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2 nights ago as we were lying in bed dBPDbf asked me if I was seeing anyone else. I reassured him that no, I wasn't and asked him why he was wondering. He said he feels like I've pulled away. I told him I understand, that it wasn't intentional, its just the tough time we've been going through.

I've been detaching, but probably not with enough love. I'm not sure if it's there? I do care about him and have love for him, but am I still in love?

Last night, I told him my T has been pushing me to go to an Al-Anon session(for his pot addiction) as my homework and how did he feel about that. As I expected, he didn't like it and to sum it up says that I am making such a big deal of it, I need to leave it to him, shut up and have some patience.

The rest of the conversation didn't go very well, and we are in another break-up cycle. He says I'm selfish because I'm not there for him unconditionally and I only want the good part of a relationship. The FOG is getting to me here. Maybe this is just too much change and resentment in a relationship, and not enough love.  I don't even feel upset... .  why?

I think the "are you seeing someone else?" phase is that.  Its a phase.  As you know a BPD is constantly in fear of losing the things that they love.

Those things always leave in the end.  I find it best to say... .  no way, and I love you... .  and drop it quickly without being invalidating. For me when he is feeling distant it is usually a change of his mood.  I call it "something has changed in the matrix."  Something isnt right, but he cant put his finger on it, so of course he will look to the things that mean most to him to worry about. If there is something wrong, you can bet he will pick up on that.  There are ways to explain whats bothering you while sounding validating at the same time.

I can understand why he wouldnt be happy to find out that his girlfriend is having to go to alanon for something he is doing. That would create terrible guilt.  To admit they have issues means they are bad because they only know black and white.  Bad people arent worth knowing.  He becomes worthless.  He gets angry and fights that feeling... .  RAGE begins.

I know. I understand that part. He feels like I don't love him unless he makes all these changes and he may be right. Does that mean I should let him go? If I can't love him unconditionally, or sit by and wait with a smile on my face and not express my feelings to him?

Because you are less enmeshed emotionally.

The Al-anon isnt something you are going to for him.  It is something you are going to for YOU.  Be careful how you say it to him or it will sound like something you are doing because of him... .  (a subtle difference, both from his perspective and as well as from your perspective).

It sounds like he might be insecure about whether you love 'him' or not.  Meaning, if you only love him if he makes all these changes, then you really arent loving him - you are loving him conditionally based on the potential of being something different than he really is.

He IS, what he is.  Can/do you love that?  (both the good and the bad).  Staying in a relationship means ACCEPTING both the things we like, as well as the things we dont like about our partner.

I think that once he understands that you accept him "as is" then things will begin change.  Do you accept him as is?  Sometimes that takes alot of making up and breaking up to finally grasp. Maybe all he wants is to be understood and accepted.  Is the fact that he smokes pot a deal breaker for you, or is it something your willing to accept if not compromise on?  Sometimes we project our values on them.  They can only be them. 

You can tell him anything you want, only make it about you and not him.  If you fear he is lying to you, say something like, I get sad sometimes because I feel that I might not be trusted as a partner who you can confide in when things go amiss.  You can trust me, and I will always be here for you. 

I understand that BUT, there are many of us here that say I do understand that this is a disease, so I am giving my partner a chance to improve themselves before I just ditch them and dump them on their ass.

My partner has made fairly dramatic changes over the past year, the verbal and emotional abuse has pretty much stopped and he is in DBT. He is still working on a pot addiction and it is a HUGE issue between us. He resents me for all the changes I expect. I get that. I couldn't love him for what he was then, and maybe it was all too much for us even today with the changes.

I’m not sure that I do. Maybe I’ve been lying to myself the whole time, telling myself that if he just fixes __ then I will be happy, instead of being honest with myself that maybe this person just isn’t right for me. There’s my codependence. I thought the only thing left that I truly needed changes in was the pot smoking. It is a deal breaker, not that he smokes pot, but that he is addicted to it. He says he wants to quit and will do it, but it’s on his timetable not mine. How long is that? Indefinite? In the beginning I thought I was doing the right thing by sticking by him through this and seeing if therapy and meds could make him and us happier. I would say that therapy and meds have positively affected both of our lives, but he resents me for it. So maybe it wasn’t such a good idea.

To your boyfriend, "unconditional love" = emotional enmeshment.  When he says "unconditional love" that's what he's thinking about, although probably not in those words.  

Emotional enmeshment is unhealthy for you and him.  The detaching "with love" part comes, at least somewhat, fromt the radical acceptance that Yetter talks about.  

All in all, it actually sounds like you are on the correct path here.  Remember, you are changingthings up, and he will react.  It would be nice if our partners understood and supported the changes we are making, but often its to opposite (at least at first).    :)

Agreed- I think there is a fine line between unconditional love/ accepting someone for who they are and enmeshment.

I agree that if you decide to stay you have to accept things, but I have only decided to stay so long as this is a healthy environment for me. I decided to try whole heartedly, but I don't know yet if us trying is enough to make either one of us happy. I have to be getting something out of this too, and most days he is so consumed with himself and pot that I'm not.

Fair enough.  We always have a choice.   :)

Indeed.  What makes you happy comes first.  What you can live with and be at peace with yourself.

Hi hon... .  I wanted to pick up on this part of the situation... .  if he feels that you have been detaching and he equates "unconditiional love = emotional emeshment" he will feel this and think that there MUST be some OTHER reason, other than him, that you have "pulled away". It think that it is partly their inability to accept RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR... .  as mine has painted me BLACK BLACK BLACK and out right told ME that he DOES NOT love me... .  I will not say the same to him but WHEN/IF he says that "you have withdrawn" to make it MY problem... .  I will just point to HIS WORDS... .  why should I trust and "feel close" to a man who says this to me... .  I don't and I won't pretend it either. Yes, I have detached and it is HEALTHY to detach from this behavior.


Of course, you are being selfish; we NEED to be selfish and since YOU are taking CARE of YOU, he does not like it; it is the detachment that "shows up" as "selfishness"... .  it has NOTHING to do with LOVE, it has to do with abuse and healing from abuse if you ask me... .  he is trying to make it YOUR fault that you don't love him or "feel love" for him... .  it is his.

They won't accept responsibility for their own words and behavior though... .  of course, ANY OTHER MAN would treat you better than he does and his insecurity tells him that since you are not "dependent" upon him that you must be with another man... .  too much that they can't comprehend.


Too much change for him? I think that they would use that an excuse to NOT face themselves and to DIVERT the attention (blame) from what he NEEDS TO DO to making it "your problem" that you are detacheed... .  HE is the who is not (able to) loving enough.  

Thanks, real lady. My head is spinning.

I just got into one of those text fights I swore I never would again. I said i'd be happy to talk at home, but I will not text fight all day. He accused me of "withdrawing like I always do" (aka timeout).

It was ugly. Tried to just stick to talking about my boundaries and ideals for my life, offered to write down what was really important to me. He told me my boundaries are a pain in the ass. He told me he changed (BPD behaviors coming out) because of me. Because of all the ___ I pushed on him, he told me it was my fault that he screamed and belittled me. He hasn't said that in months. And I'm the most selfish person he ever met. I validated that he had a right to get frustrated and irritated with me, but verbal abuse was his unacceptable behavior. Then put me down saying how horrible it would be if we'd had children. That one hurt and I said it back.

I know he's dysregulated. I know he's hurting. I know he has BPD. But I don't know if we can make this work. I don't think I care enough to keep trying. I'm indifferent.

Actually, it sounds like you did a terrific job.  Maybe he is just acting out because you have changed how you handle the confrontations.

Seriously, dont let any of those things he said get to you.  I have heard them a thousand times before myself.  You know your a great person, you dont need him to validate that. Go enjoy yourself and let the fire die down.  You have time to decide what you want to do with this situation.  It doesnt have to be settled tonite.  

Thank you 

Of course he doesn't like (or respect) your boundaries.  When he gets verbally abusive, you can just end the conversation and take a time out.  You can validate later. See how it escalated here?  You got drawn in. He doesn't know how to draw the line and know when to break it off. He'll climb higher and higher. . . . You have to take the lead to end these conversations.   Happens to the best of us.   :)

As far as the indifference to the relationship, take some time to think about what you want.  We all can sympathize with the frustration, and fatigue.

Do you get accused of being weak when you do this? He says I can't handle anything when I take a break, that I'm withdrawing. Or the "I don't talk like you, get over it!" I know I still need to do it.

The point being, there will be all kinds of accusations.  Your goal is not to get sucked in by them.  To let him say whatever (including accusations), but to disengage.

Some people have found it very helpful to say that they will come back to it at a later time, but that right this moment they need a timeout.  This sends the message that you arent abandoning them and that there will be a place for the topic once the emotions calm and the two of you can discuss it more rationally.

Did you read the High Conflict Couple?  This is all about this type of dynamic.

Again, dont get sucked in.  Let it roll off.  Hold your tongue and go do something that will calm you and allow you to reset.

You know, Peace4ME, we get accused of EVERYTHING... .  this is really the least of them, at least for me, being accused of being weak does NOT mean that you are. Walking away is harder than staying and being sucked into a dysregulated argument... .  really


When this has happened to me, I AGREED WITH HIM and even said to him "I NEED TIME ALONE FOR ME... .  this isn't about YOU, it is about ME and I am DONE talking NOW and I am leaving for a while", etc.


In verbal abuse, him saying this to you is gaslighting and DISCOUNTING what you have said. We cannot convince them that our feelings are valid so we must VALIDATE OURSELVES sometimes. Again, when we agree with them, it does NOT mean that they are right and we are wrong... .  it means that "they may see it that way and we do not"... .  end the conversation and let go of JADE and set some healthy boundaries for you. He will continue to push back until you give in... .  don't give in.