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I hate to admit this about myself, but do you ever smile just a little bit inside when you hear things aren't working out for your ex?  Not trying to sound vindictive, but after some of the awful things he's done, every now and again i'm glad to know that karma still exists and to be reminded that we reap what we sow.   

Oh how I wish karma would get mine and I could hear that things aren't working out for him!  hasn't happened yet but I am praying and hoping it does one day!

so no, you are certainly not alone!  I am sure we all feel this way but not all of us would admit to it, because it aint that nice!  but hey, after what we have all put up with it is certainly very understandable!

Enjoy your little smile inside!  Hey do share what happened (so we can smile vicarously too)!

Honestly, yes. Shortly after my ex left me, she lost her job, was hospitalized, diagnosed with BPD and has been in and out of psychiatric wards ever since. I saw her recently in the street for the first time in a very long time - she'd put on a lot of weight and looked like sht.

I admit to having a small part of my primitive reptile brain feeling smug about this in a "So this is how it all worked out for you, huh?"- kinda way. But increasingly I just feel really sad for her - as the hurt and anger over our relationship and her leaving me increasingly has subsided, pity is becoming my predominant feeling towards her.

Glad to know I'm not the only one!  Sofia, I'd have the same response too.   lol. I think my spite will eventually turn to pity.  I'm still too close to the breakup right now.  It's hard now to feel sorry form somebody who hurt me so bad but that will pass.

Larissa, karma will come... .When they least expect it.  What happened?  Well, my ex was employed by one of his "friends" (which means somebody he uses) but his friend fired him when he found out he was texting inappropriate messages to a girl the friend very recently broke up with.  I laughed out loud!  lol. Karma.  Keep it coming!

lol yep like that one, smiling for you!

I will admit it. I'd love to hear that karma finally had come back around to him. Unfortunately with NC I have no way of knowing when and if this will happen, so I just have to have trust in the universe. Things always have a way of coming back around. And while that is going to take care of itself, I am going to focus on me rather than him. At the very least he is mentally ill and incapable of true happiness anyway. Seems like a miserable existence when everything in their lives is a fake illusion, and when at the core of their being they really are just a bottomless pit that can never be filled. Ugh! No thanks! I'd rayed concentrate on MY GOOD KARMA for being able to get away from him? And to quote another on this site ... .The girl he ran off with before we broke up? Well I must have been a way better person in my past lives than she was. I am free, he is now her problem

When he lost his job while I was with him, I smiled to myself. He was so self important and they would never fire him! Yet my better position was consuming too much of my time and the people were below me. I should have just gone and worked at McDonalds according to him. So then I do smile.

Now I don't care. What ever happens to him happens. Hopefully it won't include me anymore.

I don't even feel sympathy for him, just a sense of indifference. Now its about me!

I need to add the last time I talked to him I apologized for being so crazy. For all the rotten things I felt I had done.

Yes.  However I am not proud of it either.

At this stage while I dont wish him physical harm, I would love to hear of how karma has bitten him in the a$$. Then again, we are not in their heads and I suspect that karma is already in their heads 24 x 7.

Of course.

I'm human and have human emotions, some not so pretty. 

But there is also a desire for him to LEARN from his mistakes. Kinda "I told you so" sort of thing.

In fact I hope for his sake something happens bad enough to get him into treatment but not bad enough to kill him.

I have maintained friendships with all of my ex boyfriends over the years even with some horrendous breakups.  With time and distance, I don't take what they do/say to heart and simply am glad I moved on in each case.

In this case it may be different... .this is a guy that didn't grieve for his father or brother when they died. Why would he even miss me with that kind of dissociative style of relating? I'm a little envious... .:)

Honestly it doesn’t make me feel good when the X fails.

The practical reason is because it only causes her to create more chaos.  This means the kids get slammed.  The stress causes her to invent a reason to call the police for something she claims I did.  Before long CPS is investigating me too.  Or we end up in court over some stupid motion she filed to harass me with.

Right now for a few reasons she is on an incredible high.  This is causing her to do some really stupid things.  I can almost guarantee within a year she is going to get whacked upside the head something fierce.  The fallout is going to be immense.

As an aside it wouldn’t do my karma much good to laugh at her bad karma.

i don`t have anything else to say but yes yes yes.

I hope that he is gets caught drunk driving and has to pee in a cup once a month or lose his Chripopractic license.  It is the  only thing that will make him seek help.  He is begging for it.  He is still driving his truck with plates that expired on July 1 and it is almost September 1.  He is that dysfunctional.

Just had a T session last night about this... .found out that the ex's daughter had her athletic full ride yanked for poor grades--on the eve of starting her freshman year. I spent countless hours working with the kid (until I moved out) cause her mom had 'given up' on her. Feel bad for the kid (really do) but am delighted that the ex is likely bed-ridden with depression. Karma sucks--for them! I'm smiling like a chesshire cat. Mwahahaha!

Honestly, not anymore. He has BPD. The only way I hope he fails is in finding his life so increasingly empty and chaotic that he commits to a serious course of treatment that can help him. All the other crap, the lying, the other women, the splitting, all of it... .any more I just see it as symptoms of a very sad disorder. I did this with him for six years, i saw him splitting me, but also his d15, his ex wife, any woman he has been close to. I take none of it personally anymore, ive seen way too much. It pains me to see his symptoms because I see such a good man in there.

I gotta admit that I don't mind if each of the women who follow me dump my ex. It would give me pleasure! I wish something would happen that would make him want to learn  from his repeat performances. I am not at the stage yet of being sufficiently detached to wish him well--other than that he would learn to examine his behavior toward others.

SD said that hers didn't grieve deaths. Mine didn't either. Now, that's weird! I think they are not capable of mourning because mourning involves more intact psychic structure than they have. I don't think my ex understood that I was grieving my mother even though I didn't have a perfect childhood. It didn't compute for him. His mother died and then the only thing that happened was that he chased women more!

Diotima

I don't want to see my ex fail for two reasons.

One is surely selfish... .when he is happy, he does not pester me, and I can get on with my life.

The other reason is that I don't take pleasure in revenge. This was someone I cared about, and although he hurt me deeply, I hope that he will find the help he needs one day to get better, and to find the happiness that the good person inside of him deserves.

First thing that came to my mind when I saw When your Ex Fails... .Daycare.

We should have paid a little more attention in Finger Paints.

Or been a little more original in Story Time. (it WAS gettin old)...

Followed by Sobriety Test.

On things not working out.

Liver Transplant... .Sorry the Organ Rejected YOU.

Face Lift, Skydiving, and Cure For Stupidity... .poor thing.

Incontinence, Flatulence, Stuttering, all fit in too.

Hair loss, Drooping Eye Syndrome, Hemorrhoids, Chronic Hiccups work too.

Rusted Brake Lines, Deportation, IRS Audit.

No realistically I wish her all she deserves.

Health, Happiness, Anti psychotic Medication, Athletes Foot, and Lice.

I hope she sees the Light, and there Blue.

A Padded Cell with a Window... .3 Feet above her head next to the Sewage Treatment Plant.

Really, I hope the woman can at some point own her shi+, Make Amends to those she has hurt, have the Guts to Do Somethin about it, And stop blamin everyone else.

My ex already has hair loss and hemorrhoids, some weird foot fungus, various obscure digestive disorders, etc. Since he doesn't own up to the harm he does others and probably never will, I like the idea of a padded cell near (really near) a sewage treatment plant!  lol

D

First of all, I don't think God answers prayer when we ask Him to do harm to another human.

That goes against His nature.

Secondly, BPD's live a life of hell on earth, and they cause enough suffering of their own.

I truly wish my H would get into some real counseling and be honest with himself.

That is all, as you were. 

I struggle with this.    It is not my nature to wish harm to someone, and when he is hurt (real or imagined)  he devastates everyone around him, and I don't wish him the courtesy of more victims.   I don't want anyone else to go through what I (and countless others) have been through with him.    I do wish he would wake up, because he has a HUGE Karmic debt building up.  I DESERVED way better treatment than I got, but I put up with it- so shame on me!  I don't want to resent him- because it would be like me taking a poison and expecting it to hurt HIM.    I do wake up at night sometimes and wish someone would inflict pain on him like I've suffered, but it's not something I'm proud of at all ?

I never get to enjoy it cause she makes sure i never find out about this stuff until she wants me back then she wants me to FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT!. So at this point im involved in trying to fix it and cant see the funny in it lol

Same here.

I don't have to wish for anything, really.

I know that without intensive therapy/desire/social support... .he can't have a great outcome. But that's true for all of us.

Essentially what I think everyone is talking about is the feeling they were treated UNJUSTLY and unfairly.

It's similar to the feeling one gets when cheated of money from a con artist. You want your money BACK!

Since we can't get what we "gave" back, the feeling of vindication creeps in quite often.

I remember a long time ago a boyfriend and myself had a miserable breakup. Now we are amicable and I am happy to hear he is married and I talk to his wife! And I am happy I didn't marry him. We both talked about how hurtful we both were afterwards, he felt he wasn't being mature and I felt the same. We both agreed it was really hard to walk away from each other and the hostility was just another way of staying attached.  It's a process... .

Wishing harm on a person with an underdeveloped sense of self is one way of splitting them black after an enmeshment. Since Borderlines merge with others- they place themselves in a one-down position, and they sometimes choose partners with very strong identities to reinforce this distorted belief.

That way both people in the enmeshed relationship serve themselves a self fulfilling prophecy of destructive, thematic patterns: one person expecting to be criticized and the other trying to change the distorted belief (thereby becoming exactly what the Borderline wants: a hypercritical parent) convincing themselves and the other that their belief is just not true. One person is thinking that they are capable of handling another person's schema and the other is testing that very schema which sets up both parties for a controlling tug of war.

Borderlines need a parent substitute- which means that the partner is set up to take everything personally- and this is a lifelong pattern (a schema) that won't go away for "fixers" when the Borderline partner goes away. This very schema is what attracted you to the Borderline in the first place and caused a deep archaic wounding to open up again. In the beginning of the relationship you are seen as perfect. In time that perfection changes with the Borderline becoming defective. This wounding of yours is one of perceived imperfection, of scapegoating (something the Borderline knows all too well) resulting in the outcome of your loss of personal control over how you are perceived, and subsequently respected. What happens in the interim is a wishing for retribution and destruction of the part time object you've enmeshed with- because now that they're detached and separated from you- in spite of all of your efforts at fixing them- they must be split bad to protect your good.

This is a phase that everyone goes through- and it is the outcome of an archaic wounding, but it must heal by addressing the wound- *not the perceived cause of the wound*- You probably figure the cause of all of this is the Borderline ex-partner. (It's not- the Borderline came later and reactivated the pain.)

If you continue to expend energy for revenge- you are missing the opportunity to see your hurt as an essential part in this very important personal interaction. This dance takes two, and the person in the lead was often yourself- reacting to acting and acting to reacting. Finding reward in your efforts and then losing reward when the results we're withdrawn.  Don't underestimate your power and the pull of the schema that attracted you. If you are to heal from this, you must take responsibility for your own actions and let go of the anger that another person forced you into something that you are ashamed of. The location that leaves you at must be your starting point for self reflection- not only on how you got there- but also where you are going and how you are going to heal.  Letting go of the anger and not taking it personally is a responsible start to address your own wounds. Your validation of yourself begins with letting go of revenge and then uncovering what your schemas are and why they attracted you to this person's supposed defectiveness in the first place. 

Karma applies to everyone in this manner. Karma involves everything that is action and reaction and lessons learned- which should provide expansion and upward mobility, with the outcome being personal consciousness and accountability.  Only then will happiness come. Until then, try to figure out the lesson- what was it that pulled you back for more? Even more important to uncover and accept of yourself while in the face of evidence that the continuing interaction drained your energy while simultaneously becoming a compulsion.  :light:

You can read about maladaptive schemas on Jeff Young's site and see how many are paired oppositionally with BPD schemas. These he calls "lifetraps." www.schematherapy.com/id73.htm (http://www.schematherapy.com/id73.htm)

VERY well put into words.

And the FEELINGS/FANTASIES are normal... .what we decide do with them can help us grow or stay stuck.

And even if we didn't "want" the role of hypercritical parent, we got it and stayed anyways. Yes, learning to let go is the goal. And it's work. And the focus has to be redirected towards us to do that work, not what the BPD does or doesn't do and with whom and what if and if only and so on. It's like saying "If Kansas was in Missouri, then... ." It's futile.

And yes, the BPD does have an uncanny ability to almost force a person into a parental role and even with the best boundaries they can still see you as that hypercritical parent to oppose, defy, fool, and get angry at. In fact, it is sort of flattering, in a sick way... .they get the chance to finally get angry with the "parent" they didn't have a voice with before, and we get to BE the parent that was hypercritical of us at one time.

Basically when I ended this relationship is really did feel like throwing an unruly teenager out of the house... .something my father SHOULD have done with me. Ironically when I first met him, he proudly showed me photos he took of the chronology of a hummingbird and her eggs in a nest up to the point where they flew away... .:'(

Well, I don't entirely buy it (I partly buy it). I met an intellectual who I wanted to work with and didn't at first even think of a romantic relationship, but then a year later it turned into one and seemed to have everything I had always wanted. Things went south for me as they have for all of the people posting on this board.

As for "wishing harm on a person with an underdeveloped sense of self," yes, I am angry at what happened (and am letting off some steam in the form of fantasies) and at what he surely knew (despite his BPD). He knew what he was doing and he knew it would cause trouble (whether or not he could feel how much it would hurt me). He knew he was asking me to marry him while he was scheming about other women. He knew that. Now maybe his underdeveloped self couldn't control itself. OK, I can accept that. So, he should have told me that he wanted someone else. I don't care what kind of personality disorder he has, he is responsible for that. To hold him to anything less, is to treat him like an infant.

Diotima

Considering that I've finally gotten past the desire to smash his face in for the way he abused me... .

Yes. Of course it would make me happy. Karma can't knock on his door fast enough, as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry, he's an ass, and he deserves it.

I'm not Gandhi, I'm a woman who was abused and emotionally tortured. I've got Schadenfreude to spare.

lol I'm with you girlfriend!

Nope, I can honestly say I don't. I bear no ill will towards my ex. Yes, there have been brief moments where I felt angry towards her. However, one thing I've learned recently, anger is a sign that there's something I'm not taking personal responsibility for... .in most cases, it was letting everything get to me.

I have no reason to be angry at her or even myself. When it really comes down to it, both of us made the decision to stick around... .there are always choices in every situation. Also, the two of us did the best we could in the relationship given our levels of personal growth at the time.

I see everything that's happened not as a mistake or failure, its an opportunity for improvement. And improve my life I most certainly have done since we ended things for good. I sincerely wish that my ex gets the help that she needs so that she can actually be happy and enjoy life for once. The good in her definitely deserves it.

Thank you for this insightful and clear post. The devaluation period of a relationship with a pwBPD is very painful. Although I was mindful of this... and I often wonder if other non's are... that we are initially placed on a pedestal. Although that position is uncomfortable at first, even down right embarrassing, over time the stoop on the pillar becomes more like a hammock as it swings back and forth and lulls one to sleep and security. Finally we tell ourselves, someone truly sees my self worth and loves me. Ahhh, bliss and security, that which needed shoring up in childhood and wasn't-and ignored in the darker recesses of our psyche is now completed through the "other" and then, suddenly, the other dissapears. Oh, the emotional pain of our beloved's scorn. This sudden loss of respect and being seen as worthy is (gulp) gone... kind of like a child suddenly being lost in the crowd and screaming for the security of its mother, and mother is no where in sight.

Working through the pain, anger, grief and origins of such deep seated emotional pain is the gift at the end of the pedestal fall. When I reached the floor-the only option worth consideration was to pick me up and figure out how to get through the mess of emotional fires now burning. Do I enjoy having learned this lesson-no I liken it to chemotherapy to treat a cancer... it was something I needed to do in order to survive. But is my life improved because of the experience-yes. I am the happiest I have ever been.

Do I resent the pwBPD -oh, I resent how he treated me, of course. Do I resent him personally, no-I am at the place of indifference. Does it sting, sure at times it will. The memory does. Yet, were it not for the experience my opportunity for growth would not have occurred-and on the flip side I realize now, his choice in me was due to my dysfunction and vulnerability, I was a victim fresh for the picking.I didn't deserve what happened-but I am responsible for how I handle the after math.

C

2010... .

Good post.

I don't think realistically there are truly that many "Turn The Other Cheek" people out there. I also think it's basic human nature when one gets smacked to want to smack back.

From my own experience with a pwBPD, and all that I have read about BPD most sufferers could piss off the Pope.

I think that after a r/s goes south the Non bpw partner is somewhat justified in having whatever feelings they have including "payback".

1 to 5 years down the road if we are still thinking about revenge our own behavior and state of mind needs to be looked at. Resentmensts are like drinking the poison and hoping the other person dies.

I clown around, make stupid jokes, and poke my idea of fun at pwBPD.

I don't really mean it, and certainly wouldn't act on any of it. Just my twisted way of Dealin with it, or workin through it.

I mean if she was drowning and going down for the last time, of course I would throw her a life preserver. To show my sincerity and undying love heck I'd throw her the other end of the rope too, with a cement block tied to it.

I don't wish pain and suffering on anyone. There is enough of it in the world without addin to it. I hope someday, before the Gangrene sets in she gets the help she needs... .

 
Yep-and that is what we have to accept-the ambivalence of our feelings. Kind of messy-but thats life.  lol :)

Thanks for the laugh.

C

Yes.  Absolutely wonderful post.  I understand what you mean about being the happiest with yourself that you've ever been and I feel the same way.  Still just a little melancholy for what was and what I thought that we were going to have.  I miss my old buddy (when he was my buddy) :'( just a little.

The first couple months after the nasty ending I would relish in the thought of my ex failing.  I wanted it, I craved it, I desired it a heck of a lot!  But as time has passed and I have pieced myself together, I feel more pity towards my ex failing than anything else.  :)on't get me wrong, I still have my moments of pleasure in her pain (well, in thinking it anyway), but those moments are getting fewer and further apart.

The more I heal myself the more I realize she is a lost little soul and that karma has ALWAYS been biting her in the asss.  Karma will continue to nip away at her life after me, it already has, and it will continue to with the next guy and the guy after that and the guy after that and on and on and on... .until she seeks help, should that day ever come.

I checked her FB a couple days ago and read her postings.  I checked a couple weeks ago as well and see the guy she dumped me for, well, him and his family/friends are no longer on her friends list (evidentally, that relationship went poof just like that as we all expected... .I admit that put a little smile on my face).  It is amazing how CLEARLY I can read between her lines now.  She "jokingly" asked if anyone knows a "nice guy" and that screams out to me as, "Help, I'm alone and don't know what to do.  Please someone come into my life so I can find a little peace."  After reading that comment, I felt sorry for her.  Interestingly, it made me not want her that much more, probably because I see she is a clueless helpless child stuck in a 50-year old body and that is someone I have no interest in being with.  I want a woman, a whole woman body, mind, and soul, and my ex is not even half of that at best.

I know exactly the path my ex will head from here.  She's alone and desperate now, she'll "put herself out there" and will wind up going through a few guys I'm sure.  She'll "settle" because she can't stand being alone.  The guys will smell her desperation right from the get-go and take advantage of it.  Some will flat out use her then ditch her, others may fall for her tears.  Either way, each guy will come and then in the blink of an eye... .poof... .be gone.  Her life path is pretty transparent, this is what will most likely happen and it makes me feel really sorry for her.  There's nothing I can do, nor have any desire to do anymore.  I'm moving on with my life and taking care of me now.  She's on her own.

.

Me too, I miss him also. It sucks doesn't it? Hopefully the sting lessens and it gets easier over time. No matter how much I understand the dynamics (or you do as I read your posts) and the the in between, the heart misses what it misses. I have come to realize that's okay too-you can miss someone and recognize they are not good for you. Kind of like eating Cheetos-love the smell of those chips, and the crunchy texture, absolutely enjoy the the taste. Some of my best meals were Cheetos with peanut butter and jelly. Alas, they are bad for me-I can feel the hardening of my arteries and the spread of my waistline with every crunch. They will increase my sodium intake and increase my blood pressure, heck, another visit to the doctor for a check up-or the choice of running a few miles if I eat them to get them out of my system.

Everytime a bag rustles, I miss my chip. And then I remember all over again... how bad they are for me.

lol

Well, my ex already has failed, BIG-TIME, in that he's been in jail for the last 2 and a half months... .   And while I don't really have a desire to directly hurt him back for what he did to me (hit me in the head about 10 times with a coffee mug... .) and feel a bit sorry for his pathetic a$$, I do have a desire to see him get the karma he deserves for the hurt he has caused me and my family (and who knows how many others... .).  This is a timely topic, because I've been thinking about it a lot over the last few days, due to the fact that his settlement conference is coming up next Tuesday and wondering whether he will be sent to prison on one (or more) of the 3 felony charges they have on him, or be released with a "slap on the wrist" for time already served, as people frequently predict... .  I don't really want the karma of wishing something bad on someone else, however for me and my daughter's own safety and sanity I do have to wish that he gets punished for what he did... .Please send good thoughts our way... .

~KP

And if you're lucky, you get to see it and they get to see that you saw it.  

But this feeling is slowly subsiding.

Bravo! Same here!

Also... .in every relationship... .we all regress. We are at our most vulnerable if we are letting someone in. Therefore, betrayal tends to create pretty strong feelings.

I also think it depends on individual situations, what kind of betrayals took place... .what kind of histories we had that the betrayal reactivated for us... .etc.

Some of us will move on quicker than others to a place of neutrality and forgiveness. Some will unfortunately hold onto anger until their last breath.

But at least this is a board where we can feel free to express our true selves, hopefully without harsh judgement and condemnation. And yes we need to be respectful while airing our feelings as well.

I come here to be honest about my feelings and not make excuses for them. It doesn't mean they are RIGHT, it doesn't mean I'll ACT on them. It is up to me to figure out the meaning of my feelings, where they're coming from, and if they are warranted.

Vindication is a human thing... .around for thousands of years... .the cause of a lot of continued pain (Hatfields and McCoys, religious wars, gang wars... .). Vindication doesn't mean that we actually want harm to come to our exBPD as much sometimes as wanting VALIDATION that it wasn't JUST BECAUSE OF US that they acted they way they did. And that's our own stuff to plow through... .

Damn, so all the praying to God for retribution wont work?hmmm, I would talk to the devil, but they are best friends, so guess thats out... .all kidin aside,,I know it aint paradise no matter where shes at.  You always think about the benefits the new guy is gettin, but I know hes gettin his fair share of abuse too... .and when you hear little snipets from people that confirm that it just seems to make you all warm and fuzzy inside,,Yeh I know , but I paid my dues... .I love Karma,,thats why my dogs name is Amrak,, yeh,, karma backwards... .lol