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Another question that has been going around in my head... .  when people with BPD act self aware is it an act to keep you or for that moment do they actually realise they have a problem and feel upset at the hurt they are causing you?

My ex had many moments where he appeared completely aware of how much he had hurt me, said he was not any good for me and I should find someone better and leave him or he was leaving me to enable me to run away and find someone better.

There has been times in the past where he has asked me, what I thought his problem was and where he could go for help, he has stated everything he touches he destroys and in seriously arguments in the past before I realised about BPD and have accused him of being sick or nuts he would not always deny that.

Do they have real moments of clarity? or is it all just an act to manipulate?

In my experience it's real. Though I suppose the effect of these expressions of self awareness can feel manipulative.

My ex knew very well that he had severe problems. He'd been in years of therapy to try and sort them out. I have no idea what the 'official' diagnosis was. And the therapy had ceased by the time I got together with him.

For me the confusion came because part of him believed that his therapy had 'cured' him - and by the sounds of it it had helped with some major FOO issues - and yet he clearly still had substantial amounts of unstable emotional stuff going on - as I discovered to my cost! So I suppose I am not sure how seriously he took his ongoing problems - or if he preferred to believe that all his actions since his time in therapy should be classed as 'healthy'.

And I realise that actually the whole picture combined to feel sort of manipulative - though maybe not so much manipulative and more simply 'dangerous'. Because I was very impressed by the idea of all the work that he'd done on himself and he was very good at 'therapy speak' - so I believed that I'd found an unusually emotionally healthy and available man (pause for ironic laughter).  But then he treated me strangely and badly. And I was left very, very shocked and confused. I think I'd been pulled in by the belief that someone who seemed so aware of their own issues would be inherently 'safe' to have a relationship with. Sadly this did not turn out to be true !

What was your own experience with this aspect of things?

WWT.

My observation of this, based on what I've experienced and now understand about BPD, is that times like these are just another manifestation of a pwBPD's shame and most likely a form of manipulation.  My ex often said things like this too, but based on what I now know, I will make 2 observations:

1) Assuming this was about all your ex said, which was the case with mine, notice how there's no APOLOGY in there.  A person who truly recognizes they have hurt another person will apologize and acknowledge the effect their actions had on the other person.  Shame is not empathy.  

Which leads me to the 2nd point:

2) I feel statements like these from a pwBPD are still mostly a form of manipulation.  Who wouldn't feel sorry for a person who felt like they were so bad they needed to tell someone else to leave them or leave that person in order to protect them?  If you have rescuer tendencies, which I do, this will draw you in further.  You love them so much you won't even leave them if they tell you to, right?  In this case, they feel better because you don't leave AND they've made you more co-dependent.  

I'm not saying their actions are deliberate and orchestrated  like I've made them sound, but this type of manipulation is what they know and what has worked for them, time and time again.

Ruthy 

I think, unfortunately, we got a lot of both.  Admitting they have done something to hurt us would require them to acknowledge something is "wrong" with them; this is unlikely to happen.  I think your ex saying he wasn't "good for you" was also a form of manipulation on his part.

Some of their manipulations are behavior patterns stemming from their mental illness; we are manipulated to lessen their anxiety.  Much of what we experienced was a cruel and deliberate attempt to push us away also caused by their extreme fear of getting too close to the object they "know" will ultimately destroy them.  BPD is an attachment disorder characterized by intense feelings of abandonment and engulfment.  In a disordered person's mind these feelings become facts.

The moments of clarity you ask about aren't the same moments of clarity you and I experience.  For someone with a mental illness, a moment of clarity is accompanied by an intense sense of shame followed closely by feelings of worthlessness and emptiness. 

Keep posting and keep asking the difficult questions 

tailspin

I really wish I knew.

I always thought they were real, and they gave me hope.

But then I read something about how many BPD people read so much self-help and therapy stuff and just parrot back what they read... .  so now I don't know anymore.  It's unsettling.

Thank you everyone!    :)

Whatwasthat - Yes I certainly feel his self awarness moments, made believe there was hope for change and made me think he was more in control of his personality than he actually is. 

sunrising - That is a good point, he very rarely apologises. He feels sorry for himself in his statements but not for me.

From reading the replies, I agree his comments appear manipulative, if this is intential or not I am still not sure but from understanding what has been written here I gather the self awarness moments are further BPD behaviours rather than a sincere realisation of what he has done to cause upset.

I started off believing this too.  That my ex had more control over her emotions than she exhibited.  As I've come to understand more about BPD, I know this wasn't the case.  Sure, she could have curbed her temper more at tiems.  What I now know, is that I only saw fragments of the pain, anger, insecurity, shame, rage, etc that she has inside her.  We don't understand how they feel.  It's unimaginable for  a non-BPD.


It would not be fair to call the manipulation "intentional".  My ex said many times "I never meant to hurt you".  I now believe her.  THey don't set out to hurt anyone, it's just that their feelings about themselves and the resulting behaviors (manipulation being one of them) are so engrained, it's all they know.  :)on't take it personally.  You were manipulated and discarded, but you could have been ANYONE and it would have been the same result.

In my experience, the self-awareness was real, but just like with everything else, it could change in an instant.  She absolutely knew that something was wrong with her (she was the one made the decision to go to an ineffective therapist for a year).  However, this never translated into behaving appropriately when she was upset because she flips the switch and becomes "the other woman."  She even said as much when I would ask her if she still loved me after our fights.  Her answer would be "Yes, but not when I'm mad."  Their emotions dictate the "truth" for them.

Yup. THis would happen to me too. She would have these super crystal clear understandings every now and again. But they would just be fleeting. What the heck.

I guess my answer to this is 'who cares?'. I think the more important question is how did these moments of realization impact you and why are you still thinking about them?

For me, it falls into the entire cycle of abuse. My ex would go into crazy rages, calm down, and then have these lucid moments. For me, it gave me hope. It gave me hope that this person wasn't the crazy raging lunatic she was the day before. It got me stuck.

And now, I still hold onto that hope, like somehow that lucid person is going to come out of the woodwork.

It also served to confuse, disorient, and distort. She didn't do it on purpose, I don't think (again, who knows and who cares). But, the impact on it was a perfect recipe for continued abuse. Moments of clarity would provide hope, would provide an explanation, would provide some relief to me from the guilt and shame she normally made me feel (because normally it was always my fault). But the behavior never changed. It served to suck me back in for more abuse. And now, these memories of her lucid moments still serve as a mechanism for me to continually beat myself up. I keep thinking of those moments and think 'maybe I was the crazy one', 'she seemed so lucid and together, maybe I DID cause the crazy abusive rages'. And on and on and on.

It is part of the cycle of abuse. Think about what the impacts of this are on you. What parts of this cycle is continuing in your mind?

I think they have some awareness that there is something wrong with them but its very painful for them to accept it ,so they use denial to protect themselves. My BPD gf used to say "I dont want to hurt you with my crazyness, therefore ,I withdraw."

I did not think much of it when my ex text me saying she was not right,needed help and could not cope. She said she was crying in bed and I thought it may have been her period,silly of me. I spoke to her for a few minutes and suddenly she said I had cheered her up. When I would ask about it the next day I was always told "just leave it".