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I wanted to share my thoughts last night, but noticed I rather closed myself off, in the end, gotta do it on my own. Went back home and had a chat with my father which wasn't helping. Wasn't the best idea. Sleeping isn't going well. The thoughts of her, us walking together, is still spooking through my head on moments of 'clarity'. I find it scary, not to be alone, but the fact I can't keep my head together the moment I go to bed and turn off the light. Last night was another detrimental night, nothing better than the last but also did that with the idea that the weekend is coming up, and i am SO not looking forward to it, let's more or less say scared of it. These anti-depressants are seriously ~ scary, as it drops your emotions but keeps your emotions so crystal clear in regards of ending life, purpose of life etc. Numb

Again, you wake up and wonder whether or not to continue, last evening again, it felt SO relieving, fingers crossed and maybe tomorrow we wake up feeling englightened. I woke up, thinking whether or not to go to work. I felt so miserable that I remained in bed for another hour, missed my train to work by 2 hours and had to come up with 1 helluva excuse why I was so late. However, when I was in the train towards Amsterdam, (train goes towards the Dutch airport), I met 2 americans heading towards the airport. They work both with mentally ill people in America. They were talking about religion with another Dutch guy, one thing lead to another, we talked about the country, than relationships and then the 'borderline' came up. The moment I mentioned that name, they both said. RuN! Run, run like the wind! I explained her behavior and they were like, well well, we have heard that before! They noticed I was struggling with my emotions and told them about my struggle with life. Felt like I had nothing to lose anyway. They spoke about their experience with borderlines, how they drain your self-confidence, how they can rage and how their black-white thinking is affected. I told them I felt I had no purpose, nothing to give. And ofcourse, i realize that my tendencies as rescuer do come from somewhere, but that doesnt neccesarily mean I have to have such a muffed period in life atm. When i had to leave the train, they gave me their business card, told me to mail them and they even gave me a hug and welcomed me to visit them if I would travel to The States. The stress they relieved from my shoulders for a moment felt like such a relieve it was crazy.

Tonight i'm staying in the hotel again, and although I'm still at work. The utter uselessness is killing my head. The fact that I travel by train and tube isn't helping. I dread when I'm leaving work again .

Ending it would seem to be in her favor, as in, I feel I would do her a favor. The world isn't always a good place, and if I let her walk over me, what prospects lie ahead of me? I let her break me in the sake of what i thought was love, she told me every day she loved me, she clinged on to me like crazy during the idealization phase and wanted to let go during the devaluation period, however then I wanted to make it work. I thought love would prevail and every so now and then she would still show those old signs of her so I had enough fuel to receive another hit of mental words thrown to my head.

Seriously killing are triggers in life which remind me of the previous 2 years and the aching thought that I will never find such an awesome period with her again. And they hurt, they seem to hurt more and more. The feeling that their family thinks so bad of me, as she told her mother that I told her about her BPD and then she projected it on me. While it is true that after the idealization phase ended, i became codependent on her (which was stupid, but I only did that because she showered me with love, wanting to get married/kids and I couldnt believe that could change overnight.) and ignored all advise from friends and others that this was heading for straight collision, it still hurts she said and might even believe it.

The evenings, nights and mornings are by far the heaviest. It atm doesn't get easier, and I seem to close myself of from others, friends etc. for the simple reason that I want to show them I can deal with it. And I don't want to come over as a cry baby, for crying out loud, a few years back I was an example for other students.

I need to regain confidence in what i'm doing and believe in the self preservation of myself, that hopefully eventually I would do conciously the right thing. Do I have faith I will do the right thing? I don't.

I need to avoid triggers.

I'm sorry things are still hard. But what a godsend your companions on the train.

What does your GP say? What about the folks at the hotline?

Can you take some sick leave?

I'm glad you keep checking in here. We support you and know you can get through this.

PF

I am glad to here from you and in the same time I feel sorry for you in your daily struggle. 

Good you had some moments of relief with the two guys in the train.

You are in my prayers!

Gp says I need to stay strong, keep fighting and if in need, he tells me that i'm wise enough to ring a bell when i feel i'm drowning in my thoughts. And ofc. if a moment of seriousness arives, it still is in my own hands, my responsibility. Is not being here really a solution? A solution to what? To pain? Where does the pain come from? Where does it originate from? Whats the difference between ending it and working on it?

And if you don't want to fight against it. Why is that? Why have you given up? Have you given up? Your struggling between a certain mixture of thoughts. I thought about it again this morning, again I was witnessing writing my own ending note, i've been dreaming about this last few nights constantly. I'm actually thinking about writing it so maybe I would go dream about something else.

Other than that, I need to keep emotional venting in the hope that it will sort of ignite my engine if you get my point as it's still running low on fuel. I still have an unopened email from her since yesterday morning which every time I see it, is creating eery tension in my head. I close down the computer and then get angry and upset

How would it be to press delete on that email and not read it? I'm not suggesting you should- that is entirely up to you. But you have that option in your hands. If opening it or the thought of opening it causes you distress consider the option of deleting it and moving on without her presence in your life. She will still be present emotionally but the triggers can be more within your control- that's part of what strict NC is about, in order to give the wounds the best chance to heal without being poked just when they may be at their most tender.

Harmkrakow,,

Over the years, I've read a little about the subconsciousness, symbols, and dreams.

I now interpret dreams about death as being dreams about major transformations, endings, beginnings in a life. My subconscious has no written language to communicate with my consciousness. So these ideas of change are symbolized by death.

Maybe the note in your dream is your subconscious telling you to take the initiative and end the relationship. Such a major change would indeed be transformational, an ending, a new beginning. There is a strong possibility the "note" in your dream is symbolic for your new beginning, free of the relationship.

just my opinion

You know the funny thing about these dreams? They have been similar for atleast all the last nights since Sunday.

I wake up in a half awake/asleep stance around 2/3 in the morning. I wake up seeing myself writing a note about my sorries, about what has happened and who I cherished in live. I see myself writing in the middle of night, writing a little booklet, with a little summary to everyone who meant something in my life and some have 5 sentences, some have 2 to 3 pages. There is a handfull which have quite a bit more. I keep remembering what i write to my ex and one of my best friends.

There aren't really apologies in there. Like i'm sorry, but more as in, I know you guys will continue in life, when someone dies, you mourn for a day or a week, and the continue. A year later you might think, oh remember dear? He or she died that day. 10 years later, hey you remember? It's already been 10 years. In the end, we continue and let go. My decision that I can't live with the pressure and stress on my shoulders, the sheer hopelesness you feel of ever having an happy life again your period you walk around on earth. And all is being experienced with such sheer calmness. It feels relieved, it feels like being able to drop of the load from your shoulders and when i then wake up to go to work the sheer mental and fysical pain is so agonizing. It's like i'm giving up, no more of this ~. No more. F*ck this. it's so heavy to get your self out of bed, go to take a shower, go to work, do stuff. When you then see couples, when you then see the sun, the rest, it's all so hiting agonizing. Seeing cars, tubes, knowing all that pain can end within seconds.

Take it or leave it 1 hour into work and those thoughts 'are parked' in your head until you realize work is done and you are about to head home again. And it's that f*dging weekend i'm dreading.

You talk about a mixture of feelings. They are real and I get what you mean.

Having been through this, I know it is hard to see with any clarity while you're in the midst of it. Everything feels equally plausible and it's very confusing. I remember feeling unreal, like I was just watching myself in a dream at best. And I do understand just needing the pain to end. But I also have the advantage of having come through on the other side. Those feelings of despondency and dissociation and despair... .  those weren't my "natural" self; they were a temporary way of coping and they changed after I got help balancing out my brain chemistry. It really is treatable. There are other ways to end the pain that don't involve suicide.

I am very concerned about you. I can tell you are still concerned about yourself. Your GP says you will know to ring when you feel you are drowning in your thoughts, and you agree... .  to me it sounds like you are already being pulled under. It doesn't have to be this hard... .  you don't have to wait until you've already drowned. What would it be like to go into hospital for a little while? You would have people looking after you in a safe environment while you get your chemistry sorted out, you wouldn't have to worry about work or spending another weekend alone... .  You could have support. If you rang up your GP right now, could he help you check in somewhere?

PF

Hi harmkrakow, it's me again, reaching across the miles to you. I am concerned for you harm.  I don't know why I feel this specialness about you, whether its because I lost a son who would now be about the age you are, or whether its your depth of character that I read on your posts, or your touching avatar, harm you are important. A couple suggestions from me would be to call your GP and be very frank telling her that you are composing goodbye notes in your head and are having ideas about how to hurt yourself. And, if you are at home this weekend have someone there with you. I know other people don't understand, that they blow your experience off and expect you to just get over it. But you know harm, you won't do that to others. When you get to a better place in your life your heart will be full of compassion and ways to help those who are suffering. You, have work to do yet in this world harm. There are ways that you will make a difference in the future. Read back over your posts. See what I and so any others see. We see an articulate young man with a beautiful heart. We see a young man in agony just needing someone to help him through this time. You have done so much work all ready.

Please also remember, some side effects may be increased thoughts of suicide until things get balanced out, and you are in the age group where that is most likely to happen.  Some of this is very, very likely that side effect--in other words, it's an artificial thought as your brain chemistry transitions.  The metaphor that came to mind is a disjointed shoulder--hurts when it's out, hurts HORRIBLY as it's being put back in, and then... .  much better. 

Please keep posting.  You have a lot of folks here who care about you!  We can see that light up ahead, trust us on that. 

Just reaching out to let you know you are not alone and those of us posting on this board have been through the sadness you are expressing. Hang on... please... .  you are hurting, it will take time to work through the pain, the end result is this... happiness. Keep posting. 

C

Dream interpretation is an interesting subject. I do believe this is your sub conscious sending you a message. I do believe your dream is trying to remind you of people who are important to you and who love you. It's pointing right to what's important and meaningful. A book full of names and accounts of people you care about and that care about you.

As if to say "hey dude, these people care about us remember? And let's focus on the fact that there are people in this book of yours that deserve 3 or 4 pages and even some who deserve one line. There are people who would be in deep pain if they lost you." 

It's a little sentence in my head. It's the signs of my meds doing something in my head. I've read some stories here on bpdfamily and have to admit, I read from some that they staid in this phase for months sometimes years, unhappiness, Anxieties, depression etc. I know, or better to say I can feel internally that I won't let happen. Either i'll fix it or I'll pull a plug. I'm 25, the idea that the coming 2/3 years i'm going to be a sad little twinky who needs years to rebuild his life is not something which is going to happen. I really can't. I'll tell my shrink that on Monday.


I think you are right :) I'll tell if I dream again about this tonight.

Biggest struggle will be tomorrow evening. Than another week of work and then hopefully the severity of the meds will decline.

Am in a train atm towards home, arrive roughly home in 30 minutes and what do you know? Someone threw himself in front of a train so 1 train line is out.

That's tragic and sad.  What were you thinking when you heard about this, and what do you think now about it? 

harm buddy, I can promise you it gets better.   Healing takes everybody a different amount of time. It's okay. You are very cognizant and aware of your feelings though. You're seeking support and professional help, you're giving yourself time to grieve, and so you're getting there!

I'm really sorry you heard such sad news on your way home.

I'm young like you, and life seems to be more stressful for the young because there are so many beginnings and changes. Modern life is also really stressful because of the fast paced choices and people. Right now you're processing a big change in your life. Grieving the loss of a relationship is tough, man. You're not alone in this. But it's worth it to heal. You are worth it.

How are you doing with taking care of yourself right now?

Harm,

How do you feel the meds are affecting you?  :)o you think they are working?

As C4S said, it's possible these drugs may actually (possibly) be having a negative effect on your emotional state.

I have had a few experiences with anti-depressants, and they have definitely had a negative effect on me.  I started on Wellbutrin once, and it made me feel worse than I've ever felt in my life.  I couldn't sleep... .  I paced around... .  I was in a constant state of panic... .  I could barely breathe I was so miserable.  And that all happened for no good reason at all... .  I had been in a relatively relaxing period of my life, and that's why I felt comfortable trying it at that point.  The drug alone pushed me to a terrible state.  I had to come off of it, and then I became myself again.

I can't imagine how awful it would have been if that adverse reaction to Wellbutrin had actually come at a scary, lonely, tragic, heartbreaking, stressful time in my life... .  and so I always worry a little when I hear that people are starting meds in the midst of an emotional crisis.  It's logical to do so, of course... .  but it still always makes me a little nervous about how scary it could be if they had an adverse reaction to the treatment.

Are you feeling comfortable with them at this point?  :)oes it seem like it's helping you?

Ive come to terms with something today. Yesterday when I came back, I saw my ex send me a few messages, ‘jokingly’ sort of messages. As in; “Heeeey, shall we talk this weekend? I’m still at work :P hope your well, we can talk tonight (Friday) or Sunday noon or sumthing”. The message made me feel disgusting. As I felt it was going to take me quite a while before I would fall asleep I took some melatonin and temazepam with a slurp of vodka which made me atleast drowsy last night when I went to bed. Got myself a pizza, and realized, I couldn’t care. I just couldn’t care anymore, or any longer? Seriously, the fact that your nerves go ‘loose’ feels so relieving.

As some noticed, I posted a topic in the detachment in regards of the weekend, I did what user “whatwasthat” suggested. Create a list of boring things you don’t want to do, create a list of things you do want to do and do something ‘new’.  

I went out shopping at the town I’m living in currently and it made me feel like it was giving me some answers. I saw a lot of couples, holding hands, around my age and a bit older, which hurt, I saw some argue, it felt like, I was a spectator or life and I’ve been pulled out of it, slowly, agonizingly slowly getting pulled out of it. Further and further away. I noticed that due to the anti-depressants I’m taking right now, it made me feel like I’m some sort of outside spectator of this all, as if I don’t belong here or aren’t noticed. But not in an anxiety panicky kind of way. It made me feel empty and so far the pills have been making my emotions (happy and crying) go away. However, the sheer inevitability of feeling of not being able to achieve a better life are still agonizing strong.

I can feel an inner need to cry, but I can’t though. It feels like someway, somehow, these tears within myself are piling up.

As I’m not from America, I don’t know the ‘american’ form of my anti-depressant prescription, but I’m using Seroxat. I think it’s Paxil in America? And yeah, my GP told me when he described it that suicidal thoughts get stronger in the beginning.

I’m now going to a high school reunion in around 30 minutes, and have to put up a charade. I have to due to the unfortunate reasons many people will want to see me and talk to me as I was, as before told, the only one who went abroad and known as banker so I probably have some stories to be told. As I’m 25, being around people of 25, people will ofc. want to show of their gf (or worse WIFE) and their KIDS(!). Something I wanted all along with my ex BPD.  

I don’t know how I am going to feel when I walk back from the city center towards home tonight. I don’t know. I once left the town and high school, that start my life abroad, and what do you know, 12.5 years after high school started, I’m right back at zero . I do know however that I’m not going to share this pain until Christmas this year. I won’t be around if this pain is still in my head, I’m not going to be some sad fudge for the coming 5, 10 15 years. I’m in the prime of my life, 25 years old, and would even have to say, I’m in great physical shape. My condition is very good atm. Mentally of course it’s a different story. I rather go out strong. I have to admit, I don’t feel ‘depressed’, I do feel like I’m a troubled thinker atm. It’s like the life energy got sucked out of you and you got pushed out of the circle of life.

I am aware of my family of origin issues. I come from a proud family, and yeah, I feel emberassed, ashamed that I cannot achieve the goals they want me to achieve and their expectation (and from others) feels like a severe burden on my head. Most of my friends are highly successful or some are working hard towards that world. And ofc. I don’t even have a very strong bond with my family to start off with. I feel ashamed and embarrassed.

When I went abroad on my own, I didn’t know anyone, but within 3 months, I had a life, I was happy, and even got myself a gf when I started with completely zero. However, I also relate back to that time when I really wanted to make something out of it. Now ... now I just shield myself of,  not because I don’t want to, but because I feel that I can’t be bothered. I can’t help it, but I like to have deep conversations with people, not just only shallow fun.

What I feel like I want to do now, is purely write it down what happened last 2 years. Write it down, use some money, print it out, and just hand it out to people in the big cities, that somehow was always something I wanted to do and got fueled by friends and shrink due to the striking textbook things I’m going through. As some sort of last thing you can help others with. I don’t feel like I have the striking energy anymore to create a next pathway in life.

Hi  again Harm 

I'm so sorry that the meds you're taking have not yet reached a point of helping a great deal and indeed seem to be making you feel a bit distanced from yourself and from reality.

When are you due to see your GP again? It's important that your doctor knows exactly how all of this is making you feel. Did your doctor give you an emergency number you can call if you're concerned about how the meds are making you feel? Perhaps there's a general emergency health service number you can call - I think I would do that if I felt as you described today. 

Did you say that you have an appointment with your therapist on Monday? When I was feeling much like you are now I found that the most helpful thing was a session with my T - this allowed me to express some of my emotion and to feel safely 'held' by someone who listened carefully to me, understood me and validated my feelings. Have you had a similar experience of feeling some relief after a T session? I told my T  week after week for about six weeks that I felt suicidal. And he accepted it and understood and it made me feel very safe - and gradually that meant that I didn't feel suicidal any more.


That's OK - you don't have to do anything big or dramatic or amazing right now. When I felt quite a lot like you do now it was the little things that kept me going and slowly made me feel better. It was a slow, gradual, gentle and subtle process. It's about tiny victories every day which slowly add up to feeling a whole lot better. You will be surprised how quickly that momentum of improvement can build once it starts. This is such a dark time. I remember it very well. But it's not your destination - it's just a very difficult part of the journey. It's as if you're battling through a snow storm on a dark night and have a few miles to go yet before you're home - but you must take it gently to preserve your strength.

About the reunion. My advice would be - once you arrive keep checking in with yourself about how you feel about being there. Maybe commit to stay for an hour and then start to decide how you feel after that and leave whenever you feel like it. Maybe you'll get talking to someone who distracts you and makes you feel better - maybe it won't feel so great and it would be good to have an excuse so you can go home early. This is not a time to put yourself to the test - to make yourself do things that feel uncomfortable. It's about being kind and gentle with yourself. And while you may not be in the mood to take this in right now - do not for a minute think that you will be the only person at that reunion with troubles. Sometimes we think the whole world is happy except ourselves - this is never true.

You talk about having all these emotions that need to come out. Maybe talk to the T about that - it's possible that the meds are getting in the way of feeling what you need to feel. But I'll mention the David Berceli Trauma Relief Exercises again because they are a good physical way of  getting those emotions out. They're very simple. They just put the body into minor stress positions - causing you to start shaking and trembling - which in itself releases emotions. PM me if you want to know the details. Otherwise have a look online.

We're all here Harm. Just let us know when you want to talk. WWT.   

(Cross-posted)


Your wants matter, too. Is going to this reunion something you want?


What does your FOO do when you do not meet their expectations? Did they teach you that you are only worthwhile if you achieve?

What would it be like not to stop living, but to stop living for others? How would it be if you could just be who you want to be?

My FOO made me feel not good enough... .  I felt such a failure for having a mental breakdown... .  I was supposed to be perfect and make them look good to the rest of the world. It has been some work un-learning what they taught me, but having another way to look at myself has made a big difference. I am able to experience JOY now. I believe I am good just as I am, that I deserve to define my own success. You are good enough just as you are, too. You deserve to have your own wants and feelings and goals. You don't have to please everyone else to be a lovable and worthwhile person.


Understandable. Depression is exhausting. But it is temporary. You may not have energy right now, and that is ok. You don't have to solve this whole problem today. One step at a time, asking for support when you need it, and the energy will come back to you. This feeling will not last forever.


Depression is at least as much about troubled thinking as it is about feeling. You may be more emotionally numb right now, maybe not sad... .  but you still seem very depressed. If you will keep working in T, your thinking can change. I like that you said at the moment. It is transitory... .  you have the power to change it.

DON'T plan a permanent end to a problem that is only temporary. DO keep working on those little goals. I love whatwasthat's lists--keep working on those.

Keep checking in... .  you've almost made it to your next T appointment!

PF

I've got an meeting planned Monday afternoon 3 PM (it's 1.18 PM now where I live).


I will tell him. My T is a nice guy. He understands my issues and well has helped me so far by letting me read articles about social phobia, PTSD, borderline etc. My behavior, my FOO. Her behavior and ofc. also what he said is that I can't save her, she can't be saved, issues of her being a mother in the future so be happy that you guys don't have kids, and also HER FOO, which was of interest and very explanative to me. Unfortunately, my problems slipped further as that my energy in life just slipped, not just the pain of a BPD breakup.


As you might have read in my large post in the detachment board topic of the weekend, i didn't have the best last night and i've mentioned that the reunion was okay but not to good. I did realize that from 12.5 years ago when we all started, I progressed significantly. I did receive mostly compliments from my old classmates and were all like, mate, you've kicked but back at uni and i wouldnt be suprised that within 10/15 years your CEO somewhere with your strong work ethic and passion in regards of finance. Some I did tell about the borderline and they've only showed compassion and thumbs up that I came to the reunion. The fact that some were married and already living together and all was of course not helping. Some staid in the little town we grew up with in regards of high school, and that sort of mediocrity is something i can't live with. Although I do feel jealous (in a way) that they seem so happy while I always sought my joy abroad, but ofc. in a way thats also 'flight behavior'. However it also felt like if I would do a final solution to a temporary problem, the majority of my old classmates know exactly where the problems were lying.

You might be right that in regards of the emotions that these anti-depressants might not be the best thing for my emotions. But keep in mind that I took those anti-depressants because I seriously had uncontrollable crying bursts. At work, at home. I cried for hours on my own in my bed. Being under the bedsheets and just cry, taking a shower while washing the sheets and just lying on the shower floor and crying. And you know what, my ex told me that, as I've never been really the emotional type, that I should stop the crying. I've got nothing to cry about or cry for. And everything I cry for in regards of her are fake, are lies and as she told me straight to my face, i'm not even half sorry for whatever I done to her. When she said that I started crying again and she kept telling; awwwwwwww, you going to cry again? Awww, cry, cry more...  

I shouldn't be in this state. Why oh why do I seek so frantically for overnight solutions. The fact that I finished my employment contract coming week means i'll be having a lot more free time. Interesting to see how I am going to deal with that. I don't have daily contact with anyone.

It's good to 'see' you Harm!  

I'm so impressed that you made it through the reunion OK - that shows quite incredible strength - I would never have managed that when I was at a stage similar to yours after the break-up. I could barely eat anything and drag myself out of bed. And my relationship was much shorter than yours so I'm really envious of your inner resources!

I think we've established without a doubt that you're an exceptionally  strong and resourceful person.

Sometimes though it's hard to use these qualities to take care of  ourselves.

You talk about these crying fits - and your own and your girlfriends attitude towards them.



Firstly I can see why the GP would prescribe anti-depressants. But I do think it's really good that you have another appointment with the doctor tomorrow so that they can reassure you that the meds are doing their work and that the more positive effects will come a bit later. It's possible that when the GP hears how you feel that they will want to reconsider the medication. The key thing is that you're keeping your doctor constantly up to date with your state of mind.

Of course you want to be able to function in such a way that you can continue to work as long as your contract continues - but there also has to be space to let out these intense feelings.

But the big issue for me with what you say above is 'Why wouldn't you be in this terrible state? Why wouldn't you be bursting into tears all the time? Why question the value and the sense of this?'. Does it feel shameful in some way to be this hurt?

I'm sure you've read enough here to realise that it's sadly very common for people who are normally very much in control of themselves and their lives to spend days and weeks in the wake of these break-ups sobbing uncontrollably in the foetal position. I just sort of shut down - started shivering - went into shock. And then after about a month staying with friends (I couldn't bear to be on my own in my flat) I slowly started waking up and it felt as if it was just  a few days since I had gone to stay with them. Time had done something weird - it had sort of shrunk. Very frightening and strange. It's no fun - no-one would recommend it - but it's a very natural result of what you've been through.

Also I'm not quite clear what your ex gf is saying about your crying. Is she saying 'You shouldn't be feeling so awful! Stop it!'? If so I would consider that to be neither empathetic or helpful. What's your current view on LC/NC?

How's it going with the boring/fun/new lists? My experience was not that doing any of this stuff made me feel particularly 'better' or 'happy' in the moment. But it did feel sort of right to be following this pattern and it slowly  made me feel more balanced. I'd recommend sticking to it - as if you're taking some necessary but not very nice-tasting medecine.

It's really interesting what you say about quick fixes. I crave them too! And yet I know they don't work. I do think there's something about our present culture that encourages us to believe in them and to keep seeking them out.


You are so lucky to have the T that you do. He sounds amazing. Do you go weekly or is there a chance to get sessions more frequently? I think that when I was at my worst it would have been good for me to have sessions twice a week but sadly that wasn't possible. How many sessions have you had so far?

Sending big hugs. WWT  

Thank you, it actually made me realize that it was indeed a good and strong bald move to go to the reunion and 'keep active' and 'be amongst' people. Also people there told me, man, the fact that you are standing here and not crying in bed, thumbs up to you Harm!



I will.




It does feel shameful to be this hurt. I've been once in a 3 year and once in a 2 year relationship before I met this BPD person. When we split up in those previous r/s, there was room for closure, there was room for a 'clean' ending. Ofcourse there were tears, ofcourse there was a bit of tension and wonders, is this the right choice? And you know what, I remember those break ups, and I would do something to keep my mind of things. At those points I didnt mind to be alone after the break up, I played a computer game, or I went to play soccer with some friends, or I went on holiday to some cousins, or I would study something for a few weeks which was completely different. And it felt good, and quickly day by day, the pain became a bit less. Few weeks out and I was ready to move on with a new target in life. Now, now I don't have that. I don't gain joy out of reading a book, playing a video game, going for shopping, etc. The futility is a crushing pain.

In my r/s with my BPD other, she was always the one from day 1 idealization to day last idealization afraid that I would break up with her. That I would leave her for someone better, the moment the hatred phase started she didn't have that anymore. First of all I had no idea of such thing as a 'hatred phase' and thus therefore thought this was just a 'period' and love would prevail. She loved me so much, i'm sure if I would try harder she would come back at terms. So from that point onwards I started neglecting friends more, I started paying more attention to her and tried whatever I could to help her, but every day it went worse and worse. And that slowly, agonizingly destroyed me. A few months in the hatred phase I realized I made myself copendent on her! While I never had that feeling until that point of realization. I always had the feeling I could do whatever I wanted and never (although I loved her) felt attached to her in such a way that I could not function without her. It wasn't until months into the hatred phase that I realized I got myself codependent on her because I could not believe her switch from idealization towards hatred.


My vision on LC/NC is simple. I consider it, and I don't mean this negative or aggressive as a cancerous growth. Why? Because day by day, week by week, I throw a little bit away but I let myself get sucked back into, either through a text or an email. You cut it of a little, but it always growth back again. And yeah, that, that doesn't feel good. I know, that for me to fully heal, grow and continue with my life, the growth should be completely cut off, thrown away in a bin and let that bin get dumped at a garbage yard.

The boring/fun/new lists was a wonderful idea of you and I do it little bit day by day. I want to buy a new tablet and try out a game, so that's something 'fun' I want to do. A boring thing I did was do my shirts and new thing is something which i'm contemplating, new email address etc.


I've had sessions since October 2012. So i've had a lot! Break has been since February 2013. Slowly more and more light was shed on her illness, PTSS, Borderline, Social Phobia. And yeah, he told me, in regards of also seeing any future. He asked me, are you willing to (this was months back) are you willing to take care of yourself and her to for the rest of your life? You are holding yourself back, severely. You can't save her, because she can't be saved until the point she sees that she needs help. She always was the one who said she never needed help at all, so the likelyness of her doing so is unlikely. And she might hit into another relationship within a year or 2 ,and that might have a honeymoon phase of 5, or maybe even 10 years. But eventually, if she doesn't help herself, it will eventually pop up again. It will, and therefore you (me) should be happy I got out of it.

My shrink keeps telling me, don't relate this to a break up /detachment from a normal r/s ,because this goes so much further. The entire 2 years together feels like a lie. It feels i've been cheated on and she walked away without taking any responsibility after I solved all her debt issues and other problems. It feels she took(!) 2 years of my life for her self so she could move on from her previous abusive ex relationship as where she got mentally abused and I feel like she used that against me to lift her up and break me down. I feel down because I feel I let it happen. I hate the fact that i'm venting here, the fact I seek emotional help here and the fact that I seem to be burned out. It's not that I feel sad because we aren't together, ofcourse in a way I do, but I consider my biggest issue at the moment... .  

1) That I don't feel energy, to do something, to create something, to make a new future of my life. It's like the energy, love, and warmth got sucked out of my life and I hit straight into a big burnout. Mental exhaustion. While ... unfortunately for me, i'm at the brink of one the most important choices in my life, 25 years young, good shape and between finishing studies and picking a new job in a different country and rebuild a life. All important choices where I once was like; YES! Can't wait to write it all down, what I want to do, while now, all the energy got slipped away and all I feel is severe mental pain in my head. I wish I could give someone the feeling i'm enduring at the moment.

I feel emberassed and yeah, again, give me a button and I would push it. I, considering what i've been through, shouldnt need help and I should be able to do this on my own. I've had it with complaining, i've had it with 'whining' and all those feelings are just forcing me more to look for a button.

Nothing shameful in love and loss. We need relationships we feel safe in to really explore our emotional boundaries and make better decisions about who we love and why in the long run. It is a learning process. Yes... .  you got quite a lesson here.

Take a listen on you tube to Brene Brown's TED talks on shame and vulnerability. Should be good comfort to you during this time.

Be kind to yourself, You're going to get through this

OTH

I know this feeling. It's like a presence, almost tangible, a weight on your body. This is what depression feels like. Harm, I understand not wanting to "whine" or feel embarrassed to share that you are hurting. However, people need people. Sometimes we need support. It's ok to reach out, it's healthy to reach out. Becoming comfortable with the uncomfortable is part of growth. Give yourself permission to lean into the fact you are just as human as the rest of the human race. No one in the world has ever gone through their entire life without some sort of hardship, without some sort of challenge.


And this, this is a small ray of sunshine peeking through the clouds.  |iiii

Hi Harm!

I think your friends at the reunion were right - you did very well to go - as I said that is not something I could have faced when I felt at my lowest. And I'm so pleased you like the lists idea and are running with that so very effectively  |iiii

Your T sounds immensely helpful


I can really relate to this thing of almost blaming yourself for letting the relationship happen - for getting into this mess. I felt like that too - but also - as you said - as if I'd been tricked and lied to in some way.

Those feelings make sense in that when we're going through emotional agony we naturally look around and think 'How did I let this happen? What kind of idiot was I to get into this mess?' - well it's not quite that simple. We almost certainly had our own weaknesses that meant we were vulnerable to the situation - and in time we can work those out and learn to grow from all of this - but then again the behaviour we encountered probably broke many of the 'rules' about how we expect people to act  - so it became hard to know what on earth was going on and to make sane judgements. We entered a surreal world that didn't make a great deal of sense to us. It sounds as if your T is doing a very good job of helping you unpick all of this.

That lack of energy you describe - as other posters have said - that sounds like depression. It won't last forever and it's not indicative of how the rest of your life will be - it's just a hurdle that has to be surmounted - however horrible it feels.

And you say you're impatient to get on with life. I understand that. But you're really still very young. And if you spend six months turning yourself around - working in T, taking care of yourself, following a structured programme to bring balance back into your life I bet you're going to feel immeasurably better and much more ready to take on any exciting new challenges you might want to embrace. Six months isn't long. Try to be patient and to throw all your focus and energy into helping yourself and getting yourself stronger and clear headed for the next stage in life.

Again you say that you hate the fact you're venting here - that you shouldn't need help - that you should be able to handle this alone. You know it's actually a tremendous sign of health, sanity and maturity to express emotions that need to be expressed and to reach out for help. In session one of my therapy I got a great deal of praise from my T for having taken myself off to be looked after by friends for a few weeks when I was at my worst. He greatly approved of that approach. We all have our limits - and to pretend that we don't would indeed be more than a little crazy.

Sending you warm hugs and so pleased about the new game/tablet (I'm too old to really understand that stuff but it sounds like it'll be fun!) WWT. 

One of the issues is though, as you might notice with your own friends or friends of you who vent this at you, sometimes enough is enough. You can only do so much as a listening 'ear' and push someone in the right direction. But when is the breaking point? When do you have the feeling that you are talking to a wall? As people in a burnout/depression don't need to be talked to once, twice or three times, sometimes hundreds of times before they see the light again. I feel literally, in the literal sense of the word stupid for asking the same help to someone over and over again knowing and realizing that I could have done it myself but just needed the affirmation/confirmation. As my ex would always say, wtf do you need that for? I don't need to tell you this or show you this ... YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS!

It is not stupid to ask for help, or to keep asking as long as you need it.

You will get there. We all have times when we need to rely on others. That is ok! It is part of being human... .  it does not mean we are "less than" when we need help; it means we are "part of."

Keep asking for help when you need it. That is the smart thing to do.  |iiii  I'm proud you are still hanging in there. This is hard work. I know you can do it. I have lots of faith in you! 

When is your next meeting with your T? Are you still checking in with your GP?

PF

Next meeting t and GP is within 14 days but ive got a T on a hotline, as for example last week during my last working moments I had 1 very dodgy moment where I was ready to let it all go, after hours of contemplating i called the shrink and the moment was avoided. However from monday onwards,no more work,just silly me home alone.

Fight for yourself harm,

What did you used to enjoy doing in your time off? How can you focus your energy in this time off in a positive manner. Nothing drastic. Just back to basics. Come back home to yourself and start being you again. Don't sit ruminating all day. You are in a painful place. The brain gets back to even by experiencing new things and getting back to the things you enjoyed.

You are strong enough to get through this. Keep pushing.

Think of your recovery as being your job. As P.F.Change says, this is hard work! Dedicate yourself to feeling better, do what needs to be done in order to be well.

Sending positive vibes your way! 

I feel literally, in the literal sense of the word stupid for asking the same help to someone over and over again knowing and realizing that I could have done it myself but just needed the affirmation/confirmation. As my ex would always say, What the heck do you need that for? I don't need to tell you this or show you this ... YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS!

What the heck do you need that for? As Brene Brown says,  because human beings are wired for connection.

I deliberately quit my job to work on my mental stability although I know it will be a struggle. The suicidal contemplation last 48h have been tormenting. Luckily I had a friend call me today. Other than that, every time I feel it coming up I watch this video www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o80Q4pLvTE (posted it a different topic as well). The thoughts need to die.

And yeah, i've been raised with the thought that one doesn't need help, so it goes against my FOO. Asking for help is below yourself. In today's society, also where I live in the Netherlands, people need to be able to take care of themselves and if you can't your a weakling.

So far, it's been a struggle. Good example is that my ex started talking to me tonight. I asked her; Heey did you pay that debt you have to pay tomorrow? As she had debt with a debt collection agency which she didnt pay. And then she told me;' Ooops, I forgot ... and oh Harm, I only have 110 euro on my account" ... and then I was stupid enough to say, ah don't worry, i'll pay it for your tomorrow okay?

And then ofcourse; "would you do that for me". Yes I will I said. After that she told me, send me the screenshot of that you paid (see how much she trust me?). She then told me she was going to bed and went offline but I saw her pop online somewhere else (where i was offline).

People of bpdfamily, i feel like an idiot.

We care about you, Harm. 

No matter how you are handling things with your exgf. LC or whatever.

We deeply care.

I thank you for that :)

Seriously, how come that people, from time to time just need a pat on their shoulder? I was always being told, you live for yourself, your own party. Make it or break it, but in the end you do it on your own. You were born alone, you will die alone.

When I see religious groups, I feel their happiness, their connections, i see the joy on their faces. They ... they do it together. Or the big families, the once with 5/6/7 kids and families with over 50 people. However, I also see the lonely outsider, the one who got raised an orphan, or has no brothers or sisters. I also see the unfairness in the world, where they knock on someone's door for help and get shown the finger and politely asked to buzz off because they are with their own family and won't let a stranger in.

I do think, nowadays, that inner circles, if you are in one, are warmer than before, but for a complete stranger it might be an enormous struggle to fit yourself somewhere in a group. A good example is going to a friend to talk about life and misery, you talk for 5 hours, you feel good, you come back home and you FEEL(!) as if nothing has changed. Although pain is something in the past and anxiety is something you have in the future, you both allow to rule your head, right now, as of this instant.

It will go away, I know. But I could also jump of the stairs and it would go away. I know there's a huge difference but still. Maybe all this what I was saying didn't make any sense, maybe it did. It's just weird to lay in ur bed, for the last 2 days on ur own, taking care of yourself, while all you were seeking for was a bit of a tap on your shoulders to prove or show that you not only exist in this world, but also matter in this world.

I dont have anything planned for this week, but at least a shopping trip 2nd week of april with a ex gf of mine to 1) get rid of all my clothes which remind me of my current ex 2) get a haircut. Other than that, i'm thinking of a huge roadtrip through America although some already told me to be careful considering crime and such.

Harm, humans are social beings. We need other people and rely on them. That's why we live close to each other, form communities, join groups, and have relationships. The world is unfair, but there is a lot of goodness in it too. It's okay to need people-it's normal and human. In fact, it's important and wonderful.

I like your plans! You are doing well taking care of yourself. A roadtrip across the US would be amazing. Being careful is a good idea no matter where you go. If you learn a bit about where you're going so you can avoid the worst spots, you should be safe.

Guess what - you don't have to pay this.  So what if you told her you'd pay it today.  You can certainly tell her you thought it through, and realized that this is helping no one.  It's not helping you, and it's enabling her.  Why are you enabling her?


I'm not going to tell you to find a church and just go, but that's what I did.  I felt very awkward at first, but felt the same way you do now.  This is all new to me, so I'm not quite a 'believer' yet, but it has helped me see that, yes, you can find this out there, regardless if it comes from a church, or another organized group, or a random gathering of people at a coffee house (ah, and I mean coffee, not the way of your city  ).  It's out there, my brother.  Sometimes you have to make that leap and see.

I think this is a really great idea!  I love road trips, and I've been on plenty of road trips throughout the US without any trouble at all in terms of crime or my safety.

I'd suggest checking this out:  www.greentortoise.com/adventure.travel.html

I did the two week "Southern Dream" trip across the whole US, and it's very strange, and very cool.  There were 40 of us from around the world all spending our days and nights in the back of a 35-year old bus.  All the seats were ripped out, and so we all just slept on one big mattress that filled the whole floor.  We'd do barbecues on the side of the road, and explore caves, lagoons, sand dunes, hot springs, canyons, and a lot of cities as well.  The whole thing was awesome... . I saw the whole southern half of the country, met a lot of cool people, and even had this perfect two-week romance with a beautiful girl from the other side of the world.

*sigh*... . yeah... . that was nice.  That was eight years ago for me.  Right before I fell in love with my eventual ex-wife.  Ugh... . I wonder what that girl is up to now... ?

umm... . but now I'm digressing... .

haha... . anyway... . you should check it out if that sort of thing sounds appealing to you at all.  It's a nice way to have an experience that is kind of solitary and social at the same time.

You may also want to look at https://www.couchsurfing.org/ - not the safest thing in the world, I suppose, but I've always had good experiences with it.

I understand you are describing the mindset (not a very happy one) that was handed down to you, but have you stopped to consider whether it is true? Certainly some people do die alone. And in the sense that we don't get to do it with a buddy the way we would go for coffee, maybe in that sense we do die alone. But I have yet to meet anyone who managed to be born alone. From the moment we are conceived, we are completely dependent on another for our survival. We are literally physically connected to our mothers until after we are born. At that birth she is there, and she usually has quite a few helpers, too.

Though we may learn ways to survive on our own as we grow older, we remain a highly social species and need to feel connected to others. Part of living societally is helping others meet the needs they can't meet on their own AND allowing others to help us where we may be lacking. No man is perfect. We all need others--sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.

Is there anything you would rather believe than the messages that have been given to you? What would it be like if you believed something else?


It sounds like you are identifying with the "lonely outsider" right now. I get that... . You are right that it is not always easy to find a place in a group when you are the "stranger." Sometimes it takes a little effort, sometimes a little luck. But you can make a group for yourself... . even just inviting your mates to grab a pint all together... . or if you don't have mates, sitting at the bar and introducing yourself to the chap next to you. One of my favourite friends is a woman I met randomly at the playground; we met up a few times after that and then she invited me to join a playgroup she belonged to. I didn't particularly connect with many of the other mothers, but I had a regular social interaction with other adults, and I was thankful every week when it was time to see them. Can you do something like that for yourself? There are websites where you can find interest groups, maybe join one of those? Anything you'd like to learn, like a hobby or a language? Also, nothing wrong with visiting a church even if you aren't religious. You might meet someone nice.

FWIW I think you matter a great deal. Look how many people care about you just on this site alone!  You deserve a pat on the back and a shoulder to cry on when you are lonely and sad. Nothing wrong with needing comfort or connection.

It sounds like you are taking care of yourself even while things are still hard. Keep that up. You are about to turn the corner.  |iiii


PF

The idea of churches as being a good place to find a sense of belonging is a good one. If you aren't necessarily drawn to a traditional church, have you considered other, similar groups? I grew up in a Christian-dominant culture but I always knew it wasn't quite right for me personally which made things a struggle. You have some time - why not explore other cultural groups or religions? Believe me, they would more than welcome your inquiry! For example, some Buddhist theory posits that each of us are both entirely alone yet entirely connected, not individuals but part of a greater whole - I find this comforting. There are similar teachings among Wiccans (fascinating religion/culture if you're interested). Muslim culture also has some beautiful tenets that may resonate with you. Of course, the list of possibilities is endless - these were just a few off the top of my head.

Or consider checking out communities of ex-pats from North America in your current country - great way to make friends, get the inside scoop before you travel, maybe even score some hook-ups for places to stay or people to meet up with if you decide to venture across the pond.

Just some ideas. I know how hard it is to break in to new social circles. You sound like an amazing person - I have no doubt that once you find your niche you will be surrounded by more friends and support than you can likely handle!  :)

"And yeah, i've been raised with the thought that one doesn't need help, so it goes against my FOO. Asking for help is below yourself."

I was raised with a very similar mindset, but this is a lie!  We all need help!  That is part of the human condition.  I still struggle today with asking for help sometimes, but I am much better than I used to be.  The old John Wayne mentality is a bunch of BS.

All of us on this board are asking for help in our own way, and that is a sign of great strength, not weakness.  Asking for help and being willing to accept help and change ourselves takes great courage.  Doing nothing and living with the status quo is not a sign of strength in my opinion.  That is called giving up.  Don't give up.   

Harmkrakow,

What helped me recently is OTH's suggestion in this thread to watch Brene Brown's talks on YouTube. She was just on Oprah's Super Soul Sunday also which I watched on the internet. She talks about how when we are vulnerable and telling someone who listens and validates, then that's when the most meaningful connections can be made between people... . we all want to be understood. This makes a big difference in our day. Asking for help, sharing your feelings is absolutely a strength and your thread here has helped me, though you have no way of knowing that til now.

The idea of being the lone wolf sounds fairly typical of our modern mindset but in reality the people that survived through the ages were those that functioned within the group. Think about it, we are hard wired to connect, bond and protect our families, and our community. If humans lived for themselves, mankind would have died out long ago. The pat wisdom of you are born alone you die alone is just that... . an utterance without real contemplative reflection of the human experience.


d.

Understandable, your feelings are understandable. You do matter, those on this board that are rooting for you, that have walked the journey you are on right now, understand and are here to tell you,  you matter.

C