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I finally broke on my wife of 7 years, and when she was pushing me away by telling me that she wouldn't marry me today and that she wants a divorce, I let her walk out the door thinking that I was okay with this--for the first time in our marriage.  She has now split me black and is very negative towards me about anything and everything.  We are separated. 

My question is: now that I realize how much pain she must be going through to polarize me the way that she has, I wish I could just reach out and give that little girl who was abandoned by her mother and let down by her father a hug, tell her that everything is going to be okay, and let her know just how love-able she is--and how sorry I am for triggering her deep seated feelings of being unlove-able.  This seems impossible because of the way she treats me--like dirt.  But my question is, has anyone been able to do this?  Been successful?  Lived to see another day?   

Is there a way to get past the hardened exterior of someone like my wife and at least let her know how sorry I am?  How can I communicate with someone who thinks that anything nice that I do is manipulation?  My sweet, beautiful, and loving wife has become thoroughly hidden behind a wall of negativity, and the only thing I want at this point is for her to move on in life with an understanding that she is wonderful and worthy of love.  Can this be done? 

This is so hard - I'm sorry to hear you're having to go through something like this! Hopefully you can find support here to help you through.

Has this happened with your wife before - the being painted black I mean? I'm just wondering what she is usually like or how long her moods usually last. It seems like some people never come back from being painted black and others cycle through on a regular basis. Mine always comes back around, but that's just him (and this time is a little different too so I'm floundering along with you, BPDGrant!)

You know, we married young and were really the first true loves of each other's lives.  So while she has (I now can see) split other things black (our church, her jobs, her degree when she didn't like it, her situation in life, her friends), she has never split me black before so I didn't realize what was happening until it was too late.  She has been upset with me and decided not to talk to me, she has left the room or house, but this time was different. 

She wanted marriage counseling to begin with, but I was busy working three jobs and going to law school.  I didn't understand that the stress of law school and our two children was getting to her so much.  She decided to go and see a psychologist personally, and when she came home it was all doom and gloom from that point on about our marriage.  She had decided that I was abusive, and began what felt like a purposeful effort to push me towards any argument she could--e.g., she would that I hadn't done the dishes when they were done, and she continued to argue about this even after realizing that her, nor our toddlers, did the dishes. 

In the middle of finals, we were watching a movie one night and the guy proposed to his wife--at which point she let me know that she wouldn't marry me nowadays and didn't love me.  Because it was the winter and she usually gets down, I hadn't brought up the pornographic romance that I stumbled upon on our shared computer that was about a woman who left a loving husband to have graphic affairs, so she didn't know how much that statement really hurt.  I slept on the couch for two days--a first--before I took my ring off to address her about the guilt I felt for standing in the way of her finding romance.  She was really hurt by this. 

When we got home from visiting family over the holidays, I let her know early in the morning that I needed to see my internship at the public defender's office, and inadvertently dozed until 4pm.  Asking her why she had not woken me, it was 4pm, she gave the response that it wasn't her responsibility, she had no responsibility to the relationship, and that she wanted a divorce--and immediately slipped her ring off her finger--for the first time I boomed that I was fine with that, and ever since then, she has become more and more bitter towards me.  I don't even recognize her anymore, but she is hell bent on divorce.  I made sure that her and the kids were in the town home and moved out, and she has become so vile it is astounding--she would rather move out into section 8 housing, work a dead end job, and give up our shared dreams of her going onto her Phd than do marriage counseling, which she was withholding during her personal counseling sessions in the first place. 

I don't know what to do, and am also certain that her psychologist (who has an MA in counseling from an online university) has no idea that I cannot even communicate with her about the children, or anything that has really gone on inside our home.  At this point, I am now battling a bevy of false allegations too, which I can't in good conscious apologize for. 

So to make a short story long, no I have never been painted black before.  But along the way, adapting and trying to make her happy, the only people that she has left in her world are negative influences that are responsible for ratcheting up the divorce rhetoric in the first place.  Still, under her tough exterior, knowing what causes BPD, I see a little girl in pain every time that she is negative towards me, and I would give anything to help her to move on in life with an understanding that she is so love-able, and that she shouldn't feel otherwise. 

It has been 4 months now, and she still hates me.  The longest that we have ever been upset at each other before was for a few hours, at which point one of us would reach out to the other and try to make things right again.  This is why being painted black is such a shocking thing to me now--it is hard to see that this is what is going on until it is you. 

I wish I could give YOU a hug!

Maybe you could craft a really clever email to give her a cyber hug?  Like a ((hug))?

Deep down, maybe it would make her feel glad that someone cares, even if she still acts angry at you.

lollol

I'm a guy and straight and I wanna give him a hug too!

+1 for being a good decent person... . that is the way to go and it's not easy... .   as I know... .

Yeah, I think I'm being naive about the cyber hug.  I think there is a way to do it, just being very clever about it.  I think you deserve to give her a hug for nothing else other than your own peace of mind because you care about her so much.  If you could see a shrink who deals with BPD women, maybe you could get some ideas.

I wish you could give ME a hug (just kidding).  Actually, my soon to be ex hubby with BPD gives great hugs... .   I will miss them when we split up.  But his moods are too hard to deal with, with small children.

During my marriage I tried both: cyberhugs and live hugs.

The cyberhugs led to digital fights and the two times I tried a real hug she reacted very aggressively.

You know Momtara, the hardest thing about this whole experience is knowing that she was right at the time, but also understanding for the first time--after reading Walking on Eggshells--what I could have done to spare my family all of this pain.  It used to be natural to really sit back and understand her, but after years of trying to hold things together when she made impulsive decisions, I stopped trusting her decision making.  

I feel like I was going through the motions of trying to help her--I sacrificed a lot of study time to come home early so she could get out the Barnes and Noble and the university gym, encouraged her to enroll in a fun creative writing course, but I don't know that I was really listening anymore.  I would even try to end arguments by giving her a hug at the time (nowt that VeryScared has pointed this out) and she would just push me away and scream at me for trying to "pretend" to be the better person--which I didn't understand.  She needed to be loved differently than I did, and when the stress of law school kicked in and I wasn't my naturally laid back self, I just didn't know how to do this.  She needed space when she was getting upset, and validation that I didn't know how to give. 

I'm sure her psychologist is well intentioned (trying to help a perceived damsel in distress, just as I once did), but I'm not sure that he understands just how much he enabled my wife's reckless behavior.  When someone is screaming names at you--really she's just projecting, I now understand--and responds to a request that we not treat each other in this manner in front of the kids by alleging that such a request is abusive, it is really hard to see how our relationship can work with small children too.  Yet after my 4 year old son replaced his bed-time stuffed animals with a mug I got for him at Sea World--the last time we were together as a family--and now seeing how much his mother's mood is affecting him, it breaks my heart to understand that I had a choice, I could have reacted more compassionately towards his mother, and had I understood her push/pull mentality I probably would have.

 *welcome*

I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this.  Many of us here have been "painted black" by our partners over the years and it's a very painful experience. I know what its like to want to give my wife a hug to make her, and me, feel better.  Right now, the best things you can do are:

(1) Study for exams - your grades for the entire semester depend on them;

(2) Read the Lessons for Staying (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=6.0);

(3) Consider going to a therapist for yourself to help you develop healthy coping strategies; and

(4) Take care of yourself so you are strong for you, the kids, and her (in that order).

We don't know if she will change her mind and want to give the marriage another shot - many do, some don't.  if you do the above things, you will be in the best position to be there (and be strong) if she decides to try again.

You are among friends here.  Keep posting and ask questions.  

Thanks Briefcase.  It's hard to be mindful and live in the present when you are going through this, but you are right.  The toughest part for me has been that whenever I go to pick up the kids, she always has something negative to say to me and is trying so hard to reinforce her reality by trying to pick a fight.  Every time she does this, I think about what I could have done better to respond to her without saying something that she might also interpret as hurtful.  And every once and a while I feel like there is a crack in her armor and that I might be able to open up a discussion--the way things used to be before she began to focus on all the negatives.  So the hard part for me has been (1) to focus on the immense workload I have while (2) remaining open to moments where she may be giving me the opportunity to rectify the feelings that I have triggered in her, which is also something I feel that I need to be mindful of.  When we the fallout first happened, I was reading a lot of relationship advice books that followed the old adage of "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and I think this just reinforced her belief that I was abandoning her, so it has been tough to understand what I need to do to rectify this all.  Law school is a horrible place to have a relationship crisis. 

Make sure you read the Lessons.

Behind each nasty comment she makes when you see her is an emotion - and an opportunity to valide her feelings (but not her "facts".  Watch the Fruzzetti video in the lessons (Lesson 3, I think).  It takes practice, but if you are consistent, it might help open some doors with her.  There are no guarantees, but the Lessons have helped many people here.

BPDdaddy, you may or may not benefit from reading my story. You could look at my oldest posts.

Bottom line is that nothing got better for me until I learned to focus on myself, and doing whatever made sense in the situation I was in. I had to let go of the idea of fixing or controlling anything that my wife did.

You know, she is very sensitive towards anything I try to do to help her--it all resembles control to her right now.  I initially thought it would be good to get the friends that she has alienated over the years back in touch with her hoping that she might add things up and have some support in her increasingly isolated world, and it just compounded the situation. 

How do I view your posts?  It seems to disallow this for me. 

Right ... .   you probably need to pull back from frantic attempts to "fix" things. They aren't working, right?

Have you read the Lessons (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206) yet?



If you click my username, then click on "Show the last posts of this person", then jump to the last page (since they are listed in reverse chronological order).

If that doesn't work ... .   then I'm not sure :)

10, I figured it out.  Now I can see your posts. 

As far as what I am working on with her now, that was pretty much the extent of what I tried, other than trying to follow relationship advice books which probably made her feel more abandoned--I didn't realize that she was hard-wired differently at the time--and this was all within the first few weeks of it all. 

Since then, I have tried to stay focused on only discussing issues about the children, though she has attempted to engage me in arguments about what I did, where she will tell me what I did (which is inaccurate or totally false) and then yell at me for "harrassing", treating me as though I brought the subject up, when I try to get a word in edgewise so to explain.  (week 4-6)

Now, I have started to simply said "I'm sorry you feel that way", but this enrages her.  I will check out the lessons and try to learn. 

I think the tricky part here is that, other than an eating disorder that she developed when she was in high school and before we met, we married young and during the course of our marriage I have been very structured as a person, handled the finances, got us into school, worked to cover the expenses, and generally did everything needed to keep things running smoothly.  She hadn't ever seen me break down until we had our second child during our first semester of law school, and I broke.  Because of this, she hasn't ever really experienced the turmoil that comes from multiple chaotic-relationships, and she hasn't ever hit rock bottom--she has generally been very happy with life until we moved away from where we had a strong network, and out here for professional school (out here, she has had to take on much more responsibility to network with friends, budget--which I mistakenly entrusted to her, and generally run the home without me around).  

Because she was this great girl growing up--a smart, fun, yet shy--honors student, I never realized that she is very much like her grandma, her mother, and her sister (who has 6 children with 5 different men) who have all had tumultuous relationships and ended up living the trailer park life. Pre-law school, I was very pro-active and upbeat, and she adopted many of these traits--we ran two marathons together, were involved in the community and campus through my work performing marriages, non-profit groups I was involved in, and university leadership positions.  Because of this, she is un-diagnosed, and doesn't have a history that would indicate BPD to a professional because she has had what would seem like a stable relationship and lifestyle for so long.

I suppose that I see the moving parts involved in her circumstance, and how I have adapted so seamlessly that she hasn't seen the consequences of her choices, and worry about what she is capable of when she hits rock bottom since this is really an unknown.  But from what I have seen, it looks like I have to let her do this if she is finally going to get the help that she needs.  Is that, for the most part, the way this has to go?  

This story is almost word for word on what happened to me - I can' t beleive it.  I have been painted so black too - my wife has disowned my family, our friends, our church, heck anything to do with me - even places we used to go out to eat.  I have never in my life seen such a quick change in events.  The only difference I wanted marriage counciling she didn't - but her councilor convinced her too that I was this controlling, abusive, alcoholic, who had all these affairs - that may be why she disowned all of our friends, church, etc ... .   becuase they all know that's complet B.S... .   I have been painted white again - for an hour or a day - but it never lasts - give it an hour or a day and I'm completely black again... .   I too wish I could just give her a hug and let her know that I would have been with her, loved her, and been faithful until the day I died... .   however my T beleives she sabotaged the relationship forcing me to file - that way it proves to her how little I loved her (BS) - but I respected my boundaries, which she couldn't - I told her time and time again - Yes I filed - but it was your decesion by your words and actions/or lack of actions.

Hard to say. I don't think you can really predict the outcome of what she will do.

We were married ten years before my wife completely fell apart - had a "breakdown", "decompensated", whatever term you want to use. But there were warning signs, of course, which I either tried to ignore or didn't understand.


Time to take the focus off of her and focus on what you do have control over: you.

I guess that is all that I can do now.  Thanks for the support, it was nice reading through your posts and seeing how similar your reactions were to mine.  I think it does give me some hope that she will eventually figure things out.  If only there was an "off" switch that I could hit whenever my mind wants to think about the situation. 

It's a process    It takes time to retrain yourself.

":)etaching" doesn't mean that you don't love her. It means accepting that you are powerless to change what she does.

So true about the divorce thing Cal.  She threw it out there, and every time I would come over to see the kids, she would get on me about paying spousal support, stating what she was going to charge to my credit, etc., until I finally called her from the apartment I'm at one night and left her a message letting her know that since she seemed serious about divorce, I needed to cancel the cards that gave her access to my credit.  Two days later, she called me back raging at me with false allegations, and reinforcing that she was definitely going to be divorced at the first moment possible--it seemed, from her emotions, like she felt that it was me who decided to divorce her.  This was before I understood anything about BPD, so this whole time I was trying to follow her rules and let her know that if that was what she wanted, I was okay with that--the relationship advice books I read said this was the best approach, and I had no idea that I was re-enforcing her abandonment fears at the time.  

The last thing that I have to get out before I get back into my casebooks: I guess the hardest part about all of this is that my wife is so damned smart--definitely smarter than me--that I thought to myself "if I can add this all up, certainly she can." 

So I initially tried to explain why what happened, with her telling me that she didn't love me and wanting a divorce for no apparent reason, hurt so much--I brought up the pornographic romance she was writing that I stumbled upon in recent documents while working on our shared computer (totally against anything I ever thought she would be into), which she then turned into an accusation that I was "scouring through all" of her personal stuff.

I tried to bring friends that she has lost over the years--people that were there at the very beginning, or who we lost because she blew up our church affiliations--hoping that she could reconnect and understand how her actions have alienated people over the years, and just so that they could be there for her.  The only thing that I told them was that I broke my wife's heart and that she needed friends.  She has taken this as me saying that she has no friends, me trying to control her, and anyone that she suspects of talking to me gets tuned out or a heavy dosage of what a monster I am.  And ecause I talked to her about the initial pornography thing, she now thinks that I have slandered her with this to everyone she knows.  If she would just talk to them, she would realize that they only know how horrible I feel for having broke down on her while here at the law school. 

It just boggled my mind that such talented, and smart person--she can do advanced Calculus and has been published for her work on algae--wasn't able to add these things up.  And then after I realized the amount of denial a person will go through to avoid addressing the issues that she has from her childhood, I also realized that everything I did to reach her in those first few weeks made her feel like I was hurting her even more. 

That's not necessarily true.  It is hard to know how someone with BPD is thinking.  Deep down she has to know you care, on some level.

I am sure a lot of people with this illness are very smart.  But the part of them that splits people... .   doesn't necessarily follow logic.

You beat yourself up a lot and feel bad, but it's really hard to find the 'right' things to do.  Just hang in there and be consistently a good guy.

I've had this sort of thing happen to me with my dBPDh. I've also done that thing where I got so caught up in school that I didn't see some of the signs, etc. He's also a smart guy (multiple university degrees, etc) but a complete doorknob when it comes to handling major stress or our r/s.  

First of all, stop blaming yourself. That's not helpful and you'll make yourself crazy trying to second guess everything you've ever done. Second, stop trying to 'help' or 'fix' things for your wife. Don't point out her mistakes or try to get her to see your emotional side of things. All she'll see is that you think she's the problem, you're blaming her, you don't understand, you hate her, she's not good enough, etc. Again, not helpful (even if some/all of it's true) - it just sends her further into her spiral. You barely see your wife right now so, if you make those moments painful for her, that's all she'll remember and you won't get a chance to work on things down the road. And it is a long, long road. 

For me what has worked (to some degree) is to just validate and not bring up any 'issues'. If I get a painted white moment, I try to walk away before the black starts to creep in again. I give him space so that I'm not associated with his dark moods - otherwise he gets upset about something and since I'm there, he decides I'm the problem.   I don't know about your wife, but my H doesn't do well with extra people around. When he's upset or dysregulated he does better on his own, sorting through his mind - having friends around just adds more stress and pressure for him. Remember, pwBPD have difficultly with interpersonal relationships so adding more of them can backfire (mine gets panicky, stressed, and desperate to 'control' the situation - it's not fun).

No idea if any of that helps you at all, but I'd thought I'd share just in case you can use some of it! Sorry you're having to deal with this right now, it really sucks!

p.s. Yours is the second post I've replied to in the past 2 weeks re a dysregulated BPDw and trying to cope with law school at the same time. What a tough combo!

BPD is a mental illness. It isn't caused by you, and it definitely isn't caused by law school.

You didn't cause it, and you can't cure it. It's not about you.

An interesting thing happened last night that makes your message seem all the more prescient Momtara.  Since the beginning of this whole thing, when I show up to see the kids--and she leaves--I have been trying to serve my wife in little ways.  I've reminded myself that while I've been getting nothing but negative flack from her, she is hurting and deserves a little help, even if she acts like she doesn't.  

When it was apparent that she was having a tough time getting out and stocking the house with food, I started bringing and preparing dinner on my nights to see the kids an hour before she would come back from work with the kids from daycare.  Nothing but criticism about this.  I have also made sure that the house is spotless when I leave, that the dishes are done, kids scrubbed and in bed, and things are generally wound down so she can relax.  In a way, this is also preparation for the reality that I will be the main parent for our children if she does actually sign the settlement agreement and send it to the court--it has been sitting under a pile of mail for a month now.  

Last night I went through the thankless routine again not expecting anything but criticism.  Made pasta: she criticized me for defrosting the chicken in the microwave and sauteing with the tomatoes rather than beforehand.  Cleaned house, baby in bed with formula, son snacking on grapes while watching his last cartoon: nothing but a cold shoulder.  

Later that night after a basketball game at the gym, I got this text: "Appreciate that you cleaned."  It's the glimmer of hope I have seen since I broke her heart.  This is literally the first kind thing she has said to me, and for the first time, I don't know how to respond to her kindness.  :)o I?  I'm afraid that she will push me away if I do, but then again, if I don't at least hit the " :) " on my Blackberry like I normally would have when things were good, she may also be hurt for the lack of response.  It's a confusing thing, being painted black.

That actually is really helpful advice arabella.  I have noticed that when I breach anything related to the problems that caused the separation, even when she has brought it up, that she immediately recoils.  Our son caught pneumonia a month after we separated, and while we were in the hospital, she made what almost seemed like a joke about the erotic romance that she was writing.  I thought this was an opening and tried to explain that I innocently stumbled upon it, that I wasn't scouring through her personal items, at which point she snapped that she would not reconcile due to guilt--which didn't make sense at the time. 

I guess I've just been trying to practice a form of forgive and forget since that point, and have focused on only discussing issues about the children--mostly when she initiates this discussion, unless I really need some information--and doing what I can in a pending divorce situation to demonstrate that I care outside of words.  I think your right in that if I can build enough positives, that might give me the fairest shot and reconciling my family. 

Yep, so good news yesterday can only mean bad news today.  The roller coaster begins again. 

In our mediation agreement, I agreed that I would assume all of my debt--which was the largest amount due to the fact that my card was the one primarily used--she insisted that I could not use my truck to transport the children, and to rectify this, I would take the car and she would purchase her own.  So, I wasn't aware that the mediators would not be entirely clear with the statement, and they didn't include her solution to our one car problem.  So she has now reversed her position, she now wants the car too, and wants for me to finance another.  When I reminded her that she was the one who committed to purchasing her own car, she began to cuss me out for not agreeing to what was now the "best solution."  I had to tell her that I couldn't continue speaking with her if she was going to continue calling me names, and hung up when she wouldn't stop doing so. 

I suppose that divorce agreements with women who have BPD usually end with lawyers involved, don't they?  It becomes less expensive to hire a lawyer if she isn't willing to follow through with her end of the agreement.  I was hoping to avoid this, but I can't sign a mediation agreement that requires me to assume most of our debt and be responsible for purchasing the items needed to build a new life--especially when this isn't my decision.  Man, this is frustrating. 

In any case, I suppose I really need to detach emotionally from the relationship at this point.  You all were right.  Divorce is real, and if it is going to happen, I can't allow myself to be a doormat. 

I guess that I thought that all of the separation agreement anxiety would be behind me at this point.  I thought that she would follow through with the solution that she proposed.  Now I am being pressured to sign the agreement, and seeing more clearly that she she doesn't really care about much else but getting out of the relationship without incurring any of the big liabilities.  I just thought that she would be more trustworthy than this, and a little less selfish. 

For legal matters, I recommend posting on our legal board.

I will not go into the legal aspects, because that belongs on the legal board   but I recognize her behaviour. My stbxw simply doesn’t agree with any proposal of me, whether it’s a proposal for financial settlement or for exchanging stuff. She looks at my proposals and proposes something thats a 180 degrees different direction. Mostly knowing that her proposals can never be met by me. If I give in (partly) she will change her proposals in such a way I can’t agree with them anymore. After that she starts threatening with legal measures.

Okay, so I'm now fairly certain that she has had an affair too.  My friends who know the guy have been trying to keep me from the information because they are afraid that it will hurt me too much, but they let me know today.  How do I handle this? 

I honestly don't know that I can, but the problem is that I know she is going through a MLC as well.

How do you want to handle it? Does it make a difference in the short term? The long term? Does it change your view of the viability of reconciliation? How you handle the information really depends on what you want to accomplish. What is your goal?


I'm sorry, I don't think I know that term - MLC?

As for agreements... .     My dBPDh and I have come to a few agreements over the past month or so. He generally doesn't remember the conversations (he dissociates) or, if he does, he only remembers pieces. I send him emails with the details written out, but then he doesn't remember the email is there or he can't remember why he agreed to it (b/c he can't remember the conversations - argh!) So... .   It keeps going around in circles. I can pin him down to written agreements to some degree but if we have an agreement that is missing a component (i.e. like with your car situation) then I'd have to start over again with that aspect. Verbal agreements are pretty much useless with a dysregulated pwBPD (in my experience).

Sorry, Mid Life Crisis.  I have hoped that she would break free from this, but it doesn't seem as though she will--she is having an affair, and I am devastated now. 

My goal was to bring my family back together and restore the relationship, she was so sweet and wonderful before she suddenly began to devalue me, but I really think that this whole time she was one step ahead of me.  I think she may really just not love me anymore, and in this case, I need to focus on myself and the kids and doing what I need to so that she doesn't create anymore chaos. 

I think that's true. People who love you and know you should help you keep going forward.  But of course it is hard to walk away from someone you cared about so much.  I am in pain, reading your posts, because I know how much pain *you* must be in.  You want that person back, the person she used to be.  That person may come back someday in the future, and love you, then hurt you again.  Who knows?  I think you have to be careful not to let her take too much advantage of you in the agreements.

I am sorry to hear about the affair.  That guy will end up being split black too, I think.

Even though this is difficult, it is certainly nice to have some understanding for the first time in my life.  Thank you Momtara and all the other veterans that have reached out.  Being a rookie that learned a little too late what was going on with his wife, I think it's probably harder for me than most not to regret the role that I played in this whole mess, so thanks for trying to help me find focus.  I'm bummed that I wasn't able to bit of good news to the forum, and that you guys had to be a part of the biggest roller coaster chaos that I have experienced in this whole mess so far. 

If I don't come back and post, be happy for me, it will mean that I finally figured out how to detach.  Thanks again.

I'm not all that much of a rookie - I figured it out maybe 2 months ago, as my marriage was crumbling!  If I'd known about BPD a year ago, I feel like I could have handled everything better... .   but I still would have had to walk on eggshells, as hubby would never believe he had a problem.

I hope you do come back, if just for support.

Your wife sounds like if not for the disease, she is a smart and good person.  I wish there would be a way for you to get through to her.  I wonder if the kids can do it, or if it's something she'll have to figure out (maybe when the affair comes crashing down).  This is just such a cruel disorder. 

But you are a good person.  There is hope for you.  I guess you just have to feel good that you have loved, and still love.  That's what's most important.

((hug))

I also just reread your early entries and see how you are blaming yourself by not knowing the right things to do.  There is really no way to tiptoe around enough to "save" someone like this, but you and I, and probably lots of people, think: "If only we'd just taken the right steps!"  Please don't blame yourself.  It is very hard to know the exact right dance for these situations.  Sure, you and I wish we'd known about BPD, and it might have helped in the SHORT run.  In the long run, they ahve to get the right treatment, and that is very difficult.  Or they have to somehow wake up to their verbal abuse and realize the marriage is worth saving.  But every situation is different.

BPDdaddy, please read my first posts,

I denied my W would ever cheat on me, your story is very similar to my experiences and there is nothing we could have done.  I am in the most tremendous pain and feel like I am grieving both her past love and my ideal future life.

It seems little comfort but there a so many similar stories that its clear that if there was a mother way, it would have been found by now... .   There'd be a cure available but alas there really isn't.  I look back and know that she told me she still loved me which gave me hope, only to recently find out she had already met her new fella, I spent a few quiet hours and thought things were getting better only to find out she then snuck off to be with him instead of her friends... .   THERE IS NOTHING YOU COULD HAVE DONE. Please do not blame yourself.  I wailed like a child tonight for over 90 mins and don't feel any better but there is a process and there is no wrong way for you... .   Let it be and remember we are all here for each other through the hope and despair.

whichwayisup

Okay, so nothing can happen at all where she doesn't cuss me out and call me names.  I want to say that this is just her disorder, but when there are kids involved, and even if the decision isn't hers to make she gets upset, it just seems like it is all very crazy and that there is nothing I can do to make things work again.  Do I just stop answering her calls, what do I do?  The goal is to get things as settled as I can before she creates chaos, and it seems as though whenever I make a decision for my well being that she has any control over, she creates havoc.  Where do I go from here? 

Good post!

BPDdaddy, I have mixed feelings about this:

My first is , I can totally relate! At times when my breakup/divorce was fresh and still questionable, I wanted to reach out and just love him. I was the only person to ever truly love him in his entire life.

(second feeling) The reason I DON'T reach out , (ESPECIALLY because I am ALSO painted black right now, blacker than black.) Is because it would feed his control , and his narcissism . It would give him an opportunity to treat me badly because I had validated him - In HIS thinking - when I come "crawling back" / wanting to love him - he is validated in the bad way he treated me and takes himself to be the victim. His thoughts are " Well If I am so bad then why are you even around me telling me you love me!"

I hear you, and I am at the point where I am not reaching out--I also think that the less contact with her I have the less self-destructive things she will do to herself--but when she calls, I never know whether I should pick up or not.  And when she calls back after cussing me out and hanging up, I think to myself, maybe she will be calling back to finally be reasonable--but I am always wrong.  It is strange living in a world where I feel like I can't even do things for my own good before she files the separation agreement, because if I do, all hell will break loose.  And it doesn't make it any easier that I am trying to pull my mind together and study for finals.  Sometimes you wish, because she has cut off anyone who knows me and will reason with her, that God, a mythological figure, or someone with bigger than life capabilities, would just float down from the clouds and talk some sense into her. 

And the craziest thing about it all is that I haven't lost my cool during any of the arguments, and apparently now I need to be ridiculed for using a "politician voice" that makes me sound like an "idiot" and a "dick head" and all sorts of other things that I can't say here.  I feel like my wife was lost, and I was given a teen aged daughter with a bad attitude--who would have thought this is what I was signing up for 7 and 1/2 years ago when I married her? 

She notices the change of your voice and what you allow to go on... . she is threatened. She can  sense and realize she is losing control, and that is very threatening to a BPD person.

So many here, myself included, had kept looking back and were so convinced in the feeling "If only I had... .   "  I recall feeling like I was fighting some opponent blindfolded and in the dark, not knowing what strategy to use in my struggle against an unseen foe adversary just out of reach.  (Turned out our adversary is a person driven by mental illness, not enough to trigger incarceration but enough to ruin the relationships.)  But the reality is that quite likely there was literally nothing we could have done, we were watching a train wreck happening and no one could stop it.  Accept that you did your reasonable best.  Sure, you look back and see some things could have been done to trigger your spouse less.  But she was still like a freight train with immense inertia heading toward a crash, a little less triggering or a little more focus in other ways probably wouldn't have been enough to divert the disaster.

And speaking of hugs, near the end my spouse didn't want to be touched.  Love morphed into four-letter-word sexx, dangled like a carrot rarely and only when she wanted something.


Boundaries are crucial.  It took years for us to eventually learn that acquiescing, feeling sorry for them and willing to be a doormat only enabled worse behaviors.

Having boundaries though, doesn't mean it's easy sailing.  It's like being a seawall along the ocean.  The ocean will be forever pounding against the seawall, maybe not all the time, but there will always be storms and the pounding.  We have to be like the seawall, reasonable but firm, not just for ourselves but also for the children and their future.


This is called the Moving Goal Post pattern.  What team can ever make a touchdown if every time they get near the goal post the other team moves it?

In mediation and other types of negotiation, you can't afford to be nice or generous.  It won't be reciprocated and any concessions will be met by more demands, especially if 'weakness' is sensed.


Sad as it is to learn about her affair, there are two things to keep in mind.

One is that people with BPD are known to jump quickly from one relationship to the next.  Perhaps she sensed somehow that the relationship was fizzling and so she prepped the next guy, moving you to the back burner.  It's been commented here that their greatest fear is abandonment and that they'll abandon/reject the spouse before the spouse even thinks about abandoning them.  Ponder that.  They fear abandonment but will abandon to avoid abandonment.  If that isn't circular logic and a cognitive distortion... .  

The other is that you were just talking about the prospect of divorce.  That means you each would soon be living your own lives largely separate from the other except for the parenting issues.  Yes, she jumped the gun but apparently you were still holding out a desperate last chance hope of reconciliation?  Sadly, realistically, unless she faces and seriously works and improves at least some of her issues on a long term basis, reconciliation would just put you back on the roller coaster again.  That's what realistic reconciliation would have to require.  And as was already stated here, she would have to do it for herself, you can't do it for her.

As for the cussing, that happened to me too.  It got worse over time.  Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, then it got even more worse.  Near the End it was crushing.  Disrespect to the nth degree, calling me Satan the Devil, Judas Iscariot, the worst cuss words she could remember, saying I had cancer in my genitals, etc.

In some ways I have to see it as boundary pushing and challenging.  She just had to see how far my boundaries could be pushed.  And pushed some more.  And I finally accepted that I was Pushed Out, driven away.

Moving Goal Post pattern. I like that one: it exactly discribes what is going on and I recognize it from all over the r/s.

When trying to get involved with her therapy, she demanded that I went to a T myself. After I did she didn't want to come together, because I was only interested in my own problems... .  

When making agreements about doing work in the house (besides my fulltime job, while she was 100% unemployed) it started out with approx 25%, but when that went okay she demanded it would be 50%. Meaning I would come home about 7 pm, cook dinner and do my housework knowing that I would leave again to work at 5.30 am. And also knowing things would be very dirty again the next day (too dirty for normal use).

And more... .  


I recognize this one. Pushing boundaries. It seemed that my stbxw exactly knew how to trigger me. Over time my boudaries became wider and I did reacted less, resulting in more extreme behaviour from her side.

The crazy part is that with kids involved, no major long term legal decisions decided (except for custody issues), and her doing the moving goal post thing, I feel like I need to stop the bleeding where I can in order to gain some sort of stability in this whole mess and get her to move out of the apartment that I am renting so that I can structure life for the kids.  I know that I can fight this legally, through a lawyer, if I want to, but the damage that the kids are taking in the meantime is my biggest concern.  To me this has been worth the concessions that I have made so far, but I'm waiting to see--at this point--what her next move will be (I don't think that she turned the mediation agreement in yet). 

I liked ForeverDad's "seawall" analogy for boundaries in your situation.  Standing strong and impassive, regardless of what the ocean is doing.

With kids involved it makes sense to be calm, strong and reasonable right now.  Do you still want to try to work on the relationship?  Or do you think its time to work on detaching and moving on?

She is so different now, and seems to loathe me so much, that I feel that I have to detach in order to focus on more healthy aspects of my life.  When she senses that I haven't emotionally detached, she creates more chaos.  Because we have not entirely detached the physical aspect of our life yet, though, she seems to try to create chaos wherever she has control over my ability to make decisions in this sense as well.  It is an anxiety ridden experience to have to show up and see the children now, and I am trying my best to get us through to where she at least has her own place, I have mine, and we no longer have to share vehicles. 

The problem: she got caught up in the wrong crowd, and now that she has isolated herself from most of her good friend, the wrong crowd outweighs the good--she has suddenly become a foul mouthed, clubbing, exercise fanatic that seems to be on the verge of abandoning the children, which may be good seeing that she can barely take care of herself now.  The saddest part about this all is that who she is becoming to our children is the exact person (her mom--who abandoned her) that she resented for causing all of her pain as a child.  It's like watching Anakin Skywalker become Darth Vader, except for that it's not entertaining when it happens in real life. 

I know what you mean: exactly the same thing was going on in my home. My stxw had broken with her mum because she hated the way she lived. Thereby she was blamed her for destroying her youth.

Now she is the spitting image of her mother.

Pretty much everything ForeverDad said to you applies to me, even the hugs falling off during the last 3 weeks, mine had changed demeanour and is simply not the same person I knew as recently as 4 weeks ago me when I was trying to validate and use the tools, all to no avail... .   Mine is now seemingly trying to provoke me with unreasonable behaviours by keeping the kids away from me but not actually looking after them, even tho its holidays here, tomorrow my S15 is in school for revision all day, so D3 will be in nursery and she has arranged for D10 to help at the nursery, I have been trying really hard not to react to provocation, its uncanny how this plays out. 

My saving grace is that I have the house and am making it a tranquil place for the kids when they visit me... .   I think it's only a matter of time until I get to see them more, she is also seemingly more untested in clubbing and meeting up with friends that want to go out and meet other men and have lots of drama... .   The family life, I can deal with quite fine... .   In many ways it feels like I am in the process of becoming a widower by proxy... .     Similarly, the change in tone for my voice as matter of fact has been accused of being shouting... .   Couldn't be further from the truth... .  

Totally understand you.  My wife was accusing me of shouting before all of this fall out, and the only thing I was guilty of at the time was trying to clearly reason with her.  Now that I am validating her feelings, while not accepting blame for the things that I shouldn't--the very thing that she wanted in the first place--she will call me names, at which point I will say "let's not do this in front of the kids", to which she will respond by telling me that my request is abusive--why?  Well apparently abuse is also a quite thing, and is done through sly manipulations--meaning, anything I have to say that is contrary to what she wants to happen. 

My question is: how long does the insanity last?  When do does a woman with BPD finally give a guy a break on this splitting black thing?  I thought it was bad as we were going through the winter depression and devaluation phase, but now it is literally insane.  And the tone in her voice when she calls me names makes me think that she is going to go on an axe murdering spree or something.  Does the "black" phase ever stop?  That I will eventually see some light coming from the dark, dark, place that she is in is all that I wonder about now--not hope for my marriage, not hope for friendship, just a hope to finally deal with person that resembles a sane person for the kids sake. 

How long does the insanity last?  I've been out 7 years.  Sometimes my ex is okay, but not for long and usually that means she's under scrutiny by an evaluator or upcoming hearing or she wants something.  I still get cursed out, raged at, threatened with police or court every so often.  Last year I stopped doing sleepovers for my kid after she threatened the other parents with police in the driveway and taking them to court.  The parent called me, shocked and nearly in tears.  What parent wants even a slight risk of flashing lights in the driveway?  So my son doesn't get sleepovers - and GAL didn't care.  I'm hoping court will give her a lecture about it but I'm not holding my breath.  In over 7 years, my court lectured only once and it was only about her taking son on vacation without a written notice.

I'm not trying to be negative.  Just saying you can't count on a return to the early days.  Odds are low for that unless she really and truly seeks out professional help and changes for the better.

You can't change anything that she does.

She's going to do whatever she's going to do.

Think of her more like the weather now ... .   you can hope for good weather, of course, but nothing you do can influence the weather.

You can decide what are going to wear, what precautions you are going to take, etc. And you need to make those decisions - it's foolish to ignore what the weather actually is and looks to be, on the basis of merely hoping for different weather.

Its amazing how clearly you all can explain things through parables and poetry.  You guys are awesome. 

Last ditch attempt to hold on here guys:

(1) So despite the fact that my wife resembles Darth Vader now, how realistic is it to think that I can eventually reconcile my relationship with my wife, and is it even safe now that I know that I have become her trigger and she doesn't ever let these emotions go? 

(2) We were young, and in a way, we were both innocent.  Now that she has had an affair and become Ke$ha, that innocence will be lost (she always said that she could never forgive an affair).  When a person changes this much, from good, studious, wholesome mommy and into a party girl, is it ever possible to think that she will be that wonderful mother that she used to be again? 

I've read the stories about reconciliation, but I'm not sure that I have seen one where a person who has been able to reconcile after watching their loved one completely change (which I do want to say is the BPD, though it's hard to do anymore). 

Just yesterday, I felt as though I had detached.  But then this morning happened: I really thought that when I opened my eyes, my wife would be there next to me again, our son barging through the door to wake us up at 6am--everything balanced and right in the world again.  I've either got to know that somehow the Ke$ha/Vader phase does pass, or put a nail in the coffin for good for my own sanity. 

So here's the problem - no one is going to be able to answer the questions you've asked. It depends on the person. She might revert back; she might not. You might be able to work through a reconciliation, or you might not (a lot of that depends on you too). I can tell you this much, you can't count on her to revert back and you can't count on her to stay on the side of the Jedi even if she does go back. Everything to do with her is completely unpredictable. So it all comes down to you and what you want or are willing to deal with:

(1) Can you reconcile with your wife knowing what she is capable of? What does 'safe' mean to you? There are no guarantees and, even if she stabilizes now, she could very well turn to the dark side again at any time - can you handle that? Are you willing to deal with it?

(2) This new "party girl" was always a part of her, you just didn't see it before. And that "wonderful mother" is still in there too. It's all the same person. Package deal. How do you feel about living with that?

Exact describtion of mine... .   :'(  It helps me immensley lately to realize that when she was that, (The good mommy etc) it was all an act. Now she is her true self. As my mentor in Divorcecare said, "everybody else thinks they are nice."  "But nice people are not always good"

Sad!

I agree with this.

If you believe that she has BPD, then you believe that she has a real and very serious mental illness. Nobody can predict what will happen with it.



Possibly.



Possibly.

BPD involves identity instability, and a very weak or empty identity at core.

These "wonderful mother" and "party girl" personas may have been aspects of her personality all along ... .   or she may have been "trying on" different identities. There may or may not be anything persistent or "real" about them.

If you could have "given" her this understanding... .   it would have happened in 7 years. It's not yours to give her. She has to realize this inside herself. Your history speaks for itself... .   all the times you have managed the intolerable. Have peace that you have done your best. No words or hugs from you can solve this for her. The fact that you are on this site seeking ideas is a testament to your caring. The trick is to know when to take care of yourself and putting her issues aside (oh, if ONLY it was SO easy like that).

Be good to you.

Going to see my kids in an hour and make them dinner, and I have severe anxiety about seeing my wife.  It's almost as if the only reason that I want to know whether she will finally change back to normal is to understand whether this nightmare will ever end. 

Do you have any real basis to believe things are really and truly different this time, different enough from all the prior times?

Frankly, the odds are against it.  The only way you could trust a claimed recovery or "back to friends again" relationship is if it persisted positively for months and years, not minutes or days.  Until then it has to be 'provisional' and guarded.

While you can of course welcome better contact, don't let it fool you into complacency.  She's already made allegations against you, don't let her find a way to add to the list.

Be fully aware that if she's nice it's most likely situational, that is, she feels she has to be nice or wants to be nice.  Odds are it's only temporary and when she gets what she wants or is out from under close scrutiny by officialdom then the walls will come down and the barricades up.

Meanwhile, be very careful to avoid being in private locations where she can either frame you for claimed abuse or in some other way make you look worse than her.

BPD is a real and serious mental illness. If she actually suffers from it, she is not going to magically "change back to normal."

I second ForeverDad's cautions. While obviously improvement to the situation can be welcomed, be aware that it may be very temporary.

What accusations did she make against you, and to whom, BTW?

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