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I was just watching the bpdfamily.com BPD video describing BPD and this stood out. Mostly because I don't understand it, but I went through it. I saw this in my ex. But I don't see how compromise causes feelings of being violated, abused or cheated.

Here is the quote. Anyone have any idea's about it?

Borderlines are often uncomfortable negotiating or reaching compromise - and when it is thrust upon them they may feel violated, cheated, abused.

The way I understood it with my BPD is that it was connected with black and white thinking. Comprimises are somewhat a gray zone in the sense that neither party gets EXACTLY what they want... .so if BPD is asked to compromise, then it automatically flips to black.

When you force it on them, and it is a totally reasonable compromise, I suspect there might be a rational side that knows it is very reasonable, but they still FEEL that it is wrong, and then they feel cheated in that sense because they feel bad about something that they shouldn't feel bad about... .it is very conforntational between them and their mental illness.

(embarassing story) When my uBPDxgf was cheating on me, I told her that it was not good, but if she felt it was something that was necessary, to keep up her "relationship" with other guy, but just manage it (i.e. only staying over at his place no more than twice a week). She got mad because I was restricting her freedom, and when she inevitably messed up (*she was with him 4 nights a week once), she was mad at me to putting expectationson her.

I sensed that she was mad at herself as well, but what made it worse was because we had a very reasonable compromise in place, she couldn;t really actually blame me for anythign, so it had to be somethign internally wrong with her... .that didn't go well.

someone cheating on me would not be negotiable.  I want someone who is committed.

Hmmmm, compromise, etc., shouldn't trigger a rational person. But my ex had been so abused and poorly parented that everything is perceived as an attack. I bought a birthday cake and a $100 bottle of perfume for her... .and all I got was... ."Ulterior motives?" The same when I bought her flowers after she "postponed" the wedding. What was I supposed to do, smack her around for her birthday, be violent? She's the drama queen. Not me. I do miss the good times, but more and more I understand what a losing battle I was fighting. I know I wouldn't have stuck around forever.

This makes a certain amount of sense. There was never compromise in our relationship. Even when he would agree to something it would backfire. It took two years of working and negotiating and therapy to get him to realize that having a clean house was important. SHEESH ... .I know what I was thinking back then, but WOW ... .LOL

|iiii  see, that is logic talking.

The white knight in me was trying to see if I could "break" the BPD way of thinking in my xgf. The only person who was at risk of being hurt was really me and her, and it was a risk I was concious of and willing to take. I am now in therapy taking a look at that decisiona nd wondering where it came from?

Ultimately, it was at least an interesting experiment? It wasn't all negative... .my approach to compromise eventually led her to admit to feeling a "void" inside her, and that she keeps tryign to fill itby having new relationships and get the rush from them. Having said that, she also conciously chose to change her thinking and run away from having to deal with having the "void" by jumping into a committed relationsihp with someone new who wasn't into compromising and would just up and leave her if she cheated (or so he says anyways).

Compromise? Why should my exuBPDbf have to compromise when my way is clearly wrong and inappropriate? Even the suggestion of me going out and seeing my friends was frowned upon, compromising with me ringing him every half hour to tell him where I was, who I was with etc wasn't enough because I was still out and he didn't want that.

He felt cheated and hurt that we had reached a compromise... .he later said he never agreed to it. It had to be his way after that. I think he seen a compromise as giving in, or admitting that his way was wrong, or (heaven forbid) that I was right.

My ex was extremely uncomfortable with negotiating or reaching compromise – when it was necessary he felt violated. His overload of emotional triggers (and mine) hindered his ability (and mine) to compromise and negotiate.

Everyone has a ‘starting gate’ position on compromise and negotiating ~ which for me, the pattern of communication stems way back. Via my T I realised my ‘starting gate’ position was automatically on the defence ~ I was so accustomed with the feeling that I had to be on guard it developed into very B&W thinking – I was counter-phobic and did not have the validation, boundary skills or the knowledge of my own limits to be an effective communicator.

This is the exactly the same for my ex – he is boundary-less, lacks self identity and has little knowledge of his limits and personal values.

If you don’t know what your limits, boundaries or personal values are it can have a stifling impact on any form of communication – including negotiating and compromise.

Coupled with the fact that a) I had an overwhelming sense of needing to maintain control (because I felt powerless/lacked worth in my right) b) both our ‘starting gate’ positions were butting up against each other and stemmed from core trauma c) neither had affective skills to negotiate fairly without the need to control d) we were both in denial of our own situations – me being a co-dependent/own abandonment issues and him – same! e) we both had the ability to dissociate during intense conversations d) we both felt confronted when evidence was presented (rightly or wrongly) which appeared to contradict our morals/ethics – interesting thing is! Neither of us were ever clear on what these were – Why!

Because we were so enmeshed with each other – I lived and breathed him – enmeshment with my ex was so encompassing – on every level imaginable – we were one in the same and had little clue where each of us started and began – I now know why we could not compromise – we mirrored each other – affective communication is very difficult when we were mirroring each other! Who was who?  

I was a true rescuer and believed my needs were unimportant and irrelevant – this bred resentment and anger as the r/s moved on. The way I felt valued was through the back door of care-taking. My care-taking was no longer being noticed, it was being chastised! I lost respect, love, ability to really understand where he was coming from and no doubt he with me.  We both switched up the Persecutor-Victim-Rescuer cycle.

So we both dissociated. This along with denial was our way of coping.

And we all dissociate to a degree – for me personally – I switched off my emotions, I could very easily send myself in a haze. Dissociation is a more pervasive form of denial -  I was not merely disregarding, neglecting or avoiding the truth but rather forms belief – my beliefs became very  uncertain ~ which in turn provided a fictitious version of reality – what was I trying to compromise on – did I really know?

I am now more awake. I have forgiven myself for the role I played in our lack of ability to seek resolution. Compromise/negotiating require mutual respect and trust! ~ we did not mutually feel that way.

No compromise, no discussion, none.  I said he was pushing too hard and he would continue, eventually back off some for short time, then slowly work to pushing again.  Then I would say something again... .  He led me to believe he agreed.

What hurts was his way of handling and dealing with my telling him he was pushing too hard, was going out and engaging relations with someone else, without communication to me, and while "keeping things going" with me.  Then later to tell me I pushed him away.   ?

He also had a set of rules - had many things he remembered his dad telling him about life, although his dad ended up leaving as did his mother - and his rules were to be lived by.  Because you know, that is why they are rules.   ?

What I didn't understand was why he accused me of having to have things my way.  And what I couldn't figure out was how to explain to him I'm trying to figure out his way.

There was no such thing as compromise with my exwBPD. None whatsoever. We could reach a compromise - a day or two later she'd break it. We'd reach a new one, she'd break it, and so on and so forth.

There was no give on her part, whatsoever. By giving in when they were broken, I just reinforced the behaviour. It's sad to realise that I encouraged that sort of thing.

But my 'rules, morals and ethics' don't exist in the BPD world. It's an extremely confusing thing to confront. BPD's can justify ANYTHING so long as it gets them what they want. The same as a small child always having an excuse.

I realized the same thing after the break up. I was actually reinforcing his behaviors by always being the one to fix the problems. No matter what he did, I would make it ok. So why should he change?


Yeah, my life had no place in his world either --- That I see clearly now.

The subject line jumped out in huge letters @ me just now.

I met my ex on-line.  His dating profile stated that all he wanted was a woman who would compromise.  He stated that a few times.

Ha!  Compromise?  Seriously?   He is a master manipulator and all he really wants is for HIS partner to compromise, or more to the point... .give in to HIS demands! 

There was no compromise on his part during the 6 yrs we were together.  He wanted my teenage son out of my house!  There was no compromise there.  He would find fault at every little thing my son did... .such as parking in the driveway (mind you... .my house!), running the clothes dryer each morning... .which his solution was to attempt to put a lock on the dryer.  There was no discussion on how we should approach raising MY children... .future financial planning (none... .no compromise, no discussion) etc. etc.  His hypersensitivity to small everyday things would lead him to rage.

When compromising, you need to come to a gray area; BPDs are incapable of seeing grey, all they see is black and white.  Compromising is never an option. 

The more I think about it, the more sense the "lack of a grey zone" makes.

If he can't see grey, then all he can see are two possibilities to everything. Either he get's his way or he doesn't.

He doesn't get his way ... .temper tantrum ... .destruction ... .passive aggression ... retaliation ... .

So a compromise would trigger some really ugly responses - which it did in our relationship over and over. I never could understand it, but I did experience it frequently.

Oddly, my ex could understand the intellectual side of a compromise. But he couldn't seem to follow through with it.

My therapist says everyone reacts from their emotions first. I bet this is even more true for a pwBPD.

So when they compromise their emotions register "not getting my way, violation of what i want" and they react, even if in black/white terms.

It's beginning to make sense ... .

Yep!

The art of compromising begins at a very early age.  If your caregiver does not allow you to have a voice, or negotiate a situation, the child has a tantrum. 

Isn't it odd how we can speak and understand their behaviors each time you take them back to the age of 5?  How is it that I can intellectually understand and even begin to forgive when I see it in those terms.  But, as soon as my memory triggers some incredible unjustice perpertrated upon me, all of that understanding goes out the window, I either get angry or depressed. 

God! These ppl are so dangerous... .they are impostors and masters of disguise... .they destroy everyone they touch. 

Exactly.

Mine seemed, for the majority of the relationship, to be pretty good at compromise. But when things fell apart he revealed that he didn't view it as compromise, but as him, martyr-like, giving me what I wanted, all self-sacrifice. He couldn't see how I, also, made sacrifices for him. And when I explained it, he seemed to forget in the blink of an eye, or determine that my sacrifices didn't count.

Mine blamed before every break up, that I am to much "grey" (and black lol) and short before she re-engage me she really tried to compromise, but it was just not her so it felt apart after a while.

We had most of the time a long distance relationship, without being me able to see the gray, we would never have met again after the honeymoon stage. My needs? First lesson you learn with a BPD, put your need back to 0 or they will show you what compromise mean in their black and white world. Its just a word for them without meaning (Helena says, just on a intellectual side), like emphatic, honesty, trust, love... .and so on ... .I think they just never learned how it works, my ex always get what she wanted from her family and from everyone... and at least from me almost everything too... so its my fault ... .i trigger her and she trigger me with all my week spots cause she knew almost everything of my fears, my sickness (I had panic attacks and a anxiety disorder as teenager, which I still have to fight with sometimes)... .and she used it almost perfectly against me... .

Oh well... .

Funny thing - I got accused for only seeing two alternatives and making too wide generalizations!

Probably since I, after a while, tried to adjust to her perception and present things as more two-dimensional.

"Either we BOTH change significantly, or this r/s have no future!"

In her world she was the one who was openminded!

The few times I suggested compromises, she cringed and was very quick to find arguments why it was not a good idea.   

OMG, How often I heard this phrase "open minded" ... I heard that non stop from her best friend too ... which I suppose has some BPD traits too... or is really co-dependent 

From a certain point of distance I can say now, that these two people are the narrow minded I ever met in my life. And even with each other, they were like this. When I was alone with my ex... she was complaining about her friend... and when I asked her "why is she your best friend, when you complain about her so much?" she said... "hmm... .but I do love her"   ... same thing when I was speaking alone with her friend... .

I like to call it the black and white world... kind of a parallel universe. Compromise will be assimilated  lol

I also think this explains why couple's counseling didn't work.

He would say that I made him look bad to the counselor. That he was always the bad guy.

I was trying to be reasonable and figure out what was going on and what we could do to fix things. That requires compromise and communication.

It was obvious that his communication skills were terrible. But, as my masters is in human communication, I know that issue can be overcome with work.

The compromise part WOW ... .Looking at the responses on this thread, it now makes perfect sense how couples therapy failed. How can you discuss anything or fix anything when there are only two options? Either he got his way or he was victimized, abused and denied.

Threads like this make me so glad to be out of that mess  :)

Interesting. Sometime in the past month, as my uBPDgf and I were having one of those long relationship conversations, I said I wanted to figure out a way for us to communicate better so that we could compromise, and she angrily said, "I don't want to be compromised with!" Not that she didn't want "to compromise," but she didn't want "to be compromised with." To her, that's an automatic negative, she said. I think she found it insulting, even, but sometimes it's hard to tell because she can pick almost anything apart in this reactionary way. She said she wants a win-win (or maybe just a win, really), and she doesn't believe compromise can do that.

My ex compromised all the time: I always gave in, and he always let me :)

M

I definitely saw this in my ex (and in her mother, also a pwBPD).  It was like their brains were hardwired to not allow them to see compromise as a normal thing.  Me asking to simply meet 50-50 would be met with endless fighting, drama, and debate.  When I could get a 50-50 agreement, it would later result in me being cast as abusive or controlling.  Also, when I could get a 50-50 agreement, within a few weeks the agreement would be violated or forgotten about.

As far as I could tell, this attitude was not a calculated attitude by someone looking to cause chaos, drive away her SO, or something like that; but rather, it seemed to be caused by a fundamental brain abnormality -- a genuine belief that meeting 50-50 was a great violation.  Also, it seemed to be driven by a belief that you're always in competition with (at war with) your SO.

Sometimes the explanation I was given was that a man should "do all the commuting", or a man should "[fill in whatever she wanted]".  I would say, "Let's see what Emily Post says or what's written online about this" -- and my pwBPD would go bananas, saying "You need to trust me -- we don't need to look at other sources."  So I guess there was some self-awareness that she didn't want to play by normal rules.   

When I confronted her about her cheating she told me she was allowed to have "friends".  What the heckFFFF? She felt "controlled" by me as well. smh... .

This is my uBPDexgf to the max. She had a custody battle that lasted way too long. Ultimately the one sticking point her exH had was not getting an extra evening every other week with his kids. She wouldn't do it, declared when they went to court that the judge would see thru to what an awful man he was and he'd be lucky to get the shirt off his back. It didn't happen that way. She ending up getting her child support cut and a host of other things that clearly showed she lost. All she really kept was saying she was primary custodial parent. At the end of the day, if she had given up the extra night, she'd have had her child support INCREASED because her exH ultimately did agree to that for the extra evening.

Her anger at losing so badly is what eventually led to me being turned into the bad guy; don't ask me how, I have no answer, and the end of our relationship. Compromise? That's when she gets her way... .

Haha.  I was just about to post the same thing.

On hindsight, I realize my ex always have issues compromising. It is either what I want, or what he wants. If i try to offer a negotiation, he will brush the negotiation off. BUT, he will give in to my request instead, but with some form of resentment. I always thought that this behavior is him not wanting me to 'compromised' on what i truly want, so he rather give up all that he wants (though with some reluctance and unhappiness) to 'make me happy'.

Maybe that's what it means by when it is thrust upon them they may feel violated, cheated, abused.

Every single time I ask for "compromise" she would (hurting300 compromise is when one person is unhappy and other one don't get what they want) there is no compromise with them.

Awesome. Mine told me in counselling that he didn't believe in compromise because it just meant one person not getting their way. Sigh. Childish. Exhausting. Hopeless. Yet tonight I am really missing him. I wonder if therapy (he is apparently doing it since last May) will resolve this or if he will never see how unreasonable he is.

I remember my ex getting mad at even the hint that there might a thought of compromise. I had invited her to go on a beach trip with my family (parents and brothers), and was really excited about it because I had never brought someone on such a trip before. She had some trouble getting time off from work, and was worried that she might not make it. I was worried that my enthusiasm about it would make her feel bad if she couldn't go, so said something along the lines of "hey, I know I've been really excited about you coming to the beach, but don't worry that I'll be upset about it or with you, work out whatever time you can and it will be fine," which to me should be reassuring. She flew into a rage at me about how I was trying to control her and how dare I be so arrogant as to presume I could tell her what to do, and did I think that just because she was moving in with me she was my puppet now?

At the time I did the excuse thing that we all do ("oh, it's just stress, and I must have said something wrong" but over time I realized that she couldn't deal with compromise even on the level of 'do whatever works for you and I'll be cool with it.'

From my experience, Borderlines view compromise as a whole entirety.  So if they have a set of ideals that they feel they are entitled to, and you concede 9 out of 10.  They view that they have compromise 50/50, or may even view that they have lost.  And be angry, and refuse to accept the compromise.

My ex fiancé could not compromise or negotiate. Like a typical borderline life is black or white. No middle ground.

This topic hits home with me.  What little form of closure I received was in the form of an e-mail about a week after she left.  In it, she listed all of her problems with our r/s and with me in particular.  One of the things she called me was uncompromising.  This wrecked me.  I was shocked that she could actually think that about me given the hoops and hurdles I went through for the sake of the r/s.  I wonder how much further I could have actually bent over?  The worst part is that when I received that e-mail, I bought every word of it.  It's take me a while to come around and see things for what they are and for me to realize that I am absolutely not the person that she painted me as. 

Then I started to remember all of the little petty fights.  All of the complaints.  She was perfect, I was flawed.  I had to fix or change to make things work.  I compromised.  She dictated.  Yuck.  And the nerve to call me uncompromising.  Yeah, that one still stings a bit.       

We're the only ones that compromise in the r/s with a pwBPD. Though I suppose it's not really compromise when we're the only ones giving something up.

Your post hit home with me.

I'd guess that many pwBPD think perhaps everything is open to compromise and if something is not then the non is uncompromising.

For instance, mine thought that my boundaries around her embarrassing me in public by flirting with other men and ignoring me was me not compromising.  Sorry, you can talk to people, but to me you have to fulfill the common "social contract" of not being an over the top, shady, idiot with it (pretty much just common sense, but we had talked about it also so she knew my views).  Perhaps you having any boundaries was you being uncompromising?

Oxymoron... .reference PD compromise :)

Yes... .boundaries mean you are a tyrant, are controlling, unreasonable. I've seen this issue arise in many different posts.  And in my r/s as well. 

Not only uncompromising but unaccepting and insecure.  Don't you love how pop psychology gives folks tons of buzzwords they can weave to justify and rationalize anything they'd like to do or did?

In the wrong hands, those words can be used as fuel for gaslighting and other crazy making behavior.  Those words get turned around and used on us and before we realize it, we've turned into their host.  Mine would constantly complain and beg for compromise.  She'd talk about how relationships were supposed to work.  It's like she was a walking, talking Pintrest quote billboard. 

Quoting empty platitudes seems authoritative and requires no actual thought or discussion.

Mine stated that people in relationships should totally accept each other.

Really?

So, if you burn all my clothes, that's cool?

Its the negotiating they dont like it is hard for them without discomfort=> dysregulating

It's because to you and I, a compromise is where if there are 10 points, each party gets 4-6 of the points they want.

To someone with BPD, a compromise is where they have given up even 1 point. So to us, we feel like they have never compromised. And to them, because they have hundreds of points, they feel they have ALWAYS compromised on EVERY ISSUE because they have always given up, either by your request or their internal choice, 1-2 of their dozens of points.

And this is how their world view works.

My BPD mother used to say that "compromise is both people feeling pissed off and resentful (or "being s--t on", depending how angry she was) precisely 50% of the time."  I think it was particularly noxious to her, because "compromise" not only meant she wasn't getting her way half the time, but it also meant that by prior agreement, she had no grounds to complain about not getting her way.  

Not that this actually stopped her complaining, but hey.  

If I brought up a way to compromise it was met with "it is always my way." I am a drama queen, I can't do anything his way. No grey area at all. His way or the high way. He would say, "who is in charge here anyway?" Bizarre. No way I could hit middle ground to appease both of us. I was taking advantage of him if I compromised.

Compromise?

Bwaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Are you kidding?

If he compromised then in his mind, he 'lost'.

Compromising to him means he didn't 'win'.

AND

He didn't get his way.

In 'his mind' he created his own reality/truth. And he manipulated real life to fit into his fantasy.

To compromise would mean accepting that his reality was fantasy.

There by showing him 'he was wrong'; and Katie Bar the Door... .that man is NEVER wrong.

Coming to a compromise was always a battle; ok. War.

For YEARS I just let him have it his way because it wasn't worth the pouting, sulking, surly silent treatment... .

When I finally started standing up for myself; that's when the wheels fell off... .

Going places, what you have said sums up my r/s and compromise.  My uBPDh has to win at all costs and now it has gotten to the point where it is costing our 30+ year r/s. 

Funny thing, he actually was a negotiator in his career and was very successful. He just doesn't want to negotiate with me.  He is always on the lookout for ways that I may be trying to control him.

I am about to surrender - and go my own way.

Mustbeabetterway... .

Your name says it all, like mine.

When I finally drew my line in the sand, and said NO MORE ABUSE is when I started "going places".

Yes there is a better way.

Like you, I was with ex 25 years.

His grandfather, father, and brother are just like him.

Win, at all cost.

THEY are always right because they are smarter than the rest of the world.

Everyone, in their mind, is 'stupid, inferior, incompetent, and out to 'beat' them".

There is more to life than sadness, conflict and abuse.

I intend to live life!

My father-in-law was undiagnosed, but with what I know now about BPD, he definitely exhibited all the traits.  Impossible to be around, but impossible to say no to.  Made me crazy.

My husband's grandfather died of a stroke before my husband was born, but supposedly he was the black sheep of the family.  His FOO was nc with him.  I suspect it runs in the family.

For a long time, I felt sorry for my h growing up in his FOO, but everyone has to be responsible for their life choices.  That is why I am taking control of my own recovery.  For far too long, I believed my happiness would come with his recovery.  Can't waste any more precious time.

Glad you are "going places".  I understand what you have been through.  Isn't it great to be among people who get it?

I was involved with someone exactly like that - she had a litany of problems, but I was told to take it or leave it.  

However, my own problems were always a green light for her to lecture, complain about and over react, to the point of starting an argument.  I was always the blame-e.

She would say "It's my way... .or the highway".  After one recycle, and a quick return to nagging and deflection, I took the highway option, much to her complete shock and surprise.  It was easy to leave, all feelings I had for her were just about drained by then.

Unfortunately, that road lead me right into another emotionally ruined female.  I had no idea until it was far too late.