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DD has her monthly checkin with her probations officer. She told me she is really nervous about him violating her and sending her to jail today. She has missed several of her UA days (court ordered monitoring for drugs/alcohol on her DWAI conviction). I am trying to be validating of her worries, and not judging about her not following the probation rules consistently. It is hard when you have no totally friends that are drug/alcohol free. She has been doing the classes and started the therapy. She has a meds appt at mental health before the probation appt. Hope these all work in her favor. This will be a test of how tolerant this particular probation case manager is.

So have to let go let go and accept whatever the results are. Bf just got here on the early morning bus - good thing - hope is plans to ride in with us for this appt.

Jail vs. probation: they each have an impact on my daily life. I am the 'driver'. This is how DD introduces me when I am in the waiting room during her appts.  I refer to myself as 'life coach' when given the opening to do so.

Keep us in your thoughts and prayers today.

qcr  

Dear qcarol,

As always I offer you and yours up for healing and comfort.  Staying connected through remembering you in prayer.

 

lbj

qcarol

I sure understand how you feel today and I understand how scared your dd is... .  I'll be hoping for the best outcome.

Jail vs. probation. They each certainly will have an impact on your day to day.

Sometimes I hope that the judge will sentence my ds to about a year in jail. Not that I want him there but he is so much safer in jail than out there on his own on probation.  In jail he is getting cognitive therapy, MH services and they give him his meds. 

He's locked up and so far away but he's safe.

Please let us know how it turns out.  

qcr,

I hope today went okay for you and dd.  I just got back from my dd's district court case.  I am sick about the result.  I willl not hijack your thread and start my own.

I just want to give you   and maybe cry with you.  I am so tired of this.   

I really hope things are okay with you.   

 

peaceplease

My prayers are with you. Remember... .  whatever the outcome, believe it is for the best. There is someone greater than all of US who knows the whole picture.

As we drove home together from the last appt today DD said something like "Wow, everything fell into place perfectly today". All I could do was agree.  She was remembering some tough times she has put herself into in the past, and my response was "THere is a reason you are still here".

We got to the mental health center early and all went to the kids waiting area for gd7's appt. T came out and DD asked to come in with gd and I. She stayed and intereacted with both gd and the T for the 1/2 hour until her pdoc(NP) appt. The last time DD and I were together in this office - over a year ago - DD left in anger and refused to ever come back. She felt set up and picked on by me and the T. It was just too painful for her. The point of that meeting was to work on building her r/s with gd.

DD was still waiting for her pdoc appt - the NP was running late. (she sees a nurse practioner supervised by a pdoc). When the NP came out she said the new pdoc was going to sit in on their appt, if this was OK with DD, as he was training on their computer system. DD wanted a stimulant for her ADHD - she wants to be more focused, oragnized, motivated, and to LOSE WEIGHT. They gave her some brief testing for ADHD, and an rx for Vynase. It is like adderal but time release for 24 hours. Dd expected much more resistance, and she was honest about her previous cocaine addiction in high school and after until she got pregnant with gs5 - she quit on her own and has not gone back. We will see how this goes for her. She gave me her left over ativan - she cannot take this with the vynase.

Then we got gas and some fast food then on to the probation office. Had to wait a bit for them to get back from lunch. DD seemed calm, but I knew she was very nervous. She seemed resigned to whatever the result would be. She was back out in about 10 minutes. Seems the case worker guy takes vynase for his ADHD too - as DD said with a laugh "a bonding moment". Somehow this made everything over past month make more sense?

So it all turned out OK today. Such a relief. I realize how much I enjoy having DD here for gd. She is being a real plus to have with this high energy child.

So hang in there all you parents. Good days do come along. Things will work out as they do regardless of whether I lose sleep over it or not. So I will try to get better sleep. And keep practicing calm focused energy and validating thoughts and words.

Off for a walk with dogs and gd. DD is leaving soon with bf - it is his birthday. They will be back tomorrow.

qcr  

Just don't have words to say qcarol.

:)  

Very happy for ALL of you!  I would consider it a good day on many levels. |iiii

That's great... .  things do work out for the best

Oh I am so happy for you and DD and gd.  I am glad all worked out so well   

Griz  

Dear Qcarol,

Thank you! You are an example . You teach me a lot. and DD is a great woman. She is kind and ants to do it wright. I´m so happy about gd. You´re a good team! Thank Lord!

I remembered this psalm, when i saw your post.

Psalm 18:32-34  the God who equipped me with strength and made my way blameless. He made my feet like the feet of a deer  and set me secure on the heights. He trains my hands for war, so that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.

Let´s keep on together. Congrats, qcarol.

 

 

thurs

cqa

Great to see things are going well. Wishing that the continue. Take good care and enjoy your gd.

Learning

Dear Qcarol   

Been following your thread.  So glad it all worked out.  I agree with LtA- Take good care and enjoy your gd   

wtsp

Thanks for all the encouragement and well wishes  :)

So today those ol' doubts pop up. The fears - maybe the PO was too easy on DD so now she will get sloppy with her compliance. So maybe she was gone all night just like so many other all nights. Maybe she feels it is ok to miss another of her probation drug/alcohol classes this morning. She is inside somewhere because she went yesterday without her warm coats or boots. And bf arrived at our house on the last bus - "Where's DD?".  He swapped for a wii and is playing 'G" rated games with gd. So I get a break to come here for a little bit.

DD did text this afternoon ":)id bf get home" -- "I will be there tonight".  Guess bf had a 'boys night out' for his bday on Thurs, so DD took her night out last night. There is a fairness to that. When is my 'night out'?

Practicing letting go again.   Never ends, does it. Things are OK for another month till she checks in with PO again. So best I can do is get busy with my life.

I have asked dh to give me Weds. evenings free - for him to have a game night with gd and get her ready for bed. I am switching my work shedule so cannot do the womens study group I was doing on Tures. mornings - change to accomadate DD's therapy appts. So there is an evening group I would like to try starting at end of Jan. Hey - I do get a night out, just have to ask.

Even with all the tools, skills, and support still have to refocus often to stay sane. How about you?

qcr  

Always!  Let go and let God.

Cheers to living a balanced life.  

Trying to not 'jump to conclusions'. Seems DD is drifting out of feelign compelled to do her probation stuff - no UA's done for over a week now, she chose to skip her class on Saturday, and she did not show up this morning to go to her T appt.

Wondering - she started taking Vynase (a stimulant like adderal) for her ADHD. Somewhat surprised she convienced the NP at mental health to give this to her. She wants it to lose weight - but also may be triggering that taste for meth. Her face is all broken out again. Could this just be the vynase - is she abusing it by taking more than rx - is she adding other drugs?

There will be no answers to me for these questions - only my doubts. And I have to accept that the consequences will eventaully catch up with DD.

She is also at the 2 month window that is her pattern to persists at any task - any period of being in our home doing was is 'expected'.

Stepping back, focusing on gd (her last vacation day today), focusing on work, focusing on dreams dh and I have to improve our house this spring.

qcr  

Dear, Qcarolr

Don´t be affraid.  You are very sage. And I trust your intuition. Is there any way to talk to DD?  Like ask her if she is ok? that you noticed these things?

I would do that.

 

yes, this is what I was thinking at lunch today. How to talk with her? The thoughts that pop up though are sure not in the valdating style. Many changes have been made by dh and I to accomadate DD in this probation - time, money, emotional and mental energy, schedule changes... .    I want to say, Hey, DD these are the things I have willingly done to support you. I need you to continue to do what is needed for your probation or these supports will not be there for you. Saying tHis would most likely not help the situation for anyone. Just create a lot of drama.

So I need to start with asking her questions - what's up that you are not getting the UA's or going to class or therapy? There will be no bond to get out of jail when the PO violates you on your probation. And then listen to what she has to say. My intuition says that DD is being drawn into drugs again, and I am powerless to stop this.

I can reduce some of the things we do for her; buy her clothes, give her rides, buy her bus passes. Limit her to the house in this way - YUCK - potential for rebound drama. Especially now that she is on stimulant meds. - I can see the shift in her mood. bf commented on this yesterday too.

How do I stay out of my fearful thinking - let go of my expectations - allow DD to 'benefit' from all the results of her choices here? I have the courage somewhere. Geez, the distaste I feel to be arming for this battle again. One where there is mostly pain and few winners.

qcr   

I guess you could talk to her, but we all know very well that they usually do not listen. Maybe  you could have a “warning talk” meaning that in a very nice way you could let her know that if she gets in to trouble that you are not going to bail her out. That is one of the things we have made very clear to our daughter, and she knows that if she has any legal problems we are not going to spend a dime or an hour of our time to help her. I know this sounds callous, but the more we enable them the less they do for themselves. The best that you can do right now is to try to take care of yourself that way you can be there for your gd and your husband. Our BPD children get so much out of us that at the end we are depleted and unable to do what we need to do. We should to stop making them the center of our world in order to focus in other things that we can actually have some control over. Send you my best wishes and support.

I really appreciate the reminder to 'stop making them the center of our world' -- Thanks

qcr  

Qc, dear

as you quote : I must have the courage to live with the paradox, and the strength to hold the tension of not knowing the answers, and the willingness to listen to my inner wisdom.

I would ask her: how are you about T... ec? Are you ok? How do you feel?

 

When DD left Sunday afternoon with bf"M" for town I reminded her of appointment on Monday. Her reply "WHAT appointment". For T. Her reply "I don't know what to say and don't want to sit there with nothing to talk about". I suggested she talk about those things that put her in a panic with people - with working, with friends, with family. Then I dropped it. And I have not heard from her since Sunday afternoon.

I spoke with dh tonight - actually had mini breakdown crying. I am so tired today - went back to bed for 2 hours while gd played in house this morning. (I get up with dh at 6am for breakfast before he leaves for work) She is such a wonderful child. Then we spent a long part of the afternoon when I was done with my work (from home) sitting by the nearby horse farm watching the horses play. I read a silly book while gd played with her little horse figures. Then home for supper. So I have taken time to ponder what I need to let DD know - how to take care of myself here while letting her know I care about what she is feeling.

From "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better" refresher - THE UNIVERSAL NEED:

I am of worth

My Feelings matter

Someone really cares about me


I found this for myself with dh and gd today - and within me. Now to find how to give this consideration to DD when I see her next and she is calm and open to hearing.

How does this sound:

I feel discouraged when you miss your probation classes, therapy and UA's. I need to know if there are ways I can help you with this. I really need to be free to set up my schedule without worry of your needing a ride. My work and study group are important to me. Can you take the bus on days when I am not available for these appointments?

I have found a bit of peace this evening as I sat with gd settling for the night. Then I journaled all my thinking. Then I came here to share it trusting you all to understand and care. Thanks.

qcr  

Dear, QC

I loved the way you reach the point.

Maybe you can tell her step by step. First, the great: I´m feel discourage... .  help you with this. then you wait a while... .  and then you see what you say next.

I´m leaving for the mass and íll be back soon.

Good luck and peace be within you.

 

qcarolr,

My brother and sister-in-law with whom my Mom lived sent me a package yesterday. It was full of pictures that had been in my Mom's stuff, some things she had written, some things she had saved.

I found a print out of an essay on "letting go".

From that print out... .  


If our kids aren't "getting it" on their own and we drag them unwillingly through what they need and should do it she they miss out on all they may learn from their efforts. Thee is great value in the process itself, isn't there?

I see clearly that my SD resists many learning moments- too hard... .  she doesn't get how it will help... .  wants to keep that dreamy, billowy, magical cocoon wrapped around herself. The cocoon softens every blow but it also keeps her from what can make her stronger, from what can spark true vitality and happiness  from what can and will inform other aspects of her life.

Mainly right now, SD misses out on how great it feels to work hard and accomplish having worked hard. When I focus on what I have gained in my life from having conquered hardships with success, it fills me up with self-esteem. She really needs every scrap of self -esteem that she can find.

Just a  reminder that when you cover your DD with your protection, she doesn't get the chance to learn it herself.

I like your idea of starting with  questions and letting the conversation flow from that point. I hope you are wrong about the drug use starting again. You have better tools now than you did when she was using before.

Trust that at least some of the things you have accomplished in "letting go" will have stuck and stay at the forefront as she works her way through these new challenges.

 

thursday

Dear qcarol,

I have all faith that you know what and how to do what needs doing.  Rely on the truth and your skills.  We are here to encourage you onward towards the peace that passes all understanding. 

I really like what Thursday wrote... .  about self esteem.  The definition that I use for the development of higher self esteem: 

accomplishing what we thought we could not.

I believe that for our BPDkids/adult kids it is just as true if not more.  Two of the truth statements that us moms struggle to live by... .  "don't do for a pwBPD what they can do for themselves" and "when we care more than they do we set ourselves up for suffering" come to mind.

There is a fine line between being an advocate and an enabler... .  draw your stength to walk this fine line with balance from the Spirit that lives within you.

I believe that there is a lesson to be learned in each difficult moment... when we learn it we move on to other lessons... .  when we don't learn it that same lesson will continue to come to us until we do.

Love and blessings

lbj

I´m back.

I agree with Ibjn and Thursday but i would take care because maybe DD is feeling she is getting better and this can mean - to her -  you will leave her making her things. I agree with self-steam ecc... .  all the sage things and advices Ibjn and Thursday told here.

What i don´t know is if DD feels she is so powerful  to do things alone she will step back. What i read about her she is very affective and needy and focused on you Qcarol. I would say to be patient and not push her  too fast. Maybe you have to  take much time giving her rides to go here and there... .  everywhere. You all are doing such a amazing job... .  don´t let  it be spoiled because anything.

for a while i woud just ask her about the issues  and  trying to figure if she feels affraid to be healed. This S... .  happens all the time.

 

This has such great insight - such an invisible need. DD came away from the first T appt a week ago smiling. Yet, now a week of thinking about it, she does not want to trust this T or face the pain of opening her Pandora Box of emotions.  The T is doing drug/alcohol treatment focus. I have come to accept that DD has been struggling with substance use/abuse for at least 9-10 years. And she is in full denial that it is a problem. Could this be part of it.

Update - part 1: DD text at 4:15am - woke the dogs which woke the rest of the house. I did not here text reminder for aobut 1/2 hour, checked, put on vibrate and went back to be.  "mom, lost bus passes, it is cold and i am freezing. can u come get us please and thank u"

6:15am she calls dh phone - he is making coffee, I listen from my room. He calmly says he is going to work and I have to get gd on bus. I will call when I can.

Gotta go meet gd's bus. Will finish later.

qcr  

qcarol

Last year we sent ds29 to the Menninger Clinic in Houston.  They specialize in the assessment and treatment of BPD.  We sent him there to get a firm diagnosis.  He has had a problem with substance abuse for about 10 years.  He doesn't use street drugs anymore but plays around with his RX's (when not in jail).

Anyway at Menninger's they told us that until he fully acknowledges that he has a problem with drugs it will be very hard to treat the BPD because it's like a barrier to self know knowledge, regulating mood and just about everything.

Thanks cfh for this reminder. I really know all this, just hard to put it into practice when DD trying so hard. Maybe giving up on the lawyer for retrial or appeal is part of her decline in complying with probation. Also the holiday stress -- could be so many reasons that I use to rationlize my putting her needs before everyone else's.

I am getting clearer on this -again.

Also am seeing, or gaining better awareness of her jealousy of our attentions to gd and even the doggies. Gd loves the dogs, DD seems perturbed by this -- and then maybe my assumptions and observations, well I need to let go of all this. It accomplishes nothing good for me or household.

Telling dh how perturbed I am and tired as DD walked into room tonight. I told her I do everything around the house and I am tired, so tired. Shopping, cleaning, cooking, dishes, etc. etc.   She was helping with some of these chores, gd was helping with some of these chores. The more tired I get, the less I am able to ask them to do their share. And gd is on strick about chores. She used to earn $5 a week with behavior goals and chores. She earned $7 for the whole month of December. And she did not get to take her saved money shopping as she has to earn at least four marks on calendar, regardless of money. Part of this is that we support DD - gd sees us give her money - and gd sees that her mommy does not do many chores so why should she.

Just have to regain strength to put some new rules into effect - is this different than personal boundaries?


Update part 2:  After getting gd on bus I did pick up DD and bf"M" and drop them at home. THen I went about my day. They are quiet today. I was silent all the way home, and pretty quiet this evening. DD kept trying to pull me into drama - think it gives her relief from her own feelings if I get upset. I told her there was nothing I could say that she would not disagree with, so I was being quiet. On phone earlier she did not want me to hang up - she was fishing for a fight about nothing. I did not give into this. Good job of remaining calm and focused.

Other stress, maybe this is not place to go into much detail. Brings my fears for DD getting warrant to go to jail to the surface. Fears she will die rather than go to jail as she has stated a few times after probation sentence in Oct.  Boss texted last night that owner of neighboring business has killed himself - on phone with gf as police were coming due to his probation violations (he was in court ordered half-way house), and this opened an opportnity for them. They are competitors in same building - auto repair. It made me sick, this vulture-like response. Had text from his wife, that works there too, with an even stronger message of this. Had long talk with her today about how they can go about trying to buy the assets of this business, customer database and hire away the techs. (She has been talking with techs to move to their buiness for several months -- neighbor business in trouble for some time with that owner's DUI and drug addiction issues) I did my best to interject the need for compassion for the family and give things time to settle out. I am bookkeeper/business manager - this puts so much stress on my personal values and my professional ethics. Can I even continue to work for them? That is another stress, given our financial situation and the needs for flexiblity.

Maybe a less flexible job would force DD to be more responsible - get me out of her path more

Know God puts these challenges in my path with purpose - I so resist this.

Need to go for now. Just too much for today.

qcr  

Greetings to you qcarol,

So sad to hear in your post how low your energy level has dropped.  Simply must take care of self... .  !  Can't take care of anyone else  when we don't take care of self... .  

It seems that your "boss" and his "wife" need someone to be the voice of reason and compassion.  Who will be that voice in their lives if not you?  We provide opportunities and let go of the outcome. 

Maybe just maybe qcarol you have lost site of this in your worn down, worn out, distressed state... .  and maybe just maybe qcarol you are worn down and worn out because you have lost site of this... .  let go of the outcome... .  it is not yours to direct, own, or orchestrate.

 

Love

lbj

Totally agree with you lbj, we need to take care of ourselves before we take care of anyone else. I know that was one of the things that helped me the most, and even though from time to time I feel a little guilty for becoming what I would have judged as “selfish” in the past, I realized that such was the best thing I ever did for my dd. Before my own therapy I used to be the one who did everything for everyone else, I would go out of my way to help not just dd, but anyone who needed some help (I diagnosed myself with the Nightingale syndrome). Now that I am able to say no without excruciating guilt, I am much less stressed out and have more energy to withstand my daughter’s emotional ups and downs. She had a break down about six months ago after break up with her boyfriend and superficially cut herself threatening suicide. I calmly talked to her and gave her the choice to voluntarily go to the hospital, but also reminded her that suicide is a permanent choice to a temporary problem. I did not emotionally react to her threat and kindly told her that if she was adamant about it no one would be able to prevent it, not even me.  She did go to the hospital for a few days and has been doing very well ever since. Qcarol, we all know that suicide is higher in people with BPD, and all of our children are at risk, but that is something we cannot control. If your dd ever makes that choice there is no way you could have done something about it or that you would be responsible for it. We can worry sick thinking of all the possible scenarios of what could happen to our children, but that doesn’t help. I would suggest that whenever you find yourself dwelling on the “what ifs” to just let them out here for a bit, write them in a journal, or talk to a friend for a few minutes, but then shut the door on all those worries and get distracted doing something else. Your granddaughter and your husband need you too!

Qcr

Sending healing thoughts to you, dd and dgd and wishing your dd has the strength to stop taking the stimulants if they are interfering with her probation and overall progress.

Learning

Update: sense that DD's need for r/s with her bf is somewhat toxic right now. He has been in very depressed place past few days from exclusion by FOO during holidays - though he got to spend a week before the bigger family events last month with his mom. The rest of the family is step-brothers and their families. DD has stood by him through all this - rearranging her schedule and needs to meet his. And he has become increasingly demanding of her attentions, even when she is busy with our family routines. Like yesterday, we had made plans to go to my mom's about 1 hours drive to shop and eat lunch. DD was very interested in going, even the day before. Yet when I woke her yesterday morning she came up and asked if she could not go. OK, though inside I had mixed feelings.

When I returned home yesterday she was alone - bf had left for town. DD had cheered him up, now she was down, and he was gone. THis is pattern - he is here when he needs her, but gone when she needs him. I was really quiet for awhile - I was feeling too angry at bf to be validating of DD feelings - or so I thought.

In evening she came to sit with us watching TV and I share, gently, how angry I was that bf was rarely here for her when she needed him, but she was expected to always be there when he needed her. And this had been happening more. Gave her some examples of both sides of this. She said "maybe you need to say this to him". I said I did not want to anger him - asked if her was a violent person. She said no, but I think she understood my hesitation. And the truth for me is she has to manage this r/s without my interference. I am talking to her to stimulate her thinking about what her needs are and how to best meet them.

She has not done any probation stuff since new year's eve that I know of. She asked me how many days she had been back this week - since Tuesday morning. I know she is waiting for her system to clear of something. She has missed two classes and one T appt.  She knows the risks. I do not need to say anything about this to her. The outcome - I am letting it go much better this week. I know she is strong in many ways and will be a survivor of whatever comes.

Maybe she will follow through today with online application for grocery store job - Sprouts is hiring. How can I coach her on the interview - letting them know her strengths, sharing how she plans to overcome her weaknesses, figuring out what openings fit her skills. Talked with her about a job being a good way to meet new people with more focused goals in life than her homeless friends. She wants this.

qcr  

I think you are doing a great job with this situation qcarol... .  being concerned for her, giving her food for thought, letting her decide what/how to do it... .  awesome!

So often our kids that suffer with BPD have a very negative opinion of self... .  doubt, victim mentality. 

In reference to coaching for the job interview... .  reframing works well sometimes... .  looking at traits from a positive instead of negative perspective.  That is the basis of PPC...

For example:  Instead of dd looking at being homeless because she couldn't follow house rules ... .  dd looks at her strength of adapatability in being able to live homeless and learn from it... that she has strong survival skills, she is resourceful... .  she has a broader view of people, is less judgemental, has the capacity for a higher level of compassion, etc... .  

Hope it goes well for her.

You are "all" so good at knowing how to handle this.  I also appreciate your sharing with the rest of us so we to can learn from it.  I hope one day I will be able to at least be knowledgeable enough to do it in my situation with my dd.  I am sending hugs and good thoughts your way. 

somuchlove

Dear Qcarolr,

You and you´re dd are amazing. She is there for him as you for her. She learned, she grew a lot.

I loved Ibjn´s words. DD can do it. I´m just concerned about this kind of "sabotage" against herself. I would  talk - very careful with her about her fear of healing herself.  She knows the risks , of course. What, maybe, she doesn´t realized yet is hear fear to be free, or have the symptoms - which are her "old fellows" , her "close friends" - much more under her control. IMO, she fears the changes.

Take care of yourself, darling. You deserve the best. You inspire me always.