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Hi everyone

Just curious if anyone here has ever been 'painted white' after their ex has cut them off completely in a callous fashion?  Or has anyone here been dumped so harshly and had complete silence from the ex only to be contacted later down the track?

For those unfamiliar with my other threads, my ex dumped me hastily after an argument. She told me to leave her alone because I apparenty "burnt her more than anyone".  Then went 100% silent on me, ignored all my attempts to apologise/reconcile, changed her number, wouldn't return my stuff, still hasn't returned all my stuff or told me what happened to it.

Then her flatmate/friend told me she wants me "out of her life" and doesn't want to speak to me again.

After I was told that lovely piece of information... I went completey NC for 3 months. It's now been 5 months and have not heard anything from her.

It's as if she's disappeared from the planet. She used to live right around the corner from me in an apartment and I have not seen her once!  Even in the supermarket. I even think she may have moved.

I keep wondering if she will ever try to make contact in some way. In my experience, the 'dumper' usually does try to reach out at some point. Even to just of our curiosity or some compassion.

But my ex always acts like the victim so I think it's highly unlikely.  Especially as she has changed her number.

As much as I hate to tell you this... .  a lot of times they do "recycle"... .  but I hope this isn't wishful thinking Diana82... .  trust me... .  if you are burning a candle for her, douse it with a bucket of water, step on it and throw it in the deepest part of the ocean.

If, however, you are genuinely concerned about her reappearance in your life, I would have a gameplan prepared for her return.  I took mine back after she did everything in her power to ruin my life.  You don't want any part of what I experienced.  Run.  Hide if you have to.  Whatever you do, assume she is Medusa herself.  You may think I am over reacting, but honestly, I think I'm being much more subtle than I could be.

Anyway, sorry to carry on if you have no intention of reconnecting with the BPD world.  If you truly are done with her for good and want nothing to do with her... .  you truly are a better man than I ever was. 

F1

Hey foolishone

I've heard of the recycle thing. But I don't think my ex operates like that...

The woman before me got the exact same treatment as I did- they had a text fight (same as us) and my ex cut her off... didn't answer any more of her calls and blocked her on facebook. She then moved on to me.

I have no proof my ex didn't try to reconnect with this woman... but I get the feeling when she is 'done' she is done.

But I am curious because these other relationships of hers were brief. I was with this woman for 3 years... we have a lot of history... I got to know her entire extended family! so I keep wondering if I may be treated *a little* differently.

Everyone in my life keeps saying my ex is well and truly gone and will never apologise or take any responsibility for anything in the breakup.

I certainly don't want my ex back after this ___ treatment. But I am really quite shocked she hasn't tried to contact me at all even after 5 months.

It is definitely the strangest break up ever.   It feels like I have wasted 3 years of my life!

There's no acknowledgment from her of the good times we shared (which were plenty)... or even appreciation that although we had a fight and were not working... that she did love me and I her for a long time.

I have a feeling if my ex did want to reconnect she may be embarassed or feel awkward... I know I would! If I had changed my number, ignored them and acted petty etc...

Closure is not part of the BPD mindset... .  does the remora have closure with the shark?  Once they have fed and got all they need or can get from you, they will find a new host.  I know that sounds heartless... .  only because it is.

Thank your lucky stars if she never contacts you again.

Those three years truly wasted only if she returns to your life... .  otherwise it was a valuable lesson that is well learned early than late.

F1

Hi Diana82,

I am sorry that you were treated that way. To be completely excised from somebody's life, and somebody close to your heart hurts deeply. When it happened to me I had never known anything so painful.

To answer your question, yes, I was painted white again after being dumped and cut off from my uBPDbf's life for 7 months. We had been together for about 2 years. Things had been turbulent for a while but recently we had been away for a romantic trip and things seemed to be getting better. I had no idea about BPD at the time. I left his house one evening and in the 10 mins it took me to get home he had apparently painted me black and cut me out of his life, for no apparent reason whatsoever. I rang him to tell him something sweet and he didn't pick up the phone and never again did. He refused any contact and he only sent a text telling me to get lost and one email with the same basic message. To him that was enough. After that it was as if he had disappeared from the face of the earth. We live a 10-minute walk from each other but I never even saw him again. He refused to give me my stuff back for the first 5 months until I fought so hard for it that it was easier to give it back than not. I didn't go NC but LC but nothing I did made any difference. He hated me.

He isn't the type to recycle anybody and never has in the past. When he is done he is done an he is a very proud man. But after 7 months he came back. I had accepted we were over by then but had remained LC. It was a slow and a painful process for both of us. I was painted whitest white again. He has been on his knees begging my forgiveness, telling me I am the love of his life and has shown determination not to break up with me again. That being said, I don't stay white of course. He will still go through his push pull and the splitting, but he hasn't ever cut me out of his life again.

Diana82,

My answer is yes. Many a time. 3 definite times I was painted black and discarded. 3 times painted white and then 2 kids throughout the break up and make up recycles. Now she left again and this time I was painted black yet again. Her reasoning is that when I got mad, which was rare, I said "fxxk" a lot. I find it hilarious because my kids never heard a swear word out of my mouth. So she left, gave me the kids 5 nights a week to party it up with my next replacement.

It sounds like you would like a recycle attempt at least to have some sort of choice in the matter. Well, yeah me to, but my choices have sucked thus far. Even though my kids are awesome, it would be nice to NOT have their mom be a total scumball.

Your ex has given you freedom. Onto the next chapter.

Mitti>  so did you and your ex argue prior to you being cut off?

I've heard BPDs can cut off their partners and friends over minor disagreements. And also feel easily threatened.

And are you now friends/on speaking terms with your ex?

I said some very raw things to my ex... because I had got really suspicious of her change in stories of abuse. She claimed to have been abused/assaulted/stalked by every woman she had ever gone out with.

She had this victim persona all the time... and it worked on me for a long time. But the stories would change and I picked up on inconsistencies. I also thought she may be bipolar as she suffered chronic depression, complained about feeling isolated and lonely and she would bite my head off one minute and then get on with things- as if she hadn't just been rude.

She seemed to have different personalities and stuff just didn't quite add up. And one day she bit my head off again when I asked her why she changed her mind over something.  So I decided to pull her up on being too inconsistent, and defensive. I said she has dramatic shifts and that she gets way too defensive...

It was the first time I have ever said this to her... but it had been building up for so long. I was super emotional (usually I am a peaceful person) and brought up so many past examples. Because I was so emotional, I was a bit incoherent too.

She refuted all of it and ended up scolding me for being too "suspicious". Later told me this conversation "burnt her" and that I have "issues" and "need help".

She dumped me over that. There was no negotiation... no discussion...

foolish one>  Lol, Medusa!  I had to laugh...

:)

My ex does seem to be a nasty piece of work. Have you been smeared?

I heard from 1 person my ex called me a "crazy"  and my ex's parting words were that I am a "text harasser".

My ex lied about one woman stalking her... most likely lied about another ex assaulting her... so god knows what else she will say about me.

You'd think by now people would catch on that her stories seem far-fetched. I mean, it did take me almost 3 years but I am a gullible rescuer type

Let me add the word "yet" to the end of that last sentence.

This is typical BPD behavior, and I had to ask myself, "Is this what I want for the rest of my life?"

Diana,

You are obviously in pain over this relationship. Most breakups after a long term relationship are hard, but with a BPD it is especially awful.

Mine tried to push me to commit suicide so she would not have to share custody of our son. It worked on her husband, so apparently she thought she would try it again. Her distortion campaign is still running full tilt, and her lackeys are making life as difficult as possible for me. Consider yourself lucky if your ex never contacts you again. You will NEVER get closure from her. Her mental illness will not allow her to accept any responsibility for her own behavior.

One of the primary characteristics of BPD is black and white thinking, as you are already aware. When a pwBPD feels bad over their own bad behavior, projection takes over and they blame others. They are not truly able to take responsibility for bad behavior, probably due to the black and white thinking-- which does not allow for a good person to behave poorly. (That would be a shade of gray) Instead of seeing a friend who screwed up, they immediately feel that person is now an enemy and respond accordingly. This problem is the same for them internally, also. When a pwBPD behaves badly, they feel that they are "all bad." This horrific feeling must be dealt with, so it gets projected onto other people. When your ex told you that you "burnt her", it was more about what she felt (horrible over her own behavior and being caught lying) so she immediately and subconsciously projected all of the "bad" on to you.

You can rehash things in your mind a thousand different ways and stay stuck, or you can accept this simple truth: It wasn't really what you said or did. It was her BPD taking over, and pushing all of her bad feelings on to you. Regardless of how delicately you approached it, pwBPD do not like to be exposed. You saw through her, and questioned the facade she wanted you to believe. Once that happens, there is very little chance the relationship can continue, because the pwBPD is no longer in control.

Non-BPD people can only live with the twisted reality of a BPD for so long. You will make yourself insane trying to understand the logic in their heads, because it is not based on rational thinking or facts as most people understand them. Everything is based on how the BPD is feeling at a given moment in time and those feelings can change rapidly, completely independent of actual facts or reality. A friendly greeting and a smile can mean "I hate you" to a BPD, because that just happened to be the way they were feeling at the time. It often has absolutely nothing to do with reality.

Think about the words she used "you burnt me worse than anyone else!" If your BPDex had been "almost raped" by one of her exes, how could your questioning of her stories be worse than being "almost raped"? It doesn't make sense to a rational mind, and it never will. For your own sake, stop ruminating over the crazy and try to get yourself into a healthier area of inquiry.

Diana/FoolishOne - I laughed too about "Medusa" ;-)

Diana, I see where you're coming from here and feel pretty much the same.  My exbfBPD prior to me was married 20 years and then had an 18 month period where he went from one woman to another for 2-3 months and I always found it odd to think that none of these relationships had lasted - from what I understand there were 5/6 of these in that short space of time.  However, I, like you, believe that I was different (perhaps I kid myself here), because we were together 2 1/2 years and I know in my heart of hearts that he loved his life with me, my family, the closeness and everything about us.  He just always wanted more.  Since BPD's by the sound of things do recycle, I wonder too if mine will.  I, like you again, think to myself how I'd be too embarrassed/ashamed to come back after the way he treated me at the end with me trying to resolve things and him shouting/swearing, you know, the works.  He even went round telling people he'd called the police on me, but that wasn't true.  I know this because if that was the case, the police would have been to see me, as it's their duty, but they didn't come.  I was painted black and probably still am.  However, I wonder too if the painting white day will come.  The thing is I don't believe you can run and hide from yourself and your own feelings.  I also think that when it comes to us thinking that shame/guilt/embarrassment would stop their return, remember they aren't like us and don't think like us at all.  My exbfBPD - I believe he has the arrogance to (if he wants to) try to return.  Expect the unexpected is what I think.  I drove myself mad with the thought of his return for a while, but now I think I need to get on with my life.  If he tries to recycle, I will deal with it at the time.  You too should try to think the same on this one.

That time there was no argument just prior to being cut off, but we had gone through a rough patch just before with constant arguments, raging etc. That time when he dumped me was the most brutal yet and ever, we had just come back from a romantic get away and we seemed fine. He was depressed though. Just like your ex he often has a victim mentality, but at the same time he has always had a lot of insight into his own personal difficulties. He is aware of his fear of intimacy but then again as a typical pwBPD he will change his position and attitude like the weather. So he also admits to having been abusive both in our r/s and previous ones. Like yours he feels isolated and lonely, but I believe that is very common with pwBPDs.

We are kind of still together and even though we are going through another difficult phase that may lead to a lasting breakup this time, we still talk. He has never cut me off again since that time. I post mostly on the undecided board.

For how long had you been together when your ex dumped you? Does she ever accept any blame herself? My pwBPD will but only so long as it requires nothing from him. He finds it very difficult to make any sacrifices for somebody he is in an intimate r/s with. It's as if he loses a part of himself in doing so. He has admitted in T to feeling this way.

I have lost it with him many times and it has completely stunned me not only how he expects me to not take to heart his raging, name-calling etc but get over my outbursts as well. To us nons it's not acceptable behavior but I think to them it is kind of normal. They have lived that way their whole lives. That doesn't mean he won't blame me for things I have said but disregard his own outrageous behavior. After a while he will just want to continue as if it never happened.

I don't know if your ex is likely to contact you again. Do you want her to? They probably usually follow a learned pattern. But I know that in the case of my pwBPD, I am the only one he has ever recycled. He says himself it worries him he can't let me go. But I always live with the conviction, and fear, that if things got bad enough for him he would. So even though things improved significantly after we got back together I am not sure I can continue in this r/s.

Bentnotbroken>

Yes I’m in a lot of pain still. I’m seeing a therapist soon who did a thesis in BPD and I think this could help. 

My head knows she’s a freak and it’s for the best. But I keep wondering... why did she leave me over THAT? I know you cannot make sense of a mentally ill person.

But I tend to think my ex only has some BPD traits... and could even be bipolar. 

Is it because I ‘found out’ about her? Or was she so scared I was about to dump her because I never told her off like this before so she got in first?

It makes me so suspicious that she’d dump me for ultimately saying I am suspicious of her. 

I'm even wondering if she was cheating.

Because the woman she dated before me who apparently became my ex's "friend" was still in touch with my ex 3 months into our relationship. And my ex didn't even tell this 'friend' that she started seeing me. And one day they had a massive text war and the 'friend" is cut off for good in the most brutal way. My ex was being DECEPTIVE to that 'friend' any way! by not telling her she was seeing me.

I should have known better right... ?

If someone can treat a past date/lover or whatever like that and be deceptive with THEM... why would I be treated any differently?

Her flatmate friend actually shouted to me “YOU WILL NEVER GET CLOSURE FROM HER!”

I guess he is an enabler... like her proxy perhaps.  The two of them always had this “special” friendship (even my ex admitted)... she emotionall relied on him.  I think she got him to do her dirty work and he is playing protector.

He must know about her crazy weak ways. Unless he is also brainwashed into thinking she is a poor victim too. It’s scary how convincing they are

Mitti> I see... did your ex explain why he cut you off though? did you guys talk about this?

I'd been with my ex for almost 3 years. I was literally at the hospital bedside of her new baby nephew 1 week prior to her brutal cut off. I was part of her life in a big way.

I don't recall my ex ever saying "sorry I upset you" once over the 3 years. If I was ever feeling insecure, jealous or upset- I would be scolded like a child, made to feel like I had "issues" for feeling this way or she'd play the victim and tell me a sob story.

Once after she was really rude to me... I stormed out of her house. Instead of apologising for her snappiness... she turned it all back on her and had a panic attack (likely fake) and told me her ex tried to 'rape her'.  This story was COMPLETELY different to the stories she told me about this same ex before.

Mitti> I think I want some acknowledgement from her. For her to say she also made mistakes. For her to say she doesn't actually think I am a bad person but had a meltdown. I won't be getting back together with her ever. But I still feel like I want her to reach out one day.

When she dumped me, she just blamed everything on me. I have issues... I need help... I am too suspicious... I burnt her... I'm 'nuts', I am disrespectful... I am a text harasser... I have a mean streak etc etc

And she is faultless. Apparently.


In our text argument I brought up two past arguments as an example of her inconsistent behaviour.

She brought up triple. She retaliated like a psycho and threw all this stuff back at me... things I had apparently said to her (a lot of it was exaggerated or fabricated), and she even said in reference to that argument I mentioned above-  'I HAD to tell you I was almost raped for you to apologise!"


This line still freaks me out. It's almost as if she is admitting her own manipulation!

In the reading that I have done on BPD, the thing that is almost guaranteed to trigger splitting and a BPD distortion campaign (AKA smear campaign) is threatening to expose the truth about the BPD's behaviors. The threat doesn't even have to be expressed or implied. If the pwBPD FEELS that they are in danger of being exposed, the claws come out and the only tool that they have to deal with this fear is to destroy the other person as completely as possible.

I would bet money that the "attempted rape" never happened. Remember that BPD also involves poor impulse control. When she was upset, she spewed out a lie that put herself in the victim position on the drama triangle. You then became the rescuer, instead of the persecutor. Manipulation mission accomplished.

We have talked about it and depending on where he is in his push pull cycle I will get different stories. He does protect his version of a decent breakup though, but I am pretty sure he has to because the guilt he feels is overwhelming to him. He has realized he caused me to mentally break down to the point where I now suffer from PTSD. I was a total wreck and I still have problems because of it. He says  he "broke up" with me because the r/s was too destructive, he was feeling too panicky about us. I believe this to be the truth to a degree but he seems to be under the impression that an argument preceded the breakup and it didn't. But pwBPDs often alter reality to fit with their intense feelings in order to have their feelings make sense.

One thing he did reveal in T, that seemed bewildering to him and to me also, was that during the time apart when I tried to stay LC, he felt I was argumentative and blaming and basically splitting him black, although he didn't use that expression. And that is the very opposite of the truth. I was being supportive and the little contact I did attempt was letting him know I was there, I still loved him and I never demanded a response from him. In T he saw and accepted that his recollection was flawed and contrary to what really had happened. That was liberating to hear and unfortunately from what I read on these boards not common. Quite disturbing to hear him describe how he had interpreted everything then.

It seems common with pwBPDs to never apologize, except as a means to get what they want. They can be very manipulative and so is my bf. He never used to apologize and even though he has asked my forgiveness for what he put me through he still has problems apologizing. It's easier for him to apologize for small trivial things than the ones that really hurt. But this is also something that has improved with time. It is very hurtful to never get any apologies for the abusive behavior they subject us too.

I agree with BentNotBroken that the attempted rape probably never happened, especially when you think about how and in what context she told you about it. Like you say, as an admission of manipulation.

I completely understand that you want and need closure to be able to move on. That's only normal. We all do. I don't know about your ex of course but if she has never admitted guilt in 3 years, you may be doing yourself harm by expecting it now. At the same time, I never expected my bf to come back and he did. So I'd be the first to say that even though they follow some patterns with their push pull, projections and splitting, at the same time they are individuals and we can't predict how one person is going to react/behave from another. They do feel different towards different people, just like we do and we may touch them in a different way than somebody before us did. But the BPD will always still come into play out when their fears of intimacy is triggered, always, until they get treatment.

If you are sure you will not take her back and I am sure this is probably the healthiest option for you, albeit I can understand any reasons for why you may waver, to stay NC and not expect anything from her would be the quickest road to recovery.

This is the dealbreaker for me. The constant alterations of reality work for her, and keep her BPD flourishing. It drove me nearly insane to be constantly accused of saying things I did not say and doing hurtful things I did not do. The kind, decent things I did on a daily basis were forgotten completely, or given a nasty, ulterior motive. It was complete crazymaking.


I discovered that my BPDexgf could have entire arguments with me completely in her own head when I wasn't even there. She would "fill in" for me, and attribute to me the nastiest, most hurtful responses, justifying how she felt at the time. The next time she saw me or spoke to me, I bore the brunt of her hurt and anger over an argument I had never even participated in. It was absolutely bizarre, and it took me quite a while to figure out this was taking place. She never admitted to it, of course, but when I confronted her about these arguments taking place in her own head, she was silent and then quickly changed the subject.


This was another thing that was hard for me to see and accept. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and believed her words despite the repeated behavior. I would get a mumbled apology for a rage that had lasted for hours, and she would write it off as PMS. I accepted the apologies, despite them being utterly insufficient to make up for the damage done. She had little to no memory of what she said or how she behaved, instead giving a generic "I'm sorry about the things I said." It was a manipulation to keep me around, not a sincere apology in any way.

Diana,

My ex has currently been in touch with me and yes, has seemed to paint me white after 3 months NC after painting me black overnight.

We hung out last night as friends, i asked her how she was doing and stuff, she wanted to see some old friends that own a bar we know, so we went together. She then continued to call me "babe", which made it very awkward for me, she seems to have painted me white and is hoping for more than a friendship, which obviously is most likely not going to be possible as this is looking like a recycle attempt, if i had never discovered this website i would have probably thought this was amazing, but knowing what i know, it seems i will have to have a long talk with her about where me and her stand.

Good luck to you, and if you truely love your ex and she comes back, which there is a high possibility, hopefully you know enough to work it out, but just be wary and dont bring your walls down.

I think BPD's hit a wall in their head both from bad things happening, and also from really good things happening.  It's completely unpredictable.  :)iana- you are trying to logic it out - was there an argument?... .  etc.  Since their thinking and emotions are disordered, they don't operate from a logical emotional place.  There can be NO APPARENT REASON.  It's super scary.  You might try to predict it, but you can't.  I.e., constantly walking on eggshells and trying to adapt to their moods and needs on a constant basis.

Mitti - I too experienced PTSD from my breakup with my BPD.  And it was only a 2 month relationship!  After having had sudden break-ups for no apparent reason from other men - one was an NPD/sociopath, but I think at least one of the other ones was BPD, actually - I was even on the lookout for warning signs of instability.  I didn't see any.  We'd planned the next weekend in detail, he'd talked about my xmas present, he cuddled me all night.  When I was coughing, he asked if I would like him to get me some water... .  and then in the morning he turned me black and dumped me.  There was no compromise here.  None.  It was SO cold.

I never had the chance to recycle, because after he initiated wanting to be friends with me and making plans for a visit on Thanksgiving, he blew me off and then went completely NC.  SCARY!

I now see the NC as a blessing.  Thanks to this board I have stuck with NC on my side.  Otherwise, maybe we could have recycled, and just when I started to trust him again, he would dump me when he got triggered.

They make up any excuse when they do this.  It may have some truth in it.  Basically, I don't think THEY even understand what is happening for them.  They just feel an incredible sense of anxiety, they look at YOU as the cause - and can't see that it is something happening inside of them at all - and then PROJECT upon you a bunch of ___... .   

You can't appeal to their empathy... .  because they really don't have any.  Their dominant emotion and motivation for reconciling anything with you is their need and loneliness.  When they hit the wall again of fear of engulfment, you'll be out again, painted black... .  

Every story has some differences in their sameness.  I was cut off very unexpectedly the first time in an underhanded way by my BPDex joining a dating site.  Very mad at him and when he told me we were still friends I said never, so he cut me out of his life for 5-1/2 months.  He came back, no apology or reason why, and insisted we were just friends but he loved me.  Since he had defined me as a friend he felt free to keep up his search for the perfect woman and tell me about it on top of that.  Yet in between he treated me like a girlfriend.  This hurt a lot, but I sucked it up until finally I blew just before his best long-distance prospect was due to visit him on a weekend.  I said a lot of really vile things to him.  The visit seems to have been a disaster, and both this woman and his newest backup girlfriend seem to have dropped him.  My thinking is that once they got to know him better they would not be such a fool as me to tolerate the way he acted.  Yet he does not try to get in touch with me.  I don't expect him to call me again ever.  If he does I'll be very surprised.  Since we split it seems he's been diagnosed bipolar and though I'm not sure as we don't talk, is probably on meds of some type.  He used to post a lot of garbage on his facebook page and last I looked his postings are very toned down.

Even quite early on in our r/s I had noticed a pattern where a day or two after having reached another level of closeness he would have some type of meltdown. It took me a while before I was even sure it was him because it would usually be brought on by something I did "wrong" to him. It is the intimacy that triggers the reaction and the extreme panic, no less painful for us though.

Yes, I eventually could wrap my head around the sudden break-up with my exNPD/sociopath bf, and then when I saw the same thing happen with my exBPDbf, I knew it was a big deal.  It's like seeing the tip of the ice-berg - the symptoms, the behavior that manifests - and knowing there is a big-ass ice-berg lurking under the surface!  That could sink even a big, strong ship, like the Titanic... .  

I was hoping it wasn't true, that my T was wrong about him being BPD and he would snap out of it - temporary insanity - and come back to me.  After reading more about BPD and finding this board, I joined and named myself HardTruth - because it's a hard truth that there's a damn big solid mass of ice under there! and it's not going to be melting or changing any time soon

With the BPD I know, white becomes black becomes white becomes black becomes...  

I've seen it with me and I've seen it with another SO of hers. Space and no contact is usually the essential ingredient in the black to white shift . Sometimes days. Sometimes months.

Thanks all

Did any of you find history repeated itself? Did your exes treat their other exes the same way ie you saw a pattern? But you never thought YOU':) be treated this way...

I feel so stupid that there was a huge red flag right in front of my eyes! red-flag

1. My ex was still in contact regularly with her fling turned "friend"- 3 months into our rship. She insisted this woman was not an "ex" yet they dated and travelled to one another's home cities (the other girl lives interstate).

My ex did not tell this woman she'd been dating me for 3 months! I asked my ex why and she said "I don't want her drama. She will be so nosey and distressed. I don't want to deal with her. She's not a good friend anyway and we never see each other".

YET they were going to meet in a prearranged catch up in Thailand. Which never happened due to a text war they had

2. So then they had a text war and my ex was equally participating. Yet my ex said this woman was a "crazy freak." it was all her fault.

3. Then my ex ignored all attempts of this girl to call and reconcile. Then my ex cut her off brutally in front of me and blocked her on fb. Refused to talk to her ever again. It was like she was dumping her as a lover :/

SO my ex was deceptive to this woman by not telling her about me- probably misleading her to think she was available. Then she brutally cut her off over a fight.

Arhhh! My ex did the same to me! We had a text fight and I was ignored then cut off. For saying my ex is deceptive... And she is!

This should have been my red flag! Do you think I was foolish to tolerate this ?  Now it seems my ex had this woman as back up!

Diana, you're not foolish.  You weren't familiar with BPD.  None of us were.  I think us nons know there's something wrong in the relationship somewhere, but can never pinpoint it.  It's only when it ends and we start remembering and then researching, which has led us all to here.  It's only now we realise we're not alone and we're not foolish, we were just led in unfortunately.

Bentnotbroken> interesting... .  tell me more about this lack of impulse control (if you don't mind?) :)

So they basically come up with lies on the spot to try to manipulate you?

It seems so extreme to tell me she was almost raped... when it was obvious that I wasn't going to break up with her. I stormed off... but never even got to the front door! 

Her reaction (panic attack + rape story)  was nuts!  I feel ill thinking she lied to me about almost being raped.

So ill... .      I think this is one of the worst things besides her brutal dumping of course

Mitti>

So your ex at least 'asked for your forgiveness'?

That's more than mine will ever do.  After she dumped me and I was crying... I said "what can I do... to make you forgive me?"  (stupid on reflection as I didn't do anthing wrong except bombard her with messages).

And I guess yes... calling her deceptive and such which could be considered "wrong" if she is innocent.  And she said  "it's not about forgiveness... .  "

Happiness>

But I guess that's something any deceptive person could do... not just a BPD...

Anyone can still be in contact with an ex while they are seeing someone new and keep that person as backup... .  in case the new rship doesn't work out.

I guess why else wouldn't my ex tell this alleged "friend" that she's seeing someone new? Wouldn't it come up? 

If you're communicating almost every second day even if it's via text (my ex said this woman would text her about random stuff and she hardly ever replied)... how could it not come up?

Using the excuse of "I don't want to get into her drama. She's nosey and will get upset... .  " and "she's not even a good friend anymore" seems a bit weird to me...

And isn't that a sign of deception... to not tell someone you're dating someone new? Someone you KNOW likes you still?  (this woman did still like my ex a bit).

It was right in front of me. I even witnessed a brutal cut off.

If this is how someone treats an ex lover... or even friend... I should have run.

Do you think if your ex had done this, you would have tolerated it or run?

One of Theodore Millon's (creator of the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory) proposed renamings of BPD: Impulsive Personality Disorder

BPD from the DSM-IV:

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

(3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

(4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, Substance Abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).

Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

(7) chronic feelings of emptiness

(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

(9) transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

I have more to post on the impulse control issue, but I need to get out the door shortly. More later.

Part of an ego trip is my suspicion Diana.  No I wouldn't have tolerated it.  I couldn't.

The first time I was cut off or painted black was for no reason at all. It was about 3 months in and we had a wonderful time together, spoke to each other the next day about what a awesome time we had, told me how much he loved me and that he was a very lucky man. He sent me one last text saying miss my baby... .  then cut me off completely. I mean completely. It was the worst pain Id ever felt. I thought, are you serious, this was all not real, he just used me and then throw me away with out any explanation. No communication about anything? It was so awful, it really was. I felt physical pain and I was having alot of difficulty functioning. So, I found a way to reach him, through a friend of his. I begged and cried that he come back and I promised I would have no questions for him. Just for him to come back and just be friends at the very least. After about 2 weeks and a few more threats from me, that if he didn't come back soon I would write him off forever. He came back. Made up a big elaborate story that I new was a lie, told me he "freaked" and had to do it he was sorry. After this I was painted white again. Moreso than ever. I think he felt he finally had someone who would put up with his lies and ~ and still love him. So, now it really got even more intense and I ate it up of course. On occassion I would bring up what he did to me, but hardly ever, because when I would bring it up he would literally physically withdraw, his face would kind of change to this terrorized look, his hand would go up over his face. It clearly was a painful thing  to him to face this reality. So I never brought it up again. Then I got tired of the lies and began to question again months later, caught him in some of these lies, called him on them. He reacted by withdrawing so much I broke up with him. He then blame me for it all. And I've not been painted white again. And I don't really want to be because once your white you can always revert to black at any moment and I don't wish to put myself through that again.

Theblack/white isnt maybe how you see it happening.

I was blacker than black on a few occasions. The white paint doesnt come in the form of... .  'im her hero again' or 'i am her saviour again'. I think once the black comes out for the 1st time, the next coat of white is never white.

I think the white coat comes in the form of them not being currently abusive, they have currently calmed down from their whirlwind. So in fact we are not white, it is them who are white again.

When they paint black, anyone within range could catch a glossy coat. and the same for white, when they painting white, anyone within range could recieve a coat.



I think ultimately Diana, as sad as this may sound to you... .  

People choose NC for 2 reason...

1. To control another persons actions. (NC not for themselves)

2. To heal (NC for themselves)

It truly sounds like she chose NC for herself and wishes not to return and as tough as that sounds, you will eventually do the same in terms of moving on.

It is a process with no time limits or schedules, it rolls at a pace you decide.

I do understand how much this hurts, the anxiety caused by such actions. I can so sympathise with where you are at right now.

I can promise you one thing, its DOES get better with time and effort.

Time you have plenty of.

Effort? keep putting the effort in.

Yes, he did but I do think it is quite rare that they do and especially the way he did. He has been on his knees many times begging my forgiveness and crying. But for long periods he would never apologize for anything. I just think it is a part of his cycles. Saying that I do think he sincerely felt an enormous amount of guilt and was able to deal with appropriately i.e. ask forgiveness.

Diana82, don't feel stupid, we have all regretted taking all the blame and apologizing for things we had no business apologizing for. I have cried and begged and pleaded with my bf not to leave me in the past. He was cold as stone, and not budging an inch. But I don't anymore. When we know better, we do better.

Mine asked for forgiveness when he came and returned my stuff.  He wasn't done with me at that point, I suspect.  Wanted to switch gears and still have me in his life as a friend but the intimate part had triggered him - ie he didn't want to be fully abandoned.  There's a thread about the BPD withdrawal from the sex part but still wanting to be in contact, btw.

Anyway, I said I didn't know.  But a few days later I called him and said I could forgive him.  He was so excited - "Let's go snowboarding!", etc.  He suggested getting together on Thanksgiving since he was going to be in town at gathering for that.  On the day, he never returned my messages and completely blew me off. When he accidently butt-dialed me on his way home, and hung up after he heard me saying "hello... .  hello?", and then said there was something wrong with his phone.  Uh huh... .    I've never talked to him since.  He went NC shortly thereafter and told me to "leave me be".  Huh?

So, asking for forgiveness and taking some responsibility could be as fleeting and unstable as anything else.  Are they missing you?  :)o they want something from you?  Then you are more likely to see this.  :)oes it really MEAN anything that you can count on?  Hmm... .   I know that cold stoney face so well... .   When it comes time for them to dole out some compassion for you when YOU ask for it, don't be surprised if you don't get any.

I can relate HardTruth, absolutely. And mine has done similar things to me in the past, just the other night actually. Asking me to go out, and then ditching me as I was ready to leave my house and just called to ask where to meet up. And many times he has asked forgiveness only as a means to get what he wants, calculated and callous, and even retracted a previous admission of guilt. Of course he has done all that on many occasions. Asking for him to take responsibility has never worked either, that's a trigger for him. But there have been times when he has sincerely been sorry for what he has done, where he not only was overcome with guilt and shame but also felt a lot of compassion for how it had affected me. This was after CT together for a few months. Doing something to make up for it though, that's a whole other story. He can't do it.

Mitti-  I'm so sorry to hear that.  That's so sad and hurtful.  It's so easy to have hope, and then it's such a betrayal to be let down again.  There was a point when my exBPD did take some responsibility for how he broke up with me, and how the way he did it hurt me immensely and unnecessarily, and I do believe he felt genuinely sorry for that.  I think he was genuinely ashamed of himself and how poorly he had acted after he was able to see it from my point of view.  He, unfortunately, couldn't stay there for very long and quickly got re-triggered again.  

He said something interesting, which was, "You know I didn't MEAN to hurt you.  It wasn't intentional."  as if that let him off the hook.  But even when he knew better, he couldn't help himself from hurting me again anyway.  And then when I asked him for the thing that would make it better - the phone call that he'd promised me - he said he wouldn't do it.  And that he was "truly sorry".  He wasn't truly sorry, of course.  He was just taking the easy way out and avoiding a situation that had become uncomfortable for him. 

Did you guys ever find your ex couldn’t handle you having ANYTHING to do with your other exes and didn’t like you even commenting about other people’s good looks?

Yet they still kept in touch with exes and freely commented on the ‘hotness’ factor of others?

One thing my ex did which also annoyed me during the relationship was talk about hot men excessively. This is strange for a lesbian. 

Sure, we all see aesthetic beauty in both sexes. But she took it to a different level of weird.

It wasn’t even in context and she’d point out hot guys in the street to me... say she was in a “trance” sometimes when looking at a good looking man and even looked at a photo of my ex boyfriend whom I dated before I came out as gay and said “Oh! I’d gay straight for HIM!”

Once at a party she openly said to her friend in front of me “Your boyfriend is so hot. I couldn’t stop staring. My bisexual side was obviously coming out!”

So inappropriate.  I asked her to stop and I remember instead of apologising, she made me feel like I was weird for finding this strange. She said “Oh... I do this around my friends! It’s just funny because I’m so obviously a lesbian!”

Anyway... although she stopped with this talk... in front of me... for some reason I still had a strong feeling she was going around talking about hot men when I wasn’t around... probably saying how she thinks her bisexual side is coming out etc. And for some reason I felt like she didn’t really see how inappropriate it was and was likely to be laughing about how I did-with her friends.

When we had the break up fight... I was super emotional and bringing up past examples of my ex’s inconsistencies and changeability. And I brought this up and said “you probably still even talk about men like that”.  At one point for some reason I even said “why are you trying to say you’re such a goodytooshooes?”

I know... this fight sounds weird... but it was all fuelled from suspicion over her character and deception. We even got on to the subject of how she wouldn’t stop talking about how hot she found a male actor.

And she then got even angrier and went off at me again saying “NOBODY HAS EVER CALLED ME DECEPTIVE MY WHOLE LIFE. IT'S BIZARRE. YOU’RE SAYING SOMETHING VERY CLEAR ABOUT MY CHARACTER”

Of course calling your partner “goodytooshooes” and then implying they are still doing stuff behind your back shows a clear lack of trust from me.

I guess I was hoping she would try to reassure me for ONCE.

I had felt I was constantly reassuring my ex over her insecurities. But she would never tolerate me feeling insecure.

In this case, I was confused over her inconsistencies and possible deception.

And she would not have a BAR of it!

Thanks for posting that, bentnotbroken!

I never knew of any suicide attempts from my ex (or she may have never told me).

But she did get easily snappy and defensive... and came across as very rude when she snapped.

Is this part of 'raging'?

It's not like my ex would just go off at me for no reason. She'd just be quick to snap loudly at you... even in a cafe... if you questioned her or she felt you were being critical.

Happiness> ego thing... So you think she liked the attention of this woman as backup? I think my ex may also have narcissistic qualities.

Would you say it was "deceptive" of my ex to not tell this other "friend" she was seeing me for 3 months? My ex even told me after the Thailand trip "it's so good I didn't end up meeting her because of the fight! She would have tried to jump me!"

So if she knew this friend of hers had sexual intentions ... .  

1. Why would she even consider meeting her? Even though they had a text war my ex was still prepared to meet up

2. Why wouldn't she tell this "friend" she's dating me? Of course the friend would think my ex was free to "jump"!

I must have been desperate at the time to put up with that

I have a feeling if my ex did want to reconnect she may be embarassed or feel awkward... I know I would! If I had changed my number, ignored them and acted petty etc... [/quote]
I understand your sentiment but I have never seen them truly embarrassed or feeling awkward. She will likely never feel embarrased as it would be some remorse/responsibility on her part. I am not a betting man but thats about as likely to happen as me winning the lottery. We wish but... .  

Diana - yes an ego trip for the attention.  From what I've learnt if BPD's feel they're not getting enough attention (despite what the truth may be), they will look to get attention from other sources.  It's almost to hurt us, though sometimes we know nothing about it, so won't get hurt, but I believe they gain some kind of pleasure out of it.

My ex often described herself as an "attention-whore"! Her words, not mine. I just assumed that she meant it when she said that is how she "used to be." Unfortunately, Leopards and most BPDs don't really change their spots despite what they say to keep you around.