm not ready to be in a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship with anyone right now

- I go to these festivals and other places he might happen to be, not because he may be there

- I do not pursue him

- I don't mind him stopping by my house, on occasion

- I do not want to be around him when he's in psycho mode... .be it at my home or anywhere else

- I do try and avoid contact with him when we happen to be in the same place (outside of my home)

- I range from feeling sorry for him to thinking he deserves his pathetic existence

- I want to feel indifference towards him

- I do not want to move

replace you i do's with

i dont need except for the last one...

you cant till you shut this down... cause you dont need a here today gone tommarow...

NO guy is that great in the sack to rule out what you've written here.  

And you deserve someone who treats you with respect and who brings a healthy joy to your life.  Why lower yourself to anything else?  Why would you want to be so close to a pathetic existence, to let him in -- literally?

Another thought -- Are you getting a charge out of the danger, flirting with the possibility of psycho mode?  Is it a kind of payback -- are you proving to yourself that you can control him?  When I had sex with STBXH, he would be sort of "domesticated" at least right before and during. 

But sometimes it would freak me out because he would get in my face when he was raging -- so kissing him and having close eye-contact felt scary.

We can agree to disagree here.  :)

Oh wait, that could be interpreted the wrong way... .nevermind... .  ;p

I know I deserve better and have not found anyone that I want to have sex with yet that treats me with respect and brings me joy.  I am not pursuing those that are similar to my ex for that.  It's really just kind of a convenience factor for sex.  Something familiar.  Something that shows up at my door.  If I had someone else for that, I would not let him in.  It's kind of selfish, on my part.  That's why I said I feel I'm using him, too.  I enjoy sex and miss it, so I allow myself to be with him for that.

I'm a little hesitant to pipe up here because I haven't been on these boards as long as anyone else who has been commenting on this thread, and they have much more wisdom and experience. But, I do want to tell you that I completely know where you are in this, want2know.

I was in that same place for the last six months of my relationship w/my ex N/BPD. About half way through those six months, I found bpdfamily.com; what a therapeutic relief to know I wasn't alone. A few months later, I walked away from the relationship. Although I haven't seen or spoken to him on the phone for almost three months --  we've exchanged a handful of frustrating emails -- I know if he knocked on my door today, I would be in bed with him in a nanosecond. It's that kind of chemistry. I completely know what you're describing.

If I was completely honest with myself, I think that if he hadn't left our mutual workplace, and then a month later left the state altogether, I might still be in the same place I was: disengaging but still intimately involved. However, I was fortunate in that physically, he is not around and the chance of running into him is not there. And now, after all this time of not seeing him or hearing his voice, I now realize that I was in that place because of the chemistry. It was (is!) a true addiction: the brain reacts to those incredible feelings, both the physical and emotional ones, in the same way as it does for addicts of drugs or alcohol. My brain was literally addicted to our chemistry.

I now think of that place that I was for those last 6 months of the relationship as purgatory. I sacrificed self esteem,  subjected myself to his miserable moods and anger, did gymnastics to navigate the inconsistencies between his words and his actions, and kept myself in limbo with his unreliable and inconsistent approach to life... .all to satisfy what had become an addiction.

I went cold turkey when I walked away. Nearly three months out, I've been through all the stages of detox: the physical longing for him, the emotional angst, the anger... .I'm finally in a place where I'm focussing on me and focussing on creating healthy relationships with everyone in my life. While I hope that he never knocks on my door, I know that as every day passes, I'm a little bit stronger... .

2010 posted something a couple of months ago that I think is very appropriate to this topic... .If you haven't seen it before, you should read his comment on this thread if for no other reason that it should make you chuckle:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=124872.msg1230182;topicseen

As long as you keep letting him in the door, you're not able to really & honestly let anyone else into that addicted brain... .

When are you in town here again?

LOL !

I wanted to inject (!) a bit of humor into this thread but you kicked it up a notch (!)

:) *)

I'm reserved for the forseeble future :) , but in all seriousness to W2K, I believe you can have good chemistry/passion with someone who isn't a bad boy - but you have to give the other components a chance to factor in - if you think intimacy is simply physical, that's all it'll ever be.

Hmmm --- then can I ask why it's not the other way around?  That you haven't found anyone who treats you with respect and brings you joy -- that you'd want to have sex with?

IMO, that's the way to affirm to yourself that you deserve better.

This isn’t about chemistry. It’s about micro managing an addiction to another human being who belittles and abuses you. This sex offering you use is the only way to get this personality disordered individual to take the time and actually BE with you,( if only for a few moments.) In fact, it is probably the ONLY time when you feel he’s not going to leave- and you’re in control and that involves getting naked. Not allot of to see in life in that bed except each other.

This moment of intimacy you give in exchange to someone who you feel is *important* enough to understand that you are more than just a depository for sex.  Unfortunately, that really is a backward way for anyone (male or female) to get what they want.  Your thinking is that you want to be cherished for your entire being- and accepted as a valued human mate (if you have sex.) In the meantime, your actions are all about grasping opportunities to be heard by a personality disordered human being- and the only way you can do that is by getting them in bed and keeping them as a captive audience.

Using sex disallows every opportunity to be cherished as a thinking, rational, discriminating self- except for masturbatory value in the personality disordered eyes. Outside, life awaits. Concerts, dinner, movies, watching a sunset together, listening, sharing your day together, loving each other outside of sex- it all awaits.

You see, actions, really do speak louder than words. You haven’t gotten that message that what you are doing is self-defeating and not working- and you haven’t understood that yet. Your actions are self-sacrificial- but you feel that you are entitled to this because you have “chemistry.”  You place value on your lust-in exchange for a few moments of control- but it’s really a fool’s folly when it comes to what you actually want. What you really want is to be loved for who you are- cherished for who you are. But that’s reality and reality scares you. Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t.

In the meantime, you’ve searched for replacements to fill this “need” you have and each of them you reason, are without chemistry enough to bond sufficiently with sex. Might I suggest that chemistry is what you feel you are worth sexually in exchange for bonding emotionally?

That thinking, rational, discriminating self is not the personality who wants to walk down the path with a personality disordered mate towards old age.  Instead, it’s the small child who was told they were loved- and at the same time received contradictory messages (actions) in childhood. That’s chemistry 101 and that’s what keeps you coming back to fix this conundrum with a person who replicates your Family of Origin.

Instead of seeing this, you continue on in a repetition compulsion to try to re-work the unworkable, and return again and again to the same outcome, trying to change it and not accepting that these personality disordered people exist as teachers for you to learn something (change.)  Reality revolves around change. Fantasy does not.  In fantasy, we can remain forever young, like children- in the hopes that someone will come and take care of us- all the while we grow older and older without accomplishing our dreams- lamenting the loss of the people who could have done it for us.

If you resist change, and choose fantasy instead, and choose fantasy with people who have proven time and time again that their actions will betray you (hello, family of origin issues!) and you willingly go back into fantasy with the expectation of making them work as reality- you’re going to be hurt every time when you are FORCED back into reality.  Change is constant, whether we want it or not.

 

Life will not be greener pastures, where you’ll be loved for everything that you are and in turn you will find the Borderline or Narcissist worth loving.  They have their own problems- and are not concerned with you. They are using you to fulfill their own disordered thinking. (Let’s not let you say the same.)

If you continue the disallowance of this hope that your person- that thinking, rational, discriminating self that hasn’t been able to get the attention of the disordered people you’ve come in contact with by just BEING and existing as a truly wonderful human being, If you continue to micro-manage them so that they won’t leave you- then your “Hail Mary” pass is what you have to offer. Whether it’s rescuing them- or sex.  That is how you are defined by them on their receiving end. It’s only hiding your true feelings and desires.  You are letting them call all the shots.

If all that’s left for you is to capture the attention of this person so they won’t leave you- if only for a few moments of rapture (sex) or rescuing- they help you continue the fantasy- and you need to stop and get off the train. Reality waits and it’s grounded. In order to reconcile the two-to stay on the train and deal with day to day life- you’ll need to have the attention and love of this person away from the act of sex, or rescuing or self sacrifice- whatever your thinking is that makes you respond to them and them to you.  But away from the reward, they’ll only see punishment.

Not understanding this- leaves you in fantasy. What you do and who you are –are not the same person. If what you are doing doesn’t seem to result in any happiness or safety for you- it’s not who you are. It is your false self responding to a personality disordered person. You’ve done this before and you’re exhausted.  Learn to change.  Learn to let go. They aren’t worth it.

Be true to yourself. From now on- tell people what you want. If they do not like it- tough. If they do not prove true in their actions- leave them.  :)o not keep rewarding them for their bad behavior. Let go of the attempt to fix them and realize that if anyone needs fixing – it is YOU. If you are not confronted by your own behavior and take it under consideration- then there is no hope for the future. Becoming is the second law of the Universe. To fight against becoming is to challenge any hope for a better future. Take what you need to see and look. Don’t fight against it. You do have the power. Use it wisely. |iiii

Wow - thank you to all for your thoughts.  I really do appreciate everyones opinion.

Innerspirit - it is the other way around... .since I was primarily talking about the sex with my ex, I just started the sentence that way.  However, realistically, the first thing that happens with someone you meet is chemistry, and then the rest follows as you get to know them.  That is why I'm a little wary of my initial instincts with men now.  I don't trust the chemistry because it's gotten me in trouble.  The thing is, with the one "nice guy" I have now moved on from, I really didn't feel a strong chemistry with him initially, but I did have those other things.  I hung on for a bit to see where it would take me, but in the end, I had to admit it just wasn't there.  

I know there is someone out there with the whole kit and kaboodle, and I'm in no rush to find him.  In the meantime, I am dealing with my addiction to my ex, slowly trying to work it out.  I'm not perfect, that's for sure, but I do have long range goals that don't involve him, so I know I will get there one day.  Thank god for these boards!

Well - you've just solidly confirmed my understanding of the instant, unchanging, unalterable way that women evaluate men. If it's not fireworks from the start, it never will be.

Man that is uber-depressing... .

I've been the nice guy who is respectful and caring that women find unattractive. And you've been all the previous people I've been "involved" with who either are disinterested in sex or else see it as just some casual thing that does not a relationship make no matter what my feelings might be.

  |iiii  

Sorry Want - I still think you're a good person but your actions and posts have been confirming all that is uber-wrong with this hit_ed up world... .

Ah, do not lose hope.  There are at least two types of long term relationships:  1)  starts with a bang, chemisty, OMG  and 2)  very good friendship that one day you wake up and say WOW, I like this person in a way I wasn't thinking of

And the second option can be very special

That's not what I meant.  Chemistry is a lot more than seeing someone who is good looking.  It's someone you are drawn to more than the physical level, although that is a part of it.  They may not have classic good looks, but they are attractive to you.

The nice guy, I just didn't have that with.  He wasn't ugly by any means, but we just didn't connect on that level.  I have been with enough men who have had charisma and were just ok looking that I had strong chemistry with, and they weren't necessarily "bad boys". 

Don't kick yourself, DAS.  I know there have got to be women out there that have that with you, but you tend to put yourself down so much or are suspicious of it that you may not even realize it when it's happening.

Fair enough. I mean, I certainly don't feel like I can tell if a women is interested in me and certainly am almost positive that something will happen that causes her to lose interest even if that thing is my inaction. Sorta damned if I try and damned if I don't.

And ya - I do realize the difference between physical attraction and chemistry. I may have been B&Wing it a tad. 

Anyhow, sorry for jumping on ya -  x

You just can't give up trying, or be too hard on yourself when your attempts don't work.  It seems you have a streak of insecurity about yourself that you almost expect to fail - self fulfilling prophecy.  I get it.  You need to learn to squash that voice that tells you that you don't deserve something that you really want.  When it rears it's ugly head, tell it to f' off!


I don't feel you were jumping on me.  You were interpreting something I wrote with that nasty devil voice in your head controling your fingers as you were typing.  Glad you realized it was just that... .big hugs and kisses to you, DAS!

The toughest part about that, though, is that I feel like that was what I'd been doing for some time. I definitely told myself over and over and over again that I am a great guy and deserve to have great things in my life - and while I could acheive some of those things on my own (ie condo, travel), the second that it came to involving another person (ie friendships or romance) it never made one iota of difference in how others reacted to me.

So ya - it was easier to get through life while believing that stuff than it is right now. It just never once identifiably changed any external based outcomes.

Anyway - that's my issue and I'm thread derailing, so - done.  :)

The one thing that can't be accounted for when looking for a mate is... .ahem... .destiny/fate. We do eventually find that person we're meant to be with, only not usually when we want to. It sounds corny, but it's true.

There are times when and people with whom we can do no wrong. And at other times and with other people we never seem to get it right. Sometimes we go through a length of time when it seems like we'll never get it right or find the right one ever again. Then, out of nowhere, the next SO in our life appears.

In my case, I had to wait until I was 43 until I got lucky. I thought I had found the one when I was 19 and when I was 29 and so on. But no matter how I look at it now, everything had to happen the way it did for me and for her before I found (or re-found - we grew up in the same neighborhood) my current wife.

I can't say that we're an ideal fit that will last the test of time, but she is proof positive to me that all that we are meant to experience in this lifetime will all happen in its own sweet time. And, try as we might to fight it, it's going to happen in its own way anyway, so we might as well try our best to enjoy the ride.

--J

I agree with you Jeffree... .DAS, you just have to continue to have hope, and work on other things that make you happy in the meantime.  x

Wait, wait, wait.

W2K, didn't this guy HIT you in the past?

I am worried for you. 

I think what you need to ask yourself is what would make YOU allow yourself to be so vulnerable with someone who not only emotionally but physically abused you?

What would you tell your best friend if she were in the same boat?

Sigh.  I'm worried for you.  Oh yeah.  I already said that.

VanessaG

Yes, he physically abused me once (head butts), and I experienced his emotional abuse daily.  With some distance between us (he doesn't live here anymore, and I see him maybe once a week - either out in town, or him stopping by my house), there is no more verbal abuse, and I never put myself in the situation of potential physical abuse anymore (ie. drinking alone with him).  So, those things aren't present when he stops by.  

I know they happened, and in some way I have moved on from those bad memories, for a variety of reasons, so all I get now when he stops by is the person I am/have always been highly attracted to.  That's just the reality of it. I know the question is how can I enjoy and want to be with someone who is like he is and has done what he's done.  That's the complex thing about attraction... .it's not always attached to the logical brain.

What can I say... .I know on some level it's not healthy for me, but on another level, I enjoy it immensely.  I have not stopped, in any way, my pursuit of other men that are good for me.  I engage with my community daily, and always have an eye out for good men who I might be interested in pursuing something with.

I would tell a friend going through the same situation that she needs to be careful with what she is doing and not let it impede in any future healthy relationships, but I would also be able to empathize with what and why she is doing it, reiterating the need for her to do some soul searching.  That is where I'm at now... .soul searching, with the help of all you folks.   x

Please be very careful with this.  You've moved on from the bad memories... . all you get now is the person you've been highly attracted to.  Are you saying that he has really changed something deep about himself?  Are you still risking verbal abuse when he's sober?

IMO, unless he's done some serious work on himself, the reality of the situation is your history with him, with all of him.  The reality is you're still spinning a roulette wheel and sooner or later, the new, charrming honeymoon stage will wear off.

Why risk putting yourself through this again?

He has not changed, and probably never will.  I know that.  What has changed is our situation.  He is now free to do what he wants.  Before he felt like a kept man and was triggering his abuse.  If he does start being that way again, I will ask him to leave, and/or tell him to not stop by anymore.  What I am risking is continued emotional attachment to him... .that is why I'm posting all of this.  That is what I know is not good for me.  That is what I need to work towards, and am finding it difficult because our recent encounters have been great.  We both are looking elsewhere, but in the meantime, every so often we find comfort in each others company.  We may both have different ways we find comfort in each other, but that's what it is.  Once that stops, I'm sure the visits will stop.  In the meantime, I am finding it difficult to turn him away when he shows up.  I won't find it difficult if he becomes abusive again.  That, I promise.

W2K -- as I started to read your post, I was thinking of a reply, "promise that you will cut it the minute it becomes abusive again."

I'm glad to see you're using the word promise.  Please make sure it's a promise to yourself -- that's where it's crucial.

Yes, it is an internal promise that I am highly aware of and look for when he's here.  It's almost like I'm detached from him in a self-protecting way and can see what he's doing now, much more than when he lived here.  My solace is that this is my house and not his anymore, and I DO have control over that, and he knows it.

For example, the last time he was here (Monday night), I let him and his kid/dog stay overnight, but in the morning, I could tell he wanted to stay when I went to work (it was raining and his job is outside, so he didn't have to go).  I would not let him stay, but didn't say it directly, yet he knew he couldn't stay by the things I was saying and doing.  I can sense he knows I'm different now and will not take his crap.  Perhaps, that's why he's being so nice... .if he doesn't act the way I want him to, he knows I won't let him in.  That's my power over the situation, and is probably why he doesn't show up more often.  It's got to be an ego buster for him, in some way.