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This weekend was a music festival at a small private campground that is owned by a mutual friend of my ex's family.  I had heard my ex might be there, as it was a gathering to honor a friend of ours who had passed away from cancer over a year ago.  I decided I was going to go regardless if he was there or not - I had not seen him since February, and had only a few brief phone/email connections with him that he initiated.  I feel I am at the Freedom stage of detachment (https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/05.htm), have fully grieved the loss of my relationship (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=138154.0), and felt that I would handle any encounter with grace and emotional maturity.

This was a weekend long event, with local bands and friends camping, in a serene spot in the woods where I live.  It's about 10 minutes away from my house, and a place where my ex and I used to hang out with our friends a lot.

So, Friday night, I went there to find he had told a friend that he wasn't going, as he didn't have the money to get in.  I was somewhat relieved, and proceded to have a great night.  I did go home and spent the day at my house, planning on going back Saturday evening to listen to the bands.

Later in the afternoon yesterday, I got a text from a friend who said she had stopped by the campground, alerting me to the fact that my ex was there.  I then got a call from my ex's 18 yr old daughter, who I still keep contact with, and see every so often (he has 3 kids, one who lived with us when we lived together).  

She was calling me from her dads place, asking for a phone # so she could contact him, as he was not there.  She was moving in with him, and she was nervous because she'd never been to his place before, and said there were 2 people inside, neither being my ex.  I gave her a phone # where she could try and get a hold of him, and continued on to the festival.

I got there, it was already getting dark, the music had started, so I slipped in, and moved up towards the band.  I was focused on getting to a place where there would be no distraction of seeing him, right up in front of the band.  It was great fun, and at some point, I turned around to watch a 2 year old dancing, and sure enough, there was my ex sitting on the floor right behind me, watching the band.  I walked over to him, leaned down and said hi, petted the dog we got when we were together (he took him when he left), and moved back to my spot in front of the band.

About an hour later, I get another call from his daughter, saying she was now at my house, and wanted directions to get to the campground.  I walked over to my ex, handed my phone to him, and asked him to talk to his daughter.  He spoke to her briefly, handed the phone back to me, and asked if I could help her with directions.  So I did.  She got there, I flagged her in, and got her parked by where her dad was set up.  She had a girlfriend with her, they were cold and hungry, so I gave them sweaters and some food, and sat them down by the band.

The music was great, good times with my friends, and no issues with my ex.  By the end of the night, I was sitting next him on a bench, surrounded by our friends, as if everything was "normal", and he was just someone I knew, but was not attached to.  It somewhat surreal.  I have such a history with him, but it felt like he was just a person that I knew long ago.  No emotional attachment, just peace.

At the end of the night, I said goodbye to his daughter, and to him.  He looked at me and said "I owe you one" (for helping him with his daughter), and I left.

I understand that NC may be needed for a period of time right after a break up in order to get the focus back on ourselves.  I did that for a few months, however, NC for life limits the ability to mature and confront the triggers that effect us.  I'm all about confronting those triggers now, and neutralizing them instead of letting them control me.  That, to me, seems to be the way to move beyond the aftermath of our break ups, and promote personal growth.

So many members here struggle with NC.  I read about it every day, how NC is the only way to go.  I really believe that the goal should be CC (controlled contact), working towards being able to respond in a mature way, keeping emotions in check (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=64749.0).  Otherwise, it's almost like being in some kind of limbo, living in "fear" of any contact.  Is that really the best thing for our progress?  What "fears" do you have regarding possible contact from your ex's?  How do you think you can get over those fears and take control over your life again? It's not about NC - it's about the fear behind any form of contact.  Let's talk about it.

Congratulations to you for handling this so gracefully! I think it really does prove you're in the Freedom stage, which of course is what all of our goals are. It makes sense once we reach that stage, we should be able to be in their presence without a negative emotional response. NC doesn't need to be a lifetime decision, and I could see where it may someday actually be a hindrance to personal awareness and growth.

What a wonderful and hopeful post this is for us. I'm sure in the early days of your breakup, this wouldn't have seemed possible.

 

M

I agree... .and that is partially why I posted this, as an example to those who are in the early days of their break up.  It's about creating some goals for yourself - short term and long term.  I know when we are in the throws of emotion and the fear is that if they contact us, we either will put ourselves in the way for further "abuse" or let our emotions take over and decide to get back together with our ex's.  I went through both after my initial break up, so I do understand this. 

I wonder though, had the tone on the Leaving board been one based more on CC instead of NC, would I have matured more quickly, having seen others constructive examples of their struggles and successes.  I think we tend to "mimic" what we see, so if there is a lot of examples of folks being angry and upset, and shutting down over their ex's, it almost makes you feel like this is the norm.  I know it's a process, but I think we can raise the maturity level on this board a little higher than it is, at times.  I hope I'm not sounding judgmental, as I really do have everyone's best interest in mind.   

Great post "want2know" & something I must address. I live in a small village & we still have mutual friends. I used NC for my own protection but do now feel that its becoming a burden on moving on. I have this feeling now of just wanting to see my exBPDgf with her new bloke, get it out the way & get on with the rest of my life. I know it will bring back some pain but I can no longer make decisions based on whether my ex is there or not! "The only way out is through" dont know where I read this but now I know what it means.

I understand what you're saying. It is like NC is at first a tool to help you detach and heal, but then the danger becomes NC being the goal itself instead of the tool helping you achieve the goal, which is to heal and move on with a healthy life.

M

Hi ellil. thats exactly it - NC has become a religion to me & its taken over my movements in day to day life, its now become unhealthy. Time to bite the bullet, face the music & move on. |iiii

|iiii   I get it!  Confront the trigger - neutralize it.  It's kind of like the whole theory behind behavioral therapy and systematic desensitization.  It's a way to overcome phobias and anxiety.  You have to be ready for it... .relaxed, in your Wise Mind.

Hi want2know, when do you know you're ready for it ? I feel like a prisoner in my community & its from my feelings/movements. Surely at some stage you must face it.  I do envy the people who live miles away from their ex partners & in some cases hundreds of miles, but that is not me so I must do what I can to move on. This post is really relevant to me. :)

I'm not in the freedom stage yet, still just surviving, but this post is a good one. Do we REALLY have freedom if we are working hard at avoiding our pwBPD? That seems to set limits on our life for sure.

I am just wondering if your ex will now try the "recycle"? Keep us posted.

Good question - for me, I had to feel emotionally regulated.  I don't think you need to be fully detached to be able to have controlled contact.  It's more about being able to assess your emotional state, and react reasonably.


Indeed, I agree.



See that's the "thing"... .it doesn't matter what he tries to do, if I am in control and know what I want and is healthy for me.  There is some initial discipline that needs to be practiced along with assessing what is good for me, and with time, it should become more engrained as a "normal" reaction to any form of contact - not being emotionally bound to any fear of being recycled.

Good point, if you are coming from a healthy place and know what's good for you if he tries to recycle you can respond in a healthy manner.

Ok, you're my new role model.  |iiii  I know what I need to work towards!

lol  Very good.  Let us know what happens if the opportunity arises.

I wanted to follow this up with the fact that I am not looking to initiate contact with him, unless there is a reason.  For example, I got a call today from a friend who wants to buy his camper that is still at my place.  So, I'm going to send him an email asking him if he'd be willing to sell it and for how much.  Simple.  What is to fear about that?

I think it helps to think of these possible encounters as business transactions.  How would you treat someone you had to do business with?  Courteous, looking out for your own needs, but somewhat engaging with control.

Want2Know - that is awesome!  Great story!

Do you mind me asking if you were NC with his daughter for a while when you were NC with him?

I am not where you are yet.  It tripped me up to read that you sat on the blanket and he was just someone you used to know.  I want to get there.

I do have fear.  Of what, I do not know.  Maybe that I am not strong enough yet to not allow the abuse (even though I know I am).  Part of me is sad that my former best friend has not tried to contact me.  And part of me is glad but fearful that he will.

I was, but then she contacted me, and since she was not really my trigger, I was ok with engaging with her.  Plus, she's only 18, and a lost little girl. When she contacts me, it's usually because she has no one else who is responsible to go to.  She just made contact with her father this past week.  Before then, she hadn't spoken to him or seen him in over a year.


That was the surreal part, no doubt.


Maybe you are strong enough, and there just hasn't been an opportunity for you to prove it to yourself.  I don't think you need to go looking for contact, but thinking through the emotion behind the fear, and then debunking any myth that might be generating that fear, can be helpful.  Almost practice scenarios in your head that have a "good" ending, with you knowing how to respond in your gut and following that lead.

Thank you, want2know.  I will try that!

Been a rough week - wrote about it in "I know I should not care, but... ." post on this thread.  I was feeling way stronger until that happened.

Seriously, you just handled that with such grace and confidence.  It could not have gone any more perfectly - and that was totally because of YOU.  I am positive that if he pulled any crap, you would have handled that just as gracefully.

You rock, Want2 Know!

 

I believe so.   *)

I just found this song for any of you old school folks who were around in the 70's: Chicago: Searchin' So Long (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA4xQPfVopI)

Great lyrics, and how I'm feeling now.

Great feeling and great song lyrics!   |iiii




This really struck me so I'm going to think about this one, as well... .

I do feel so - circular - in my own mind lately.  I read over and over how pwBPD will come back.  We haven't spoken since the first couple days of August.  It's never been this long.

I guess it bugs me that I will never know if I was strong enough... .

Going to mull on this.  Sorry for taking over your thread.

W2K:

Really glad to see this thread.  Some of you may know that I've been experimenting for the past month with being back in touch with my uBPDex.  A little different than your story W2K, in my case I reinitiated contact after 10 months of complete NC with an offer of friendship.

I meant it.  He has accepted the offer and we are now doing something we never did before, when we "fell in love"    with lightening speed -- we are actually getting to know each other.  Covering lots of different ground, exploring and acknowledging differences, pushing through some difficult tender places that don't have to do with our r/s, but rather about fears that each of us have about the world, where we are at this stage of our lives, and so on.

I know there are others who post here who have had much less favorable experiences with attempting a friendship than this has been so far.  I think one reason this may (emphasize may) be viable is that I really did first impose this long period of NC.  We aren't trying to immediately switch from the patterns and expectations of lovers to those of friends.

Even so, it is challenging for me.  Now I have my own fear of abandonment, thanks to the traumatic end of our love relationship, and so the better it gets, the more I care, the more anxiety I feel about whether he can sustain this. But after a good 8 months of reading about BPD and understanding the dynamic, I also feel like my mind can (sometimes only barely) hang on and manage reactions that previously would have really devastated me.  We need space from each other.  Today, I can give and receive that space.  After we broke up, I would have experienced that as a profound rejection & step back from the "merger"/soulmate/cannot be without you quality of the initial r/s.  Now, I can see it as healthy no matter what the parameters or definition of the r/s.

It's early days of the experiment yet and maybe this will go the way of the many bad reconnection stories I've read here.  I am hopeful, though, that this can be different because of clear boundaries, good understanding on my part of what this can and cannot be, what he can and cannot do, and honest willingness on my part to be "just" friends.  Actually, "just" friends doesn't seem like a good description, as friends is way more than what we were to each other before, as it turns out.

I do feel like this is a species of controlled contact (CC) because of the very intentional, firm boundaries I've had to set in my own mind, and the need for clarity about what it is, and isn't, and cannot be, at least not till he is in quite a different place than I think he could be by this point.  And yes, it has given me back a sense of agency, of compassion, of putting things in the place where they genuinely belong.  I care about this person & he cares about me, even though he really, really struggles with where to put that.  Being permanently exiled from each other just doesn't feel right, and doesn't feel consistent with the fact that we both tried, and that he didn't do the terrible fleeing and breaking on purpose.  He himself was as hurt as I was by the demise of his hopes that we'd be happy together as partners through time.

I did wait to do this until after his replacement relationship (though that word really isn't appropriate since she was before me as well as after me ... .I was also her replacement) ended.  Not sure if he would have been a willing and available participant in our reunion before this -- maybe, not sure.

I also should say I can see the need to guard against his enthusiasm.  He needs limits and boundaries to feel safe with me as a friend I think ... .but the irony is that the more I provide and honor those, the more he trusts me, and then, you can see that he starts wondering why it cannot be more.  That will be a challenging dynamic as we go forward.  As will making sure there is still room in my life to be open to someone who can be a lover and partner as well as a fascinating, compelling friend.

hey want2know,

very gracious behavior on your part. i think there are members who, perhaps rightfully, would have said heck no, not my issue.

which is why i kinda think it depends. detachment is the goal i think. reading your story, im reminded of my own detachment, and it still shocks me that i ever reached it.

i think "NC" is better for members for whom virtually any kind of encounter with their ex is akin to a relapse. i never really like to encourage one way or the other, because a number of members have reported rounding a corner after repeated contact.

personally i didnt have a lot of choice. i was replaced, and that was it. my ex probably would not have responded to any contact and i certainly wasnt going to offer it. that said, i think if she were to contact me, depending of course, on the manner of contact, i might reply. i might not. its not really in my code to ignore anyone, even though i understand exactly why its recommended, and i dont really disagree, but im detached to the point where contact would not seriously impact me. i think though, its extremely difficult to detach to that point. there are members who can be triggered, perhaps after years, and for them im not sure contact would be the best thing.

anyway, i dont really believe in no contact as a one size fits all. i do think for those that are somewhat detached, and their ex is just going nuts with contact, some allowance of that might ease things, might not. for me, "no contact" is best when their is little choice, and its mostly the member's. when the members is doing the contact, and hurting as a result. probably best for them not to make contact.

I think the bolded part above is an important point.  I did create boundaries and do understand what our relationship can and cannot be. 

There was also an intention behind my contact, instead of it being an emotional response.  The intention was to create a space I could be comfortable in.  I knew he was there, and to be completely avoidant of him wouldn't have created a free space for me to roam and enjoy the evening, so instead I chose to acknowledge him, and interact on a limited basis.


Yes, it's important to know there are other options, ones that are more compassionate, and don't have to lead down any roads that are not healthy for us. 

Truthfully, if my ex behaved in a mature way, I don't think I would have any problems. But I seem to be a strong negative trigger to her. The last time I emailed her, she ignored me for several months and then was much more cruel than I deserved. I understand it well enough to know that it's b/c of her illness. But it's still not fun to deal with. I usually like to stay in touch with people and usually like to stay friends, so NC has been very difficult for me. At some point I'd like to have "controlled contact" with her. I cared for her and her daughter very much. I believe I could handle limited communication, but then I ask myself, what is the purpose? She never really knew me, and probably never will. It's very, very sad to realize that. Maybe if someday she is open to it and somewhat friendly. But maybe it just won't ever happen.

I don't know if I fear us meeting b/c we lived 50 miles away from each other in a big city. She's not nearly as willing to venture out as I am (Hermit/Waif) so it's unlikely we'll bump into each other. I'd recognize her daughter b4 I'd recognize her, as much as she changes her looks. I honestly think I would be ok with it. I would just say Hi, and get on with my business. I'd be more afraid I'd give her a look which would reflect my extreme disappointment and confusion toward the situation. No doubt a look she wouldn't like. Though I understand more now maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I can feel compassion for her without thinking there's a darn thing I can do about her/for her. That's a big step for me.

That is a good question.  If there is no purpose, or your ex does not initiate contact, then there may be no need for contact, as with anyone who you might have or had a connection with, at some point.  In most cases, CC would be if you have a purpose to communicate, or if they contact you.


I was thinking about compassion as a core value, and how it relates to NC/CC.  Core values are the fundamental beliefs of a person. They are the guiding principles that dictate behavior and action.  

The problem I see with NC and having compassion as a core value is it creates some internal conflict, or psychologically speaking, cognitive dissonance.  Our behaviors and actions do not align with something we value.  In order to correct this, we start developing thoughts to resolve the conflict that can be accompanied by feelings of anger, guilt, dread, or embarrassment.

Most NC situations are in direct conflict with demonstrating compassion.  If you have compassion as a value, you can't pick and choose who you have it for.  Therein lies the conflict.  We are going against our internal standards when we choose NC.  I think that creates the mental and emotional struggle that can lead to a victim mentality as a defense mechanism.

What I mean by this is, for example, say your ex contacts you, and you've chosen no contact as an option.  In order to justify the NC, one may get angry or go into blaming mode as a defense mechanism to resolve the cognitive dissonance.

This is one reason to consider Controlled Contact.  It better aligns with our core values, and can help us to progress towards healing vs. keeping you stuck with emotions and behaviors that ultimately can hinder our detachment and personal development.

Great post, made me log on just to comment on it :). I always had a hunch that NC was not the end all be all of the healing process and would in fact hinder us in some type of way. Which is why I guess I never truly went the NC route, maybe I knew this subconsciously... who knows? I am still LC with my ex and the thought of her calling me or texting me doesn't give me that weird feeling in my gut anymore and I've been around her one time since and it honestly wasn't bad. And there were no attempts of a recycle afterwards and I honestly wasn't expecting one. I know I am not fully detached, but I feel as though I am at that point where it may be nice to hear from/talk to her, but it's not something I look forward to and or something I fear anymore.

Good to hear from you!  :)

I think the more success you have with controlled contact, the more you can understand that it's not so "scary", and doesn't have to lead to an unhealthy interaction.  It takes some self-discipline and a good understanding of the intention behind the contact.

For example, if I hear my ex is spreading a rumor about me, I wouldn't call him to confront it.  Instead I would tell myself that I know the truth, and those I truly care about will understand that he has some resentment or anger that is initiating his action.  If I didn't have self-discipline, or understand that the intention to contact him is based out of my own insecurity, then I might call him and confront this with the potential for a negative interaction.

So, understanding the purpose of the interaction is an important aspect of controlled contact.

hi w2k,

thanks for this post. i actually read it a few days ago and have been thinking about it! to be honest, when i first read it, i felt angry. i think it's just kind of where i am in my grieving process.

it's maybe a little different for me than a lot of other people, because my pwBPD was a long-term friend after a breakup, so there are already some boundaries between us that is making this break-up a lot less devastating than it would be if it was a fresh ending to a romantic relationship. i've read a lot of people's threads that say they're shattered and devastated and my heart goes out to them, although i don't feel completely shattered myself. i think i felt that way more so earlier in the relationship. still, it was a very significant and long term relationship in my life, and i'm very much feeling the loss.

i'd love to get to this point of emotional maturity and detachment. i had a few controlled contacts via email with the pwBPD in my life after the last "break-up." they were civil and about possessions that needed to be returned. we exchanged a few replies. by the fourth reply, the pwBPD in my life began to get personal, making some criticisms, being manipulative. i simply didn't respond to the last email because i was afraid of getting "drawn in." i was also afraid of getting put down, insulted, etc. also, i felt angry at the unfairness of it. so i just never replied, and we are NC again. i received a text that said, "do you want to get coffee sometime?" and i didn't respond to that either.

perhaps this was the right thing to do ultimately, but i just feel sad about it. i feel sad that i can't (or won't? or don't know how?) respond in a human, compassionate way. at least that's how it feels. just silence feels kind of mean. just not responding to someone's feelings of being hurt.

i just feel like right now, that was the best i could do. i'm trying to end the relationship and to not engage in the unhealthy emotional levels i was before.

i'm starting to be in the self-inquiry stage of grieving i think, and feeling a little lost. i have a few insights about myself ... .that i'm narcissistic, "lonely child," things like that ... .things about myself that made me keep an unhealthy relationship in my life for so many years. i'm just kind of not sure what to do with all this now. i'm hoping as time goes by i'll get to a level of emotional detachment.

the boundary that you said, about not contacting the pwBPD in your life unless there is a reason, makes complete sense to me. i'm gonna steal that one. :)

i know that ending the relationship what i ultimately want and need to do, but a part of me feels guilty and sad for abandoning my friend. i'm sad that this person hurts and i'm sad to think i wasn't a good influence. and i'm sad and angry that a long-term friendship that i invested time, energy, and memories into feels totally erased, and that i'm not even honored as a "loved one" in this person's memory.

ah. thanks for listening / reading.

This is a great thread. I like W2K's point about having compassion as a core value. I am LC with my ex for about a year and half now. I had two short periods of NC after our breakup. About 6 months after I last saw her I contacted her because I wanted to help her. I thought I could get her to face her problems. I brought up her suicide attempt and her time in the hospital and wanted her to talk to me about it and what she knows about BPD. I know she was told she had BPD at the hospital but I don't know what she followed up with after she got out. If she followed up with anything.  

She made it known that my help wasn't needed or appreciated. So I backed off. She continued to contact me about small talk stuff. I was on her mind again. I obliged but didn't press for anything more and didn't take the bait when she would try to stir me up. I think she actually got bored with me and I didn't hear from her for several months. Out of the blue she contacted me drunk from a bar in Seattle. She had never done this before and I could tell she was a mess. She started contacting me every day after this and wanted me to come and see her. I talked to her mom a bit and found out she was supposed to be at her brother's wedding in Ohio the day she called me drunk from the bar. I continued to call her and tried to get her to tell me what was wrong. She didn't want to talk about it. I didn't tell her I knew she was supposed to be at her brother's wedding that day. We went back to small talk for awhile and then it petered out again.

She has contacted me several times since then. Mostly just to talk about what she is doing. She actually has opened up to me a bit. She tells me about her difficulities with her parents. She tells me she often thinks she is a bad person. She tells me she is sad because she realizes she has all casual friends and wants deeper connections. She tells me about 3 friends she has had for a time now and how she is trying to do better with them. She told me she wanted to work again. The last time I talked to her a week or so ago she had just started working again.

I don't tell her much about my life and she doesn't seem interested in it. lol. It is kind of a strage friendship. So... .what do I get out of it? I got to see the real her. I had no idea she was struggling so hard with life. I just saw this beautiful woman who seemed to have everything going for her. This was a complete facade though. I got to continue a dialogue with her to the point my pashion for her has wilted. I no longer have to be angry with her. I am at the point that I accept her for who she is and not the women of my dreams who cruelly abandoned me. I have no fear of contact with her and feel I can negotiate any conversation I have with her without it blowing up. I get to practice my communication skills I learned from bpdfamily and Dr Amador's book "I'm not sick, I don't need help". I figure if I am going to be a mature adult I should be able to handle difficult relationships. At the end of it all. I feel like I am a better person for having her in my life. I can remember and cherish some of the good memories again.  

I am very happy I didn't give away a tea set she gave me for my birthday. I collect pottery and she had the idea herself and took me to a pottery shop she had researched and let me pick out something I liked. On those days when she is feeling good she can be very thoughtful and caring. She wasn't all bad.

The most important thing is I feel good about where we are now. I am at peace. If she never contacts me again I am good with that. If she does I can talk to her without getting upset or upsetting her.

Want2know,

I agree that there_

Sharing knowledge and experiences... .that is what this site is about.  Glad it makes sense and that you feel it is worthy of incorporating into your thinking.   |iiii


It does feel good to be able to be at peace with it instead of having the fear and emotion that can be so overwhelming.  The capacity we each have to get to this point is not so far away as it feels.  It takes a 1/4 turn of thinking to get to a place where you have perspective and feel more in control.

i sent a text last night. it just addressed a few possessions that are still at my house that the pwBPD in my life was going to pick up. my text had a neutral, kind tone. i know my boundary is that i'm only going to initiate contact if there is a reason.

i feel a bit unsteady and nervous, but i'm going to stay firm to my boundary, and i think i can handle any response i might get, including no response. and if i really start to feel screwy about a response, and don't know what to do, i can always resort to NC again if i need to.

i also feel a little relieved, like i opened my closet door knowing there was a boogeyman in there, but opened it anyway. i feel a little safer because i'm wearing a football helmet and padding this time. maybe this analogy has gone far enough! :)

i like this as a goal. i think one of my major hangups in staying enmeshed with the pwBPD in my life in the past was refusing to accept that this relationship could not be a functional, intimate relationship. i would always let my boundaries down. i'm working on accepting that this person can't be my intimate friend, but can be someone i can maintain kindness towards. feeling a little better about things for now.

great thread, i learned a lot from this conversation. thanks for the links included too, about Wise Mind, emotional maturity, etc.

|iiii   Glad the links and this thread are helpful.  I refer to Wise Mind a lot!  It really helps put things in perspective, allowing one to address and feel the emotions without letting them take control.  Sounds like you have a good sense of the reality of your situation.

A little kindness can go a long way, and not just for others, but for ourselves, too.  :)

Want2Know - what you wrote above is brilliant and a very apt representation of what myself (and I'm sure others here) are going through.



I think this is what is hard for me with the situation with my friend and the other friend.  I feel like she should know that whatever he's telling her (if he is) is not true.  But yet she has stopped speaking to me.  I know in my heart what the truth is, yet I still so easily get my feelings hurt.   

My dear W2K... .

I was very happy to read this post :)

These days I mostly lurk, don't really post anymore, because my life is by and large moving leaps forward and in order.

I had a smile on my face when I read this so I had to respond.

You may remember, a few months ago, I was at this spot. In LC when I needed it myself, but able to control it. I like the term Controlled Contact. I even think you and I had a conversation about this on L6, and at that time I seem to recall you were not at the point when you thought you would be able to handle LC/CC.

Indeed, I have found (as have you) that, when we are well on our way to healing, when we have control over ourselves, and when know exactly what we want out of the communication with them, contact makes no difference. It may stir us a little, sprinkle us a little with some thoughts - and that's fine. For me, it was actually battling that stir and thoughts in a healthy way and moving even more forward that put me even further on my path to recovery.

Btw, I am back to NC with my ex, but not out of force, just because I have moved on with my life. Should he ever reappear again (and he well may), or not, I feel that will have little effect on me now :)

Congrats on getting this far! It is one of the last steps in the recovery process!     |iiii

Yes, there was a point when I needed the space, and NC served a purpose.  I do think I was a bit influenced by the predominance of NC on the Leaving board, and is a reason why I wanted to post this... .as a way for those to see that CC is an option, and to discuss the internal conflict that NC can create.  Thanks for checking in!  


When you say that you know in your heart what the truth is... .that is the strength you need to draw upon when determining what type of contact you want to have with this person.  If you have hurt feelings, it might be a good thing to understand why your feelings are hurt by doing some self-analysis (ie. on L5/L6) before making a decision to contact her.

I will draw upon that strength today, thank you.  I do know in my heart that I was a really good friend to both of them.  if I felt/knew otherwise, I don't think this would hurt.

I have tried to post a few times on L5/L6 but there's not usually a whole lot of traffic down there.   ;p

Plus, if I post this down there now, most people who wanted to read it, would have seen it up here.

Interesting, my fear is who among the people she painted me black to believe her. So when I run into her I am afraid and even paranoid of how people will respond to me... .when I do run into her it is easier just to leave the place as there are several bars or just avoid her altogether.

I am so happy for you. I'm sure the road to this point was not easy for you. I agree completely about the CC, especially when children are involved. Thanks for the inspiration that this place can be reached.

This is what happened to me two weeks ago but I called to confront it as I have never just had my say about what transpired. Because she ran away two years ago and is now back, she is having to face some stuff that she re-wrote, so the contact has been hateful from her. I am the triggering mechanism for her self loathing, and the hate speech email she sent me was really immature and juvenile. I was afraid of her two years ago bc she would rage at me and leave me trembling and in tears. I don't care about it anymore, so I can hear the nasty distorted stuff, and look at it with all the knowledge I have from this website.

I now know two weeks later that  I would have rather just owned my truth and let those who care about me make their own judgement, but it is what it is.  

I don't talk about her with anyone bc it was an ugly hurtful break up. And I had you guys to speak to, and all I said to our mutual friend was I got an incredibly nasty email and this is what she's been saying for the last two years, yikes. I'm not the same person I was four years ago and definitely not two years ago.

It is what it is, and you now have the knowledge to do something different if it occurs again - that is what the Processing Stage of Detachment (https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/03.htm) is all about.  Taking what is useful from our experiences, and changing our behavior based upon what we've learned.  |iiii

Thanks I did not realize I was in a detaching stage. Yes I am very at peace now with not having a relationship with this person, don't feel like I am missing out, and have learned alot about myself. For one, the network of people I have reached out to in the gay community and other places and new friends. I am likeable and appreciated and feel good about where I am at, if she needs to continue to make me "less" than that, that is her process and journey. One month ago I felt sad for her, now that I realize how she percieves me, I don't feel so sad. I do have more respect for what this website emphasizes as their mental illness and how it impacts their lives. But if her process involves demonizing me, it is best I stay far away. 

One day at a time... .as long as you are at peace, that is a good place to be.  That allows us to make better choices for ourselves, not be derailed by possible contact, and learn to have compassion for our peron with BPD, understanding the struggles of having this disorder and our role in the "dance".

Yes Suzn noticed about two months ago that my responses to bumping into her were becoming less reactive. Now I am no longer nervous, just try to avoid her if I can. The fact that she feels so hateful towards me is my next step, in letting go, and I know that is the old ego thing, "I was so good to her why doesn't she recognize that?" Now I get why bc she has to devalue me...

Understanding this disorder is a huge help... .I noticed similar push/pull with the person I dated pretty quick and 7 weeks later, no feelings whatsoever...

You are so right... .by understanding the disorder, and putting into perspective where her responses are coming from, it can be very helpful with managing any future contact in a way that does not have to be dramatic or conflicting.

This is an interesting read that is pertinent, if you haven't read it before:  BPD: What is it? How Can I Tell? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=63511.0)

I had nearly 3 months of NC with my ex before he appeared on the dating site I was on. He was full of regret for what had happened between us and full of declarations of undying love.

During NC I had struggled- I knew that I would find it hard to ignore him if he came looking for me. I like the way it's described in this thread as cognitive dissonance- I also couldn't cope with understanding the disorder, understanding that abandonment fear is what is at the core of the disorder and yet NC feeds straight into their feelings of abandonment. That's not to say it isn't absolutely necessary. It's paradoxical that they do it to us so harshly and this website is full of pain from people suffering from being cast into the ether by their BPD exes. Yet we do it to them. I really found that impossible to reconcile.

So, when he did come back (and I think I thought he never would) I couldn't say no. BUT I had a safety net which many others don't seem to have on here. I knew absolutely that I didn't want a relationship with him. It was incredibly hard being on here in that time because hardly anybody believed me! I knew I still loved him. But I knew that he could not offer me what I wanted from a relationship. I knew that he would hurt me. Full stop. I had no doubt that this would happen if I allowed myself to open up to him emotionally.

I offered him friendship. Initially he came to my house. On 3 consecutive days. He slept in my bed one night. I could feel my emotions becoming scrambled. We weren't intimate in any way but sharing a bed was a step too far. Spending that much time together was a step too far.

I pulled back and he persisted. Ringing my land line over and over. Insisting he would take whatever I offered on any terms. I went NC again.

Over the next month he sent the odd email. He rang once and I asked him not to ring again. He sent me a free flight mask he'd got because he knew I'd appreciate it. I posted on here. People responded he was stalking me. I didn't think he was. I think he was trying to show me he could respect my boundaries and make the effort. So I went back to being friends with limitations. I tried to validate at times. The more contact I had the more he wanted.

In the end he said he couldn't see me any more, that its too painful. He says he compares everyone to me and he will never get over destroying our relationship. I found it hard to be constantly rejecting him. It wasn't a basis for a friendship. But I do still care.

Seeing him helped me work through stuff, helped me work out my own boundaries. It was hard but it was better for me than the hole that NC created. Through NC I never knew what was coming or how I had to be prepared. Now I can get on with my life. If he comes back again it's ok. My emotions aren't dependent on him. There is still an emotional reaction but its less intense. It's like an echo.

I much prefer controlled contact; it really has worked for me. I don't think it would have done if I was hoping for anything other than to offer him some support and to not abandon him. If I need to go NC again I will. There is no need because I know what my boundaries are and he does too and ultimately it's up to him whether he chooses contact on that basis.

It's been a huge growth for me, both NC and CC. It's taught me a huge amount about myself and my own emotional immaturity.

I should add that im under no illusions about his idealisation of me. I know it wouldn't last if I remained friends or if I went into a relationship. He seems to believe that marrying me is the answer to everything. He sees security in marriage I think. He can carry on living according to the disorder with the protection of a mother figure as a wife but only as and when he needs it. I am sure he will marry soon. If I remain in contact that will be difficult because I will have to cope with seeing it all from BPD perspective when he and new wife don't. I'm not sure that would be a position I could cope with. The most difficult part for me immediately after we split was him discussing his new woman with me and what he found lacking in her. It made me feel sick. And I couldn't deal with knowing that he was lying to her.

Radical acceptance can only go so at for me before I decide there are certain things I cannot have in my life. Again it comes back to boundaries. And again that's something I never even looked at before BPD relationship.

Cognitive dissonance is a really important concept to understand regarding the whole No Contact aspect of detachment, and the internal conflict it can create.  


I think some of what is also entangled with No Contact is that it is based in fear.  Fear that we will be contacted by our ex, and immediately succumb to being in a full blown relationship with them again, which logically we know is no longer healthy.  

Part of this is because of our own lack of resolve to choose love, self-love, over fear.  If we could love and respect ourselves enough, and internalize this, the strength to handle any contact would be inherent, and there would be no fear of going through the recycling process or abuse by having contact with our pwBPD.

Want2know- yes you sum it up so well where I found myself. In NC I lived in fear of the next contact. The fear was about not knowing how I would react. In the end for me it was by going through contact I learned more about myself. I saw him as a dad, mentally ill person who I felt compassion for. The more I saw this the less of an affect it had on me emotionally.

NC allowed my imagination to create all sorts of other possibilities and that didn't suit me.

I could write a book on this topic at this point, but will try to be succinct.  I've been in contact with my uBPDexbf for 3 months after 10 months of NC.  I wanted to do this for the reasons W2K says (I think I explained that further up the thread).

I have found it to help me end the "what ifs" that plagued me during NC.  Maybe we could have been happy together if I'd just stuck around & waited?  That's been pretty definitively resolved.  If I had stuck around, or taken him up on his offer of some sort of undefined relationship without expectations or commitment, it would have been a train wreck.  That much, I can now accept.

But in lieu of the "what ifs," I now have a new set of painful questions.  The controlled contact I've had has not been steady or predictable.  It's had its own push-pull rhythm that I did not at first recognize.  My ex confided in me extensively and intimately, in a way that wasn't really regulated by the volume of contact (we've only seen each other five times since August; this has been mainly text and some email contact).  He expressed interest in me too.  It got to be the sort of thing that one really only does with one's intimate partner.  I liked it.  It validated all that we had together, it seemed to restore something good between us.  Then, twice already, he's withdrawn completely or nearly so, and I've endured the feelings of rejection and abandonment that come with that.  But because we aren't formally dating or anything, he doesn't feel the need to explain or be accountable around this (not that he could have been necessarily even if we had been dating).  He just re-appears when he can/wants to, and wants to carry on as we were.

I'm finding the whole thing very hard (though not harder than NC.  It is possible that all roads with pwBPD whom you care deeply about are hard, and the search for the one that feels good is futile).  I feel a bit like a vending machine that he comes to to get a sweet, affirming drink dispensed whenever that would feel good for him.  Quite different from a relationship.

Ironically, it's all uncomfortable.  When it's good, I think it is puzzling to both of us why we are not more to each other than this.  When it's broken off, his absence is painful for me.

I may just work on radical acceptance that he is going to come & go, and accept that I will be what he can accept from me, and will accept what he can give me.  Or I may need to reject the intimate part of our connection because it feels, in the end, abusive (not quite sure what rejecting it would mean as I am committed to not walking away from him entirely since I think NC hurt him badly and when I came back, I offered an enduring friendship -- I do want to come through with that, though that may need to have emotional limits I impose to try to moderate these intimacy/withdrawal cycles).

There are different forms of controlled contact depending on what you desire.  In your case, you are looking to maintain a friendship.  For most here on the Leaving board, I would venture to say that a friendship is not what is desired.

Having a friendship with him involves emotional attachment.  That is what is making it more complex regarding the communication you are trying to maintain.  The controlled contact that comes with those who do not want a long term friendship does not involve an emotional attachment. 

You will experience some of the same behaviors that you did before, such as push/pull.  Radical acceptance and using the tools that the folks on the Staying board use may be something you need to work towards if you want to maintain a friendship with him.  The other piece is figuring out why the void exists when he is absent, and filling it on your own without relying upon another to make you feel whole.  I know you are working on this, too.  It's certainly a journey, PnC.   

Good points W2K. You're right that a friendship involves more opportunity for emotional entanglement than CC.  I'm exploring the messiness of that on the Staying board.  The line between filling the void myself & recognizing that normal healthy relationships involve a certain degree of predictability & that it can do a lot of damage to be close to someone who cannot offer that ... .that's what I'm struggling with right now.

Sorry to detour from the CC discussion ... .back to that now!

Want2know - I love this story.  Well done.

I agree that NC limits us in dealing with it all, though it may be necessary at first.

I am trying for low contact, "keeping things sweet" so to speak.

It's ok at the moment as she's happy and settled with her new fiancee, even though that hurts. But it hurts me more to be discarded from her life completely.  At least she still wants me in her life as a friend, and she's not an extreme case, so... .   

It is nice to hear a positive success story :)

I'm glad you posted this. My ex and i used to attend music festivals together, and have gotten back together after a split twice at a music festival. We've only been split up for less than a complete month with NC, so I am absolutely terrified of seeing her there. Once when we got back together we had only been split up for about 3 weeks, and she brought her new guy (who was 9 years younger than her and barely out of highschool) with her. She broke up with him there after telling him she was still in love with me. I don't want to get back with her, but my mind always convinces me that i need her in that situation. Any advice? Feel free to PM if you like :)

Beautiful post Want2know. Hope you are doing well and CC is working for you. I see your post is 2 years old. And thanks mango_flower for highlighting this.

I tried CC with my ex initially but it didn't work. He was with replacement and still angry with me that it didn't work between us. I know he wanted me in his life and offered friendship. But it was very difficult for me. He would tell me stories about his new gf, their vacation and stuff they do. Basically he had replaced our entire routine with her. Sometimes he would complain about her that she doesn't give him as much attention as me. Basically, I was hurt and broken and all of this didn't help. I tried to force NC but that didn't work too. I was addicted to my drug. So finally, after being friends for 4 months, I stopped responding to him and went NC. It's been almost a year and It actually has been helpful. I have been able to focus on myself instead of trying to help him. I think I have made great progress in embracing being on the other side. It's another matter that I still think about him, want to know how he is doing and end up googling him. I don't know when this would end. I don't know what do I need to resolve within me to move forward.

So, I wonder if CC would still work if exBPDbf is with replacement? 

What does it mean to go Controlled Contact?

Thank you :). A really insightful post.

I agree, NC is useful (actually crucial) to help defuse and to deal with the overwhelming tsunami of break-up emotions as well as to start to set some self goals on the road to recovery. To examine your own issues as to why you got involved, why you stayed and so on.

I refuse to be intimidated or forever in fear of contact - mostly on account of the fact that I'm going to run into mine quite regularly. And also out of some degree of compassion (we were friends for years before our r/s). I've established occasional contact, and recently caught up with my exBPDgf as a bit of a litmus test to see how much I had detached, and how indifferent I could be. She has not been in contact with me in between me contacting her. I will just see how this all goes. The desire to want to keep catching up or having controlled contact might fizzle out once I've confirmed my detatchment and indifference.



The controlled contact I've had has not been steady or predictable.  It's had its own push-pull rhythm that I did not at first recognize... .I may just work on radical acceptance that he is going to come & go, and accept that I will be what he can accept from me, and will accept what he can give me... .I feel a bit like a vending machine that he comes to to get a sweet, affirming drink dispensed whenever that would feel good for him.  Quite different from a relationship.

The vending machine analogy is great. I understand if we have some type of CC, we are both probably explaining it to ourselves as 'friendship' but in reality, it can never be a true friendship that is experienced with normal, healthy individuals. For me it will really just be a 'checking in' with her to let her know I'm thinking of her, taking an interest in her life (it's all about them of course), hopefully in a compassionate way, but it will never be anything more than that.

There is a legitimate reason to be frightened by having any contact, at least for me. 

After we broke up, my ex:

1) Reframed the history of our entire relationship to make me look like an a-hole to all of our mutual friends

2) Went on a character assassination spree against me

3) Send me a bunch of angry texts messages, then called the police on me when I responded (politely).

4) Told the most insane lies about me that had the tiniest kernel of truth to them.  Mine had a really distorted view of reality, and so I'm sure she actually believed most of them. 

Anyway, my exBPD scares the crap out of me now.  What's worse, is that I suspect she knows she is scaring me, and is somewhat getting off on it. 

captainp, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds difficult and very painful.

I guess everyone of us has had a different experience both in our r/s, and in how they have ended.

Mine did not involve any physical violence or nasty behaviour once ended (well, not that I am aware of yet). If it had, I would not be wanting to ever have anything to do with the ex ever again either, and appreciate CC would have a very different motive behind it.

I understand what you mean, but in the first few months of the breakup our emotions are so raw and wildly fluctuating (and the temptation to initiate contact so strong) that the focus must be on NC - purely for survival. It's almost as though there needs to be a discussion board for folks who have gotten through the initial horror and are now seeking to heal - not simply to survive and stay in one piece.

If CC can work for you, go for it.

for some of us, it will only make matters worse.

When i am finally healed from this emotional trauma, I do not want to know what my exgf is doing, who she is with, etc.

Out of sight, out of mind.

Done.

I do not want to know that right now, and certainly not in the future.

The only thing that matters to me is reaching the point where I no longer care, and not allowing myself to make the same mistakes again as I did with my ex.

I am glad I read this today.  My divorce hearing is in the first week of January and I have already been anxious about possibly seeing him. I may or may not. I am uncertain. I can make my goal to act with class and grace no matter what. I am afraid I will break down sobbing in front of him. I have so much grief, no real detachment, and no closure. I do have my own dignity, though, and I will make it my goal to display it. Thanks for the post!

The vending machine simile is perfect, and this is exactly how my experience with my exBPDbf has been.

We've been broken up for 9 months, and he contacts me about every 6-8 weeks or so. We will talk for anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour, and then that's it for another two months.

He does give me something in our interactions. We share news of mutual coworkers. We talk about work and video games. He is actually, for the most part, kind and encouraging to me. He hasn't tried to start up anything. But there is also hurtful behavior and words, and I know that I am there to fulfill his needs.

I do believe that he loves me in his way. He has said, pretty much verbatim, that we could never not have a destructive relationship because he loves me so much. (And no, I don't think I'm the only person he's ever loved this much. I know he has had at least one other very triggering exgf. She left him after 5 years.)

And I agree. We could never not have a destructive relationship. And, while I love him and care about him, I can't be friends with him. That's too close and painful. Right now, CC and radical acceptance seems to be working.