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Just need to vent with people that understand. Tonight is one of my few evenings off that I have and had planned to spend it with him. All day today he has been making little comments like "I don't know if you want to come over, the weathers not looking good." I have gone over there in much worse weather than this. Since we have decided to work things out, I feel like he is keeping me hidden. Not inviting me over on the weekends when his daughter is there, very limited time together and no talk or plans of anything in the future. I would like to confront him on this but I'm afraid it is going to escalate into a break up again because it seems like when I put demands on the relationship he backs down because he cannot fullfill them. We use to be together all the time. I'm not sure how to take this. I need more in my life.

Ugh.  That pattern.

Well Benny, for sure, pushing for more doesn't go well.  Your instinct that pushing your way in won't be met well is undoubtedly right.

So if you accept that he is needing & taking a LOT of space, the question is -- can you live with that?  Your instinct that you cannot is very important, of course.

You can't fight the distancing pattern.  Maybe, when you're in a relatively good place with him, you can ask him what goes on for him when he is taking space like this, and how much space he anticipates needing, so you can understand what to expect and not have to keep reacting in a surprised way.

I know for me, I can deal with lots of space, I just can't deal with the rejection feelings that come along with space when it comes out of the blue & leaves me wondering when he'll come back, what I should have done differently, etc.  If I can just plan for it as a normal part of living, even if not pre-scheduled, the emotional toll is easier.

I think we get into trouble when we expect a normal degree of proximity and closeness.  Then there is this constant deviation from that expectation that feels like a failure or a rejection.

It really seems to me that with pwBPD, adding more and more and more and even more space, is the way to maintain a peaceful, happy dynamic when you are together.  Letting them come to you, own that they want to be together, and so on.  The question is what is left once you've injected all that space -- enough to be the relationship you choose to remain in?

Maybe he'd welcome a frank discussion about how it feels to be him at times like this, and how much time together HE thinks is going to be best.  Would be interesting to hear that, no?  Though I wouldn't start that while he's pushing away.  Now, I'd just say "OK, let me know when you're feeling like getting together.  I think I'll X tonight!"

And then you decide whether, accepting this pattern, you can live life like this.

Paitentandclear, are you hoping for more in the future? Do you think that by giving him space and letting him control the relationship that things may change someday? I guess if I knew there was a chance for that, I could do this for awhile, but I know I need more. I want someone in my life, to be by my side. Someone I can count on and come home to. He knows thats what I want, we have had this discussion in the past, so why does he keep coming back to me if he can't give me that? I have told him before to please just let me go if he cannot be the man I need him to be, but he never leaves me alone. He has made it clear that he does not want me with anyone else. We just had this discussion last night. He seems to be more of a mess than before. Hes all over the place now. Even his daughter said hes changing his plans on a daily basis. I am giving him his space. He knew I was disapointed tonight, he even asked me, but I put on a front anyways.

Is there something that you can pinpoint that is causing him to degrade in such a broad way?

I mean if he is getting generally worse, can you pinpoint what triggered this broad response.

I'm probably not the best person to run this by right now ... .  6 weeks ago I'd have said "I'm giving him space, we're learning to trust each other, and what will be, will eventually be."  I'd decided I couldn't be in a romantic r/s with my pwBPD unless he gained insight about what causes him to implode things.  I know coming home to that would destroy me eventually.  But after a long period of NC, we had embarked on this intimate friendship of 7 months that I thought was going well.  He was pushing himself, I was using the tools, we were making our way out onto the thin ice and hadn't fallen through ... .  

Until we fell through.  He up & left town three weeks ago, very suddenly, destination unknown.  Details of all this for a separate thread sometime soon when I can face recounting them.  And now he reports he's decided to move to another randomly selected city half a continent away ... .  

So yes, I wanted more, but was giving space while we took the time to develop what I thought was a strong foundation that might have supported a renewed romantic r/s  if he ever gained that insight about why he implodes things.  The space didn't save us.  It did make the dynamic with him pretty good for 7 months, which is an all time record in his life.  I am still giving him space though, even as I pose some difficult questions for him about why he constantly unravels everything he and others work to knit together.  He's not answering, and I will be giving him all the space in the world if he doesn't choose to engage that question.

Back to your story -- I doubt your guy or mine can perform in the way you're hoping, with the reliability and predictable closeness.  I think they will always need lots of space in which to manage their dysregulation in private and in their own time.

1st thing is      !  I know how difficult this is.  You say you "need more" in your life... .  and you should have it~~but perhaps you won't get it from him.

2nd is the word "confront."  Confront suggests you're getting ready for a fight.  You know what the outcome is going to be and if you push, you are likely to see exactly what you are expecting. 

You said that he "backs down because he cannot fulfill" your expectations for a relationship.  That says a lot!  I know that my fiance often feels this way and I felt that I had 2 choices... .  remove the expectations or leave the relationship.  Someone once told me that if one expects nothing one is never disappointed.  I felt that it was a very cynical view at the time, but the more I lived through being disappointed, the more I understood what she meant!  I've worked on this for years now and although I'm human and still have certain hopes for receiving basic respect from others (because I give that to them) I know that things will be what they are and others may not subscribe to my philosophy.  It's not that I've become a doormat~~on the contrary, I feel much stronger for it.  I have the choice to either include those people in my life or not... .  and so do you.

I'm not sure what is going on with him, but of course I never do. I have a feeling his issues have to do with his ex. She was up here a few weeks ago and says now he knows he has nothing for her, but he has been going back and forth between us for years. I guess I really need to talk to him and try to get an idea as to where he is at. I tried the other night by asking him, "so you say you want to be involved in my life, what does that involve." He really gave me no answer. At this point I am nothing but a sleeping partner. I also wonder if his abandoment fears are playing a role in this as he seems to be real paranoid lately that I am going to find someone else. I assured him that as long as we are together I would never let that happen. On the same hand, is it fair to ask me to settle for this and not offer me more? We will see what happens this weekend. I have 3 days off and he will have his daughter. If he can't have me over there during this time, I'm probably going to end this. I got along with his daughter great and I cannot understand why he is hiding me from her. Yes, I am afraid to ask him.

Patientandclear,

If you start that thread with your new insight, I'd be very interested. I had read your story before and thought that maybe you had found a hopefully realistic rs with a BPDex... .  Friends. It's about all I miss ... .  Certainly not the romantic crazy hell relationship. But my BPDex's friendship was her best feature.

Hugs Benny  

Its a process that everyone must go through. Trying to find room for yourself in a relationship that is a bit lopsided. Can you live with the room you have found?  Therein lies the answer.  There are some really great tools here to help you make that space for yourself.  You cant make him well, but you can make what you have better, and not make it worse.

You must accept that they are what they are and that they cant give you everything you need.  As we have been told here.  :)ucks cant bark, and no matter how hard you try to get them to bark, they just cant.  They are sick in the head and the heart, and their thoughts are detached from reality.

Can you be healthy with what he can offer?

Mine had zero ability to empathize, and black and white thinking,  therefore every action that he saw in me that was not the way a person should be made me less of a person.

He is not my judge, jury and executioner.