BPDFamily.com

Is their perception of reality based on fantasy?

My uBPDexgf's favorite movie was pretty woman. During the course of our 3 year relationship it seemed as if her vision of us was fantasy based. The blending of a perfect family, the perfect wedding, home. Etc... .  She is the WAIF type in need of rescue, which I did not due very often, would trigger her. Toward the end of our relationship when she started splitting she told me "she knows what she wants now and she knows what she deserves". She told me she "wants to be rescued if she needed it or not". That she "wants to be spoiled whether she deserved it or not." Early on when we first met I told her I didn't want rescue her, that I wanted us to come together because we loved each other not because she needed me.

We were already separated on New Years eve but recycling. She  texted me that her favorite movie was on: Pretty Woman

The next text I get. I'm the Hooker... .  you rescue me... .  fairytale.

Does this make any sense?

Mine always said she wanted romance and a relationship like in the movies, she seemed to have this idea that all her friends had that and she wanted that with us. she essentialy put the bar so high that I could never reach it. any of life's hardships she couldn't face because it ruined her 'fantasy life' also she wanted to be the perfect family and as we were both on low incomes, it made it hard to have all the things other family's had.

 :)

So funny... .  that was my expwBPD's favorite movie and he would watch it whenever it was on.  I think you are right... .  it's a rescue fantasy our ex's had and it's based upon sex, isn't it?  They are the "prostitute" who's rescued from a money for sex-based life and given everything they ever dreamed of.  The movie ends funny, too.  He asks what happens when Prince Charming rescues the princess and she says... .  "she rescues him right back."    

tailspin    

I think this is because they don't have a self-identity so they see movies that depict what they would like their life to be like and they fantasize about it.  My ex's life never really followed any specific movie plot but she was quite far removed from reality.

Hey ... .  I like that movie.        lol

It seems like a lot of "movie love" is a fantasy built upon extremely unhealthy relationship-dynamics.  The "saving" of someone... .  the "rescuing"... .  the "healing".  How many romantic movies are about miserable dysfunctional people finally finding "the one that will change everything"?  Probably at least half, right?

I don't blame the people that write the movies or flock to them.  I used to imagine stories like that myself before I experienced all of this and got a better sense of what real life is actually about.

I remember talking to a friend of mine a few years ago (while I was still married, and long before I knew about BPD).  I told him, "It sometimes seems like the love I've had with my wife is like that of a movie, with all the passion, and the breaking of walls, and everything.  But it's funny - because in the movies you get to the point where they realize they are in love, or that they are rescued, or you kiss, or you get married or something, and then the movie ends.  It leaves out the part about the misery and the problems and the struggle never actually going away.  It's like our first little bit of time knowing each other was our movie... .  and the rest of our lives are now just some epilogue that never gets shown.  We still have our whole lives ahead of us, but it's as though our happy ending is already fading further into the past."

Now, my ex is 42 years old man. And the image he had about love and r/s was one that teenage girl would have. I know, because I saw some things he had wrote to himself (not journal, just some notes) before we met. OOH the longing and looks and yearning    Well, who am I to judge, my idea of love was to be abused. And then we watched the movie " Sex and the City 2" and he cried. He did. He had so much feelings! Well, who am I to judge, I cry when I watch Braveheart.

I always find this passage both sad and inspiring:

"They live in fantasy. That is your only reality. The job now for you is to break the spell that this person holds because of mirroring. You must become the undertaker of the post mortem, and find what it was in your persona that was easily manipulated by the Borderline. Was it your good guy persona? That's been taught to you from childhood. You found value in being a good child and grew up into a good man. That feeling of responsibility you have for others was manipulated. Eventually, if you do the work, you will become depressed about this perceived flaw. That is to be expected. It would help if you had a trusted confidante at this time who understood your drive to be responsible and good- so good that when someone called you bad you felt shame and anger and returned over and over again to the Borderline who gave judgment that really wasn't logical or realistic."

- 2010

You also might check out my post in this thread, which also discusses "fantasy": https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193860.0

During our LDR courtship, my exBPDbf sent me this.  I think it will resonate as a giant  red-flag that I missed.  I thought it was romantic.  I know better now.   

DELIVER ME (performed by Sarah Brightman)

Deliver me, out of my sadness

Deliver me, from all of the madness

Deliver me, courage to guide me

Deliver me, strength from inside me

All of my life I've been in hiding

Wishing there was someone just like you

Now that you're here, now that I've found you

I know that you're the one to pull me through

Deliver me, loving and caring

Deliver me, giving and sharing

Deliver me, the cross that I'm bearing

All of my life I was in hiding

Wishing there was someone just like you

Now that you're here, now that I've found you

I know that you're the one to pull me through

Wow!  No kidding that's a red flag!

Little did you know he identified with those words quite literally.

Expecting another person to be capable of forever being the source of your own happiness . . . in addition to being fantastic, it's just not a fair concept to trade on.

You are right Waifs do want to be rescued. At the beginning of the courtship you are the one who she believes will save her from the world and herself. And you do for a while – you may have rescuing tendencies – I know I did and my ex was also a Waif male.

The idealization phase is not based in reality. Even in healthy relationships we mirror our partners in the early stages – checking them out for likes and dislikes – we may even start liking heavy metal because they do! We all mirror, however in a BPD relationship we are placed on a pedestal.

Naturally, we all have flaws and no one is perfect – you may have tried to be better than perfect to please. Due to mirroring these flaws cause us to fall off the pedestal in their eyes. And ours to a degree. We react and the relationship starts to unfold and fall apart.

This relationship pattern certainly is not based in reality. The relationship pattern for our ex’s will continue without therapy. Our relationship pattern, that is, choosing unhealthy relationship partners will also cycle without work and therapy.

Why is it we didn’t recognize the fantasy play out?

What were we getting something from it?

Why does it hurt so bad now?

CLEARMIND: Answers

[Why is it we didn’t recognize the fantasy play out? I think we glossed passed it because of the infatuation

What were we getting something from it? Who doesn't want to find the "one"... .  Have awesome sex... .  "Love"(Even though now we know it was a bottomless pit of need)

Why does it hurt so bad now? Because we believed the "fantasy" ourselves. (we fell in love with ourselves... .  and when they... .  left we lost ourselves)[/quote]

Tonight, I almost started a thread called "Hollywood" to discuss the delusions that we are given in movies which are presented as if they mirror reality.  

I was thinking almost exactly what your friend said above.  I see all these movies that glorify love triangles and present the guy who has the girl at the end credits as the better man -- more deserving of the woman-- but the movie doesn't address at all her manipulative, unfaithful, boundary busting behavior.  The movie just focuses on the guy winning the dubious prize of an unstable woman in an idealization stage.   They all smile.  Credits roll.

Movies show the stable level-headed guy getting with the crazy adventurous girl who seems to be a complete wreck but is really fun and brings the guy out of shell (Yes Man, Larry Crowne, that Ben Stiller/Jennifer Aniston thing, etc).  I'd like to think there is a "crazy" fun girl who can also be a good partner which is what these movies can make you think.

But, yeah, even if the movies mirror reality to some degree, they are only a snapshot of a brief period of time.  They usually don't show the couple when they are in their 60s.

Forrest Gump (which I kept relating to 'a lot' during this relationship) shows a tragic, grueling progression over many years of a man trying to love a volatile, unstable woman.  I actually started calling myself Forrest (mentally) while I was with her.  It felt like the same relationship dynamic.  I just wanted to give her my love and she kept fleeing and I didn't understand why.  She'd give me a little dose of love and then bail on me again.  At the end, for all his pain in loving her, Forrest got a kid.  Even though that was supposed to be redeeming conclusion to the movie, honestly, I thought that was f--ked up too -- but also a realistic result of a BPD-like relationship.  Jenny:  "Oh... .  I was shi--y to you your whole adult life, I kept you on a string and you rescued me whenever I needed you to.  I know I never really reciprocated, but... .  I'm dying now due to my reckless lifestyle and here's some more caretaking for you in the form of a kid I didn't bother to tell you about years ago.  He's 'yours' even though I f--ked so many men during all my benders that I really don't know if he's yours but you are gullible so, here, take him."

My ex really liked to watch Disney movies and I went along with it.  After all, she was over a decade younger than me, so I thought I'd compromise and bridge the generation gap and so on.  But it was weird; when she watched them I ceased to exist.  I could not discuss anything, I could not get her to turn her head away, I could tap her on the shoulder and she would ignore me.  She had watched the movies so many times, she had them memorized word for word.  Now, I think for me, if I had seen something that many times I might be able to disengage for the living human trying to interact with me.   I think she was dissociating into a fantasy world to a time when her life made sense, a time before trauma, a time when life felt innocent and pure to her.

I mentioned this in a previous thread, but she asked me one time why we couldn't have a life similar to a Disney romance.  I explained that it was a movie, that it didn't show people having to go the same job everyday, that it didn't show all the minor annoyances of life, that people in Disney movies didn't have to do income taxes or make car payments or get migraines or have menstrual cycles... .  

She couldn't comprehend that.  So I tried a different angle.  I told her that I didn't see the protagonist female lying and leading on a bunch of men and hiding her cell phone under her pillow.  I said maybe that was the key to the fairy tale love: to be honest and faithful and respectful.  I was silently dismissed as she melted back into dissociation.

Just curious... .  Do a lot of adults watch Disney movies (other than with children)?  I don't think I watched one since I was about 8 years old.

In conclusion, I have been watching a lot of movies lately.  Escapism perhaps.  Now, I'm the one dissociating.  haha (sick laugh).  

Anyway, romantic relationships come up in way or another on just about every movie, which sort of is triggering and whatnot, but most of the stories leave me angry unless they are some kind of indie movie that makes you feel sick to your stomach by the end.  Those slightly less mainstream movies seem to deal more in realism.

And of course a movie isn't a movie without conflict.  So there will never be a movie about a stable loving couple.  It'd be boring, right?  But maybe not in real life.  

So, mostly I am calling BS on these dramatic love stories and romantic comedies as my eyes open more.

My ex also really liked "The Notebook" and "Titanic".  Again, I understand she is young and dreamy and stuff, but sh-t, I am not going to mail her a letter every day to prove my love to her (like the guy in The Notebook did) when she leaves to be with another man.  The reality is that writing my ex a letter every day would make her lose any respect she had left for me.  Yet in a movie that's romantic.  And my ex even thinks it's romantic in the movie.  In real life, she'd tell me to f-ck off and move on.

And again in Titanic... .  a love triangle.  Sure, the girl's fiance is a smug prick, sure Leo DiCap is the fun, dangerous guy, but the fact remains that she cheated.  Red flag.  Good thing the guy froze to death.  Better than spending years of his life with a woman who's looking for the next fun guy to go after.

My bitterness probably came thru in this post.  :)

Strugli, your post above gave me several good well needed chuckles in between feeling deep sadness today. Thank you! Did your ex really ask you why your relationship can't be like that of a Disney movie? Lol, and if so did you consider that to be a red flag? I laugh in good fun because I totally pictured my ex asking me something like that and I flashed back to my internal thought process of "did she really just say that?" :)

Yes, she really did ask that.  At that point the relationship was really spiraling downward (Spring 2012?).  I told her that I our life could be like that (by "that" I meant in terms of a good loving relationship -- not living in a castle and having fairies flying around with talking animals) but that she wasn't behaving at all like a Disney girl -- loving, affectionate, caring, empathetic, etc.  She went back into her own world when I said that.  To dissociate from the harsh reality of what I said.

So weird.  Someone who longs for a romantic fairy tale behaves in a way almost completely opposed to achieving it... .  

My ex had an additude that this is not something he has to work for. It is something it was my job to give him. He really said to me "i don't understand all your talk about working to make our r/s work. R/s is not about work, and it shouldn't be. It is rest-time. It should just be as it is, without effort. When I'm with you , it is my free time, and you want to take that away from me". So, question is, why I had to slave my butt to please him and fulfill his endless demands? If I asked him that, he would tell me of course I shouldn't do that, what an earth gave me that impression? If I acted like the r/s was my free time too and be myself, it leaded in endless critizism, belittling and demands. If I did not yeald, result was mindless rage and abuse. How an earth can someone even fathom what goes on in their heads, I surely can't. All I can think is that he was delusional most of the time.

[ I told her that I our life could be like that (by "that" I meant in terms of a good loving relationship -- not living in a castle and having fairies flying around with talking animals) but that she wasn't behaving at all like a Disney girl -- loving, affectionate, caring, empathetic, etc.  She went back into her own world when I said that.  To dissociate from the harsh reality of what I said.

So weird.  Someone who longs for a romantic fairy tale behaves in a way almost completely opposed to achieving it... .  [/quote]
Funny and yet tragic. I guess when my ex said she was a "Hopeless Romantic" red-flag I should have taken it literally and zeroed in on the "Hopeless" part.

Wow, this was awesome and super interesting, another  :light: on.


For my BPD ex?bf it was not a movie but the tale of the frog and the scorpion, a big  red-flag

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog

When we were friends, before dating, he used to say that he is a bad person. He used to say: ":)o you know the Scorpion and the Frog tale? A Scorpion is always a Scorpion and it will always be."

I used to answer: "But that´s stupid! Who wants to be a Scorpion and die every time? It´s destructive." "It´s not like that" he said: "Because I know that someday a frog will be strong enough to take me to the other side of the river."

I said: "Why don´t you just don´t kill the frog?" He said: "I´m not saying that I´m the scorpion... .   " I´m sorry for people with BPD, I guess it´s tough to have this mess and fantasy in their minds 

Re "Frog and Scorpion":  Interesting... .  painting himself as the victim when  he's the scorpion. :/  Unsurprising, but sad. 

Re Disney movies:  I love Disney movies.  Plenty of other adults do as well, and enjoy Disneyland.  Most of us who do so have a creative bent in one way or another and thrive on imagination.  I used to be very much like Giselle, in Enchanted, the Disney princess who comes into the real world but who eventually adapts and thrives in it.  I don't know that I'm that innocent any more.  I don't know that I believe in love any more.  And honestly, that is at the root of my depression right now.  I bought into the fantasy too, after giving up on it, I "found" it again... .  I thought after all I had gone through, I was rewarded with True Love, like in the Princess bride. 

I think my heart just broke right now with that revelation. 

My ex was my princess and I treated her better than I've ever treated any gf.  But she didn't treat me like her prince.  That breaks my heart everyday. 

I don't feel like I can love like that ever again either.

I treated my ex better and more tenderly than any person I've ever known.  And she treated me better than I've ever been treated in my life.  Then, in the final few months, she treated me worse than I've ever been treated in my life.

We were quite good to each other for a long time.  But, in the end, her constant line-stepping, contradictions, unending upping-of-the-ante, and double standards became apparent.  I called her out.  She behaved worse and sanctioned her abusive punishment behaviors against me.  It would soon be over.

Re fairy tales - my ex made it crystal clear in the beginning of our relationship that she did not like emotional men or overtly/classically-romantic gestures (i.e., poems, songs, flowers, etc. - you know, sappy, puke-in-your-own-mouth stuff).  I said that was great because I didn't like that stuff either.  Men also weren't allowed to cry, according to her.  At the time I met her, I hadn't cried in probably a decade, so, I figured no problem.  Little did I know that she would be the one to break that 10+ year dry streak for my tear ducts.

Anyway, this led to a very practical, functional, and happy relationship, for the most part.  She constantly praised me for everything I did and all the things I was - e.g., we'd observe her roommate with her boyfriend (they had a very sappy kind of r/s, the sort my gf claimed to disdain), and my ex would scoff at this and tell me how she "just loved" how I'm not like that and didn't buy her chocolates, etc. (For the record, I did do lots of things for her - romantic things too - but it would be in the form of weekend trips, gift certificates to day spas, dinners out, etc.)

So this dynamic was *strongly* reinforced for 90% of our 2.5-year r/s.  Then, at the end, all of a sudden I didn't treat her well.  She said she saw how other men treat their SO's and that what we had isn't "how she wants to live her life."  I pointed out that I had behaved towards her only in the ways that she'd encouraged for our entire time together.  I also pointed out that those things were good enough for her to repeatedly ask me for an engagement ring despite what she was now claiming was neglectful/abusive treatment.  She actually admitted that this was true, but raged nonetheless and retaliated with silent treatments, insults, etc.

I thought this was so bizarre, but I figured I could "be a better boyfriend," so over the next couple months I ended up spending almost $20k on various jewelry, designer merchandise, vacations, and other things for her.

These things intensified the abuse and were furthermore deemed "manipulative and controlling."

That's how my fairy tale ended.

GustheDog

My relationship was much like yours. We were amazing for about 2.5 years. Very affectionate both ways,

constant affirmation, lot of romance, trips etc... .  Towards the end she said all I tought about was me with no compromise. Let's not consider about $2k in designer hand bags, clothing, paying all of her incidental bills, entertainment for her and her daughter, bought us a $500k dollar, a $7k wedding ring.(still have the house and the ring) Which none of it means crap beacuse I really loved her. They point out all the stuff we didn't do to justify their needing to move on.

I remember during the later stage that she would point out other couples and say they were "cute" and why we couldn't be like that. I would explain that you're just looking on the surface and you have no idea what goes on behind and every couple has there *hit! She didn't see it that way... .  She saw the "fantasy"

Gus was yours a WAIF?

    Ive heard recovering BPD sufferers say, " The thing we crave the most, Is the thing we know least about".

She was 90% waif.  She did rage outwardly on occasion, mostly near the end.  But it was mixed in with tears and victim-playing antics.

My ex had a very, very privileged upbringing - she's essentially a trust-fund kid (and, at 27, still very much a kid).  I did not have these luxuries, and have worked extremely hard for my lot in life.

I searched diligently (or so I thought) for signs that she might be a "gold-digger" and/or that she'd be selfish/fickle/shallow/etc.  She did an expert job of convincing me that she wasn't materialistic, vain, or otherwise lacking in the values department.  She never expected anything, always lavished high praise for the gifts and affections I did provide, and would insist on splitting or at least contributing to purchases and expenditures in our r/s.

I told her many times that, despite an education and career trajectory that would provide me with a six-figure income at age 26 (and the prospect of a very comfortable life), I would never be able to furnish the sorts of extravagances with which she'd grown up.  I'd earned my degrees on scholarships and loans, and I have some heavy (but totally manageable) student debt.  And while I am on track to have a lucrative professional career, my annual income is not likely to ever enter the millions-of-dollars range.  

She told me not to be ridiculous.  She didn't care about any of that.

In our final few months, suddenly my student debt "scared" her.  I didn't do enough for her either.  She wanted joint accounts.  She wanted shopping sprees.  She wanted international vacations.  She wanted me to tell her that our future children could attend boarding school.

Other marked shifts in thinking/presentation became apparent as well.  Where my characteristics as an intelligent, logical, practical, deep-thinking, and sensitive partner formerly were regarded as Christ-like, they would later render me selfish, narcissistic, controlling, on the Autism spectrum, and emotionally immature.  The admiration and respect I used to receive as a result of having a demanding career with long hours became disdain towards a desk-jockey who "just sits in a little room all day."  She read my resume once and noticed that I'd been nominated for a Rhodes Scholarship.  She boasted about this to anyone and everyone - strangers on the street couldn't escape it.  Later, I was a loser and a failure because I hadn't actually won a Rhodes.  The list of ridiculous examples is nearly endless.

I ultimately gave in to a few of her demands, and yet her behavior didn't improve (it got worse).  I was angry at this point.  I told her quite frankly that this wasn't what I was led to believe a marriage with her would be like - that I thought she was above this petty BS.  I finally sat down with her and showed her a detailed budget that outlined exactly how we could and could not afford to live for the foreseeable future (next 5 years or so).  When she didn't respond particularly well to this, I just looked at her and said, "I guess you're no longer interested in the idea of marrying down, huh."  Her face contorted in disgust and she stormed off.

It wasn't all about money, but I feel distinctly taken advantage of in terms of the mirroring/seduction where she presented herself as this wholesome person who just wanted a quality life with a dedicated, hard-working guy.  Seeing her true colors really set me off.

But, as she told me herself, "Men love her."  One week after my failed proposal (that I never should have made in the first place), she was on a dating site looking for men in the 40-50 age-range.

If a woman is interested in that rubbish, I personally could not care less - go find a sugar daddy.  But don't you dare turn my life upside down in your insidious mission of emotional, bait-and-switch blackmail.  It's repugnant.

My ex told me a few stories from when she was pretty young of having fantasies (mostly from books and her imagination) of being rescued from where she was and the abuse that she was going through. It's no wonder certain people identify with these concepts more than others. It's one thing to relate to/be inspired by characters from a movie, another to base your sense of self around them, and then expect others to follow along.

I just searched online for, 'What's it called when you try to turn your fantasy into your reality?', and up came a bunch of fan-sites for Pretty Woman (just kidding).

Better that movie, I guess, than Godzilla.

This must been so hard. I can't imagine it   I have seen situations like that, and seen how some women really are like (propably having multiple affairs and same time sucking one man dry, then throwing away and finding new). I have always wondered what an earth men see in these women, but now I know: these women lie and then lie some more, and they believe the lie themselves. It must be same with men, you see a jerk and wonder what on earth do all those women see in him?

I have noticed here that BPD-women and BPD-men are not alike. Somewhere I read that BPD-men get more diagnosted as narsissists, and actually BPD and NPD might be the same disorder, it looks like BPD in females and NPD in men. My ex has so much narsistic in him I believe it might be true. BPD-men don't think they have to keep up that kind of lie for 2 years, they deserve to be "themselves". Mine managed to keep up appearance only 2 months. NPD I was with when I was young, kept it up for 6 months. And he managed to fool me only because I was so very young and naive. Thier sence of entitlement is so huge, you keep asking yourself most of the time "is it even true, or am I imagining things?" I know  my brains simply blocked some things I did not want to see. Now I see it all, and it makes it hard not to be angry every minute of the day, to MYSELF. He is what he is, he feeds from attention, but I keep thinking I should have known better.

   If you see it all, Im wondering how you dont have empathy for the whole situation. To make things worse, you are angry with yourself. Is this fair, do you really see it all? There are no winners or losers here. The wide range of emotions, and thoughts that you have, that you have no control over, could at least be spread evenly, for you the ex, and the r/s. One day you will have to put down the sword, because it is unsustainable. Anger is not a stand alone emotion, and its origin, has nothing to do with this r/s, regardless what you feel or believe. If you dont start putting these feelings in their correct place, and actually using appropriate emotions, when it finally boils down to depression, you will once again, be carrying, unjustly, self-inflicting emotions. This is your rinse, wash, and repeat... .  I wish you well, PEACE

Because I don't have any empathy. At all.

Not even for yourself?

Especially not for myself. Lets see... .  me writing here like 50 posts leaded you attacking me, and me crying for 2 hours. No, I don't have any empathy for me.

It was nice meeting you all.

Ta-hol,

I've read the messages on this thread, and I suppose I don't entirely understand why/how the conversation resulted in all of this.  But whether or not I understand it isn't really important... .  I just hope that by you saying "It was nice meeting you all" you are not saying goodbye to this board.  I have valued your posts and insights, and it seems unlikely your healing process is yet complete.

Please stay.  You're among friends.  Just talk it out.

    Im sorry, that you took this as an attack. This was not my intentions... .  I wish you well, PEACE

In Ta-hol's defense, I admit that this concept confuses me as well.

They have a disorder.  They didn't ask for it.  They neither think as we do nor are they capable of handling situations in a responsible fashion as we are.

I get that much - and I absolutely empathize with their pain and struggle.  But when someone has wronged you in deep, terrible ways, how are you supposed to feel?  I don't want revenge, nor do I wish any additional misfortune against my ex - but I don't have to like her, do I?  I don't have to excuse her treatment of me, do I?

I tried to address this another thread, but it got little traction.  So allow me to take a different, if silly, approach.

Let's pretend there's a disorder called PPD ("Pizza Personality Disorder".  PPD is a disorder characterized by distorted thinking and repetitious compulsions (just like BPD!).  Sufferers of PPD are addicted to pizza - they crave it, and, without it, they feel as if they might die - even though they won't actually die if they don't get to have pizza.  As you can imagine, PPDs are obsessed with getting their next pizza fix - they just gotta have it!

The problem is that, once they have some pizza, this triggers cognitive distortions that the people around them are evil and wish them harm.  In a great majority of pwPPD, eating pizza actually results in irresistible compulsions to murder the nearest person to them once they become triggered.  In most cases, this is precisely what happens.

PPDs are ill, and they are not malicious.  Their actions are based on repetitious compulsions and faulty perceptions.

If PPD was really a disorder, I believe that society would have little problem adopting the view that PPDs should never eat any more pizza until they receive treatment for their condition.  And PPDs are able to see that they've committed murder pretty much every time they've consumed pizza.  They don't wish to commit the murders; they just can't help themselves.  They frequently report that they hope to find the one magical pizza that doesn't trigger their destructive behavior, but they admit that, historically, eating pizza has always caused the same, deadly result.

Nor do I view this as really any different from someone with severe alcoholism who elects to drive while inebriated and causes injury or loss of life to others on the road.  Alcoholism is a disease - an addiction that many sufferers cannot break without professional treatment.  And, when drunk, a person's judgment is significantly impaired; alcoholics who drive drunk do not intend the harm they may cause - it comes as a result of a disease/addiction and the distorted/impaired thinking that is caused by such disease.

How much empathy are we to have for alcoholics who drive drunk, or for the hypothetical PPDs?

The common denominator is that each illness leads to compulsive behavior, and engaging in that behavior carries a very high risk of significant harm to others.

I think there comes a point when you have to hold a person responsible for conduct that, while it may be compulsive, is entirely foreseeable.  It's foreseeable that PPDs will murder after eating pizza.  It's foreseeable that an intoxicated, alcoholic driver will cause an accident.  And, finally, it's foreseeable that an untreated BPD will significantly hurt their romantic partners.

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strange, but my BPD wife's favorite movie... .  at least one of them is Pretty Woman.   She always told me of wanted a blended family, but treated my sons as second rate.   I have rescued her continually for 6 years.     her fantasy is one where everyone complies with her vision.  My oldest son is 22 and is his own person.  He is very respectful but not a push over.   She has a big problem with this.

Not sure where I am going... .  but the "Pretty Woman" thing was erie... .  

|iiii  wb. I have to wholeheartedly agree!

Now that we recognize we played the role of Richard Gere, what now?

We could all rattle on/vent for weeks, months, years about how we got 'sucked' into a dysfunctional relationship without fully understanding our role.

Why do we vent? Validation? Believe it wasn't us to blame? Avoid our own issues? Possibly!

Now to move past picking apart our ex's - what now? - how do move past the realization it was a fantasy for you both?

She views your children a threat, a holdover from a previous relationship with a  bond stronger than yours for her.  I didn't that long of a r/s with my uBPDexgf but she always made a point to spend time with my daughter and for a longer duration than I could even hold... .  

I agree with all that has been said.   My BPD wife is low functioning as far as I can tell.  Nevertheless I certainly admit I have faults - when she pushed, I usually dug in my heels.  When she said I neglected her it was because I felt as if she was using sex to control me.  She was;  nevertheless I may have neglected  - but not often.

I am really trying to not rail on her; rather, I am seeking validation.    I just need to know that I did not imagine all the things she did and said to me.

my uBPDexGF also mentioned not being very sexual, once a week or once a month type scenarios but with me i got it 4-5x a week, sometimes she'd drive 1 hour just for sex.  the r/s was still in the honeymoon phase before it ended and once right before the split she said she should hold out for a week but that she'd never do that to me.  she also mentioned she was always the one in control of her r/s and that with me she realized she wouldn't be (my daughter trumps everything and i set that boundary early on and stuck to it).  her episodes were management when my 4 y/o daughter was away for the weekend but i made it a point to tell her it'd be different if she was there... .  and i stuck to it and told her to go home when she'd start becoming emotional and saying she wanted to go home and not try to talk her out of it, she did leave but within 5 minutes wanted to come back and drop the issue.  when she returned, she said she'd never come back before.  1.5 weeks later she had moved on to her next target and said she wanted to be free and see other people

i also feel this was a 2 way street and you have to realize these women are more intelligent than you might think.  when they exhibit a behavior such as withholding sex, it's a test to see how you react and when they see it becoming battle on other fronts they will intensify this and other behaviors even more.  perhaps you're both better off not being together if this really was the case and she was the bigger person to let go and move on?

My ex withheld sex in the midst of complaining that we didn't have enough.  One day everything about me went from all good to all bad - really, it was August 1, 2012 - it is burned into my skull.

And, no, I'm not perfect by any stretch, but it's much less of a two-way street than you might think.  It's a one-way street when you give everything and receive nothing.  It's a one-way street when she decided to stop seeing me as all good and flip me to all bad.  And sabotaging the relationship and jumping ship like I meant nothing without so much as a discussion is a pretty one-way street, too.

Not that she has much control over these behaviors, but the flip-side of this is that, consequently, neither do I.

Withholding sex is more about control. pwBPD don't realize its a test.

You were simply objectified.


Your relationship, Gus, was more of a perfect union than you first may realize - you gave until you bleed and she took - perfect BPD/'non' BPD relationship - she chose you for a reason and you chose her for a reason. Maybe its time to look at why you felt this was OK.

All:

Yes my wife with BPD did suddenly split me to bad.    And she did take with not much in return.  I never expected gifts or money, or anything material, just respect and consideration for who I am.  It was as if me being myself was enough to make her angry.   We have been separated - only in different houses, not legally - for 3 and a half weeks. 

I am looking over my shoulder, waiting for an attempt by her to recycle the relationship.  I am not sure how I will handle it.