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I'm going on a 9 day vacation tomorrow.  I planned it for January because I thought maybe a break from my familiar surroundings would help me.  I'm going alone.  I have friends where I'm going, but I'm afraid to call them up because I'll be gloomy and occupied with thoughts of the ex.

My T says he's worried about my isolation.  I avoid everyone I know because they all trigger me.  I'm trying to be 100% self sustaining.  No favors, no help from family or friends.  This is the first time in my life I've truly lived alone, at 34, even though I moved out "on my own" at 18 I've always had roommates.  I thought it would be beneficial to have that, especially since I've got no girlfriend now.

I have a bitterness towards women, particularly if I'm attracted to them.  I think either they will f--k me over, we will be incompatible, or I'm just not loveable.

So, on this trip I'm going on, I'm debating on whether or not to contact any of my friends or just do a solo journey.  Everything is a reminder of the ex.  If I visit a friend, I'll remember how last time we were together, ex was there.  And there will be a void felt.

I see my ex about once a week on average.  Just coincidental encounters.  She never sees me as she has tunnel vision.  We pass by each other on the street.  Or she walks in the crosswalk while I'm at a red light.  Sometimes I even see her in the most unlikely places -- like up on a mountain road.  I'm not looking for her.  I'm not trying to be around her.  Yes, I still love her.  But I also feel panic when I see her.  I've never had a panic attack but I feel like I get close when I see her.

She texts me about every two months.  The most recent time was a couple weeks ago.  But it's never anything direct about the relationship -- or even about "us" at all.  It's always an off-topic, impersonal text.  I haven't responded to her since the week of Thanksgiving when I gave her a lashing (which I posted here), told her to read a book about BPD, etc.  I have her blocked but my phone still notified me when I got a blocked text, so I disable the notifications.

A lot of the posts I can relate to on here recently.  The "guy" or "man cave" posts which have been on here.  She was absolutely gorgeous, brilliant, sexually compatible, etc.  and she will do just fine finding someone else.  Like another poster stated, she was almost too good for me in those regards, but I never felt intimidated by it or that I didn't deserve her.  But I feel that way now and that I just didn't have what it took to keep her happy.  Also, as the other poster stated, she has a line of guys waiting for her to be available.  I wouldn't be surprised if she's had sex with a different guy every day since we broke up.  Hell, maybe she even was when we were together.  So, I envy her I suppose.  I haven't had sex since the last time I did with her (about 6 or 7 months ago) nor been on a date -- nothing.  I don't NEED it right now, although it would feel nice.

So, I wish I was BPD.  I wish I could be my ex.  I could mow through the world and get everything I want.  I could be charming and seducing to all and have a bunch of marionettes.  I wish I could be ruthless but not know it because it's just how I am.  But instead I'm this sensitive b-tch who is emotionally curled in the fetal position while the rest of the world is f--king like rabbits and having drunken parties.

She is doing great.  Yeah, tell me about her inner shame and how she feels disgusting inside.  I'm not sure I even believe it anymore.  Because if she did, she would also have a conscience and empathy and would at least say "I'm so sorry I don't know how to be intimate with you or sustain a relationship but it's a problem I have... .  "  or something.  Instead, it's like a mafian who caps a guy in the head because he offended him once.  No guilt, no remorse, no sense of dignity for another.  Is that because the mafian has toxic shame?  Or does he just not give a f--k because everyone is disposable?  As much as I've been discarded by almost every women I've been with, which isn't all that many (I am also disappointed about that as well since everyone in the world has had more partners than I), I have no trust for them anymore.  I want to be the one who just dumps everyone like an empty toilet paper roll.  But, no one really wants me to begin with.

So, yeah, I'm being a whiny little victim crybaby.  But I'm just saying what I feel.

No is my answer, in case anyone asks the question, no, this is not the kind of relationship I wanted.  I wanted 95% of it.  The part where I felt love, affection, closeness, security.  The part where it was in her words "we'll make it thru anything because we know how to talk and work it out" followed by a smile and a hug.  Not the part where I wondered if she was cheating on me or leaving me or getting bored or dissociating from my existence.  

I still hang on to some of the false beliefs.  She'll be back, she'll see the light, love conquers, etc.  Yeah, I've read them a bunch of times.  Maybe I'm a stubborn f--k.  Maybe I'm delusional.

I was actually doing OK for a couple days there, until I saw her again.  Until I went to therapy and opened it all up again.  Until I looked at a picture of her for 2 seconds and it reminded me of when we went to get her passport so we could go to Europe this summer.

Anyway, I go away tomorrow.  And I debate whether or not to stay alone.  I guess I'll just feel it out.  Or should I be pushing myself out of my comfort zone?

Now tell me how I have 400+ posts and should be all better now.

hon - I am at 5,000 posts and I am not all better 

So, I cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell you what I have done these last couple years. Let myself be where I need to be - accept that I will be done being sad when I am.  I have long stretches of happiness these days, but I also still have my moments that I miss my ex - I did love her and I did tie my future to her.

I remember that feeling - I know what to do and I know about BPD, I "know"... .  eventually I had to be ok letting myself just feel bad until it changes.

Go on your vacation, call your friends - it is going to hurt whether you do or don't.  Rarely have I regretted calling... .  there is a balance between isolating and giving ourselves space and time ... .  you will find the balance.

If you have not done a gratitude list - start one.  I would write 5 things to be grateful for daily. Let me tell you, it is hard at first - there were days that I was grateful that I slept  - honestly, it was that pathetic at times. 

Hear me, I still have days that I struggle - but I also have really good moments again too... .  this is a process for healing way more than this breakup and it does take time.

You are really doing ok ... .  even if it feels crappy right now.

Peace,

SB

Go alone.  I read a book called "Stop Obsessing."  One trick in particular helped - when you start thinking of her, procrastinate and put off the thought for several hours.  Each time do the same thing.  Remembering her is your subconscious' way of not letting go.  Thought that should be going to work or family or volunteer work is being redirected to your own internal concerns.  You need to break this cycle and let the memories fade.  Actively work to "forget to remember."   Its the only way.

Struggli, perhaps you could spend at least part of your vacation reaching out to friends, reclaiming those places you once shared for yourself and your new future now. Make new memories there. Going on a solo trip sounds great, but in some ways it also sounds like you'll be keeping yourself isolated while on the go. Too much alone-time can = Staying stuck. Reach out to friends in the earlier days of your trip. If it doesn't feel right, you'll still have the rest of the time to be alone. If it's more interesting and fun, it will help you take your mind off things. Real friends will understand you being down about a breakup, and will be there for you as you're helping pick yourself up from it, too.

Hi Struggli,

Certainly not going to say you should be better now.    None of us would probably say that.    All of us on this board have been in a dysfunctional relationship with a BPD patner and have the scars and pain that go with that.

I just went to a big second hand book sale and saw all these motivational books, books on relationships and even one on co-dependency.   Did I feel motivated to pick any of them up.  Hell no.

I caved in yet again to my fears and contacted my ex again yesterday asking for the honesty and closure that I feel I needed and which she is withholding from me.   She knows I hurt.  She knows that I am struggling to leave all the past behind me without that... .  and she simply doesn't care.   Her reaction is to run to friends, work colleagues and others saying "look at what this guy is doing"... .  he is a nutter.

No recognition of how the cheating that went on in our relationship damaged my self esteem, trust and has almost driven me to the point of checking into a hospital or worse.   

I have great admiration for the people on this board who manage to put things behind them and move on.

My ex also had a big number of admirers and guys waiting for her to be available.  She even told me that the guy she is now engaged to had asked her out.   Her comment "he is absolutely not my type".

In my view this behaviour is driven by two things... .  the BPD side which is their inability to confront their core shame and the NPD side which is treating people as disposable and needing the constant reassurance.    There was definitely both in my ex.   The former stemmed from her childhood sexual abuse I am sure... the latter God knows where.

I went on a trip last year by myself although met up with a group when there.    I am not a particularly religious person (was brought up a Catholic but do not go to chuch).   I went to Jerusalem.   I sat in the middle of the Church of the Holy Sepulchure and said "here I am God... .  I've come to you... .  Go your hardest."  I felt bitter that my dreams of having a happy life with my ex were shattered, that my hopes for a family were killed.   

I made the mistake of looking at her facebook page about a month ago and there were numerous pictures of her draped over her fiancee with a huge smile on her face.

I am thankful if I get out the door in the morning, manage to deal with some of the work (I have a high pressure job which requires my mind to be focused... a constant struggle), and look forward to going home and listening to news or current affairs shows on the radio and getting through the day.

There are days when I have fleeting moments of peace but I have this constant nagging question in my mind "when did she start her relationship with my replacement".  Was it before she said I was part of her family, was it when she told me she had her future husband in her, was it when she wore my engagement ring gripped me by the hand, stared into my eyes and said "I love you so much", was it when she spoke about which of our respective qualities our kids would have, was it before she told my friend how much she had to make up for (and would spend her life making up for) with the previous lies.    Was it before she said that when she bought her flat she needed me to move in with her for the first month to make her feel safe.   

If there is a God, I would say to him, "mate, at least give her the courage to be honest with me about when it started.  Help her understand how much I am tormented by not knowing the truth".

Don't have the answers for you struggli, still searching for them for myself but I know just what the feelings that you describe are like.   I have lived them 24/7/392 (392 being the number of days since she broke my heart).

In 4 weeks I finally get to see a psychologist... .  One thing I have learnt is that there seems not to be any GFC (Global Financial Crisis) in the mental health field.

I hope you can enjoy your holiday as best as you can and you get to enjoy some new experiences without thinking of your ex.   God knows I couldn't but maybe you will find some more inner peace than I have.

struggli... .  when we were first together one of my BPD (w/NPD traits) exs said "you should be like me... .  I can walk through life and not give a sh"t about anyone... .  it's amazing... .  "... .  red-flag  red-flag ... .  this was a few days before I witnessed her crying in a ball on the floor for two hours after we had a minor disagreement   ... .  red-flag

You wrote "I wish I could be my ex"... .  I think if you walked in her shoes for a few hours... .  you truly wouldn't want that for yourself... .  it's a miserable, chaotic existence.  Sure they can split us blacker than black... .  but would you really want to have the ability/necessity to dissociate?... .  it's a temporary bandage on a gaping permanent wound.


really... .  I had tears in my eyes as I read your post.  It took me back to a time when I was doing hour to hour... .  day to day... .  trust me... .  things will improve  

We here are all working through the pain... .  putting in the hard work for personal development... .  

They are seeking out new hosts... .  changing yet another bandage on a permanent bleeding wound.

Thanks Newton.   I just shouldn't be doing that hour by hour stuff any more.

My pain is equal to the commitment, understanding and compassion that I gave her.   That was every part of my emotional energy, which is why my pain now saps what emotional energy I still have.

I just don't understand how these people suck the marrow out of your bones, the blood out of your veins, your heart from your chest and then giggle as they romp off leaving you to piece back together what's left.   

Exactly, Really.  Exactly.   :'(

Hey Struggli,

I just wrote a really long response to all of this, but I decided to erase it.  I realized that everything I was trying to say was pretty much the same painful thing you'd already written here so clearly.

I don't have any wisdom to offer on this one (at least not any wisdom with optimism... .  not at the moment), but I just wanted to say that I completely understand what you are saying and what you are feeling.



We keep reminding ourselves (or being reminded) that she will always end up losing in her own twisted nightmarish and dark world.




But we lose in this real world, it seems.  Big time.


And it doesn't feel fair.  Not at all.

I know.

I still find myself thinking about my UpwBPDexB far too much, but I figure it is simply my brain trying to make sense of it all. These relationships are intense and take 200% of us. What I don't do is to allow those thoughts to prevent me from getting out and doing stuff. So instead of the thinking being all the time, it is only in-between real life. It gets less, and less.

Don't envy her, she is skimming through life without feeling it. Congratulate yourself for being a great guy who bravely sets his boundaries, whilst feeling every storm and rainbow of life.

I hope you enjoy your trip, that you breathe deeply, and sleep soundly in peace :)

I'd *definitely* get in touch with the friends and try to go out with them.

If you are out, you will meet "friends of friends" who will not at all remind you of the ex and may even provide a nice distraction from your thoughts.

I went on a date with someone pretty soon after my problems.  Her man put an end to that (they were just getting started), but I had the most fantastic time.  Nearly forgot about the exBPDW for a while. 

Another thing... .  you are a fantastic writer.  Reading your post was very engaging. 

I've read all your replies, taken them in, started to write a reply in a word document on my laptop.  However, I'm on my phone right now and, after having spent most of the day with a friend, am alone in a restaurant with thoughts of the ex.

Within a few hours of my original post, just before I left for my flight, I notice I have a missed call.  It's from her.  2am.  So, I open up the blocked messages folder.  Two messages from her.

At this moment right now, in my solitude, it eats at me.  Am I being cruel in not responding? Is it just another hook? Am I messing up a window for reconciliation with the one I love?

I'm not reading much into the messages, but they are this:

Are you ok? I got a feeling about you. I wanted to make sure.

And:

Struggli! I know you have your phone. say something!


Should I just ignore this?

Thanks for all your thoughtfulness and replies.

Struggli -

Wow, I am repeatedly amazed at how the pwBPD contacts the nons at critical moments. 

Regarding a response, it is probably a good thing that my exbfPBD is a quiet borderline, although it certainly doesn't feel that way now.  I was raised to have manners and have lost a parent.  I simply cannot ignore someone who is trying to reach me.  My ex is apparently no longer aware I existed, so it's a non-issue.

Struggli - how about a response along the lines of "Yes?"  Or "AutoReply:  I am on vacation and will have limited access to my phone but will check messages upon my return.  Thank you."

Then you might get a lot of information but without the need to actually respond.  It will bide you some time to think about your life and the direction in which you want to move.

Thinking of you and hoping you find some peace and room for real progress on this awful journey.  Reaching out my hand to help you up when you fall... .  

Cookie folie

I did not mean to imply that those who can maintain no contact despite repeated efforts were not raised to have manners or do not know what it is like to lose a parent.  I apologize - it reads that way.  I guess I am just weak!   

Struggli,

I have been going through the the same dilemma for months.  My exBPDgf has stated very clearly in emails, phone calls, and texts that she doesn't want any contact.  Yet, she has contacted me many times since then for the past several months.  I responded to all of them initially, but learned that she was simply trying to use me.  What my T has helped me understand is that often times, a pwBPD doesn't need a dialogue, they simply want to know that we still love them.  My ex sent me a simple text a couple of weeks ago, telling me that she missed me.  I replied with the same message.  No response and nothing since then.  She has also contacted me when she needed help.  Not once has she contacted me with a genuine desire to see me or reconcile.  I certainly cannot speak for your situation, but in my case, I believe the contacts were always about her and not me.  She wants to know that I'm still in love with her and desire her.  The sad part is... .  I do... .  

Keep moving forward.  You're not alone!

My BPDex moved on with my replacement, I hurt like hell, he painted me darkest black, I hurt like hell. He keeps saying final goodbyes, but he keeps resurfacing, even after me saying no more, and that it messes me up too much. It is my ex putting his need to gain info/affirmation that I still care, over my need for space to heal. I have tried being polite (not that he has ever worried about politeness) but now it's NC all the way for me.

Your situation may be different, but my guess it is 99.9% about her, and her maintaining a connection that may prove useful to her down the line. It is also likely to not help you move on. Take care, but put your needs firmly first.

I can only tell you where I am at.  I have concluded that neither me or my (separated) wife are capable of going over and resolving issues - not in the context of the relationship.  If she ever gets therapy and goes into full or partial remission, we would both be at a fair point to resolve conflicts.  I do not want to go over anything now with her because I finally have accepted internalized that any such attempt will result in badness.

Closure?  Sigh.  The closure I have starts from radically accepting her disorder.  Once I was able to also radically forgive even outrageous wrongs, this combined with the radical acceptance so that I have my 'closure'.  It is more like peace in my mind and my spirit.  She was in my life in a fantastic, and unspeakably horrible, and intense and ever-present way.  Therefore, she will always remain a part of me.

Everything feels odd now.  Sure, she has a lack of a cohesive or complete identity.  I lost my identity in her disorder as well.  I still struggle.  Lack of concentration.  Lack of productivity.  There is so much damage I caused to others because of my behaviors while caught up in the relationship.  My identity included caring very much for people and behaving in a kind and receptive way, my identity included working hard, creatively and productively, my identity included being a loving husband - and being loved.  I have a long way to go, but I have come a long way as well.  I am regaining dignity, a few relationships with my family are starting to improve, I have strong relationships with a few - stronger than ever before, I am coping with my own guilt, I am becoming less isolated - little by little.

Keep seeking answers - know that the answers you get from her are likely to be painful and not the answers you were looking for.  If she is like my confused and ill wife, her reality is filtered, mixed up, through and with her emotions, and she has no emotional skin.  When you touch on anything she might feel guilty about, she will tend to deflect and project onto you.  Avoiding emotional pain is a powerful driving force for her.

Keep getting together with people you care for and that care for you.  Sometimes it is more difficult than others.  Sometimes it is OK to be alone.

It is true - you really do need to do things for you.  You won't always be able to during recovery, not every day, anyway.  Keep on, and you will improve, you will feel better, gain peace.  Keep on, and eventually you will become a better man than you ever were.

The message that says: answer your phone! Seems to say:  stop ignoring me, I know you're ok, but want to initiate a dialogue to see if you are still there for me.

Each time we have recycled, it started with very indirect messages like this.  As much as I love her, she most likely hasn't changed.  If we got back together, she'd still be in need of space for her male groupies, still be sneaky with her phone, still be adverse to intimacy, still act inappropriately with other men, still be confused about her feelings for me, still deny therapy, still be erratic... .  

I wish it weren't true.

It is a very difficult thing to Not respond, but they are just bread crumbs aren't they?  Another example of minimal effort?  I mean, I won't get a message that says:  I love you dearly, I've made a mistake, I WILL do whatever it takes to make this work on matter how difficult it may be at times... .    I won't get that will I? 

I still want her, but it seems she wants me to do all the reaching out and bending of boundaries.

Struggli - if this was your best friend writing this - what would you tell him?

Exactly!  You will not get the normal message a normal person would sent under those circumstances.  You will get the BPD message, which says, "hey, why don't you try to get me again?"

sb- I don't know.  I've lost faith in my ability to make judgments about relationship stuff anymore.

sully - i feel like ignoring it is passing up an opportunity, closing the door even more.  that is difficult.

this isn't about faith - it is about logic - seriously... .  if your best friend told you YOUR story - what would you say to him?

I guess I'd say "it sounds familiar, and it's up to (you) if you want to go for another round."  And probably "It will all be the same again."

That is *very* difficult, but if you are going to "detach from the wounds of a failed BPD relationship", it is something that has to be done.

Unless you are not ready to detach.  I'm not some strong guy either.  I hope when the new life mine created falls apart, she doesn't start contacting me to save her (again), but she may.  I hope I have the strength to just keep looking.  

I mean think about this:  What opportunity are you looking not to pass up?  Are you happy with everything that's happened between you two in your relationship?  

Recently, I wrote a 2 1/2 page letter to my BPD ex wife's new guy to warn him.  I wish someone would have done that for me, so I did it.  After I was done summarizing what he will be going through, how my ex wife's meds are going to wear out soon (she is now on max Zoloft to control rage events) and how she has done this stuff in the past before me, I started to realize something.  Why would I want that back?

Try that as an exercise.  Write to her new guy (if any) and warn him of what's to come, citing examples from your own relationship.  You don't need to send it (I did), but after you write it, you may see things differently.  

RealSully, I would be interested to hear how that was received--if you heard back, or if your ex reacted, etc.

Struggli, I hear, feel, and understand your frustration and pain.  I believe your quote above is very close to the truth of the matter.  It's likely that she will continue to contact you, maybe indefinitely, at some low level, where she checks in... then checks out.  It's probably not personal on her part.  The reality is that emotionally, if she is untreated BPD, she is incapable of having deeper intimacy/relationship with you.  She just can't do it, not w/o serious treatment.  You can love her, but let her go.

I don't hink i can give a whole lot of advice here but the entire openings post screams to me one thing my shrink told me in regards of 'things/situations/objects/whatever' reminds you of your BPD.

Crush them with new memories! Make new memories. Go there with a friend, have a beer, enjoy the sunset and realize that crazy (BPD) was no good for you.

Actually, i'm doing the exact same thing! I'm going the last place where I went on holiday with my gf w BPD! But this time, i'm going with one of my best pals! Same place!

that is true... .  it is up to you if you want to go for another round - is that what you want?

HarmKrakow, this is such great advice!


I have done this a few times and it is truly brilliant, because you really do realise how stunted and anxious the original BPD moments were. Go with someone else non BPD and the calm, freedom, gratitude, easy-laughter is a shockingly-good revelation.

I still pinch myself at how straightforward and calm my life is again now, because I had become so normalised to expect/endure chaos, manipulation and harassment at every turn.

How do you enjoy life? Well it starts with some actual real-life living, and the enjoyment will naturally follow.  :)

It's still in transit... .    :)

But, it doesn't matter to me how it is received.  He will read it (because it's out of the ordinary) and he will either throw it away or keep it.  I mentioned at the end that he may just throw it away, but someday, when everything goes wrong, he will think back to the letter.

It also relates to 'real life' ... REliving. Reliving the past sometimes isn't nice, it will hurt but it does work to get back to the 'core' of the trauma. We NON BPDers have had it with drama, we want a bit of stability and calmness right now. That is what I look for.

If you think about it, why would you not go to a specific place because your BPDer went there to and she promised you false hopes and believes. Well, by not going there you are only building up a wall for yourself. You think the BPDer cares one bit that you are not going there? No of course not. But we block ourselves and attach these     ed up emotions to something which reminds us of the BPDer in question. That is SUCH bollocks. And therefore, smash it ... smash it :) And make new memories.

Well, I broke my silence after 2 months and contacted her.  Curiosity, weakness, whatever.

I simply said: I'm fine.

She responded with: OK

It's sort of what I expected.  I sort of regret it.  It's sort of neutral.  It confirms a lack of concern about me.  I just watched an episode of Fresh Prince where Will's Dad comes back after 14 years since abandoning his son.  Then he makes all these promises but bails again.  It struck a chord.  It was familiar and sad and reminded me of the ex.  And even though the dad looks like a jerk off, I started wondering "What about his FOO made him like that?" 

Will was ready to accept the reasons for abandonment and forgive his dad, but he got burned again.  I know it's just a show but perhaps a lesson in people not changing.

I guess she was just checking in on me.  Yeah, I'm kind of disappointed.  A "I miss you" response would've felt good but it'd just be false hope anyway I suppose.

She's a f--king idiot for giving up on this relationship. 

She sabotaged something good.

 

All I needed from mine was the reassurance that if we fought, it was OK for me to leave for a little while to collect myself and let things cool down.  He forbade it.  Said it made him "fear abandonment" too much. 

Self-fulfilling prophecy.  My bar was pretty low for relationships--I could have put up with a great deal.  But everything I put up with seemed to just inspire him to treat me worse. 

They are very pitiable people.

Honestly, I had my own abandonment fears around stuff like that.

At one point the ex said she needed space and I got scared... .  

It seemed fishy as it was sudden.  I had remembered where her ex lived and drove by and saw her car there.  Basically she left me without saying so.  Every time thereafter (when we got back together), when she needed space I remembered that.

And another time she said she needed space and I found her hanging with all her guy friends at the bar.  I wasn't looking for her -- I assumed she was home reading a book or something similar.  So I go up to her and say hi and she dismisses me while her guy friends watch.  Ouch.

Maybe there's rational and irrational abandonment fear.

This breakup doesn't feel right.  It just doesn't. 

And since I don't know if she is BPD, I don't know if she is following a BPD script.  So maybe I've projected BPD and made assumptions about it all and hastily ended a relationship that could have grown.  Knee-jerk reactions.  Etc.

I just don't know.

I don't think she does either.

I read some of your posts and I think you are in denial. I've read your opening post as well. You feel like you can be her savior but she doesn't want to be saved by you. The clear signs of push/pull in your r/s adds up to that.  She (seems) addicted to drama, you don't. You miss the idealization phase where you were put up a pedestal and now want to get back on that but will never reach that again. Why continue the torture?


The good side of her was a mirror image of you, she filled in the holes in your body to make you feel king of the world. Its the way it goes. The good her was purely a phase in the r/s which brushed your ego. The distant/uncanning her isn't the real her either, it's purely what her illness triggers her to do so...

Don't get me wrong. I'm currently facing the exact same situation. In a r/s with a BPD gf however get treated like ~, want to rescue her and feel I can give her so much but she can't be bothered and becomes increasingly distant. I can't let go and I don't understand why she rather stays on her own than to be with me ... as I only want to give...

Struggli,

You mentioned that you're aware of your abandonment fears.  That's a good place to start, imho.  The hardest part of all of this for me is shifting the focus away from her on onto me. 

Like you, my ex requested space on multiple occasions, and one of the last times I asked her if she had been talking to another guy, and she said yes.  I ended it right there.  Then I recycled with her.  Is this what I want in a relationship?  No. 

I tried setting boundaries and discussing concerns/problems many times, and change might be evident for a few days, but that was usually it.  She finally told me she liked the way her life was and wanted to do it her way.  What I heard was, I don't want to change anything. 

I started to lose trust in her, and that's when serious doubts came into play for me.  I never was 100% sure about wanting to marry her, although I thought about it a lot and we talked about it, looked at houses, etc.  I bought an engagement ring towards the end, but never showed it to her or gave it to her.  I've since returned it.  I knew something wasn't right, but I kept that hope. 

Most of us on here seem be fixers.  We hold on to the idea that if we just tweak it a certain way, then all will be well.  I cannot fix someone who has no desire to be fixed!  I can only change myself.  And I'm realizing now that I'm probably not the best person to be in her life right now because I'm not healthy or strong enough to take on the role of emotional caretaker.  And, to be honest, I probably would tire of that role quickly even if I were healthy enough. 

I want to be with someone who also wants to work on themselves, and hopefully with someone who is able to give back to me on a deep emotional level.  Any time I tried to resolve conflict with her that contained strong emotional undertones, she would run.  Nothing ever seemed to get resolved.  To me, I don't see how any relationship can function in a healthy manner over time like that.  Even if your exgf doesn't have BPD, she has some serious issues from what you've written, and she doesn't seem to want to change her lifestyle.  You don't have the power to change her life.  I relate a lot to what you post, and I appreciate your honesty.

Awesome post! :) Read it many times. Thank you :) I also did a similar thing in regards of the engagement ring. She never saw it.

Thanks!   :)

It's sad about the engagement rings, but I have a strong feeling we made the right move.

Struggli--when I asked for time to cool down, I meant "leave the room and go for a ten minute walk."  He would not let me physically leave the space he was in.  Sometimes he took my phone away from me.  When I would feel that "flight or fight" panic and try to just get some physical space between us, he would refuse and keep pushing, sometimes punching walls and on three occasions physically choking me.  I would start to get terrified when he would rage, and all I wanted was a little time away for him to calm down.  He said he couldn't do that for "fear of abandonment."

Of course, when he "kicked me out" of the house we lived in for which he was paying not a dime for hours on end, I had better do what he wanted.  It was all about manipulating me and being in control of the situation.  If he let me out of his sight, he couldn't properly terrorize me into compliance, which--at that moment--was what he wanted.

I wasn't talking about taking a few days off and not seeing each other. 

I've read all your replies many times, but this feeling still remains... .  

Do I keep NC despite this squirming feeling of wanting to jump out of my body?  I almost texted her this morning: "I think it's incredibly f--ked up how you walked out of this relationship as if nothing ever existed between us" or something to that effect.

I feel like she committed a crime and walked away with no consequence.  And occasionally I think about all the money I loaned her that she said she would repay this month which ends today.

I think about sending her a "Where's my money? Today's the day" message as well.

But then I think about her saying one time "Maybe I should just become an escort so I can make some money" with a big smile on her face.  I told her it made me want to vomit to hear her say that and she got serious and said "me too."

It's hard to turn my back on injustice.

She dissociates, completely removes herself from any attachment while I feel like throwing a chair through a window. 

the only way through this feeling is to go through it.  The other option is to contact her and start the process again later - I wish I could tell you there was a short cut but there is not.

You text her - then what... .  there is absolutely NO response from her that will make you feel better.

Struggli - there is nothing fair or right about this situation... .  but NOBODY is guaranteed a life that is fair or right.  I honestly wish life was fair - it just isn't.

Go outside and run or walk or swim - go get all this anxiety out... .  do it until you cannot do it any longer.  Punch a pillow - let the anxiety run it's course - it is the only way... .  contacting her only starts this process over.

In the book, Road Less Traveled - the first line is... .  life is difficult



you and I both know the money is not the issue - you are hurt... .  anger is a mask for hurt. 

It does hurt... like hell.  And I agree with SB in that life is not always fair.  I do believe that we all eventually end up getting back what we put out there, but it might not be in the way we want it or think we deserve it. 

Your ex is probably mentally ill.  There's no rationalizing that.  However, your anger is real, and you probably were used.  I have screamed, thrown things, and punched things in private to try and get some of my anger out.  Usually, after that the hurt will surface that SB mentioned, and I will cry. 

I need to feel the anger and, more importantly, the sadness.  I do not like feeling sadness, and I usually go to great lengths to avoid it.  But I think that's where the real healing is.  It's good to be mad that she treated you unfairly.  It's also good to be sad because she broke your heart.  There's no easy way around it.  I'm right there with you.

I also know she gets a several thousand dollar bonus in January.  Yes, I am hurt and not trying to hide that but perhaps it would add some feeling of 'right' were I to at least recover something financially.

All the images in my head are of her charming people, of rich good looking men treating her like a princess and so on, while she bears no responsibility for anything.  I am just a pathetic weakling who can't move on to her.

So I shouldn't mention the money?  It feels martyr-like to let it go.  Is it giving her more power if i inquire?  A 5k dollar, heartbreaking lesson?

I chose to go back and reconnect several times after periods of no contact.  That's up to you.  It takes what it takes.  Overall, I mostly got more of the same, but the pain actually got worse. 

It wouldn't be wrong to ask for the money, but some would suggest that it's not worth it if you're committed to NC at this point.  There's really no right or wrong way to do this in my opinion.  I believe all the contact I've had with her has been necessary.  And I may talk to her again, or I may never talk to her again.  Today I do not want to talk to her, and I am working on healing myself.  Do you believe in a higher power?  If so, pray about it.  If not, that's ok, too.  Good luck.

Mate, first of all if my previous comment might have been a bit rude but we are only hear to help each other.

I am in the same boat as you. Completely. I feel being cheated on without her taking any of the responsibility and leaving (us) in the sh!t. Where is the money? How the fudge could you walk away out of this? It has made me angry that I wanted to throw stuff out the window but also cry like a little baby.

And you all do ... is ... some sort of way, should i contact? And nothing helps ... it just makes it worse ...

I asked her when she would be repaying me.  She responded that she was broke and starving with a screen shot of her account balance.

Then she followed up by saying, 'but here's this' with another Facebook style picture attachment of our shared interest.

So, I'm sort of insulted and angry.  And hurt.  And I want to shake her so to speak, slap some sense into her via a text message.  How do I fight this feeling?  Or do I give into the urge and just do it?  Ask her to stop contacting me?   I want to express that I just don't get her seemingly dissociated experience from something that seemed so deep.  Lost, anxious, restless... .  

I guess I want her to see the light... .  

I've been going through all of this, too.  The final line struck me, though, because I realized as reading it that the notion that I could make my ex "see the light" is no longer with me.

I engaged with my ex a fair number of times throughout this detachment process - primarily because we had to go through a divorce, and we are still co-parenting (which means we still have to interact with one another, which leads to the exacerbation of all the negative emotions).  I gave into my temptations to "slap some sense into her" (via messages) a few times.  All such efforts fell upon deaf ears, of course, but they did help me to really internalize and understand the futility of the attempt.  I used to wonder about what more I could have done and said... .  but I don't wonder that anymore.  I tried.  I tried my best.  It doesn't work.

These efforts are emotionally exhausting, and eventually would lead me to my lowest depths when facing the extent of their failure.  Moreover, they generated openings and pathways for me to be hurt by her again.

Assume that texting her will result in the worst possible outcome... .  would it still then be worth it?  It very well might still be of value, for no reason other than to help you alleviate the feeling that you need to do it.

But if any part of you is expecting her to participate in all of this in a way that is satisfying to you, then I feel like I need to remind you that that outcome is extremely unlikely.  Whatever choice you make, do it because you are happy with the choice you are making, and not because of what you are hoping may come of it.

As I just posted on another thread, BPD is not a condition of ignorance. My BPDex was acutely aware that there was something very wrong with her brain. No amount of reasoning with her, begging, pleading, powerpoint presentations, etc. was going to give her a moment of clarity that she so desperately needed.

BPD is a very serious mental illness. Most BPDs do not get well. They continue to leave a path of destruction behind them for many years, if not an entire lifetime. My Ex is at least partly responsible for the death of her husband. She never spent a day in jail. She probably never will. Contact with her only brings pain and destruction to anyone who gets close. She is almost like an emotional cancer. The facade that I thought I loved was never real. I fell in love with a ghost. The lying, abusive, manipulative thief is the real her.

If you really want the 5K back, file a small claims case against her. You could probably win pretty easily, if she has already acknowledged the debt in a provable way. If you want to stay NC, have a lawyer send a demand letter with a threat to sue if she doesn't pay by a certain date. Follow through with the suit.

You fell in love with a lie. Accept that, heal, and move on.

I had the EXACT same feelings.  I was told (by mine) that she met a guy that was all wealthy.  When she met me at a friggin Panera to talk about the divorce (prior to that, all I got was a single phone call), she pulled up in a really tricked out BMW M5.  I mean like REALLY tricked out.  I guess she did that just to screw with me.  Come to find out the guy lives in a dumpy part of town in a small apartment.  Way less money than my BPD ex wife and I had. 

But, my imagination got the better of me and I felt exactly the way you do.

Guess what?  I even went to the bank and got her $10K  Yup.  Because she said we had a future and we would get remarried someday after we "started over" dating, etc... .    ALL LIES.

The best thing to do is just forget about her.  I know it's pretty hard to imagine that now, but as the hate starts to replace the love, it will get easier.  Just keep going on.  Don't go back.  Don't contact. 

I'm still struggling with that.  I want to contact, but I haven't.  It's been a while now... .  maybe 2 weeks no contact?  Not sure.  Not counting because I'm just trying not to think about the nasty person I was married to for 10 years.  Trying to do other things.

You can't put a price tag on the value of making it to the other side of all this madness!

   I would venture to say, that this is a typical answer that she would give, when you were in a r/s with her ?... .  Its still the dance, just a different step. Why does she continue with this behavior? Its the same behavior you allowed, so in her head this is just status quo, she is a child. Your contact is validating her behavior, whether you are nice or mean. If your nice, the r/s is just as it used to be. If your mean, it validates her leaving and is probably closer to what she knows and understands.


Ive witnessed 10x the growth, from my pre teen, and teenage daughters in the past yr and a half, than the ex showed me in 12 1/2 yrs. Back to denial and bargaining. Its the subconscious protecting the conscious. This is the conflict, not this r/s... .  When I started to make sense of what was really going on, my ex tried to get on board. It was apparent, very quickly, that she was incapable. It was my selfishness, that wouldnt understand this, and only prolonged my recovery. I finally believed that I was going to have to become healthier, without her. It was sad, yet the best thing I ever did for myself.


Its myrtar like, to not let it go. If its any consolation, 5k was a drop in the bucket, for all the hobbies, schooling, career changes, and temporary happiness gifts I bought through out 12+ yrs... .  At the very least it just keeps you from enduring the abandonment depression, that is necessary to get through this in a healthier way. Can you see how you are avoiding this? That everything you are saying is just an excuse.




You dont, but the more you do get comfortable with these feelings, and put them in there correct place(because you learned something wrong), the easier it gets.  Stop seeing the lies you are telling yourself, because an emotion runs you over. The only way you are going to be able to see this in a different light, is to become more, emotionally mature yourself. No magic pill, nobody else to do this for you, especially not your ex. Your asking the flu virus, to help you get over the flu. Contact, recycles, and re- engagements, are just forms to keep the dysfunctional attachment, we choose to not let go.




Because you want to believe she sees this as you do. You have read countless times, why this is, believe it... .  It was deep for you, and getting through this is no easy task. Your ability/inability to see this/yourself on a deeper level, will determine a lot.


You can, its your choice. But dont expect a different result, when you continue to do things the same way.


This is what many are trying to do for you also. Its an impossible task for you to accomplish, for her, the only one, possible out come,... .  failure... Its on her, for her issues, just as yours are, for you... .  I see you making small steps struggli, keep it up. Sometimes the kindest act, for both, is to just walk away... .  I wish you well, PEACE

 Even if she wants to reconcile, its only a matter of time till she bounces again, stay NC and try some online dating if you're shy or whatever, i found that just "browsing" online got my mind off her whenever i started thinking about her, and went out with a couple women. Just dont go too fast or sleep with anyone too soon in my opinion, i did with both and it made me miss the ex even more because the sex didnt compare. I think if there was any real connection, the sex would of been a non-issue. Like i said though, even just browsing or chatting online with some new women helped me control myself about thinking about the ex constantly.

Also, after getting blindsided and hurt so bad by the ex, instead of crawling into a hole, im doing things like asking attractive women for their names and numbers wherever and whenever i want to, as opposed to the old me, who would never approach a woman unless i was drinking. Now i feel like i have nothing to lose, after i just lost the most precious woman in the world to me.