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Hi, I happen to come on and off these boards cause it does trigger me reading other people's posts. So I've been single for over a year because my ex broke up with me I was broken for months on end but now I've been enjoying single life throughout it. Been going out meeting women enjoying their company etc. If something happened on the night it did I never exchanged numbers because I wasn't ready for dating.

Cut a long story short met a girl a few months ago who lives out of town, been speaking for a few weeks and arranged to go out. Within the first 5 mins she mentioned the ex because her cousin was dating my exs cousin. It set my mood for the night and I just lost interest in the night. My conclusion was that I'm just not ready to date which I believe I'm not.

Anyhow subconsciously my interest levels in this new woman went to zero and I received a message a few days later and she was saying how nice I am but I haven't been the same for whatever reason etc.

Now I receive an email from the ex saying "How's your girlfriend? Small world!"

Where on earth is the logic in this.

J12, After your ex broke up with you, how much contact did you have with her afterwards?  Any recycling or was it pretty well a no contact situation?

Hi,

After the breakup I was a bit confused for a few months. My relationship consisted of a lot of breakup threats on a daily basis after the first year for about 5 months but it was all empty threats more like push and pull. Kick me out the house and then when I'd leave she'd cry asking for me to come back and other times argue with me because I left!

So after the break up I was confused and had zero closure and I was chasing her for a few months trying to get her back, flowers, letters, birthday present and a teddy bear in valentines anyhow I then got a Txt saying she had a Bf so I just left it after that. In hindsight very stupid but I acted on impulse because I didn't want to lose her.

Fast forward 4 months I saw her in this bar whilst at the bar she goes and places herself next to me. She says hello we speak for a while she informs me that she's broken up with her Bf, I buy her a drink and wish her a good night and walk off. 3 hours later in the night after I've left the club to eat and come back I walk past her and her friends and she strokes my lower back strongly and as a natural reaction I done the same and walked off (all in my stride). I get talking to a friends sister friendly. Later on I find out my ex has started an argument with my friends sister in the toilets accusing her of looking at her funny?

I go out to a bar with a few friends recognise a Bouncer and ask him how I know him and we conclude it's through the ex seen as he went out with her when they were younger. We speak a bit and he tells me about her in the past etc. Same ~ as me just different person lol. He then lies to her about supposed things I said she emails me going mad, I correct her,  she calls me up and we speak about life in general and how she is and I am etc... Pleasant 20 minute conversation then no contact till this event I mentioned in my first message.



Sorry about the long reply. I'd rather say it in depth so you can try and get a good understanding of the situation :-)

Thanks for your help!

Just received another email from the ex. I didn't reply to the previous one because there was no need to.

":)on't worry I'm not trying to ruin your relationship, if that's the reasoning behind you ignoring my last email! Always knew you'd end up with a girl the same race as you. Bet your family are happy! "

I'm trying to read between the lines here... .  I'm baffled and a bit emotion if I'm honest :-)

If someone can give me their opinion it would be very helpful

She wants you to JADE.  Read up on communicating without JADEing.

What do you mean by jade?

She is attempting to get you to Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain yourself.  This gives her the control of the conversation.

Its an manipulation technique to re engage you without taking responsibility for herself.  If you must answer a simple answer will do like thank you for respecting my privacy, I wish all the best for you as well.

My ex and I always break up over his toxic mouth, but when he tries to re engage is always with a... .  Dont worry im not trying to intrude in your life.  I know you and your new man must be happy.   He is trying to stick his foot in the door while saying he isnt.

It's over a year since she broke up with me. And now I get this!

It's one of those where I lover her but can't be with her and don't want to be with anyone else lol catch 22 for me. I'm just a strong character this is my only damn weakness! Lol

So you think this reply is too much;

Firstly, I didn't get a previous email and secondly there was nothing and there is nothing for you to ruin. Went out for a drink, was bored as fu*k then lied about having a migraine and dropped her back off home.Not interested in anything or anyone apart from myself.

 And however soppy this may sound and I have no shame in saying it, there was 3 women in my life. My mum and my nan. The other lady in my life let me down and broke my heart

?

Its Jade ing :)

What is her actual question?  The original one from the first email?

Do you want her back or do you want her to stay gone?

"How's your girlfriend? Small world!"

I don't know what I want. I love her without a doubt but she really messed me up.

Is my reply over the top... .  

That was the first message

Its not her concern about any girfriend or not.  Dont respond to it.

You can start by answering... .  yeah, its been a long time.  It was good to see you the other nite.

Do not respond to the second email at all.  Its rude and you have no responsibility to do so.

Just because they say it, doesnt mean you have any responsibility to answer.

Rationally I agree with you. If I was to send my reply the one i've posted above would that be too much considering I possibly want to get back with her.

Thanks for helping out  :)

Remember not to JADE... .  if she asks you an inappropriate question or asks you to explain something, turn it around by nicely asking her.  Why do you feel that way?  or Why do you want to know that.  Then you turn the tables to where she is going to have to do 1 of 2 things

Drop it because its too much work, or JADE herself.  It will normally come out as the Justifying and a little offensive.   :)

In this semi state that I'm in though it will be hard to not JADE. How would you reply to this if it was you... .  Sorry to be a nuisance  *)

":)on't worry I'm not trying to ruin your relationship, if that's the reasoning behind you ignoring my last email! Always knew you'd end up with a girl the same race as you. Bet your family are happy! "

I wouldnt... .  I would ignore it.  Its rude and non of her business.

Just answer the first email as that is why she sent the second one.

Yeah, it was really good to get to see you again the other day.  How are things with you?

you may think giving big, long, open and honest emails will help, but they wont.

Is this fine. Btw I haven't seen her fit 6 months.

In the first email she mentioned 'how's your gf' would it be worth my time mentioning the fact that I haven't got one or shall I just ignore that question... .  

Hey, 

How's you and your studies going? You've probably got cw deadlines or exams coming up now seen as it's about this time of the year, so I hope they're going well for you :-) I didn't get another email? When did you send it... .   Speak soon, Jeffrey x

Jeff,

Absolutely and unequivocally do not send that back to her.  She's starving for validation here and you're giving it to her in spades.  She's allowed to move on (on the surface of course; emotionally it's impossible for her over time), but you are not.  Think of everything she put you through, man.  It's comforting to her that you are still that sniveling mess that showed up at her work with flowers months later.  There is absolutely no reason to expose your hand like that.  Her last email is dripping with insecurity with the race comment.  You don't owe this woman a thing, and at the same time do not need her validation to stand on your own two feet.

I would have responded to her first message in one of two ways.  The first would be in a sarcastic manner to play back at her.  Yes, it's a game.  Something like:

Hey Hey Hey,

How the heck are ya?  Long time no speak.  Still living at the same address?  I should keep it handy should I need to send any invitations your way in the near future!  I'm glad you're keeping tabs on me otherwise I would have completely lost track of you at this point.


Or and probably better for this scenario is something direct and to the point.  You tell her you know exactly what she's doing and draw a clear line on what you will tolerate:

Name,

It's no business of either one of us whom we may or may not be seeing at this point in our lives.  We are exes.  I owe you nothing and the same goes for you to me.  Your email is designed to evoke a response from me, which is entirely inappropriate.  I have moved on with respect and ask that you do the same.  Any future emails will not be responded to.

Jeff


Of course, option 3 is complete silence.  I do think at some point the passive approach becomes counter-productive as indicated by the paralysis her emails have induced.    

That reads like you want her back or at the very least want to be pals.  Do you?  Why lie about not getting the other email?  You are too busy living your life to respond!  She's not priority #1 any more.

Thanks guys.

Oletimefeeling, cheers for being brutal haha. Sometimes that's needed. The funny thing is moving on with other chicks on a night out is a norm now it's just that I'm just emotionally cold towards them bro.

My dilemma is that I love the ex but I can never be with her because I wouldn't allow myself. Problem is I don't want any other woman so I'm in a catch 22 pal.

These people with BPD can have such a power hold on us.

My question to you pal is. She breaks up with me. I chase her. She ignores all of my efforts then.

I see her 6 months ago out. She is always looking in my direction. Puts herself in front of me and starts talking to me. Then touches me whilst I walk away. Then argues with a friends sister in the night accusing her of looking at her funny.

And now this? She didn't want me. So all this change for?

Jeff this is very difficult business.  

I read a bit of your posting history. Her recent actions sound like par for the course for her.  You are spending a lot of energy trying to rationalize the irrational - both her actions towards you and your responses. To some extent you need to take these at face value but recognize change is indeed necessary. But the only one that you can change is you.

In several of your previous posts you mentioned you come on and off these boards because they "trigger you." What does that mean?  What happens here that causes such bad feelings that you feel you need to give it such lengthy rests?

Change is her way of life, Jeff.  She can't stay consistent from one moment to the next.  If you come across her radar, whether it be at a bar or through someone telling her about date you went on, then all of sudden you move back to the forefront.  The lack of object constancy is useless if she see you or hears about you.

Go ahead and date.  Give people a chance.  Stay away from people that are even remotely in your ex's orbit like this last one.

Update:

I get a random txt a few days ago asking me if I can get her some antibiotics because it's impossible for her to get to the doctors on time. Take into consideration she in the past changed her number so I wouldn't have it and we would always communicate threw email. So now she txts me?

Like an idiot because I'm not a bad person and when it concerns someone's health I'm a bit of a sucker I drove down there and gave her the antibiotics and spoke to her and her mother who missed me etc and the rest of the nonsense. She mentioned how she loved me, didn't cheat on me and that the reason behind the breakup was not because she didn't love me but was due to her being unable to live a life of constant jealousy, anxiety etc because of me. She apologised for the mistakes she done and blamed herself... .  

I told her I still loved her and wanted to cuddle and kiss her but I wouldn't because it wouldn't be the right thing to do for me and her. She also told me she wanted to engage me at the time and she's studying wedding planning at present and she could of planned our wedding... .   Smart little jab from her lol... .   Ooo and she was still attracted to me... .  

I leave and I receive a txt from her saying:

Thanks for eveththing the breakup wasn't your fault. Don't think in didn't want to cuddle you or kiss you but I'm doing it for my own sanity.

I stuck to my guns I believe did to an extent pour my heart out but I maintained a level of maturity. My question is why would someone do what she done when it was her interest prior in the past to avoid all contact with me and now she's started the contact process... .  

Am i reading this all wrong... .

Thanks in advance

What's your read on it, Jeff?  Hard to say what triggered it.  I'd imagine it has something to do with you showing signs of moving on by dating and also ignoring her more recently.  She senses that she doesn't rent as much space in your head any more and wants back in.  The plea for antibiotics is unquestionably a test of your devotion.  She likely knows that the health stuff is the way to get to you, so she went for broke.  I mean come on now.  She couldn't get to the CVS nor could her mother who also was present.  What's more instinctive than a mother's love?  This was about testing your commitment level.

Be careful. 

I agree with OTF about being careful but don't beat yourself up because you chose to be helpful.

But don't be drawn into old patterns either. I think you did well to deliver the pills and depart - you are reading things well - staying out of the "pull" even as you put yourself in temptation's way.

Jeff,

I have a question for you: If you are out of the relationship and happily casually dating, why even if you love her, want to keep in touch with her?  Just want to know how this helps you move on?

My take: She is baiting you. 

You don't need to respond.  If you chose to, respond in ten words or less if you can.  That way you can't connect with her.

Like: Got your email. All is well. Enjoy your day.

That is it.  You had enough the night you realized there was a connection from  your date to her now bf.  Don't prolong your pain.  She doesnt want you to be with someone else doesnt mean she wants to be with you, she might want an emotional relationship or friendship.  How would that help you or your future?

We're all going through a lot. I think you can move on and be successful at cutting your ties.  Keep it simple with her or NC.

If she wanted to fix things she would tell you she was getting help and make an attempt with you she wouldnt be baiting you.

I think jeff, you're not yet detached, and despite the breakup feel you're in a position to decide your own fate regarding this r/s. i think that option has gone. She knows she is now in control of the situation if you take her back. In my opinion, she has not given any indication she is willing to change. Remember that she is prepared to say anything to get what she wants that moment.

Maybe you do desire/need to go in for another 12 rounder. Many of us did on your situation. Everyone who did regrets it. Unfortunately it's difficult to learn from other people's mistakes.  

If you really contemplate giving in and going back in, you need to prepare for the worst ride she's ever given you. The recycles get more traumatic time after time. I really hope you have the strength to go NC and start to heal.

You need her like a head needs a hole. You on the other hand mean the world to her, until she paints you pitch black again and throws you away like last week's newspaper.

God bless.

What's my read in it?

Hmmmm,  I believe it's because she got jealous that I was talking to another woman. This in her mind means that in am moving on which would of triggered abandonment fears. But, what's the reasoning behind her snide remarks such as I still find you attractive, wanted to engage you, blaming herself for a lot of the issues, etc. If she couldn't see these issues before than where on earth did this enlightenment come now.

Why would someone want to test my devotion and commitment if they made it 110 percent clear they didn't want me when she broke up with me and then changed her number and painted me black... .  

Whereisthezen:

You've put me in a corner with those questions haha. A 2 year relationship was finished with zero closure. From being obsessed with me to literally in a split second deleting me out of her life. Even though it's been over a year since the breakup there's been am emptiness that has surrounded me. Maybe the lack of closure at the time. Now that I've got some questions answered by her and seeing her ex after me was an absolute idiot and not in my league haha I feel better about myself. I lost a lot of self confidence after the breakup and went through a minor phase of depression. Now though after getting these questions answered by her there is an element in me that misses her physically and emotionally BUT I really can't be arsed to be back in that lunacy of a relationship ever again.



Question I've got to ask:

How would I communicate with her if I wanted to date her again?

I know how to deal with it if I didn't want to speak to her. Simply go NC

Thanks in advance

She's a person with BPD Jeff! One of my biggest challenges re staying with my W is dealing with the ongoing daily snide remarks.  It's a defense mechanism for them. It won't change.


I think you provided the answer to your own question right before you asked it Jeff.  



There's a lot of opinion out there re No Contact Jeff.  My opinion is that it is something that has to evolve, not decided in advance.  NC seems to be like a Fad diet; you can lose the weight (in this case about a 120lbs?) but it all comes back if you don't change your lifestyle.  

In this case you need to change how you communicate if and when there's contact again. As I said you did reasonably well with the pill episode.  Whereizthezen gave you some words for email. Those might work. You could also be prepared to validate - i.e. with the pill episode you could have said "I know how important those pills are to you." "yeah, I can see that it's going to be difficult for you to get to the CVS" and if you want to, make it more of a SET piece by adding "yeah, doing things for each other is what people in a relationship do." And of course, DON'T get the pills this time. 

Will she find this a bit patronizing? Most likely.  :)oes it show concern for her situation given it is likely you are actually concerned for her well being? I think so. Remember, you are trying to make yourself feel better about all that has happened.  Going NC can make you feel pretty bad.  Work at changing your communication and responses rather than just eliminate it.  

Again - lots of opinion out there about NC.  NC is fine if you've managed to detach.  If you haven't, try some validation to ease you into it - and maintain your boundaries.  

Jeff... . Jeff... . Jeff :)

Be careful my friend. I cannot count how many potential relationships my exBPD ruined BEFORE we ever dated (and while she was with someone else!) If it was some cute girl working at the mall in a different city and she knew I was going there to see this girl, my ex would actually leave work early and call me that she wanted to meet up for lunch/shopping - thus *blocking. Months after she left me and ran into the arms of another guy, she made sure to get a distant friend of hers to stop talking to me after seeing some pictures of us together online. Literally, this girl has never spoken to me again - despite us having arranged to go out again! LOL

BPD's have abandonment issues and engage in magical thinking. There is nothing more magical than thinking you can still have a relationship with someone you deeply hurt - and without accepting full responsibility (which includes accepting your issues and actively engaging in therapy to correct them). Additionally, even when they abandon you, there is still this need, want and desire for them to feel as though you are not completely out of their life. They must have that to avoid feeling as though they will be alone. We can label it things like a safety net, recycling or something simplistic but in truth it's very complex and ties into how the disorder works. Does it mean it's manipulation? Not necessarily. Does it mean they do care about you? Not necessarily. Often they do care and aren't consciously trying to manipulate but it will typically feel that way in the end. These are still troubled souls who haven't learned appropriate and mature ways to cope with their emotions - and it is very difficult for them to learn to do that.

So, knowing those things, is it a shock that a BPDex would suddenly contact you (or anyone else they dated) upon learning information which suggests you've moved on and may be permanently out of their life? No! It makes perfect sense, doesn't it? It's completely understandable given the issues they struggle with. However, we have to remember that those issues are still there and the reason their behavior changed is only because the situation changed that it triggered abandonment within them. The apologies are often sincere in that moment. Most BPD's do know they hurt people they cared about. Most feel awful because of it and the self-loathing and shame from that feeds the disorder even more. But you have to remember: The moment they feel you are secured and/or they feel too attached, you'll be pushed away again. That pattern will remain until they are in recovery.

You have not healed from the previous relationship with her and it feels like you don't fully understand the relationship dynamic surrounding this disorder. That concerns me greatly because if you were to re-engage your ex, when she inevitably pushes you away again, I worry that you will be further traumatized by that invalidating act.

I have not been with my exBPD for 19 months or so? I've gone out with plenty of women but I still have a knee-jerk reaction to flee the moment I sense or see any emotional neediness in them. If I see insecurity or anything I now recognize as a warning sign I ignored with my ex, I instantly hit abort!

I think you should consider avoiding one-nighters. I don't feel those are ever helpful. That's typically about void-filling and avoiding intimacy and I assume what you really want is a person with whom you can have true intimacy while feeling secure and respected? Those people are out there (albeit difficult to find!). Don't screw up your path by misunderstanding what is occurring with your BPDex. If you truly want to consider the possibility of a relationship with her and she's attempting to make it happen, set a minimum amount of therapy she will need before you can pursue it. If she complies with that, you two might have a chance. Otherwise you're just going to scratch the scabs off your still sore wounds.

I would go back to NC, continue working on your healing and being open to finding someone who can offer you the healthy relationship you deserve. And I wouldn't hesitate telling a potential partner about what you've been through. If they're decent, understanding people, they'll understand the need to move slow and careful - which should help you see that they are different than the type who hurt you.

Hey guys,

May the confusion begin. So for the past couple of weeks I've bee in contact  with the ex spending time together.

We've been touchy together, massaging each other (in between the massage she says she can't do it anymore because it's turning her on), says that she still have feelings for me and cares but can't allow anything to happen for her own sanity. No kissing. But on the other hand she will say things like I'm the best looking ex she's had.

Anyhow, after soon good times I randomly get a message asking me that she wants to go away to a country that I've been to etc. I answer the question explaining  the good places to go etc. She then goes off on one saying that I've lied to her saying I said that I  was house bound for over a year due to the break up (never said this what I did say was that I was distraught when we broke up). She then went off on one saying she broke up with me because I'm a liar and ignition lied about this then I lied about things in our relationship,  she then went on about something concerning a pic of me on a friends profile and 2 women commenting on it with them saying 'my favourite boy Jeff' and 'look after my god brother' these were written by a friend and a god sister after the relationship. She said she hated me, hates my culture and she's glad to have broken up with me. So I stayed quiet and said this was all not true and I've done nothing wrong and can't justify her logic and reaction... .

The next day I get a message apologising for everything she said and how she was wrong to say what she said and that she has no right to question me and that she's ashamed in herself and this is not the person she is anymore.

Since that day I have sensed she's been a bit offish. We are exchanging messages as normal but I just sensed something has changed. So I pull away to give her space and she randomly messages me saying she has a pain and she thinks it's a brain tumour etc which is clearly isn't. She's probably the only person I know who self doctors herself and comes up with different illnesses she has everyday lol

I'm really confused.

Input would be greatly appreciated guys and girls  |iiii

It's a game to be with a borderline woman, Jeff.  You need to act distant not just wait around for her to dictate the physical intimacy.  That never works.  She'll want you more the less you appear to care. 

The freak outs etc you need to accept if you want to be with her.  You shouldn't be surprised by these at this stage in the game.       

:light:

Oh My Goodness, so that's what all those circular conversations were about?   every time we had a conversation about 'our issues' I ended up more confused and baffled then ever.   And feeling like I had just been battered with verbal battering ram.  a couple of our "fix this relationship" talks ended up with me curled up in a fetal position on the sofa with my arms wrapped around my head.  I think I was trying to make the words stop and hold together my psyche which felt like it was under assault.

Haha it's more than a game. What do you mean by acting distant? Can you forward me to any threads that i might be able to get some info... .

This time it's harder cause I can forsee the events but I would say my issue is with how Ideal with iit . I mean she'll have her jealous moment and go off on one and I'll be able to semi deal with it but it's the rebound effect after that confuses me.

Jeff,

Borderlines are ruled by their twin fears of abandonment and the same time engulfment.  This is the essence of the push-pull that people write so much about on this web site.  When you get too close, they will eventually push you away.  You may not think you aren't even doing this, but remember you are right back in there.  You've seen her at her worst and she recognizes fully that you came back for more.

You can't crowd her.  Live your own life.  Do not drop everything to cater to her every whim.  She can't always feel like she has you on a string.  There will have to be some challenge for her.  Part of that challenge is reeling you back in.  So when I say be distant this is the dynamic I am referring to.  When you are heavy petting with her or whatever, pull back and so on. 

As I am sure you know, this sort of dynamic repeating in perpetuity is hardly the bedrock of a healthy relationship.     

Oletimefeelin has been providing excellent analysis and advice Jeff. 

Through your own admission in bold above, you recognize your role in this situation.  Since she won't change, what will you do to change?  Hint - everyone here has been giving you suggestions... .  

I'm trying in my side to rid myself of that codependancy I have to am extent. It's hard though when I change a profile pic on a phone app chat thing I have for contacts on my phone and she says 'oo you like a picture don't you. Is that how you pull other women'

Why comments like that lol when my intentions are clearly not that and secondly she pushes and pulls me. Like now we'll initiate contact together and speak then she'll give it the indifferent approach all of a sudden then throw in some sarcastic remarks like above.

When you say distant does it mean not message her at all and ignore her or just act in different with the odd "How's your day going" message.

Thanks for your advice. I'm kinda getting their controlling myself and reading the situations it's just acting appropriately to the scenario that I'm having trouble with lol

Thanks again peeps. Without the help from this forum I'd prob be all over the place!

If she says that about your phone, then don't let her see your phone.  It took me a while to get that my W would never be able to shed her fears and need for control regarding my contacts.  So my phone is locked - as is hers. 

That's one change to make Jeff... .  a fairly small one but likely to create a lot of angst for her.  That will lessen in time and you have made the situation better.  Realize that as you make changes, things may in fact get worse for awhile - the dark before the dawn but it pays off in a peace of mind you may actually be surprised by.