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Are you holding on to fantasies about someone who has hurt you? Is your fantasy holding you back?

If you've had a relationship with a self-absorbed person, it's common to develop and hold on to fantasies of revenge, recognition, and repair that are not realistic and hold back your healing.

The most constructive and enduring strategy for lessening or eliminating negative effects of the self-absorbed [person] on you is to develop a stronger and more resilient self... .Adopting constructive strategies is more rewarding in the long run than continuing to try to get [the person] to change, as the effort you put into changing him is unlikely to be successful. Turn your time, effort, and emotional investment to developing yourself.



INSTRUCTIONS: Take the poll and comment below, addressing these questions and adding any other comments:

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

Why identify these fantasies and what's wrong with having them?

These fantasies are helping your negative feelings persist, and they reinforce these bad feelings. They are fantasies because they are unlikely to happen just because you wish they would. Neither [the person who has hurt you] nor anyone else is going to change because you want them to. [The self-absorbed person] probably perceives events and situations differently than you do, or he is unaware of or insensitive to your wounding. Your wishes, dreams, and fantasies about your [self-absorbed relative, partner, ex-partner, or friend] are not helpful at all.

Adapted from Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents, 2nd edition, by Nina W. Brown, Ed.D., LPC

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After my H began therapy last Fall, I began to fantasize that he was finally going to 'get it', finally start facing his demons and dealing with his problems. But the therapy didnt last long, only about 6 sessions. Since I had been actively pursuing my own changes and personal growth, I actually thought I could help him find himself. But the day we were talking about an big issue of his, he began to put up his usual resistance. I asked him if he wanted to deal with this or not? He said "why does it have to be like work?" Thats when I was done, all hope gone, I gave up on him and our r/s.

I sometimes catch myself thinking that he feels bad for the hurt he's caused, or that he will want to do what he need to do to keep from losing me. But these thoughts get fewer and farther apart. i accept that he is simply not capable of any real or lasting change. He is who he is. I dont want that kind of a life anymore. Im too excited about my own prospects in the future to spend much time wishing and hoping on a false pretense.

Ive let go. One more month. Then my recovery and healing take off!

Well it's been a year as of today.  I don't fantasize much anymore, but back then I did. Though I think it might be partial dream/nightmare, and not.  Some things I would think about being with Nicole (my close friend that lives here who... .eh, there's an 8 year history that I just can't get into on this post), and the my ex and her mother would show up. Big fight would escalate and Nicole would basically be the one pushing her out the door and saying she'd call the cops on them if they didn't leave.  The ex and her mother would sit there, challenging that and waiting for me to come out and talk to them, then the police would come and cart them away. I'd wave  Hi!

That my ex will realize the errors of his ways, go into T, realize what he has done to me used to be my strongest fantasies at the beginning--along with revenge. I don't do the revenge fantasy but still sometimes have the rest. They have faded, although they are not gone, given that I realize he is very unlikely to ever admit anything or be empathetic about the effects of his actions or really care who I am other than what needs I can meet for him.

Reading the stories of others on this website, hearing my T and a T friend tell me about the trajectory of BPD r/s's, and lots of inner work! I meditate every day too and spend a fair amount of time reflecting on what it is in me that made me so receptive to a BPD--the good and the bad.

I'm not out of the woods, but getting there.

Diotima

1.  I settled custody "on the courthouse steps" - less than 24 hours before trial.  Looking back, I hadn't prepared well enough, so the settlement (50/50) was based on what the CE recommended, and if we had gone to trial, it would have probably gone the same way.  My fantasy is, if I could do it over again, preparing really well, I could have gotten primary custody, and that would have been better for the kids, and better for me too.  I think about a do-over - going back to court and getting all the important information that wasn't on the table at the time, out into daylight and onto the record.

2.  Used to be 5, now about 2.

3.  Not too much.  In fact I think it is a good thing in one way:  It helps me fight my tendency to comply with my ex's orders.  By knowing that this remains an option, I hold the line better when she gets aggressive;  and I've made it clear to her that if she makes it worth my while I might do that - go back to court, with the gloves off.  But getting from 5 down to 2 was important so I can focus on more positive things.

4.  I think talking openly about it has helped - to my ex, with a mediator present, to my counselor, and here.  There is a realistic side of it - an option that I have if push comes to shove - and a much bigger fantasy part - replaying what I should have done 3 years ago.  I think it's OK to keep the real part of it alive and talk openly about the fantasy part, but not dwell on it too much.

1. The fantasy I entertain the most is that the person feels the loss the same way I do. My hope during the chaotic ending was that the feelings of the honeymoon would be enough to bring the person back to the relationship. As I continue the process I realize the honeymoon wasn't quite as rosy as I choose to remember it, and I realize this person really did treat me much less well than I deserved to say the least. I

2. Perhaps a 2 or 3 now. The ruminations aren't continual but more like a dull toothache. I still think of the person every day... .especially waking up in the morning. But more often I'm feeling happy and enjoying freedom. It blows my mind how someone could rush into love and out so quickly and without remorse or empathy, but I'm accepting more that it's the reality of the illness. It goes against my principles completely to treat anyone as poorly as I've been treated but I'm getting to the point where I need less validation from the person.

3. Not as much as it once did. Some days are still a little worse than others. For some reason this weekend seemed to be a downer for me. But I continue to plug away and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

4. I distract myself with movies. I'm working on my own "happiness project". I'm working to manage an artist/friend of mine. IT's giving me a future to think about. For the first time in my life I'm focusing more on building my life than finding a partner though I'm dating casually. Things are getting easier. It's just that these relationships are so uniquely traumatizing. We're attracted so much for our own reasons. Just letting go as we would like to do... .just isn't that easy.

My r/s is with my BPDDD25 and the r/s with my gd6 who has always lived with dh and I, and we have had custody since she was 18mos. and the various BF/SIL's that have drifted through our lives. Almost need a map and a time-line.

Fantasy: DD will see the harm she has done, feel remorse and make amends. Harm to me as mom, to her daughter gd6, to other extended family relationships - could just keep building this one ad naueum    She is actually making a reality out of small parts of this fantasy - so the fantasy has shifted to believing the current more stable "good" cycle will last 'forever' would be a nice fantasy!, and for me to get over the constant 'looking over my shoulder' to see when the "bad" cycle is going to crash the party. Going on four months of her self-control, following the rules to stay in our home, being supportive of gd6 in her daily routines, etc ---- the longest 'good' cycle in all the 25 years of her life that I have seen.

This had reached a number 5 strength fantasy for me - especially the ruminations about something crashing her stable place - most likely something that can be projected onto me. And this is making me ill - physically ill/exhausted, emotionally unstable - a crabbie grammi/mommi/wifey, cognitively very distracted. Have been very hypervigilant about keeping everything in the household under 'control' - DD is living here with bf along with the 'regulars' - me, dh and gd6. I ended up with a serious facial cellulitis infection and in the hospital on IV antibiotics for 5 DAYS. And came home to a perceived shift in all the power away from me into the hands of the current bf living with DD, and therefore with the family. So I was very distressed, depressed, and just wanted to go back to the hospital or get in the car and keep driving til I ran out of gas - this would be where to start a new life   :'(.

So I have been taking steps to be more aware the paradox of this fantasy - that things will continue to progress in a rosy pattern on and on concurrently with the constant fear of implosion or explosion destroying my life as I have come to know it now. I am trying to get more sleep, eat better, get more excercise (ie. walking the dog), I am working to let go of the belief that I have the power to control all the details of my household single-handed - delegating stuff to others and stopping my constant thinking about if they are doing to my standards or not (care of 2 puppies - a tiny one and a giant one; cooking and shopping for food - DD and bf are doing at least 1/2 of the family meals now and weekly grocery shopping and staying in the budget with my credit card - amazing!; limiting my time on the computer and spending more time in the evening with dh - realizing he does love me and misses my company, etc). I have also checked in with my pdoc to increase my bipolar meds and am seeing my T again - and he is supporting all the 'right' things that I have been doing and have trouble believing in, and is encouraging me to find ways to focus on my self-care while the home-front is more peaceful. So this means taking a piece of each day back for quiet pondering, meditation, reading, BREATHING. Getting away from so much thinking, thinking, thinking.

Impact:  I am doing better overall. The strength-o-meter has dropped down to about a 2. I am more aware when my thoughts get in the ruminating pattern and stop/breath/think of something else (well like driving - what color what that last stop-light  - driving is my most thought-absorbed time and boy is that dangerous and I get lost too). I set some new boundaries, with the help of a meeting with gd's school social worker that DD actually accompanied me on - that she reinforced for us that we need to keep gd feeling safe, almost like being in a 'box' of loving care. So I let everyone, esp. bf who was interfering in the dinner time routine/rules creating huge power struggles and no eating by gd, what was expected of gd. And this let gd know what was expected too. And she responded very quickly - taking control of what she eats and eating a little of everything the past few nights. I even researched online and printed off guidlines (research based - who can argue with that) for kids healthy eating habits. So it not just my random thinking. And bf/DD have stepped back from their constant pressure/criticism of gd about so many things that they see from a different perspective than dh and I have maintained with gd over the past several years that DD has been out of touch with gd's daily life.

Sorry if this is too long - appreciate the chance to share and for anyone willing to listen.

qcr  :)

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

That one day I'll have the mother that I get glimpses of when she's trying to be nice.  That she'll eventually apologize and get help for her abusive behavior.  That my dad will wake up and realize what's going on and see that it's not really love.

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

2 maybe 3ish I don't know if I could honestly see them happening they wouldn't be fantasies.  Atleast not to me.  I see fantasies as being something that's good to envision on occasion but know they'll never come true.  Like their on the same scale as me marrying The Rock or Vin Diesel. 

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?  I think that fantasies are okay as long as they're not causing you to want to harm yourself then they're okay.  I do feel that the fantasies of my parents being the normal happy loving parents I desire is causing me more harm than good because everytime they show their true colors it hurts more and more. 

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact? Haven't started ridding myself of the fantasy. 

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

Hmmmm, that I win the lotto and he reads about it and thinks, yikes she is richer than me.  That's about it as far as fantasies are concerned. Money is what he lived for, the possession of it and the power he felt accompanies wealth. I will never win the lotto so the fantasy is just that-a passing fantasy and highlights what happened in the course of our r/s. During the devaluation and discard, my low income became a factor of his scorn of me. Ouch, that hurt. I am in a field that will NEVER be a big bread winner but has blessed me with the ability to make a difference in peoples lives. For along time his comments gave me pause and then I remembered my core values.  :) I remembered who I am.  |iiii But yep, every now and then the lotto fantasy is there.

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

I-passing thought

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

About once every four months I spend a buck on a lotto ticket.  lol :)

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

I evaluated my self esteem and core values due to how upset and crushed I felt when someone that I cared for and held in high regard was critical of my income. I am financially responsible, repay any debt I owe, and live within my means. I support my child and he does not lack any necessities of life. So what was bothering me? My own self doubts... that somehow high income is tied into success. It isn't. What money brings is a car that runs well, excellent health care and retirement... many of us are earning a living wage and may never retire. There is no shame in this.

I decided to stop allowing the exNPDbf negativity in my head. Money is his value, so be it, there is nothing wrong with his values, or mine. But, every once in awhile I do purchase the lotto ticket and think, okay-first I'll set up a foundation/center for victims of DV and then send him a picture of me laying with my millions on my satin sheets and sipping champagne.  lol

The "proving my superiority" one is a big one for me, the "my mom will wake up and recognize how much she has hurt me and make amends" is probably the second biggest. 


I have made a lot of progress letting go of the idea that my mom will change and recognize my value.  It helped a lot to end contact with her, thus ending any possibility of such apologies or recognition.  It was great to realize that I could go on and enjoy life without any apologies from her or recognition by her!     The need to prove my superiority to her is much more deeply seated - in some ways it could be seen as the root of everything I do.  It's hard to separate out my motivations - I really have created a life that I love for myself, and I really do enjoy it, but part of me suspects that I wouldn't enjoy it as much if I didn't think that my achievements have "proved" my value in some way that even she couldn't deny.  I know I need to work on this, but not quite sure where to start.   ?


It drives me to achieve, but also creates a lot of anxiety around failure, since what's at stake is not only the thing itself but also my value as a human being. 


As I said above, ending contact ended the possibility of reconciliation and acknowledgement, which helped me let go of the need for it, and see that even never having that recognition from her didn't impact my life that much.  Letting go of the need to prove myself superior would be a huge step for me I think, one I will think about how to achieve! 

I used to have all kinds of fantasies about crazyx. I had millions of imaginary scenarios and conversations where I would be vindicated.

It took a long, long time... .but I don't have any fantasies about him at all now.  Don't wish him harm, don't wish him well, I have nothing to prove and I don't need/want anything from him. 

Oh wait!  I would like my money back. I could really use that $$ now, BUT... .I no longer have any fantasies about that happening or how that could/should work. The money is gone and so is he.  It was a small price to pay for my freedom and sanity.

I am grateful to be this far down the road.  I remember thining that I would never get to this place --- yet... .I did.

Now... .there's a few other people I need to deal with. lol.  Sigh.

turtle

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

I had mainly revenge fantasies of physically hurting her and making her admit she is crazy. 



2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

At first a 5 now I would say 1 and rarely

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

At times it made me feel better, but knew was just fantasy and anger expressing itself.   My son got tired of hearing about it.  I realized that it was making him feel guilty for getting involved with her and creating turmoil.  I, his mother, was causing him more hurt. Not a nice feeling for a mother to have and a wake up call.  

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

The steps I took were to try (still working on that) to have compassion for the disorder and realize that it is the nature of the beast--for me I liken her to a rattlesnake.  You cannot blame a rattlesnake for being a rattlesnake.  You avoid them.

Since the court hearing and her being exposed in court for the disordered person she is, that helped tremendously.  Having the court agree she was an unfit mother and their infant daughter was better off raised by her father (my son).  Vindication that my son was not exaggerating and that she could not ban me from seeing the child.  I also got to see her enabling sister realize (though I doubt it changed anything in their r/s) the things her sister had done.  I will admit that my private thought immediately after the judge ruled was "you thought you could outsmart me b*tch". Ironically, then I felt a bit guilty.

I also remember my mother saying you can only let someone upset you if you let them.  I have passing thoughts, but not daily and just enjoy being with my granddaughter.  Part of me will always be grateful to her for giving our family such a precious little girl.   

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

I fantasize about S being/becoming open about the relationship with her friends and family and acknowledging that not doing so in the past has caused hurt and a lot of problems.  Though, to be honest, if the former happened, I would be fine (meaning I could move on fine) without the apology or acknowledgment. 

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

Given the relationship hinges on this more then any other issue, it's something frequently on my mind.  That said, S is very early into therapy and given that I am already seeing some positive changes, I don't constantly ruminate about it because I know this answer will take time (and because I'm just too busy to ruminate!). 

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

Well, at some level, I'm waiting for someone who may never be able to be all-in in the relationship.  Not an insignificant impact in terms of my time, energy, and emotional investment.  Also, the dynamic does impact how I socialize with her friends (ie I really don't anymore) and sometimes how I view her (ie I don't think lying to others is a very attractive trait). 

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

This is a limit for me.  I can't be in a long term relationship with someone who doesn't acknowledge it.  I'm giving this time because she's in therapy, but I'm not ridding myself of the expectation that this is the only way forward for me.  If the fantasy doesn't happen, I'll need to leave.  It's pretty simple.  In the meantime, I just accept that she has a serious mental illness that she's working on and a rough history.  I don't often get 'angry' anymore; I just observe and also implement boundaries to keep myself out of situations that I know will be triggering to me.  And I continue to live as I want to - including affirming the relationship to my own friends and family, even when she is there and it requires her to deal with some discomfort.  Between all of this - and the fact that I have so much of my stuff to work on and so much work to do day to day period - I've found a working balance for the time being.   

With respect to my wife I have let go of these fantasies. But there are other highly problematic persons in my life where the wounds are fresh and the list sums it up nicely. So it is back to square one. I guess I have to do this work for each painful relationship where I detach from.

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

  - Primarily around vindication. I believe me and several other persons were hurt badly. If everyone would see that person like I do that person would sink into the earth by sheer weight of guilt and shame.

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

  - Was 5 - very strong. Took me 4 weeks of vacation to get down to maybe 3.

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

  - Not good at all.

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

  - Spending some time thinking about it made it worse. One put to rest another one comes up and then tackling that triggers the first.

  - Doing other stuff helped somewhat.

  - Reading a book that had nothing to do with any of it

  - Spending private time doing something for myself and making my environment nicer

  - Confiding in a friend

  - Writing down my boundaries to prevent a repeat for at least myself. Were tested shortly later and while I was triggered all over the place helped me avoid a bigger mess.

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

I wish she would admit she was wrong and amend, and also change.

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

When we were together - 5.

Today I do not care.

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

It was something I clinged on to maintain hope for our r/s. It also was the reason I broke nc after a month. I was extremely lucky, I got a sort of amendment and a closure which gave me a much more peaceful mind.

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

See 3, also after the breakup, when I realised she had BPD and found this site, and then understood it was not about me and my behavior.

Which fantasies do you have, if any?

When we were still together and she was seeing a therapist I used to think that the therapist might find a way of breaking throught her defence mechanisms of blame and projection. I hope I would a at some time no longer be the demon she perceived me as. The therapist admited she was making very slow/ No progress and my uBPDw would need years of therapy. Since this idea did not appeal to my uBPDw she gave up therapy.

2. How strong were those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

It was devastating. I had supported her throughout our entire relationship suddently the table turned and I became desperate to try to repair and fix things. I would say this fantacy was a the 5 level for a month. 


3. How did the fantasy impacting your life?

By trying to cling to this fantacy I made things worse. Her rejection of me become more extreme. Conflict became a way of living for a short time. I did not understand that using logic and reason was completely pointless and guarteed to fail. 

I finally let go of this fantasy. Letting go of "hope" was the hardest thing I have ever done. Letting go of the idea that we could ever be truly happy together. Letting go of the idea that my children could be raised in a home filled with love and happiness.  She made it easier for me to let go of the idea that we might ever be friends again (my marriage ended when she started making false accusations against me and all trust was gone).

I regret that my attempts to hold on meant the children witnessed conflict between us. I did my best by not being in the same room as her, leaving the house when she raged, tried to answer calmly that I would not allow her to continually rage at me but would talk to her when she calmed down. She never truly ever did.


4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

Looking to my own needs and feelings. Education about BPD/NPD helped me understand what I had been through and why she did the things she did. Reading SWOE. Working on the information and material on this forum. Journaling my thoughts and feelings. Therapy. Engaging in social activities. Reconnecting with friends. Focusing on my work and not letting that slip (this was a powerful distraction). Looking to the needs of my children. Meditation. Recognising I has let my boundaries slip and choosing to resestablish these (each time I expect a backlash from my wife).

High functioning pwBPD + NPD seldom change or commit to therapy. Her wish was to have a quick fix therapy "Just tell me what I need to do". It will be much easier for her to find another man and repeat the cycle than to see the part she played.

I now realise that she suffers from a mental health condition which is the result of combination of biology and environment (uNPDf and uBPDm, genetics + environment). She has no true insight. She sees the patterns but it is easier to blame others (she has done this for 25+ years). She is unwilling to face because it that would be harder than the alternative.

Looking to my own emotional intelligence and the role I played in the relationship. Learning from the midstake I made in not spotting red-flag and not seeting boundaries.

In letting go of this fantasy I have chosen to commit to new goals in my life:

To put myself and my children first in my life.

To have no concern for my uBPDw and the choices she will make for herself (aside from being aware of the impact her choices may have on our children).

To live my own life by my personal guiding beliefs and values.

To focus on my work and be the best that I can be at that.

To cherish my family and their love.

To appreciate the friendship that I have built with others.

I hold the key to my own happiness. That happiness is within me. It is part of who I am.

I can be a positive influence on my children. I can proved them with a safe santuary when they are with me. I hope I can instil enough wisdom, balance, perspective and idependence for them to make their own decisions as they grow up. 

Looking back I understand the need I had to hold on to my fantacy. It was all I thought I had. Without it I thought I would be lost. In reality it was this fantacy which kept me lost. I am stronger for having let it go and my children are in a better place.

I have been given a gift. A chance to live my life as I choose, not dictated by the needs or demands of someone else. I have a second chance. For this I am extremely grateful. I will embrace it and live life to the full.

Divorce is like a second chance for the pwBPD to continue to abuse you, to try to exert control and manipulate. Attorneys accusations, custody battles, mind games, financial misappropriation are the tools by which the conflict coninues. Staying strong is not easy. Having coping mechanisms and a clear vision of where you are going is essential to staying focused on what is important and what is not.

MJJ

Before I learned about BPD, I truly believed that STBXH would one day shake his head and say, out loud, "What am I doing?  This woman loves me unconditionally!  I am never going to make her cry again."

Dependance on God has saved me from some of the other fantasies, like revenge and vindication.  Now I just want to be free.  I pray that H gets the help he needs to grow past the angry, blaming, emotionally raw person that I lived with for 20 years.

When I gave up on hoping that H would change was the day I left.  No more fantasies at all that include him, unless it was a quick and relatively painless divorce.

Great Poll/thread!

The person suffers because of what was done to you.    - 15 (9.9%)

You are able to outperform the person who has hurt you and can rub his/her nose in your superiority.    - 11 (7.3%)

Everyone around him sees him or her as you do and rejects him or her.    - 14 (9.3%)

You are vindicated.    - 23 (15.2%)

You are able to do to the person who hurt you what he or she did to you, or someone else does that to the person.    - 6 (4%)

I used to hold one or more fantasies like this, but I have let them go.    - 18 (11.9%)

Which fantasies do you have, if any?

I always hope(d) that somehow I was wrong, that she didn’t have BPD (due to its intractable nature) and would come to her senses and see that someone loves her despite her actions. A "This is Your Life" or courtroom moment where she would have to explain what she did, obliged to answer directly to those she hurt.  This would lead to her ultimately revealing who and what she is.  Validation more than vindication, her accepting and recognizing what she has done. Seeing the awful realization set in, finally recognizing the depth of the pain she knowingly inflicted on someone else. Explaining how I could once be the love of her life and now be nothing.

The irony is that she will only love those who made her the way she is.

I often want to go to sleep and never wake up. I woud love for her to know that I died of a broken heart and for her one day come to unerstand what she has done. To live a very long life with this knowledge.

2. How strong were those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations):

5 Constant ruminations, trying to understand this has consumed my life. Every second that I am awake I think about this and ache. The worst part about all of this is that I know better. I know there is no hope for her and I, yet I die a little bit each day.

3. How did the fantasy impacting your life?

It drains me, I sit at work and stare at my screen for hours. When I go home all I cant deal with anything else. Noises are too loud, lights too bright. I am stuck inside of my own head. I cant get away from any of it. I just want it to stop. I cant stand to hear her voice yet I miss her. I cant do anything else, yet I know better.

Which fantasies do you have, if any?

These are the ones I had. I don't have them anymore... .

The other person admits his/her errors and the way he/she has hurt you and makes amends.

You are able to outperform the person who has hurt you and can rub his/her nose in your superiority.

You are vindicated.  

The person will change and regret what he or she did or said.

2. How strong were those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations):

They dominated my thinking for a good 6 months. I started feeling better but still ruminated on and off. Talking to her again actually helped put it all to bed. Not being emotionally connected and actually listening and believing what she told me was key. I never actually believed what she was saying before because it didn't make sense. lol. Now I see why she thinks the way she does and I can communicate better with her.

3. How did the fantasy impact your life?

It pretty much parked my life in neutral. I sucked at work and it effected my peronal relationships. I'm better now... .as far as intimate relationships go... .I've been idle for a year and I am just starting to get moving again.

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

I would love to have closure.  I would love for my BPDbf to "wake up" and see that he was part of the problem and sincerely apologize for what happened between us and the pain he put me through.  

I had fleeting revenge fantasies at one point but never thought they were real or interesting. I think they came more from my frustration at not getting closure than anything else.  

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

Needing closure was a 5 at one point - probably a 1 now.  In some ways, it might always be a 1.  I would like to say I could bury those feelings but I spent a significant part of my life with a BPDbf and I experience emotional upheaval for years.  Would a rape or assult victim ever turn down a sincere apology from the person who hurt them even if it came years after the event?  I think even a late apology would be better than none.  I realize it will never come and perhaps my desire for it will fade in time but I can't predict that now.

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

It doesn't really effect things anymore.  I am still emotionally recovering from the relationship but I don't think fantasies are holding me back.  I think the relationship uncovered old childhood stuff and I want to deal with it and put it to rest.  This has turned into a different process for me apart from the BPD relationship.

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

Therapy has been a lifesaver for me.  I am grateful I have a wonderful and supportive T.  Getting a lot of negative events out here, in a supportive environment, has also been very helpful.  Reading lessons here has helped as well as outside reading.  Allowing myself time to mourn and grieve and be angry and anxious was necessary too.  Rebuilding my life, renewing friendships and making new friendships has also helped.  In many ways, I feel like I have started a new and better life - focusing on that life allows me to move on past old events.

I had only marked that I held one or more of these fantasies but had let them go.

My 'fantasy' was not listed. That fantasy, was that after momster was gone, my sibs and I (with the exclusion of evilsis) would get back to some level of being family in our old age. This was not a conscious 'fantasy' per se, but an expectation. Even if it was contact only during major holidays.

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

How strong was that fantasy? 2 or 3.

The fantasy is not now impacting my life.

There is no impact, but the reality since this fantasy was broken, is that I am a 'marroned' family member with no family. So I have to make strides to replace what 'wasn't'. By becoming more active in organizations, or some other source of networking.

I was pretty flippant in my post as it has been awhile since I have fantasies about my exNPDbf. The fantasies at first were like many on this board...

1. I wanted so much for him to seek professional help and make amends through the form of an apology. The fantasy was not so much of a recycle of the relationship as it once was, but the possibility of a friendship down the road, a long distance one. He wanted this but I could not allow one as he did not apologize, so without understanding his behavior was abusive, there was no way I could allow him back into my life. And as long as I challenged him about his abusiveness, he could not face me, either.

2. The first year, a five. Now, it is non-existent with exception of one thing, I do hope he seeks professional help for himself.

3, The first year I saw him EVERYWHERE-it was uncanny. So the it impacted my life quite a bit. Now it doesn't. I was wreck that first year, useless in many areas of my life, just one big sore of human suffering.

4. Acceptance was how I rid myself of the fantasy. I had to accept that it was his life and his choices and the best I could do was heal from the emotional and verbal abuse. I realized I didn't need his validation of my emotional pain to make the experience any more real, hurtful or eventual healed from by me. I didn't need him to make it all better-or to even explain himself. He ended the relationship on a bad note-I ended the relationship on an ugly note through my confrontation of him. It was unfortunate but now I see it as a crucial component of my healing. I faced my abuser... and lost all contact with him due to his rage. Over time I understood that the healthier part of me was standing up for myself, even if I went about it the wrong way. At the time, it was the best I could do and if I had to accept and forgive myself for this... could I not also see his suffering, too? He may have denied his suffering... but in his unguarded moments, the man was filled with shame. I didn't realize it then, I do now. Acceptance and release.

I really don't have any of these fantacies and I have never had them.  All I do is hope that my UBPDW will improve with my abilities to better communicate with her with a soothing ability.  If I have any fantacies, they would be for our relationship to return to the way it was 43 years ago when we were married.  She was so attentive and we loved each other so very much.  At this time, I am the one who loves her so very much.  I dream of the time when just the loving part of intimacy returns.  I long for her to kiss me back, and hug me back again like before.  I have not lost my feelings for her. 

     I have had success with boundries, and limits.  With my boundry unsaid, every time she raged with humiliating words and implications towards me, I would immediately jump up and leave the room.  This stopped the abuse.  After doing this several times, she stopped raging for the most part.  This is a break through.  It seems the only time she will rage now is when I am trapped in the car with her.  I am trying to devise a boundry to stop that as well.  I think it will take me getting out and walking home.  I did that once, and it took me about three and one half hours to walk home.  Boy, was I tired and my knees hurt as I have artheritis in my knees.  I guess I must do that again.  Another thing I do is treat her like a queen most of the time, and I don't believe she respects that.  I need to think on this and figure out how to deal with my nice guy actions.  Sorry that I got a little carried away.

Art

This thread is a good idea!  I'll give it a shot.  It sure can't hurt to give it some thought... .

1) I marked "Other," since I did not quite find a match on the list.  I want to trust my ubpw again. I long to be able to true forgiveness rather than excusing or forgetting.  I want my wife to express love to me, to stop getting drunk, to respect that I do not cheat on her despite her infidelities, to stop her over-zealous friendship with her ex-husband.  I want her to stop saying bad things about other people no matter who they are or how screwed up they may truly be.

2) Impact about a 5 or 6, I'd say.

3) I am bitter about being betrayed, insulted, emotionally and financially drained, put down and undermined.  And so I am angry. Often, I am wishing for a fantasy that is not going to happen.

4) I tried getting in shape, pursuing my art, cultivating my spitiruality, and making new friends, but by far the most powerful step was to get sober.  I am completely sober for more than a year now.  It is surprising how much better you feel without those few drinks.  I also changed my expectations somewhat and started to pay attention to what boundaries I expect and to communicate them or make it known to my spouse when they are violated.

I think the only overwhelming fantasy I have is that my uBPDm will finally realize she needs help, seek it, get better, and actually be capable of being truly happy for once her in life.

I don't really care if she admits everything she has done to me and how awful it was. I don't really want revenge. I think I have moved past the abuse I suffered as a child and have forgiven my abuser(s) for it. I just would like her to have some happiness before she dies. She's been denied it her entire life and I find that tremendously sad. I think I hang on to this so hard partly because I am agnostic and very ambivalent about any sort of "afterlife." I think the chances are nil that there is one (as much as I would like to think there is.) So, from my point of view, if she doesn't find a way to happiness now, in this life, she never will. That will be it. How heartbreaking!

The bonus of her getting better is that I could finally have a stable, safe relationship with her. That would be amazing!

In the past that fantasy was about a 4 at times. Now it is more like a 2, sometimes 3.

It makes it hard for me to realize I can't help her. I can't convince her to get better. I can't make her see the light. Because I so desperately want her to.

I'm working on letting go of the fantasy of her ever being better. It's hard. I am working on facing and dealing with the sadness that comes over me when I imagine my Mom will never have been a truly happy person. Right now I still tend to hide from that sadness. However, I know if I don't deal with it, I will never accept the reality that she is unlikely to change. But the reality of her NEVER being happy and okay with herself is a very hard reality for me to swallow.

when fantasy becomes reality  :)

my d did realize how she hurt me and asked to be forgiven... .when she makes a mistake now she usually apologizes and askes to be forgiven... .without prompting from me!  my answer is of course "yes, i forgive you" lest we create an environment of shame, self degradation or disharmony.

the thing about it is that i expected to be vindicated... .instead i was humbled and thankful that my precious d was finding a way out of the shame of BPD!

props to her!  she has worked hard!

lbjnltx

I still hope BPDw will regret what she's done to me.  And, it isn't a total fantasy - because she does sometimes.  I used to hope that she would change, but that hope has faded.

I've pretty much given up on that subject, but not entirely. I'm at the 'here's a list of things I won't live with' stage.

1. Which fantasies?

That she will regret what she's done to me.

2. How strong are these fantasies?

2.5

3. How is the fantasy impacting my life?

Mild happiness.  It serves as a distraction from the pain of leaving a woman I still love. It may be slowing me slightly, but not much. And frankly, crying uncontrollably in my office wasn't speeding things up.  Fantasies are cheaper than heroin.

4. What steps?

I read the leaving, staying, and undecided boards, and the divorce boards, read a bunch of books on personality disorders and abusive relationships, and read through a fair number of academic papers on BPD and associated topics.

Reality is gray - she'll never regret the way I would, but she already occasionally regrets her behavior and apologizes.

For the change portion, I've outlined a set of changes in behavior I'd need to stay and asked her to read through them.  As she hasn't yet - I'm pretty sure I have my answer.

--Argyle

Results to date:

The other person admits his/her errors and the way he/she has hurt you and makes amends. 18.3%

The person suffers because of what was done to you. 11%

You are able to outperform the person who has hurt you and can rub his/her nose in your superiority. 7.6%

Everyone around him sees him or her as you do and rejects him or her.    11.8%

You are vindicated.  12.9%

You are able to do to the person who hurt you what he or she did to you, or someone else does that to the person. 4.2%

The person will change and regret what he or she did or said.    19%

Other: please specify in your comment.    2.3%

I used to hold one or more fantasies like this, but I have let them go.  11.4%

I do not have any fantasies like this.   1.5%

   

So that's 98.5% who hold or have held this type of fantasy. Any thoughts on that and the breakdown statistics?

My fantasy:  Everyone around him sees him as I do and rejects him.

It doesn’t necessarily impact on my day to day life – however I do get caught up in the ruminations sometimes. I just figure it will catch up with him at some stage - the new GF will figure it out all on her own.


I have these moments only fleetingly now – I don’t wish him harm however I still get angry about what happened – I would have to be honest and say that I am more angry at myself for allowing it, not seeing it before it was too late, validating him only to be devalued later, that my family had no clue.

What I have done to rid myself of the fantasy – I wrote a post for this very purpose – to see the r/s for what it is. It helped enormously to write it all down and I read it often:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=156053.0

I have done a heap of work on the fantasy of the r/s as opposed to the reality – I guess this is why I have come to a place of acceptance – in that HE is who he IS – the good and the bad. It was an illusion for us both – in different ways though – I am capable of moving past it – he is not, without intense therapy.

I also had a chat with his ex before me – validation to the MAX!

Now I think about it less – I am dealing with my own sordid past – alcoholic uBPD father.

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

Fantasies ... .they are different at different times, but here are a few:

That he would really be there for me, that he would emotionally support me as I have supported him. 

That he would be interested in who I really am and love me for who I am. 

That he would not use me. 

That he would apologize. And really mean it.

That he would realize how cruel he can be and feel badly about the ways in which he hurts me.

That he would act like a normal person in a loving adult relationship instead of an entitled, angry, demanding teenager.

That I could go back in time to the beginning just to feel that way again.

That I could go back in time and erase ALL of it.

That he would actually be able to heal.

That I could rely upon him.

That he would be consistently kind and compassionate.

That he would not lie. 

That there would come a time when I wasn't either holding my breath, waiting for the next shoe to drop OR miserably trying to jump through impossible hoops to make things "okay."

One of my favorite quotes (I believe the author is Saul Belloe?) is as follows:

"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

I think my biggest fantasy now is to get to a place where I do not feel so sad about everything with him, and to a place where I absolutely 100% know that I will not go back.  Ever.

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

Well, I listed a lot of fantasies and they are kind of all over the board ... .but truly, the last one I wrote (getting to a place where I do not feel so sad about everything and know 100% I will not go back) is the biggest fantasy that I have today.   Because I do intellectually know that all of the other things I wrote are TRULY fantasies -- ones that will never come true.  And to prolong the pain is masochistic.  I ended things for what I hope is the last time two nights ago.  We've been together about a year. 

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

Well, I certainly am doing a lot of thinking.  I think one of the reasons I feel so sad is because I feel like I am finally "getting it" -- that the fantasies will never happen.  Ever.  And even though I should have realized that a while ago, and perhaps on some level I did, I feel like something has clicked in my brain recently that just made me think -- this will never, ever, ever be what you want it to be.  You will be miserable.  This cannot, in any way, shape or form, be at all good for you.  It will destroy you.  And yet, leaving it - leaving him - is just so unbelievably painful and sad.  I just feel so sad. 

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

Therapy, journal writing, lots of thinking, talking to my mom, reading BPD books and reading many, many posts on this site and writing on this site.  All of these have helped.  A lot. 

Allbewell,

I've been hanging out in this territory too lately. It does seem to take time to get there. Yes, it would destroy us and we are more important than the fantasy of them.

I had my first cold-blooded murder fantasy today--where I didn't even feel remorse after.  It subsided and I congratulated myself on it.

Diotima

I can't speak from the perspective of an SO of a pwpd, but I can speak from the view of a child of a pwpd. I think it is completely normal and expected that you have one or more of these fantasies about your parent. As kids, our parents are our heroes. It is a terrible realization that your "hero" is actually a broken shell who you cannot count on in any way. It is an Earth shattering realization. I think it is natural for the child to have fanatisies that things could be different -- SHOULD be different. That the parent(s) will change, be better parent(s), and/or at least acknowledge the hurt they have inflicted on the one person they were supposed to nurture and protect.

Part of the growing up, moving on, and preventing it from spreading to the next generation is for the child to realize that these fantasies are just that -- fantasies. They don't have a basis in reality. The child needs to learn to take personal responsiblity for where they are in their life now (as an adult) and work to better themselves. DESPITE what their parent(s) have done to them.

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

Mostly that he realizes how much I loved him... .and how much this hurts.  How I would have given up everything I have to be with him... .if he just asked me to.

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

5

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

It's destroying me and my self-respect.


4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

About two weeks ago... .I bought some alcohol and tylenol.  I was thinking that if i can't stop the thoughts, I'd stop living.  In the end... .I couldn't kill myself because I couldn't do that to my daughters.

I'm in therapy.  It's not helping all that much because I agree while we are in therapy... .then I get reminders throughout the week.

I do art journaling, writing... .etc... .and sometimes I'm okay... .but sometimes I just am so very depressed that I get stuck in a spin-cycle.

He wasn't even all that great looking... .he just was that damn charming and like me, loved literature and philosophy.  He was an enigma wrapped up in a riddle shrouded in mystery.  He gave a LOT of beautiful, heartfelt stuff... .but he gave a lot of garbage too.  When he was depressed... .he was an empty jar with a crack in it.  No matter how much I tried to fill him up... .he would discount it.  And he would repeat the same, pathetic lines over and over again.

And he could be so cold and cruel.

And he might be bipolar too.  I just read that bipolar individuals act very immature and very selfish at times.  For a 50 year old, I felt like I was often dealing with a child.  And blamed his parents for how he turned out.

I never met someone older than myself that did NOT know how to take care of themselves and did this to people.  I thought this behavior was the stuff of adolescents.   I guess I was wrong.


I feel like I've been infected with some sort of virus that ate away my soul.  I'm now a shadow of my former self.

Beatrice,

I see that you are new here and that may mean you are at the beginning of the grieving process.


This is how I felt too at the beginning--like I'd never start climbing out of it. You will but it will be a process of learning to care for yourself. Meditation has helped me start to reclaim myself. I recommend it. One of the things that helps a LOT is dancing lessons (couples). One has to really be in the present and I forced myself to go--now I look forward to it.

One day at a time. I drank a lot at the beginning too. Gotta be careful that doesn't get out of hand.

Take good care of yourself and read about this. There are a lot of good articles on this website.

Diotima xoxo

Beatrice - 

I felt that way too.  I had a full blown crisis in December of last year.  I entered therapy and that helped.  I have been posting and reading here too - that helps.  It takes time but you WILL feel better.   xoxo

Have you tried medication?  You might need something mild for a short period of time to help you get over this hump. 

You have been treated badly - it sounds like very badly - and it is going to take time to grieve and heal but it will get better. 

Yes,I do have fantasies.The sick thing is that most ofthem have to do with him coming to his senses and realizing what a good thing he had in me and begging me to forgive him and take him back. There are days that my heart is so heavy with grief because he threw me away so easily.I wrote to him over three weeks ago after he told me that I was too serious about him and that he doesn't feel the same way about me and he has not responded.I told him in that email that I was moving on,that there were other men out there that would appreciate me but truth is I wrote that so that he wouldn't believe that I was pining away over him and the awful thruth is that I DON'T believe anyone will want to be with me.I fantacize everyday that that will be the day that he understands his mistakes and how much he hurt me and will at least try to make ammends.Heck,I fantacize that at the very least he would wake up one day and miss the friend that I was to him.It has been about three weeks since he emailed me and there are times that I check my email several times a day hoping(yes,fantacizing)that there will be an email from him.But it never happens.I know that I have to stop fantacizing and hoping for something that will never happen.The rational side of me knows that even as I am writing this post,that he has already found someone to ease his pain-someone that he is very excited about,just like he was with me in the beginning.It hurts like hell and it makes me jealous.Tears are springing to my eyes as I type this post but even the tears don't make my fantasy a reality.Heck,I wasn't even recycleable to this person so I feel like a true loser>

Hmm, I noticed that my fantasies have changed! I used to want him to come to his senses, etc. Now my fantasies are rather nasty.  I don't want him back at all. Hooray! I've turned a corner. However, I have not got to the corner of forgiveness by any means. I am enjoying my evil fantasies--but I am thinking about him a bit less too--when I am not having evil fantasies. We'll see what happens. it is a learning experience to say the least.

Diotima

For the breakdown statistics, I'd divide them into:

BPD changes: 50%

BPD suffers: 35%

None of the above: 15%

I'd be interested to see how the statistics vary between people still in R/S with BPD and people not still in R/S.  I'm going to bet an imaginary quarter that there's a big, and expected, correlation.

--Argyle

this was very useful.

i've had almost all of those fantasies at some point, some longer lasting than others. i don't think i ever quite ruminated over them, maybe early on to soothe pain. i went through fantasies of her returning, fantasies of vindication, fantasies of those around her seeing her for what she is, i wouldn't say i wished suffering on her, but i definitely wished she'd go downhill. partly so i'd feel vindicated, partially so i could believe it was related to me, and partially because she has to before she'll get help anyway. i had lots of fantasies related to me recovering and getting better. i don't think that was counter productive. i never wanted to rub her nose in it, but i wanted her to see it. still do.

thing is, most of this has come true. she's spiraled downward. she's had blowups and falling outs now with each of her best friends. she's gone totally out of her mind, and caused some episodes she wouldn't have ever caused with me. everything just blew up for her. everyone got it immediately. and yeah, i do feel vindicated. but mostly i just feel sorry. no, i don't want to help her. but i can't take any pride in seeing what i've seen or knowing what i know. it's sad. it never had to be.

i think the thing that kept me stuck the longest was wanting some proof that i mattered (even though i believed and still believe i did, to the extent one can) and believing that she would reengage at some point. she hasn't yet. she still might. but these days, i'd say im 95% to the point of preferring i never hear from her again. i certainly don't cling to it, and im no longer as certain it will happen. for a few months, it kept me feeling like i was still in the game. i don't regret it. i needed to believe it to survive, at the time. i got past it as i figured i would. i've come a ways.

Yes my  ex was self-absorbed, everything was about her, and near the end she wanted nothing to do with my needs, helping me with anything like the computer, or school stuff.

I know all about her wants, interests, and attempted to do those things, and tried even more when it was going south. Thinking that I should. 

And I do wish she would recognize and change, but she hasn't so far and probably is not going to... .difficult to radically accept this and go on.

Yes I have the money thing to... how can they see you tell you how beautiful you are, and not think s__t I owe her money... .or there's the person who packed my things so considerately, helped me move my boxes, cared for me when I had no money.

Yes letting go of the hope that she will get better, seeing her drunk and acting like a junior high kid made me think, hmmm... .it's not happening any time soon I guess

thing is, most of this has come true. she's spiraled downward. she's had blowups and falling outs now with each of her best friends. she's gone totally out of her mind, and caused some episodes she wouldn't have ever caused with me. everything just blew up for her. everyone got it immediately. and yeah, i do feel vindicated. but mostly i just feel sorry. no, i don't want to help her. but i can't take any pride in seeing what i've seen or knowing what i know. it's sad. it never had to be.

Hi Luckystrikes- nice to speak with you again, yes when I saw her last weekend drunk and alone and hollering things out at me, I remember thinking, I might have enabled her to stay with me too long without paying rent, but I also might have provided her with her most stable environment. She also withdrew from 3 of our friends and told one by facebook in August she has no friends in Chicago. I was always kind to her and her problems in life, with work, and her family.  But i agree it is sad to see her spiraling down, and I get no vindication when friends of mine call her a loser. I always wanted her well-being. What I work on with my therapist now, is that I can not make her happy, I can not fix her, she will have to dig down deep and want that for herself and thus far, it appears that is something she is incapable of doing, introspection and self-reflection. So I remember one poster say "A BPD has a right to live their life as they wish, and I can not control the outcome." I am trying to picture her in a visualization wrapped in light and held close to someone who will nurture her, not me mind you, but someone.

seems to me most people want some form of vindication in knowing they're the sane one and their partner is not, and/or validation from their ex. not surprising. not surprising either that so many on this board seem to have come from homes with one or both parents invalidating, or not validating. i think it's good, and telling, that fantasies of forms of revenge are on the lower side. not sure if hoping they change is for selfish or unselfish purposes, but its productive at least. i just wish it was easier for all of us to find that vindication and validation in ourselves. but our partners morphing like they did is just so contrary to everything we know to be normal and rational. its no wonder it shakes us like it does.

edit: okay, i thought the updated results had lower levels of vengeful fantasies. i guess they're not that small a number 

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

Mostly that there will be a day that he realizes how completely mentally ill he is and gets help and in that process realizes how much he hurt me and apologizes sincerely for the things he did specifically.

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

probably around like a 1.5 to 2?

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

I suppose it impacts me because it creates a tiny bit of hope but i don't really notice it affecting my life in a profound way or on a daily basis, it just feels like i need to get further out and have more distance and detachment.

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

counseling helped so much to accept things that happened that now I don't ruminate over but mostly just moving on with my life is helping immensly.

Yes it did Sea. She is sick. It did have to be that way. Right?

 Great thread! Thank you B& W for starting it |iiii


In the beginning my fantasy was that he would go to therapy and with a lot of work my marriage would work. Prior to his blindsiding of leaving with an email and disappearing I thought he had turned the corner as he had said he wanted to go to therapy re: his childhood issues and wanted the marriage to work... As I was with him for 10 years and he was very high functioning, I thought it was realistic (lol) that he would not want to destroy his life, and would get help... He had a mental breakdown at the end & as I saw how really ill & fragmented he was I realized it would never work for me, even with therapy... As my T. said he would need intensive therapy, which entails a lot of work & no guarantees... ie:

I hung onto the "therapy fantasy" for prob. 6-8 months. In hindsight, I held onto this fantasy way too long, in part because both of us are health care professionals.

I remember that moment of true acceptance, of clarity, of how sick he really was & my feelings that the betrayal of trust was too great for me... It was devastating & I became very depressed.

The anger fantasies were empowering & helped me move forward, out of the depression.

Working thru grief is a gradual process. Its 4 yrs since my divorce and it took about 2.5 yrs for recovery.  I have no fantasies now. Now, I see its all for the best that it is over |iiii In hindsight would have just accepted the loss, instead of fighting it so much with the fantasy... For me its been a very valuable lesson that can be applied to life in general...

For years I have worked toward making the fantasy of a great mother/daughter relationship come true.  Instead my ignorance/denial of my daughter having any disorder kept me enabling her BPD behaviors. I walked on eggshells hoping that she would change.  With the help of a therapist and reading about the BPD I realize that my daughter really has a personality disorder.  It is a relief and helpful to understand I need to let her go emotionally and temporalily (I hope) not try to be a part of her life. 

fantacys?

i use to along time ago i mean many years ago was in denial, but then snapped out of it i read alot of help books and books about BPD, after going to therapy and relizing there was a problem.  and my husband had i beleived BPD.

  i fially came to accept what is is what is, and learned to deal with the problem not be a victum all the time.  learning ways to communicate and learning to use the tools given me. I knew being weak wasn't the answer, so i did what it took to become stronger mentally. i came to accept the only one i can change is me, i couldnt' change him so that is what i did.

Yes and I could see it clearly when I saw her 10 days ago... .

That my uexBPD moves out of the country never to be heard from again.

INSTRUCTIONS: Take the poll and comment below, addressing these questions and adding any other comments:

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?  Basic human nature is to play out scenarios in our minds of how we want things to turn out.  As we go through the process of letting go and moving on, I have found these mind scenarios are less frequent to almost non-existent. 

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations) - I am at a 1 and working on 0.

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life? - N/A

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact? 

The day after the STBXh left I had a moment of truth, and realized I had allowed him to hold me down emotionally, mentally, physically and spiritually.

Here is the list of my plan:

-I started writing a contract to myself of what I would not allow in my life that was unhealthy, it is an ongoing work in progress. 

- "    "     walking every day, up to 2 miles a day, would like to get to 3 miles daily, and stop at the gym in my neighborhood and do the stairmaster/eliptical.

-Eating smaller portions and making healthier choices.  No sweets, no sodas, no sugar.  I feel 100% better.  Some evenings I do not eat supper, just a healthy snack.

-Changing my thinking to being positive, if someone is rude or cuts me off in traffic, taking pause to try to see the world throught their eyes.  We never know what someone is stuggling with at any given moment.

-Continuing my sessions with my T, and her telling me she thought I was doing well and did not need her services.   :)

-Waking up early, spending time alone with God reading my Bible and praying.

Will be starting a Divorce Care womens group in January, to reinforce what I have learned on this Board and from so many of you, to not make the same mistake!

I got to a place where I realize I did not make my stbxh this way and I cannot fix it.  He is responsible for his choices and the consequences from his bad choices.  I feel free, peaceful and that my life is once again joyful.

MaK

1. I wish for nothing more than for him to pick up the phone and call me, just so that I can hear his voice. He ended the relationship almost 3 months ago (Christmas Day = 3 months, I know  ?). I think about him every single day. I feel so abandoned by him, and what makes matters worse is that he lives 12 hours away from me, and I have no way of running into him. I dream about hearing his voice, or sharing one more intimate moment, so that maybe, just maybe, he will feel the way he used to feel about me and want me back. I don't necessarily want him to feel the pain I feel, but I fantasize that he sits in his office daydreaming about me, or goes to bed at night wishing I were with him. The sad part is that I know he is not, and it kills me.

2. 3.5. Refer above. I am devastated, and no matter how hard I try, I can't get him out of my mind. I continuously think about him... .from morning until night, no matter where I am or no matter what I am doing.

3. I am an attorney and will lose my job if I don't get my work done, so I am forced to function. That is the sad part. FORCED TO FUNCTION. I still exercise regularly, go out with friends on weekends, etc... .but when I work out and when I go out with friends, I think about him. I see couples while I am out and am saddened by the thought that him and I used to be that couple. Everyone wanted to be us. All of my friends wanted to have a man like him in their lives.

4. I am doing my best to keep busy, am speaking with friends and joined this website a few months ago. I am signing up for a half marathon that will take place in May, and am doing my best to take more classes at the gym as opposed to working out alone. I am taking on more responsibilities at work so that my mind can be consumed with work-related tasks as opposed to thinking about him. I have considered therapy, seeing as I feel in my heart that I am thinking about him too much at this stage, but I am hoping that in time, it will all become easier.

The whole wonderfulness of finding this site and these Boards is that this information has helped me "catch" my magical thinking and end it.  I used to think that he felt like me.  He doesn't.  I used to think that if we entered therapy, he would learn, and want to change.  Wrong again.  I used to think that he meant the words he says.  Now I know that even if he thinks that he means them, his actions will always speak much greater truth. And the truth is that he can't, or won't, meet me halfway in a r/s.  Simply not gonna happen. 

I am replacing my magical thinking with real, excited, forward thinking.  Where am I going to live?  how am I gong to be?  What will it feel like to be really free? |iiii

i also wonder and dream and because I think she is probably coming into town for Christmas I swear to god, I drove by starbucks and I thought this person was her, the same blonde hair cut, it wasn't, then I saw her mom, I thought, an old lady walking slowly with the same overly died old lady hairdo and it wasn't. FREACKED ME THE FRIG OUT! Is this fore shadowing, I have had two dreams in the last month, one of seeing her mom and saying "Hi how are you, I've missed you are you doing alright?" and the other some blurry encounter with the ex.   Haven't dreamed about her in months, it's just us detoxing off of the cruelty and suddeness of their departure. When she left for a job I had no idea we were dissolving our relationship. When I saw her brother and sister-in-law at her bon voyage dinner I had no idea I would never see her family again... .harsh, unfair, and I was forced to function also. It has gotten better in the last 5 months but apparently it will hit from time to time. Hang in there I'm right there witth you. Sea

The only realistic fantasy I ever had about my ex is that I would get one more chance at "the last word" and rip him to shreds, being the waif that he is, I could really make him a victim. That passed.

Then, there was the unrealistic fantasy I had, that I still sometimes enjoy envisioning, is that I (or some errant tractor trailer) run over both he and my replacement and leave them flat on the road. It just makes me smirk every time I try to picture it.

The funny thing is, even if he changed via therapy and became healed, I still would not have him back. I know we say they are empty shells, but there is still some type of human nature there, some type of personality, and I just don't much like the one he has. I'm thinking I never really loved this person, but I only wanted to because he was so handsome, so highly educated, and fit everything I thought I wanted (I know, mirror, mirror on the wall).

I guess I am one of the lucky few.

M

1. Which fantasies do [did] you have, if any?

The 'love of my life' was before my marriage. No need to detail why it didn't persist, but when things would be going not well since then, and during the marriage, I'd wonder about her and wonder if she regretted anything and what might happen if we were each unattached at the same time, etc.

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

1... .passing thoughts, maybe every few months for a couple of decades

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

It's not now, but at one time it could have kept me from considering a wider range of options. When there's a name and a face, it can represent hope... .hope for an idealized relationship. Real people don't stack up to that, and it can keep one from even looking.

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

It didn't seem right to make any contact while still married, so I waited till settlement was reached. Phone numbers are easy to find these days, so I called her just this week. She said I coulda knocked her over with a feather when caller ID showed up. We talked about 30 min. She sounded, appropriately enough, older. I probably did, too. She's married ten years, and brought me up to date on all the elements of her life and any loose ends from before. I didn't talk much except to brag on D. At one point she commented on how surprisingly easy it was to talk to me after all the time and events. At another she commented on the courage it must have taken for me to make the call. It actually wasn't any big deal--no sweaty palms or knot in stomach--but I let it go without comment. ':)on't complain, don't explain.' In the end I feel good for having faced it without drama and dismissed it so it's not hanging over my head keeping me from considering new options.

2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

3

3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

I usually have them before I go to sleep and it can keep me away

4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

Not really. I am just doing my own life now. I know these will pass.

1. Which fantasies do you have, if any?

None. Used to have but was able to let go of them.


2. How strong are those fantasies, on a scale of 1-5 (1 = passing thoughts; 5 = continual ruminations)

Initially very strong as i was in denial.



3. How is the fantasy impacting your life?

It had no impact that i could see myself at the time, if any impact was to be had then my thoughts were - 'if i let go of the hope then i let go of the ex', which i didnt want to do at the time.


4. If you've taken steps to rid yourself of the fantasy, what have you done and what has been the impact?

My steps to rid myself of the hope were not the best way of doing it so probably not the best person to answer this question in helping others.

The only thing i can say to help is 'try and let go of the fantasies', i didnt and i didnt for too many years!

Is it really fantasy? or is it hope we cling to?

Are fantasy and hope of the same nature?

Fantasy is something you want but cant really have?

Hope is something you want and can have?

I think from the dumped perspective we will live for the fantasy/hope in that things will get better for us. im sure initially we all hope to rectify our loss by wanting what was lost, Just the same as if you lost a sentimental item of jewellery, you would make the effort in the hope of re-finding it.

Just reading that last paragraph, what stands out to me is that... .

We will look for, hope for, want for the return of something that was once special to us.

Whether that be somenthing of a material nature or a person, no matter if there was pain involved, we will want what we thought was ours and what we loved.

But over time, if you dont find that lost item, even though you keep looking for it, eventually you will give up looking for it, lose hope, lose the fantasy, care less for the return of said loss.

It boils down to our emotional attachment, yes? or rather how we emotionally detach?

The best revenge is to have a better life disspite the one that hurt me...

  That use to be one of my mantras. Yea I had the superiority thing going on. Problem was I didn't really know how to live a better life. I had thought that if I held a good job, paid my bills and had overall stability I was living a better life. I had always dated alcoholics or, looking back now, people with PDs, so living what I thought was a better life wasn't all that hard. My fantasies included meeting someone stable and having this better life just for spite. I had no real foundation to make this happen. I was codependent me.

  Every new relationship ended up with me doing way more than i should and then becoming resentful. My expectations were too high. I behave perfectly, why can't you? I took everything personally and that made for difficult situations in relationships. Any relationship, not just the romantic ones.

  Those fantasies went away when I seriously turned the focus to my own self awareness. Therapy, coming here reading and posting, reading books on my issues (codependence/perfectionism/negative self talk), positive affirmations and truely practicing all my new skills. I want to be a better person for me. I've let go of living better out of anger to live a more realistic, mindful, peaceful life.

It was interesting to read this, as I'm having a weak night tonight.  I'm not well (flu) and feeling low, plus Friday night was always his night to come down and stay for the weekend.

Most of the time I'm pretty acceptant of things, but it's early days, and I do have days like today when I wish it was all a mistake, and that somehow there's another explanation or something that can be fixed, and I can have the man I love back.  I still feel quite confused at times about where it went wrong and when his illness started, and I still struggle to get my head around how he's not missing all the things that I do.  I understand that's part of the condition, but it's hard to imagine feeling like that.

My ex seemed a lot less affected by his conditions that some people on here.  Clearly it was still enough to ruin a relationship, though.

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I suppose I still hold on to the fantasy that she can, and will, deal with her issues and start to lead an emotionally healthier life. The results of this fantasy (which are more fantastical) are that she looks back on the r/s and appreciates what I did and/or we can actually get along.

My fantasies are mostly on my being happy with someone else, at a party. She starts talking as if nothing happened, while I can say, do I know you? You seem to look like someone I know, but that was a someone nice... .I think... .I'll get a drink now. Preferably turning around and asking someone who trully loves me, what she wants, given her a kiss and getting out of the place.

Or version two... .We start a minor discussion ending with me giving a business card (she wants to be better than I am) simply stating my name with below it "Happy"... .

She will never ever be the one I want. She will not persue the carreer I want to see my girl doing, nor the have the kindness and sweetness of the gentle lover I want. She was a mistake. I trully hope someday, someone will take her down and her issues she is causing will be the cause of it.  Even if it is only that I can say, no xperience with that sh#t. Sorry... .

I used to fanticize/hope/wish that she would "wake up" one day and be the person I met and fell in love with... .that the other raging person just disappeared and never came back. I use to wish she would fully realize the extent she has hurt me, apologize, make REAL amends, and actually make changes that last. A FEW times I have thought "I wish I could show her just once exactly what she does to me" but I knew I could never do that because I don't treat people the way she did me and I could not even force myself to do so. I felt bad just having that brief thought!

I don't ruminate much anymore, but I do try and talk about her as if she didn't do some of the inappropriate things in the end, I don't like thinking someone I invested in is like that. My friend always keeps me in line saying " It sounds like you're trying to blame the other guy, and giving your ex a hall pass. She's just as culpable for involvement in what happened".  So my mind still doesn't feel comfortable saying she was bad for me, and to me. Still trying to dress it up, must be a survival mechanism... .weird.

Six months or more ago, I would have ticked a couple of those boxes. I have let them go. I wish both my ex and the children the best. The reality is, I was filled with a flawed purpose of trying to save her and help her, which put a distance between me and my own reality.

"Everyone around him sees him or her as you do and rejects him or her."

rather

"Everyone around him sees him or her as you do and realizes what you went through" suits me better.

Well, I used to have a few of these fantasies and they have gradually disappeared. I used to hope that he would see the light. lol I just don't any more. If I think of him it is more that I hope those he hooks up with see it sooner than I did and exit.

Diotima

I don't want to go back to the life I had with my BPDh. With 21 days no contact I am just now realizing how the stress, criticism and rage took it's toll. Not to mention the physical abuse.

But... .I do hold on to this fantasy that he will see the error of his ways, admit he was irrational and mean, apologize and ask to make amends.

I get that this is a fantasy so the impact of this fantasy on my life is minimal. I'm certainly not holding my breath while I wait for this to happen. On a scale of 1-5 I'd rate this a 1. It's just a dream really.

it's funny, but after reading the fantasies list, i realized that none of them really apply in full to me. when i think about revenge, it makes me sad. i don't want him to hurt anymore. i guess i don't want him satisfied with his new love either, but i guess i just want status quo for him. maybe a slight fantasy would be for his new love to bring these points to his attention one day so that i'm somehow validated. then again, maybe his ex-wife of 16 years and i and this new woman will cumulatively help him realize his wrongdoing. when i think about him admitting to his ways and making amends, i realize i had that fantasy while with him and in reality he could never admit to them. why fantasize about them now when i know it would never be a reality. i have to give him to God and let Him deal with him. yesterday was a tough day for me, but i know he is truly out of my hands. my wish is to move on and live the rest of my life in truth.

I chose I use to have fantasies like all of those, but I had to let them go.

He can never be what I need, but it doesnt mean he is at fault for everything.  I played my own role.

If I believe it was all him, then I am using the same black and white thinking that he used.

I ticked "Other" as well as three more.

My "other" is a couple of things:

a) this is all a horrible dream and I'll wake up and she'll be next to me, just like the good old days, and none of this really happened.  She was the sweet girl I used to call mine.

b) She'll wake up one morning, realise she's had a complete nervous breakdown and wonder where I am, and who the new girl in bed next to her is.  Then she'll think "Oh God, what have I done?" and call me up, back to her sweet, loving self, and we will carry on and forget this weird blip ever happened.

*sigh*

I went for two choices: she admits and she regrets. Those two because they mean she has grown and also has a future. That can not be a future with me, because... .   well that's not so difficult to understand.

I don't want to see her hurt of been done wrong in any way. I don't believe in revenge. It only brings the revengetaker down.


After reading mango_flowers post I would go for that two options too, allthough I would raise my eyebrows a tiny bit if she woke up with a girl next to her.

I used to have revenge fantasies but they ended a long time ago.

The fantasy that still lingers is the fantasy that she would 'get it' and in truth, I do see she's done her best. That she has suffered more than I ever realized. That the fantasy of her loving and being satisfied with another man, is obviously false and it's never happened and to her credit she's never even bothered lying about it.

I'm accepting that she's never really been one to lie, and each time she's hurt me, she's hurt herself much worse.

That she never benefited from hurting me and that as ill as it makes me to say it... .   I put her on a pedestal and still do. I see her as this powerful, sexy secure woman when in fact, clearly she's tortured, afraid of sleeping around and walks around with guilt and shame that is so powerful, she can't dare to even look at it.

There is no 'revenge' but in all honesty, even with all the above being stated... .   I'm still vulnerable to believing her teflon exteriour and the idea of her being with someone else and doing what she does best... . making that man feel like the king... .   truly makes me want to projectile vomit.

(I still have a bit of healing to do.  )

I still have the faintest fantasy that she will "wake up" as well. I wish that she'd realize that she has treated me like garbage throughout the entire breakup process since she decided to walk out and paint me black for good. I wish she'd remember what she put me through with her alcoholism and emotional lability and that some of my bad moments were cultivated by her crazy making behavior. I wish she'd realize she should talk to me like a human being and not some wanted criminal. I wish that the new guy she wasted no time in idealizing would dump her immediately so she'd see just how much I put up with over the course of a year. I wish she was capable of truly, maturely loving me.

They were unable to truly love us from the beginning. We just didn't seem to notice it. Then again, I noticed her open the front door and walk away without greeting me. I noticed a lack of common manners when it came to meal times or visits. I noticed she spoke about other partners when we were intimate. I noticed she could not trust me and broke up, only to entertain another guy. I noticed she could not give me a straight answer. I noticed her sit in silence and look away instead of communicate. These things once at the surface, were front and centre but I stayed and copped the ending of her choice. She just got married and it has started the ruminating again. I have dealt with a lot but still lapse into believing that she is healthy and her revenge is sweet. Why do I still buy into her script?

I ticked 'Other' because I would just really love him to get major (genuine, sincere, co-operated with) therapy and realise that it is not inevitable that he hurts people - he knows at some level that something is wrong, but not what it is. And he seems to feel he is simply doomed, destined, always to hurt those he cares for.

And he does.

So I would like him to genuinely accept he needs help, and to work honestly with a therapist specialising in Cluster B disorders, take meds compliantly, and over a period of years, maybe lifelong, work to become a healthy-minded individual who can have a loving, fulfilling relationship, one in which he is not constantly guilty, ashamed, lashing out, angry, jealous, controlling, evaise, lying, cheating and all the other things.

It's not likely, I know... .but that is my fantasy dream for what I would like to happen for my ex.

Oh, and I'd also like him never to contact my replacement again, because it's still recent and I mind like hell that I've been replaced, until I go through my rational logical step-by-step process to get it into my mind that she means no more to him than I did. But, y'know, waking at 3am crying, it's still "I mind like hell, he loves her more, she's better than me, I'm such a failure". But then I go through the logic, remind myself that the only person who thinks I'm so vulnerable and fragile and not coping is HIM, and that I am strong and beautiful and intelligent - by that stage, I'm ok with the New Victim's presence in his life because I know she means no more to him than I did and he'll move on soon enough from her to the Next Victim after her... .poor woman... .

I'd love him to get better, get healthy.

But why would he? He has an endless supply of victims ready to believe he's their soulmate because they don't know about mirroring; and an endless supply of Facebook-friends who think he's the wittiest, smartest, coolest man on the planet.

I lived in fantasy world for years hoping he would not just have insight about his behaviour (which he actually did have quite often) but would use that insight to change and stay in a healthier relationship with me.  Of course, I was conveniently ignoring the fact that I was also having insights about his behaviour (and my reactions) and instead of using that insight to change a pattern of repeatedly returning to a dysfunctional relationship, I stuck to the pattern! 

Occasionally, I had 'revenge' fantasies though I used them to make me laugh diabolically   - I wouldn't wish him to be hurt in real life.  These were definitely fantasies whereas the ones above were more 'hopes.  I'd say I've pretty much moved on from fantasies though it's been hard to let go of the hope.

I used to dream about scenarios where he would be full of remorse and tell me what I wanted to hear and we'd 'live healthily ever after'.  I still dream a lot about this but now in the dream I am thinking "I don't believe anything will change" and so I don't re-engage.  I hate dreaming about him (am going through a phase of dreaming about him every night a year on from our last break-up) but at least the dreams are more of a reflection of reality than fantasy.  Progress  :)

I answered yes to 90 % of questions. For me 3 months out they are just passing thoughts now. However, I do not actively try to think about them they all of a sudden come to my consciousness.   out of nowhere. I think it is natural and part of the healing process not hindering it. I believe there is an innate need for justice in all of us when we are severely wronged. To deny ourselves those thoughts is just repression. Acting on them or going on for prolonged periods of time is not healthy but are natural in the beginning. They were at a 5 in the beginning and are slowly subsiding and now are at a 1 as a passing thought.

this one is very strong. i was raised by a paranoiac parent, who had to be right about everything and if there was nothing wrong would make things up and then assert, in quite abusive tones, that she was right about her opinions about these fantasies. evidence would only make her backpedal, and her trump card was to say that there must be something wrong with me if i was upset. this from the time of my earliest memories. i still cannot, to this day, understand that a person may not be able to say "i see what i did and i'm sorry."


my w was only able to bolt because she received counsel and opportunity to do so and the only way that could have happened is if she lied about the texture of our marriage. truth for her, a BPD, but lying by any objective standard of measure. i want to the point of craving for the others she has involved in this to know the score. but they won't.

That my daughter will have a revelation of all the was she has hurt me see her distortions admit her lies and make amends. I am seeing more clearly now they are all very real to her and have began to expect them less

 :check: Other: please specify in your comment.

What if... these are NOT fantasies, even though they were initially part of my fantasy thinking?


 :check: The other person admits his/her errors and the way he/she has hurt you and makes amends.
 :check: The person will change and regret what he or she did or said.

1 & 2.  The person admitting their errors was a passing thought for me, as I had figured out that they were oblivious to doing the wrongs that they did, and I would not get an apology from my pwBPD on this.  However, the person will change and regret what they did was a big fantasy of mine, as I know in my heart of hearts that her heart was in the right place, and if she was self-aware, she would make that change happen.

3.  Admitting her wrongs, really didn't affect me too much, other than being disappointed she could not see the damage she was doing; however, my pwBPD not being able to see the error of her ways, not being self-aware, really hurt me as she was blind to the damage she was doing.

4.  I thought long and hard about how to make my pwBPD become self-aware of her behaviors - here is how I did it: 

She was in couple's therapy with me, and she had her own individual therapy, as did I. 

Initially I communicated with her individual therapist my concerns, and our couple's therapist too after I  learned about it for the past few months after my own therapist pretty much blurted out what I described was consistent with BPD in June of 2022.  At that time, both the couple's therapist and her individual therapist indicated they did not think she had BPD - this was September 2022.  I then proceeded to highlight each individual symptom, one per session in front of our couple's therapist.  At first, the couple's therapist ignored me... until she had personally witnessed a full textbook narcissistic abuse episode spanning two sessions a year ago in March of 2023 that is pretty much unique to Cluster-B PDs, and then the couple's therapist took copious notes each and every time my pwBPD exhibited a different symptom while 'in session'.  I am assuming since the couple's therapist and her individual therapist are in the same practice, they shared notes... as this is when progress really started - previously it was only anger management skills for her, which also was successful too.

About two months later, in May of 2023, my wife approached me and wanted to apologize for everything she had done wrong, as she had a very positive experience apologizing for things she had done in the previous two weeks - from the suddenness of this new found skill, I am assuming she acquired it from therapy.  Using an analogy, she had just learned how to climb a small mound, but wanted to tackle climbing Mount Everest.  After contemplating this overnight, I jumped at the opportunity of her making amends, and I asked her to first make a list of the wrongs I had done to her, as I wanted to lead by example.

To make a long story short, I did validate her feelings; however, I did not validate her false narrative towards me.  Then it was her turn to reciprocate, and I made a list of seven categories of wrongs, five of which she had already addressed, but not apologized for.  She acknowledged the thousands of abuses she had done, and apologized for them. 

She is also more self-aware than ever before, and is making meaningful progress at change.  She has expressed regret, even though I do not think it is sincere enough, but it is there, and I must accept that level of sincerity.  Her recovery is a process, and while I find it too slow, it is there, and she is getting better.

I know for most this will forever remain a fantasy; however, for me it has now become a reality.

The only way this was accomplished was to learn how my wife thinks and leverage her comorbidity of OCPD traits into addressing her BPD, and introduce tools to help her understand and become self-aware of her behaviors.  While some of her explanations on her apology were really 'out there' in a very disordered kind of way - she made the attempt to apologize and is continuing to change her ways.

I am wondering if anyone else has experienced their fantasy thinking become a reality?

Take care.

SD

Since there is no 'EDIT' button, I need to add that I also validated any real wrongs that I had done to her, like hiding money with the explanation of not making her aware of this money as it was earmarked for a divorce attorney retainer fee due to her ongoing and repeated threats of divorce.  She couldn't quite comprehend this, but accepted it.