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Hello Leaving Board!

Article 9  Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder on the website has helped me heal, stay NC and accept BPD more than any other thing that I read (trust me, there has been a lot).  

We are getting closer to all 10 - thank you for those who have shared thus far.  

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder  [Read original text here] (https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm#8)

"We often think that by holding back or depriving our “BPD” partner of “our love” – that they will “see the light”. We base this on all the times our partner expressed how special we were and how incredible the relationship was.

Absence may makes the heart grow fonder when a relationship is healthy – but this is often not the case when the relationship is breaking down.

People with BPD traits often have object permanence issues – “out of sight is out of mind”. They may feel, after two weeks of separation, the same way you would feel after six.
<br/>:)istancing can also trigger all kinds of abandonment and trust issues for the “BPD” partner (as described in #4).

Absence generally makes the heart grow colder."

For me, the separation allowed me some clarity and in that clarity, I was able to recharge my batteries.  Being married, I did not think it an option to leave, so that was not my focus during our separations.

I travel a lot with work and I can look back and see how so much of the acting out behaviour was triggered during these times.  I didn't know why, but this false belief really helped me see how my job was a problem in our relationship.


What do you all think of this false belief and how did it apply to your relationship?

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More information

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder (https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles9.htm)

1) Belief that this person holds the key to your happiness (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=140180.0)

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=140819.0)

3) Belief that the relationship problems are caused by you or some circumstance (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141354.0)

4) Belief that love can prevail (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141854.0)

5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"  (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=142324.0)

6) Clinging to the words that were said  (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=154460)

7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143873.0)

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=144988.0)

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.  (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=145967.0)

10) Belief that they have seen the light (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=154341.0)

Honestly, when I first read that, months ago, it made me feel terribly sad and depressed.

Not sure if it had much of an impact to my detachment process, other than knowing that I'm sure ex has moved on by now.

This was true in my case.  The detachment my stbx seemed to feel early into our divorce process was hard for me.  I as hurting terribly and he was getting on with his life as if our 31 years of marriage meant nothing to him.  Stbxh seemed pretty pleased with himself that he was over me and feeling good about life even though his T warned him that the emotions would come later. 

I was used to my H chasing me and wanting to spend all his time with me (can you say enmeshment  :)).  To see him do an about face was unexpected and hurtful.  Secretly I thought his fear of abandonment would keep him from seriously considering divorce.

So absolutely, absence made his heart grow colder.  I deal with it by attributing this to his mental illness and not taking it personally.

I've come to the realization that striking a balance between detaching and giving love and validation is the way to go, even if distance is required.

Most abandonment issues come from (very) early childhood. So image that you, as a distancing partner, is in fact seen as playing the role of the distancing parent by the pwBPD. A loving parent would probably call the child every day, perhaps more often en offer loving and comforting words.

The child wants validation, comfort and security in love. So does the pwBPD.

If you are truly
and can detach in that way, offering love and validation freely (without consideration of the reaction) is the way to go.

Like AlexDP mentioned, considering their rebound in thinking, it is too simple to consider this 'out-of-sight is out-of-mind'. It is more a defense mechanism for survival.

Out-of-sight is forcing them to search for comfort and love elsewhere and you are banished as an unloving parent. Not forgotten, but isolated/dissociated from their feelings, because of the sheer pain the separation and denial of love and validation causes.

Playing the push/pull game is something they may do, but if you play along thinking the game is like 'normal' people play, you are mistaken. The push/pull is a boundary test of your love for them.

"Are you still there and do you still love me even if I push you away?"

At least, that's my take on this... .

As you all know, mine moved to Chicago for a job and began acting out alot of this long distance.

However, the year before bc she wasn't working, I was anxious and began working a second job, my regular job, and went to school a couple of times per week. I believe this all was perceived as abandonment, also some jealousy bc she could not find a job, in July she was calling me her cheerleader when I drove with her to an interview, by January I was a persecutor. 

I found this website and I too thought once she got a job things would settle down and maybe we could find a way, but then I saw this myth and thank goodness. She has moved on as well and completely focused on getting her needs met, anyway, my heart has grown colder as well. So the long distance works well for me.

I think #8 is correct immediately after a break up, but that anything can trigger them to change.  I broke up with my uBPDxbf which certainly put me in the black.  Seven months of very LC, he contacts my best friend out of desparation to find out how the kids and I are doing ~ practically begging her to tell him if we were OK.  She didn't respond, so he texted me.  When I didn't respond he had his best friend text me. I kept NC, but what caused the sudden interest in my well-being I'll never know.  Why he painted me from black to white (I guess) when we are not even communicating is a mystery.  I think this scenero happens often and is why us nons will get contacted months or even years down the road.  I don't believe it's our 'absence' that makes them fond of us or not, it's something in their life that triggers them to react and change their mind from one stance to another that really doesn't have anything to do with 'us'.

So that's exactly what happened to me, I got text and my friend got text with Are you and your family ok? at 4:30 AM, I figured it was some weird reaction to having been here the weekend before and not seeing me, or contacting me... .turns out it was guilt visiting my family friend. 

I also travel a good bit and only regret not even knowing about BPD much less that my exbf suffered from this mental illness. I used to tell him that I thought he "derailed" and "forgot about us" when we were apart for periods of time... .Aghh... .How was to know that he was literally "forgetting" me, our love for each other during my trips overseas? When we were together physically, he was wonderful, loving as if I we were never apart... .but when I was away, he always "distanced himself" as time passed on and we were away from each ... .This baffled me as I missed him terribly and couldn't wait to see him again? It just didn't make any sense to me... .until I came to know about BPD?

This #8 is horrifically painful for me to accept... .It also "confuses me" as I am not sure what is even "normal' anymore? Is it normal to "dump" someone out of nowhere and "forget" the love, all the time spent, the dreams for future, etc... ? Is it "normal" for the heart to "grow colder" like this with nonBPDs? In other relationship breakups (it's been a long time now, but?) I never remember being treated as "out of sight, out of mind"... .It was sad and took some time to get over but... .but, I sincerely don't ever remember hurting as deeply as I do now and feeling so utterly confused... .I guess I'm completed lost and "all over the place" with all of this BPD stuff... .I'm trying to accept this, however, I truly am... .Thank you very much for this post. I needed to remember this... .

"People with BPD also have real object constancy issues - “out of sight is out of mind”. They may feel, after two weeks of separation, the same way you would feel after six.

Absence generally makes the heart grow colder."

Mine is still stalking me and has been since Jan, honestly I dont see it stoping. 40, broke, 5 kids by four dads and knows I bought a ring last christmas before things blew up? I'm in a pickle here... .

i'll second or ninth the notion that the object constancy issues definitely exist, but weirdly vary.

my ex had perceived that i'd abandoned her, and i hardly saw her over the next two months. meanwhile she was installing my replacement. somewhere in the middle of it i'd gotten us concert tickets, and we spent two long weekends in a row together and had a great time and no fighting. she was talking in a text about what a "privilege" it was (she wasn't being sarcastic) to see so much of me. this sounded odd at the time. sure we hadn't seen that much of each other lately, but this seemed pretty normal to me. i didn't notice anything at the time, but i suspect if i went back in time as a fly on the wall, things might have seemed "different". i think i remember her thinking something was up with me or wrong with me when i first arrived. she told me when i left she felt she had fallen even more in love with me. i think she was "remembering" me. after this i repeatedly had to decline spending time with her. then she got sick. then she turned very, very distant. then we had a fight, and the "break up" conversation.

what's ironic about this "false belief" is that this was one of the repeating themes that actually ran through my head during our relationship. it's something i thought in my own mind. it's something i told her when she couldn't seem to understand the concept of us having some solitude and alone time rather than staying cooped up for 4 or 5 days. it was a concept i think she understood in general. but not with me. she always interpreted it as "i needed to get away from her". i did "break up with her" all of those times, not consciously, but at least partially in an effort to make her finally truly see and understand the damage she would do in her rages or episodes. never seeming to mean it doesn't exactly teach learned behavior.

immediate absence, i think, tends to make their hearts grow the fondest. we'd spend 5 days together, and might be at each other's throats, we might have fought constantly. but she had the hardest time tearing herself away, leaving on her own, or letting me leave. i always felt badly doing so. we'd always try to arrange for a friend to come over when i was leaving. i recall one time that just broke my heart. i was working tough hours (for me, because they were early, and im always up late) so i wasn't spending the night. i'd stay with her until she fell asleep then i'd drive home. one of the first nights we tried that, she fell asleep while i was having a cigarette, so i left. she woke up. didn't realize i'd left. looked around her apartment for me expecting/hoping to find me. realized i was gone. i didn't have my cell phone on me so she couldn't call or text me. this made her cry. still makes me sad to think that anyone would feel that way.

lets see. i actually had a specific memory today that i think has to do with the object constancy... .or atleast going from black to white. she was always really into my drumming. we had one of our first fights real real early on. she was raging. when she snapped out of it and we were making up she said in a cutesy way/voice "i forgot you play the drums!" and she told me (half seriously) that if she ever gets mad or pissed off at me just remind her that i play the drums. i think this was an illustration of "remembering" me. she didn't literally forget i played the drums. it was "its like i forgot how i actually feel about you and i remember again!" or atleast that's how i see it.

but having her invade my privacy and get into my email account for over two months after our breakup, and nearly three months of not having seen her, WHILE she's with the new guy contradicts those object constancy issues. so does all of the stalking members here describe, and all of the reengaging, some of it really long term. surely they don't seem to forget us.

What do i think of this? - Devastated...

having a conversation at work today and the new girl asked me if i was in a relationship... automatically i say yes... *catch myself* and explain how we are apart at the moment etc.

Not wanting to discuss my personal business at work i try and change the subject... she comes out with " Absence makes the heart grow fonder and how she thinks the space would make him miss me more"

Cue her telling me about her husband who ironically has the same name as BPD... and outlining there seemingly healthy relationship. Me and her are the same age... .i look at my life... and hers... very similar... except for having a healthy partner.

In normal settings... .maybe... but we are dealing with BPD here... .as i walked for lunch... i got very emotional about this thought... Absence makes the heart grow colder?... .but how? after 2 years?

Ticking on to 5pm here in the UK... and for once... im dreading the weekend  :'(

This myth kept me stuck in the relationship a lot longer than I wish I would have. I so wish I would have found this site 2 years in like you Lightattheendofthetunnel.

I would break up with him and not talk to him and a few weeks or months later he would call me and I would think that he finally go it. I would think that my absence finally made him see what he was missing out on.

You know a part of me Marcie still wishes he would miss me and come to his senses

This devastates me too.  Before I realized she was BPD waif I told her if she is already falling in love a week after professing her love to me then her love wasn't deep.  She said she is with someone new but still hurting but I don't believe her.  I've gone NC and just one text in 7 days (we used to text every day).  So I think she only thinks of me when her new girlfriend isn't filling her up to the top with attention.  After we broke up she begged me to come and see her and reconnect.  I wonder if she thought she'd fade from my mind if I didn't see her?  To think that she is not missing me is excruciating.  And makes me feel like the earth is moving under my feet - I feel so shaken up, like it makes me question what I thought was real... .

"Object constancy" is a developmental milestone in every human brain. It means that it is difficult for someone who has not reached this milestone to understand that certain things remain "constant" - the sun always rises, breakfast is always at 7, the people around them love them just like they did yesterday,etc.

If someone doesn't reach this milestone how is this related to, or "confirmation" that pwBPD "can not see humanity" in others?

babies know their mothers are human, but they don't know that mommy isn't REALLY magically gone during peek a boo. That's why peek a boo is FUN!... .until it isn't.  It's a game of object constancy.

Or is it a marker of a disease known for it's stunted developmental milestones?


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I used to move on with my life during the weeks long bouts of silent treatment and ignoring... .and I noticed too that the longer we were apart, the more he "forgot" who I was to him. The more he could "split me black", and my being away ratcheted up the trust issues multiplefold - even thought he was the one who would "start it" and not be around me, only to return with accuastions.

After a lot of thinking about it, I realized that I used to stay around him becsaue if I didn't, things would worsen. I was "trying to control the sitution" by being around him and good to him - like that could prevent "the absence". That's just plan unhelpful.

All of that absence put oceans between us - and that might be a good thing- it definately is right now.

from everything i gather, borderlines can't seem to sustain feelings of just about any kind. they can't sustain happiness, they can't sustain seem to sustain love, they can't seem to sustain relationships, they can't sustain feelings of security/safety. they can't sustain an identity. on the other hand, they often can't sustain the black they paint us with.

i have a few experiences of my own, and some of the things i've read here gave me some mental pictures.

i can't recall when exactly it was, but it was fairly early on in our relationship when my ex was speaking about her first ex. she was speaking very plainly about her bad behavior and the terrible ways she treated him. she said she honestly couldn't figure out why/how he even liked her. a couple of months ago, i read something laowho posted about written by gunderson about the 3 levels of emotion in a borderline, and it spoke of the moments of clarity they have when they're forming new attachments. it said essentially they can look back and see their role, in more words. i believe that is what she was doing. our attachment was new. i can also recall around this time what i suspect was a MAJOR fib. her first boyfriend played the keys. she pulled out this cd, and put it in, claiming that this recording was in fact her, in a moment of prodigious virtuosity, playing as if possessed. i KNEW that was bs as soon as i heard it. i also play keys, and i've seen her at a keyboard. what she told was a whopper. i forget how i put it all together, but im 99% positive that it was a recording of her boyfriend, very likely made to soothe her at night when she tends to get all lonely/clingy. this is a weird thing to do, i think. but i'll bet lots and lots of borderlines engage in this behavior. i think many of them try to "remember" us because of these object constancy issues. in some ways i think that constitutes "missing".

so i think they have moments of clarity, so to speak. and maybe not even REAL full clarity. but insight into themselves, at least. most of these people have some of that, some more than others. i think plenty of them have moments where they "miss" us, however you want to define that word. long for us in some way. another member once posted about believing that at some point the borderline may be inundated by feelings for, or about us, that have been repressed. the pain resurfacing so to speak. i can really picture that in the case of my recent ex. i think there's a whole lot going on there. i suspect they may have some of the same kinds of dreams we have at some point. whether they try to not to think of us or not, or whether they succeed or not, i don't think they typically "forget us" by any means. think how many reengage, or even stalk. all kinds of things can trigger fond memories they have of us that could cause them to want to connect with us at any time.

but the point that im trying to get to, is that even these moments of clarity aren't sustainable. missing us isn't sustainable. feelings of and for of us aren't sustainable. your ex may well have "come to his senses and missed you" and he may have done it 1000 times. but if so, what has he done about it? it's my general answer to whether or not borderlines love us, or how they love us. sure, maybe they do, maybe they don't, but what is apparent to me is that they can't sustain it.

i read some stories on here recently in a thread about the subject. several stories about BPD partners borrowing articles of clothing when they were going to be separated from their partner for a period of time, and sleeping with them. one even broke up with their partner when the shirt lost its smell. i think that's what my ex was doing with all the stuffed animals i gave her, wearing the clothes i'd leave over, watching my shows when i wasn't there, that kinda thing. i do not think it literally means they FORGET us, or anything, but rather that they have difficulty really conjuring us up. im damn near quoting, and i forget who, but essentially the idea is when normal people are lonely, they can conjure up images and feelings of loved ones and get some warmth from that, so to speak, and remember that they are loved. borderlines can't do this. i don't know if they try and fail, or if they just can't. i think they try and fail, and this frightens them. this, i think, also explains the stories i've read on here about BPDs saying they felt like they should feel bad, or wanting to cry, but feeling nothing, after a break up. i don't think it's every case, and i don't think it's permanent, but i suspect it's a phase most experience. it is also, in my opinion, one of the primary things that causes them to reengage.

do you know anybody you see often, or used to see a lot of, but have trouble picturing their face, for example? i think it's a lot like this, but to a more profound degree. it doesn't mean they forget us.

the absence makes the heart grow fonder/colder thing works both ways. absence absolutely made my exes heart grow fonder, WAY too fond. the second i was gone, the i miss yous started. however, toward the end, when she was lining up the new guy, we'd been "absent" a while. then saw quite a bit of each other for about 2 weeks straight, and she told me she was falling in love with me all over again. then we were snowed in and i didn't see her for another month or so. at first the absence made her heart fond. then it made it cold. then it's like i was completely out of mind. then she became very, very distant, and then the whole thing blew up. again, it works both ways. borderlines are desperate for the attachment to us when separated. but if separated for too long, i suspect, they MUST cling to a new attachment.

Does this mean the forget about us as easy as losing sight of a toy? in some cases, maybe. like if you date a borderline in high school, and they go through lots of relationships, then sure. i do think every case varies. some were more significant to their borderlines than others. you're onto something with the toy analogy. a young child does get distracted and runs to a new toy. sometimes the toy lasts a while. sometimes it's tossed aside quickly. a child may come back to a toy. a child has it's favorite toys. some endure, some do not. some a child keeps coming back to again and again. some a child remembers or even keeps around all of their life. so yeah, i think honestly most of them can experience that at least temporarily. significance of the toy plays a role though. and they don't build em like they build me  *)

Does the mean they don't hurt when we end the relationship? no. not at all. but that doesn't mean they can't find something to temporarily soothe the pain, or dissociate from the pain.

Does this mean they don't miss people? i think they "long" for people, for one reason or another. you might call it missing. my ex told people (all of her attachments) "i miss you" ALL the damn time. in fact it was down right her thing. i guess going back to the toy analogy, does a child "miss" a toy? it certainly longs for it. it recalls fond memories with it. something brings that urge to reconnect with the toy again.

WTH are they feeling if anything after a break up? this completely depends on the person and the circumstances, and whatever given moment one would gauge what they're feeling. it can range from a profound nothing to "a lot". add in a dash of core trauma though to whatever they're feeling or not feeling.

Does this mean that they don't pine over memories? the one thing i wonder and don't know the answer to is how they associate with inanimate objects that remind them of us. they have memories. "pine" over them i think depends again on the person, and how you define it. they can have memories and feelings and long for the memory though, i think.

it's complicated, and honestly it's easier for me to put into words than it is to understand it. i don't lack object constancy, so i can't really know what its like or what it means to not "recall" someone, if they don't forget us, and if they have memories of us.

I wonder this mine walked on me but we talked on the phone every night for hours and saw each other every weekend for 2 and a half years  then he said lets no talk on the phone or see each other a couple weeks I want to see if I miss you . Wel he said he didn't it was like WHATTTTT and thats when it was officially done he moved on and I was totally devasted and left again for good ... .And my replacement was found a few months later like I never existed.Ater 8 years.

So their hearts seem to grow cold very very easily he always claimed he couldn't put himself in my shoes when I asked him to at least try somewhat... .Not an ounce of empathy...

I am convinced that my ex does not think about or miss me in the least. Why would she? I was the reason why she was so unhappy and miserable right? I was the one that emotionally abused her and psychologically scarred her right? Why would you miss someone like that? Lets not forget that when these vipers split with us, they paint us black, tell horrible lies about us to gain sympathy (because we can not forget they are ALWAYS the victim), and more often than not have someone new in their beds before the dust settles.

My ex broke up with me and days later was screwing the neighbor. The reason why absence makes the heart grow colder is because they have moved on to someone new. You mean nothing to them anymore, you have served your purpose, you are past your expiry date, in the garbage you go along with the rest of the trash. In order to miss someone you actually have to have feelings that go beyond yourself. Have you ever noticed that BPD's are so self absorbed? It is all about how they FEEL all the time. What your feelings or needs are, are not as important as their needs and feelings. It will always be that way. Finally we have to remember these people are mentally ill (I prefer evil, but I digress), they don't think like normal people, they don't feel like normal people, they definitely don't see the world like normal people, and unlike normal people have no capacity to love beyond what they can ultimately get out of it. Out of sight, out of mind. That is how it works with these wretches for human beings. I would have more sympathy if they would be willing to seek help, but as this support group proves, most of them don't and we as the TRUE victims have to deal with the fall out and destruction they have left in our lives. They all can go to hell.

It is heartbreaking realizing this especially when you had hoped that they would remember how good you were to them and want to come back. However, I know it is a gift that they don't but it is hurtful. I wonder do you think they forget their children as time goes by? Mine loved his son but since he has left calls less and has not made one attempt to see him in 10 weeks. This was his son that he said was his life. Any thoughts?

Lucky Strikes,

I don't know where I'd be without your responses.    

You really have a way of bringing the humanity back into the equation. Because of our anger, hurt, and pain there's always the temptation to think of our ex's in black/white absolute terms as they do us. When I'm really piping hot angry I want to believe that my ex is nothing but an animal, trash, a lower form of life and a total waste of space. When I'm this angry I don't want to stay there. But quite honestly reading article 8 (object constancy? REALLY? ) sent me reeling into an emotional tailspin. The implications of it all suggest that the experiences I shared with my ex weren't real. (Out of sight out of mind? Really?) When this "idea" hits it feels as if an entire brick wall has been thrown at me.

Your post responses help me to remember that only WE truly know how we've experienced our ex's. And how each of us has experienced our ex's varies. Yes they may not mourn us the way we do them but I'll be damn if my ex doesn't think about me. And I'll be even more damned if my ex doesn't have regrets about how our relationship ended.

I've read testimonies of people who suffer from BPD who say they miss their ex's even when they're the ones that did the breaking up. Yes. This give me shallow validation; but I think its ok to want to experience some kind of respite/lifeline/example to create meaning out/ of this crazy jigsaw puzzle.

Ultimately. When the r/s is over; its over and the five stages of grief must be experienced in order for us to grow from this ordeal. But for me articles like this keep me stuck in the grieving process longer because they read in an entirely black and white way. I just find it hard to believe that people who suffer from BPD don't FEEL feelings of loss. And I find it even more difficult to accept that being painted black means you're forever in their emotional dungeon. Somewhere in there the truth lies dormant but eventually the dragon of truth needs to breath fire.

I don't care how many lies they tell themselves. Absence may make the heart grow colder; but the truth always needs an opportunity to be released.

im with you harlemgurl. when i came here, i read a lot of things that i was so certain weren't true, or disagreed with, or seemed so painful.

i've learned what i've learned since then. some of those things either weren't true, or were at least debateable. some were more true than i realized.

i think when you're hit with those tail spins, it's because you're onto something. part of you wants to scream out "NO! THAT CAN'T BE TRUE!" well, maybe it isn't. since they are all human, and each is different, and we all experienced different circumstances, a LOT of the advice/information you receive is either general, or not may not be applicable to you.

i guess when it comes to learning about this disorder, it helps so much having dealt with borderlines before. it's much easier for me to have a mental picture, and to decide what's applicable. what you mentioned, i want to stress. if you get this disorder at ALL (and i believe you do) then you can usually answer your own questions the best.

it's like i mentioned before. were elements of your relationship "not real"? perhaps. depends on how you look at it and how you define it, i think. on one hand, im not one who thinks i was "duped" by my ex or that i was suffering any delusions or illusions. i knew she was "crazy" and BPD, even though i didn't know it by name, was a devil i knew very well. i would still make the claim that i was closer to her, and knew her better than anyone in her life, and that that was very real. on the other hand, i radically accept that there was clearly a huge part to her that i did not know at all. this is someone i was beyond certain couldn't leave me, and didn't have a cheating bone anywhere in their body. i was left, and i have more than suspicion that there was cheating, perhaps quite a bit. this is a side i clearly was oblivious to. her ability and ultimate willingness to hurt me, i was oblivious to. during, i loved her for her loyalty. i thought this was a person perhaps even more loyal than i. well, i have to accept, to some extent, that was an illusion. basically, im illustrating that it's not black and white. and so neither is it especially painful, if radically accepted, at least for me. there are things about my relationship i've determined for lack of a better word "weren't real". to which i basically respond "well, i thought i had great judgment before. clearly i have more to learn." but i will not let anyone tell me i was living a lie, or that i didn't know my ex, or that our bond "didn't really exist." i know better. i was there. i lived it, and no one can tell me i'm naive to it. it was the most powerful connection i've ever had. yes, i accept that there were elements of mirroring involved in that. i look at it like a body. i cut off what was rotted, or "not real" in my mind, and there's plenty of body left... .what it's worth and what it looks like are questionable. but it's like i mentioned. in all of the bonding, all the intimate details shared, and experiences shared, what about that "wasn't real"? (actually, that's poorly phrased, and could be answered to. i hope you know what i mean.)

i do NOT think "out of sight out of mind" goes so far as to suggest that every time you were out of his sight it was like you didn't exist. im sure quite the contrary, and im sure most members would attest to that. that's usually when BPD is neediest. "out of sight out of mind" is one of those things you kind of have to take and apply to yourself and your situation. for me, like i said, i think it applied while she was lining up the new guy, and occurred (but was interrupted with obsessive behavior directed at me) for as long as she could keep it up after our relationship ended. it would KILL me to accept "out of sight out of mind" in black and white terms. but like i said, my ex demonstrated that even though it appeared to be the case, it clearly wasn't. her actions toward me weren't anything healthy or anything positive, but it showed me that to believe she wasn't thinking about me at all or had forgotten me WAS an illusion. i read that in terms of moving on, something like 2-4 weeks out can be like 6-8 for them, or something like that. well sure. but you have hundreds of examples of the ones that stick around for years. there are a lot of stories on here, unfortunately, that i think the most painful aspects probably apply to. being under illusions. the relationship having essentially not been "real" (or less of it having been). not really ever knowing who their BPD partner was. and being discarded, forgotten, and never really thought of again. but these really appear to be the shorter term relationships where the person just has absolutely no grasp of what they've been through. like i said, i think you're smart enough to know for yourself. i think "out of sight out of mind" can also apply to things like cheating behavior. in other words, if you're out of sight, they need something to cling to. they're able to put you out of mind, beCAUSE you are out of sight, and engage in cheating or something of the like, not without experiencing shame, but perhaps without really feeling it. or they can convince themselves you deserve it. all sorts of things.

it is okay to want to do all of those various slashes out of the crazy jigsaw puzzle, or at least schwing told me so :) the analogy he gave me is that it's like a movie like the sixth sense. you see all the red flags but you miss them. then BOOM the big ending and you're kinda like "what just happened?" so you rewatch it to make sense of it all, and you see the red flags. and then maybe you rewatch it 20 times, because you've just GOT to make sense of it. i can't count how many times i did that. i still do to some extent. sure there comes a point when it's unhealthy obsession, that you should focus on you, etc, but your mind needs to process and make sense of it all first. you can take as long as you need, and as im sure you've experienced, it wont all come at once. but it is healthy. i just loved that analogy and that validation. again, i assume the reason you hit a tailspin is because you were hearing something that your mind wanted to scream wasn't true. and i think whenever that's the case, it's because it may not be entirely, or may not be true to you. you know better. there are hard truths, and then there are... .well, "not necessarily truths". we react violently to those. it's like if someone tells me there is no god. that's threatening and contrary to everything i know.

i get why this keeps you stuck, but i don't think it should. honestly, anything i've learned about borderline, has not been especially painful for me, if anything it gives me a much better mental picture, and it doesn't tend to challenge any of my core beliefs. i like the articles because they help with that mental picture, but again, it's about taking whats applicable, coming from a very generalized article, and applying it to you. first of all, there is ALWAYS a less painful way to spin and see things, ways to change troubling thoughts that get you stuck. those things are good to practice. that's why i say "i don't think it should", not because there's something wrong with you. because it's not reality. because either you're being threatened by black and white thinking, or seeing something more painfully than it need be seen.

i wouldn't be caught dead saying borderlines don't feel feelings of loss. way, way too much evidence to the contrary. is it true for some of them, in some cases? sure, maybe. i mean again, we ALL had different relationships. some of them WERE more significant than others. there are people who meant very little to their borderline. i don't think that's the case for most people here, or we wouldn't be here. i was with (and beyond there for) my ex when her grandfather passed. that's not suddenly vanished in her mind, whether she's painted me black or not. that fact does not lose significance to her. she's not going to forget it. again, they are human beings. i've seen nothing that suggests that black paint lasts forever. they paint us both back and forth during the relationship. they can do the same after. and from most of what i've read, black usually wipes off over time. i've seen one case of a more witchy type who yeah, tried to make her ex husbands life a living hell for about two decades. it all depends.

people with BPD have magnificent defense and coping mechanisms, but they still have psyches and they still have pain. you're very right about the dragon of truth, and i believe that fire does breathe. pain surfaces for them in all sorts of ways, whether it's immediate, soon, or takes years.

i do frankly envy your anger though, harlemgurl. not because i want to be an angry person, or risk getting stuck in it, but it has truly been lacking in my process, and it troubles me, because i for the life of me can't figure out why. righteous anger should be felt, and mine is suspiciously MIA.

I was getting hung up on this, this weekend thinking that, he was probably thinking about me because I was thinking of him

When I have those moments when she seems so important or like it was just yesterday and I miss her, I kind of feel like Forrest Gump, waiting for his Jenaaaa. Will I always long for her and possibly take her in when ever she walks back in no matter what she does or who she is with? I think about Forrest who never judged her or thought ill of her, I am not there yet, but when I am focused on the mental illness of it I can see that light at the end of the tunnel.

Sea,

     what an analogy of "Forrest waiting for his Jenna " that was my fantasy so to speak for so long before I knew anything about PD's. That he would see all the hurt and pain inflicted on me over the years. Thats all I wanted was a truly deep heartfelt apology and a sincere " I really do Love you and miss you will you give me another chance" and that was "my fantasy".

I cried every night in the wee hours of the morning,prayed,bargained,dreamed,name it I researched it all the wrong places ,how I wish I researched Personality disorders first it would have saved me over 5 years of anguish,depression,self blame,self hate,guilt,what if's,wasted time you name it .

Over 5 years I am still married and seperated from him and he has been with someone else almost 3 of them.  I thought he would realize the grass was the same not greener or was going through a midlife crisis whatever, what a fool I have been.

"My Fantasy" dashed a few months before finding out about BPD this year in March .

We met to split tax return money got to discussing our relationship demise and I said (as always )I admit to 50% of it .He flat out said "I did nothing wrong" and I commented you won't even say you contributed to 50,40,30 or even 10% and he still firmly stated again "I did nothing wrong at all" .

That was the first time in all these years I actually got mad outwardly to him and said I can't believe you said that after all this time, we argued some and I left.

He then called me about 4 hours later like we hadn't talked in weeks and said "Hi I just wanted to let you know you gave me $20 to much on the tax return and not a word about earlier. I was like in my head ? what is he up to he was so mad before its like old times when we lived together,get raging mad over something for hours and upset me or the kids then forget it the next day and the same thing doesn't effect him the same way twice.

Wow that is so sad, that's the mentally ill part, they would rather be treated badly by someone who is less smart or beautiful or just be with anyone than anything that has a connection, or expectation, being attached hurts them. Thank God Forrest was MR, because he missed out on all of this pain, and craziness. Sea  I am so glad you found out about PD and hopefully can let go of some of the responsibility and personalizing any of this, he is the same way with whomever he is with now,

Exactly Sea as you say about Forrest being MR and unaware so not feeling the pain.

Many times in my life I have quoted the saying "ignorance is bliss" sometimes I have wished my intelligence was below normal verses above. Then I wouldn't feel or be aware of some of the cruelty and misgivings that are apparent in this world.

I have to admit my insight and intuition is usually very good but this one got me when least expected.

If it were a friend or relative I would have been the pit bull fighting for them and helping them every which way possible. But myself I was fooled like a poor animal lead to slaughter not knowing. What hurts more is I feel like I should have seen it somehow.I'm not stupid but reading about idealize,devalue and discard makes everything fall in place . It at least gave me my ahhaa moment finally. My quest has started . Let my learning and hopeful healing journy begin.

Now to find some of the scattered pieces of me that has been forever changed and hoping it won't many years .

This was one of THE hardest, but necessary things for me to accept. She does not miss me. Period. I served my purpose.

This one was the most saddening to read. Belief that absence from me would make her see what we had and appreciate it, was my last real hope.

It is useful to know that reconciliation is just not going to happen, yet saddening. Time to move on with life.

To understand a BPD you must see her/him as a child with adult means at her/his disposal. Think about it. A 7 y.o. child with a gun, for example. Unfortunately, she/he is not a normal child. Her/his parents are not an example of comunication and perhaps they dont even tell her/his about what the gun means and what can he/she do with it.

Anyway, a BPD always looks for validation exactly the way as children do, with difference they (BPD) have a lot of means of their disposal, means which normal children do not have, as sexuality, agresivity etc. At some point maybe they look after for unconditional love as we did as children but after we've obtained it from our parents and we've grown up, we just have leave left them and seeking a start for a life as adults. We make a lot of mistakes as adults and sometimes we come back to our parents to be healed, to feel that unconditional love again, to be understood or to be protected as well. After we are healed or helped we just move on again in real life as adults, wich means we leave our parents again for searching a good life as independent persons. BPDs do the same but when they look for a partner they want that partner behaves like a parent, giving them unconditional love. After they feel it, they follow the pattern and leave. In r/s they dont feel love as we do. They love us in a childish way. All children lie and hide. BPDs have also sexuality at their disposal but they simply dont know what to do with it. They use it as a tool, as we've used crying or something when we're children. BPDs dont feel sexual pleasure as we do. For them is like a hug or something like that.

We all miss our parents sometimes and we call them or just visit them. For BPDs there is no such posibility because their natural parents seem to be unavailabe to comunicate unconditional love to them. So, BPDs usualy try to return to the most important persons from their life to obtain that unconditional love. It's like charging batteries. We do it the same when we are young adults. Their affection is always childish.  Think of it: as adults we dont call our parents daily. When we are "on the wave" we just simply forget them sometimes but when we have problems and thoughts we return to them. BPD do the same but they dont understand we are not their parents and we have different lifes. Sometimes they crave for our love to charge their batteries. After that, they simply leave.

Yes, the belief that absence makes the heart grow colder is not true. They always miss their important ex partners as we miss our parents sometimes. My exBPDgf told me  long time after brake-up, crying "please, I have one last request for you. Dont die".

This gave me an AHA! moment.  I've always had a problem with thinking that it's "out of sight, out of mind" because, if that's the case, why do they then stalk us and refuse to go away even after months.

This made it all very clear.  Just like he couldn't sustain feelings of love for me, or despising me, or mood stability, or happiness, or or or, neither can he sustain the "out of sight"

What a horrible way to live - on this rollercoaster or pendulum of swaying feelings and emotions.  I actually feel really sorry for him - but not enough to go back, break NC or do anything.

Got to admit - I feel for myself more.  NEVER going back there!

Gosh, me too. I always wondered why it was that my ex couldn't finish anything, couldn't stick to university, couldn't stick to a job, didn't stick to an expensive hypnotherapy course and then ultimately couldn't stick with me.

She knew it too. She blamed me in an email "you might think I'm a dreamer who never finishes anything" I never suggested anything of the sort but I was there to blame... And so the cycle continues.

The belief that the absence makes the heart grow fonder or colder as the case may be rocked me to the core.

I thought how could someone want to be with me 24x7 and then when I am gone he found it hard to connect. When I was gone I would think about him all the time.

Then I thought back to my typical workday. I would receive upwards of 6 emails and a phone call every lunchtime to just say "Hi" and he insisted on picking me up from work even though it was inconvenient for us both. If this is the way the rs was to operate on so we feel connected ~ I don't want it.

Towards the end of my relationship I wanted to spend more time with family and friends solo. I also felt I was disconnecting and relished the thought of hoping on the train each workday to do nothing but listen to my music and exhale.

Has absence made the heart grow colder for me? Yes! I placed it all into perspective and see my role and what I need to work on. I thank him for it and I thank me for finding me again.

Good for me to remember with the holidays. I could barely move last year, could barely clean my apartment much less decorate for the holidays... .this year I am happy and festive, but have been having sentimental feelings about the ex, her family, etc. Found all her Christmas ornaments I gave her but never sorted out because when she moved for a job I didnt know our relationship was dissolving. I love ornaments, and they meant something to me and I had fantasies of dropping them off at her sister in law's house, etc.

Good to remember that we are out of sight, out of mind. Because she would probably look at those ornaments and turn her nose up in disdain. OUCH!

I never bought into this "belief."

In fact, I could "re-set" my BPD friend by going away. She would continue to "gnat" me while we were apart for months, and then when I stupidly re-engaged, it was honeymoon again for 3 months, then nonsense. Then repeat the above.

In my case, I just don't believe this belief. I think leaving triggers their abandonment fears. That they don't forget you, that they forget they hated you. Until they remember.

Me too.  I could always "reset" him by ignoring his sulks.  If he detached, I detached more (towards the end).  Two weeks later he's back, texting, how much he misses me, can we talk, honeymoon again etc etc until the next little thing set him off.

Here's the way I think they work -

I think they hate you, then they forget they hate you.  Then they love you, then (once triggered) they forget they love you, then they hate you - and round and round it goes!

The rest of us (i.e. nons) can get annoyed (and sometimes really annoyed) but we don't hate our partners.  They just p*** us off for a while.  The clue to the normality would be, if something bad happened to them in the middle of this, wouldn't you forget it all and rush to be by their side, to help, to soothe, to nurture.

But they don't.  If something happens to you while they're in the "hate" phase, they continue to ignore you - to punish even more.  Or, in my experience, to punish you because whatever tragedy happened happened.

It's absolute madness!  And none of us caring, sharing people deserve it!

From you description of how you were effected on the surface, I can see your point.

Digging into the layers, the absence likely had acting out episodes you are not aware of - and lucky for you, you don't know about them.

Your distance/absence does cause dysregulation as seen in the renewed honeymoon "idealization" phase you mention.  This is like when you see a 3 year old family member.  You may be playing at the park for an hour and then 3 weeks later, it is like meeting again, but quickly the child bonds and you are now a favorite toy.

I came to the realization that being close or far did not matter.   "out of sight out of mind" and "familiarity breeds contempt" both seemed to apply.  The ever shifting shoals of abandonment-engulfment fears are too complicated (or too draining) to navigate. 

I have to focus on doing the right thing and being a good person, not on triggers. 

The one constant trigger I see is when things are going too well for too long.  The kids are well behaved, we are having fun outings, the house is clean, etc.  This has never lasted more than a week in my memory.  Just recently we got 4 days, but then drama and manufactured conflict.  There is no stopping it.  Agreeing to the BPD's new demand does nothing.  When the drama ends, the snide comments and sullen sulking begins.

Amen to this.  Mine could only ever do a week.  Even when it seemed Utopia, he'd start to dish out the snide comments and the sullen sulking.  Used to drive me nuts trying to figure out the cause each time - and, of course, he'd never tell me.  Just smirk and tell me it was me.

Weird thing is that, for a long time, I believed that it must be.  Never had any evidence but  I figured that I'd done something.  Now I know that it wouldn't have mattered what I did or didn't do, the fact that it was a day ending in "y" meant that there was a chance he'd start it all again.

I believed that absence made my exBPDgf realize her mistake.  She always gave me this sad eyes and made sure to be in my line of site.  After 20 years of not speaking, I finally broke and mailed her a letter.  I felt totally complete in my life after we started speaking again.  She had apologized for all of the wrong things she did to me and us and said that she had always wanted us to remain in each other's lives.  I ignored red flags in her emails and letters-she really wasn't being accountable-just saying words... .but never the less we were young when she acted out and crazy so I just forgave.  It took 3 months for the same pattern to repeat as it had 20 years earlier-no absence didn't teach her anything. 

I wonder though... .does she drive by so that she doesn't forget or so that has someone to think about and not grow cold?  They fear absence so much from our lives even though they push us away... .but at the same time, even though we don't speak, I feel like she is a part of my life and me hers ONLY b/c she never stops looking at me or being around me.  It's a dance.  I wish I could make it stop and I've been NC and tried just acting like I would with a stranger.  It's been 23 years now and she's still there... .still looking.

23 years? F me. Even wars don't last that long. My gawd what did we all get ourselves in to?

SB,

I found that withrawing behaviour, tough love, sleeping in the spare room, distancing, coming home late from work because I did not want to face being raged at. All thess things she found invlaidating. In additintion I had stoped providing for her needs.

I wanted her to realise what she was missing out on. She just went to look for someone new. I was devalued and rejected.

Great thread.  |iiii

Actually this i do feel that absence makes the heart grow fonder. But in a normal relationship though. Not in a relationship with mental illness

pwBPD tend to objectify the person to whom they have formed an attachment. bwBPD also tend to live very much in the present.

If the object of their attachment is not present this can be a trigger for feeling of abandonment, emptiness and may lead that peson to for an attachment with another if the situation presents itself.

My uBPDw suddenly became less dependent on me and able to cope without me. This I could not understand until I found out that they had a new bf in their life. Then it all begins to make sense.

MJJ

What Anra wrote above rings true for me. My exBPDgf loves, and experiences sex, in a childish way. And she definitely put me in the role of a parent who should always be there for her after she goes out to find new partners.

At the beginning of our rs, on the first night we kissed four years ago, she told me she is weak in relationships, doesn't fall in love or get attached. Within a few months she was clinging to me like a vine, and within a year she was telling me all the time that she loved me. But when we fought she would tell me she could forget me immediately by having sex with somebody else. She also warned me that if she moves away I shouldn't expect to hear from her because she forgets about people. On the other hand she often told me that I will be a part of her forever. When we were broken up two years ago for seven months she acted like she had lost all feeling for me. Then after we got back together she told me she thought about me constantly during the breakup. I know she likes to stay in touch with all her exes, and she says she has stayed friends with all of them. (She also gets upset when she hears that any of them have gotten married; "that's not okay," she says.) I think that in the chaos of her mind, with thoughts and feelings racing constantly, memories and feelings for people come and go, and she just tries to bend everything to keep refilling her void, without any feeling of loyalty.

This concept is so devastating to grasp. My H and I use to live away and occasionally I would fly home to see my sister. Before I would leave he would cry and be so upset about me going, hugging and kissing me and wanting to be close. But when I was gone he would barely call and when I would call he would watch tv and not want to even talk, if he even bothered to answer. It was like 2 different men. I have just started to understand BPD and in hindsight I see now why when I wasn't around it was like he didn't even love me.

I can't even seem to be upset or set boundaries because if I am "normal" and feel guarded from the rage episodes like any body would, to him I am distant which gives me more of the same coldness and hate. I am just realizing I am in a no win situation and I cannot not possibly stay because I would have to give up my own rights to feelings I deserve just so he doesn't feel abandoned, meanwhile I am the one who actually has been tossed away emotionally.

It hurts so much to think I have loved and cared for someone who can just literally forget I exist, he looks at me like I am a stranger and cannot grasp how intensely painful that is. And at the same time I envy him so very much because I would give anything right now to have this dysfunction to make moving forward easier.

Objectifying is a complex issue. This article is a little technical but otherwise excellent and help explains the different BPD behaviours when a the non is present and absent (either physically and or emotionally) in a BPD r/s.

It is worth reading through over and over.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=147008.0

Maybe someone here can help me.I beat myself up everyday about this.8 months ago i needed to get to a safe place.So i moved out.We were far apart from each other.We talked everyday on the phone and all seemed well.We picked this home i am in know to buy and remodel.

So i have been killing myself to make all this happen.We only seen each other a few times in these months.I did think if i stayed away she would see what a good guy i am.She would see that she will lose a good thing.I was hoping this ''space'' would heal us and most of all have her see what the hell her actions and behaviors were doing.

So 2 weeks ago everything seemed fine.We laughed and talked.We talked about this home and when she may be moving to live again as a couple.So one night at 5 pm i told her i was going to take a ride on the Motorcycle.I assured her i would be right back.

I was met out of the blue with hate texts.

She said go f---k your new woman there.I hope you have ''fun'' on your new bike.You never loved me.I hate you,you are a no good rotton cheating SOB.

This hit me hard.I tryed to call back and have not heard another word from her since.Now she has turned off her cell phone.

Did i do SOMETHING WRONG BY TRYING TO BUILD THIS HOME AND FUTURE.WHAT DID I DO.

Can someone shine light on this.

That old fashioned romantic saying "absence makes the heart grow fonder" would seems like a relatively normal thing in a relatively normal relationship.  The time away at work or when apart would generate a longing missing someone.

Not with someone with BPD.  The lack of object consistency (like when you take a toy away from a small child they protest for a minute then when out sight they forget about the toy and the fun it was) and the abandonment fears can cause someone to behave in ways that are completely contradictory to being in a relationship.  If youre absent you run the chance of being nonexistent or abandoning.

This has been a complicated part of the process to understand. When she raged/needed distance, she'd leave and go stay with a friend. Raged more on the phone and via emails while there. If I approached her to work things out, she'd say I was being too pushy, needy, etc. If I stepped back to give her space, she'd say that proved I didn't care and she was right to leave. I do believe she missed me while gone, as much as she was able to at the time, but had some strange ways of showing it. When she'd come back, there were never any apologies for her behavior, for having hurt my feelings or wasted time or anything. Sometimes when she was gone I wished she was missing me more, that by being away she'd see how much I did love her and really was there for her, that she didn't even have to leave in the first place. As with so many other aspects of BPD, it seems absence makes their hearts grow both fonder and colder, to the extremes. With the fluctuations involved, you just never know which one you're gonna get. Sad thing is, it helps turn our warm hearts colder along the way.

If you recognize that the attachment is based on feelings associated with fantasy - the idea that the non is "going to" be the solution to the ills of the BPD, it follows that it's the white part of B&W thinking. It's shallow, it's not from the depths of who they are, because they don't know who they are... .the entire r/s, while intense, comes from a very shallow place - a very fragile place which requires conditions implicit in fantasy.

The heart grows colder because it was never real in the first place - to the degree it was a shallow attachment (not from the depths of who they are), it's easy to let go of once its usefulness has expired. THis seems to be the N side of BPD.

This has been the most difficult aspect of BPD for me to deal with, but also the aspect that has given me the most answers. My ex and I worked together, lived together, were rarely ever apart, and it was not a burden in and of itself. I remember right from the beginning we were together daily and it didn't bother me, I thought we were best friends.

When we made the decision to move to a new city, and I felt it best for him to go before me (for a variety of practical reasons anyone would agree with) he threw a fit. Once I got him to understand it would be easier/smarter/cheaper for him to go stay temporarily and me to follow, he wanted a (short) timeframe locked in for when I would arrive. It took about a week for him to start bugging me on progress. He called me every day, sometimes twice a day. All this I thought was again, because he genuinely wanted to be with me, talk with me daily--best friends.

Wrong. I see now it was just about supply and keeping me (the object) present. It came to an end when one week he finally met some new friends, got invited out a couple times, and decided he had a new supply. He went from 2x daily calls and telling me how much I meant to him and he loved me to less than 24 hours later (after going out) he didn't love me and it was over.

Absence did nothing but make him need a new object to quell his anxiety. It hurts terribly to realize all along it was not "me" he wanted to daily but what I did for him... .It also helps a lot with that pain to understand his extreme behavior--you can't miss someone you only see as an immediate means to an end. While I was pining for him more and more, in his mind I was fading further away.

Living halfway across the world from my exBPDh now, but during the 11 years we were married we had a number of separations. Recalling meetings at airports, I always felt there was something vital lacking; even after a year apart at times. My heart would be flying with anticipation and excitement at seeing him again as I tried again to patch up the marriage, but he was so restrained. At departures, he would deliver me to the airport and turn away, walking quickly and never looking back. It truly did feel like out of sight (out of his control) out of mind.

Very interesting thread, and heartbreaking belief!  One thing that confuses me a bit: I often hear about the attachment of pwBPD being shallow, but desire/need seemed so intense and the intensity made me think the attachment to each other was deep.   I would think that a shallow attachment would feel superficial and not so intense?  ? 

Is it shallow because the attaching is coming from an empty/needy place?  Like a big hole to fill (which can't be done).  Whereas a healthy attachment comes from a safer, more "whole" place in both people and is therefore "deeper?" 

Would love to hear your insights.  Thank you for bumping this thread. It's a hard but necessary lesson.

I am not sure that I have read anything in the facts or criteria about the pwBPD attachment being shallow.  Actually, it is only with very significant relationships that the "fear of abandonment" can show itself.

I think where nons get confused is because for us it feels like there was not significant depth "how could she just leave me, etc" - that is our wrong assumption of not understanding the facts of the disorder. 

Does this clarify a bit?

Hi seekingbalance,

Thanks for helping me out here  :)   So, are you saying that we *mistakenly* believe that the attachment was superficial (or shallow) because they "forget" about us and seem to let go/replace us so easily?  And that the attachment was possibly real/deep?

I wonder why I'm asking this question.  I think it makes me feel better to think that even though there is a sudden breakup with quick moving on on pwBPD's part, it doesn't mean that the entire r/s was a fantasy with no real attachment.  Because I felt a deep connection with him.  That is real, that is my experience, if not his.  I guess I want to trust my own feelings.

Thanks for your help!

Without a deep attachment, they would not be triggered for such an extreme reaction... .it was real, you both just handle this attachment differently. 


The relationship was not a fantasy - it was real... .the emotions were very real for you both.

We nons bring a host of false beliefs to the table because we truly do not understand the nature of BPD.  BPD at the root is a fear of abandonment - unless you value something, you don't fear the abandonment.  Many times we see stories on these boards (myself included) where the disorder shows itself fully only after marriage or moving in together, because that act triggers the fear - does this mean the emotions are shallow - no, quite the opposite.

Your feelings were real - feelings are not facts... .the facts are that if your ex is BPD, his emotional responses will very likely not match his feelings when triggered - this is where we find the maladaptive coping methods.

good questions

The feelings and needs are very deep, indeed, and the impulses to escape them become overwhelming. A pwBPD's system is ready to launch at all times, and to us that may seem 'shallow' and on the surface but it comes from way down in the roots. We may cling and do whatever we can to save the relationship, but to pwBPD, hanging on triggers their core hurts and they just can't have that. It could lead to the whole house of cards coming down, while looking in the mirror of their true self. I don't think this shows they have a cold heart. Perhaps it's running at such a high temperature that the pwBPD can't hold onto it for very long, sensing that they're being burned. The love and closeness, proof of friendship and trust, add fuel to that fire.

The illness draws the one who has it towards the very things that set the illness off and make it worse. This isn't like someone who has cancer but keeps on smoking anyway, by choice. This is someone who continues to be ill and can not help themselves from doing what makes them more ill. Thinking that if they try again (and try they must) they will somehow find a way out of the illness. With the addition of causing those they come in contact with, who may all along be working on offering assistance for the sickness, to also become deeply scarred from it. It's not contagious in that we don't become BPD from encountering it. It does seem to transfer certain symptoms and other side effects, some of which we bring upon ourselves, which we then have to face and heal from. We're fortunate that through our own efforts we will be able to attain a healthier life. Our connections with the pwBPD were real, just not what they truly need to save them from this illness. It's like hugging somone who is on fire, thinking it will help put out the flames. Their illness keeps them blazing, and our hugs add to their pains. They need to stop, drop, and roll, though, on their own. We all do.

It's not shallow like a paper cut which hurts a short while and goes away. There is something that's been severed, deep inside, and the way to get in there where the real wounds are is blocked by walls of pain, the path frequently changing. When the person with the illness can't even admit their symptoms, let alone reach out for real help, it's that much harder to heal from it. So the patterns mostly continue. None of this is very shallow. It's about as deep as many of us will ever go, the pwBPD included.

Yeah, this is a devastating reality.  I SO DEARLY LOVE and miss my ex.  I keep hoping she'll reach out to me but by now, she probably doesn't even think of me after a month after our breakup.  As for me, she's all I can think about.  And this is not an obsessive love kind of thing.  I sincerely love this girl with all of my heart.

I just don't understand how I can be such a "nothing" to her, but I could never understand a lot of her behavior.  I don't understand why she would try to throw me away like trash all the time.  I don't understand why she was so cold sometimes.  I don't understand why she would smear me to colleagues. 

I've messed up a lot and I acknowledge that.  I guess I didn't have a full understanding of the condition then, so I acted like a child sometimes too.  I would do anything to have those moments back to change them.  But I don't understand how someone who is SO IMPORTANT to us could so easily throw us away.  Neurological reactions or abandonment fears from childhood may explain why, but they can't absolve the hurt that many of us feel but losing our spouses.

Seekingbalance, THANK YOU.  Really, really helpful and healing for me.

Myself, you express it so well, and you read my mind because I was just thinking today that maybe I had picked up BPD traits.  I know it only seems that way during the healing process.



jp, I hear you.  For so long I was hoping he'd reach out to me, miss me, want me back.  Now I have to take care of myself and heal.  That's what I'm left with.  I told my T the other day that "this is what it took for me to look more deeply at my issues."  A really tough lesson, but also a opportunity.

I guess so.

I wish she could understand how much I love her, though.  I would have been with her to the very end of my days - and I would have wanted to be there.  Or maybe that's just not enough.  Look, I could be completely fooling myself, but I have a strong impression that she wants nothing to do with me (and her prior spouses) because she was abandoned by her father.  She doesn't seem to have a clue about how much this has affected her emotionally and her relationships in general.  She constantly put up walls and protective barriers to avoid this, but she could never process why.  And what's worse, is she always wanted to avoid the topic even when it was raised.  It's scary to face your demons, but you can't find happiness if you try to hide them. 

Anyway, I'm rambling.  Sorry!   

this is the single biggest issue keeping me stuck!

my exBPD interpreted a signal i gave (for space) as complete abandonment.

Called me a lot over the coming weeks but steeled himself and communication became less frequent. And then suddenly he was onto my replacement (all of this within 3 weeks) and any contact from me was seen as an annoyance - and he went to great lengths to point that out. All sighs, harumphs, rudeness over the phone. And when I finally got some face time, he was distant, aloof, not present. Until finally he stopped picking up the phone all together and dished up the silent treatment.

The speed with which he moved on was beyond comprehension.

I have been NC most of this year, but I still crash and burn sometimes and yearn for an explanation. I have never really been sure of what I was chasing, but I know now that I am looking for decency, communication, signs of the person I thought he was.

But apparently our 2 years together meant absolutely nothing to him. He has 'emotionally murdered" me... .as the reading describes the silent treatment. I never happened.

And as much as I have addressed my co-dependent tendencies and poor boundaries, I still can't get my head around how cruel he has been with all of this.

Just didn't need to end this way.

We do become the whipping boy for all of the hurt their parents caused them. When the relationship hits a certain stage and the false self is exposed, the gloves come off and they are hell bent on treating you with all the rage and anger they would have loved to show their original abuser.

I am so far down the healing path now, but really want this pull to stop... .the desire for confirmation of the illness, confirmation that I meant something, confirmation that he has even thought about me in all this time.

Sadly, I realise all of that is very unlikely

BB12

So sad bb. I'm really sorry to hear what you went through. The last night I saw her, she had this very cold, distant look on her face. Like she didn't want to be around me or that she was hiding something. At that point, I think I was completely devalued. I was an annoyance. She had no concern or love for me (or at least it seemed that way.). It was like having a stranger in my place. So uncomfortable... .

I'm not sure there is a good explanation for us that can bring us peace.  Their behavior is likely due to the function of their brain. Based on MRI results, the brains of pwBPD do not process emotions “normally" vs the bulk of the population.  This explanation does us no good on a personal level because we are deeply hurt by their behavior.  However, it sometimes helps me realize that her behavior isn't necessarily who she WANTED to be, it's just her brain wasn't processing emotion on a normal level. 

My ex was also a meth addict for 1+ years in high school, which also damages the same part of the brain that processes emotion.  So this was a “double whammy." 

I like how you used the term “emotionally murdered."  I felt that way many times too and feel that way now. I am wishing you good thoughts.

Too bad we're suffering from the consequences of their parents.  It's a shame that they don't have the wherewithal to delineate people who hurt them vs. people who love and want to help them.

Yep - absolutely. We are still largely in 'helping' or 'giving' mode when we are dumped, so it makes it harder to comprehend. We have locked in to helping this person and are still largely 'in love' when the discard happens. Instead of both being at the "I'm done" stage, where we agree it's time to let the r/s go, we are nowhere near this feeling so our journey to recovery starts from a place way further up the line. We have to fall out of love with them to get to a place anywhere near being able to process the brutal end.

But the real question is why we were so committed to someone who was treating us quite poorly all along: someone who gave so little. Did we really value ourselves so poorly that we committed to staying and helping despite the scraps we were getting?

BB12

Well, for me, it was a few things.  First of all, I was able to see her good side. She could be immensely sweet. Second, she kept saying she would go to therapy. Third, I wanted to see the best in her and wanted to believe that she could be a great person.

It's not so much that I had this interest in finding someone who was emotionally unavailable. I am certainly aware that I have some codependent tendencies but I honestly believe that I was in a position to start and maintain a healthy relationship when I entered the last one. I had been in therapy for years and spend so much of my time trying to become a balanced, healthy person, even though I certainly have many shortcomings.  But I liked myself, felt I deserved love, was capable of being loving, supportive, and affectionate, and was willing to express what I needed in a relationship.  I had a good sense of who I was as a person. But I lost some of that in this relationship - no doubt about it.

I think I really just wanted a relationship to work out. I really want to start a life with someone and enjoy life.

Or maybe I'm COMPLETELY in denial!     

What are some of the reasons that you think you got in this kind of a relationship?

Yep I have some lonely child / fixit tendencies but I've tried to keep them at bay (for the most part) in the relationship.

I've become aware of these impulses over the past few years and how to deal with these tendencies. I'm not perfect, of course, and sometimes I have to catch myself.

But therapy has helped.

Abandoned children (the BPD) are really hard to deal with and reach. The therapy is very hard and that's even if they get there because most are inclined to refuse and deny the need for help.

Here's a lonely child hug! C  

bb,

This is a great topic, although off track on this thread.

It would be fantastic on taking inventory... .would you mind starting a thread on it?  Many senior members will likely weigh in and we have not seen this topic in a while over there.

Thanks!

SB

Thanks SB

Have moved it and started a thread on Inventory Board

BB12

|iiii

Thanks for bumping this one up today GM.    Really helpful for some of my thoughts today... .  

Just wondered if anyone has any thoughts on my current situation and this subject?

Basically splif from my BPDgf about 6 weeks ago now but we have a young child who i see twice a week and every other wknd. So there is still plenty of regular contact which makes it so hard for me to get her out of my head but these forums help me so much!

I know that she contacted a few of her exes 2 days after wanting to run away and marry me and has been messaging various guys since!

Do you think the lack of absence and regular contact will make her grow fonder of me again?

I don't want this as I know i need to stay away from her emotionally!

Originally she hated me and would rage for first few weeks everytime i made contact but has since started being overly nice, very civil often dressed very provocatively when i pick up my daughter but hasnt made any advances yet! also i get more and more texts which i generally ignore.

Saying all this I'm still certain that she is lining up her next man if not already!

I just wondered if any of you also had any ideas as to what may happen short and long term as I unfortunately will be in contact for many many years to come!

Thanks for any comments or advice!

You know how us "rescuers" find it hard to turn down a pleading BPD ex when they want to get back into our life? I know that feeling like they moved on quickly may hurt. Of course, we hope they remember how good we were to them.  But I balance that against the anguish of saying "no" to her if she asked for a reconciliation. And my mental, physical emotional, and spiritual health depends on my moving on. I'd rather know that she has found a replacement and is not wallowing in any grief.

I'm not sure this concept holds up for my ex... .  maybe the "heart grows colder" portion.  I definitely think my ex has a lot of Avoidant in him as well.   When we dated, my ex was gone for 2 weeks on vacation.  When he came back, we went back to my house and he kept repeating that he felt like he hadn't been there forever (which struck me as kind of odd).  It had only been a couple of weeks.  When we broke up, he avoided me like crazy.  It's kind of understandable... .  it's what newly-broken up people do. 

Now, we've been separated for a year, absolute NC for 4 months and he's still avoiding me like crazy... I've said in other posts, he changed gyms, grocery stores, hangouts.  He's always invited to mutual friends' parties and never shows up.  He stopped playing all sports that we used to play together. 

I feel like if he had truly moved on, he would be able to see me and not feel anything.  Or maybe he hates me so much, he can't stand to be near me?  It's weird, because his closest friends (who used to be my friends too) seem to avoid me as well... .  possibly due to smearing?  Or he simply can't stand to see me, because it would evoke emotions that he can't deal with.  I'm still not sure. 

I have never said "no" but almost did the last time.

Where she gets me is after a couple of months I am closer to moving on she initiates contact and wants to get back together or have sex.

This last breakup I told her I was no longer attracted to her and just want to be friends. Right now we are n/c.

On the surface it would seem like this rule does not apply to my BPDgf r/s... .  she get's lonely, misses me or needs something and then comes back. Usually it takes her at least 1-2 months to get to that point and after trying out other guys (none of which will put up with her).

Yesterday the T asked me "what if she doesn't contact you again?"

I did not really have an answer.

Oh noo.  This is a good topic for a thread.  It may help to talk it out and prep with others.

I'm 100% sure my ex will never contact me again.  He has plenty of sources to depend on in his current living situation and he can't even stand being in the same room as me.  He has never reached out since the day he broke up with me.  Sometimes I want him too... .  just to apologize or acknowledge that we did happen, but the rational part of me says that would be horrible.  It would just set me back and pull me into that toxic pattern again. 

This thread is very powerful and insightful, I appreciate all your contributions because I had a largely Long Distance Relationship and have had to wonder these questions over and over again, especially after she broke up with me.

Ok all, here is my issue that keeps me in the fog. I was apart from my diagnosed girlfriend for 2.5 years! We have a child which I never met until our last recycle in April of this year. What jacks me all up, when we reconciled she told me that she missed me every day. She has never dated or been with anyone except me since we met in 2010. She said she always knew we would be together in the end. If I had not stopped contacting her back in 2010/2011 we would have never been apart. Does anyone else see how completely confusing this is? She has now went NC again for the most part. I still have VERY limited contact as I now have rights to my daughter. I need to hear the rational side to this.

If I could just read this post every time I get the urge to break NC I would be ok.  Thank you

It's a great observation of the situation.

I was severely traumatized in my relationship. In the end she started a relationship with someone else while still living with me (5 yrs.)... . he became the hero, me the villian, but I had no idea WHAT was going on... . or why there was this abrupt change as I was just being lied to and manipulated by an extremely sick person. Expert. Hope you have kept up the NC.  It is not easy. After 11 yrs. I am still twisted up inside over that.  I loved the person so much, but hate them so much all at the same time.  No one should have to survive that inner horror.  I can see now that that person is very ill... . and try to have some empathy, but in the end I need to take care of me (that statement took lots of therapy! LOL). Therefore, I just can't afford to have any interaction with the BPD. NONE. Even after all this time. She attempted an "ambush" on me in a parking lot on recently. I TOTALLY avoided her "assault", and took care of me. it wasn't easy. It is a matter of survival for me... . and sad to know it is a matter of total insignificance to the BPD. Own it!

In my case I felt so smothered by my uBPDxh that I had to get away and absence made my heart grow fonder.  He wanted me to be his whole life to the point of engulfing me. But after a while it was more of a relief I felt being away from him than anything and started missing him less and less because when I was away I was no longer stressed and afraid.