BPDFamily.com

Do you think that an exBPD thinks of us at any point down the line?  I've read in some posts that those suffering with BPD don't have any regrets at how they treated us, but I don't necessarily believe that to be true.  I believe from my own experience that my exbfBPD was a very sensitive person in many ways and I remember him telling me how after arguments we'd had and he'd shouted, screamed and sworn at me (which he knew I really did NOT like), he walked away and felt guilt after and remorse. Now if he could admit that to me just 6 months ago, I believe somewhere inside him he still feels that.  I certainly believe he must feel that now, as he treated me very poorly when I tried to resolve things for 3 weeks when we split this last time.  During those 3 weeks all he did was shout, swear and scream.  It was the same scenario, but a different day.  I try to find some consolation in that.  Do you believe that a BPD feels any remorse?  Do you believe that they move onto another r/s only to realise that the last one wasn't so bad after all and perhaps the grass isn't always greener?  Or do I kid myself ... .  ?

hey happiness...

I do not believe my ex feels remorse, no.

I think she genuinely feels like the victim in all this and that I deserved to be cut off. She feels that I 'burnt her more than anyone' and it's warranted to remove me from her life in a callous fashion.

I am the devil woman.   

I know that she never felt bad about cutting out any of the other people from her life  (I was with her when I witnessed several brutal cut offs of others). She made these people sound so bad to me at the time, that I understood why she 'had' to cut them off.

So it's likely my ex is now smearing me to all her friends and they are in full support of her cutting me off too etc.

I have wondered how my ex actually sleeps at night. But she must be at peace with it... or else she probably would have reached out to me by now... it's been 5 months.

She made the drastic decision to change her number and burn all bridges... .   

What I think is that they don't feel basic, grounded remorse, because in their worlds, they haven't done anything wrong by treating us the way they did. If they were able to feel a grounded remorse, they wouldn't continue the same patterns over and over again.

My ex felt remorse too - when it suited him, when he could get attention from others because of it AND when he could continue to butt into my life using remorse as an excuse. Like asking my friends how I was, if I was OK, because he was "so sorry for how he ended things and felt so bad for having behaved that way". And he got what he wanted out of this fake remorse most of the time. One of my friends actually asked me to please have a talk with him, because he had sounded so down and was really worried about me. Whaaa? Seriously? She had SEEN the mail he wrote me when he dumped me. She knew all my reasons for not wanting to ever have contact with him again and here she was, asking me to find it in my heart to listen to him? I was amazed. because I saw how she fell for his skilled manipulations, the same manipulations I had fallen for over and over.

If he had truly felt remorse, he would have accepted and RESPECTED my request to leave me alone, butt out of my life and not try to use our friends to get info about me. Did any of that happen? Nopes, quite the opposite.

So no, I don't think they feel genuine remorse, UNLESS it fits into the next mindgame that they're gonna play.

Find peace in that. The fact that they cannot feel remorse, because they cannot do wrong and it's never their fault (in their worlds).

Diana82 and SurvivedLove - I must admit I couldn't ever cut someone off and ignore them the way my ex did.  Something in SurvivedLove's quote here made me remember something.  The victim thing again.  I remember when my ex first met one of my friend's and her husband.  We went out to dinner.  As we left the restaurant, my friend turned to my ex and said "look after her won't you", which I thought was kind of sweet and most people would have said "of course, I have every intention of doing so" or something alone those lines.  My ex said "look after her?  Who's going to look after me?".  I always found that odd, but just put it to the back of my mind.  It was all about him you see and how he felt wasn't it.  It just kind of makes sense now. 

so your ex cut people off too, happiness?

Did he cut you off?

I'd never seen someone that age behave like that. The ignoring people's calls forever... blocking so many people on facebook (petty and childhish) and then just wiping them off over minor conflicts or misunderstandings.

I started to notice that my ex was always very fearful of running into anyone she had cut off.

For example, we'd have to avoid certain areas or events because she was convinced one of her ex friend's may be there (another woman she cut off) whom she claims was obsessed with her and stalker her).

She gave the excuse that the people she cut off were "crazy" and she didn't trust them and had to stay far away for her own good.

But I now think it's due to embarassment. I think she is that weak, that she couldn't face someone she had cut off.

Yes, I agree, I think it's like a lack of courage and embarrassment.  Mind you, I'd be embarrassed if I behaved like that!

Yes, Diana82 - my ex did just that.  Every time we had a fight he would cut me off not answering my calls/emails/texts and then he'd calm down and act like he was doing me a favour.  This got worse as time went on ignoring me for slightly longer to make me suffer and to teach me a lesson.  This went on throughout the whole relationship.  He did the same to the women before me and funnily enough, as you mention, he told me they were all crazy.  His brother did the same thing.  It must be linked to childhood, as they both seem to have it, though his brother is a bit older and doesn't seem to be so badly affected.  I can't speak for the other brothers, as I don't know them well enough.  Mind you, out of the five siblings, he only speaks to three (one barely), as the other two he kind of fell out with them too. 

I remember going to one of the brother's weddings last year and of course, all six brothers in total were there.  I asked him if he'd say hello to the main one that he doesn't speak to and he said no.  I said but he's your brother - I was truly horrified (as this brother really didn't do anything that bad to stop them from speaking).  My ex got really angry with me and told me to mind my own business.  I couldn't believe it.  I don't see why they feel the need to cut people off like they do. I can only imagine it's to do with an insecurity, embarrassment maybe, but most definitely cowardice.  I could never do that with anyone in my life just cut them off like that. 

Yes, Diana82, you are not alone here.

My ex tended to have more panic attacks when we argued... and only gave me the silent treatment when she dumped me.

My ex changed her number a week after I was trying to apologise and then seek explanation. I merely sent her a text telling her I feel I need more explanation of why she hastily dumped me over an argument. I said I couldn’t understand why she could leave me over this...

And that we had been together for so long... that I just needed to know if she was unhappy in other ways.

I got ignored and not long after she changed her number (I had tried to ring one last time).

It was the most drastic measure. Nobody has ever changed their number on me before. It’s insulting and it makes me feel like I am a stalker.

It’s just awful.

I still find it the most hurtful thing she could do ON TOP of dump me  :'(

has your ex blocked all contact with you too? 

It's weird because SHE ex dumped ME. Yet she is the one acting like the victim... changing her number... .  wiping me off like I'm a devil woman...

We broke up a few months ago Diana, but he refused to speak to me.  He didn't change his number of anything like that, but yes, he cut me off.  Also if it's any consolation, he left me too. I didn't leave him. I think he thought I was going to, but I had no intention of it.  I loved him.  The sad thing is I know that if I emailed him/messaged him, he would read it and it would make him sad, because I know that he didn't really want to leave me.  He did this to spite me and in turn in fact has been spiting himself.  This is what they do so I understand.  It's self destruct.  Yes, the victim.

Happiness> what reasons did your ex give you for dumping you?

I had so many conflicting reasons in the space of 7 minutes!

1 minute she screamed that she has "no more to give! We are not working!" and "I don't have the feeling!'

And then she'd be calmer the next saying " I'll always be here for you... I think we are both great people" and "why would you want to be with me now? How can you trust me again?"

And moments later she was angry again telling me " you have a mean streak! You BURNT me! Leave me alone. You're a text terroriser. Just leave me alone!"

Hey Happines68,  

It's takes a while to accept the bitter pill that our ex's were not experiencing the relationship that same as we were.     Buried beneath our ex's lies hidden pain, shame, mistrust and twisted pretzel logic that get's triggered once intimacy, vulnerability and emotional reciprocity are brought to the table. In their minds relationships are all about filling up their dead spaces and need: the need to be rescued, reparented, and filling up their bottomless pit. The relationship was never about mature adult reciprocity. If our ex's could fix what they so easily break none of us would be on here working hard to put the pieces of our lives back together.

We have the tendency to apply our own thinking to how "they" must be feeling but we cannot confuse "remorse" with "shame" or "feeling bad." They are not feeling "our hurt" or the hurt they caused us. They are constantly feeling their own "hurt" and are consumed by it. It may seem maliciously self-absorbed but that is the disorder. They are really sick people.

If they were capable of feeling our pain they would make amends and would be more than capable of righting their wrongs with compassion and empathy; which the lack. That is the disorder of BPD. BPD means I'm so broken, I'm so hurt, I'm so miserable, I'm so shame-filled, I'm so lacking in identity, I'm such a bad person, I hate myself, no one will ever love me... .  it's a mememememe world and their pain is the star of the show.

This is why they don't have emotional room for us. This is why they can't see past their own noses. They are pathologically consumed with their pain.


They feel more shame than remorse. When they move on they're really just compounding their buried pain. Can they miss us? Yes. Have we been devalued? Yes. Do they believe the grass is greener? Perhaps. But if they had insight to correct their wrongdoings they wouldn't be disordered. They lack insight. It isn't personal. It's about their need. You aren't kidding yourself. You're just doing your best to make sense of an irrational disorder.

BPD

Diana - there was always a different reason every time he did this.  I wouldn't listen to any of it.  None of it is the real truth.  I think they just get scared.

Thanks BPDspell - what you say makes so much sense.  You say there about being broken.  That's what he told me early in July when we had a short break.  I think he's aware of his problem.  He just doesn't know what to do.  It's almost like a cry for help.  However, now he's chosen to be out of my life, I can't help him. If we were together now, I'd at least try to get him to have counselling, as I think he would be partially open to help.  I don't think he's so far gone that there's no return.  Thanks for this post, as it really helps reading what you've written.  So much so that I'm going to read it again and again ... .    :)

Maybe just a tad of remorse, but not much. I too think that they are too caught up in their own needs and pain to truly consider another in a deep way. My ex cut me off after an argument and I pleaded that we meet, try to understand one another, cut through the miscommunications, etc. No response to that text and then silence. I did try to re-estabish contact a few months later and she did, cautiously respond, but after a few weeks of texts, I began to feel like I was getting the run around... .  her telling me she was too busy to see anyone but then telling me she had spent the weekend with friends, breaking a dinner engagement with me (as friends) at the last minute. And then telling me that she didn't want to be my friend because had violated her boundaries on many occasions and me racking my brain to figure out what she could be referring too... and feeling guilty too. Like, what did I do to hurt her, etc. But, ultimately, I do think she needed to see herself as a victim because other than the one argument we had in 5 months, I treated her with so much kindness and patience. Always apologizing if she said her needs were not being met, asking her what she needed from me if something I had done made her feel insecure. But, it was almost always about her needs, not mine. She talked about her birthday for weeks before and after, but refused to spend even an hour with me on mine, or sometime around that day, even though we had been sleeping together, texting everyday, etc. That floored me. She sent me a happy birthday text. And soon after that cut me off, as I confronted her about me always needing to put my needs aside. Told me we were 'friends with unclear boundaries' and that she had been clear  with me that she did not want a relationship in spite of a lot of mixed messages. (Just wanted sex!) And me, of course, ignoring the parts I didn't want to hear and clinging to the signs that maybe she had true feelings for me. Now, that's my issue to resolve.

The thing that blows me away as I read these posts is how similar the behavior of BPDs (or suspected BPD's) is. So many of the stories are so close to mine. Like others of you, I could never just cut someone off that cleanly that I had so recently had feelings for... HOW DO THEY DO THAT!

But, the behaviors are remarkably predictable and identical... .  as if they are all clones... .  yes, like a real physical illness that goes through incredibly predictable stages (like having the chicken pox... .  sore throat, itchy bumps, pus, then scabbing over after a few days... .  totally predictable). We think of psychological issues as being more unique to each individual, but in fact these stories make me believe that (untreated) BPD is just as predictable as a physical illness, an infection with a course that it invariably runs through. Incredible!

A couple more thoughts... .  its the triggering, I think. When someone with this disorder becomes truly threatened... triggered, they are fighting for their survival and that is all that matters. At other times, there may be some empathy. (But, honestly, my experiences is that the empathy is pretty limited even under the best of circumstances... .  almost like going through the motions because they have learned it is the right thing to do, not because they truly FEEL it. My experience was that it stil almost always came back to what my ex needed and she was unable to put aside her own discomfort in order to give me what I might have needed at the time... .  such as a little reassurance that I truly mattered to  her, that it was ok to sometimes feel insecure, that I could mess up and still be loved, etc.)

I think that a defining characteristic is a self-centeredness in terms of being consumed with their own pain and needs because so many of them were abused or neglected in some way when they were vulnerable children. They are stuck in that child or adolescent stage... .  

bk224 - I had to laugh to myself at "HOW DO THEY DO THAT!" - I ask myself that question every day "how could he do that?"  I agree that this stems from childhood.  I wish I could have been a fly on the wall during my exbfBPD's childhood.  It makes me very sad to think of him ever being abandoned by anyone or having the feeling of abandonment.  I've never ever felt totally abandoned and had a pretty good childhood.  With the BPD, you kind of want to take their pain away and tell them that it's ok and you will be there and there's no need to be afraid.  My exbfBPD is going to continue his pattern again and again and most probably some of those women will be thinking of leaving him, I never was. 

No, they dont really feel remorese or guilt. What they feel is shame. Remorse and guilt are feelings of a higher emotional level than shame. Remorse and guilt requires the ability to empathize with others. Remorse and guilt are about others. Shame is about self.  They operate from shame not guilt. If anything, they may feel shame about the ending of the relationship, but not guilt about how it may have hurt you. If theybfelt this they would apologize. How many BPDs apologize for their actions? Mine apologized sometimes during our relationship. But im convinced this was scripted. He knew it was something he had to do to maintain the relationship. Once he decided he was done with me, i know there was no more guilt remorse or apologies. Only shame and blame.

I think that pretty much sums it up for me.

My exuBPDgf may consider me to be her ex boyfriend but i'm starting to realise that the day i met her i couldve been anyone! She made me feel like i was special to her throughout the idealisation stage but in reality she never thought i was special. I was a mere object that filled an empty void rooted deep within her. And i would bet my house on the fact that she felt/feels no remorse or guilt towards the way she left me for dead at the end! They simply cannot focus on any other emotions except their own! In her distorted mind I hurt her more than i'll ever know!  lol

So now when i think back to the way she screamed at me, manipulated me, used me, be-littled me and abused me I can't take it personally. They were the actions of an emotionally immature girl, whos life is controlled by a personality disorder.

My thoughts towards her fluctuate on a daily basis but today she has my sympathy!

Hey All!

Our CT had some very interesting things to say about the way my BPDh feels now that we are separated. He is in a constant state of pain, guilt and shame. It goes hand in hand with the disorder. As to our pending divorce, he feels relief. Within 3 weeks of our marriage, he convinced himself that I would eventually end it. He literally believed that I checked out years ago. All he was doing throughout the course of the marriage was testing me to see if he could prove himself right. All the while, in pain and anguish at the fear of loosing me. Of course, now that I have done what he always believed I would, he is relieved, and no longer has to live with the fear that controlled his disordered mind! WOW!

Best Wishes,

Val78

I think my crazyx feels shame just like some of the other posters have said.  I also think he has moments where he feels some genuine guilt and remorse.  I also think he has more moments where he fakes guilt and remorse to get what he wants. Maddening.

However... .  none of the real feelings he has are motivating him to get help, so they just sit there, like a pot simmering with sludge.  All these negative feelings he's created throughout his life (which manifest mostly in rage) add more ick to the sludge with each passing day.  Eventually, the pot boils over and that nastiness spills out on whomever is unfortunate enough to be close to him. After some of the sludge releases, he feels better for a brief moment, but he immediately starts refilling the pot with sludge.

One of the hardest things for me -- still -- after so many years of processing all of this is that I can't fathom how a person can be soo miserable, yet refuse to do anything about it.

Crazyx is very intelligent, yet he's missed the point that the common denominator to all of his misery is HIM.  


 

Happiness68 - you sound like a very caring and compassionate person and it's too bad he decided not to hold onto that.

As far as "getting him help."  I don't want to be the big nay sayer here, but I don't want you to torture yourself with the "what if" about counseling. It's doubtful that you could have gotten him into counseling and even if he did go, it would likely be a charade. We can torture ourselves with the "what if's."  That was one of my big "what if's" too and it drove me batty.  I'm not saying your ex is beyond help.  I am saying that oftentimes, we need to realize that any help they get might be more effective if it excludes us.  There's a reason they hang out with us.  We let them get away with their horrible behavior!  So then, we have become part of the problem.  It's hard to realize that we aren't any better for them than they are for us!

turtle

Thanks Turtle. I loved him very much. I still do.  Perhaps you're right about the counselling.  Yes, I do drive myself mad with what if's.  It's funny talking about counselling.  About 18 months ago he told me that I needed counselling and do you know I went.  I tried it once 18 months ago and the lady I went to actually told me after about 4 sessions that I really didn't need help at all, but he did.  I went to another about 6 months ago who told me the same thing and that he was projecting everything onto me.  One thing they both said that I seem to be a very grounded individual and they really didn't think I needed any form of counselling.  I think if anything I could have got him to go to a couples counselling with me, though if I'm honest I'd have had to work at that, since he was adamant I was the problem.

When I read ... .  

Quote - One of the hardest things for me -- still -- after so many years of processing all of this is that I can't fathom how a person can be soo miserable, yet refuse to do anything about it.

Crazyx is very intelligent, yet he's missed the point that the common denominator to all of his misery is HIM. -

I have to say Turtle, you sound like you've read my mind.  I still think now how unhappy my ex is with his life and I can't believe he can possibly think the problem was me as he's still unhappy.  Plus he will move onto the next woman and feel things aren't right with her.  Surely sooner or later this type of person has to question themselves?  I would.  I know I"m not ill and he is, but it's just incredible.  I do know that he used to feel shame and remorse at how he spoke to me at times.  I also know how much he loved me, even the day he left. I live in the hope that his r/s with me will at least one day make him remember that we did have good times. I can't bear to think of him thinking forever that we were just rubbish.  We really were very good together. I'd say we were pretty close to perfection.  I do remember the bad times too.  I remember all of it.  I have a very good memory.  In fact, I was just saying to a friend of mine the other day how I remember we argued in months 2, 4, 6, 7 (twice), 8, 9 and that's just the beginning.  I try to hold onto all of that. I've never experienced anything like this before and i think this is what makes it so very hard to get over.  It's been 3 months now. Normally I've moved on by now.  This time I feel I need time for me (maybe where I isolated myself) to grieve and get over it.  I'm getting there.  Slowly admittedly but surely.  I'm getting there and as I was told last night on this very site I'm saying my mantra in the mornings x 10 - I'm never going back  :)

 

Turtle, this is well said. I've had this thought many times over the years about my BPDxgf. Maybe it's worth its own thread?

Not only is it useful to understand and accept that this is true (for us as nons), but how they can possibly do this might be interesting to discuss... .  Or am I just falling into the 'need to understand' role... .    :-)

PP

We ALL have the "need to understand."  It's not an abnormal "need." The problem is... .  we never will.  We're just not wired the way they are -- and we need to remain grateful for that.

After all the years of asking "why?"  I still only come up with one answer:  Because he's mentally ill.

I was like a hamster on the wheel for years trying to understand, trying to cope, trying to learn, trying to explain, defend, cooerce, blah, blah, blah, etc.  And in the end... .  three little words covered the whole thing. He's mentally ill.  Isn't that irritating?  That after all the effort, that's what I came up with?  Sad, but true.

PrettyPlease --- start that thread.  I promise to chime in!

turtle

'Mentally ill'. That is what it most often comes back to. Either that or it's a very devious choice to be that way. The amount of the intent involved can make it seem more questionable. I often see this as the house of cards a pwBPD has built inside themselves, within their lives and how they interact with others. Doing whatever it takes to keep that house of cards from falling. That could be a decision they are making whether they are mentally ill or not, so it's confusing no matter which way we try to understand it. Why someone would not reach out for real help could show it's mental illness, or they don't want their games to end, they're too ashamed, they don't care... .  BPD/traits=

I'll start this thread.  I'll do it now. Let's see what everybody thinks.  Look out for it on the board.