BPDFamily.com

I am sure you all are good people.  If you were not good people you would not be on this board trying to deal with your hurt and, for the most part, taking responsibility for something you should not be taking responsibility for (that being your partners craziness).  It amazes me that the topics of conversation on this board never change, they are always the same.  Which just proves that people with BPD are generally all the same and we all have dealt with very similar issues.  The similar issues are we were allowed to be sucked in by these people, used, abused and then dumped or left with no choice but to leave.  I believe most of us fell in love with the way they made us feel in the beginning.  Being in a relationship with a pwBPD is like being addicted to crack... .it makes you feel great in the beginning... .then you end up spending the rest of the relationship trying to get back to the way you felt in the beginning and it just never works... .you just end up being a shell of a human being.

These people live off a script, they know exactly what to say to us to get us hooked.  It is not because there is something wrong with us... .who does not want to hear they are amazing?  Most of us probably did not know anything about BPD before we got involved with someone who had it.   They feed us what they know we want to hear (what anything decent lovable human being wants to hear) just long enough to get their hooks in.  They have been perfecting their script for years... .I do believe it is a script.  My ex, literally would use the same pitiful story with EVERYONE... .with me, before me, after me... .however after each relationship failed she would perfect her script even more for the next unsuspecting person.  Once the hooks are in, their true colors come out.  It is when their true colors come out... .we end up on this message board.

After having gone through this and being where most of you are the best advice I can give is go no contact.  Stop giving these people the power to hurt you.  They really do not care... .they do not have the capability to care... .they will emotionally hurt you in ways you could never imagine hurting someone because they just really are that messed up.  They have many of the same characteristics of sociopaths... .and actually I think a sociopath may actually treat their spouses better.  :)  Take control of your life again.  It is going to hurt like hell... .but it gets better.  I do believe in love... .I have seen it and lived it (not with my exBPDgf).  Find a hobby, take a class do something to keep your mind off of it.  :)o something to make yourself better.  In the end, you will be a better person for it and they will still be the same pitiful, pathetic, lonely people that they are... .and that is the best revenge you can get.  |iiii

A hallmark of a BPD relationship is emotional immaturity by both partners. It may not be about "good people" (us) and "bad people" (them) - if we're totally honest, many of us acted badly too.  

An emotionally mature and grounded person does not get into such relationship turmoil and even if they did, they would stop and reassess their decision process and values, and make changes - not become involved enmeshed in the dysfunction and lay the responsibility for it on the partner.  This part is on us - we need to take responsibility for it.

The message is not "no contact" - the message is really about making healthier choices.  In a relationship and its aftermath, we make thousands of decisions, we make them day after day (we are still making them), and if we make bad decisions, over and over again, we have problems.

BPD is a real mental illness and a person with this disorder will have a history of failed relationships.  It sounds like you had a rough go of it - and your partner behaved terribly.   Mine did, too.

Once our partner is gone from our life we have a choice - to disavow our role in the dysfunction and hope for the best - or to look at our role and make changes.


It is you. It was me too.    

Skippy

I, for one, was a bit too realistic to believe everything my ex told me about myself. But, believing even half of it, or that there was some feeling behind it of genuine love, I still got pulled in. I wanted to be pulled in. I sometimes, jokingly, told her that I thought she may have been slightly brain damaged to believe I was as good and "pretty" as she always said. I think my distrust of this was one part of why she started to devalue me.

I wanted her to love me totally, but I didn't need the constant reassurance that I was perfect. I didn't think I had to be and don't want to be "perfect". I got past that a years ago, and  I consider myself a work in progress, and I believed her to be one too. My compassion was my undoing in this. I was willing to have her lean on me for a while, while growing and healing, but it wasn't something I could have kept up with forever, and by the time that we broke up, I was already getting frustrated. I'm sure she sensed it. No SO should be a fixer-upper.

You probably ignored or didn't understand a lot of little behaviors that someone with better boundaries wouldn't have put up with even before things got wildly out of hand. I know I did. I see it more clearly every day. I was ripe for it. Vulnerable. I had just came out of a marriage of 10 years with someone that was also disordered, who I'm starting to realize may also have BPD.

My GF was just as unhealthy, but her variation of the disorder was quiet, more passive-aggressive, she'd often make me feel horribly by being upset, rather than angry, which was far more effective than my exW, with her rages. But, I was still living in a skewed reality, because parts of what my exGF did were intolerable and frightening on their own, and a healthier person would have walked away, or else enforced boundaries.

I have always wanted to be a "good man". I put up with intolerable behavior to be a "good man". I was compassionate even after I was screwed over because I'm a "good man". But, my core belief has been wrong about that. You don't need to sacrifice your life to other people for this concept. You have to be good to yourself, first and foremost, and if you aren't then you're hurting the closest one to you.

Disgruntled - I am really glad that you made this post because I think that it raises some good points and Skip also raises some good points about it.  I have been not posting and reading as much on this board because I do feel that many have turned to the circular BPD thinking that their BPDSO's engaged in.  It seems to me that we need to acknowledge both parts theirs and ours in the mix.  I acknowledge that my BPDh is sick and does not think in accordance with what would be deemed normal.  I also acknowledge that my giver nature allowed me to hand over little pieces of myself to him at every turn and probably stems back to observing my NPD mom and walking on eggshells dad... .learned at a very early age that marriage was not about your happiness but the happiness of another. 

All that being said I do find that way too much time is spent rehashing the past and I don't say this lightly because I have been with my BPDh for 16 years.  I have spent about the past year separating myself from this man and pulling the pieces of myself back together for the better.  And I am still living with him.  I know my role and his but I choose not to be a victim.  I see everything in life as a learning experience and this has been quite a road of hard knocks a path I chose to walk.  I was blind to it and I am much stronger and wiser now.  I am not paranoid because I do believe in love and friendship and that giving to those who appreciate it, without sacrificing yourself, is an important thing in life.

I don't necessarily think that sick is the best term for us, perhaps immature in our belief in others and inexperienced with healthy relationships.  They are still the ill ones because we will have the ability to move forward and the potential to be in healthy relationships while they will be stuck in the same meaningless, sex based relationships in the future.

I actually spoke to my counselor at my last session about how I am struggling with some of the victimization that is portrayed here.  I think that both parties roles need to be acknowledged but I also think that if you chose this relationship and then chose to get out then at least that shows some level of health because many live in these relationships their entire lives... .ie.  my parents and my BPDh's parents and never leave.  Now that is the equivalent of being sick.  Understanding that this relationship was unhealthy is healthy and shows a marked difference in many of us vs. many of those who are still living in them. 

Disgruntled - definitely take some time to check out the L5 posts.  Tend to focus a little more on the healing aspects and a little less focus put on the BPDSO. 

Sorry, I really hope that I didn't step on any toes here as I do realize that many have been through unbelievable turmoil and I wish to do nothing to add to that.  Guess I would just like a little more focus on the ways in which we can move forward with our lives and a little less focus on how sick we all are and how we will never get over the hurt and pain and how we will never be ready to have a functional relationship.  We deserve better and now we need to move forward and prepare ourselves to be open to accepting it.  Sometimes you just need to let go, turn it over to a higher power, and start looking forward instead of back.   

What a great post! I could not agree with you more. These relationships are every bit as much about us as them. We have every bit the issues that they do or we never would of entered the relationship in the first place.

I leave her nearly three months ago, and even still I struggle to regain my life from her. Slowly but surely getting control on my life back, but I fear until I can stop thinking about her completely, she'll still have a hold somewhere, controlling whether I'm angry or resentful about something. 

So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains

And we never even know we have the key ~ Don Henley (Already Gone)

Very profound thought... .thanks for sharing it Skip!  xoxox

I once heard it put this way: we tend to end up with romantic partners who are at about the same level of emotional maturity as we are. The details may be different, in important ways, but the level is about the same.

I resisted this idea for quite awhile, but I think it's about right.

I think we both had missing parts of ourselves, that we were trying to use the other person to fill.

I think we both saw an idealized image of the other, instead of having a clear view.

There were lots of other ways. Again, the details were different - my failings or dysfunctions didn't land me in any psych wards - but the ways in which we were actually similar are too much to ignore.

I'm just now starting to realize this.  THIS part is the scary part, coming to terms with myself.  See she took a chance and became clear about who she is and what she's dealing with. She's seeking help to try and correct herself.  I excused our r/s with her BPD for a long time.  Now,  there is no excuse and I can't deny my part any longer.  It's time to work on me instead of focus on her.

left

Skip... .I am not perfect, never have been... .far from it.  I did things and said things in this relationship that I neverthought I was capable of.  I, in the words of my therapist, reached my breaking point.  It is absolutely 100% my fault what I let happen. I was in an 8 year relationship which was healthy, until we both grew apart... .there was not even a fraction of the craziness I experienced with my exBPDgf. I said go no contact because it is the best way to get these people out of your head.  They will continue to screw with you if you do not put your foot down and say enough is enough... .and that is a fact... .whether it be a phone call two months from now... .an email... .and 'accidental' text message... .a facebook friend request... .one way or another... .they will screw with you just to see if you still want them and/or to get a reaction out of you. I have made positive changes in my life and think that I am a stronger person because of my experiences with exBPD.  I know what the red flags are now and will never allow myself to be in this type of relationship again. I am not sick or crazy... .having the strength to walk away is very sane. I have a very different outlook than I did last August. 

I have a different take on this Disgruntled.  The behavior that many call "manipulation" I see as reactive behavior or acts of desperation.  I don't think it's actual manipulation at all, as least not most of the time.  That requires the mind to skillfully form step by step instructions.   BPD's lack the ability to regulate their emotions, much less consistently plan a step by step manipulation. 

Their emotional development is typically believed to be at a 2-4 yr old level.  Would you call a 2-4 yr old intentionally manipulative?  I highly doubt it.

Believe me I understand the stage you are in (or what it seems by your thought process here).  I was there too, and had the same anger over being "played" when I gave someone my all, with no game playing on my part whatsoever!  But that isn't what's going on here, it's a real disorder, not a game in the least.

And I believe you really are seeing their true colors throughout the r/s, including the glorious beginning and honeymoon period.  They want things to be perfect, and start out with the best of intentions fueled by false illusions, fantasy, etc (whatever tricks their minds must perform to keep them coping and surviving).  Soon however they are once again faced with the cold reality that nothing or no one will ever make them feel good about who they really are.  You are no longer worthy, because if you were so great, why are you dating such an emotional disaster?  They believe they are unworthy, and therefore anyone who loves them must be unworthy or defective too. On to something new, to make me feel good about me once again.  Their disorder has them playing this scenario out time and time again, eventually with new players.  The filling of their love bucket (or the other things they turn to: drugs, infidelity... .or pick one) was only a temporary divertion from the empty worthlessness they feel on the inside, but can't cope with.   

I personally believe that in the beginning they truly believe they are in love, for real, for good, and this one is it.  I think they meant what they said, at that time.  And felt it as intensely as anyone can.  However, their emotions are fleeting, ever changing, their root system is shallow, and they lack the skills and emotional development for real bonding or intimacy.


 

At the end of my pending divorce, I will wish her well and I will mean it. Over the last 22 years, she has brought out the worst in me, and I found out plenty about myself.

I don't want revenge... .I want peace in my heart and soul. If that means I will spend the rest of my life without a partner to get that, I can accept that. If somebody comes my way that fills the need for love but does not disturb my quest for peace, all the better.

All said and done, I chose to marry my uBPDw. I knew something wasn't quite right with her, but I thought I could fix her. I didn't even know her 6 months before we married. I can blame her for a lot of things, but I am responsible for my own actions.

WG

Thank you for this, Skip. I would never blame everything on my ex. In fact I started to learn about BPD because I was trying to figure out what MY disorder is, that allowed me to create the other 50% of a very toxic relationship.

I did and said things I am not proud of, that bordered on abusive. Maybe I even was abusive at times. It kills me to think that. No matter what my ex did, nobody deserves to have abusive behavior or words directed at them.

I don't blame him for my behavior. I know it goes back to my own abandonment issues.

We all need to face, we have something in our past that made us behave just as crazily as our exes. For, is it not crazy, at the very minimum, to tolerate a lot of the things we tolerated? By simply staying in the rel'ship after the first angry abusive outburst, or the first lie, or the first cheating episode, we've shown how sick we are, as well.

You can choose your reaction and how you look at any situation. If she's not in your life anymore, the only person who is making you feel angry or resentful, is YOU.

This is Bowen "family systems" theory.  The theory was developed by Murray Bowen, M.D. in the late 1940’s and early 1950’s, when he was a psychiatrist at the Menninger Clinic. After his time at Menninger’s, he moved to the National Institute of Mental Health, to Georgetown University Medical Center and finally established the Georgetown Family Center in Washington, D.C. (http://www.thebowencenter.org/index.html)

An individual’s overall life functioning is linked closely to his level of emotional maturity or differentiation. People select ... .partners who have the same level of emotional maturity. Emotional immaturity manifests in unrealistic needs and expectations. ~ Murray Bowen, M.D

Walrus, I agree that we always have a choice of how long you stay in the relationship and because of that you are half the problem.  At least with my exgf she is pretty much set on doing the absolute worst thing in any given situation.  I gave her another chance and told her not to lie to me and she went ahead and did it anyway.  I choose not to put up with it any longer, but to say that I'm at fault for getting involved in the first place just doesn't seem right.  I didn't know she was lying to me in the beginning.  I think we become the problem when we do find that out and deny the truth anyway.    


I'm with you on that, I was very lenient with mine and didn't say half the things I wanted to.  No sense in fueling the fire, they always use what you say against you anyway.  

   

   I stayed in an abusive relationship. Did you? Until you surrender to the idea that you have issues too, nothing will change. My pride got in the way. I was "the good person", I "had my s__t togther", so I thought. Half of this situation WAS me. I had issues long before this relationship. All I had to do is think back on previous relationships to realize the type of people I was always drawn to.

   The only way I got any relief on thinking about her was to replace it with thinking about me. What I needed to change about ME. I went through a hell of a depression over this but I'm better today. Tomorrow might suck but today I feel good. So I know I will get thru this. I've given up all the reading on BPD, I understand their issue. I gota get an understanding, and get a handle, on MY issues.

Is forgiving a good or bad quality?  On this forum I'm hearing it as both, but confused, as which should it be and when?

something I've been wondering alot lately is how the Dalai Lama would cope in a relationship with my BPDgf?

Would the Dalai Lama forgive my gf if he were me, or would he pack he have packed his bags at the first sight of trouble?    Would he be codependent if he stayed? 

I know its not the best analogy, but do we need to be like the dalai lama to be considered as not having any 'issues' ourselves as nons?

I thought the Dalai Lama was perpetually single, so he wouldn't have gotten involved in a relationship BPD or not.  :)  Anyway, he's human like the rest of us and would assuredly feel the same frustration if put in the same situation. You should forgive the BPD's actions so that you're not hoarding anger for the rest of your life.  Forgiveness means that you put it aside and leave it in the past.  You don't keep coming back to it.  You learn from it and move on.  


Busted.   

I actually saw a tweet from the Dalai Lama last week that I felt helpful in my journey and when I saw this post, I thought I'd share

In general I think that anger is a sign of weakness and tolerance a sign of strength - Dalai Lama

When I start to feel angry at my exBPD, I reread this message.  I know that this relationship was my fault too and I owned up to that fact when he and I broke up.  I knew at different points that he wasn't treating me properly but I stayed because I didn't want to give up on MY dream.  So I kept sacrificing myself because that's what I thought you did when it's real love -you don't give up... .

When he and I did finally split, I owned up to my role in a long email where I told him my full experience and how I kept my pain from him.  I can walk away knowing that I am an adult who took responsibility.  Of course, he never has and never will because he is mentally ill.

We have to remember that.  I have good friends with other mental illnesses and they're experience and view on the world is not the same as ours.  It's not an excuse for bad behaviour but next time you want revenge or you wish them ill, remember that "life" is kind've already doing that.

Forgiveness is a gift for yourself! To forgive someone doesn't mean there needs to be a reconciliation. We need to forgive so that we are not perpetually angry, become bitter, unable to move forward. In reality, when they are out of our lives our lack of forgiveness only speaks to or emotional maturity.

This is very true in my case as well.  I wanted my exBPD to "save" me just as much as he wanted me to "save" him.  I overlooked a lot of red-flag because of it. 

Now that I see it, I'm working on saving myself.

Also want to add, this is a very important thread so thanks Skip for moving it back up the board.

This is an excellent thread.  

Their is the old saying that a relationship is 50/50, and each partner must put in 100% effort to make it work.  We non's (if we are truely non's as sometimes it is hard to tell) have our own issues.

I want out of my r/s.  I am in the FOG however.  My guilt of telling her I want out is exactly why I need out.  I have a huge part in the situation I/we are in.  My codependency mixed with my immature need to get meaning from another needs to be fixed.  I can't see it happening while I am living with or even dating her.  

Yet... .I struggle with what and how to tell her I no longer want to pursue our r/s.  I assume that is my codependency not allowing me to breatk it off, combined with her intense ability to get me to reinforce my commitment to her at every turn.  I am not sure there is anything I can say at my departure which she will accept, and therein lies a difficult if not impossible hurdle to overcome for a codependent non.  I need to find the discussion on how to actually break it off when you are to weak to just stand there and take the rage and just own the decision.

Oh, I'm sick all right. I don't have a problem in seeing that there is something wrong when one is in a relationship where 80% of the time one is frustrated, angry, hurt, lonely, and depressed. I wasn't depressed because of what my partner was or wasn't doing. I was depressed because I knew I had a love affair with a fantasy. But I didn't want to leave... .I wanted to prove I could COMMIT to the relationship, hell or high water. I needed to turn over every stone before waving the white flag.

The part that is completely mine is CHOOSING to rationalize away behaviors that I would normally run from. This was because I was very lonely and DIDN'T KNOW IT, because I was still grieving the loss of my father and mother. I resurrected the whole family with this relationship. Uncannily, each and every thing that happened was almost identical to the courtship my parents had with each other. They were married over 20 years in hell until my mother left... .by dying close to the age I am at now.

The difference is... .I left after four years. And I am quite alive.

Peace

Soodone

I was brought up with a 'knight' complex.  (Literally, the first stories I can remember were from tales of Arthur's Knights of the Round Table.)  Then, my father died, and I acquired a terrible fear of abandonment. Mix in a lonely adolescence, some social awkwardness, and a mother who was overworked and naturally distant... .and then pick a BPD as your first girlfriend to make sure you have no reference points for normal romantic behavior... .Then, make sure that you're stubborn, self-sufficient, and a bit of a loner.  And heck, you might choose to stay for 8 years.  Sigh.

I think I was drawn to her because she needed me... .

Meh... .at this point, I distinguish between nons and sane people.  My presumption is that staying in a R/S with a BPD for more than 3 months is sufficient to diagnose that the person in question has at least one significant issue.  Of course, a lot of people do.

--Argyle

ohhhh... .how i loved this thread ! but what most of you must rememeber who have posted here, is that you've turned a corner... new members will be still paralysed with FOG... .& have very little understanding of what the hell just happened.

This thread is delightfully insightful & must be bumped up on a regular basis to give the new joiners the other half that they need to think about.  yes my x acted badly... .but you know what? the guilt i carry is because so did I - in a different way yes! but I did & i feel like i can't forgive myself sometimes ! you know the story if i hadn't acted like i did then we'd still be together !

what separates the ex from the non is that with time we have the ability to self reflect and yes after self reflecting i want to tell my x everything that i've learnt... .how it all makes sense.  but she was never interested & certainly won't care now... .so this painful journey & accepting the s__tty reality is for me, & me alone so i don't bl**dy repeat it !

xxxx

This thread is perfect for me right now. Just stumbled acrossed it... .how perfect.

So I just broke it off with her like last week. I am doing my best to go NC but the thing is that I actually saw her FB feed saying

"officially giving up, so tired of always failing... .I think I need a break". It just breaks my heart to see how she is heading towards with school. I wished she wouldn't have pushed me out because I wanted to be there for her, so what I did was post a public post on my page hoping she knows that I do care about you even though she dumped me. Is this a bad thing? I don't know this whole thing is breaking my heart somehow.

My first time using the quote feature, hopefully it worked :)

I know I keep quoting my therapist but sometimes she makes a comment that really stays with me and provokes further thought. During one visit with her she told me my husband and me coming together was the "perfect storm". At first I wasn't sure what she meant by that but now, I get it. I get it.

Regarding Skip's quote and emotional maturity, I had never heard that term until I went to a work related training when I was in my 40's. ! It was a  :light: experience and I remember thinking, wow, I don't think I have that.

Perfectly said.

Thank you, I found this helpful even though I am currently staying. I am hoping to take back control of my life from my pwBPD while still remaining in the r/s.

I think so much of what we find acceptable are the standards we are brought up to believe by our families.  imo I grew up with a BPD mother and an npd father, so a n/BPD partner was the 'normal', its all I ever knew... .despite how abusive it is in reality.  I think we have to acknowledge what does and doesn't work for us as adults and discard/change what doesn't to create a new 'normal'. 

healing daisy, I agree, and today I'm having problems with my dad, in addition to the usual problems with my partner, so I will try to address them on the coping board.

[THIS part is the scary part, coming to terms with myself]


This is what I find extremely hard. I know getting into that relationship has more to do with me. I have picked that character... .it's not normal for someone to shower you with compliments all the time for months... .I did think at that time... .that's too good to be true.

If I was healthy, I would've picked that up. Too bad I needed the attention at that time.

  loved this message ... .THANK YOU
I am currently building up the courage to officially let fully go of my BPDbf. It has been 3 yrs of confusing downs and not many ups.  I’ve put up so many boundaries that it doesn’t feel like a relationship anymore and I’m letting so many better opportunities pass me by. My friends only know a quarter of the stories of what happened in my relationship and they’re telling me to run for the hills. I’m not happy and it feels like I’m hiding a dark secret. I don’t understand my purpose with him. We haven’t said “I love u” yet and I know that stage will never happen with him.