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My soon to be ExuBPDw was always an expert at putting up walls against people.  I never thought I would be one of those people after 19 years together.  Last night I made the mistake of asking her if she still loved me - here was her responce.   ----- Not the way u want or deserve to be. I told u that b4.  Im not capable of making myself feel what it doesn't.  I hurt for our loss but the meaness we inflicted on each other during our seperation closed me off completely.  U know how I am.  I surrounded myself with that wall hugely & I'm not taking it down.  I don't know how & don't know honestly if I want to.  I'm scared & am 100% not willing at this time to take that risk.  ----- comments or thoughts from all of you.

One other question - why do I put myself through this pain.  I know the wall is too high - before we seperated she told me it was like there was a mountain in between herself and me and she was too scared or unable to climb it.  So why do I put myself through this torture.  I was doing good with LC and was starting to move on and heal - but then I ask something stupid like that.  How can love be so easily switch from white to black - and why do I think it will ever become white again?

Cal644 - me too, I believe that black becomes white even if down the line.  We all torture ourselves and it's from the fact that it's an illness, so not something we can completely understand.  As I read your first post here, I was thinking how I experienced something similar, but I don't believe it was ever true.  In fact, I know it wasn't  It's almost like BPD's want us nons to feel like we're not good enough, so that we'll work harder and also for a bit of drama.  My exbfBPD hadn't told me he loved me for a couple of weeks I noticed last April, so I mentioned it to him.  His answer was "I'll tell you I love you when you deserve it".  I'll never forget that moment.  About 2 months later, he was a little drunk at a dinner party being held for my Dad and he kept interrupting me talking to my Dad at the table calling my name.  Finally, I turned round (I was so angry) to see what he wanted and he said in a loud voice "I love you".  It was ridiculous.  I also remember how after a short break we had, 3 weeks, he wouldn't let me touch him at all for about a month and by touch I mean just accidentally brush against his hand with mine or something like that.  It's almost like a thing to keep us at arm's length.  I think it's an attention seeking mechanism, but can't be sure of course.

The touching part is so interesting too.  For 19 years I would always give my wife three pats on the leg - meaning (pat-I, pat-Love, pat-u) when I turned black she would act like those three pats were hard punches to her face - wincing away or pulling away.

cal644 and happiness68--What you've both wrote is almost word for word my experience with my ex fiance. She was diagnosed as PTSD but quit therapy after 3 sessions. She quit couples counseling after 2 sessions.

I got the I haven't loved you in years line. So many years in fact, that her lack of love dated back to before the PLANNED birth of our child. At first, I refused to accept that our child was not born out of love, but as time goes on, I've taken emotion out of the equation and looked at the facts. The facts make a strong case that her lack of love was most likely the truth. That put a deep gash right into the middle of my soul that might leave a lasting scar.

In my case, she isn't going to be coming back. My feeling is that it is about attention. I gave her attention, but it was definitely less after our child was born.

It's interesting - she told me she never wanted to get married to me or anyone because of her past.  What the heck - after 19 years you tell me this.  I always showered her with a ton of attention.  But when I started spending more time with my daughter and her sports - she was resentful of that.  I do beleive she had some love - as much as she was able to give ... .  but not the type of love I so longed for -

My ex fiance told me very early on that she was sure she'd never be married. Possible red-flag

After 3 years, I asked her to marry me and she said yes.

After 11 years we never did get married.

cal644--I feel your pain brother. It gets to a point where you can't figure out if the lies were during the relationship or the lies came in the form of rewriting the relationship after the end. Or is it a mix of both? Or is what seems like a lie to us actually a truth to our exes brought about by distorted thinking and over reactive emotions? Can perceptions be right or wrong and can we be sure our perception is the correct one?

Having lurked these boards for many months, I've accepted that the answers to these questions isn't the answer. The answer is reflecting on your own behavior, positive changes, detaching and healing. Trying to make sense of anything else will have you spinning your wheels.

The attention thing can never EVER be enough you know.  I honestly believe that I gave my BPD a lot of attention and continued to give more and more, but it was never enough. I think the only thing I could have done was give up my job and be with him 24/7.  Mind you, there would have been something else about me by that stage.  By the way - not that I would have given my job up - it's just something that crosses my mind. 

I think this is a pretty insighful comment.

And really... .  I know this is exactly how I felt after the final event with crazyx.  I had to close myself off to him completely.  To continue in a relationship with him ---- ANY kind of relationship with him would have destroyed me completely.

These things do work both ways cal644.  I know my own behaviors during that twisted relationship weren't always perfect.  In fact, many of them were not pretty at all.  And most of that was because I was expecting emotional maturity from someone who is incapable of giving that.

They are incapable of many, many things and sometimes it just takes us nons a long time to get it through our skulls that we can't expect emotional maturity from someone who will NEVER be emotionally mature.  To do so, sets US up for failure and heartbreak.

It's valuable to continue to assess what she did, said, heard, etc... .  but always make sure to take a look at yourself too.  That is the way to get out of this state of mind you are currently in.  It's hard, but it's soo worth it.

turtle