BPDFamily.com

I'm trying to be proactive in the divorce process.  My BPDw has pretty thoroughly declared that she does not intend to be in a marriage, but she has no intention of leaving.  So it's on me.  I was wishy washy about it as long as I could stand.  Once she recanted her declaration that she didn't want to break up, I was done.  Cried for days over it, then stressed, now I'm starting to act.

I scheduled a legal consult for Friday.  I have two separate therapy sessions today since I have a session scheduled with my old counselor and I can't reach her to cancel.  So I'll go to both.  I could use it.

I read Splitting, a book recommended here.  It has me a little nervous about the whole process, but also has me aiming to be assertive in the process.  I'm trying to be prepared for anything.  One of the recommendations the book put forth (not sure if it said it in so many words, but the message was clear) was to consult an attorney before declaring my intention to divorce to my BPDw.  Not sure how long I can sit on that conversation, but I'll try. 

My wife is high functioning (has job, no arrests) and I intend to share custody.  I'm hoping we can work that out cordially, but I doubt it.  And division of property will be tricky, but I think we can get there.  House/small business assets/furniture will be the biggies.  Most of what we own are things she wanted so she will feel entitled to them.  We have equitable incomes so alimony/child support should be non-issues.

Not sure what else I need to discuss with the lawyer.  I don't anticipate hard core punitive batles.  But then, I didn't anticipate a lot that has happened.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.


While that is certainly a hopeful approach, it's probably not practical.  Beware of being too fair, too nice, too whatever.  For most of us, it wasn't just a custody struggle, War was waged on us.

If you make offers, be sure to ask for a little more than you expect to walk out with.  (Don't worry about having to look super 'fair', she will ask for A LOT more.)  Being fair walking into negotiations would put you at a disadvantage.  Imagine going before a judge and you requesting 50/50 but her asking for 99/1.  The risk is too high for the judge to split the difference from the start and you barely ending up with just alternate weekends.  Yes, maybe you would end up with alternate weekends anyway, but try to find ways for the judge not to make that decision simply because it's an 'easy' shortcut.

Something we've noticed in most case... .Your spouse can misbehave and even make false allegations but face few if any consequences.  On the other hand, you can behave well consistently and yet receive no credit.  Not fair, but that's often how things are.

By the way, even though you both work and have comparable income, if she ends up with majority time, then you'll likely have to pay her child support.

She will have a hard time winning majority time unless she goes for pure lies.  That would get ugly and she would be pretty severely injured in the process.  I really hope this isn't going to go that direction.  It has been discussed before and 50/50 was the consensus.  Bu yeah, it's hard to say what will happen.

My custody offer will open with (pending lawyer's support): D5 with me on school nights and one weekend a month, with mother 3 weekends a month, even split on 5th weekends when they occur.  During summer, a 2:1 split in favor of mother.  I might start at 1:1 split ad work toward 2:1.  And even share of driving to exchange custody.

There will be issues here, particularly the weekends (W works Saturdays at irregular intervals) but that's the opening offer.  Really my W doesn't see much of our daughter 3-4 nights a week anyway.  I know my lawyer will recommend a simpler split, every other week or something, but it isn't as practical for our current situation.

I'm quite scared as to how she will react and what this will become.  If the word "abuse" comes up, it'll be hell.  I have certainly never abused either daughter or wife, but it seems a favorite BPD thing to say.  Maybe that book has me paranoid.  Or just prepared. 

Many members here were pressured and manipulated to divulge information to the spouse.  Virtual interrogations through demands and guilting.  Now that you are pondering divorce, that has to stop.  Sad but true.  You can't divulge your conversations and strategies with lawyers or else you'd likely be handing over ammunition to be used against you.  Don't sabotage yourself, she'll do enough of that without your help.  So do remember that you have a right to privacy and confidentiality.

Fultus, just be prepared, it might get uglier. My SO started out thinking he could get 50/50 and get her to agree (she did at first until she realized that they weren't getting back together) and now, 1.5 years later, we are at her trying to get sole custody, alleging emotional and physical abuse, alienating their son and generally making wild allegations.

My SO's first two lawyers were not fantastic. He went in asking for 50/50, she wanted full custody.  He kept asking for 50/50, it got uglier and uglier (though the judge has kept it at 50/50). Not until the third lawyer, who asked for SO to get full custody and her to get supervised visits, did she start to get nervous and behave herself a bit.

My SO has gone through so much in realizing just how nasty and vindictive she could be. The court system fuels and encourages it.  And his ex is extremely high-functioning. She's just really, really good at convincing everyone that he is the problem.

2 basic things to prepare for the lawyer (plus any questions you may have):

* Be prepared to tell her very clearly what your objectives are.  For example, what you think the best custody outcome will be, and basic $ issues.  Then watch how she responds.  Many attorneys will immediately - without knowing much about your case - begin to try to talk you out of those objectives.  They have found that it's easier to get their client to reduce his expectations, than it is to help him achieve them.  Those attorneys are losers - if she responds like that, don't hire her.

* If the attorney accepts your objectives - she won't give you any guarantees, but if she accepts that these are the goals you are asking her to help you achieve - then ask her for a clear plan to achieve them.  Step by step, what options do you have - what motions might be filed - what will be the path from where you are to where you want to get.  She may ask for a day or two to respond, and that's reasonable.  But if she tells you not to worry, she knows what she's doing - as my first attorney did - then she's a loser, so don't hire her.

What you want is an attorney who will hear your objectives and accept them (unless they are super-unreasonable), and who will give you a plan (not a guarantee) to achieve them.  If you can find someone like that - who also has experience with similar cases, so you can judge that she knows what she's talking about - that's who you are looking for.

Just talked to my lawyer. We are trying to do this uncontested. If e need to, my wife and I well get a third party mediator, but not mediation per say. I think the terminology in this state might be non-standard. Anyway, I have my legal advice and now I need to talk to her. We need to try top talk things out. We really can't afford to fight, financially.

I'm scared as hell about this talk. She's been pretty decent lately. She's going to say "of course yoru want one now. I was just starting to feel good about you again." She feels good about things because I'm staying our of her way and not expecting anything resembling affection or support or disclosure or even honesty. We watch television together and interact with/talk about D5. We are cohabiting and little more.

It's going to be one hell of a weekend. Pray for me.

Fultus

What is your Plan B, if she doesn't respond positively?

Plan B?  Umm... .it depends on the reaction.  I'm prepared to pursue a contested divorce if that is where it goes.  I have some financial backing from my parents if need be, but they have a lot more debt than I do so they aren't free to fling money around.

My BPDw's normal means to deal with bad news is to be as unemotional as possible, letting anger seep through sometimes.  I'll get accusations of plotting this all along or something, but there won't be much to do about it other than persevere.  There are places I can stay for a couple nights if it gets too bad.  I want us both to stay in the house through Xmas for our daughter's sake (birthday and Xmas back-to-back. 

I'm as prepared as I can be.  I set up a personal bank account and credit card in case of financial attack.  I warned my lawyer that there could be false accusations if things really get out of hand.  Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. 

That sounds good.  I think it's very important, when you hope to settle out of court, to know what your plan is, if that doesn't work.  The other party will probably sense it;  if you seem to need the settlement too much, depriving you of that - or delaying - becomes more likely.  But if you go into it with the best intentions - bargaining in good faith - but also with a solid plan in case the other party doesn't play nice, then she will pick up that you will settle along reasonable lines or move forward toward a contested divorce, and she'll be more likely to work something out.

People with BPD often fight for the sake of fighting.  Your best chance to get a quick, simple settlement is to be very prepared to take another path if needed.

Hopefully it will not be too bad.  But here's a few words of warning just in case.

False allegations... .be proactive in defending yourself.  Don't wait until the metaphorical fur starts flying and then try to think how to handle it.  That's too late to make strategic decisions on the spur of the moment.

If she seems to maneuvering (or surprises you) for an excuse to make an allegation, remember... .

• Don't restrain her if she starts hurting herself.



• If she blocks an exit, don't push past her, that could morph into "I was grabbed and shoved up against the wall and choked." If she's upset then beware of even the slightest touch.  Maybe for your spouse it might help her calm down, I don't know, but for many others it can make things worse.



• Of course, don't slap, grab, whatever.



• Of course, even if you don't do anything she could self-harm to claim you did something to her.



• Of course, even if you don't do anything she could still allege something even if there is no evidence.



• Call the emergency responders such as 911 for help, but be aware that if this is the first 911 call it could trigger her into worse behaviors, though if it is that bad you probably can't avoid it getting worse.  She will do or not do what she will or will not do.  You just do what you have to do, cautiously.

Are some of the above Ridiculous? Yes.  Ever happened? Yes.  Have some members here been arrested? Yes.

Keep in mind that if you leave for self-protection, you don't want to stay gone unless you take the children with you.  If you leave them behind then later on the professionals may be swayed to feel it wasn't that bad since you left the kids with her.  So ponder that, if it's not safe for you, why would it be safe for the kids?

Be aware that courts and others seem to go by a philosophical double standard, postulating that a person can have poor or even potentially abusive adult behaviors while at the same time not negatively affecting the parenting behaviors.  Doesn't make sense, but that's a concept you may encounter in the courts.  In my case, a high-conflict one, I had a temp protection order - TPO - that wasn't dismissed for almost 5 months.  However despite my apparent need for protection in one court from my then-spouse, family court gave her temporary custody of our child even though she was not allowed near me or in our home during those 5 months.

Many devices these days can record such as cell phones, MP3 recorders, voice recorders, etc.  Know how to quietly turn them on without anyone noticing.  (Remember, you would never need to reference a recording if nothing happens.)  Then you have a way to defend yourself in case a seemingly indefensible allegation is made.  If never needed, then years from now you can decide to delete them.  Some have worried about living in a restrictive recording state, they say to give notice if starting to record.  It could go both ways in my view.  Consider the options - do you want (possibly high) risk not having anything to defend yourself if charged with a crime or do you want the (minimal) risk of a judge telling you not to record?

Only you know your situation.  These are some ideas and concepts for you to consider and be forewarned.  She doesn't sound very confrontational or possessive (as my ex was/is) but you never know for sure what will happen when the feathers are ruffled.  One indicator, has your spouse ever threatened to call the police, make allegations, block your parenting, etc?  If so, then your risk heading into a separation period is higher than you think.

I'm assuming that any discussion directly between the parties would be in a public place, like a Starbucks or the food court at a mall, where there are others around.  And/or bring a non-family adult third party.  You absolutely should not be alone with someone who may have BPD and with whom you are in conflict, or negotiating a settlement.  As FD suggests, the risk is too high, that the person with BPD could create an incident or make an accusation.

I'm one of those FD is referring to, who have experienced this - not during a negotiation - actually I was sitting on the bed playing my guitar at the time - and who spent the night in jail as a result.  And now there is a public record - available to anybody online, and which can never be purged - saying I was charged with assault.  The lesson I learned was to never be alone with someone with BPD, without a non-family adult third party present.  Especially if you are discussing things that may be stressful, like a divorce.

I don't see how i would have this discussion in public since we are never in public together without our daughter. And we sure aren't talking about it in front of her. I did download a one touch recorder app for my phone so i can get the discussion on tape without being too conspicuous.  If i try to arrange a Starbucks string, she is going to feel ambushed and that will get us nowhere.

Very nervous but thinking of talking tonight. Think I'll pack a bag first, just in case.

Why not ask a mutually-trusted friend to join the two of you to discuss it at Starbucks or McDonalds?

"We are never in public together without our daughter" - this is a subject that should not be discussed with someone who you think might have BPD, without a non-family adult third party present, or in a public place.

I don't see me pulling off a public meet up. Or even a private meet with a third party. Our pastor (also a recently divorced friend) is the best candidate, but she'll feel ambushed for sure, like it's some kind of intervention.  It might jeopardize the smoothness of the process.

I... .I just don't know. I appreciate the advice and see the wisdom in it, but I'd like to hear others sound off. Do I really need a live third party present when I declare my intention to divorce? - When I say it like that, it goes both ways: it's such a private issue but also such a bombshell.   Help!

ETA: I am postponing said discussion until at least tomorrow to consider feedback and sleep on it.

Your intention to divorce.  How far are you along in that?  Does the lawyer have the papers drawn up and ready?  (Or whatever preparations you feel are needed.)  I ask because stating you "intend to divorce" could be heard as ":)eclaration of War".  If she has BPD, perceptions mean far more than reality, especially if this comes out of the blue, so to speak.  Yes, it may not happen but how prepared are you if things go south?

If you have nothing prepared and she overreacts, you may have to scramble to to try to keep up.

You may not need someone there, but can you have someone 'on call' for the next 24-48 hours who you can dial and can hear what's happening if need be, someone who can call 911 for you if it gets really extreme?

In my case, one of us went to jail.  I think I was at high risk when I called the police, they asked me to hand my sobbing preschooler over to his mother and step away.  Scary thought, right?  Well, son screeched and clung to me tighter, so the officer just looked at me for a long moment then said "work it out" and they departed.  I now look back and say, "My son probably saved me that day and he didn't even know it."  Imagine, a child who was scared to go to his mother?  Later when I played my recording of the 911 call plus before and after raging, she was arrested for threat of DV.  Sure, it was dismissed a few months later but if I didn't have that my case would have turned out far different.

It sure isn't how I'm planning to say it, but it is likely how it will be received.  And it is probably what its is at the message's core.  We've talked about the possibility.  I've told her that I know it's over. 

I don't have papers drawn up, but my lawyer was collecting info to start the paperwork.  I don't see anything she could do that could make me trust her.  Too much pain for too long.  The simple thought of leaving is incredibly painful, rivaled only by the thought of staying and the memory of what our marriage has been like for the past year+. 

This is not new for me, a fear of discussing an issue with my wife.  I'm trying to figure out how to make this happen with support, but I don't know.

Hi Fultus,

I agree with the advice FD and Matt has given you. Please seriously consider it as they have already gone through their divorce with pwBPD and are here to help guide us with their experiences.


You may have mentioned about the divorce before to your wife but at the time, your tone and body language may have been interpreted differently by your wife. But now that you are really serious about it, your body language and tone will reflect that and she might flip out. 

I wish you the best,

withBPD

Every case is the same but different.  The same in that you're dealing with someone whose subjective perceptions and moods guide their lives, yet different in that there is a wide range of behaviors and responses.  We can't say that you will have an incident but the odds are much higher than with a reasonably normal couple who is separating and going down the divorce path.  So for that reason we want you to be prepared if your conversation does morph into an incident, big or small.

For many of us here, it was a very volatile time, largely because we were/are dealing with a volatile spouse/ex.  Also, consider the fact that we arrived her because the conflict was so intense we needed peer support.  It's entirely possible that less conflictual marriage spouses never find their way here to seek support, we'll never know how many they are or the exact ratio.

I know in my case that my ex fitted all the traits of Paranoid PD, most of Borderline and some of Narcissistic.  Before we separated there were months she seemed to just moan and groan at home part of the time, seemingly low functioning, then demanding and controlling at other times.  But since we separated she's been high functioning as well as super-possessive.  I've weathered every possible child abuse allegation over the years.  She still tries to find fault with my parenting.

Maybe your wife is less conflictual.  No one can predict how your wife will react when facing what she may see as Abandonment at The End.  Be aware.  Be prepared (just in case).

I have come up with only one viable option for a public setting: church. Yeah, not the best choice and don't really want an audience, but it is the setting I can arrange. Still seems like am ambush. Maybe I'll prep someone to contact in case of emergency as someone suggested.

Wife was just planning a rendezvous with her parents for tomorrow. I'm dragging this or and making things worse. I need to quit winning and treat her like an adult. Yes, I'll need some backup, but I don't need to put her on her heels. I'll let you know how it goes.

Don't overthink things, just be reasonably prepared and reasonably safe as possible.

BPDw had been extra nice today, but has been trying to make long term plans. Really can't put this off. Not going to be easy. I've been rehearsing so i can hopefully talk for at lest a few minutes without years, since crying really possess her off and I am a crier. 

Pray for us both, but especially for my daughter.

Well that is over.

Told BPDw that it's over. Nothing exploded. No one yelled. I treated up a bit, but it was pretty controlled for me. She folded up blame and placed it neatly in my lap, but if deciding the divorce is all my doing helps her handle the process, I can live with that. It's not like I expected her to beg me to stay. She still has no idea why I have been

hurrying for the past 9 months - years, really, but acutely for 9 months.

A lot was said, mostly by her, but I don't think any of it matters. Mostly how I was just to hurt and I should have gotten over it. She claims to have been finally starting to get over her most recent hurt (something I said a month ago). And she was being nicer, but I don't believe in it anymore.

I realize I'm not out of the woods here. She could pop at any time for any our no reason, but I think I got the best reaction I could hope for. Honestly, I think this is what she had (consciously or not) been working toward for a lon m time: me divorcing her and the decision being mine. Not a reaction to some stunt, not a fight that ends in lawyers, but me deciding to end it and her telling me it's my fault. Not once did she even ask me to stay, just warned of consequences (though none seemed to be threats).

I'll give it a couple days before I approach her about negotiating the split. I'm going to try to get a mediator without involving lawyers, but my lawyer is standing by if I need him. This is not the first step on this road, but it's a step that changed the pavement.

Keep us in your prayers.

Fultus

I was thinking about you.   


Strange sometimes, isn't it? My xh could make whole drama about a dust bin, but stayed more or less cool about divorce... .

But I agree with you about not being out of the woods. I will keep you in my thoughts for the negotiating!

How do you feel right now?

Surnia

I feel like a jerk. I feel like a quitter and a failure. I also feel strong and grown-up. A lot of sadness, a lot of fear. I guess more sadness than anything else.

She treated me from her bedroom saying she wanted me to try. It made me sad because I don't wasn't to try anymore. It was also insulting because it suggests I hadn't been trying every day of the past 12 years.

She blames me for feeling hurt and not getting over it. But she doesn't near any of the blame for causing my pain. That is who I am married to; that is who I am leaving. I have to remember who she is. The nice person, the hurt person is going to emerge. The person who needs my help. But that's not who I am being asked to stay with. I did not reach this decision lightly and I can't let a plea or two change me. My plead all went unanswered and I made a great many. It's time to accept what my marriage was and move toward some healing. Time to get off the rollercoaster.

Thanks to everyone here for their advice and support. I'm sure I'll need a lot more of it.

Fultus

This may be the right time to take a step or two back, away from frequent and intimate conversations with her.  If they are not leading toward a stronger relationship, they may be only making you more confused, and they might also be making her think you're on the fence when you're really not.

At some point, we each have to step away from the relationship altogether, and put it on only a business basis, and concentrate instead on the practical steps needed to move in a different direction.  It is a big loss - we grieve - and it may be harder to get through that if you try to stay close to her.

Agreed.  We need to discuss the terms of the divorce, and that should probably be with a third party mediator.  Not sure she'll agree to such mediation, but she did agree that we should make this smooth and uncontested, as much for our daughter as anything.

We are both staying in the house through Christmas, again for D5 (who will be D6 in 5 days).  I expect we'll file early in the new year assuming we can make some ground on negotiations between now and then.  I'm starting to look at houses, though it's a bit premature for that since I don't know what we're doing with the one we have.  I'll start to organize my possessions (our house is quite a clutter zone) but I won't pack anything until after Christmas, likely after the new year. 

I have a bag packed with some essentials in case I need to leave in a hurry.  There may be a storm when BPDw realizes that I'm not changing my mind.  I'm pretty convinced that she wants me to stay because she fears change; it has practically nothing to do with me.  I guess most of our relationship has had practically nothing to do with me.  No matter what she tries to tell me, that has not changed. 

She's in angry mode this morning.  She went to church, so maybe she'll find some support there.  Not my role anymore.  I am finally trying to support myself.

Let's talk about the negotiation process.

Do you have an outcome that you think would be best?  Who lives where, who takes care of your daughter when, and basic money issues?

Could you prepare an offer with those basics, so she could consider it, and see how she responds?

That might tell you whether an out-of-court negotiation process, with a mediator, is likely to work, or whether she may not be able to take part in that productively.

If she is not able to negotiate productively, then you will need to learn about the court process and figure out how to get through it without her cooperation.

So, I talked to uBPDw about divorce on Saturday night.  She blamed me for the problems in the marriage and removed herself from any responsibility in the conclusion of divorce.  She sent me a text from her bedroom (which has not been my bedroom in years) saying "I would really like you to try. I want to."  This after years of tenuous relations at best and a full year of intolerable conflict.

Sunday she ignored me as much as possible.

Today is Monday.  The pleas have begun (resumed, if you count the one from Sunday night).  So has the finger pointing.  All via text message.  "I think you're making the wrong decision... .I can wait for you to stop hurting... .I can't believe you are choosing to do this to D5... .We don't have the money for this... .You can try a little longer... ."  To that last I replied: No, I can't. 

The texts have stopped for the moment.  I probably responded to more than I should have.  I don't intend to respond to any more.  (I guess that doesn't mean I won't.)  I am taking screenshots of the messages so I can keep a record, just in case it becomes an issue later. 

I have to keep reminding myself why I can't keep trying, why this decision is made now.  There is no rebuilding what has been torn down.  I don't believe her anymore.  I'd be stupid to believe her.  I've been on this ride before and it isn't worth the price of admission to have no fun and be sick when it's over. 

No Contact really isn't an option.  I don't have a long term place to go and D5's birthday is Friday, with Xmas right around the corner.  We just need to avoid each other as much as possible.

I'm bracing myself for more dramatic attempts, especially sexual.  A lack of sex has been a serious point of contention throughout our marriage and I have always been very attracted to her.  I won't be surprised if she tries to convince me/herself that more sex is the solution to our problems.  I don't think she would put herself out there so much as to wait for me in a neglige or anything -- she's not willing to face that level of rejection.  Anyway, my mind is set against this tactic and my heart, while still feeling for her, does not trust her.  I just need to be sure I let those two organs do all the decision making.  She has manipulated me this way before, but always when it was something I wanted anyway.  I believe I am stronger than my libido.  [repeats this mantra to himself over and over]

I have to remember that I don't need to convince her of anything.  It will be impossible.  Just that I want a divorce.  Her fear of abandonment is what is fighting it.  And a fear of change.  There is no great love for me.  And loving her doesn't feel good anymore. 

Make very, very sure you are in firm control of birth control (if there is any risk of a creating another child).  While children are wonderful blessings, another child just adds more complications to an already dysfunctional relationship.  Many a divorce has been sabotaged by "Oops, I forgot. We have another on the way. Now you can't leave me. (smirk)"

Ooo, yes.  That.  Well, I don't expect things to come to that, but yes, maybe I'll hide the condoms just in case. 

Still, like we teach kids in this country, there is only one surefire way to not get pregnant.  I plan on using that one.

I wanted to give my uBPDw a little time to process my desire to get a divorce.  Well, it's been most of a week.  And tomorrow is D5 D6's birthday, so tonight an tomorrow are bad days to push the issue. 

Still, like the last few years of our marriage, she has opted to mostly ignore this serious issue other than a few desperate, imperious text messages.  I am ready to start moving on.  I need to give things a nudge toward formally negotiating custody, property, etc.

The dynamic of the house is almost exactly what it was 2-3 weeks ago: mutually ignoring each other, both of us awning over D6 when possible, trying to stay out of each others' way.  I think that may be confusing my W -- since things seem the same, nothing has changed.  And effectively nothing has beyond me sharing my desire to make the big change to split.  My mind s not changing on this and I'm not sure she gets it. 

I think I may draft a separation agreement myself as a starting point to negotiations.  I have a lot of things in my head, but quite a few need to be quantified. 

I guess I'm really just checking in.  I am SO ready for 2012 to be over.  And this marriage to be over.  I'm looking at the divorce with more optimism every day.  The simple idea that I can start waking up and thinking about what I want out of the day for myself and not how I can fit my day around hers... .it's going to be a huge change in my life that will take some time to embrace.  But it feels so nice to think I might have my own life again.  It's been a long time.

Fultus,

 That sounds just awful, being stuck in the same home with her while this happens.

My SO relished his freedom when he moved out and would still never undo what he did in leaving despite how ugly it's gotten for him. The most important thing will be to keep your eye on the ways your W will try to influence D6 (Happy Birthday to her!  :)). It can get ugly quickly and you won't know about it right away. Just make sure you watch for red-flag , especially when you move out and don't see her every day.

Those red flags would be the obvious like her saying stuff that you know she didn't think up herself, "Why did you leave us Daddy?" etc, but the subtle, too, like crying when she leaves her mom or being angry at you for no reason. Kids often keep quiet about what's being said to them for a long time.

You might even want to proactively get D6 a therapist that you pick and like NOW, so that your wife doesn't do that later and find someone she can influence against you. You can easily say you are doing it to help D6 through the divorce and separation.

It will get uglier, though, keep that in mind. My SO's ex has never and will never take responsibility for the damage she caused. The affair she had was his fault because he wasn't a good enough husband. The best he got was "I'm sorry it hurt you" which isn't the same as "I'm sorry I did that wrong thing". It's hard to let go and accept that you will never, ever hear those words from her. She isn't capable of it.

Another   for good measure. And yes, keep your own condoms handy. My SO's stbxw also tried to get pregnant again when they were separated. Thank goodness it didn't work.

Abstinence is preferable but, just in case, remember that a condom could be sabotaged beforehand.  Also, used condoms left behind are potentially dangerous too.  I recall one crime show that had a guy charged with rape by a woman he'd never met, yet the DNA matched.  How?  Turned out the spouse had retrieved a used condom, sent it to someone who staged a claimed rape.  Of course, the conspiracy unraveled by the end of the episode.

My point is that a determined wife may find an unexpected way to get pregnant anyway.  Not that this will happen, but it could.

I was in your shoes almost two years ago.  I was hoping my uBPD STBXw would agree to a reasonable settlement so we could both move on.  Slowly I realized this wasn't going to happen.  She hired a lawyer and stopped talking to me.  The more I read on this board and others, the more I realized that this was only going to end in trial.  pwBPD don't want the drama to end, ever.  We were supposed to have a settlement conference with the judge last week but she was able to have it delayed so now I have to wait another month or two.


My advice is to hunker down and get ready for the siege.  This will probably take a very, very long time.  Two years is average around here.  Meanwhile, get lots of Daddy time with the children and document it to show for custody negotiations.  Focus on your health and well-being.  All of this will be over, but not anytime soon.

Progress is... .a pipe dream. 

D6's birthday was a mommy-bust.  She "had a headache" and spent a 2 of D6's 4 waking after-school hours in bed, stomping around the house in a silent but pissy mood while she was awake, even going so far as to snap at D6 every time she asked to open presents. 

Today wasn't much better.  I wanted us to take D6 out to lunch and a movie.  W had rehearsals for band and choir, but she did have time to join us for lunch.  She dragged her feet getting ready to leave so that she only had 30 minutes at the restaurant with us, which wasn't terrible.  She didn't order anything.  It was one of the more (but not most) uncomfortable lunches I can recall ever enduring.  She did manage to make the birthday cake she didn't make last night (for D6's actual birthday). 

She came home from her rehearsals and commented on the lack of progress cleaning the living room, a task she hadn't so much as asked me to do and she certainly hasn't attempted.  She has no patience with D6, and D6 has been acting out a lot, requiring a lot of patience. 

I took D6 to the movie.  I am the one that got D6 birthday presents.  I am doing all I can to assure D6 that mommy and daddy both love her, showing her as much love from me as possible while still correcting inappropriate behavior.  You know... .parenting.  And I'm trying hard to not ask W about her feelings; she never told them to me when I was her husband, I see no reason she would start now that I'm leaving.  And asking is a staying move, not a leaving move.  I want her to be okay, but then if that was likely to be an option, I probably wouldn't be leaving. 

So this will be unpleasant, but I'm hoping it won't be slow.  She is cheap, after all.  I'd love to think we could get the mediation/negotiation stuff dealt with between now and Christmas.  Yeah, not likely.  We have so little to sort out.  I'm pretty flexible on an awful lot of things other than custody.  (Don't tell her that.) 

It's funny -- when I was trying to save the marriage, I was weepy all the time.  I'm an emotional guy, after all.  And while I do get choked up a couple times a day, I'm largely holding it together.  I want to keep that kind of momentum going.  Alas, I can't do that alone.  I can make progress alone, rather, with the assistance of my lawyer.  Things seem to be leaning that way.  I feel like Indiana Jones trying to avoid booby taps as I escape this tomb of a marriage.  I'm fighting the urge to just make a run for it; doing so would surely get me squashed by a boulder.

So you're getting some emotional distance, which should help you a lot.

":)6, would you like to go to lunch at Domino's, and then to see a movie?"  "Yes!"  "W, would you like to join us?  We're leaving at 11:00 so we'll have time to eat and make the 1:00 movie."

What I'm suggesting is - what I had to learn - say what you're going to do, and then do it.

If it wasn't D6's birthday, I would probably not even ask your wife to join you.  It took me a while to accept that I needed to parent the kids, and not focus on my stbX.  For a year or so, I she joined us for every birthday - after we were separated - and big holiday meals.  That was a mistake - the sooner you can set aside the failed relationship, and give all your focus to your daughter, the better.

What is your plan for living separately?

But you still had to try.  We understand.


Holidays and events are triggers for disordered acting out.


Just be careful not to invalidate your daughter's observations.  If she sees misbehaviors, blaming, etc and you tell her "mommy loves you" it may be hard for her to handle two contradictory concepts.  Maybe something like "mommy may try but it doesn't come out right"?  Perhaps others here can recommend responses that will have your daughter and not be too confusing.

Okay, Detective Fultus broke out the magnifying glass and did some not-too-subtle snooping.

It seems some of my BPDw's students (a couple who are/were favorites) played a prank on her Friday (D6's birthday).  This likely contributed to $#!++y mood, but of course she didn't tell me about it.  Is that to punish me?  punish herself?  I dare not read more into it. 

Further snooping suggests she has been in touch with one of said students' mothers, exchanging extensive texts.  They have been in contact before and they seem to be friendly, so this isn't too shocking.  And this woman is divorced and (apparently) happily remarried, so she might be seeking advice from what sources she sees as reliable.  Who the hell knows.  I suspect they are discussing how alienated W feels by being pranked (moving all the desks out of her room onto the school lawn).

More disturbing, she texts this male student frequently.  I lack evidence to suggest any legal or even (obvious) ethical violations have been made, we can say that her habits of texting male students are not completely unrelated to the divorce.  (At least she isn't texting them 2000 times a month anymore.  Yeah, that's what it says.) 

I am worried about her mental well being for several reasons right now.  I'm contemplating asking her about the prank r if she wants to talk about it.  I suspect it would only piss her off, though, so maybe I won't.  Though I might have a little chat with our pastor/friend who is her most stable (read: adult) confidant. 

I need to escape this web of drama she lives in.  I'm sure these kids that pranked her were doing it out of affection, but there was a facebook post (where I discovered it) saying one kid "got W back".  Trying to figure it out will only frustrate and confuse me.   need to let it go.  I don't need to take care of her, especially since my caring will likely be rejected anyway.  I need to move beyond and above all this.  I need to get out.

Yes, most of that last paragraph was addressed to me.

I guess I need to remind myself that, even through this traumatic process of divorce, W's emotional responses are not about me.  I exist beyond her emotions and have for a long time.  And with that, her (unemphatic and sparse) pleas for me to stay are not about me or the marriage, but about her or maybe something even less significant -- ear of change, appearances, convenient child care... .? 

Maybe I should move all her possessions onto our lawn so she gets the message? (Shame on you, Fultus, that isn't funny.  Okay, maybe a little funny.)

Well, planA is to fix up the house through January, sell it during February, and be living on my own come March. Bad news, plan A is slow. Good news, W will never go for plan A. Plan B is for W you're refinance alone and buy me put of my half of the equity so I can buy my own place (which is no more expensive than renting here, though more of a commitment). Our seems more likely. Prlan C has W moving out, but I don't see that one happening either.

Regardless of who ends up where, I suspect it'll be February at the earliest before we are physically separate for more than a few nights. I have couches waiting for me if things get too crazy to handle here between now and then. 

My custody plan has D6 with me most days though W gets more hours per month with her. Again, I doubt that  will stick on the first toss.  I've done a lot of house browsing. I'm tempted to strange some showings, but I still have too much tome and too many question marks to do that. Same town, so child sharing shouldn't be too bad.

So yes, I have plans. They may have a lot of bumps between there and here, but I have plans. As long as she doesn't get cute with the equity, I should be out of here in a few months. There are apartments I could probably get into short term if things get lawyer-y.

Come on, Xmas, get here so I can get out!

You don't have to say anything, or if it seems helpful, you can talk about specific behaviors and never mention Mom.

Mom yells and blames D6 for something she didn't do.  She comes to you and tells you.  You can say, "It's not right to blame somebody for something they didn't do." or "Yelling at people doesn't fix things."  Try to reflect your daughter's own perceptions and feelings.  "It looks like you're really sad." or "It sounds like you're upset."

I agree with FD - telling a child who has been treated badly "Mommy loves you." is probably confusing.  If you read (but don't post) on the "Adult Children Of BPD" board here, you'll hear a lot of members talking about how much more it hurt, when their BPD parent treated them badly, and then the other parent invalidated them by telling them "Mom loves you." or "You shouldn't say something like that about your dad."  The child can begin to mistrust her own perceptions - think she's the crazy one - or to repress her feelings instead of talking about them - exactly the opposite of what is healthiest for her.

This is so hard to do, but so important. Read the Power of Validation, that's a good place to start. I have learned that asking a question helps me get out of my codependent-rescue type thinking. It's easy to tell yourself you'll validate your daughter, but it's hard to always do it. When something comes up out of the blue, my new default is to immediately respond by asking a question: "How did you feel when that happened?" Letting your child tell you how she/he feels is the magic antidote to a BPD parent, imo.

You might also want to think about how you will tell D6 that mom and dad are divorcing. Maybe start a new thread to ask members here how they handled it, what went well, what went badly, what we wish we did different. There is research out there that says less than 5% of divorcing parents ever explain what exactly divorce means, in kid terms. Kids want to know where they will sleep, will they have two toothbrushes, who will put them to bed at night, who will make their breakfast. Mom's House, Dad's House is a decent book --(altho parts can be a bit cringeworthy for people divorcing pwBPD.)

www.barnesandnoble.com/w/moms-house-dads-house-isolina-ricci/1100630863

Yeah, a thread like that would surely help others too - it's an issue that affects a lot of us.

Our marriage counselor coached me on this, and also the kids' counselor.  (The MC said - and I was there with my ex at the time - that I should tell the kids, one at a time - not both their mom and me, but me.  I glanced at my stbX, and she nodded!  She seemed to understand that this was something I needed to do.)

My son was 8 at the time.  His first question was, "Will we still take the same bus to school when we're at your house?"  I was floored - it hadn't even occurred to me - but because I had found a place only 2 blocks away, I said, "Yeah, I think so.  We'll make sure."

At first, S8's biggest concern was what other people would think - he was ashamed.  He got over that.  My D10's biggest concern was that her mom was sad and I wouldn't be there to help her.  That was tougher to handle, because she was right, her mom was sad - but then her mom had always been sad, except the first few months we were together, and I had never been able to fix that.

LnL's point - that the kids will mostly be concerned about practical things like toothbrushes - is very true.  At young ages, their biggest need is security - the knowledge that they will be OK.  They need to be told, "I'll still be your parent and will always take care of you.", and they also need answers to every little question that bugs them, like toothbrushes and school buses.

I'm sick today. BPDstbxw called to check on me. I was confused by this. Then it made sense because she went on to tell me about things D6 had said to her, things that were spouses to make me feel guilty about the divorce.

I have to keep reminding myself that w's distaste for divorce is not about me.  She stool hasn't professed her love for me in an attempt to dissuade divorce. I don't even think she's trying to talk me out of it, just feel bad about it. She asked me today how I could bee okay and whistle a around the house (which I didn't realize I was doing, but I do like too whistle).  I didn't address it.

I don't fO'eel like I need to explain to her why I'm leaving. She knows why. She just wants specific things to argue about. I don't want to fall into that trap. The only thing I've said is that things haven't gotten better, they aren't going to get better, and I just can't do it anymore. Her baiting is increasing, however. my next step is to tell her that, unless she stops trying to persecute me, I won't discuss things without a mediator. I suspect that's where this is going anyway. Still cheaper than having lawyers sort it out for us.

Her parents were up yesterday to see D6's school xmas recital. She hasn't told them about the divorce. Yeah, this is rstarting to roll downhill like I feared it would. The only thing I have to appeal to is her sense of cheapness - it's going to cost a lot more for less satisfying results to fight it out with lawyers, but I'm willing to do so.

Sthe knows this is her fault (she's not willing to own any disorder, so that leaves her) and she doesn't know how to handle that knowledge. I think she's trying to get me to say it so she can argue against it, but it's harder to do when she's the one telling herself. Personal reflection had always been very uncomfortable for her

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE PWBPD! EVER!

You will regret it if you do. You may think, based on the seeming indifference to the pending divorce, that your BPD wife is ignoring the issue. I guarantee she is not. Her parents were not just there for D6's recital. Keep in mind that BPD starts developing in adolescence, her parents have likely been a partner to her disordered behavior for many years. You can be guaranteed that the smear campaign has already begun.

Watch your back. Keep a digital recorder on your person at all times, and keep it running when you are around your STBex. You may not need the recordings, but if BPDw decides to punish you for the divorce, things can get very ugly, very quickly. ie a Christmas morning 911 call to file a false DV complaint. Don't take chances, no matter what your wife says to you. BPD is a serious mental illness, and you can't protect your daughter when you are sitting in jail.

I have a recorder on my phone.  I'm not good at triggering it when I need to, but I'm getting better.

The wife is severing our cell phone accounts today, so she is taking action.  She texted me saying she wants 50/50 custody, so I have that in writing.  I'll save it as a screenshot. 

I am trying not to underestimate her/BPD.  Lots of scenarios run through my head.  I'm trying not to play into her passive-aggressive games.  It's tough.  I am sure I have been smeared to some people.  I do have two therapists to support me should anything get ugly, including one that would (within the law) support me over her.  That surely counts for something.

I'm pretty sure her target is to make me uncomfortable without going to court.  I'm pretty much a boy scout and she has some pretty questionable skeletons that I can support with evidence.  She doesn't want them coming to light and she's high-functioning enough (so far) not to sabotage herself just to get to me.  Again, I'm taking nothing for granted, but I may well get out of this with minimal (new) scarring. 

I'm an optimist today.  Tomorrow my song may be different.

Maybe she doesn't want you being able to access her cell phone records?  Frankly, you probably wouldn't want her to be able to monitor yours either, if not an issue now, then later.  Divorce means separate lives.  Short term, the posturing, claims and allegations for custody/parenting are the big issues.  Co-parenting is the biggest challenge long term.

If the accounts are split, will you lose the text/call history on your phone?  Make backups or copies of anything important.

It generally gets worse the closer you get to separation.  And continues at least until a parenting schedule is agreed to or orders issued.  Do nto be surprised if/when she tries to find ways to make you look worse than her, even if it means false allegations, staged, framed, whatever.  Posturing is typical.  Do be cautious.

BPDw has been meeting with a couple of recently divorced friends for the last hour and a half. I'm hoping they are giving her perspective, but I suspect she is painting herself the victim and seeking advocates.  The game is afoot. Why does it always have to be a game?

It's time too put things in motion. She seems to be accepting reality of pending divorce, so we need to decide on a venue for it. Kitchen table? Mediator's office? Lawyers' phones? Courtroom?

These friends know me too and at least one knows a bit of our recent history. Snowing them won't be easy, I hope. Maybe they can tell her to just make the cut clean to protect D6. She might listen... .  Will record my next discussion, just in case.

Well, that was informative.

BPDw got home and we had a brief chat. It felt more like playing chess, but it was a chat. Things I learned: she tools her parents this morning about the divorce, she told several friends at work about the divorce on Monday, we are going to send D6 to her sitter day after tomorrow so we can discuss "business stuff" together (will record openly), she had okayed my trip with D6 to visit my family for New Years. No curve balls yet. Yet.

I feel like she is keeping something back. Though I suppose I am keeping things back, too. We both have things we want out of the divorce. I know sharing my list would be poor strategy, topping my hand. She wouldn't want to to hers either. Stool, I feel like there is a second shoe that hasn't dropped. I hope I am wrong.

W is taking D6 to school in the morning since she is off work and I have to be in early. Good reasons but an out of character offer. Likely her effort to demonstrate willingness to go out of her way for D6, then go xmas shopping. All things I'm happy to see as long as the action and the motive are aligned.

.

I need to get some sleep. I have a feeling this weekend may be taxing

Puking D6 = no divorce discussion today.  Looks like it will be after Christmas. 

W and I have always worked well together to take care of a sick D. 

That was the case with my ex, one of the few situations she and I have fewer disagreements.  Sadly, I still have to be careful, she is an entitled know-all mother and even with illnesses she isn't quite normal.

Visiting family with D6 and without uBPDstbxw. Never thought visiting family would be so hard. I'm so used top spending family visits worrying about how w is handling things that I don't know what to do other than think about her. I still feel responsible for her and worry about her and want to make her happy. It's instinct at this point. I can't help it.

I just want to stay moving on and the process is so much slower than I ever imagined. Now it looks like it could be mid-February before she can refinance, so that long before I can even begin to think about finding a lieutenant residence solution.

I think we have a tentative custody plan and have worked out who gets what pets, but little else. And it's starting to look like her lawyer is giving her confrontational advice. I am so sick of all of this and I'm just getting started.

I'm in a very low, depressed place right now. Surrounded by family, I've never felt so lonely.

Do you have opportunities to talk openly about these issues with your family?

And do they give you good support?

Opportunities have been tough because the kids (my D6 and her cousins) don't know and they are everywhere.  My mom is supportive but there's a whole can of worms from leaning on her too much (she's codependent in a controlling, care-taking, nothing-is-good-enough way).  I'm not staying in the same house with my brother, who I could probably count on most. 

My family is supportive of my decision to leave my wife, but they have never been much help dealing with feelings.  Telling my mom I'm lonely while visiting her is bound to start more problems than it solves. 

I think some of it is wanting to push forward with the leaving process and having nowhere to go.  It sucks.

Somebody here told me, when I was where you are, to make sure I had three sources of support.

Family and close friends - they may not have a clue about what you're going through, but they can still (I hope) give you support, as a person they care about.  Don't hesitate to ask for it.

Peers - like here - can understand what you're going through because we've been there, or are still there.

Professionals, like a counselor, can give you ideas based on education and second-hand experience.

I followed that advice and it helped.

What you are experiencing is actually very important -- lean into those feelings. Treat them like lights on the dark path to getting better. I did a lot of reading (after I left, because self-help books triggered N/BPDx during the marriage   ) and came across one author (Harriet Lerner?) who wrote about the problems we inflict on ourselves when we overfunction for someone else. The way you describe your mother makes me think you probably already know this stuff, but it sounds to me like the absence of your ex is allowing you to feel the pain of being you. I felt the same way after leaving N/BPDx, and it lasted a long time. The best advice I heard and the most simple was, "Lean into the pain." There will be many times when you want to alleviate the pain with "fixing" and "rescuing" and I found I needed to be extra careful about how I parented S11. Some people think the idea of codependency and parenting is ridiculous because kids are naturally dependent on us, but for me there is definitely a line between using parenting and being a healthy parent.

Your instinct to not involve your mom sounds very wise to me. You know that she will overfunction and try to solve things for you, and it sounds like you know that she will not be able to validate how you feel and let you have your feelings in all their sadness.

Matt's advice about support is really good -- it can sometimes be hard for codependent people to lean on friends, but I found it made my friendships deeper and it cracked my armor so that I could feel genuine compassion for other people instead of rescuing them.

Hang in there. Holidays can be hard times even in the best of times, and you are going through a divorce with someone who is disordered. That's a cocktail for depression if ever there was one. In my experience, things got better incrementally, and the healing was slow and sometimes the pain brought me to my knees. But I wouldn't trade it for the world -- that healing, those feelings, it made me a better person and a much, much better parent. Use that pain to make this difficult experience mean something in your life. You're worth it, your daughter is worth it, and it does get better 

Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint.  It will take a long time, maybe a very long time.  Perhaps it will help to adjust your expectations.  What do you mean by "having nowhere to go".  Where do you want to go?

I've learned to adjust my expectations and to simply be happy that I'm alive and I have my health.  Anything beyond that is a bonus.  And anything is better than being married to the Nut Job that took 27 years of my life.

Thank you Matt, lived, and theodore.  Your support and advice helps a lot.

@theodore - I want to pack up and get out of the house, to tell D6 that we are divorcing so I don't feel like I'm lying to her all the time.  I'm not lying, of course, but I'm avoiding it, and sometimes the things she says break my heart.  Yesterday she drew a picture of Christmas stockings for her and me and her mom and it took everything I had not to cry. 

It looks like I'll be waiting for my stbxw to refinance before I can look into a new place.  I can pressure that by refusing to contribute to the mortgage after a certain date, but I'm largely at her mercy.  I'm not comfortable with that considering how long I've been living at her mercy and how little I've gotten out of that.  I want to start dividing possessions and draft agreements and do all the things that open the door to the next stage in my life.  Right now it's all hurry up and wait. 

My stbx avoids discussing anything.  I'm about ready to schedule mediation and just tell her when to show up. 

It's like ripping off a band-aid -- I know it hurts but I want to get it over with so the pain can start to go away. 

I recall someone long ago saying, There is no right time, no perfect scenario, no exact time to push the button.  If you wait for that, you'll be waiting a long, long time.

That's why the first steps are the hardest, as time goes on you'll be more able to see where the next steps are and won't face as perplexing a dilemma of timing.

Many of us discover we behave in very codependent ways. Meaning, not assertive. You see where you need to go (not being at her mercy), and you're fed up with the way things have been going (being at her mercy). Part of the amazing transformation that many of us go through -- separate from the obvious separation -- is learning to recognize when we are being passive, discovering what tools and techniques we can use to become more proactive, and getting the strength to apply those tactics to protect ourselves. You are not really at her mercy, not as much as you think. And when you are, you need to think and act in ways that make her accountable for putting you at her mercy.

You may need to work on these skills with your L. If stbx does not discuss anything, you will have to use legal tactics to make sure things move smoothly. Most pwBPD do not respond well to reasonable requests, so you'll have to figure out how to implement a plan that pushes things forward (by stating a consequence).

For example, your L could draft something that says, "Stbx will refinance by Day Date Year otherwise Consequence." Provide a deadline, and a consequence that benefits you. My ex was supposed to refi the house by August 2012. It still isn't done. There is no penalty for his procrastination and I have no recourse to force the matter except filing contempt of court at my own expense (altho I could ask to be reimbursed for legal fees if I chose to do that).

I should have asked for it to read, "N/BPDx will refi the mortgage by Day Date Year and is responsible for all associated legal fees that LnL might incur. If N/BPDx does not refi the house by Day Date Year, he will have to pay xyz to LnL. Something like that -- the point being that N/BPDx's fully tapped home equity is affecting my credit line, making it tough for me to qualify for other loans. If N/BPDx waits a long time, I may lose good lending opportunities that could cost me a lot over a 30-year mortgage lending term. I haven't pursued this because it's not something I can even afford right now, but the principle still stands. Make sure every request has a consequence and a deadline.

You want mediation? Schedule it. Don't wait for her. Who is going to pay for it? If she makes more $$, she will be expected to cover it. N/BPDx paid for our mediation, but that wasn't settled until the end. If you are eager to get into mediation, and think she might blow it off, perhaps you could say, "Mediation is scheduled for this date. If either party cancels, that person must cover the cost of rescheduling."

Learn to think that way so that you don't (literally) pay when she dodges and makes things unnecessarily difficult.

Yeah, I think this is a key point.

My ex is extremely passive-aggressive, and this came out strongly during the divorce process.  She quickly figured out that she could hurt me, emotionally and financially, by stalling.  Sometimes she came up with excuses for not doing what she was supposed to, and other times she didn't give a reason - just didn't do whatever was next.  It went on and on.

I learned that it was up to me, with input from my attorney, to find a path forward that would not require any cooperation from her at all.  I learned how the process works where I lived, what the steps are, what I could file, how long she had to respond at each step, and what I could do if she failed to respond in that time.  It still took a long time, but I learned that I could complete the divorce without her cooperation.  She saw me moving forward, and figured out that if she didn't work with me - through our attorneys - then it would go worse for her.  So she came to the table.

You need to find out from your attorney what is the best, strongest way to move forward without any cooperation from the other party.  Then do that.  When the other party responds, great.  Otherwise just keep moving forward on your own initiative.

(Some attorneys will be passive in the face of passive-aggressive tactics too.  That may mean the attorney doesn't have experience with a BPDish opposing party.  You might have to school your attorney on these issues.)

My lawyer often says: "She can slow us down but she can't stop us".

... .  and there is the woman I want to spend the rest of my life apart from.

uBPDstbxw did some looking into getting the house refinanced and it brought out the victim in her, which she isn't comfortable with and wants to victimize me and my daughter.  D6 knows nothing about the divorce but W was stomping around in front of her talking about how "we may not have a house anymore".  Even my attempts to leave her with 20% equity are being met like a martyr, despite me getting maybe 2/3 of what she is getting.  And of course it's all my fault for leaving her, for "giving up" on a woman that has no respect for me, no attraction to me, and no connection with me = no love for me.  Yeah, I regret giving up on that.  And now she is starting to parade issues in front of D6.  THAT I will not abide.

W "gave up" a long time ago -- at least a year, likely a lot more -- and didn't bother to tell me, just kept slinking further and further away from me until I couldn't ignore it anymore. 

She is effectively offering me 1/3 of what she will keep in equity when I leave the home.  Maybe if she wants to pay me alimony... .  but I don't want that.  This would be easier if we hadn't refinanced so recently, a fact she just attributed to my insistence.  Her idea, she pursued it, she made me talk on the phone to the guy, but it was her doing.  I went along despite voicing objections about the doubtful nature of our marriage, but I didn't want to veto it because we were still trying to work it out.  Or I was, and she was hoping I might just crawl back in my hole and shut up about everything.

I make a terrible advocate for myself.  I want her taken care of, but I'd like to be able to live , too.  I feel like I'm back to the drawing board on the negotiation.  We can spend a little money and a lot of hours fixing up the house to sell it.  It's all the same to me except it will take a while to sell.  I just want out of this marriage. 

I'm going to consult my brother, a real estate lawyer.  I'm hoping he can help decipher some of this BS and get my life moving forward again.  Right now, I'm spinning my wheels in an outer circle of hell.  I just I hope I'm pointing the right way when I finally get traction.

Just had a (hopefully final) financial discussion with uBPDstbxw.  I'm ready to cut my losses (which are significant) and get out of dodge.  I'm compiling info tomorrow to take to the lawyer so we can start the clock on the 90 day "cooling off" period before it's final. 

Wife has refinance in the works on our house to put it in her name only.  I'm looking at houses Friday.  I see my life moving forward.  It's exciting and terrifying and heartbreaking all at once.

The next big step -- huge step -- will be telling D6.  I'm terrified. 

Two questions that may have already been addressed:

Is the house already in her name only?

Is the house considered a marital asset and if so, are you effectively 'gifting' it to her with no

strings attached or is this in consideration of you walking away with other assets?  If you think that by being nice with the house it will make her reciprocate nicely in other areas, you could be in for a shock.

foreverdad: The house is currently in both our names.  She is technically buying me out of my "half" of the equity with money from the refinancing.  I'll have papers to sign to release myself from the title, etc. 

You're right about her not giving in other areas.  I've agreed to her getting more equity (roughly 60% to my 40%) and more physical property (largely equipment from her photography business -- again almost 60/40) and a 50/50 split on bank accounts and retirement savings from whatever official date the court stipulates.  Based on how little savings we have across the board, that's her getting maybe 57% of our marital assets. 

But I sure got an earful last night when I wanted another 5% from the house's equity.  How hard her life was going to be, how little disposable income she'll be left with.  Nevermind she makes 3-5 grand a year more than me doing the same job in a different county.  And she tried to tell me I had no right to the bonus she got in November because _I_ didn't earn it. 

I'm agreeing to the terms of surrender so I can get the #@$< out and get my life rebooted.  I'm willing to take a loss as long as that line doesn't start sliding back on me.  I have a firm agreement and it's time to let my lawyer draft the papers.  Oh, and my folks are paying part of the lawyer fees, largely because they want me out even more than I do. 

This is where things could get spontaneously messy, or they could just start to build momentum to salvation.  Fingers crossed for the latter.

Things are starting to move fast in divorce world. My stbxw is closing on her refinance of our house in mid-February. I looked at a few houses with a realtor (loved one, but it smelled like smoke). I'm prequalified for a mortgage of my own. Everything but paperwork with the lawyer, I'm afraid. For the third week in a row i am declaring "this week". 

If you aren't divorced yet, will the lender give you a loan that doesn't have your spouse's name on it?  My understanding is that any asset acquired will you are still married belongs half to your spouse.  If you buy a house, your spouse will own half of it unless you have solid signed documents to the contrary.  Even with signed documents, ownership is questionable.

theodore:

I verified with my lawyer today that (at least in this state) it is at the discretion of the lender whether they require the divorce to be completed or just filed.  My divorce is not filed yet, but it will be before the loan closes.  Both my stbxw and I have been open with our potential lenders about our status so there should be no surprises.  Should.