BPDFamily.com

I have been dating a young woman for the past 3 years whom I found out has BPD half-way through the relationship, after much turmoil and confusion as to where our ups and downs came from. I had heard from her dad earlier in the relationship that she had BPD and that she went to counseling for it, but I never thought anything of it until a few weeks ago. We met on a trip through mutual friends, and spend two weeks together until returning to our separate states. We talk constantly, sleep together over skype, and go to each other for our problems. We try and visit each other when we have time off every year, and I visited her over the summer and during Christmas, and we went to Charleston, SC together for a weekend getaway. It was the best trip we've had together, and it really made me feel even stronger about what we have.

Recently things started to fall apart. She started spending time with a new 'friend' (who we'll call guy #2) she knows in person. After a few weeks, guy #2 admitted his feelings for her, which has now resulted in a 'relationship' between them. According to everyone in her life, I'm out of the picture. They think I'm long gone. My first reaction was one of paranoia and jealousy, demanding she communicate with me about the situation and that it wasn't fair for her to cut me out like that, and that if she cared she would respond to my feelings and at least communicate with me. She responded with apathy, telling me if I'm going to overreact I might as well remove myself from her life. I was completely shocked at her response, and it left me grief-stricken for a few days while I thought about the situation.

This is not the first time this has happened, either. A similar situation happened almost exactly a year ago with another person, where she acted toward me with apathy while latching on to this new guy (who we'll call guy #1), despite our two year history. I didn't put up with it very well, and told her more or less I wasn't going to be a part of that situation. After some time she told me she still wanted to be in a relationship with me, she just couldn't break up with guy #1. And that she still wanted me and loved me more than she wanted him. She told me that we could maintain what we have (our long distance relationship) while she kept what she had in person with guy #1. I was upset and weary about the situation, but she reassured me it was only temporary and that she wanted me in the long run. So I kept myself in her life and she continued to treat me like we were still in a relationship. We would still tell each other I love you, we'd talk about what we ate for lunch, we'd text throughout the day, and we even shared some regular intimacy between the two of us, be it skype, phone, etc. more so than we did before. Nothing had changed between us, until she was with them. When she was with guy #1, her feelings for me turned off. When she was with me, her feelings for him turned off. Eventually I find out he is abusive to her, but she still refused to break it off. She felt like she couldn't. So at this point, I would regularly console my ex-girlfriend when she talked to me about her abusive bf whom she was currently cheating on me with. This lasted for some while until she broke up with him after a few months.

Fast forward to a year later, and the same thing is happening with a new person, sans abuse (hopefully). When she is with me, her feelings for guy #2 turn off. When she is with him, her feelings for me turn off. I told myself the first time that I would not allow myself to be in this situation again, and that I would remove her from my life. At first, I didn't attempt to and I was at a loss of how to handle it, I could not think clearly in my mindset. She told me she still loved me from time to time, but we did not talk as much as we used to, just like the beginning of guy #1. She was infatuated and idealized this new, mysterious person. So her time was prioritized to them, and I felt like a backup. But when she did spend time with me, it felt good, but bad. I found myself struggling with dependency and my self-worth, I felt like the situation was my fault and that it is my responsibility to reconcile the relationship I had ruined, and that if she wanted me to stay I would stay. It lasted this way for a few weeks, and I just couldn't take it anymore. I had to get out of my own head.

I went to a therapist and close family friend, and described the situation and her response to my attempts for communication. They helped me come to my senses in some ways, and told me that whether or not the relationship works out is not what matters. What matters is that I maintain a healthy mindset, despite the outcome. And that my concern should be for my well-being first, as if I don't feel healthy emotionally, my relationship with my girlfriend would not be healthy emotionally. I told them about my frustration with her apathy toward me in this situation,and how easily she moved on, but that I felt like it was my fault. They told me not to dwell on past feelings, and that my decisions in the past have been made, there is no point in thinking about what you should have done, rather focusing on what you should do. They told me if she has moved on to this other person so quickly and without my knowledge, that she likely has no regard for my feelings and might be manipulating me. I thought about it and I just couldn't come to a logical conclusion, I couldn't feel right about any decision.

The next day I sent her an email describing my interaction with my therapist:

"I told a therapist about our situation (guy #2), and the previous situation with Jaidev (guy #1). The therapist told me that grief, paranoia, and jealousy are all common reactions to losing a relationship with a significant other. I told the therapist that and you and me are still together, and that I still value our relationship greatly. The therapist asked me if I feel healthy right now, mentally and emotionally. I replied I do not. The therapist told me that if I feel unhealthy in this relationship with you, the relationship itself will not be healthy. They then asked me if I had talked to you about my feelings on the situation and I said I tried to, but in the wrong ways. The therapist asked me what I thought the right ways are, and I replied I didn't know, and that I felt I was pushing you away every time I brought it up. The therapist asked me how I would hold onto someone if they wouldn't communicate with me. I said you love me very much and I love you very much as well, and that we've had rough patches before but we understand each other very well. The therapist asked me if you understood how I was feeling, and I replied I don't know. The therapist then asked me if I understand how you are feeling, and I replied, again, I don't know. I told her you struggled with insecurities and that you told me you didn't want to feel alone anymore. The therapist asked me if you felt alone with me, and I told her about our trip, and how after we got back things declined and you weren't happy and how hard it was because I wasn't there. We talked about some other things as well but I can't paraphrase them and they weren't as significant. She told me that to continue to be in a relationship with someone who wants to be in a relationship with someone else is not healthy, and that you are trampling on my feelings by keeping me in this situation. She told me love is a very powerful feeling and it hurts to lose an emotional investment in someone you care about. She told me that to remain in the situation as it is now would only be detrimental to us both. She told me that she thought it would be best to end all communication with you and to move on, because of how unhealthy the situation is and what it is doing to me mentally and emotionally. She told me if you allowed yourself to act on the feelings you felt with someone else while in a relationship with me, that you might not love me and respect me as much as I think you do. She told me that if our love was really as strong as I thought it was, you would make more of an effort to keep what we have instead of moving on without effort or communication. And that for me to keep myself in this situation would be unfair to myself and my feelings. She told me not to stick around for someone who has already moved on, and that I should try to move on and surround myself with friends and family."

I told her I still wanted to talk, but I could not be in this situation if we could not communicate and that I think it would be best for me to leave, and that it would be best for both her happiness and mine. She texted me and called me and became hysterical and told me she had ruined everything and that she didn't want to live anymore. I became concerned and told her that if I wanted to leave first, I would not have sent her the email, and that I do still want her in my life, but this situation is not healthy. She begged and pleaded with me and told me she needed me in my life and that she ruined everything by making this stupid decision, and I felt bad to hear her crying like that so I empathized with her and told her I was upset, and that the therapist wasn't judging her but was only reflecting on what I was able to tell her of the situation... .  and that it is my decision whether or not I leave or stay, and that I'm still here. Later I found out she had inflicted significant self-harm and I was worried, and due to her state of hysteria I told her I would call the police if she didn't show me how bad it was. I felt awful for the situation and broke down from my stern demeanor and began babying her again with empathy and reassurance. I told her I still loved her and that I don't want to hurt her, and that I was just upset and that I would stay, I just needed to know whether or not she still wanted me in her life. After saying this, she told me I was right and that if I wanted to leave I could go, whatever, bye. I replied that I didn't want to leave, I wanted to stay with her, and continued to give her reassurance. I feel like as soon as I gave her the reassurance and sense that I was not abandoning her, her tone shifted back from empathetic to apathetic.

After this episode, things went back to how they were before I talked to her, albeit a bit better. She makes the effort to tell me she loves me, and we had some genuinely good fun together, laughing through a movie and talking about how our days went. But as soon as her attention focuses to the other guy, it's like I don't exist until she is ready to talk to me again. It is very frustrating for me, and I don't know what to do. She has reassured me what she has with him is "just watching movies and holding hands" and that she wants a life with me, to grow old with me, and marry me. I was moved by the sentiment but felt bitter and jaded toward the fact she is still in another relationship, despite her feelings for me, and that I would never do something like this to her.

I am still at a loss of what to think, I have been trying to learn to handle my own frustrations and personal torment, but I still struggle with what decisions to make and how to best handle the situation. I am in the process of reading "Stop Walking on Egg Shells" and I can relate to a lot of what is going on. I just feel like my relationship with this girl is like a loaded deck, and I won't know what cards are in it until I lose.

Any perspective is greatly appreciated, I feel like I am losing control and I don't know what to do.

dogpirate, if you go back and read your post as-if it was from someone else, about someone else, what would you think of the situation? What would you advise them to do? Especially considering guy #1 and now guy #2.

And yes, I have experienced this as well:
I was always fascinated by it. I always thought, wouldn't you at least pretend a little longer so you were less obvious?

Of course, they are not pretending. This is how they think.

It is a hard situation, and in all honesty I don't know what I would tell someone else who was in a similar situation. Browsing the forums and reading about patterns in BPD behavior has helped immensely and allowed me to gain a sliver of insight into what is really going on, but I am still at a loss.

I feel that the reason she started dating guy #1 was because I was not validating her feelings enough, as I was working 60 hours a week and there would be hours and hours in-between my replies to her. I think this caused a lack of object constancy in our relationship, which made her branch out to someone else in fear of abandonment. Once her feelings were validated by guy #1, she began to idealize him in place of me, which led to a slow but steady devaluation of her feelings toward me. My attitude with her was negative at first, and my responses were mostly invalidating or codependent. As the relationship went on though, we eased back into some of what we had, and pretty soon my relationship with her was the "true relationship", and he was the "extra baggage". I don't know why this happened, but she began idealizing me in place of him and it became this almost taboo sort of affair, where we were secretly together still. Also I found out from her that he was emotionally/physically abusive, which led to an empathetic response from me, which I feel brought us back even closer, as she found comfort in my words away from him.

her relationship with guy #2 blind-sided me, as she had told me beforehand she was afraid of him saying he had feelings for her. This situation erupted 3 weeks after we had one of the best trips of our lives together. When we got back to our separate states, both of us had feelings of emptiness because we were no longer together physically. I am unsure if that invoked a feeling a fear of abandonment in her because of a lack of object constancy, as I was no longer there so "out of sight, out of mind"... .  ? Either way, we also had some difficulties adjusting to our away time. We became frustrated at each other trying new games, as she is very competitive and as soon as something goes wrong, I am blamed for her poor performance... .  The first thing I did wrong is when she accused me of fighting with her when we played games, I agreed and apologized. I should not have validated her feelings of me being wrong, but rather her feelings of frustration with the game and that I can relate to feeling that way. This happened two or three more times, and things became heated between us for a week or two. I apologized again and again, saying it would be different the next time. I think this introduced a "trend" of disappointment in her interaction with me, which led to devaluation toward her feelings with me. That I was being wrong, not that the games were frustrating. Once she felt I wasn't being "up to snuff", she let her feelings wander elsewhere. And due to the lack of object constancy, she had no trouble adjusting to someone new, and here I am in a similar situation to guy #1.

She has idealized her feelings with him, and they are in the "honey moon" phase. When she is with him, her feelings for me turn off. When she is with me, she tells me she still wants me and she loves me, but I don't think her feelings for him turn off. I am only experiencing about 20% of her life right now, whereas he is experiencing the full 100% and he is there in person to reassure her. I feel as if this will only get worse and I am slowly witnessing it fall apart.

It is hard because when I told her I was leaving, she became hysterical and told me she needed me in her life and that she would die without me, which in itself was very hard to deal with because I was frustrated at the situation and the fact I invoked that emotional response from her, I was convinced at that point she had moved on and I didn't want to cause her emotional distress, only to convey my feelings and give some closure to my thoughts before I left.

It is very hard because she keeps telling me that I am the one she wants to marry, and to grow old with, and to live life with. She told me she is just with him in person because she is unhappy and tired of feeling alone, and that being close to someone in person makes her happy. It is just so hard for me to make a decision because I find myself in situations where it feels like she has nothing but apathy for me, and then out of the blue she calls me her true love and all this other stuff and, of course, I reciprocate the feelings and go back to square #1. I am just at a loss of what to do.

dogpirate,

*welcome*

You are about the most "BPD aware" new poster that I have ever read.  |iiii

But understanding the issue doesn't remove the difficult feelings you are processing.   Your gf's "on and off" again approach to the men in her life has got to be extremely difficult and painful.   

You seem to be right into the analytical part of things so I feel a bit free to do the same.   As such, I may challenge you a bit - in a way that I hope is a useful way to you.   

I find your statement about "losing control" to be a bit ironic since I see you exercising a lot of control.   

First, you are in control of understanding BPD - a good thing.

But you also fairly strongly trying to "control" your BPDgf through your analysis and therapy - and thats not as good.  To her, the email and your follow up dicussions must have been intimidating and will have been perceived as all the things you think are wrong with her and you want changed - or you will leave.  The use of ultimatums is a very basic form of attempted control and she reacted in a predictable way.   

If you look over to the right of this post you will see the heading "Choosing an Path"

Have a look and let me know what you think "Choosing a Path" means relative to your situation. 

I want to stay with her, I have decided that at this point. We talked today, on my birthday, and things escalated... .  She told me couldn't go to dinner with me because she was eating dinner with someone else, and I assumed and asked if it was guy #2. This provoked a response from her saying she can't talk to me because I am constantly assuming the worst and being accusatory, which I tried to validate in my replies... .  I told her I was trying to be as compassionate as I could, and that my replies were not meant to be accusatory, but just to express how I am feeling... .  She told me that I  bring this up every day and that she hasn't changed at all, and that I am pushing her away by constantly "whining and complaining". It is very hard for me to not communicate, and I don't know the right way to go about it... .  I know I should probably "Stop the bleeding" and stop presenting it as a problem. She has told me at this point she is preemptive about spending time with me because of how negative I've been and how much I've pushed her to talk about communication. She told me that she is more inclined to spend time with guy #2 because all he does is make her laugh and treat her nicely, whereas I'm lecturing her and making her feel bad for no reason.

I just don't know what steps to take, I do suffer from codependency so it's hard for me to sit idly and watch her give her feelings to someone else while I am left until she throws me a bone. I am very low priority in her life right now.

Wow.  Just Wow.  A+

dogpirate.

EVERY day, EVERY minute, and EVERY second you spend on and with her is time you Cannot Spend on someone else who is worth your while.

Even spending time with yourself sounds better than this.

jmho -- Get out of there before she figures out that kids will keep you.

At this point spending time with myself would be better than this, but it's hard. We have been going through this rough patch for 3 weeks, she's been with this other person for 3 weeks but she's effectively "cheating" on him with me, as we continue as an intimate couple, she just has him in person as well. He is unaware of what is going on and I have been let in, I just don't know how to react.

I think she is gauging whether or not things can be functional between us still and she perceives my attempts at communication as telltale signs things won't work out. I have always acted as a provider and a means of comfort to her, and now that the table has turned and I am creating "conflict" she has become more and more dissuaded.

She told me last night she is preemptive about spending time with me because she's afraid of me always talking to her about these things, and that our relationship was unhealthy whether I realize it or not, and that we were both extremely dependent on each other. I agreed and I told her about my struggles with depression and codependency, but that we are aware and I would like to find out with her what steps she would like to take to get back to being healthy. She told me it was my fault and that I should stop bringing the issue up, and that if I'm going to be negative all the time she would much rather spend time with guy #2 because he cracks jokes and makes her smile.

It is hard for me to not take what she says to heart in the heat of the moment. She apologized later for getting angry with me, and I apologized as well, but things are still iffy. Every morning she usually tells me she loves me and to have a great day, but this morning she didn't. It's just hard for me to keep cool, it's like being surrounded by sharks in calm water and every splash I make brings me closer to being eaten.

It's getting worse and worse, yesterday she said she would spend time with me today because she was so busy on my birthday. Now I asked her "What are you up to, sweetheart?" and she replied "I'm busy" 3 or 4 hours ago and hasn't replied back to me. After promising she would make up for lost time yesterday, she does this today. I know she is with this other guy right now, and she won't talk to me in his presence because he thinks I'm gone and it would make it weird between them, he doesn't know she still talks to me the way she does. I feel like she is willing to disregard my feelings whenever it suits her situation.

dogpirate,

It seems to me that you value monogamy in a relationship. Examining our values leads us to being able to establish boundaries.  

So if you value monogamy, what boundary do you think you should be setting right now?

I do value monogamy and I feel that long-term committed love should be between two exclusive partners. We had talked momentarily about an open relationship, given the long-distance aspect. But I feel she only agreed to it as damage control because she had already started seeing someone else.

My concrete barrier is intimacy. I can understand the need of physical comfort, as she struggles with object constancy. But if she cannot control her sexual desires long enough to be with me (I move back in 2 months), then I will remove myself from the situation. She has promised that there will be no intimacy between them, and that is my concrete boundary. If she becomes sexually active with this person, the decision has already been made in my heart. I will take what steps are necessary so that she doesn't feel the full blunt of abandonment, but at that point I will want to be gone from her life.

At this point we have "agreed" on a relationship that is purely affection and physical comfort, I have allowed that much because I know the distance hurts her. As far as I see it, holding hands with some schmo and having him take her to movies is basically like a platonic friendship with a relationship label on it. I do very much trust her still, and she was honest with her infidelity in the past (which was sexual), so I trust she will tell me if it does become intimate. She knows I struggle with codependency now, as I slipped up and told her I had been struggling mentally and emotionally and that was the reason that when I talked my thoughts weren't always organized properly, and that my feelings might be entirely wrong but that I still experience them.

It hurts that I am not there physically and that she is replacing the feeling she got from me with someone else, but I don't know what her motivation is for not breaking it off with me. I feel like she's either:

1. Keeping me around in an attempt to let me down easy to remain friends/acquaintances

2. Keeping me around in an attempt to search her own feelings for what she really wants while she dates this other guy, using my complacency and breathing room to explore someone else and see if they're better/worse for her. (using me as a 'just-in-case' backup)

3. Keeping me around because she is still in love with me, but needs to shift away from her dependency/issues because she doesn't feel healthy and wants to be happy and that I am currently triggering them for one reason or the other (this is what I'm learning toward, and what I got out of recently talking to her)

4. Keeping me around in an attempt to make me leave her, so that she feels justified in her decision to start dating this other person because I would've left anyway (I lean toward this sometimes, but I dread it)

I've asked her recently if she wants to distance herself from me, and she replied "I don't think so" so I'm not entirely sure where to go next. I know contemplating these hypothetical scenarios is unhealthy and counter-intuitive to my main goal of maintaining my own happiness and independence, it just irks me sometimes because there is so much uncertainty. I've really tried to get into the "let it flow" mindset, to just let things be as they are and not fight change. The radical acceptance thread has helped a lot, as have a lot of other posts on the forum. It just hurts because she has told me consistently that I am the one she wants to be with, and that she's still here and that she loves me more than anything, and that she still wants to marry me and grow old with me and etc... .  but we're still in this situation.

So it's okay with you that she hangs out with other men as long as she's not having sex with them?  Do you think you will be able to maintain control of that "boundary" with her - especially since you are quite some distance apart?

She's truthful with me, I think she will tell me... .  I really wish I had found this board earlier, going back I recognize a slew of invalidation and unhealthy behavior on my part toward her. I have a better understanding of why this is all happening now.

Bear with me, but you didn't quite answer my questions.  And don't worry, neither did I when I first joined bpdfamily.com.  Also, I was codependent as hell, but didn't realize it - at least you do.   |iiii

First, is it "okay" with you - and you will still consider your relationship to be monogamous - if your gf is intimate with other guys - as long as she isn't having sex with them?

Second, what boundary can you establish; what action can you take to make sure that she doesn't?

It is okay as long as she doesn't have sex with them / engage in sexual activity with them. Anything they couldn't do in public I don't approve of.

I told her originally when I gave the ultimatum (which was a bad idea in retrospect) that if the situation became similar to her first guy (which was sexual) that I don't want to be around it. My boundary was that if she does become sexual, I would cut off communication and separate myself from her life.

Update, girlfriend and I decided to go our separate ways. She told me that my 'hostility and negativity' about the situation is not good for her and that she doesn't want me in her life anymore.

Thanks everyone, I will continue to read this website to try and understand what has happened and heal.

Dogpirate,

I went through a very similar situation - there were two other guys involved - her previous partner, that she kept going back to during most of our relationship, and my replacement who she is now engaged to.

I stood by while my ex stayed in an intimate relationship with her previous partner.  It nearly destroyed me but I stayed with her because I thought she was just going through a difficult time.  Each time I assured her I was not walking away, her attitude towards me became apathetic.   I was accused of making her feel bad about what she did when all I wanted was to speak to her calmly about things.   She could never do it, and any time I brought it up it triggered negative behaviour.   No doubt part of the reasons my ex used was because all he  [my replacement] did  "is make her laugh and treat her nicely", whereas "I'm lecturing her and making her feel bad for no reason".

I hope you heal better than I did.   From your posts you seem to have a good understanding of the dynamic of these types of relationships.   

Hi Dogpirate,

I see at the end of the thread, your r/s has ended and that you are trying to heal.  I would say my ex of 13 years made me feel all of the above you wrote at the end of our r/s. . .I finished the r/s in the end, I simply couldn't stand it any-more, knowing as well he had started multiple r/ships of various kinds with other women.  I would say he felt a mixture of them all too.  He tried to re-cycle many times. . .it was horrific - I still really loved him and was fighting with myself everyday not to get pulled back in to something I knew could never be what I wanted  

I remember him once after a cocktail of drinking and weed-smoking (he was using various drugs quite heavily at the end) calling me his 'best bet'. . .when I replied horrified 'I'm your what?' he basically pooped his pants, but it said it all.  He suffered quite a lot when he drank and smoked from 'spillage' - his thoughts would come out, in a cryptic way, but I could see it all playing out before me.

There was stuff like us 'not being able to live without one another'; he would push me to see what I would accept; subtle threats of him ending it.  He once read a card he had sent me that I kept in my bedroom with words that were important to me. . .he just looked at it and said 'did I write that', as if he was surprised he had ever felt that way about me. . .and so much more but all to indicate what you felt above.

I would prepare yourself that this may not be the end. . .as others have said you seem very aware and this will serve you well. . .but if they try and re-engage it can be very testing.

Good Luck  

 

I just read your story and Im kind of in the same boat as you, except mine denies there is anyone else but I am pretty sure there is. He continues to tell me he wants me in bis life, then seems to push me aside for others ( or so I believe) He then is perplexed at the negativity of my behavior. As if Im suppose to be happy and plesant to a man who pushes me aside while he chats up with new girls. I just think this is their way of pushing our buttons, causing negative behavior so they can blame it on us because the pain and shame is too much for them to bear that they ruined it. Dont feel bad, its typical for them to push the people they love away and settle for people who are less lovable or valuable to them. Its such a catch 22, does anyone ever win  against this disorder? I dont think so.

It's just very hard to go from talking to someone you love for hours and hours to at the peak of your relationship to having them reply to you a few days later with an empty "sure" or "I guess so" at any attempt of communication. I have had lots of ups and downs throughout this entire ordeal, which no doubt has only fueled the fire. One night she said I could talk and asked if I was free, I said I was and I didn't make any plans that night so I would be free to talk to her. She comes home at 3 am after being out all night with this guy, and then fall asleep without calling me or anything. I told her I was done with the situation, that I was tired of being neglected and treated like garbage, and that I couldn't be with someone or have someone in my life who refuses to act like they want the same with me.

After this, she told me she was tired of me being a constant downer and constantly whining about my feelings and being a sadsack. (I am sad, and there have been a few occasions where I became pretty manic/desperate, but they were weeks in-between after such abhorrent treatment.) She told me she doesn't think I was ever good for her, and that I lied, cheated, forgot, and neglected her.

(Earlier in the relationship, one of her friends added me over Skype and performed a honeypot asking if I wanted to 'see' her, and I replied 'sure, why not?' because it's the internet, regretfully. This is her instance of cheating, whereas her relationship with guy #1 isn't considered cheating in her mind.)

She said she doesn't want to see me anymore or be with me and that this new guy makes her happy, whereas I make her miserable. Quite a change in her tune from my original situation where I threatened to leave her, which led to her reacting hysterically and begging me to stay in her life. Now she's told me I can stay or go and it doesn't matter to her.

I know, mine did the same. Wed talk and chat everyday all day long, hed always be checking on me to make sure i was still ' with him. Then hed get weirdly cold and distant Id want to break it off with him and hed come back NO I need you and get all panicy. We did this a few times before he finally flipped a switch and didnt care anymore. I think thats when he found my replacement. We tried to get back a few times but once theyve split you and discarded, i dont think they ever get back the same feelings again. It really is sad and it seems to hurt us more than it does them. They move on seemingly easy. I think mines had several short-term meaningless girls since me. We lasted 6 months and he seemed to believe this was a long time.

The lack of closure is just hard. She still tells me I'm her sweetheart and that she loves me sometimes, but at this point I don't know if it is out of perceived 'pity' for my feelings because she knows I am suffering with this because she wouldn't let me be alone. It's like she is trying to appease to what she knows isn't true for my benefit, like telling a dying man they're going to be okay. It's just not right.

It just hurts that after all of this and the stress it has caused because we never had a break from each other (she never allowed it), the impending stress caused even more tension and negativity between us to the point where she now loathes conversation with me because I wasn't in good spirits for the past month. She blames the entire downfall of the relationship on my demeanor, which was caused by her cheating on me in the first place. I just don't know what her thought process is but it hurts that she no longer places value in me as someone to talk to or someone to be a part of her life, she told me she doesn't think I was ever good for her and that this new guy was something I wasn't and that he makes her happy. It's just very stressful.

I understand how you feel. . .it hurts, more than they will ever realise.  The fact is, as hard as it is to understand, she is feeling all she says - she loves you sometimes but she doesn't want the stress that your questions cause. I was cheated on - he never apologised face-to-face, never took accountability, didn't want to address it and only seemed to want me if I forgot it all and 'made it good again' - he said 'we should start dating again', as if it was just that easy after all that had gone on, and that I had to 'make it worth his while'

Even though I have read and understand it in theory, to grasp it in reality, is hard  

You are on the undecided board. . .is this because you still hope to work it out?  At the moment with a new guy around, what are you thinking?

Honestly I don't know. I have struggled with depression and codependency for a few years now, in 2010 my uncle died unexpectedly and then in 2012 my best friend. I feel that these occurrences caused me to have an unhealthy attachment to her as a coping mechanism because she would comfort me through the bad. I invested a lot of my happiness into her and now I realize I should not have done such a thing. What hurts the most is it didn't taper off, she cheated on me in what I considered to be the high point of our relationship, we had just had an amazing trip together and things were better than ever. It just hurts, it really does.

I wish I had left when I said I would, now she demonizes me because I didn't drop it and I never became complacent. She went from empathizing to being entirely apathetic in that regard, and her only concern is my health at this point.

Just checking in dogpirate.   :)

Where are things at right now? Are you separated per the first quote or is there still an option as evidenced by the second quote? 

They are only getting worse, I think she's only checking in on me to make sure I'm 'okay' because I have let my emotions through while talking to her, and I have expressed myself while in a state of panic.

The lack of communication has been there since this situation with guy #2 all started, only now it has gotten worse. Now she is comfortable enough with him to the point where she doesn't feel she 'needs' me in her life, so she doesn't care if she keeps me or not. It just feels bad to be replaced, that's all. We're no longer dating, at this point I am just wondering if the best thing to do now is cut communication and if so, how to do it.

We still sleep together every night over Skype, and she still tells me she loves me and that I'm her sweetheart, but at this point it just doesn't feel real.

At this point, this is our interaction: On weekdays, we sleep together at 12. We exchange 'I love you's and then when sleep, no talking or anything. On weekends, we sleep together at 3 am. Same thing. This is all the interaction I have with her, literally. None of my texts are answered, none of my other attempts at communication are answered. No matter how hard I try to communicate, it just doesn't work. This was what was happening when I said I wanted to leave 3 weeks ago when I sent her the email about my therapist if things didn't change, and they haven't. Only now she doesn't care if I leave either way, so at this point it's only what is best for me, the situation won't change. It's just so hard, to go from talking to someone you're in love with every day for hours and hours to not talking to them at all. Literally not at all.

What does this mean - without getting too graphic? Are you saying cyber sex?

And how does this work when she's already got another/other guy(s)  in her life?  She sends him home or rushes from the ball so as to get back to you by midnight/3am?

I am not trying to judge when I concur that this can't feel real... .  

She doesn't live with him, and he doesn't sleep over. After she's done spending time with him, she comes home and then we sleep together over Skype in an audio-call, I guess it's just one of those things. Nothing sexual, just sleeping in each other's silence so we can hear the other asleep, I guess it's a way to feel closer to each other. We've done this for almost a year.

What is the concern she has for your health - do you have a medical condition or is she worried about your emotional/mental health? 

I guess I am a little concerned about the Skype thing - are you still getting a good nights sleep?  I would find the silence excruciating and wouldn't be sleeping at all.

I am going down this track because one of the first things to suffer in a relationship with a person with BPD is our health - commonly through lack of sleep. It's one of the things that usually needs to be addressed first. 

She is concerned for my emotional/mental health. She knows I have had trouble sleeping and a loss of appetite since all of this has gone down and that I am under a lot of stress.

I talked to her yesterday and explained to her it would be best if I left her life. She didn't seem phased, but I said my goodbyes and wished her well. We're no longer in contact... .  

I thought this would be the inevitable end, and I was able to leave without the fear of her hurting herself. That's all I really wanted... .  it is still a very harsh reality to me, though. Thank you everyone for replying and helping me throughout this ordeal, it means tons to me.

dogpirate,

Getting to a point of where a decision can be made so inner peace is achieved is the goal. 

We're here to help further as needed.   

Now she's texted me this morning saying she is disappointed and that she hates me, and that I'm an untrustworthy btch for trying to add her new boyfriend on facebook and sneak behind her back... .  

... .  except I don't have a facebook. Very fishy, I don't know what to think of it. Either he is lying or she is lying. I am just glad to begin the path of healing and getting past this situation with her.

Things have gotten much worse... .  She says she wants me to stay the hell out of her life and that I'm not her friend anymore, she never wants to see me again and that I'm not the same person I fell in love with and that she regrets ever meeting me. I'm just a person she regrets meeting.

DP,

This change is indeed very difficult. 

How do you feel about not being the person she fell in love with?  How did you respond to her when she said that (if you responded)

I said I am the same person, I am just going through a hard time because of this transition. I told her she's seen the worst of me this past month, and she's told me she realized I am not who I acted like around her, and that I was simply putting on a 'ruse' and she realized that the last time I visited she didn't have a good time. (Which is false)... .  She said she won't get into it, end of discussion. But she told me she doesn't love me anymore and that she doesn't want to be friends, she just wants me gone from her life.

Contrary to what you told her, it would seem she's seen a stronger and better you - and it is not something she was prepared for.

Rather than back down and deny your changes, what if you would have said " I understand how the changes I have made must be frustrating to you."

How would she react?

I didn't get the chance to, but she's replied to me and told me she loves this new guy, he's much better than I ever was, and they're in a sexual relationship and that she doesn't care about me anymore. So I'm finished, thanks all... .  

Hi Dogpirate,

Sorry she is so cruel and ridiculous. Seems to me she was usingnprojection on you in your last several posts. Just before they end things they tend to do this. Make u out to be the monster because they cant accept any fault. Dont feel bad if u can help it, shell do the same to her next victim. Itll take time to heal from this soul damaging experience youve had. Learn from it. Next time recognize the rrd flags and make surr your in a relatiinship with a mature individual who doesnt need their abusive behavior validated. Doesnt it just make u sick to have to validate their feelings when they are trampling all over yours. Puke... .  

wow dog pirate wow, I must say that I can relate, I really can, and I think I will post something longer later, but honestly you shouldnt be around for that, whatever it takes, get out, I took my girl around the world quite literally for her to turn around and give me that same kind of behaviour, it is not worth it man, really as much as I still want her in my heart I know it shouldnt be. I think in your heart you feel that way too. Check that I think it will help:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=189843.new#new

I had the chance to leave before it turned sour, but I didn't. I should have left when I gave her the ultimatum that I was leaving, but my feelings were still fresh and there was still uncertainty. This has been a fantastic learning experience, and I am glad it only lasted as long as it did. It is very hard to stay out of empathy and compassion for someone else, only to witness their love for you slowly turn into discontent and apathy, and then hatred.

You are so right dogpirate. Its so hard, u just want to turn it around and its like death but worse cause the person is still bodily there and its so hard to wrap your head around it. Its a weird painful experience for sure. I too wish Id had just walked away peacefully. Mine actually tried to leave on a happy note when it ended he said things like Ill always love you, and remember how happy you made me... .  but followed with a goodbye. I didnt want to accept the goodbye part.  I wish I had long ago.

Dogpirate,

The hardest thing may be yet to come. When/if she contacts you and says she knows it was all her fault, that you are who she really needs, and that she wants to try again to be lovers or friends... .  What are you going to do?

They become so sincere and full of love when they want you. It's not fake love either. But it is only one of many emotions that she will continue to experience, some of which will over-ride the feeling of love. Emotional survival will outvote and outweigh love. And survival comes by having backups for when they get bored with you or you become disenchanted with her. And she knows that one or the other will happen. Experience tells her that.

BTW... .  The abuse that she experiences with one or both of her guys will be a bond between them, a trauma bond. I say that for four reasons. They need the drama. They feel they deserve it. They never have to feel morally inferior to the abuser. And they get to relive the initial abuse that started them on their BPD path. The last reason is similar to why men visit battlefields on which they fought and killed and watched their brothers die. Sorta like trying to get closure.

oh... .  and dont try to win her love by faking to be an abuser. While the thought occurred to me, it's probably a good way to end up either in jail or completely empty and dark in heart, soul, and mind. If you are the giving, caring, and compromising sort -as I think you might be - let your goodness stand as a testament to who you are. You may never be with her again but in some few moments of clarity, she will remember and respect your integrity... .  Even if you are painted black 99% of the time.

Just my opinions, of course.

*mod*

While many pwBPD have suffered actual abuse, not all have.  Let's be careful not to overgeneralize.  Overgeneralization can sometimes lead us astray in our understanding of the disorder and our healing journey.


Guideline: Over generalizing (https://bpdfamily.com/content/terms-service#Overgeneralizing)

She wasn't abused by her family, but rather her peers emotionally and verbally. She was treated as an outsider for years and years and years on her gym team, even though she was a top gymnast. They would push her to the point of tears, and even the coaches turned a blind eye to it because they didn't like her either. Her father also berates her for not being good enough, but it's almost like he's given up.

This month has been incredibly hard, possibly the hardest time in my 23 years of life. She has said terrible things to me, and hurt me in ways I have never felt before. She's said the worst possible things she could've said to me contextually, just to rub salt in the wound. Comparing me to her new lover and how much more superior he is to me and how he's made her realize she never loved me because I was terrible to her. Just awful things. She says I tried to force her to love me by threatening her with suicide, when she did that very thing to me in the beginning. She won't talk to me, even if I tried to talk to her. She has even go so far as to say I was worse for her than the first guy who sexually abused her and tried to rape her. She's treating me the exact same way she did with the first guy, except I pushed harder this time so she doesn't feel she can use me as a backup anymore.

I am bipolar and very, very codependent, and I have low self-esteem. I am only now just starting to explore the tip of the iceberg when it comes to my own mental health. 2010's posts have help me come to certain self-realizations that I feel will help me on my road to recovery. As far as this girl goes, the feeling of love and acceptance I once felt for her and with her has slowly started to dwindle. If she does contact me in the future, I won't be apart of it. Until she finds help and accepts the reality of her condition, I cannot and will not subject myself to it again. The thought and feeling that I was ready to marry this girl 2 months ago has become a distance dream, a surreal memory from a different lifetime.

Dear Dogpirate,

  What I wish I had known 20 years ago, is the harm my BPD husband would do to his own children.  Oh please listen to me.  You sound like a really nice guy, maybe with some self-esteem problems.  You are not married to her yet.  I realize that you said some things and you want to be a man of your word.  I really understand that.  But this girl is hard wired badly.  It can take many years of therapy to get this disorder even under control.  You know what is wrong.  Is it right to drag children into that type of relationship?  My goodness, BPD people are so good at throwing around false guilt.  It isn't your fault.  They are the black hole of emotional need.  The purity of spirit that you love in her is a childlike quality, but don't mistake it for actual spirituality.  If you decide for certain to stay, remember that you are marrying an emotional child.  Be sure you are up for being a permanent Daddy before you sign on.  I really wish you the best!

I must say, if every story wasn't similar, I would guess that I was dating the same person. It's hard to accept emotionally that their wiring is so fundamentally different (easy intellectually when you see these stories).

I find the way that we react to these things kind of odd. If someone goes around physically assaulting people we put them in prison, if someone goes around emotionally assaulting people there's nothing to do.

I'm at the point now where I feel like everyone that knows a borderline should keep track of who they are dating and send them some educational material. The sad thing is, it wouldn't stop hardly anyone from going down the rabbit hole. The human need to connect and find love is so strong that when we finally get it, we completely lose rationality and become like heroin junkies.

If someone had given me a packet about borderlines I think I may have been able to extricate myself from it sooner. I mean, if someone would have printed out your story and handed it to me I would have thought they predicted the future. And as the predictions kept coming true in succession I would hope that I would have at least looked into the disorder and not felt so crazy.

Even now it is hard because I am struggling to rationalize my own behavior. I want to take all the positive I can from this and see where I went wrong, but at the same time I know I need to move on. We've permanently cut contact and she's made it clear she never wants to see me again, and this very fact is just hard. It has changed my life drastically as before this happened we were together 24/7 and I find myself struggling with my identity and sense of self-worth.

I just loved her with all of my heart and all of my effort and now I've lost that, I've lost my trust, and it has made it very hard for me to build trust with new people I meet who could be potentially romantic, I am just sick of all of it. The fact that she said I was almost as bad as the boyfriend who was sexually abusive (guy #1) just tore me apart, especially after staying through all of this emotional abuse from her because she was holding her life hostage to manipulate me to her whim. It hurts because I invested so much emotionally and mentally into my relationship with her and in spending time with her, it has definitely taught me a very hard lesson.

What you need to realize is that what she said about you isnt true. Is it? Look at the facts. What she says about you when "devaluing" or "splitting" you isn't really about you, even though she thinks it is. Its a psychological phenomenon integral to BPD. To help you with your self worth, don't believe her "reality" because it's a psychotic one not based on facts. I know what it's like to pour everything into this one person, because that is what they do. Mine did the same, in the beginning we spent every waking moment connected to each other. Minus a few distancing stints right after intimacy, he gave me the impression I was the only girl in the world and that was how he wanted it. I was his and he was mine and no one else existed. I lived like this for about 6 months, then suddenly everything changed out of nowhere, and just as it was begining to reach new levels of intimacy. The devaluation began. It is shocking. Thats whats so hard to get over these relationships. This is not normal. Normal people don't love you madly one day and hate you the next with no explanation. I can tell you I was where you are for probably 6 months after. Complete devastation, sadness, gloom, dazed. It was horrible. It does get better but it takes a while.

A lot of what she said against me was true, but blown out of proportion and she had done similar things to me. My job was a source of stress and due to working 50 hours a week, I lost a lot of energy I had previously. I think she reflected that in herself and felt I was acting that way because of her, not in general.

Yeah, I know what you mean. We act in ways that arent congruent with who we really are when suffering a relationship with BPD people. Ask yourself, did you act this way before your BPD partner? If not then itz safe to assume alot of it was due to the effects of being treated so horribly by someone you love.

You're right, I didn't act like this before I met her. I was a much different person, I was much more open and more sure of myself and my confidence. This relationship has slowly broken down my spirit and I keep coming back for more. I feel like a drug addict who has been broken by years of abuse, struggling to stay off of her and cut my addiction. Today I found out she has starting talking to guy #1 again who sexually abused her and treated her like ~, even though she cut contact with me. This whole thing has just been a drama fest and it's awful that I let myself become so vulnerable with a girl like this. She has devalued me to the point where she has said I am the worst person in her life, and I think she sincerely believes that. She's off spending her time with someone else, and her perspective with him will only grow. I think this is a permanent change and that I'll never be able to talk to this girl again, even if I wanted to. People have been posting thing anonymously on her blog and I know she thinks it was me who posted them, or that I had something to do with them. Honestly at this point I think it's either the guy posting things to defame my character, or she is doing it herself to mess with my head. There's just no way to win with this girl except to bend over backwards for her, and it's awful.

And if you bend over backwards you still wont win. I promise you that. That doesnt work either. Its a long road to healing, im still dealing with the scars from this and Ive always been the type of person who could get over things very quickly, not this case. Im not sure why that is? I have a hard time letting  go of him.

dogpirate, it sounds like she will just keep lying to you to get little scooby-snacks of niceness for you so that she can put herself back together well enough to go back and be in her other more exciting/abusive relationships. please don't trust anything this person says any more. anything she tells you at this point, anything is suspect. i wish you well

It honestly just blows my mind still that all of this has happened. I sometimes go to my phone to text her just out of forgetfulness when I wake up and then realize what all has happened all over again. I am not a spiteful person, and I hate how this new boyfriend has slandered my image to keep himself with her by faking a facebook and god knows what else. Those posts on her blog just kill me to read, because I felt like I was making progress and then something like this happens. Honestly I tried so hard with this girl, and I exhausted my effort the first time I bent over for her when she cheated. This second time was a full year into our relationship and now I'm the one being demonized because I reacted very negatively to the situation and I didn't let up.

dogpirate, this is horrible and i'm really sorry that this is happening to you. i think a good way to look at things is straight and practically--try telling yourself that there's no way things will ever work you with you and her again. i know it's hard, but your intuition may already be trying to get through and tell you this. you already know it. you have proven yourself strong by surviving this long, but now try focusing that strength on leaving completely. she will continue to lie to get you to do what she wants, and it will keep hurting more than the hurt of leaving on your own terms. as i'm saying this to you i'm repeating this to myself. Never again!   hah! try saying it, several times until you mean it, if only for a split second. then welcome and accept the fear that comes after those words--this is why you are strong, to deal with those fears

You're right, she will only continue to do what is best for her in her own self-interest, once that self-interest shifts and she loses what she has now, I know she will come back to me and I will have to be strong and refuse to have this girl in my life. She has taught me a lot about what I enjoy in a person, what I can do to maintain my boundaries, what emotions make me react certain ways, and how to go with the flow. At this point I need to reconcile with myself and make strides to continue living my life and move on. She is the best and worst person I have ever known.

Are there any resources that have helped members who have had to go through similar situations like this in the past? I'm finding myself dwelling on the specifics and the what-ifs... .  I know this isn't the final chapter with her, and I know this new guy is just using her until she is not worth the trouble to him for sex, or he finds someone better. Also I still have a few things on my mind:

1. I know I shouldn't dwell and it might be a bit off topic... .  but I just wonder what someone's motivation is, when they court someone who is currently in a relationship, lie, fake facebook profiles and post anonymous questions to defame my character. My girlfriend told me early on when he was a 'friend' that he surprised her with a candlelit picnic and everything. When he started dating her, he had said that he didn't want a sexual relationship with her... .  merely platonic. Currently I know it's sexual, more sexual than it was with me, even. It is just very fishy and I know this saga won't have a happy ending for her or me, and I know he's more than likely just using her for sex (he told her he 'loved her' less than a month into the relationship and that he wanted to express that love physically... .  gimme a break.)

2. How do you cope when they come back and try to recycle you? I'm hoping that doesn't happen because she split me really hard, said she never wanted to see me again and that I was basically the worst thing in her life at the moment... .  so far we haven't talked in weeks, and she has removed all mention of me from her life. But it still irks me, and I don't want to end up falling into the same trap. Are there any resources available or philosophical works, activities, etc. that have helped you recover from these sorts of things?

Hello dogpirate,

So sorry that you are dealing with so much pain and confusion.

I was wondering, from the questions you ask if you have read through the lessons here on Undecided?

They are structured to help you see a path out of the pain and confusion and lead you towards making wise decisions about your relationship and what you need for yourself.

The Decision Making Guide is a good place to start.

The great member here will support you as you work through this process.



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