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So I discovered that my dBPDh has been looking at apartments. I asked him about it and he says he feels "claustrophobic". I asked if he wanted me to move out of our place and in with my parents for a little while. No. That won't help, he needs a change of place. I asked if he felt like he needed to run away. Yes. Can I go with him? No. He'll pay for two apartments for us (we 100% can't afford this). He wants to move in the next 2 weeks but we have to give our current landlord 2 months notice (unless he can find new tenants faster than that). Also, we only have one car and he needs it for work - that would leave me completely stuck. We obviously can't afford a second car.

Okay, now if anyone has been following my story, my H dysregulated back in December and that came to a crisis point in February (cumulating in suicidal ideation, etc). He's under the care of a psychiatrist but he won't go unless I make his appointments and talk him into it. He does need to go - he has medication that needs monitoring and adjusting, etc. Plus, the P wants him to come in every few weeks. So he's a little more stable now (i.e. not suicidal) but still completely dysregulated.

This all happened once before - exactly 10 years ago, exactly the same way - but he wasn't seeing a doctor at that time and he hadn't been diagnosed with BPD. Over the past 10 years he's been quite normal and functional. We got married 5 years ago. Last time it took him until July to feel better, then he said it was "like a light switch being flipped, suddenly everything was different and nothing I'd done for the past 6 months made any sense". So he dissociated (or so I surmise).

So now I'm tied in knots. I feel ill. We were supposed to be working things out, taking things slow, not making any major decisions right now, etc. He had been feeling slightly better and I thought things were going at least okay. Apparently not. Or maybe they were, but this is a bad week - his NPD father got in touch and demanded an audience, he hates holidays (it's Easter), his uBPDgf (we have an open r/s) sent email that he found very upsetting (she's in an 'unavailable'/push phase), and I was in a very minor fender bender (totally fine, very minimal damage, etc).

We can't afford two apartments. There's the car issue. He gets depressed living alone (he's brought this up in the past). He won't see his doctor without intervention/assistance (recall he was suicidal before the new prescriptions). I don't know what to do/say. He says he still loves me but he just doesn't think things will work out, etc. (exact same thing 10 years ago). So do I believe him this time? He says it's different, not the same as 10 years ago at all.  And, in any event, is there anything I could say to try to stall him? Buy more time? Lessen the "claustrophobia"? I know I can't actually stop him from leaving, but it really is a bad idea.

Sorry, I'm all over the place with this post. I'm just a bit of a mess right now. (And I can't stop shaking!)

Oh my gosh Arabella.  As you can imagine, this reminds me quite a bit of my pwBPD's sudden flight to destination unknown, which does appear to have been driven by a feeling of claustrophobia -- a need to change something, anything, because where he was sitting, things just felt bad.

Of course changing things up isn't going to make the bad feelings go away either. As you know.  But it sounds like he's likely to do a lot of damage while he gets to that point where the switch flips again and he realizes it didn't make sense to make this move.

I'd be shaking too.  Two months or so ago when my pwBPD told me he'd sold his place -- when as far as I knew it was just a hypothetical possibility -- and wasn't sure where he was going or when or whether he'd be back ... . I remember just sitting in my car sobbing.  I thought I had no expectations but it turned out I didn't think that included such fundamental things.

It is just really really hard to care deeply about someone who will upend everything on the off-chance that it will feel better to completely re-arrange their life.

I'm sure you'll figure out the best way to handle the logistics of this, but I wonder if doing things to give yourself some control of your own situation would feel a bit better for you.  Like pre-emptively moving in with your parents, and saying he can move in two months.  If he moves before that, it's his responsibility to pay for the apartment you currently share, because you've done what you can to give him space you can both afford.  Just some step so you know you have a place to be that doesn't depend on his decision-making.

I'm sorry, this sounds really really hard.  

P&C! I was so hoping to hear from you, I thought you might relate - so thanks! 

You're absolutely right that he's just trying drastic things in the hopes he'll suddenly feel better. And, of course, he won't. He did this last time too - moved out to a cheap apartment on his own. Wallowed. Didn't feel better until the 'switch flipped'. It's that old saying: no matter where you go, there you are. I wish he could understand that. He comprehends it when it comes to other people - we've discussed this very thing at length regarding my sister who follows the running pattern (she's in intensive therapy now and is SO much better, she's stopping running).

I wonder if he'd go for the two month stall tactic you suggest? I will bring that up for him to consider. He says he's willing to pay for two apartments, so I know he'll come through financially, but we really just can't afford it. I'm not working right now (desperately job searching, interviewing, etc) so that's making things worse too. I'm a stress basket. Plus, as I said, I'm actually really worried about leaving him on his own (nothing I can do, I know, I know)... .

Have I mentioned how hard it was after the last time to get things back on track after the flip-flop? He felt super guilty and ashamed by his own behaviour and then didn't know if he could get past THAT in order to be with me again. (Obviously he managed.) So I see that storm coming too... .  

I'm adding more questions as I think of them... .

Do you think it will be okay to bring up these practical issues? i.e. the money, the car. I don't want to send him further down the spiral of feeling 'trapped' but... . And if I do bring them up, how do I do that most effectively? I guess just SET and keep fingers crossed? Anything I can add? Or avoid? Would it be really bad to mention that his running away hasn't helped in the past? (He did this to another longterm gf before me, plus the incident 10 yrs ago, and he still regrets those.) I just don't know what to talk about - or not.

And to add to this... . we would have had some buffer money except that he ran away on vacation for a month in January (to see the on/off BPDgf) and spent most of our savings. Obviously the vacation didn't help. He didn't feel any better afterward. (Again, running away doesn't work!) So the money thing is a bit touchy now too. Plus, he resents that we don't have more money b/c I'm not working (not an issue AT ALL before he dysregulated) and he feels he should be able to spend his money as he likes (this is a brand new attitude too). We have joint finances and I've contributed just as much over the years as he has. Ugh!

That's quite a lot going on.     

What are you doing to take care of yourself through all this?

It's sad to watch them spin out of control - like he is doing right now.  You have a right to express your concerns to him and using SET is the best way to do that.  Take control over what you can - yourself and your actions.  Make sure you have access to money. 

It might also help to think about some of your boundaries in this relationship.  He doesn't go to the doctor on his own.  He allows his drama-queen girlfriend to affect his relationship with you.  He spends money that you don't have.  He wants to move out.  What are your values and thoughts about these things.  Assume he never changes - what are your limits, what can you do to make sure your needs are met?

Right now, it sounds like you are kind of ready to just let him do whatever in hopes that the "storm" will soon pass.  The problem with ducking and covering is that in the case of BPD, it simply encourages more storms.  This is his third one like this.   

Hi

Arabella, there's a German opera entitled "Arabella"!

   I have questions---

---You wrote that it's an open relationship---has it been like that before you got married? How do you feel about it? Does he discuss details of other relations with you? are there boundaries re: this you agreed on?

----Does his psycvh know about his impulsive acts---it may be "bordering" on bipolar disorder?

Shatra

Arabella - I can relate to what you have said in so many ways.  My pwBPD has been leaving me on and off for the better part of the year.  He keeps spinning out of control - any triggers takes him to the extreme.

So now I'm tied in knots. I feel ill. We were supposed to be working things out, taking things slow, not making any major decisions right now, etc. He had been feeling slightly better and I thought things were going at least okay. Apparently not. Or maybe they were, but this is a bad week I am living the exact same dynamic.  I know how you feel.

I feel like I am living waiting and watching for the next storm.    during your hard time.

Briefcase - thanks! I think "a lot going on" may be an understatement at this point?  I'm trying really hard to find work, going out with friends, getting exercise, and talking the ear off my sister. Drinking a lot of herbal tea, trying to eat healthy, etc. It's really hard to stay focused or motivated though. I have a bit of money saved, in my own account, just in case... . but it's not a whole lot. Thankfully my parents are very supportive so I won't end up on the street or anything.


This is hard. When he isn't dysregulated (so for the past 10 years), he's very responsible and level-headed, none of these issues exist. I'm totally pissed off about everything BUT I also know that he's in a state of dissociation and this version of my husband is only making his second appearance for me. If he never comes back around, he won't want to stay married. This 'evil-H' (as he himself has called this alter-ego in the past) doesn't want a serious relationship, doesn't really love anyone at all, and would just end things. I'd have to resign myself to a divorce and move on alone. As for my boundaries... . I wouldn't put up with this from 'regular-H', but then, that guy wouldn't do these things. So it's confusing.

And you're right, this is the third storm. But only the third in 15 years and only the second with me. It totally didn't occur to me that this would happen again. I mean, a 10 year break is a pretty long time! Plus, he's been on medication for the past 6 years and seeing a P, so I thought that would hold him steady enough not to dissociate. Clearly I was wrong. So now - do I wait out this storm and then try to deal with the mess afterwards with 'regular-H'? Or do I try to do something with evil-H (which is all I have atm)? 

After much drama, the opera has a happy ending! *fingers crossed*

We agreed to an open r/s before we married, yes. We adjusted our vows to accomodate that. It usually works well, it's challenging for sure, but neither of us is big into monogamy so this is less pressure and more natural for our particular situation. We don't discuss all of the details of our other dates, but we do share - I've met all of his girlfriends in the past. We do have boundaries, this most recent debacle is crossing some of them and it would usually result in some serious talking and re-prioritizing. He's not willing to discuss it, I don't even think he knows what he thinks. He's acting on impulse and my boundaries are being ignored/trampled so much as he just can't even see me - nevermind my boundaries! All he can think of is day-to-day self preservation, it's weird, like watching a panicked animal run.

His P has been trying to stabilize the depression crisis. He knows about the vacation but not the circumstances. He doesn't know about this recent set of events - the moving out, looking at changing jobs, etc. I know last visit P told H not to make any major decisions AT ALL. (As if H is going to listen?) H won't tell P half of this stuff. I was considering calling P myself but I dunno... . do I just sound like a crazy, controlling, codependant wife?

And a YEAR? I think I'd completely lose my marbles. Seriously, I'm on month 3.5 and I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown here. Want to come hang out with me? lol

Hi Arabella,

Well, I can relate to this topic myself. My BPD Husband started doing this to me in 2005.  folie

He had a knack for blaming me for his depression, immaturity, selfishness, etc... and would walk out on the family.

Leaving me high and dry with all the bills and little to no money, sometimes a poorly running car or no car.

I always catered to his "issues" along with his MIL (poor,poor,baby all these issues he has, all because of me!) (yeah right) 

This last time, exactly a year ago he pulled this crap again, I mean 3 kids, no money,utilities ready to be disconnected, car that barely ran, and what was this emotionally distressed man doing on his own? sitting in the bars with his buddies every night, spending money on fun items, not being a father, not being a husband, not being a man. 

I had it this time, he hurt our kids and put me through hell. I was crying, shaking, alone and he was having a great time.

I also found out that while he was taking this vacation from life, him and his BPD mom were putting it all on me, I was such a bad person he just has to walk off on his responsibilities. 

After 3 months of me being a sucker, I wised up  :light: got mad and filed for child support, divorce, and refused to take his calls or speak to him. I started doing projects around the house and meeting new people.

Wow... . mr pity party suddenly was better, suddenly wanted to talk to me, suddenly didn't want to be on vacation anymore.

I dumped all the responsibilities in his lap and told him he can take care of himself and his responsibilities or suffer the consequences.

He was in therapy within weeks, his mother got sent packing, he was home paying the bills and doing what he was suppose to.

Im sorry, but your husband sounds like he is taking full advantage of you, being selfish, and you are sitting there letting him decide how your life will go.

Take back that control over your life, stop babying him, get the outsiders out of your marriage, get him to therapy with you, and set boundaries.

I will bet his attitude will change quick, he suddenly will not be on this poor me party, etc... when he realizes you are not taking it, he still has responsibilities and you will not allow outsiders to run your marriage.

Good luck and be in control, and stop babying him! 

Hi krista!

I'm so sorry to hear you went through all that! Ugh! And it's times like this that I am thankful that we don't have children involved.

Interestingly enough, my husband doesn't really blame me for this. He says it's not me but he just can't be around me and "it's us" (translation: it's him). Sometimes he even admits it's him.

I think I discussed this a while back, on another thread, about the 'moving on' and 'hard hitting' tactic. I was trying to decide if that would help or just make things worse (in terms of his mental health). Last go-round we split up entirely and I told him I wouldn't consider getting back together until he cleaned up his act. We were LC and mostly only saw each other at the gym. Didn't make any difference. It took another 4 months for the switch to flip. Regardless, I am doing my own thing now too.

I can't really take back the open marriage thing. It was mutually agreed upon and it is something that isn't an issue for me. I just don't like this particular GF and the circumstances. At least she's out of the country, I suppose. He won't go to therapy and I think I discussed the boundaries problem on here somewhere (sorry, lot of posting/ranting today!)... . So... . I could file for divorce, fight with him, move out and leave him to deal with all our stuff (but, umm, I kinda of want the stuff!)... . I don't know. He'll willing to pay for everything so that's not much of a threat. I guess I could take the car?

I'm finally "done" with this. 

For a long time, I would talk my BPDH out of moving out because we can't afford it, but I realize now that not only can I not stop this nonsense, but I really need him out of my life.

When he first filed for divorce last fall, I happily learned that the courts ordered him to pay all household bills as the breadwinner.  that was a huge shock for him because he thought he could just merrily move into an apt and let the house go back to the bank.

Now, he's finally moved out and I have no idea how he's going to pay the house bills plus his new year lease for more than he can afford. 

He's also going to be ordered to pay my support... . ha ha.  He's going to find that he'll literally have no money left for all of this wasteful expenses.  I'm actually loving this.

Good for you, SadWife! I'm glad that you found out about your legal rights and are able to move forward. You sound like you're in a good place now. :)

We're not in divorce territory quite yet. I really don't want to go there. I've had 12 years of a good r/s - minus the 6 months 10 years ago and the 3.5 months so far now. I want to fix this! At the very least, I want to give it a chance to be fixed, you know? Dammit, we were saving up for our future and now... .   :'(

  Arabella,

Do you think there is some under lying reason for this sudden wanting a apartment of his own?

From having a fresh set of eyes on your relationship, to me it looks like a result of mind games.

You mentioned the email from this woman that shes in a push/pull type mode right now.

Sounds like she is manipulating telling him that she cant be in this type of relationship, if hes married etc... . she will have to move on.

Could this apartment thing be his way of making this woman content and buy time with her?

I re read my initial post, sorry for sounding so hostile and attacking, I am projecting my own resentments at my husband and myself, not you dear. sorry...

Krista - no worries! I know we're all dealing with really tough situations, your post was a great reminder that I need to take care of myself too. I didn't feel like you were attacking, plus, it's good to get a reality check sometimes. Thank you for taking the time to post here and try to help me out!

I'm not sure if the GF is behind the moving out or not. As far as I know she wasn't planning to move back to our area in the near future anyway... . But then, she is exactly the type to make ridiculous demands that make no sense. To be honest though, my H could just lie to her and tell her he moved out - she'd have no way of knowing and he'd have the benefit of both worlds (I know that sounds awful) so I'm not sure he'd move for that reason.

A few things to ponder... .

Did his GF know you were in an open relationship?

If she did not, and if they became close, her wish for him to move out and have a life with her and unwillingness to continue r/s otherwise would not be an "unreasonable demand"

If she did, can it be that her feelings - or your husband's - or both - changed? It's been known to happen often

Are you sure he could lie to her and tell her he moved out when he did not? What would happen if she asked to send her a pic of his new place? If she wanted to call at 2am? If she wanted to come over and visit?

You say that you cannot take back the open marriage agreement. No agreement is set in stone. People's feelings change. As we all know (and pwBPD show us that all the time). The only things certain in this world are death and taxes :)

Have you considered swinging?

Hi Sunflowerfields!

I've met GF - she knew the deal when she signed up for this r/s, it was very clear (there are even emails discussing it). This is part of the reason I think she's unreasonable, but there are others as well - she has very strong NPD traits and she isn't above using guilt and manipulation (and outright lying) to get what she wants. She just isn't a very nice person. It's clear to me that her and my H's feelings have evolved over time, that's fine, but it isn't fine for that to then interfere with my r/s with my H (I realize how odd that sounds). Basically, the two relationships should coexist without triangulation or exclusivity... . Maybe this is asking too much from a pwBPD? Or maybe it would be fine if he wasn't dissociated?

As for the practicalities of lying to GF - H could send photos of himself from any old place, or take pics of a friend's apartment or whatever, he has a cell phone and that's the only # she has, and she can't visit without booking a plane ticket first. If she moves back here then that's a whole other story... . I asked though, and H says he has no idea if/when she's coming back and that's not the impetus behind the moving thing.


Thank you for this reminder. I do need to remember that changes might be necessary if we continue forward. I know a lot of my feelings have already changed so it's time for me to rethink a lot of my boundaries and agreements with H.


How do you mean? As in dating as a couple rather than individually?

Yikes, this is crazy-making stuff here!   I'm wishing you the best... . I know you will survive it!

One way of looking at it is to consider the situation you actually are afraid of, see how you would survive it, and then once that is worked out, take a deep breath and look at "easier" options.

Along those lines, I've got some "practical" thoughts about apartments and such, exploring your options if your BPDH does go through with it and move out... . since you obviously don't have very much influence over him in this regard right now 

You say you need to give your current landlord 2 months notice:

Q1A: Do you personally like where you are living? If he were to move out, would you want to stay there?

Q1B: Would it be significantly cheaper for you to get a smaller apartment than to stay where you are? (long-term after moving expenses / being on the hook for rent / etc.)

Q1C: Would your job prospects be better if you did move? Other aspects in your life?

Q1D: How is your relationship with your landlord... . if you were to explain to him that your husband was going wacko and trying to move out, would you get sympathy and some accommodation while you try to make the best of it / wait for him to get his act back together.

Q1E: How long would you be comfortable living with your parents?

Then... . what about the car? Living together and having only one car isn't good for you. Living apart if he drives the car away is a lot worse.

Q2A: Whose name is the car in?

Q2B: If you were to buy a second car... . would YOU prefer that he buy a one for himself, or would you prefer to buy one for yourself? In his current state, would he buy something impractical and overly expensive? (Mid-life crisis edition red convertible?)

Q2C: Do you think that anything relating to the car would possibly encourage him to slow down from rash stupid stuff? (Sounds like a long shot, but I'm hoping!)

And lastly and most importantly:

How is he treating you now?

He's talking about moving out, and taking steps to do so. That has huge impact on you. But is his other behavior toward you changing? Raging? Abusive? Silent Treatment? Changes in that or anything else?

Good questions GK! Okay, here goes... .

1A: This is a really nice apartment but it holds a lot of memories now. I also loathe moving.

1B: I could find a cheaper apartment, yes. I'd have to get my parents to help pay first/last if I'm still on the hook here and he's also paying first/last on a new place (that's a lot of cash all at once). There's probably no point in moving out of here while I'm still paying rent.

1C: Job prospects only improve if I move to another city. That particular city is extremely expensive. I would need to have the job before I relocated (providing proof of employment is standard). My friends and family are more local to where I am now.

1D: My landlord may or may not help me out. You mean accept partial payments for a few months or something?

1E: I love my parents. My mother will drive me crazy inside of 2 weeks. I can probably suck it up for up to 2 months if need be (I've lived there as an adult before, once 10 years ago when this happened the first time, and once with my H for awhile). This is not ideal but probably what is going to happen at least in the short term.

2. The car: my parents have two cars and not a lot of use for them. If I stay with them I'll have access to a vehicle. This helps me out a lot, especially if I'm trying to get to job interviews or work. Actually, if I get a job I'll have to find a place closer to work - my parents live in a small town that's just not convenient to anything.

2A: Car is in both our names.

2B: I'd rather keep our car. We couldn't afford anything as nice (not that ours is fancy, but it's in good condition) and I don't want to be the one stuck driving something unreliable. He's gotten paranoid about money suddenly and doesn't want to spend on anything (except running away) so I know he'd buy the cheapest used car he could find. Or he might get himself a motorcycle to save $.

2C: Yeah, well... . So I brought up about the 2 months notice, paying double rent, the car, etc. He got pretty pissed off and said I had effectively 'trapped' him. Right. So now he's waiting a bit but I'm supposed to either get a job and an apartment, or move in with my parents. For the moment he thinks maybe he can live with staying in this apartment, for practical reasons. He refuses to consider staying together here for more than 3 weeks. I can hear the ticking of the clock. Now he's mad that this 'arrangement', where I'm forced to move out, makes him feel like he kicked me out and he's a jerk.

His behaviour toward me... . It varies a LOT: cold, mostly silent anger; frustration; usual old self; etc. He doesn't rage (unless you count the quiet seething). He's not abusive (well, there's the emotional toll, etc. but he's not trying to hurt me directly) - he mostly acknowledges that it's not me. Honestly, it's like dealing with multiple personalities. I was discussing this on a thread posted by NonGF... . There is definitely dissociation going on. It's awful.

These things you brought up sound like a good application of S.E.T. They are all realities that will hit him (and you both) in the ass with no regard to what either of you want. If there are more of those coming up, keep working on techniques like that.

|iiii If he's being a jerk, and you don't do anything to let him get out of feeling like a jerk, good for you!

|iiii Getting a job is high on your list of things you want to do too. (I am guessing you have told him this) Too bad it is easier said than done... .


Yeah, it is awful. But at least it doesn't sound physically dangerous, and that is more than some people on these boards can say! I was afraid that things were degenerating in other ways you hadn't mentioned yet. It doesn't sound like there is much of anything in there that you can apply effective boundaries to either.

Sounds like you know what you want on the car--It is good to know what you want, so you can better negotiate for it.

Next practical/logistical idea... .

Oh yeah... . back to Q1D with the landlord... . I was thinking first, patience with not paying rent... . (FYI, it takes quite a while to actually evict somebody, and much longer if they are slow to get onto the legal process; If it comes to that, do your own research... . I think these laws vary a lot by locality or state)

I was also thinking about what if you told the landlord you were moving out in two months, then said you wanted to change your mind a month later and stay... . or just told him that your husband was going wacko, and you probably couldn't afford to stay unless he came to his senses, threw yourself on the landlord's mercy and asked what he could do for you in a difficult situation.

Q3: You say your job prospects are better farther away from your current apartment. I gather your husband's job is stable. If you get a job some distance away, how will your new location work with his job location / current apartment?

I don't really have anything to offer other than what GreyKitty said.  It sounds like you're doing a good job of not letting him walk all over you.  Yes, let him feel like a jerk when he's been a jerk... . natural consequences, right?

I did want to say that this sounds so familiar:


This is how my bf is when he's upset.  He won't talk about it.  He just gets very tense, quiet, stiff, and withdrawn.  "Seething" is a great adjective.  He's also calmed down and acknowledged, "You didn't do anything wrong," after having an angry moment.  These moods swing wildly in contrast with this other version of him that is so sweet, empathetic, understanding, and tender.  I can't imagine if we lived under the same roof like you guys.  

Thanks for keeping up with me GK and NonGF! Sorry for the delayed - the holiday sort of snuck in there and disrupted my computer access.


You're very right, GK - my situation could be a lot worse. My H has never been violent in any way, he doesn't even threaten. His behaviour is all over the place but never quite so bad as to make me want to leave - nothing to focus on to help let go. It's easier to live with (and safer!) but it feels so much harder to walk away from. It's like he's almost still here... .   almost reachable... .   :'(

H's job is very stable and secure. We'd discussed in the past my job options. One of the reasons I'm not working is because we agreed that commuting to the 'main' metropolis in our region would be too much - the time and effort would take over my life entirely. So I've been looking in smaller cities and the one we're currently in but haven't found anything in my field (or close to my field even). I may end up in the 'metro'  just because there is more available there. I'd have to move closer and get my own apartment. We could both move closer and it wouldn't be as convenient for H but it would still be fine for at least a year or two until I can transfer again. What I could afford on my own wouldn't be enough for both of us to live in if we work things out though and I'd have to sign a year-long lease. I also don't know how long it will take to find a job, but I still have to be out of our apartment within the month. But I'm not so sure living with my parents is a good idea either. I'm really not sure where to go for temporary (safe and affordable) living. And this is the sort of thing that keeps me up at night.


It feels like he's calling all the shots though. I'm doing my best to keep up but ultimately he just does what he wants and I cry and scurry around trying to fix the mess for myself. I know this won't help, but I just want, for once, to be the person making the unreasonable demands and do whatever I want, spring crap on him at the last minute, and watch HIM scramble around (he wouldn't though). I know that's immature; I can't help it - I'm so worn out.

Oh, and I told him the point isn't that he's kicking me out, it's that he's abandoning our relationship. Because his solution is for him to move out - thus no guilt because he didn't "kick me out". Way to not get the point. The reason I'm moving is because I might need a place closer to transit or another city - we can't both get new apartments and keep this one too.

" She just isn't a very nice person. It's clear to me that her and my H's feelings have evolved over time, that's fine, but it isn't fine for that to then interfere with my r/s with my H (I realize how odd that sounds). Basically, the two relationships should coexist without triangulation or exclusivity... .   "

I was in an open-relationship with my BPD ex, and I had problems with the outside females being similar. Whenever I would bring this to his attention, he'd accuse me of being insanely jealous and a huge btch. I'm one to admit when I'm being jealous, but my feelings weren't about jealousy. I just felt these women enabled his behavior. Do you feel that way sometimes?

At this point, you have to let him make the mistake and when he starts stressing he will realize he can't do it and come back. The more you try to tell him that it's a bad idea, the more he'll be prone to do it.

Yup, I get the "you're just jealous" line too. He is admitting this the current GF has some serious issues at least. The current GF is absolutely an enabler. She eggs him on and doesn't give a whit for his mental health. She also does the constant push/pull because she likes the extra attention.

The trick is trying to decide which mistakes to let him see through and which ones affect me too much so I have to intervene. I'm constantly questioning my own judgement too.

Yes. But the actual situation is more complicated--many shots are being called by that thing called reality. (jobs, cars, apartments, etc.) Other things are his own loud issues and flailing around to deal with it. (badly)   

None of that do you have any control over. Sadly, he doesn't have much either from the sound of it.


Just watch out and try not to cross that line between keeping your life sane and enabling his crap... .  

Hang in there... .   sounds like you are doing the best you can in the situation... .   which really sucks.

Good call. Umm... .   How do I tell the difference exactly? This goes back to constantly questioning my own judgement. For example - convincing him to see his doctor and talking to his doctor about symptoms that my H can't see for himself (e.g. dissociative episodes), is that good or bad? And what is the difference between 'enabling' and helping someone to calm down so that they sleep or stop dissociating? Because having him calm makes my life a lot easier... .   But is my 'help' just enabling him? Gah. So confusing!

Uhm... .   enabling is protecting HIM from consequences, and keeping yourself sane is protecting YOU from consequences?

Haha - yes, GK, that makes sense! I actually started a thread on this topic of enabling because it does confuse me... .   I think my issue is that a lot of HIS consequences directly affect ME. The more he dysregulates the more I have to compensate. Plus, I don't want to live with an angry, cranky, miserable jerk who can barely function. (Bearing in mind that when he's not dissociating he's quite a nice guy and requires very little input from me at all.)

There is also the problem (actually, maybe this is the main problem) that he can't properly attribute his emotional state. So, if he is upset by something he just blames the closest available person or event - usually me. GF sends a mean email? He's angry, disappointed, frustrated, sad (but can't accurately name those emotions, of course) and sees me sitting here and decides that our r/s isn't going to work because when he's around me he feels bad and everything is hopeless. Do I try to help him sort through this? GF is definitely his problem, but now she's become mine as well. He's avoiding the doctor because it stresses him out. So I make his appointments. I'm definitely enabling his avoidance, etc. but I need him to be medicated properly and not dysregulate further. Slippery slope... .  

Err... .   wrong on one part. GF is causing problems for you. But unless you have much more of a direct relationship with her than you've mentioned to date, she is NOT your problem!

But back to the difference between the enabling / keeping yourself sane... .   making appointments for him to see the doc so he stays medicated is somewhere on the slope.

But when it comes to your H aiming all the ugly emotions he gets from a nasty email from his GF at you... .   that sure bites... .   but the only thing you can do is step out of the path of his negative crap when he does that. That's where the enabling (or walking on eggshells) starts to come in.

(Hmm... .   why is it so clear when I look at your situation... .   compared to when I try to figure it out for myself lol )

Yes, I need to remember that distinction between 'causing me problems' and 'being my problem'. Is it wrong to wish someone would just fall off the planet?

Staying out of the path of negativity is harder than it sounds, isn't it? H seems to take an all-or-nothing approach with his emotional swings. So if he's upset about an email he's also upset about making dinner or how fast the internet pages are loading. And he doesn't realize that it's the email that upset him in the first place (I don't usually piece it together until far after the fact myself). I have these moments where I wonder if separating might be easier, just to escape the drama. It's not a solution though, it's just avoidance.

We got into an argument yesterday over the separation issue. His P suggested we talk about it more (this was such a stupid suggestion, why did I go along with it?) So we got into a fight over the practicalities of one of us moving out and all that happened was that I had to re-convince H that my moving out was a better idea than him moving out. For some reason though, H really wants to be the one to move - part of the 'running away' concept I guess?

It's bizarre to watch him try to reconcile 'the r/s is the problem' and 'it matters which one of us physically moves'. He's decided he feels guilty for 'kicking me out' if I'm the one leaving. I told him again that it's not the moving that's the issue, it's his abandoning the r/s and leaving me in a lurch regarding job/finances/transportation - I thought we were a team. Then he decided he feels guilty for not wanting to take care of me anymore. So now he's mad at me because I make him feel guilty. I pointed out that I don't 'make' him feel anything so there was nothing I do about that. I'm alternating between sobbing and silently raging - it's exhausting.