BPDFamily.com

Hi all !

Thought I'd share what made a difference to me in detaching from the bond with my uBPDxgf. This came about in sessions with my T, a 25 years experienced specialist in BPD.

Normal vs Disordered relating



A partner inhabited by a disorder (BPD) CANNOT (is dysfunctional):

-Attach

-Reciprocate care-taking

-Adapt, look back and learn from mistakes for a better future

A disordered partner therefore CAN:

-Leave abruptly with no remorse/guilt/feeling bad/pain about it

-Receive your care without providing back, being self-centered and demanding

-Repeat, repeat, repeat and hoping for/expecting another outcome

A partner who has a functional personality (although perhaps 'colored' by wounds) CAN:

-Attach

-Reciprocate care-taking

-Look back and learn fro mistakes for a better future

A functional partner therefore CANNOT

-Leave abruptly with no remorse/guilt/feeling bad/pain about it (breaking attachment is painful - as we know... .)

-Receive in your care without providing back, suck you dry while not fuel you

-Repeat, repeat, repeat and hoping for/expecting another outcome


We believe we are relating to a functional partner but we are not. This is simply because there is nothing else that we can believe - we lack any other experience/conditioning than the 'normal way of things'. As our 'relationship software' has been conditioned since the stoneage for 'normal' relating, our 'relationship software' goes bananas, when the responses from the other person is abnormal. We are simply not geared to respond to or receive responses from a dysfunctional person.

The 'relationship software' we're equipped with does work in normalcy situations where attachment, reciprocity and adaptation is mutual. Wants and needs meets adaptation capabilities, and the 'dance' strives for equilibrium.

When we relate to a dysfunctional person, the attachment, reciprocity and adaptation capabilities are at work only in one partner.  We learn and adapt, while our partner remains rigid, so we learn and adapt, while our partner remains rigid... .and so on until we adapt ourselves way beyond our boundaries and exhaust ourselves emotionally. The 'relationship software' goes into zzzzzttt - system error - and then a meltdown. And this BECAUSE we are normally equipped (while the other isn't). Self awareness kicks in to conclude that we do not function in the environment that we are in. Collapse.

For me, understanding that the environment is driven by the disorder that inherently is rigid and incapable of learning and adapting - no mutual learning/adaptation as in normalcy - has been a major key for me to snap out of the trance.(btw, Im an engineer by education... .  lol)

Maybe this didn't come out as clear as I hoped for, but it really made a difference to me... .?

/Careman

Careman,

I think it did come out clearly!  Thank you for sharing this, it's really interesting and helpful.  It makes a lot of sense to me.  I especially resonate with the part about expecting the same kind of relating that I think I'm doing, and feeling really lost when I get something so shockingly different back.

I just wonder about the last bit : that the "functional" partner cannot repeat, repeat, repeat and expect a different outcome.  Hm, I think I can!  I have done that   ?  when I tried harder and harder to meet my partner's needs, hoping things would change for the better (and naturally things got worse).

Do you mean that the functional partner eventually sees this error?  Whereas a disordered partner might not be able to?

Great stuff, thanks for sharing.

heartandwhole

H&Wh

I mean that your trying 'harder and harder' is the adaptation, run by your normalcy script. You adapt by trying more/new approches/harder etc. A functional person would follow (and lead) in the dance. A dysfunctional person doesn't follow, doesn't lead, simply run autonomously by the disorder, somewhat like an automatic piano changing songs randomly, no relationship script.

/Careman

Got it!  Thanks Careman  :)

Hi careman,

Sounds like you have an excellent T! |iiii   Glad she was able to help you detach and feel good about it :) 

I hope a lot of members read this, to help them understand the dynamics too; it's not personal, it's a 'disorder'.  And this lays it out in easy to comprehend style.

Thanks for posting!

Thanks for the encouragement

:)

,

Thank you so much for this post, careman. It is really helpful in understanding my own self and why this relationship was so damaging.

I wish I had found a T who understands BPD. You gain so much by having someone who really gets it.

Thanks for sharing!

Thank you careman for this post.  This helps a lot.  I am having a hard time with 'why' can't they see it and learn.  I need to figure out how to detach.   It's so hard and I don't know why I still ruminate.

U'r welcome. Feeds my 'care'-man  lol

I had a 'standard' T before. Joined with the BPD specialist as from august. It mada all the difference. The former one dived into childhood stuff and it didn't help me. The BPD one dives into firstly my pwBPD then r/s dynamics, then myself (yet to come). She have brought me to some sort of acceptance - 'she's like that, because the illness, wont change, it made this to you'

My advice would be: find a BPD specialized T.

/Careman

The disorder is real, it creates real gaps in relating, even memory appears to not be the same as it is for us. They don't get us as much as our brains don't get them.  It's not personal, but it does effect us personally especially when we keep thinking that it's just optional mean or frustrating behavior that they could improve at any time if they loved us more. No, it's not. But a person who has concerns about their own value or self esteem, all that is going to come roaring to the surface while trying to relate to a disordered person. "it must be my fault, I did something wrong, I'm just not a lovable person, I'm not good enough". No. It has nothing to do with you.  Even with treatment, it's not like the disorder isn't there. Really getting this has been the number one reason I stopped feeling so tormented over this relationship.  It has nothing to do with us. The arguments we participate in with them etc., yes, that's our stuff.  Their disorder, their developmental

gaps have nothing to do with us.

The disorder is real.

MaybeSo !

Only 2 months ago, I wouldn't have understood your post. Now I do. Greatful ! |iiii  

Wer'e not dealing wtih an individual with a functional (but perhaps skewed) personality, wer'e dealing with an individual with a dysfunctional personality. Relating thereto entails ... .

            ... .well... .

                        ... .a life experience beyond the normal

/Careman

Maybeso... .great post. I need to remember this. Thank you!  |iiii

Really, really helpful information Careman.  It makes perfect sense.

A partner inhabited by a disorder (BPD) CANNOT (is dysfunctional):

-Attach

-Reciprocate care-taking

-Adapt, look back and learn from mistakes for a better future

A disordered partner therefore CAN:

-Leave abruptly with no remorse/guilt/feeling bad/pain about it

-Receive your care without providing back, being self-centered and demanding

-Repeat, repeat, repeat and hoping for/expecting another outcome

A partner who has a functional personality (although perhaps 'colored' by wounds) CAN:

-Attach

-Reciprocate care-taking

-Look back and learn fro mistakes for a better future

A functional partner therefore CANNOT

-Leave abruptly with no remorse/guilt/feeling bad/pain about it (breaking attachment is painful - as we know... .)

-Receive in your care without providing back, suck you dry while not fuel you

-Repeat, repeat, repeat and hoping for/expecting another outcome

Really, really helpful information Careman.  It makes perfect sense.

This is exactly what I needed right now. It gives me clarity and strength. I have to admit my first reaction was, how can I explain this to him (my pwBPD)? But that's the point. We can't. We are speaking different languages.

The one thing he always says that hurts me when we are getting down to the core of our problems is, What have you ever done to be there for me? How have you been a caring and supportive girlfriend when all you did is shoo me off to therapy?

I tried, I tried so hard and so many ways, but how do you expain this to someone if he doesn't already see it? I'm trying so hard to tell myself that you don't. You can't. It won't work. Remember who you are, who you were before they came along, and don't let them change you or tell you otherwise.

P4me !

I think you hit the point 'Remember who you are, who you were before they came along'.

I believe it is paramount to understand and accept that one (dysfunctional) person can have immense impact on another. And that you can revert to and grow from the 'who you were before'.

I engaged with a therapist specialized in BPD as from late august. This has been VERY helpful. Previously I had a non-expert T, which wasn't very helpful. With my T, in steps, and moving into the core insight from different facets, I have come to accept that

-it is the disorder that runs the show

-the disorder makes her feelings and behaviors

-BECAUSE Im functional personality, I react and 'get sick'

-the disorder wont change, but I will BECAUSE Im functional, Ill get even sicker

So when you say 'don't let them change you' I think that is not realistic - they will !

Being functional is a blessing in normalcy situations, but in the vicinity of a dysfunctional individual it can be a blight.

/Careman

Careman,

Can you keep posting more material about what you learned through your specialist?  Seriously, everything you're writing is a big help and helping bring back some sanity to my life. 

Your posts are an AWESOME help!

Thanks P4, I will. And I'll forwar to my T.  :) You can have a look at my other 'sharing' threads. Also in the 'snapped out of it' thread there is some. It is stuff coming out from my T-sessions.

As you may understand it has been immensely helpful for me too. Therefore I wanna share.

/Careman

 -

Hi Careman,

This is the first thread I've followed and I feel like I've already learned so much!  I'm the girlfriend of a man who's trying to get a divorce from a woman with BPD but she keeps blocking and bullying him.  He's gotten very good at letting it roll off his back, but the pain I see in him is painful to me as well.  I get so angry watching her continuing to be so mean but reading your posts has made it clearer to me that it's the disorder that's driving her.  I hope to some day have sympathy for her but it's too soon yet.  I just can't get past the way she used her children to hurt him and serve her own needs and I also can't get past the cruel things she has said to me.  I'm working in it, though!  BTW, I have had no contact in any way with her.  She has baited me, but I stay silent.

Thank you for your insights.  It makes it easier to tolerate when I know that there's no reasoning with this disorder.

Tracy500

Ur welcome tracy, and welcome to the boards

/Careman

This is excellent.  I am laughing a little because I used the same sort of metaphor talking to a friend--I keep trying to run a program and what he says "does not compute."  It's because I am running a "wounded but functional" program.  Thank you!

Love it, it makes perfect sense and does  bring clarity. You can only try to relate for so long with them before you finally go... .  zzzzztttt. Detaching is  very important for your own mental health. Thanks careman for sharing.

I smile  :) thanks for the feedback.

Another simillar metaphor - 

a car having all 4 wheels and a steering wheel in the front seat although perhaps with a flat tyre, but here comes a car looking thing with 3 wheels and the steering wheel in the back seat, and the driver has to carry the car looking thing around because of the missing wheel, while nobody is at the steering wheel... .  

/Careman

Yeah. Detaching's important. Here's another thread I started sharing what helped me detach. Its about deterioration of self-esteem

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=187665.0;topicseen

/Careman

Thank you for sharing this.

Your lucky to have T who understands this disorder so much to be gotten form that I think. My T although great in many ways dismisses any mention of BPD as not relevant and has said to be no matter what the reason for dysfunctional it was an emotionally abusive and dangerous situation.

Careman,

I have to say this thread has been one of the most helpful and supportive in my own journey.  I myself have been reading extensively lately about detachment and about the healthy benefits for our own lives as well as the lives of those we love and care about.  I'd like to share something that has also been helpful in my own healing, I hope this hasn't been mentioned in any of the posts prior to mine, if so, I apologize for repeating.  A book that I'm reading right now, that has daily thoughts on detachment/letting go is called: "Let go now; embracing detachment (Set boundaries and make your life your own)" by Karen Casey.  I have found great comfort in this book, maybe it will be one that will help others here as well. 

I can't thank you enough for posting this, it truly is a thread I will read over and over.    :)

Faith

Faith !

Thanks a lot for showing appreciation. It's a bumpy road in the aftermath of my toxic r/s. 11 months out, and still diving at times. Yeah, it has been helpful to me too. Been reading my own posts over and over. It's not really 'mine', it is stuff I got from sessions with my T. my own favorites are the ones on deterioration of self-esteem, and the one about relating. Will check up on your book-tip - thanks for sharing.

/Careman

I needed that today

Faith !

Just ordered the  book.  :)

/Careman

careman,

I'm so glad you were able to order it!  I read from it each morning and have found it very helpful and inspiring.  I'm in the best place I've been at in years now and I really believe that embracing detachment and letting go of controlling everyone/everything else has been the key.  All I can do in my life is control my own actions and decisions, it makes for a happier life for me, letting go and enjoying living in the moment. 

Take care and thanks again!  |iiii

I wanted to thank you for recommending that book.  I too purchased it.  I have already learned a lot of things from reading it and look forward to implementing some of the changes I see I need to make in myself.

I can really relate to the author.  Especially in defining my value based on the reactions of others.  Wow.  I had to write that paragraph down when I read it.

recoil,

I'm glad that you found the book helpful as well.  I wanted to mention another one I read daily that is by the author who wrote "Co-Dependent No More", Melody Beattie.  It's called "More Language of Letting Go".  It has 365 daily meditations which are faith-based and focus on having healthy connections with the people in our lives.  This has also been a book that has offered me much guidance and support.  

Peace to you!  :)

Faith !

Book just arrived. Have been reading the posts of member 2010, and still do. There is 799 of them. HIGHLY recommended !

/Careman

Hi Careman,

I'm so glad it came, you will find a lot of comfort in it.  I highly recommend the one I told recoil about also... .  More Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie. That one has been such a good resource for me as well.  

Take care!  :)

:)

Careman,

Thank you for caring enough to post what you did.  I sure needed to hear it right now while I'm struggling with maintaining NC. 

This first part confuses me quite a bit, as I feel that my ex attached too much - she wouldn't let me out of her sight, and said part of me was missing when she wasn't there... .  but I guess it wasn't a healthy attachment, as it was suddenly not needed when she had made an attachment to somebody new!

For me, detaching is taking ages... .  some days I do better than others - still not there yet!

It helps when she acts like a complete (insert swear word of your choice here!), as it helps me to understand that she isn't the person I knew and loved... .  

I have hidden her on facebook, but sometimes take a sneaky peak (which I know is frowned upon!) but it helps quite a bit, as she is acting like such an idiot!

Btw, does anyone know who member 2010 is or at least his/her background... .  psychologist?  Very informative... .  

Yes, awesome!

I think this is similar to something my T also finally pounded into my pointy little head (he is also a BPD specialist). He explained over and over until I got it that my husband (bipolar/psychotic features/ASPD/NPD) is simply not capable of the genuine and sincere emotional interaction required in an intimate relationship. Sure, he's a jerk sometimes--after all I'm pushing him to do something he doesn't even understand, let alone why. From his perspective, I'm trying to make him feel incompetent and insecure about himself. So yeah--he's defensive and rude.

NOTE TO SELF: he's not capable of the sincere and genuine emotional interaction required in an intimate relationship.

Trying to MAKE him be is akin to smashing myself in the face with a brick over and over and over.

My first BPD relationship caused me a nervous breakdown.

In my second i could feel it coming, that was when i stopped it. My own self defense kicked in and told me it was time becuase there was no hop and i would end up back where i vowed i would never go again.

Part of my is proud of myself for this but I knew from day one and now I beat myself up over the fact I didnt trust my gut feelings, or walk away from day one when all the red flags were not only there but slapping me square in the forehead.

My T says I am emotionally healthy but i don't trust myself enough. Both times I had that gut feeling but I ignored it because I do not have enough belief in me and my wants and needs. I put theirs first.

Mango !

As I have come to understand, reading here on the boards, and books, and my T, a pwBPD does not attach in the meaning of the word given by the attachment between two healthy people. A pwBPD is empty inside ('I have a big empty hole inside' and the depth with which we functional people attach just doesn't exist inside our pwBPD. We may feel a deep attachment ( I certainly did - in episodes ), but they don't. Their BPD-attachment is more like looking to satisfying their needs, using us to that end - be it safety/security, be it not feeling alone/aboandonned, be it validation, be it... .  what not.

When the 'attachment' wording in the original post is concerned, it is the 'healthy' meaning that is alluded to.

/Careman

 ,