BPDFamily.com

Cheating is very common behavior among BPDs which is something I have learned from reading case after case on this board.  Mine openly told me how she overtly cuckolded an exBF and cheated on her exH before and during the marriage. Remorse was no where to be found.  Great aphrodisiac material for me too let me tell you.

I also noted in mine's case that there would be instances where her lack of remorse or empathy for a particular occasion where such emotions are indicated was jaw dropping.  Yet, intellectually she knew and openly admitted that she does bad things and was dark/evil/wicked so she is cognizant.  

You're right BPD is a fascinating disorder to study.

I just cannot take the stress of trying to maintain a relationship with a BPD as they are just too bizarre, impulsive, disloyal, remorseless, and rage prone.  I have recently met someone else who I know is attracted to me with whom I am building rapport.  I also do not have to walk on eggshells.  She and my exBPDgf are incredibly similar in appearance, but this woman is normal.  She had the benefit of having grown up in a stable family, and my exBPDgf did not have that.  

If this new one goes anywhere for me, I'm sure my exBPDgf will try to take credit for it as such are her ways... .As avoidatallcost so eloquently stated "Their brains are disordered."

Regardless if they are married or in a long-term r/s they will cheat as they cannot attach (because of the disorder) to the r/s 'object' (husband, boyfriend) but still want to meet their intimacy needs.

If they get caught their ‘actress mode’ kicks in which enables them to find one million excuses and blame anybody else BUT themselves. For example, she will easily find fault on her new lover because he was so effective seducing her!

I also had experience with the cheating. Mine was more one the narcissistic side so she  "told me without telling me". At work I received a text that she still had feelings for some girl she fooled around with college previously. Those feelings were only sexual so it was OK.  lol

Told my family about this situation as they rightly told me head for the hills and never look back! This is what I've done and 2 years later it still isn't really easy.

Cheating is just part of the disorder, like explained here in some posts. And is there any remorse? NOPE! It's again part of the disorder and don't seem to care, but are we able to cheat... .HELL NO! We can't even look at another girl, even if it's family.  lol

And although I'm not proud of it, here's a example of how they think about cheating: Before it got really serious between us, we met often and I had sex with her while she was still with her boyfriend. It didn't feel right of course and I said to her: "Why are you doing this, this isn't right. You are still in a relationship. How would you find it if he cheats?". Her response: "I'm able to cheat and he's not allowed to. Only me! But no worries, I will never cheat on you. You are everything I need and I would be stupid to loose you for that.".red-flag

OP, I'm not sure if they don't have any remorse. They tend to justify it to themselves (much like other people do) in a way that makes you go 'what'? I posted it in a different thread, but I'll copypaste it below here with some slight adjustments:

----

I read a lot about BPDers who end up cheating. Funnily enough, me and my ex talked about cheating. She absolutely despised it. But. When she was in a relationship with her first boyfriend, she ended up cheating on him with a friend of mine (red-flag ). She made him swear to never tell anyone, but he told me the next day and he texted another friend right after the deed that he slept with her. I was an acquaintance of her at the time, we occasionally talked. To this day, she still doesn't know that I know that she cheated on her first boyfriend. She justified to my friend that her first boyfriend 'pushed her away' and 'was more busy with video games than me'.

I still remember her MSN status that she 'hated men'. As I said, I was an acquaintance at the time, and she struck up a conversation with me. Mind you this is like 4 years ago. She then told me she slept with someone but he had no feelings for her and just went about his way.

She never 'got' to my friend the way she did with other people (including me). He never fell for her tricks, and he warned me on many occasions not to fall for her. I didn't listen. I think because my friend was never caught in her web, she has an unhealthy obsession with him; she still carries a picture of the two of them in a photo booth from 4 years ago in her wallet. They never dated either, just slept together once I believe. And while he is my friend, he isn't good looking at all and he's had a rough life behind him with diseases and frequent hospital visits and everything. I think that's another reason why she liked him as much as she did. She can see how 'broken' he is.

They eventually had a falling out because he said something mean on one of her Facebook statuses where she complained about her ex who didn't know how he felt about her, so she removed him from her Facebook. She apparently still has him on Skype and he occasionally says something mean to her from what he told me, but that's about the extent of their current 'relationship'.

Oh, and from what I gathered from articles and so on, she is a BPD Waif through and through.

I guess what I was trying to say was: They cheat. Even if they say they hate it. I should also say that when she broke up with her ex over Christmas 2010 (before we dated), she slept with another acquaintance of mine when she was back home at her parents. When she moved back to her flat, she found out that her ex, whom SHE dumped, had lunch with one of her girlfriends. She FREAKED out at this. He had lunch with someone vs. her sleeping with someone, only a few days after they had 'broken up'.

Another thing is, when my ex and her ex were trying to reconcile their relationship early 2011, she was seeing someone else at the side too. He treated her like absolute dirt (calling her fat/ugly, urging her to go to the gym), but she kept coming back to him all the while she was trying to reconcile with her ex at the same time. Funny story. I'll leave it up to one of the more informed posters on this board to make sense of that... .

Mine would put a different spin on it every time the topic came up. I know she entertained at least three guys at her house during the early stages of our relationship. There was either an excuse, or she broke up with me, or she told me I broke up with her, or she needed her space or a totally hindsight based gaslight of the whole occurrence. The guy that slept in her bed obviously drove a huge wedge between us and the topic was raised from time to time during break ups. Once, she went quiet and agreed that it was wrong, almost admitting she cheated. Then, she tried to deflect. Other times she would ask why this needed to be brought up as it was in the past. I got no truthful answer but did get an incomplete confession. At the end of the relationship, I had no idea. She broke up and said it was for real over this time. That lasted five weeks and then she was back, this time controlling to the point of telling me what to do. She was very confident and alluring with me also. It was almost as if there was another party because she lost her inhibition. She then turned, became suicidal and melted down. I didn't see her again. Two years later, here I am.

Funny thing. My ex would cheat and excuse by saying she thought we had broken up. Seems they use any excuse no matter how weakness, to justify it. Then show no remorse

for doing so. Apparently pwBPD seek closeness without much scrutiny as in who the bed with.funny thing is that her current host, she would day how weird he is and unattractuve, but would always say how he inherited a lot of money.  I find that if a person always says they have lots of moneys, but don't appear to have a pot to piss in, is

Selling around their shortcomings in order to troll and land women until discovered. She is a go

ld digger by nature. Always hinting at paying her bills for her.

So much of these posts sound like my life it's a real eye opener.

I accepted a lot of her behaviors when we met because we were in college and college behaviors (socially and sexually) masked a lot of whet the future had in store for me.

Sir5r

Mine would put a different spin on it every time the topic came up. I know she entertained at least three guys at her house during the early stages of our relationship. There was either an excuse, or she broke up with me, or she told me I broke up with her, or she needed her space or a totally hindsight based gaslight of the whole occurrence. The guy that slept in her bed obviously drove a huge wedge between us and the topic was raised from time to time during break ups. Once, she went quiet and agreed that it was wrong, almost admitting she cheated. Then, she tried to deflect. Other times she would ask why this needed to be brought up as it was in the past. I got no truthful answer but did get an incomplete confession. At the end of the relationship, I had no idea. She broke up and said it was for real over this time. That lasted five weeks and then she was back, this time controlling to the point of telling me what to do. She was very confident and alluring with me also. It was almost as if there was another party because she lost her inhibition. She then turned, became suicidal and melted down. I didn't see her again. Two years later, here I am.

----------------------------

I get the same thing. "it's in the past, so why do I need to bring it up?"

The answer is easy.     Because it was never settled.  Ever.

When someone lies to you and you know it there is a compelling force that causes you to need the truth.  Otherwise, your trust in them never returns.

Here I am as well, 25 years into this relationship. She is working to try to get better in therapy but still no sensible explanation from her for her behavior.

So, I have no trust and with no trust there's no real intimacy, therefore she gets what she wants, a distant relationship.

Sir5r

Wow! I've heard the "it's in the past" line so many times   . It was almost humorous towards the end because everything was literally in the past do it was off limits to talk about. He told me once that he worried about my soul because of the unforgiveness in my heart. It's like you said, the issues were never dealt with so there was no closure and no moving forward without accountability and consequences.

What ended it for me was when I knew he was lying and I couldn't get the truth out if him and he was insanely jealous and paranoid of me cheating. I knew he must have a guilty conscience. But still I couldn't get any proof. So I stayed until one day he went off on me (for the last time). It was traumatizing. I asked myself how it was that he could be so paranoid with zero proof but I was trusting of him with loads of proof of his lies. When I honestly answered that I realized I dont trust him and there is no relationship.

After 14 years of marriage he moved into his own apartment today.

Muggzy

Mine was the same way always had way to much make up on a few times she flirted with guys in front of me if i said something was oh i was not flirting and stuff like that when she was. I was the same way i just took it she cheated on me a few times i sure there is more i dont know and she has left me to go jump in with another guy or seek meaningless sex like she is doing right now. The truth is i still take it cause she if tried to talk to me i would hear her out but since she has been ignoring me for the last 2 months i dont think that will happen anytime soon. Ive taken this crap for 7 years mostly just because i love her which i know cant be enough when they are cheating and lieing ALL the time.

She also had Emotional Affairs all the time a few i think she leads on making them think they will be more then friends in time. If you think about it they are victims as well not the cheaters i think if you get in bed with a women you know is taken your just as scummy as the women but the ones in the emotional affairs.

seems to be there MO though.

Emotional cheating: I totally forgot about that one. Thanks Jonny.

During the summer of 2010~ish (way before I dated her), she was seeing her ex. But at the same time she was talking/IMing/Skyping a lot with a friend of hers (the one whom she slept with during Christmas 2010 when she broke up with her ex).

She told him all of her relationship problems with her ex; how he had a tough time staying hard with her, how he'd rather watch porn, all his flaws and so on, the fact that she was his first. This guy (I briefly talked to him about my ex, long story) told me that at one point, when she was sitting behind the computer and they were playing a video game and her ex was in the room, she said "I like you so much better than [ex], [R]!"

So yeah. Cheating isn't just limited to physical cheating with BPD (waifs). In fact, I believe I read an article here or on  that said that if BPD cannot get the stimuli they need from their SO's, they'll get it from somewhere else.

Just another reason to never get involved with a BPD ever again.

My ex waif was similar. I don't think cheating has any limitations for them. It could be anyone. I was kept in the dark about her facebook page and she always turned her phone off when I was around. There was never an atmosphere of trust and it was turned back on me if I questioned it. During her pregnancy, her main gripe was losing her body. She would always tell me I had her now because she couldn't go and pick up. She also told me having a child with me meant I got her. Funny? Since she got an RO and I have't seen her or my child for almost two years. She'd say that she was joking about a lot of statements but when you observed her actions for a while, you soon started to realise, anything was possible. There were tons of horrible things that my ex said to me during close moments. She would joke about the other guy who was interested in her that she kept in touch with. Then other times, contradict and suggest he wasn't interested in her. Half the stuff could have been from conversations with other guys on the net or over the phone. How horrible to even have to piece her craziness together like that. She told me her ex husband was useless in bed and also kept saying that "you know you have got me this way." As if I had some sort of sexual control over her. She re-seduced one of her fling objects after he dumped her initially, saying they weren't suited to each other. She re-seduced him to quote, "have the last laugh." She also loved that I told her in the beginning that I just wanted to be friends.

I absolutely agree with all of this. Something just hit me.

It seems like my BPDexgf always had tons of guys around. Do they plan this? She worked at a pizzeria and obviously she was surrounded. I really do think she chose her job because of the access to men!

Thank you for this singular part of your post. I heard it too. In fact, when be broke up it was thrown in my face as a reason why it was my fault. Because I couldn't let go of the past. Because I kept him trapped in the "crazy box". Because I couldn't forgive him.

The truth is I did forgive him. I forgave over and over but he wasn't completely wrong either. I couldn't leave things in the past because NOTHING WAS EVER RESOLVED. Not one single issue in 4 years was ever resolved. Even the break up provided zero closure.

I didn't even realize it but it was an attempt for him to blame me for his behaviors and his running away. He was making it my fault that I couldn't just get over things. It's been rattling around in the back of my head for months now and I didn't realize it, until I read those words that it had really been bothering me.

Now I know why. Thank you

My BPD had no problem using sex to get what she wanted... even though she wasnt a prostitute working the streets she was in a sense because she gave it up so easily for the stupidest things... WHORE! This woman was very attractive,smart, and college educated... how the hell did she go so wrong?

My ex cheated on me 2 times and both times she blamed it on me. As if  I could make her lay down and spread her legs out for some stranger to park his car in her garage. Made me want to kick her in the head. Sorry got a little carried away there lol. God forbid I would have cheated on her because it would most def been my fault and she probably would have cut it off as I slept.

It's part of them. They have a mental illness.  One of their issues is that they assume relationships are much closer than they are.  They make conclusions about others that aren't true, especially in the beginnings of relationships.  Smarter men use them for what they're worth realize the depths of their problems and get out before the hooks are set.  All of the men here, including myself are the kind that are easy prey for them.  

I said in another thread a while ago that they are very vulnerable during the idealization phase.  They usually are obsessed with their immediate target and blind to any red flags that they're in a bad situation.  Again, my BPD wife used many of her exes for some sort of gain but their are others that used her as well.  One to such an extent that she said "He treated me like a piece of meat" and that relationship lasted only two weeks.  She was vulnerable at the time, just like a molting scorpion but some men know they have problems. They see the red flags, immediate sex, following them around like a puppy dog, etc. take full advantage and leave.

Rarely will you ever here a BPD woman admit she is being used. Most of the time my wife projects and say she used them, she has said about the aforementioned relationship more than once.

It's a way for them to cope.  Their lives are train wrecks and we rode the train.


Sir5r  

@timebomb

My ex was exactly the same. She is just stunning. Normally very sexual and she would use that to put her hooks in her victims. We broke up at one point and she took off with another guy. They got in a fight and she came to see me for like 5 days banging our brains out like old times. She made up with the new guy and that quick she was back banging him again. CRAZY.

That's the crazy part... to us, none of it makes any sense.  But to BP's it makes absolutely perfect sense!  I mean, how dare we ask them to be in a normal loving relationship!  I would bring up the fact that she had sex with other guys, and my BP would complain that I couldn't forget about the past, that we weren't in a relationship at the time, that I kept trying to destroy our relationship instead of building it, and when every other excuse ran out she would just plain state that I was not "entitled" to her time.   

By the way, she would use this "entitlement" problem of mine as further proof that I had BPD.

When my BP ex got tired of hearing me complain about her sexcapades with two other guys (at least) during our 1 year relationship, she would simply state that I could leave whenever I wanted.  She would say this especially near the end when she decided to triangulate me with another earlier lover of hers.  My favorite line of hers would be "who says I'm gonna stop seeing him?"

The levels of toxic insanity we were exposed to in our BPD relationships is just unbelievable.  I hate to paint myself as a victim after all I always had the freedom to leave - as my wonderful BP most nicely pointed out - but I can't help but think about how naive I was going into a relationship with this sick woman and just what a terrible effect it would have on my mental health.

This is very similar to how I ended up where I am today.  My wife was sleeping with her BF at the time and me. I was ending the relationship I was in at the time with another BPD (a waif in 20/20 hindsight) and seeing my wife.  She would go home with her BF from a bar right in front of me and show up on my doorstep the next morning and jump into bed.  This went on for weeks until I called her on it.  Then she broke up with him, was with me and then left me to go back to him and then he had it with her and broke up with her.

How the hell did I think this was normal? She used to make out with guy friends of hers in the bars with me there. I never did anything like that, even when she wasn't around.  She told me of course "I never slept with any of them, it's all in fun."

Was I out of my mind?  Now I sit, 25 years later, 3 kids and a mentally ill wife.   What the hell made me blind to HER faults?  My avatar here says it all.


Sir5r

@sir sir

Well thats a little extreme. I couldn't sit back and watch that happen. Me and my ex broke up 4 times and 2 of those times (the last 2) she moved in with another guy so I can't actually say it was cheating but close enough for me. The only reason why I let her come see me the last time was because I was horny as hell and I knew what was going to happen. Inspite of me still loving her, I had no intentions of getting back with her or expecting more out of the situation than what is was. I have know and accepted the fact that we will never be together.

What was funny though, she said some things to me that she never said before. She was abusing drugs towards the end of the relationship and she told me she was SORRY FOR EVERYTHING SHE DID. She told me she relizes that she blamed me for everything. She accused me of saying and doing things I never did . She also said that KARMA is catching up to her for all the wrong things she did to me. (meaning her new bf beats the crap out of her.) She then went on to say That I was the most important person in her life but she has put herself in a situation she cannot get out of.

She has been drug free for 4 months and claims she realizes everything she did and feels horrible and still crys to this day. Not sure what that was all about its just odd to see one odd to see one of these people be so vigilant and re-morseful. I dunno, it actually took me off guard and confused the hell out of me.

It's her way of trying to pull you back, the nuclear option.

"I know I have problems and I'm working on them, see I can be normal."

It was smart of you not to take the bait.

Sir5r

Until i met my BPD i never really seen anybody as corrupt and downlow as this woman... i laugh at peoples definition of crazy.People have not seen true crazy until they have been with a person with BPD. I tried to put myself in her posistion, i tried to think like she did in certain situations and NONE of it made any sense. Im surprised they know how to put matching clothes on in the morning because they are complete lunatics!

Great insight,

Thats about what I marked it up as. I was under the impression that since they don't think anything is wrong with what they do, they would not know what they do to harm you, therefore how could they be sorry for something they don't think is wrong. (if that makes any sense) Which then further makes me think. If you know what your doing is wrong and you continue to knowingly do it, why do you blame the other person. confusing

lol@timbomb

Mine was an excellent cook. but sometimes i wore the food instead of eating it.

The most shocking thing about BPD is that even if they are in therapy and on the best anti-psychotic medication they still act like they're totally mental.  I truly believe their worst behaviors are deeply ingrained and pretty much unchangeable.  Never get involved with a BP unless they have been totally recovered.  I am reluctant to believe this can happen, but am still open to the concept.

I saw my ex regress and progress and regress too many times ... .Even if "in full recovery mode" the answer for me is no ... .Never again ... .Can a pwBPD improve? I'm sure they can ... .Will it ever be emough for me to feel safe and comfortable? NO ... .Never want this experience again ... .

I tried to put myself in my ex's shoe's over and over ... .Guess what? It just confused me more and messed with my head ...

So when your BP ex was on drugs and/or in therapy, did their behavior actually improve?  If so, what improvements did you actually see?

I think thats part of the anger as well just wishing they would one day magically be "normal". When you realize this person that you at one time loved so dearly will never change... you have no other choice but to walk away and harsh reality wins over your hopes and hearts desire.

You never win

Just rebemer this will happen again and again and again just a different suit is all

I don't think therapy ever helped my ex. He manipulated his therapist to get her to say what he wanted her to say so that he could use it to justify his actions. A year ago he, after getting caught in a particularly bad batch of lies, he admitted to myself, his therapist, his family that he used his therapist to justify his actions. "My therapist says ... ." fill in the blank. No, I don't think therapy ever worked for him. It seemed to just give him more ammunition.  

Yes, medication helped in that he slowed down his emotions so that they didn't overwhelm him. However, it was limited at best. Even at a slower rate, his emotions still moved faster than he could frequently keep up with them. I have no idea what the rest of the medication's purpose was as he kept most of it from me. But as there is no medication specifically for BPD any benefits are limited at best.

It is hard to read these posts without feeling that sick in the stomach feeling. I remember the first time I had it when my ex turned off her phone and entertained an ex. Then when she told me that she might as well screw another guy after being with me for several months. I also despise her parents for blaming everybody around her that is close to her. Reality in that family is scarce. She projected her games onto me saying I was the loose one, when I was so dedicated to her. I cannot imagine how many games she has played with men since I have gone. Just waiting for the letter from Child Support saying there is another child in her care. Accepting they are broken people is so hard.

My belief that two people in a serious relationship should only have sex with each other was also seen as MY problem. I just wanted to OWN him, how sick, not well-adjusted at all, completely delusional... .but same as everyone else's exerience if I suggested that I go off and get some on the side it was nonononono. At least as soon as it moved beyond the purely hypothetical. He'd say okay, I don't care, but if I said "well, how about if I just go talk to that random guy over there?"... .suddenly it would get turned around into me wanting to end the relationship.

Object constancy is a necessary component of the separation/individuation phase. Since you're a student of psy, you might find Mahler's theory interesting.

Separation-Individuation Phase: The first three years of life are critical in determining personality and mental health. The sub-phases are:

       :)ifferentiating Phase

       Practicing Phase

       Rapprochement Phase

       Object Constancy Phase

Borderlines do not have object constancy and they suffer from rapprochement crisis.  Because there is no constancy they begin all or none thinking until the object returns. Once the object leaves the process begins anew.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ydkom6-IBY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ydkom6-IBY)

This is my first post.

Im Japanese and sorry for my broken English.

I don't think taking threrapy & medications has worked on my ex.

About a year ago, he begged me to get back together like crazy.(we broke up once becaue he cheated on me and I had no idea he had BPD then... .) He was so unstable and suicidal... .Now I know it was stupid idea but then I thounght I should help him... .

He was hospitalized a couple of times and suicidal for a while. After that he seemed to get better by taking therapy & medications. However, I found out that it was TOTALLY FAKE. He pretended to be fine and made me and his family relieved, but the fact was that he was sleeping around and doing crazy stuff... .I told him I found out the truth and left him immediately, but this guy still tried to lie  

He is very good at lying. I believe that he even can lie to his doctors.

Now he is out of any meds. He told me that his doctor allowed him but I doubt it. He might lied to him very well.

I wasted almost 4 yrs for this terrible guy... .  Nobody doubted that we were having a great relationship but he destroyed everyhing... .

They are the ultimate liars. Think about it. They lie to themselves, they are like chameleons when it comes to the truth. Because they lie to themselves they function in whatever reality they want you to believe to get what they want from you.  Whether it's affection or physical gain it does not matter, you will never get the truth.

That's the world I live in after 25 years with my wife, I know I never have heard the truth. I know enough of the facts to be able to see a blurry version of her past but the chance of actually getting the truth from her is dim.

What she doesn't seem to understand is that has created trust issues that will continue to erode the relationship and if not settled soon cause me to end it.

It's hard enough dealing with their abuses without trust in them it's nearly impossible, even when they're in therapy. Because where there's no trust there's no true intimacy.


Sir5r

This is one of the most difficult parts.  I was with my exuBPD/NPDso for 13 years. . .there's no doubt in my mind in the end he was cheating. . .and i confronted him. . .and most people on here knows what happens then  

So, i ended it. . .and i really don't think he has any idea of what he put me through and absolutely no understanding about eroding my trust etc.  In order to take the heat off what he had recently been doing, he told me at the beginning of our relationship for years he was seeing 6 other women and me. . .

When i obviously starting asking him about it - all he could say was "that was in the past" in an irritated don't question me way.  

He's just told me that, along with my mind racing about what he was currently up to but no. . .i was supposed to just sweep it under the carpet and carry on.  

He is a highly intelligent man. . .university lecturer but when i mentioned the notion of emotional infidelity - he had absolutely no idea what i was on about.  Funny enough, it was portrayed in a drama series we have here and i asked him if he saw it - "saw it", he said "i was taking notes" - i bet he was, learning something new in case he gets asked about it again.

To be honest i think i knew he was seeing others right at the beginning but it didn't bother me as i had come out of a long term relationship and wasn't looking for anything serious but after a while we both said we only wanted to be with each other. . .now i don't know what the hell has gone on, who he was or what the hell he was up to. . .and it's truly awful and no matter how much i still miss him, is why it would never work - as you say no trust, no real intimacy

I think BPD's quest for Chaos is based around 1 thing. NEED. Need is the altimate cause of their demise. If you listen to them its always about what THEY need or what is lacking in THEIR life. My ex would tell me all the time, MY life is so screwed up and I can see how people commit suicide , as she would be making yet another mistake (poor decisions) to further her demise.

EXAMPLE:

Ex girlfriend leaves me and hooks up with a guy days later. 2 months later is pregnant. The new guy puts her through a bathroom door and tried to hit her in the stomach with a hammer. She leaves him. He threatens her whole family with death threats including her little girl and left 85 voicemail messages on her dad's phone. He has a gambling problem and a rap sheet filled with domestic violence charges. Here is the kicker.

She doesnt work, has no family here. I am the only person who could possibly help her (which I am not available to her although she tried) She was talking about getting an abortion because she said it wasn't right to bring a child into this world under these circumstances. Since that time, she goes back to the guy and having the baby. Her NEED to have someone take care of her overshadows and logic thinking. She will not make it through the pregnancy term before he beats the crap out her again.

You will hear "My life is so screwed up I just want to die". These people make really poor decisions based on NEED and they are their worst enemys.

My wife is a Master of BPD ju jitsu.  She will yell scream, rant and rave for and hour then schmooze you into taking her out to dinner that night.  She has lied to my face and expected what amounted to a reward for lying hours later.

They live in the moment.  Even if your really good at interrogating them to get to the truth you will either get anger or tears and dissociation.

Sir5r

Soo True... .amazing

Yeah, i pushed him sometimes and got a few half truths. . .but it was mostly one of the above at different times.

I told him our relationship was over one night very late after we had been going around in circles for hours. . .the next morning i mentioned we were supposed to be going to see a comedian that night. . .he said, come on let's go it'll be fun   yeah, what a laugh

his exgf moved in with them (he lived with his mom) and said that he could not do anything because it was his mom's home. he was still with me, kept calling, etc ONLY if he's not with the girl because he fears he might HURT her feelings. it is always someone else's fault but his. his other ex has issues, because her mom had issues, his own mom has issues, even his grandmother... except HIM? come on. he has a dysfunctional family in the first place.

I am interested in the basis for this comment as I am currently a single mother and this fact alone would make me no more likely to cheat than anyone else... .

n_n I appreciate the sentiment in your post.  I am feeling like I wasted the past 2.5 years on someone who was not truthful.  Now that I have had some space I an truly grateful that I don't have to endure that any longer, and at least I won't waste any more time... .

Easydoesitnow

Thank you for your reply :)

I am so glad that you are out. I am also relived that I don't need to put up with his terrible bevaviour anymore and can start new life withought him.

I used to miss him a lot, but now not at all. I am still angry at him but I stopped being nice to him and feel getting better.

Actually I wasted almost 4 yrs, but now I try to think that I fortunately could find the truth earlier and learned a lot from the relationship.

I get that my ex UBPD doesn't have a conscience.  I am still wondering why his family thinks it is OK for him to cheat after 30+ years together and act like his two months gf is equivalent to the woman who raised his children for the past 27 years. Wack-o city. He meets a gypsy con artist and she is just as important as me to them?  Get real. Hey guys, he dies and you will never see the kids; just remember that.

There is no real-ity withBPD. They are continually rewriting history.  Lies, lies, more lies and lies for no reason; just to screw with us nons. 

They routinely lie about things that are of no consequence just to feel like they are in control and to create chaos which leads to control.  Sad to think they have to lie, lie and lie; over and over.  You cannot take it personally.  It is their disorder.   

You know everyone deserves honest love... .I knew my ex was cheating or at least I knew something was wrong. I should have listened to my gut. Thinking back on what I put up with it's just disgusting. There's a real temptation to turn that disgust onto one's self.  But as long as your love was sincere you don't have much to be ashamed of. It takes smokers several attempts before they quit.  I still miss companionship but I don't miss him. I feel sorry for him because I, probably the best thing that ever will happen to him could no longer stand to even hear him talk anymore. He was not the best thing that happened to me.  Lies lies and more lies. But I learned, I learned

I am not damaged I am now healed of the original problem that caused me to stay! I'm free and it won't happen again

I hear you WillThisGetBetter. I have also had moments where I have felt disgusted with myself for allowing the manipulation and not putting a stop to the relationship. There is also the fact that my ex moved so fast. From love bombing to pregnancy and sudden break ups. My head was spinning and I was six months into it before I even knew BPD existed. The reality of her illness really only hit home after she vanished. I guess that also suggests how much I wanted to escape my self at the time. Despite constant crazy behaviour and break ups, I always believed that her love was for real. I know my love was sincere but she cannot accept real love and turns it on the person who cares for her most. I don't miss her either. I feel lucky to have escaped. I was one of the best things that happened to her and I also have no doubt that it boosted her ego which is sad. However, it is a game to her, any sort of bagging, name calling, smear campaign or self serving false opinion painted by the ego will do and I would be painted as black as night now. She as much a slut for half truths and lies as she is for fraudulent unions. I don't really wish to call her that but the behaviour fits. It's a shame, I loved her but as we know about BPD, it's their loss.

I just found that my exbf is a member of various swinger sites.  Explains why he suddenly wanted to travel.

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This is so true. I've taken to keeping a journal in order to make sense of what she says.

It's the only way I can get a grasp on what really happened in her life by weeding through the lies.  It was when I started doing this I began to make some sense out of her past. So much of what she told me about herself was half truths or outright fabrication.

Sir5r

Easydoesitnow

My ex was (or still, idk) using kinda swinger websites, too  

I wrote about it on another post "How do you cope with your anger?".

I hope you are ok, because when I found out, I got panicked... .I really do not understand why they can do things which can destroy their own life... .I think my ex just can not control his desire. He should know he can loose his carrier, family & friends, but thats not my business anymore... .

My ex was taught to never cheat, and he never technically did!

He must've voted for Bill Clinton lol

No... he "never had sex with that woman", but emotional cheating was not a consideration for him. 

In the first two yrs of our r/s, he met his ex @ various places, spoke to her on the phone... etc.

When he left me six months ago, after six years, six days after (oh my 6-6-6!  ), he was on a date with a woman while I was reeling in pain and disbelief, still wearing an engagement ring. 

I think all BPDs cheat, whether it's physical or emotional.

Although there are a few members here who say their partners were not cheaters. . .yes i think it is very rare.  I know my ex was seeing other people for the first few years of our relationship as recently, he had to tell me.  But then for the next 6 years all i can say is his behaviour didn't reflect a man who was cheating.

In the last couple of years however his behaviour changed again and i believe my ex was both physically and emotionally cheating again. . .he lied about the physical and seemed to have no understanding of the concept of 'emotional cheating'. . .basically he was getting his ego stroked constantly in a number of different ways - 'NEED'. . .and whether he was flirting, getting in a compromising situation, having one night stands or affairs. . .they were just friends  lol  It is quite easy to see when he's going elsewhere as his interest in you changes quite dramatically.


Ruthless   . . .i suppose if you have no empathy, it's hard to have a conscience.  It was blatantly clear with my ex, he had no understanding of how cheating hurts. . .i've seen him with friends who have had issues as well as our crisis. . .and he dismisses it completely and gives the impression he doesn't know what the 'fuss' is about.  

I think they can cheat without remorse because for them sex is superficial, a performance, a tool they use to gain control over us. My ex gf is one of those who (I think) never "technically" cheated, though she constantly flirted. Before breaking up with me she said she wasn't ready for commitment, and she asked my permission (!) to be with other men for a while with a view to eventually coming back and marrying me! When I said no she got angry and broke up with me to hook up with the man she had waiting.

I think they can cheat without remorse because for them sex is superficial, a performance, a tool they use to gain control over us. My ex gf is one of those who (I think) never "technically" cheated, though she constantly flirted.

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Because of their intimacy fears they tend to keep sex "at a distance."

I know for my wife that isn't a firm boundary, depending on her relationship she would let some of her exes closer than others. Part of their black and white thinking makes them vulnerable when they paint an new obsession or target white.  My wife claims she was celibate for two years, I have my doubts about that, but when she "decided" on someone she pursued a relationship, if it could be called that, that lasted less then two weeks.  Ended up being treated very poorly, felt used but still claims to this day "she wanted to get laid" and was a strong woman going and getting what she wanted.

The truth is she was very hurt but has NEVER said that to me.   

Their implsivity is a danger to them for sure. Think about it.  How many people will sleep with someone the first night out?   That was the case with for me, although it was masked by the setting. We were in college, had seen each other out a few times and then she decided to call me.


Sir5r

With my ex-BPDbf, I found that you could literally almost catch him in the act, and he would still profess that nothing was going on in an absolutely convincing way.  I know on some level he certainly knew what he was doing, but there is an element of it in which I've come to believe they truly believe their own lies and that's why they are so astoundingly smooth.  It seems to become more so over time, although he is closer to me in a friend way.  Almost ramped up.  We are pretty much no contact now, and he continues to lie with even little things.  Not sure what that is all about. He is getting older and now forgets some of his coverups. lol.

I realized my woman's intuition was right on a very long time ago. The level of cheating is unbelievable and I am lucky I came away safe.  I know now that everytime we had a big fight and broke up for a week, he was off with someone else.

BP's survived by looking after themselves.  When they cheat on you usually it's because of something they think you did to them to make them cheat.  They justify their behavior in all kinds of ways that make perfect sense to them.  Either they "think" you were broken up, or as in my case, they were never in a "relationship" with you to begin with.  That is, until they find out that you've been seeing other people too and then you're the person who's been dishonest.

Their world doesn't make sense.  Their brains are disordered.  There are reasons they do what they do, of course.  However, no matter what the reason the end result is the same: they subconsciously start to develop the idea that you are their persecutor and their abuser.  Over time, they will try to destroy your life and make you mentally ill.  As soon as you drop them off at home after a weekend together, they will be calling the next guy/girl to come over.

And they'll be doing it all with a great big smile on their face.

As a woman, I try to be open minded about different kinds of relationships including ones that do not include monogamy. Over the years, I have met many people who have relationships outside their marriages, and I have found by getting to know some of these so called cheaters or open marriage people, that nearly every single one of them has challenges with empathy, connection, and that they all seem to be looking for the next relationship as a way to fill an inner emptiness. People with BPD do have problems with feeling empty inside, and often look for a new relationship to fill the inner void, which of course never works for long.

The lack of remorse with the cheating does seem astonishing. My pwBPD constantly has multiple emotional affairs on the go, some of which do become more physical. Her goal seems to be to get people to fall in love with her and tell her she is gorgeous. If the other person gets too demanding she usually ghosts them and is very dismissive when they try and process their feelings of confusion or hurt. She will switch overnight from all-day (literally) texting, messaging, snapchat, calling and sometimes physically seeing people to nothing. And then laugh that she is terrible like that. However if they ghost her (after all, she gets played sometimes too!) that provokes a full episode with suicidality and violence.

I am in the process of trying to extract myself from all of this. I do understand it is part of her disorder, to try and fill her void with attention and she pursues sexual attention in particular, but it is non stop. There is a limit to how much time I can spend sitting next to my SO on the sofa while she is texting men pretending to be single and interested in a relationship with them... .! Especially since we are lesbians!

Very insightful posts and great topic.

I picked "highly suspicious" which was the best fit, although I continually make reference on these boards that my ex has cheated. It is more to do with all the evidence being there but not having complete proof, this actually made it all the more difficult for me emotionally and still does even after the R/S finally ended. It led to the situation where I was still able to stay with her because she knew that if I was to confirm it, I would have ended it.

I very much relate to what avoidatallcost said, I got the feeling by her behaviour around that time towards me that she had set her mind against me, for perceived faults, and this absolved her temporarily of having any responsibility for going elsewhere. It was the first time that I experienced this and it came as a huge shock, as our R/S up to that point had been great, and even early on the day, on the surface she was her usual self, everything was fine, although she did become unusually nervous when she left my house and exhibited nervous tension which she never had before.

I will likely never know what really happened or why, and I realise that actually, thats ok, because ive got over it and accept it. I maybe dont really want to know what she felt about me if she had painted me black or her justifications. I notice so far that the poll leads with "highly suspicious", I wonder if this affected those people as much as it has done to me in the sense that you never really get to know the truth, and how this plays on the mind especially if you choose to continue the R/S onwards from that point.

As a woman, I try to be open minded about different kinds of relationships including ones that do not include monogamy. Over the years, I have met many people who have relationships outside their marriages, and I have found by getting to know some of these so called cheaters or open marriage people, that nearly every single one of them has challenges with empathy, connection, and that they all seem to be looking for the next relationship as a way to fill an inner emptiness. People with BPD do have problems with feeling empty inside, and often look for a new relationship to fill the inner void, which of course never works for long.

GonnaMakeIt, I hope you're ok.  14 years is a long time but you are right... .without trust, commitment and loyalty there is no relationship. I'm sorry you had to go through all that but you are just as your name indicates... .you are gonna make it and thrive after all is over.  I just served my spouse with the divorce papers and finally see an end in sight.  We are currently not talking which makes me sad on one level but helps me escape the unnecessary drama.  I am moving soon after the divorce is finalized so that I can start over and have less around to remind me of our relationship.  Good luck to you!

In my opinion they always need a back up to feel safe. Even if this person has been gone for months or years, they will still feel they can go back to that person at one point.  Which I feel is why many BPD women try the pregnancy trap.

I know my ex wife changed overnight when her ex husband moved across the country and remarried. Then it was just her and I. Which means she had to try and frantically find a new potential back up. She didn't really want her ex, but she also went to great lengths to destroy his new marriage. (Things like befriending new wife over time and giving her money for divorce. Her own place etc) extreme manipulation 

As for cheating that was always my fault for some reason. Or I should have sympathy for her. "Well I gave my number to 20 guys on the internet because I missed you so much and needed a distraction"

Never remorseful.

I dont feel as if my ex would regard it as "cheating" in the normal sense of the word, but when the circumstances were there was an overwhelming need fulfillment. I was her friend for a number of months before the relationship and unbeknownst to me she had started a relationship and an hour after sex she started crying and I discovered she had cheated on him. So there was an element of shame or remoarse, but at the moment in time she did it impulsively. Then having to go back into the relationship and hide the fact, the easiest way is to bury it away or find an irrational reason that gets blame shifted for the behaviour on to the partner instead.

Once that stage is reached, triangulation is already established with the advantage of "hedging the risk" of being failed emotionally by a single source.

I didn’t read all 7 pages but I’ll answer as to why they cheat.Its a two part answer and really not much more complicated than what I’m going to write .
1: they have zero impulse control and hence to them sex is a way to fill an emotional black hole(as is drugs,booze,gambling,driving recklessly) not all are the same but sex seems very prevalent over most of the others. .Sex to them holds no intimacy or love value because they are incapable of both of those things.To them giving their bodies away for fleeting moments of sexual emotion that pulls them out or away of having to think or be alone with themselves is as easy as normal people ordering a cup of coffee at a Dunken  donuts or Tim Hortons.God forbid whoever is giving them attention might not like them if we don’t put out so they put out.
2: They lack self ,and they hate themselves.When normal people meet someone new they use charisma ,talk a bit about what they like ,hobbies,pet peeves etc.What happens when you have none of those because you spend your existence mirroring everyone? You have nothing to offer in the short term(first date), so what do they do? Yup have sex with their new attention giver.Once they have more time to mirror you and wrap more web around you then sex is less of a tool but a tool none the less .Its not for no reason that most are exceptionally good at sex, it’s intoxicating to an extent how talented they are at it .But in the short term once the crazy comes out,you realize it’s just not worth it , and the physical risk is extreme as they have no quarrels with sleeping with strangers unprotected, so keep safe out there people and get tested often ( I did get tested after I ended it and even during when I found out how many people she had been with)

That’s it really ,it’s that simple as to why they are like this there is no special case usually outside these basic elements that make up part of the horrible illness of BPD .

Exactly.  Cheating and sex for them is like other people shaking hands. Which is why it is even scarier for an attractive BPD woman.  Men can do the same. But not nearly as easy.

The more hurtful part, at the time, was that I could understand why some people cheat.

Perhaps a guy who always travels for work and never sees his wife. A guy who cheats. A guy who gives his wife little attention.

The double whammy is they suck up all of your affection and attention THEN cheat   While then making an excuse, and blaming you fo why they had to do so.

My ex never blamed me she just lied which was one of her great talents ,not so much because she was good at it more because she just did it always .If she didn’t lie it was denial which frankly seems worse to me than a sub par creative lie ,lies require effort .Last weekend when we went to eat she actually quoted this sentence “ I don’t remember sending you a text that we broke up?” .The weekend she actually did break up with me she spend it with her ex boyfriend who she also quoted during our dinner saying “ mr xyz is not a man who will raise two kids and be a good husband , he’s only good for wrapping a belt around my neck and fxxxking me with no emotion”. Yes she actually said this but denied “seeing him that weekend “ but forgot about the text she send me 1 month ago saying yeah me and him had a long conversation about the bs me and her went through.I blew off all her attempts at a reaction from me , internally I was just shaking my head with pity towards her.Pity because it was sad to watch someone trying to skate with ski boots , and pity because she had no idea I saw her game from A-Z .

It’s moments like those that just confirmed to me thank god! I didn’t continue with her .

It does have an affect on their side emotionally as well though. Im not sure if remorse is the most accurate word but possibly when the consequences of having been found cheating and the discard that follows, it is that zone of emptiness that forces to confront maybe not remorse because it gets projected as the blame on the other, but beneath that defence mechanism can be a lot of pain for losing the other who they have emotionally fixated on. Its why I think I was in the circumstances at that time to get into a relationship with her, it soothed those feelings by adapting to me - I was simply available and she didnt have a prior opportunity to triangulate and have a Plan B to fall on. She had her moments of drunken rageful projections against her ex but in the first few weeks I recall her stating that he had messed her up emotionally in a sort of half pining, half having to attribute failure to her emotional conflicts to him.

So all the idolisation and adoration I got, which I believed to be all about me, I feel in hindsight was just a heavy displacement of those emotions she couldnt handle. "i love you" love bombed as a form of desperation hook. As time goes on object permenance kicks in, they forget what happened perhaps moreso, they forget almost the existence of that person, they adapt to your personality, then it only takes new circumstances for repeating the same again. After all, the relationship was never rooted in true love in the first place, regardless of how authentic albeit unrealastic it all came across - "loved as a temporary soothing saviour" is the way I start to see it. Even in my last talks with her the theme of "saving her" is what predominated as it had done previously, which I cant blame her, I had assumed that role in so many ways, she is only reflecting what she remembered. The fact I stayed with her despite the obviousness of her cheating, gave the wrong signal to alleviate much of the guilt. "he stayed, so I couldnt have hurt him that badly".

On the other hand, when I slept elsewhere (not cheating, I split up) she didnt loathe me but the woman I slept with, despite neither of us doing anything wrong. Why? because she was seen as a threat and an opportunity for me to detach from being that saviour role. Thats when the phone stalking soon after started, the paranoia I would cheat on her intensified, and no doubt, she will have also cheated and triangulated elsewhere realising I wasnt as low of a risk of leaving as she thought I was.

Its no coincidence that so many write of the shock of all this happening at what seemed the height of the honeymoon phase, everything was great, no cause for concern. I think that is where the height of vulnerability and engulfment feelings kick in and there is a need to emotionally distance, so infidelity is a good tool for that purpose. Thats my observation based theory anyhow.

For future relationships, I find a good thing to explore is does this potential partner have any remorse about how they treated their last partner? If he/she was the victim, and the partner could not do anything right, than this potential partner will not take responsibility for their part in the things that go wrong in the relationship. Look for someone who is humble, honest, caring, and able to work through the disagreements that naturally occur in any relationship if it lasts long enough.