BPDFamily.com

Briefly for those who don't know my story; this was a tragic "true love" story with my FIRST love (then and now BPD to the max). We were together and broke up, recycled and then I would not have any contact with him, though he stalked me for 2 years before I married another man... .  we both married and divorced twice and during my second divorce I contacted him, resigned from my full time job, left a beautiful townhouse apartment and gave away most of my furniture to relocate to "be with him".

OK... .  it has been since March 2011... .  it was nearly November when I realized that "he was not right" and by Jan. 2012, I found bpdfamily.com... .  I really thought that we would "make it" and tried counseling and he continued to jump back down into the rabbit hole... .  unreachable.

This past August, he told me to "get the F out of his home"... .  we are not married, I have NOTHING in my name and he promised me marriage, to CARE for me and my son and to PROVIDE for us.

The dreams are shattered. The promises have ALL been broken. I am rebuilding my life and moving OUT.

My LEAVING PLAN:

To get my resume together, apply for jobs and get employment. Create savings and purchase a car. All the while, he will allow me to use his car and takes care of all HIS bills plus gas for the car and groceries. I cook, clean, take care of pets, etc.

We are having a TALK today.

I will NOT allow him to dysregulate, this is NO LONGER PERSONAL to me, this is a business arrangement and he PROMISED that he "would help me" move out. SO... .  I mentioned to him that "in order to do what he wants" (me to get the F out of his home), I NEED his assistance. He plays video games 12 hrs/day... .  has not worked outside the home for almost a YEAR. Has NO income, just savings that is paying for his needs (and wants like NEW computer, large screen tv, iPad, speakers, headset, games, etc... .  )

In this "TALK"... .  I am going to ask him to commit to keeping his promise to help me move out and keep at least ONE promise of helping in some house renovation so I can have my own bedroom. (I need my own space)

HAS ANYONE HERE had "the talk" about moving out WHILE living with pwBPD and can you advise me of what words and strategy you used as well as issues you avoided to accomplish a successful "talk"... .

A few thoughts include:

I will not tell him ALL, only what is truly needed AT THE TIME. I will NOT talk about BPD or his behavior or "us". I have already told him that "we have no relationship" and "there is no reason why we can't be nice to each other" and I hope to reinforce these ideas... .  

Wish me luck. (I have nothing to lose; I have already lost it all... .  I am hoping that he will be reasonable as he did not threaten to send me to a "shelter" this past dysregulation and "knows" that we are leaving (son and I) so I am "going on with my plans"... .  )

I found the best way to converse with ex during that time was to leave my emotions totally out of it.  It's not that he doesn't care, it's that he doesn't have the skills to care.  Once you can get that down, it becomes easier.  Save those emotions for here and with safe people like a therapist.

I'd gear it towards what he wants, he would like you and your son to leave, you will need some assistance to do that and lay out your plan.

1.  Your own space

2.  Use of the car

3.  You will help with cooking and cleaning

4.  ?

Then ask if he is agreeable to those terms or if there are any issues that he would like to bring up.  Don't let the pokes pull you into a drama, keep your cool and say you'll consider it.  Hey Real Lady, jump off a cliff and learn how to fly, respond with no emotion and say, let me think about it.  Keep the conversation short and sweet.

Read this over a couple of times... .  

Leaving a Partner with Borderline Personality Disorder  (https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles10.htm)

I am totally "there"... .  very business like and asking "what do you want"... .  and letting him know what I can and the few things that I am willing to do and NO MORE... .  better to say affirmative and NOT give them any "I won't do this" or "YOU WILL do this" statements. VERY mutual and respectful... .  I agree.


I feel sorry for him but they are his responsibility.


exactly.


Read this over a couple of times... .  

Leaving a Partner with Borderline Personality Disorder  (https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles10.htm)

Thanks... .  I am doing that NOW... .  

Good Luck Real Lady! Build your future for YOU! So that your next "love" is just icing on the cake.

Thanks ((SummerT321)) I plan on rebuilding my life and it will be BETTER than it was before I reunited with my "once first love who is BPD" At least I now KNOW what kind of love it was... .  a BPD "love"... .  maybe this was what I really needed to "get over him" since AGAIN, I cannot "have him"... .  I will be OK... .  I have had nearly two years of being a stay at home mom and working outside the home, running my own home, though wonderful will be taxing at first... .  

I so want to have an HEALTHY relationship one day and though I am NOT interested in any thing SOON, I do plan on dating after about a year away from him... .  who knows... .  I may find a wonderful man who lived through a BPD marriage and is looking for me.

I love your spunk!  You go Girl!  I'm sure you'll find a nice sweetie, just make sure he is working on his stuff like we all are doing.  :)

  thanks

After ALL this time, I am JUST starting to see, I believe, WHAT an HEALTHY relationship/love "is" really like. It is more like my FIRST marriage... .  he was not a bad man, not a hard worker but not mentally ill or outright "against" me in any way... .  he came to both my mother and father's funerals with his mother. I had thought that relationship was 'too much like friends' after having my FIRST love (passionate BPD relationship) and I WANT MORE than that now but see that going too far in the opposite direction (going back to uBPDso) was too far.

I am finding balance and enjoying BEING ME... .  I have so much to give and so much to DO in my life. I actually have a VERY HOPEFUL and POSITIVE outlook.

I just feel sorry for my soon to be ex uBPDso... .  I had loved him so much. So sad that he will not accept his illness and receive my love for him. I have withdrawn and I will leave with "I need space" and it will echo the boundaries that I put up years ago to him... .  

I will be the problem (in his mind) for our failing relationship... .  and I will leave without wanting to tell him differently... .  sadly bittersweet. I love him so much that though I cannot live with him, I will leave as the "bad guy" so he can go on in his delusion... .  

I have already told him "When I leave, I will NOT return to you and will have NO contact with you"... .  this is SET IN STONE as I KNOW that NOTHING good would come of any communication with him... .  if he sends an email or text asking how we are, I will respond ":)oing fine, hope you are well".

My sadness in this comes from not being able to live, love and care for the two most wonderful English Mastiffs on the Planet. We got the first puppy for him and my girl puppy for me but I won't be able to take her with me and wouldn't take her away from the boy puppy... .  this will HURT... .  it is THE most painful thing about leaving... .  

real lady - Ugh... .  I had to leave our English Mastiff behind, too. Sometimes I do believe I miss her more than my ex... .  

 I am so sorry to hear that... .   I hope that she is doing well. Do you see her at all? Have visitation? I am thinking about that for our two... .  

My girl is a 10m old reverse (fawn) brindle with one HUGE underbite... .  such a beauty AND little "stinker" at the same time, my girl but I won't be able to take her and I KNOW that I WILL miss them SO MUCH MORE than I will my soon to be exBPDso... .  

I love my puppies and they love "their momma"... .  uBPDso is going to have a "LOT OF 'XPLAININ" to do to them when we leave... .  I am concerned for them... .  they won't have me to care for them... .  

No - no 'visitation'. I'm enforcing as much separation and detachment as possible for myself in order to get my head together. I'll see her at least once more, when I return to the house to get the last of my things. She's a 10 year old fawn - goofy as can be. She had thousands of dollars in surgery last year to remove several cysts. She looked like Frankendog when we got her home. She recovered 100%. Yet, because of her age, it's likely I may not see her again. This was the case with our other dog - a golden who had to be put down during one of our "off" periods.  :'(

3 of the 4 times I've been 'ejected' from my own life, the Mastiff knew exactly what was going on. She would lean against me with all her weight, refusing to let me move as I was minutes from walking out the door. Sigh. Anyway, good on you for having a plan and moving forward. Better things to come... .  

Having pets with a pwBPD is so hard... .  I am so sorry about your loss and anticipated loss... .  


I really believe that our boy, almost 17m and 160 lbs KNOWS that I have "detached" and CLINGS to me... .  I am calling him "momma's boy" and I have to be careful that uBPDso doesn't get jealous about it but he has our girl puppy (10 m soon) sleeping in bed with him when I get out of bed in the morning.   

Did you feel that your expwBPD gave more love and attention to the dogs than to you? I LOVE my puppies but it is NOT healthy to substitute love for a person for a dog's loyal affection... .  he seems to be happy with it though.


I think having the puppies makes it SO MUCH HARDER for me to deal with leaving but it does not stop me... .  matter of fact, BECAUSE of them, I think that my pwBPD is taking advantage of me being here to care for them and NOT giving any thought to me NO LONGER BEING HERE to care for them. He tries to use GUILT on me and it just does not work. I do not feel responsible for what HE DOES NOT DO for his pets and when my son and I leave... .  I WILL MISS THEM terribly but I will feel NO obligation to him at all. It is hard to break free sometimes and we can lose alot along the way but sometimes it is the ONLY way.

real lady, have you set a moving date?

Good Luck Real Lady! Build your future for YOU! So that your next "love" is just icing on the cake.

This is great!  Exactly my thoughts as well!  :) 

Mine too  :)

Good luck! I have no advice to give because I think the advice already given here is excellent, but I wish you all the best. And when you finally leave, the worst will be behind you, it may already be.

I think that aiming for my son's summer break, when he will be with his father, when I HOPE to have a job and car and insurance and be able to find a place for us to live near his school ... .  I would LOVE to move out tomorrow, if I could. No time will be TOO soon. The latest is August, IF I can get the resources for it... .  folie


Sparkle13, thanks hon... .  my NEXT love will be ONE VERY LUCKY MAN... .  hope he is ready for a REAL LADY... .  lol... .  


Thanks ((mitti)), we ALL KNOW that the WORSE WILL be behind us once we do not have to have any contact with our pwBPD... .  

I have really emotionally detached and keep reading that us nons, should communicate as "unemotional and BORING" as possible with them and I have found this to BE SO HELPFUL while I am still living with him.

He doesn't want (to work on himself and) a relationship with me but he tells me news from his computer, laughs at things and shares them with me, WANTS to tell me ALL ABOUT his "gaming" (12 hrs/day) and to ALL OF IT, I say "Uh-huh"... .  and if he DARE say to me "WELL< YOU DON'T SOUND INTERESTED IN WHAT I AM SAYING? I would have to bite my tongue to keep from saying "REALLY, WHAT give you THAT idea?" or "NO Sh*T Sherlock. (that gives away my age.) in the snarkiest tone possible... .  instead I think I would respond more safely with a pointed FLAT TONE "hmmmm, really?"... .  (LOL... .  just as good but less snarky; just PROVES the point instead)

I am just very thankful that I did NOT marry him THOUGH I feel that he OWES ME so much that I do "not have right to have"... .  NEVER AGAIN.

No, not really. In fact, when she was in pushing me away mode (or the death spiral, as I call it), they became MY solace... .  MY only reciprocated emotional outlet. No, for her the love and attention shifts to whatever internet misfit du jour gives her the desperate and victimized attention she craves. To be fair, she doesn't neglect any of the many various critters in the house, but she doesn't seem to give any special attention or attachment to them out of the ordinary. Actually, part of our 'life plan' was to eventually operate a rescue/breeding/training center for German Shepherds. So much for that plan.

Real lady,

It sounds like you really thought things through.  I left stealthily though I was not being physically abused.  The last fight we had was scary with lots of screaming about how I was trying to kill him and how he planned to buy a big gun to protect himself from me.  Also, lots of his typical "I hate myself, my life, the world sucks, and I need to end it all, but I won't kill myself b/c I promised my mom I would not commit suicide while she is still alive."  

All of this was deeply disturbing, even frightening to me.  I have been detaching for a long time, and we have been separated in same house 4 months.

So, again, I left stealthily and we didn't have "the leaving talk." https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193737.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193737.0)

I feel relieved to be out, but the today and yesterday I began to feel some guilt over how I left and took pet while he was at work.  I did it that way to avoid a huge final rage and also was scared he would prevent me from taking the cat.  I have been painted very black, so I didn't expect any "talk" to go over well, but still I'm feeling guilty that I should've given him the courtesy of "the talk" and letting him know the day I was leaving.  I don't know... .  

I wish I had wisdom for you, but I'm wrestling now with how I left.  I wish you success and peace.  When do you plan to leave?  And how do you think he'll react?  Is he a rager?

If you are planning to not leave until August its still important to use some of the tools here to reduce the drama. It is sounding kinda drama filled at the moment.


What actions are you taking to detach from this drama that's ensuing?

Me too... .  my puppies love me and I really HATE IT that I love them so much and will have to leave them... .  I don't think that they will be happy about it at all. Our older boy whines when I go to bed at 9 p.m... .  sometimes in the middle of the night (for me, I think) and then is SO happy to see me in the morning... .  I don't see them as much now but care for them alot.


my pwBPD went to college for Veterinary medicine; a real ":)r. Doolittle" of sorts... .  very good with animals, SUCKS with people.

Sounds to me that he threatened you with physical assault with that... .  I would have left too... .  


I understand, my pwBPD also "made a promise" to his first wife and says "he is sorry that he did" and would rather that he had died instead of us reuniting... .  so sweet...


Glad you are out; emotionally detaching is just a given in that kind of chaotic, emotionally draining BPD situation... .  I have REALLY been detached for several months; in the past two, I have felt more energized and empowered to leave... .  it must be time.


 Good for the pet, you did the right thing... .  


. I feel the SAME WAY and don't think that any "talk" would have been received and come to any good for you at all. What he understands or is willing to learn about HIS FAILURE TO KEEP A RELATIONSHIP is not our responsibility. We can only "teach", we can't make them LEARN.


Try not to wrestle with what you cannot control... .  he has "made his bed" per se... .  you cannot change his bad decisions and BPD behavior can you? I know that I cannot change my pwBPD's behavior... .  before I learned RADICAL ACCEPTANCE (DBT term from Marsha Linehan) I tried and failed and he dysregulated and I was more miserable. I learned to GIVE IT UP... .  I hope that I CAN be ready by summer vacation when my son is at his fathers OR I can work EXTRA HOURS while my son is gone and we will move when he gets back. He has been WANTING me to "get the F out of his house"... .  I will look confused and NOT PAY ANY ATTENTION to any negative or obstructing statements... .  I will call the police and have them "escort me out" if necessary.  Yes, he rages. He will feel badly abandoned and I will have NO response to it. He has made his decision, I have made mine... .  it is over and I am "on my way OUT". folie  He is a LOSER... .  

Update: the uBPDso, I prefer to call him pwBPD as he is no longer a "so" or significant "other" to me. I care for him, his pets and household and have NO relationship with him.I have been sitting and hugging and kissing and crying over the puppies saying "I love you so much and I wish I didn't, it hurts"... .  pwBPD asked "why do you say that?" I responded, "I am not allowed to watch them grow up and love them or be with them, it hurts too much to love them"... .  he said "they will be miserable when/if (don't know which word he used) leave"... .  and I said "I know but I have nothing to do with it, it is not up to me".

He has been gaming 12 hrs /day for the past 3 months at least. When I leave he will not have the "luxury" of that but I have not mentioned that. He will have to shop, cook, clean and do his own laundry plus take care of all of the animals. This is HIS CHOICE. I feel NO guilt or responsibility to stay for the animals though my girl puppy was bought FOR me, I cannot and wouldn't take her away from her "boy".

There is NOTHING that he could say or do short of him being put into the hospital or being critically ill that would "keep" me here. And if I would choose to take care of the pets and him and not move out right away, it would ONLY be with the WRITTEN AGREEMENT that he would provide for my son and I "if" anything should happen to him (name on deed on house, joint account, savings, etc)... .  ONLY then.

I WORK NEARLY EVERY MOMENT to NOT THINK of the loss of love, my broken heart, my sadness, my having to go back to work, begin ANOTHER household (MOVE) so I am taking ONE DAY AT A TIME and focusing on LEAVING and breaking free from the BPD craziness, I am done... .  

Working on resume today... .  got an interview with a local newspaper to discuss the importance of MENTAL HEALTH awareness and the help that is available to those who do not have resources to pay for counseling. I hope to BREAK THE STIGMA of MENTAL HEALTH ILLNESS AND TREATMENT with this... .  just a brick in the wall, I know.

I am no longer giving MORE of myself, my time or my love to this man... .  I have given him everything and he has broken nearly every promise to me due to HIS MENTAL ILL NESS.  He has "it made" right now... .  he is losing it all because HE WILL NOT SEEK MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT. I am taking care of myself and my son and we will move out and MOVE ON... .  and I will NOT look back.

Real Lady    I love your success towards interviewing for a newspaper to help with mental health awareness, such an important topic now a days.


This doesn't sound like a sustainable situation. What are you wishing to hear from him?  Regret or an apology, guilt?  I know it's a kick in the craw what he promised and what he reneged on.  If you choose to stay to build up some savings, you've got to play it close to the vest or find other digs.  I only say this because your safety is priority one.

                      

Hi Rose Tiger... .  actually I was venting a bit but revealing how I truly feel; sorrow at potential loss of MY puppies, etc... .  they were not meant to be "digs" as much as maybe just a "provoking to thought" of what HE has done and how powerless I feel in it all and that I am "doing what HE wants" by leaving... .  it was and is not my first choice. IF he has truly decided to GIVE UP on our relationship, there is NOTHING that I want to hear... .  I just want him (and me too) to be happy. I told him so.

UPDATE: We talked for over 5 hours straight last night. He kept on saying "You are wanting to leave" and with each one, I gently reminded him, that it WAS NOT MY IDEA and I would prefer to NOT have to but only am planning it because he told me to "get the F out". Leaving the ball in his court. Clarifying that I am only doing what he wants (so he should be more careful in "what he wants" from me)... .  holding him responsible just a little bit for his part of the relationship. I cannot carry it, cannot cure it and we cannot go on like this and I have shown him that I am tired, frustrated and if he gives up, I give up too. This may not be what a pwBPD wants to hear but this is how I have chosen to speak with this, at this time.

All in all, he suggested two (little, petty but 95% of OUR problem WITH ME) things that I "do" (how I communicate) and how he dysregulates over it as being our problem... .  so I was asking him "I don't understand how this can be a deal breaker, I hear your pain and frustration and I hear you saying that if I did not do these (little) things that we could have a MUCH better relationship?", he said "yes"...

I asked him if I could make a suggestion for what I thought was needed in order to "make this change in my communication style"... .  "We need to go to speak with a qualified, professional counselor". HE AGREED that he would go for "couples counseling" but would NOT go for individual counseling because he "did not need it". He didn't NEED to "go to a shrink". With his intellect AND BPD I can see why he would NOT want to go... .  

So I will be looking into "couples counseling" and "just go" and see what happens, if he just wants to "sit and bash me" I will tell him that IF THIS IS COUPLES COUNSELING, I would like to stay and participate but if it is going to be "we are here to straighten her out" then I would like to leave the room and let you go into great detail about me and then I would like to be interviewed as well, alone AND THEN we can come together and actually HAVE couples counseling.

I don't know what to think about it; I am neither hopeful or really happy about it. I am thankful that at least there will be another person who will validate him and me and maybe help US find ways to communicate without putting ALL the responsibility and blame on me. I am glad in ways that he "cares enough" about our relationship to give this a try... .  it is a big step for him.

Yes, the interview is an awesome opportunity and I hope to have a few "soundbites" that I hope that she will QUOTE and use in the article. I like "we should take care of the gray matter between our ears AT LEAST as well as we care for our cars, computers and bodies... .  it is the ONE THING in our lives that does ALL the work and it deserves maintenance".

Sorry, RL, I meant digs as in another place to stay.  English really is my first language, although it doesn't sound like it sometimes.  :)

Couples counselling with a disordered person is ... .  well, it's interesting.  I'm trying to think of some benefits that I saw when ex and I took that on for awhile.  It gave ex a platform to tell the story of him.  He and the male counselor talked about all sorts of guy subjects, that had nothing to do with 'us' or our r/s.  It started out with the usual whine sessions of why I am horrible.  By this point, I'd validate and then say I have no intention of giving up my likes, it took me two years of counselling to recover bits of myself and I'm not stripping off pieces of me anymore, sorry.  The counselor may have seen that as not cooperating/compromising.  Do not care,  the jump through hoops never stopped with ex, there was no pleasing him so giving up music I like, tv I like, clothes I like, books I like, it was not going to happen AGAIN.  It took me two years to recover from giving up this, that, and the other, until I was as empty a shell as he was.  So if you can handle having 'the list' come out, and he will make it sound pretty bad, if you can keep strong and not get pulled into the drama.  It's not easy.  Your guy is not willing to look at his stuff.  He is not willing/capable to do so.  The benefit overall gave me further insight into the brokeness of my husband and further validation that I needed to detach.  That was the benefit.

The communication advice on the staying board is stellar.  That will help you keep it together while you contine to make plans.  That education helped me to learn how to calmly communicate with ex with no abuse.  How to keep the peace.  That is worth it's weight in gold.

   :) no problem... .  thanks for clearing that up. 


I hear you. I really do not want to go to counseling WITH him... .  so I didn't show "enthusiasm" in it because it was a suggestion that I made that HE has to commit to... .  he verbally did not show commitment other than to say "call her". If he thinks that it will be a "this is all her fault and this is what SHE does and what SHE needs to change", I will clearly state that he needs to talk to the counselor ALONE because I have heard it all and am not willing to sit through it in counseling again. I will then offer to have time alone with the counselor to "share how I feel" if the door of opportunity opens.


I expect this as well... .  I hope that they can "bond" a bit and he will trust the counselor... .  even "against me" in a triangulation (read definition) (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0) just so he will open up and talk.


I have already told uBPDso that I am "detached" and don't "care" about some of this drama... .  without a counselor I won't even talk about it... .  I would really like to take a book and DETACH (when I am NOT in the conversation) to show that unless REAL progress to communicate goes on, I am NOT interested... .  and that I am detached and he will "have to work hard" to "win my heart back"... .  he told me that the "ball is in my court"... .  I said, "I'm not playing anymore"... .  "If you want to play, you have to find me".




That is what I am happy to find in the past few months... .  LOWER stress... .  he even said that after 5 hrs of talking that the "puppies felt that the stress lowered in the house". Our older puppy is CLINGING to me and whines (talks) to me all the time... .  he knows that I have "detached" and doesn't like it... .  after we talked for 5 hours, HE seems to be "more gentle in his speech to me"... .  I am remaining cool and detached, showing NO sign of "weakness" or "change of mind"... .  I have NO new information to consider therefore I am standing and will stand in the "detach, ready to leave now" position. He has said that the "puppies will miss you terribly"... .  I said "is that all? I have cooked, cleaned, shopped, taken care of puppies AND you and ONLY the puppies will miss us... .  I see".

Hey RL, detaching means to keep your personal feelings to yourself.  It's validating his thoughts and then keeping your feelings reserved.

This is not an example of detachment.


He has said that the "puppies will miss you terribly"... .  

This would be an example:  "Really, do you think so?  You might be right on that."

Do you see the difference?

Oh and in therapy.  Ex would say, I didn't like when she was upset over her stepfather dying, she was crying and couldn't sleep.  I'd say, It's true, I was upset, I was crying and couldn't sleep and that bothered you.

Validate but that was it.

Ex would say, I don't like when she does such and such.  Me, I understand that you don't like it when I did such and such.  Period, end of statement.  In my thoughts, it was a different story.  My thoughts were, that is too bad, that is me and if you don't like it tough.  Also had to keep those thoughts from showing on my face.   lol

Begin by finding a therapist who has experience with BPD.  It makes a huge difference. 

I can't say that it helped, I spent thousands in couples therapy while the ex was lying to both our faces about his cheating and his willingness to work on things.  Well, okay, it helped me, LOL, but eventually ex didn't want to go to her any more because he felt she was taking my side. ><  "I always feel like the villain!  She's responsible for her end of it!"  Um, I'm not the one cheating, lying, punching walls, strangling my partner, asking for money for my expensive hobbies, playing videogames all day, refusing to help around the house and get a job... .  

I have moved after the breakup and found a therapist who specializes in BPD and have made great strides personally.  Interestingly enough, my ex has done much better without me than with me--He terrorized me into doing what he wanted, but what he wanted was not good for him.  So in my efforts to "help" all I accomplished was losing four and a half years of my life in mid-age, losing a sickening amount of money it will take me years to get back, crippled my credit, and got myself traumatized. 

I also paid for him to see a therapist on his own.  The T was wise enough to be able to be a safe place for the ex, but not get conned by him, and that turned out to be very healing for ex. 

I see, thanks RT   I forgot that I was reacting to an inance statement by a pwBPD for a moment then. I guess I am just tired and would like SOME validation myself, I realize that it will not likely come from him. sad.


Yes, I do... thanks again. To one time that he said this, I replied "Yes, I believe that... .  you are right, they love me very much". 


Same thing was said to me by pwBPD for both mom and dad's passing... .  I apologized and THANKED him for comforting me as he had and left out how he "dogged" me about "getting over it". I understand that his mother died quickly and was not told until AFTER she was in hospital, sick and then dying and did not get to see her after she had only gone into surgery for a minor elective surgery and did not recover. He is not close to his dad and doesn't KNOW the love of a parent as I have. 


  I would just reply "I understand, there are things that I dislike about myself at times too... .  sometimes I just have to VENT, grieve like with my parent's passing, it is a unfamiliar path to me".


Thanks again... .  am reading, thinking and WILL work on this... .  this will help much more than just "shutting up"... .  *) No explanation, almost JUST a repeat that he said such and such... .  nothing more. I get it... .  

The counselor I currently have has studied it and seems to confirm what I have been doing, what I have been learning and how I respond to him. It would be IDEAL to have a qualified DBT counselor, I have asked for one for couples' counseling (he is calling it this, I am just going along and setting boundaries for myself and letting him "try" it with some hope but no real expectation overall)


I expect the same but no cheating on either of our parts so it is NOT anything serious at all... .  I am a little bit afraid that the counselor will be holding back chuckles of absurdity when he/she hears his "complaints" about me... .  lol


I expect the same... .  exactly.


    That's wonderful.


  I am sorry for your loss, I and others here have lost so much... .  getting out of a relationship with a pwBPD is OURSELVES may be our only reward. I have myself and that is ENOUGH for me if I don't have to live like this the rest of my life.


I am VERY glad to hear that... .  a very rare but possible success story... .  thanks for sharing. 

You've got it.  |iiii  No matter how we say it, no matter how loud we say it, they can't hear it.  Anything to do with our feelings, our thoughts, it is not going to get through.  I spent so much effort trying to fine tune how I spoke to him, and nope, nothing worked.  All he cares about is how he feels.  Period.  So that is all you have when you communicate.  You can't make a duck bark.  You can say to him, I hear you quack quack quack and that is understandable because that is how ducks think.  It is soothing to him and it keeps the peace.  He can't meet your needs, save your feelings for here, with a therapist and your support network. 

so true... .  mine is a bit psychic and seems to "find" things and attributes "what I think" to my silence about things. I show an "it is ok, I am not concerned" attitude about things but he WANTS me to be concerned and quickly gets irate over my lack of enthusiasm about HIS game, etc.


Great "sound bite" for me to remember... .  thanks. 


No I understand that he is NOT meeting my needs or cares for my feelings or thoughts. I will save it for the counselor. I have a call into the "head" counselor who will hopefully "match" us with someone in our area that we will go to. Honestly, I am going FOR HIM... .  I don't even truly see that he will use this OPPORTUNITY to help us or himself... .  just to vent how I am BPD, crazy, and disrespect him constantly... .   Last May, when we went to a counselor, it was a "bash real lady" situation, like every other counseling with a BPD... .  I don't care to "go to couple's counseling"... .  I told him that this should focus on "saving our relationship" and lead to marriage or it will confirm my leaving... .  I am kinda "black and white" on this issue... .  

I hear your resolve.  |iiii  Since you are planning to hang out for a bit in this situation, what would it hurt to be enthusiastic about his interests, like gaming? I'm thinking for this time, to make things as pleasant as possible, listening to his interests and being enthusiastic might be a plus.  They are so childlike emotionally, if you can wrap your mind around this, it could help you weather these next few months.

I was thinking of this JUST this morning... .  RT ... .  the problem is that I am limited TO gaming because other than music, (he plays guitar but hasn't touched one but for a few minutes in the past 2 years and I was encouraging him to get it out and PLAY) he hasn't thought of doing anything else in the past year since he has been "home" more. I was thinking that if I could "be enthusiastic" to watch him for 30 minutes that maybe, he might become more open to spending time AWAY from the computer... .  don't know.



Oh I agree... .  the only other thing that he talks about or seems to want to hear from me is the daily news... .  


I think that this is really a good idea; I just am a little concerned that he will try to SUCK ME INTO his world and then I have to "get away" to get on with LIFE around us. I don't like the feeling of "being part of it"... .  I will think about it though... .  thanks. 

RL, I am a geek, I actually met my exBPD playing World of Warcraft (I know six couples who met and are happily married doing that!) and he introduced me to other games.  I don't play other games though.  For me it was fun to just hang out with him and watch him play through the more story/character driven games that are out there.  If you like, shoot me a PM with a list of the games he likes to play, and I can steer you to some that might be more interesting for you.  :) 

Do you take the dogs out for walks and such?  Good exercise, and gets those endorphins going.   |iiii  Another fun thing that I liked while with ex was experimenting with pies.  I started with homemade apple pie and worked my way up to banana cream.  It was like science experiments in the kitchen and my daughter enjoyed helping.  I got the idea from the movie Waitress, she invents all these pies like "I don't want Earl's baby pie" while she is pregnant by her total jerk husband.  Of course, hubby was thrilled with homemade pie.  Win, win.

Thanks Changed4safety; nice chatting with you on PM... .  when we were "young", I hung out with him and watched him play some video games, some games we played together and then we played D&:) with friends... .  he has ALWAYS been VERY into games... .  it is his one outlet of "bad emotions" and "feeds his ego" where life has disappointed him ... .  but I on the other hand... .  went on in LIFE and I graduated from college (he did not) and had a child (he could not) and am raising a very special young man, taking care of him (*uBPDso), his two mastiff puppies, a cat and two birds... .  I don't have time to work outside the home for income... .  which I must do soon... .  

When I first reunited with him (2 years ago), he said NOTHING about game playing... .  after a few months he "hinted" that he hasn't played his game and then started playing about 4-5 hrs/day on his day off work... .  and then he stopped working and is HERE ALL DAY to play his game. In the past 4 months he has been playing nearly non stop... .  up to 15 hrs a day... .  9 hrs a day AT THE LEAST (when he had business to take care of)... .  and ALL THE WHILE, I take care of him and his pets and his house and my son and I live with them while he has his face in his computer. It is NOT a life that I want, ever wanted and HE KNOWS that I want NOTHING to do with it... .  if he tries to make this "a point of contention"... .  then it just "paints me more black" to allow me to leave/him push me away... .  very sad but this is what HE and I have chosen.

If his addiction doesn't show him that HE NEEDS HELP, then nothing that I will be able to say or do will cause him to want to make any changes and I will NOT continue to live like this... .  I will only be staying now if I can "have some more space" (office and separate bedroom), have transportation to take my son to school... .  I can work AND go to school, and just sleep here... .  this is our life with my pwBPD... .  it sucks. I have told him that he is ":)*mned lucky" to have me... .  and if he "loses" me again, it will be for good... .  I mean it.


Oh yes, take walks with my son but uBPDso does NOT walk the dogs though he promised to walk the boy when we first got him... .  he is now 17 months old.


  I have become MORE interested in cooking and preparing savory meals and working more on desserts, etc. He LOVES food so it is a WIN WIN.

My ex used them as an escape and to "be someone else", to hide from his reality.  Games can be great fun, but like anything else, you get obsessed with them and they become unhealthy.  It sure does sound like your H is addicted. 

Yes, he IS addicted and has ALWAYS had an "addictive personality" (he says so) and I see that clearly more than ever now. I DO NOT come between him and his "gaming". I have given him AMPLE chances to "make it up to me" for ALL THE HOURS that he had spent prior to my "total detachment". I don't see how anyone can have relationship with a person who is so addicted to gaming (or substance may be the same), it takes TOO MUCH TIME away from the relationship to "have" a relationship with him.

I told him that "we don't have a relationship"... .  I could only see it IF I were AS ADDICTED to the game as he is. I won't get involved because I actually HAVE a life that I want (wanted to live with him) to live without him if he is NOT ABLE to have relationship with me that is healthy... .  I am really NOT counting on it but I still see myself living here for a while... .  He admits that he "needs me" even though it is not due to the relationship. He's "grown accustomed to my face" and LIKES that I am around but really doesn't have a clue that I am "not really here" anymore.

I can NOT find my resume that I used about 10 years ago and could just "freshen up" SO I have to start from scratch.  so Oh well... .  the interview with the newspaper and resume are my PRIORITIES this week.

The interview (on Mental Health today) went well and if you are interested, please PM me and I will send a link via PM so you can read it; yes it will have my REAL identity and so I will NOT be posting a link openly. It went very well and I can't wait to see it... .  maybe in THIS coming Sunday's paper.

I realized that I have really dealt with a LOT OF LOSS during this two years with my uBPDso. I have lost my mother, my father, I turned 50, I "lost" my income and car and "freedom" of sorts. I lost my "music" and the ability to sing and perform publicly, for now... .  I hope to get that back. I HAVE LOST A LOT.

I have lost ALL hope that he and I will EVER be ABLE to talk about what "the problem" is between us and that is even leaving BPD OUT of the conversation. Even the slightest, "I would like to make some plans for summer vacation" comes up as being a blame and accusation that something that I have done makes it IMPOSSIBLE... .  he NEVER seems to TRY to see the "big picture" but immediately GOES TO BLAMING... .  

He has asked me, in the past, "What is wrong?" sometimes with a bit of sincerity and a touch of compassion... .  but more often than not, it was stated with a "with you?" or "now?" added... .  to these questions I looked at him and told him that I appreciate that he is concerned enough to ask but I would tell him that "I don't feel like being yelled at about it" and that would END the conversation. I could not cry or share my feelings especially if they had anything to do with him for more than a minute before he turned the conversation around to "him feeling hurt over how badly I disrespect him"... .  wow... .  I stopped trying. I have kept my thoughts and feelings to myself and realize that he may never, without extensive therapy, ever understand and accept how HIS BEHAVIOR has killed my love for him.

He has recently said that he would go to couple's counseling (which I don't feel would do anything but CONFIRM my understanding) which MIGHT SHOW him that unless HE is willing to work on himself, there is NO HOPE for a friendship between us. I am certainly NOT thinking that it will bring anything "good". I would only go if he REALLY WANTED to go and just the other day, he dysregulated a bit and said "I am NOT going to couple's counseling, you can call and CANCEL it".

It is really very sad. The one person whom we have loved the most (most likely, it has been him for me), and whom we would do ANYTHING for is unable to have an HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP with us. No matter HOW MUCH WE CHANGE... .  I am convinced that we could NEVER change ENOUGH for them... .  they would always be pointing at us and blaming us for something; that is how it is with my severe pwBPD seems to be. OH, he has moments of laughter, he looks at me and smiles but I KNOW that these are ONLY MOMENTARY glimpses of the man I love, not the man who has taken over his life and ruined our life together. I will miss the man I love when I leave... .  but probably NOT more than I miss him now and that is a consolation to me.

To "have him near me physically but NOT have him near me emotionally", has crushed my spirit, shattered every dream that I had believed HAD come true and totally ZAPPED ME OF ENERGY to continue trying. As he has said "I AM DONE"... .  I have "given up" on trying to reach him, trying to LOVE him, trying to help him be happy... .  I have myself, I love myself and I am happy... .  by myself and will be even MORE happy alone again KNOWING that the love that my pwBPD and I had shared WAS love for a short time and then it "went down the BPD rabbit hole" and disappeared. Gone. I will be happier for coming back to him and finding this out even though the TRUTH and having to face the reality of BPD has been the most devastating realization and hardest thing to accept in my life. My sorrow seems endless but my happiness is NOT dependent upon him anymore so I am hopeful that though my sadness may continue for my losses, my happiness will increase because I "let go" of him. 

Just a bit of venting... .  oh and another thing... .  has anyone had this happen... .  

I have had an email, my "cutsy" name (that relates me to him) on an email and I recently created a NEW email account with MY name and he "had an issue" with it. I told him that I have ALWAYS loved "that name" (my original email) but that I needed something more personally ME and more professional for job hunting, etc. He seemed to take offense. I have changed my forum names, etc to minimize "this name" from my world because HE has SUCCEEDED in pushing me out of his life and home... .  and I can no longer "see myself as HIS"... .  I sadly told him so and that is ANOTHER and main reason for creating a new email. He had very little to say but WANTED to dysregulate and I walked out the door when his face started to contort in reply to it... .  He was ready to say something when I looked at him and then decided it would be best to turn and leave... .  he commented "OH, now you leave, I was just going to say"... .  I looked and him and interupted with "Yes, it looked like you had something VERY loving to say to me... .  if you would have seen a response on my face as I see on yours now, you would not want to hear what would come out of my mouth any more than I want to hear what is about to come out of yours... .  I am leaving". And I left. He said nothing about it when I returned. I didn't "take any bait" but "let it go"... .  just like him, the relationship with him and my life with him... .  gone.

@real lady,

do you think they really need mental treatment or a therapist?

is it possible to improve if they just focus on doing the right thing and spend time implementing eckhart tolle readings and meditation and just being in a positive r/s?

Well, I would answer this question with a question... .  do they WANT to be mentally and emotionally healthy or continue living as they are right now? They may NEVER feel that "they need HELP" or mental health counseling. If my uBPDso WANTS me to be happy and live with him, then I THINK THAT HE NEEDS TO BE IN THERAPY... .  NEEDS IT... .  


BPD is a MENTAL and EMOTIONAL DYSREGULATION disorder... .  even the MOST intelligent BPD's can be in massive denial and I will say that FOR THE MAJORITY of severe BPD, they are UNABLE to detach from their feelings to allow their logic to SEE that "if they just could focus on doing right"... .  also, there is an issue that Narcissism is comorbid and therefore will NEVER admit that "they are doing wrong"... .  

Radical acceptance

thanks for writing real lady.

she does want to improve her mental and emotional well being and does want to stop living a life where she just breaks up every week with someone as she says.  but i guess if youre saying that they need to address the symptoms of BPD otherwise they won't get too far, then you're right.  its not just a matter of trying to live a life of doing right, they need to acknowledge their system of logic and understand how it works for and against them?

i think my ex does try to focus on doing right and evidenced in her desire to read stuff like eckhart tolle and other motivational and spiritual things, but am i just being hopeful? i sometimes feel like she grasps it for maybe a couple hours or a day, but then completely neglects what she might have learned.  or maybe she thinks it doesnt apply to her or makes her vulnerable.  i think sometimes when she reads certain things her defense mechanisms are already on and rather than read it with an open-mind, she reads it analyzing how it makes her the victim?

yes, i dont think my ex ever felt she did anything wrong.

exactly... .  you can read alot more about how they suffer with many of the articles on this forum... .  so helpful.


I have known several SEVERELY mentally and/or emotionally ILL persons who were VERY spiritual/religious. It is one way of trying to "focus on being a good person" without really working on themselves... .  ie if "God forgives me, therefore I am OK"... .  denial. big time.


oh yeah, I can see that... .  I don't have to deal with the "religious" part of it; my uBPDso is agnostic/atheist and he is STILL in denial. Basically a very good but very hurt person with a physiological MENTAL dysfunction that makes relationships nearly impossible.


no remorse, lack of empathy and compassion, not being accountable for their behavior in hurting others.

**update** my uBPDso has "tried" the past two days to "talk" by starting to argue, or better said claims that I am "trying to start an argument with him". We have seen each other MORE than 5 hrs/day... .  today it will be only 6 and then I am going to bed. I had to tell him that "I didn't want to talk" about something while we were driving yesterday. He didn't like it but finally STOPPED talking about it without a tirade. amazing.

I still have not finished my resume... .  will do that tomorrow at the library... .  need to be AWAY from the house a while.

Real Lady, So, I was just scrolling through this post and focused on your post on the loss you have experienced in the last year. You know there is a true grieving process associated with loss right? Denial, anger, depression, acceptance... .  where are you?

You lost a job and along with that financial security and independent identity, your freedom with the loss of your vehicle and income,  your home, your friends and support system, your familiar surroundings and possessions  that gave you comfort and you gave your love and trust to someone who hasn't fulfilled his part of the bargain. WOW, that's a LOT to accept and deal with.

I've got no advice... .  just validating the tough circumstances you will need to overcome to move forward. 

With losses, I think that I am at "different" places in the grieving process.

Mom's death and turning 50: acceptance

Dad's death: (compounding with Mom's)... .  still struggle in moments of anger, depression... .  RADICAL acceptance and living with it.

SO with BPD... .  just came out of depression in the past 3 months or so... .  more "despondent" now with any thoughts of him and "us".




Resigning from my work and  willingly giving it all up to be with him was NOT the hardest UNTIL he started showing BPD signs... .  then I cried that I had "made the mistake of my life" and put myself and my son through unnecessary pain and grief. But I NEEDED TO KNOW about our relationship and in ways, I will never "be sorry" for returning to him... .  I will just be much happier and have the NEXT part of my journey when we leave.


  thank you LNW   I appreciate it.

It has been QUITE exhausting and "getting on my feet" requires more than "lifting myself up"... .  finances, health, son's needs, SO's health, puppies, etc... .  MORE responsibilities that "tie me down" and I cannot let them. The LEAST priority always get dropped... .  getting mail, fixing certain meals when he can put something into the microwave, etc. I TAKE MORE TIME for me and I go upstairs to watch TV so son and SO talk about his "game" while he plays. SO dysfunctional, barely existing and he doesn't seem to care... .  THIS is his life and as far as "he sees it", he "has it made" except for when "I am at fault" for upsetting him... .  I do feel STUCK, like a slave, like a person who was taken prisoner. I constantly struggle with my thoughts "thinking" that I am "with him" and caring for him as I had always wanted. I don't work and can take care of my son and two precious dogs and other pets. What REALLY bothers me and leans toward the "prisoner" feeling is that he has NOT been cooperative to assist me or allowing me to redecorate to make some room for ME... .  I would like a desk in another room. I would like a beading station for my jewelry making (THAT was a GREAT loss when I relocated. I had a AWESOME "work bench"

Going to talk to my counselor; look up some jobs and get on the move with getting a job soon.