BPDFamily.com

So this issue came up in another thread but I thought I might get more responses if I started a new one.

How do I tell the difference between enabling and actually helping? I don't want to enable (obviously) but, on the other hand, I have a vested interest in having my dBPDh be calm or more stable. He makes horrible decisions and acts very impulsively when he's agitated these days. I know it isn't my job to soothe him, but it IS my job to make sure my life doesn't get messed up by his poor behaviour and my soothing usually helps him to make better choices. So what is the difference between 'enabling' and helping someone to calm down so that they sleep or stop dissociating or whatever? And where exactly is the line between 'soothing' and simply 'validating'? Because he finds [url=https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation]validation (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation)[/b][/url] soothing (which makes sense). Having him calm makes my life a lot easier... .   But is my 'help' just enabling him? Gah. So confusing! Thoughts?

Examples - convincing him to see his doctor and me talking to his doctor about symptoms that my H can't see for himself (e.g. dissociative episodes), is that good or bad? Or validating his stress re work and then helping him to see that he's perhaps taken some of the issues out of context, is this okay? Or what about taking care of extra household chores so that he can relax after work or sleep in (he has insomnia atm)? I sort of feel like everything I do is wrong... .  

Arabella-  Thank you for posting this.  I have the same problem/issues. 

My examples are very similar to yours.  One doctor will tells me (actually kind of shames me by saying I should have been doing it)  to help my BPDH by putting his proper meds in pill boxes and remind him so he can be on a schedule with his meds and the next doc will tell me to "let him do it on his own, don't treat him like a child".  On doc will tell me not to buy sugar and caffeine because I know it triggers problems in him and the next tells me that I am codependent (who isn't) and I am trying to control him thru what I buy!  And the best one is from the T.  She told me to quit treating him like a child and quit telling him what to do (cause he is so good at deciding when he should clean the house himself? hmmnn NO!) and then told me later that it is my responsibility to remind him to fill out his daily pages and to practice his DBT and to . . . . etc etc.  Now tell me what the difference is between reminding and telling cause my BPDh is going to see them exactly the same. 

But no, I have really been drawing my boundaries at the household chores.  Why should he get to rest  when I don't?  I have found when I give him an inch he takes a mile. I work 2 jobs to keep us afloat so he just has to help out more around the house cause I am only human and I am about ready to snap as it is.  I can only do so much and this camels back is really hurting.

Preface:  I was married to an alcoholic for 10 years.  I attended lots of Al-Anon meetings.  They said I needed to stop the co-dependency and allow him to suffer the consequences of his actions or lack of action. 

OK... .   so here's the deal.  He was in and out of jail a lot.  He lost his drivers license twice (that I know of).  I drew the line.  I said that I would not bail him out of jail if he was caught driving under the influence.  I would not pay any fines.  I would not be his chauffeur... .   etc.  So, what ends up happening?  He got caught again, but didn't tell me.  His step mother bailed him out and gave him money for a lawyer.  He drove for 6 months on a suspended license and got caught for that and ended up in jail again which meant no work and no paycheck.  My kids and I ended up having to move in with a friend because my salary wasn't sufficient to pay the rent on the house we were in and had to go on emergency subsidence.  Meanwhile, he was in a rather cushy little jail with 3 hots and a cot, lots of activities to entertain him and not have to lift a finger for a year!  Hmmm... .   who suffered the consequences of his actions?  This was just one of many instances where allowing him to "suffer the consequences of his actions" became more suffering for me and my children.  I was very confused about this "don't be co-dependent" thing.

Oddly enough, I found one description of co-dependency that I found rather disturbing.

Characteristics of Co-dependent People Are:

    An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others

    A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to “love” people they can pity and rescue

    A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time

    A tendency to become hurt when people don’t recognize their efforts

    An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment

    An extreme need for approval and recognition

    A sense of guilt when asserting themselves

    A compelling need to control others

    Lack of trust in self and/or others

    Fear of being abandoned or alone

    Difficulty identifying feelings

    Rigidity/difficulty adjusting to change

    Problems with intimacy/boundaries

    Chronic anger

    Lying/dishonesty

    Poor communications

    Difficulty making decisions

Ahhhhhhhh!  Sounds very similar to the characteristics of the BPD! 

So what does this all mean?  I think it may mean different things to different people and their circumstances.  To me it meant finding a better balance for my life and taking care of myself.  I chose my battles.  I try not to sweat the small stuff and find healthier ways to deal with the things I consider the big stuff (creating boundaries that are reasonable and enforceable).  Not cover up anyone's "stuff."  Find healthy options for soothing my own anger.  Stop trying to be everyone's salvation.  Quit trying to "do it all."  Allow others to be exactly as they are~~like it or not~~it's then up to me to decide whether having them in my life enhances it or not and how involved I want them in my life (if at all).  Love others deeply, but not become enmeshed (we are all still individuals)... .   all this and so much more.

It's a growing process and I'm having to constantly work to keep myself in check... .   I had a very strong co-dependent mother who trained me well (much to my detriment) and it's taking me years of working at this to figure out just how involved I should or shouldn't be in someone's life~~especially in a romantic relationship.  I still struggle... .   I stumble and fall... .   but I get back up and move forward and that's the best that I can do.

So, pk, how did you resolve the contradictory advice? Do you feel confident in the way you are progressing now? It's interesting that you mention treating your H "like a child" - mine occasionally says that to me, that I'm treating him like a child. I feel like snapping back, "That's because you're acting like a child!" lol This most recently came up when I transferred our remaining savings into a separate bank account that he can't access. He said I was treating him like a child by not trusting him with the money (background: he ready half of the savings on an impulsive vacation for himself two months ago and I only found out after the $ was gone).

Rockylove - that's an interesting list. I recognize a few of the items in myself but, for the most part, I don't think it's very "me"; which is odd because I always thought of myself as having codependency issues. The abandonment thing is my biggest problem. I do worry that I'll sacrifice too much simply out of fear of abandonment. Then again, I'm aware of it and I'm trying to stay in control of that, so I'm hoping that makes a difference. I too have a very codependent mother and I see how that has been a huge detriment to her happiness. I also see the flip side and how helping others is sometimes just helping ourselves. I just have a very hard time to tell where the line is. I think I'm pretty good at not 'rescuing' my friends/family but it's all very muddled when it comes to my dBPDh - probably because we live together, have joint finances, etc. Are we just too enmeshed?

Rocky Love, I agree with you and Arabella that the list sounds more BPD than codependent.

I must admit I do try to control things in my immediate life like the environment in which I choose to spend my time and sleep in and I certainly do more than my share cause if I want it done I kinda just have to do it myself.  As far as trust, the only one i don't trust is my BPDh lol.   I too, had to remove all access of money from him after he bought people he just met on the internet  over 10,000 in gifts so they would like him!  Guitars, jerseys, cameras, cash, computers and the list goes on and on.

No, I would say my major codependency issue is trying to save him from himself and self destruction.   I know I must stop doing that and that when I do he will succeed.  We have had two suicides this week in our small community.  But some days I feel like I am trying to hold back a tsunami.

Thanks for being there for a shoulder and an ear.

arabella, I think there is sometimes a very fine line between helping our partner and being codependent while trying to maintain some sanity in our crazy lives.  That was what I was up against with my ex-husband... .   if I let him "fall," I was going down with him.  My fiance is such a space cadet at times that I find I'm constantly telling him where he left something that he can't find.  That in itself can be considered codependent if the motivation is for me to feel better about myself by knowing where he left his whatever!   I think it may take some deep soul searching to understand what our motivations are in doing what we do. 

I don't think I intentionally got together with my ex to "rescue" him from himself or his situation, but in retrospect, that's what I ended up doing.  He was very charming and I loved the attention he showered me with... .   much like my current fiance!  I see so many similarities between the two relationships and the common denominator is ME!  Eeeek! 

My fiance told me that I do things I don't want to do just so that I can feel needed.  That really hit me!  I seriously thought I'd broken that pattern of behavior and it seems I was doing it again!  I abruptly put the brakes on and regrouped.  (Oddly enough, he does it too... .   but that's not anything I have control over)  Anyway, when I do things that I really don't want to do, it causes resentment and anxiety.  I don't like the feeling and so it's up to me to say "no" when it's in my best interest to do so.

Since I know that I have codependent tendencies, I feel that it's in my best interest to focus on what I am doing/not doing and that's a big job!  Practicing mindfulness helps to gain an understanding of my motivations.  I don't always stay in awareness, but I keep trying.

I don't always know that I'm acting in a codependent fashion and I find that seeing what codependency is in print helps me to avoid the behaviors.   

"... .   the partner who is codependent can be "the better person, the smarter person, the person who's recognized as having it all together. They're defining themselves as strong enough to deal with it when actually they need to realize that maybe they should be taking care of themselves instead of proving their strength."

Wetzler says simply being in a relationship -- even one that's not ideal -- may also be comforting. "A lot of times, people have low self-esteem and say, 'I'm no good, no one would want me, and therefore I have to put up with this.' These negative thoughts are very common," he says, "and they have a big impact on why people stay in relationships that may not be good for them."... .   "

(www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/signs-of-a-codependent-relationship)

Great thread!

This is something that I too am constantly working on. I often turn to the notes I wrote when I first discovered my codependency and read a few books on it, the notes were my  :light: moments.

For me it is about observing and questioning like you are Arabella. I notice a behaviour that could be controlling, I wonder to myself what would happen if I didn't do it - and how I would feel - the feelings are key and help me to figure out my underlying motivations.

I am aware of the panic I would feel if I didn't 'help' him with something that he 'needed' help on. Now I try to breathe through that and let go of my need to help him.

However there are, like you say, times when the boundary is still blurry between helping and enabling. There is plenty I do to 'keep things smooth', but for now I see that as helping the family, I let him sleep (tiredness is a major trigger). Sometimes I will offer to help him with an email or something he finds hard, and I realise that this is ME, so most times I try to wait until he asks for help.

It is hard to shake this codependency thing, great to keep questioning yourself on it!

Love Blazing Star

Sounds like it is on the slippery slope to me. Telling his doctor about things that he isn't very aware of doesn't sound like enabling.

Trying to get somebody to see the doctor... .   I dunno about that.


I don't think that validation is ever "bad" or enabling. I wish I could do it more consistently :)


Validating is about hearing him and understanding him. I would say it comes out of compassion, and when you do it, you feel better for it, not worse. Soothing may include expressing agreement or approval ... .   when you may not feel it. Validation simply expresses the understanding, not agreement or disagreement.


I'm assuming the insomnia isn't a result of stupid behavior you don't want to put up with. This sounds like helping. Just like you would care for him if he was recovering from knee surgery or something like that.

The trick on this sort of "helping" is to do what you feel like doing in a spirit of generosity. If you start to feel resentment, or feel like you are "owed" something in return, you are probably doing too much.

Ok, I have been working on not being co-dependent but as usual, I'm not not playing the martyr either, but last night I asked my BPDh to get some sleep so that he could bring me some lunch at work so we could have lunch together as I could not leave work today and nothing to make a lunch out of.  I didn't nag at him but did remind him when I went to bed that I was depending on him.  He stayed up all night, I don't mean late, I mean he never slept and so I did not get to eat any lunch today.   So as Rockylove  pointed out.  I did not behave in a co-dependent way ( I don't think) but once again I was the one that suffered while he slept most of the day.  The worst part is I had a fight with him because he kept insisting that he could drive (I hate it when he does this)  It is like a drunk slurring "I can drive"  I kid you not he kept falling asleep talking to me on the phone.  Yes, I suppose I should have had something on hand to eat.  Guess it just proves to me once again I can't rely on him.

Ah, controlling! Yes, I think that helps me. Where I am trying to manipulate a situation I need to stop and think about my motivation - is it for me or for him? If it's for him then is it compassion for something that is not his fault or is it enablement of negative behaviour? And, again, the difference I see between compassion and enabling seems to be control. Compassion is for no-fault issues and enabling occurs with regard to 'fixing' consequences of poor decision-making. Of course, sometimes I/we enable because we feel the consequences just as strongly (or even more so) than the perpetrator (e.g. Rockylove's earlier example).

I also am grappling with how much is truly his 'fault' and how much is spinning outside of his reach atm. Normally a lot of what he's doing would have me in fits. But if he's barely able to keep himself from the brink of suicide and not sleeping, then not being able to manage his frustration or do extra work seems sort of just symptomatic of actual illness rather than a choice. Another slope to deal with.

I wonder too how much codependency is actually just a normal and necessary function of interpersonal relationships. I mean, we have to be codependent to some degree - otherwise we're really just alone. The problem is where to draw the line. I keep questioning myself but I'm not coming up with any really solid answers.

GreyKitty - part of my problem is that I don't ever resent the things that I do. It's like my internal help-o-meter is miscalibrated. It takes a LOT before I'll feel like my H owes me anything if it's things I chose to do. If it's things that I default to, e.g. in PK's lunch situation, maybe I had to order in a crappy lunch, where I feel resentment. I generally am most upset by lack of follow-through on his part rather than being upset by things I've done myself. I get disappointed a lot, but I'm comfortable with the amount that I do.

I might say that some codependency is likely unavoidable unless the people in the relationship are both saints / fully enlightened beings / etc. But I think I'm going to continue trying to eliminate all of it that I can from my relationships. I doubt I'll ever get there, but it seems worth trying


Arabella, I'm not sure what to say about your miss-calibrated help-o-meter... .   I see two possibilities... .  

:) You are a naturally generous person, and feel good about it. You are also self-aware enough that you don't give more than you feel comfortable with.

 You are out of touch with those feelings and aren't even noticing the problem.

I'm suspecting it is the happy generous option, and your disappointment is just about how you are being treated--in a genuinely crappy way--not about the imbalance between what you give and what you receive.

I dunno how much weight to put on "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus", but I am reminded of the chapter in that book on keeping score. Typically men will notice when the score gets uneven in their disfavor... .   and just stop giving as much. Typically women will keep on giving until the score has shifted way far uneven against them, and then get walloped by a lot of resentment. (And typically men and women didn't score things the same way to further complicate things)

I know I've seen myself backing off in that "typical" male version.

Err... .   wait a second here... .   I just read what you wrote again: "I generally am most upset by lack of follow-through on his part" This sounds like an important feeling. If you are upset about his lack of follow-through... .   were you "pushing" him to do something? And upset because he didn't do what you wanted?

I know I'm repeating myself (I've said this in many threads) but it's worth repeating just to remind myself!  Expectations lead to disappointment.  If you expect nothing you'll never be disappointed.  I know that's not what we are taught as a rule, but think about it.  Your BPD says he'll do something and you naturally expect him to do it.  I'm sure he means it at the moment he says it, but you know from experience that it isn't going to happen.  If you keep expecting him to do what he says, you'll keep being disappointed.  We all know the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing expecting different results... .   it applies here! 

It's not an easy thing to drop expectations, but when you are dealing with an adult that thinks like a child, you're going to have many times where they will fall short of what you think they should do. 

My fiance will get up early (for him) and say he's going to accomplish X, Y and Z.  I'll come home from work and he's dripping with pride over accomplishing A and B, which probably would have taken me an hour but took him all day and X, Y and Z are still on the "to do" list.  I can only be disappointed if I expect X, Y and Z to be done, but I know from experience that isn't going to happen and that is what I have to be content with and learn to validate his feelings of accomplishment in completing A and B.  Just as I would with a child... .   because he is, in many respects, a child. 

There is an up side to this!  If X, Y and Z actually DO get accomplished, I'm pleasantly surprised and can give him genuine kudos!  That feels good to both of us :)

I'm not sure if I'm a generous person or if I'm just out of touch either! I do sort of buy into that whole idea of there being no such thing as altruism though. Doing things for people makes me feel good - so I get 'rewarded' immediately regardless of any reciprocation. I don't think I expect a perfect balance in any of my various relationships, I tend to only get annoyed when I suspect someone is purposely taking advantage of me... .  

Hey, maybe it's a matter of the enabling vs helping thing again? I'm happy to help but not to enable! So, enabling is like having one's helpful nature taken advantage of. Maybe?


It's not something specific that I'm thinking of. And I don't generally 'push' to get anything. Perhaps that's the most upsetting part of it - he'll quite willingly agree, or even volunteer, to do things but then just not do them. Now, if it doesn't really affect me, I just don't care because it's not my problem. But if it does directly affect me, like in pk's lunch example, that really bothers me (in that example I wouldn't ask him to bring me lunch, but I'd be upset if he volunteered to and then didn't). I feel uncared for and let down.

Rockylove - I just can't get to that place where I have zero expectations. Even with children I have at least some expectations! Overly ambitious with a to-do list I can deal with, but lack of care or respect for other people starts to wear thin very quickly... .  

I just found an old workshop on here that addresses the 'enabling' vs 'supporting' issue. I haven't read through it yet, but I thought I'd post the link here for anyone interested in discussing! :)

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=95263.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=95263.0)

The way I look at it is that both with "helping" as well as with "enabling" we take action to reach across to the other person and extend ourselves. Some considerations may be

 - how did this need arise?

 - how was this need communicated?

 - is there a dysfunctional behavioral pattern on the other side?

 - is it part of a game we both are playing?

 - which of my needs do I satisfy here?

and maybe more important:

 - what about my boundaries, values and need to maintain consistency around them (or is this a case of a justified exception?)

 - what are the consequences of me helping/enabling here?

Having needs and projecting those needs to our partners is human. Giving, sharing to create and maintain bonds is also human. The challenge we face is that we are in relationships where these basic connection mechanisms have been abused a lot. We lost perspective and balance. Questioning yourself is part of regaining them.

We will run risks when we give that we enable dysfunction. We will run risks if we not help that we let people down. There are clear examples for both but I doubt there is a clear line diving the two, there is likely a grey area between the extremes. Something to consider: When you have never helped not enough or helped too much - how can you know where the grey area is and how wide it is? And if you have done that in the past - are you sure the landscape has not shifted in your relationship e.g. by you requesting more help recently?

It may be worth contemplating what drives your need to distinguish the two correctly... .  

One of the biggest hurdles is that you have often been enabling this neediness for years before you even realize what you have done, or the disorder you are up against. So you are well and truly entrenched behind the 8 ball. It is then a slow slog back to "normal" if there ever is a "normal" in a BPD relationship.

To move into the helping mode and away from the enabling means first getting your self unenmeshed, so the consequences of their "failures" has less effect on you so it easier to define your boundaries without over burdening yourself with the consequences.

It will be a slow procedure unless you want to end up in your own Vietnam war scenaro. The main issue is probably not the end result but the fact that you are enacting changes and are getting more saying in your life, and letting go of the dramas in theirs.

Household chores is a common issue, some areas of our house I declare no go areas for me and they are garbage dumps. Other areas I use a lot I keep how I would like regardless of who makes the mess, otherwise I will be stressed all the time.

Bottom line keep focused on the important issues you need to address, allow others to just wash for now. Accept it is a dysfunctional relationship and just apply a dose of Acceptance to some issues. It is an attitude you are addressing not individual issues.

Enabling is more obvious when it results in displays of entitlement and expectancy.

A great thread.

For me, it was a number of things (almost like steps, of which I am not all the way through even).

First was as stated, to detach and 'unmesh' such that the result isnt so hard to take.  This would mean having a backup for that lunch that was promised, because the REALITY of the relationship is you just cant rely on him.  So stop relying on him/her for something they are unable to provide

Which includes the concept that there are several things in the relationship that I assumed to be part of any healthy relationship - which are not the case in this one - and I have to give up the idea that its going to happen.  ie: acceptance that it doesnt meet expectations, and I have to be ok with that.  Followed by an inventory to learn what I can, and cannot get/expect from the relationship.

The concept of 'counting' or keeping track of what is 'fair' is hopeless.  Do what you can to the degree you can.  Doesnt matter if its balanced.  It only matters if you can make this particular relationship genuinely work.  Which also means being aware of YOURSELF and recognizing when you are having feelings of resentment.

You have the responsibility to yourself, and to the relationship, to NOT do things that will cause resentment to build.  This  includes things like relying on your partner for something, and then feeling resentment when they dont follow through.  This is entirely within your control - quit relying on someone to do something they are not capable of doing.

I find taking ownership to prevent my own resentment one of the hardest items to maintain.  Which just means the acceptance isnt fully 'radical' - more work to do.

I think this is great advice. I do tend to get bogged down in the minutiae and fail to appreciate the bigger picture sometimes. Interestingly, my dBPDh is less codependant than I am and he doesn't really expect much, he's very independent, so that helps.




This goes back to the problem where I don't actually feel resentment. As Grey Kitty said earlier, either I'm out of touch and this is going to blow up at some point, or I'm good at setting my limits and not doing things that I'll be resentful over later. Not sure which it is... .   Mostly I just don't want to enable because I don't want to make things worse - it's for the other person's benefit, not mine.

I think I'm having difficultly with that concept of what is realistic and what isn't. With a physical disability it's so much more obvious what the person is, and is not, capable of doing. With BPD it's tricky. He's capable of doing almost anything but, depending on his state of mind, he can get 'stuck'. Obviously the amount he was doing was too much - he dissociated, got depressed, and almost had to be hospitalized. But where is the line? How much should I do to relieve the pressure and how much is just me making excuses for him? I don't mind doing the stuff, but I also realize that he needs to take responsibility for himself.

Always a work in progress though, isn't it? :)

Great question. Here's an idea for you:

Make a list of say, 5-10 things you are considering doing for him.

Rank them all on a scale of most helpful to most enabling.

Then pick a "cutoff" point and try to just do the things on the more helpful / less enabling side of it.

It's the grey area that's the problem for sure. I'm good at identifying the stuff at either end of the spectrum, it's all the stuff in the great big middle that gets me! You know, the thing that is driving me the most right now is... .   well, maybe it's two things actually: 1) my need for my pwBPD to become 'unstuck' - obviously the status quo isn't working so I'm looking for positive changes; and 2) all of the people on bpdfamily.com repeating over and over that enabling and codependency are really bad (I know I have codependency issues, working on those, but the 'enabling' thing is a new paranoia that I've just picked up here). So here I am trying to figure it all out.

Grey Kitty - I like your list idea. It's concrete and simple. It might help me weed out some stuff at the outlying areas of the help/enable spectrum. Of course, half the time I don't even realize I'm doing these things... .  

This is a good idea, the cut off point can be fairly nominal. The point is you are demonstrating a willingness to help, and hence validating him. The danger you are having at the moment is swinging the opposite way and appearing unhelpful and hence invalidating.

There will always be a "grey area", that is normal. Attempting to rid the relationship of grey areas can also be seen as too controlling.

I actually hadn't thought of it that way, waverider, but I think those are some really good points re going too far in the opposite direction or eliminating the grey. I do think that sometimes I get into that trap of wanting definitive answers where there aren't any to be had. Add 'control issues' to my list of things to work on! lol

I believe reasonable boundaries must be set in the very beginning of the relationship as to how much energy will be spent on doing things for the BPD individual. If boundaries are set later on in the relationship, all the BPD will do is rebel against them and blame you for not being sensitive and caring. Just my experience I suppose... .  

It is a good theory, except it sneaks up on you especially as the relationship dynamics change dramatically as the worst of BPD traits start to show. But in principle the sooner you can get boundaries established the easier it will be. Reversing entrenched behavior is very hard.

I have to say that my dBPDh's insomnia doesn't seem to be caused by anything he's doing. He gets up early, doesn't nap, works-out regularly, doesn't consume any caffeinated products after about 3pm, etc. He goes to bed at a reasonable hour too - he just can't actually sleep. So I don't feel bad about trying to 'help' on that issue as I don't think he can do anything about it (he's also asked his doctor about it, unfortunately the doctor doesn't grasp the gravity of the situation - whole other rant there though). Of course, we come back again to where to draw the line - I can't blame everything on lack of sleep just to give myself an excuse to enable him.

I may be reaching my limit on helping. No resentment, I'm just burnt out emotionally and starting to lose energy. This is not good... .    I need to find some more strength to just keep plugging along here.

It's great that you are recognising this so you can catch it!

What are you going to do to 'fill your cup back up' and nourish yourself?

I have been feeling a little empty too lately. Today I am going to have a long hot bath during my children's naptime, and then spend some time this afternoon doing something creative - which for me is a great cupfiller!

I look forward to hearing your ones.

Love Blazing Star

I am actually at a bit of a loss on this one, Blazing Star. My usual activities aren't helping and neither are the new ones I'm trying. Maybe I need a new thread for this topic over on Personal Inventory... . ? Or maybe because it's so tied up with my situation it should be here on the Staying board too?

Problem I had when trying to reverse individual issues like this is you could concentrate on them, eventually get there after much drama. Move onto next issue, meanwhile previous "addressed" issues start to become unlearned.

There are too many individual issues, like so many holes in a leaky bucket and too few fingers to plug them. You end up chasing your tail and getting frustrated. Its best if boundaries are more related to attitude and respect rather than specific issues which are only symptoms.

Most of our biggest advances have come on the back of major crises, which may have proved deal breakers for many.

It is slow, long and hard with 5 steps forward and four back. At times the tank does run dry and you lose ground you have gained because you are drained. Thats ok, you are only human.

Reflecting back on how things were 6 months ago, or a year, rather than last week is a better measure of whether you are really getting anywhere. Realize also what you are aiming to achieve. To me it wasn't being anywhere in particular, it was just so long as I was going somewhere and not stuck in endless groundhog day, never moving forward, that was my biggest frustration.

Helping helps you achieve this, enabling cements you in place. That is ultimately the measure of the two... . what is a particular action achieving, progress or stagnant patterns.

The clothes hanging example is enabling as it is feeding  a stagnant entitlement type behavior, nothing useful is being achieved by you doing this. If it was as easy for you as it was for him and freed him up to go do some other useful task, that would be helping.

Oh that's a shame, perhaps you need a bit more of an 'intensive' cup filler? Like a mini-break, a long weekend away, in nature, in a new city, doing and seeing some new things? Could you go and stay at a friend's for a long weekend? The kind of friend who will just leave you to do your thing? Maybe you need a true change of scene to kick start the cupfilling? Is this something that could be possible for you?

And if not, maybe a brainstorm of some new things? Is there something you have always wanted to learn, what things are on your "One Day" list? Find a class/group to get into a new interest?

Love Blazing Star

waverider - more good advice! Yes, you're right, focusing on the short term, or on individual issues, often backfires. I am guilty of doing this far too often and, when I catch myself and look at the big picture, I feel much more centred and confident. Part of my problem right now is that my H has only been in this state of dissociation for 4-5 months, so comparing anything to 6 months or a year ago is kind of hard. BUT I have been trying to look at things as they relate to the future - not tomorrow, but a month or a year from now. Sometimes perspective is everything, isn't it?

Blazing Star - I think a more intensive cup-filler is definitely in order. This is not something I'm good at (I suppose it's good that at least I know that). My H and I are separating at the end of this month (his plan) so I know I have hard days ahead with him gone, it makes me reluctant to give up time now. It feels like the end approaching. My detachment skills obviously need some work... .  

I've taken up hot yoga (it's cold where I am). Got an unlimited pass for the month so that I could really immerse myself. I thought it might help and I've always wanted to try it. I do enjoy it, but it isn't enough. I added gourmet herbal tea. I pulled out the fancy soaps and candles. I started eating more treats (I'm losing weight due to anxiety so I figure no time like the present to eat cake for breakfast). Now I'm looking up therapists (I tried one already but he was awful) and I found a codependents anon group that I think I might check out next week. I'm hoping something helps.

I don't really have any extra money to spare and I can't venture too far as I am job hunting and volunteering to gain some experience. What I really want is a hot sandy beach (don't we all? lol)... .   I don't think I have any friends who have quiet space atm but I like that idea! Any other ideas or suggestions? You seem to have some great ideas and I'm all ears!

It sounds like you are doing all the right things. Which is great.

I am wondering about your feelings about the separation (sorry if I have missed threads about this, I don't know your whole story). So I am wondering if perhaps there are some deeper feelings here that need to be explored, allowed, released?

All the self-care stuff is wonderful, from personal experience I know that it can sometimes be a way of avoiding feelings. Not that you should stop doing any of the self nurturing, just be aware of and dialogue with some feelings too. Your therapist will help you with this when you find one you click with.

What are your thoughts? And also, what are your feelings over the separation? Do you think that the reason your usual feel-good activities aren't working could be because there is some deeper stuff going on?

Love Blazing Star

Blazing Star - thank you for continuing to help me with this!

You're right, I am rather swamped with emotions regarding the separation right now. I know that's what's at the root of my burn out. I am hoping that once the separation happens I'll be able to relax a bit. I spent a lot of energy trying to figure out what was going on, walking on eggshells, panicking over the practical aspects of separating, grief over the loss of my relationship, trying manage my dBPDh's crisis state (emergency medical attention required, etc), and then trying to deal with my own emotions surrounding everything. It was/is too much. I honestly don't even know what I feel anymore. I'm completely overwhelmed. So I was trying the self-care as a buffer, trying to soothe myself enough to function. Of course I'm fighting a losing battle with that one, but it's the best I can manage atm.

So... .   All of this sort of led into my pondering the boundaries of helping vs enabling. I was looking for a line in the sand to try to keep myself from drowning. I don't think I've quite found my balance. Again, maybe it will become clearer once my H is gone? Or maybe that will do me right in, I'll hit rock bottom, and then I'll find my line on my way back up? I don't know. I do know that my current coping skills aren't working!

    


It's great you are looking at all of this. It does sound like something that will just need to be gone through in whatever shape or form it takes. I think that pulling back some more and allowing yourself some safe space to really feel the emotions might help. Keeping the focus on yourself. How would it feel to let go? To stop resisting and go to the depths of the swamped/overwhelmed feeling... .  

Scary perhaps, of the fear that you wouldn't be able to cope?

Could you play with this a little? Create a nest in your bed, or other safe space (even dressed in your fave comfy clothes and take a drive in your car, park somewhere in nature where no one else is, take a journal, a warm drink, some comfort tools). And give yourself permission to really feel these feelings? To cry, lament, sob, yell, whimper, whatever needs to come up.

And then do some self care stuff before returning to the real world, even if it is just kind talk to yourself like you would a friend who was feeling these things "Honey, it's okay, let go, it is all going to be okay, I love you... .   "

And how is the therapist search going?

Love Blazing Star

Oh, I so needed those hugs! Thank you!

Every once in awhile I wallow. I've had a few meltdowns since this all started - the sobbing to exhaustion, the full drain out, the sappy emails to myself, etc. I think some yelling might be good, I'll have to find a space for that one where the police don't end up coming to investigate! lol

I really like your idea to purposely create a time and space for this activity. It sounds like it might be more effective, more mindful rather than just desperate.

I may have found a therapist... .   I need to book an appointment. To be honest, it scares me, and that's holding me back. I'm going to make the leap, just have to talk myself up to it! I also have a limited number of sessions to use through my insurance, so that makes me nervous too, I know I'm wasting sessions in my search process. So frustrating! My H agreed to go to at least the first session with me, at the T's request, so that at least this T will have a bit better idea as to what's going on. That makes me nervous too - I don't know if just going will cause him to dysregulate further. Eggshells.

I really don't have anything of substance to add... .   just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you and sending lots of cyber      

Normal feelings, the fear. I felt this too, and like you my sessions are limited, so I just spread them out.

Be brave, take the leap! You are worth it!

And re those eggshells - put your power boots on, the ones that you feel a million dollars in, then put your favourite tune on loud in your ipod and walk/dance away - you won't feel or hear those darn eggshells!



Love Blazing Star

Rockylove - thank you! Sometimes a  is just as good as words! I just need to keep moving forward. One step at a time, one step at a time... .  

Thanks, Blazing Star! As always, your pep talk and positivity are very welcomed! I definitely need to pull out some boots... .   :)

"... .  that is what I have to be content with and learn to validate his feelings of accomplishment in completing A and B.  Just as I would with a child... .    because he is, in many respects, a child." -rocklove

I just stumbled onto this thread today and every post is as good as the one before... .  it's going to take a while to go through all this - but I have SO many questions about what is being said here... .  such as the above comment... .  is this REALLY true? Or are we enabling by treating them... .  and expecting so little of our significant other? I read Melody Beattie's book a lot and she says people are not so helpless as we make them out to be. I know this is a complicated issue! I really do get that. But at the same time, maybe people in our lives are living (or barely living) up to our low expectations? I dunno.

Maybe if we stopped picking up their slack we would find they can do it. Maybe I'm the delusional one? Please comment all you awesome people.

-jedicloak

I'm not sure if it matters if it's true or not, jedicloak. I validate the good because that is helpful. I've stopped with most expectations because I realized that my expectations are just that - mine. I may want my H to do certain things or behave in a certain way but, ultimately, I have no control over whether he complies or not. So I'm trying to let go. He is who he is and he's going to do what he wants. I'm not going to get upset when he doesn't live up to my random expectations.

This is different than boundaries though - there are some things that I need in order to make maintaining this r/s worthwhile for me. If he crosses those boundaries then I will leave. I don't expect anything these days, but at a certain point I'll just walk away. It's not up to my H to fulfill some fantasy role I have dreamed up in my head but, on the other hand, I'm not going to stay in a r/s that I get nothing out of, or that tramples my boundaries, either. (Disclaimer: bear in mind my boundaries are still sort of vague... .  I'm working on this!)

Right now I'm at a stage where I just tell him he can do whatever he wants - but it's up to him to deal with the consequences on his own, I'm not going to be bailing him out (enabling), and I'm not sticking around for abuse either. So he can live up to his own expectations and set those at whatever level he sees fit. And I notice his behaviour is improving... .  hmm... .  

I hear/read what you're saying clearly. BUT, ok, there is a but, is it healthy to be in a marriage (or whatever) and not have expectations of our SO? I mean isn't that what a partnership is or have I got that messed up to? Maybe I'm not supposed to have expectations except that they respect my boundaries, get treated with dignity and respect and in return I'm "supposed" to love them for who they are, and they me? Maybe the whole problem is our expectations in marriage OR is it, that I am not holding them accountable to my reasonable expectations in marriage? AUGH! Maybe because there is no "right" answer - or maybe I just don't know what it is.

How can we have a marriage where one person is just running around doing what they feel like? If I wanted a child, wouldn't I just adopt? Just asking the questions... .  curious what you think?

Jedicloak, you sound just like me! lol I keep looking for answers but I suspect that the real improvement comes with the process and even just asking the questions.

I think of a partnership as each person contributing their own pieces to a larger whole. I am still me whether I am in a r/s or not. I behave like me, I react like me, I love like me - no amount of expectation from my H is going to change that, I'll just get frustrated in trying. I treat him with dignity and respect because I want to, not because he expects me to or because I am "supposed" to. It's not a trade off either. I will treat him with dignity and respect regardless of how he treats me - because I am the type of person who treats others with dignity and respect.

Think of it this way, perhaps your boundary is that you will not be in a r/s with someone who does not treat you with dignity and respect (however you define that). It's not that you expect your partner to behave this way, it's that if he doesn't, you will leave.


If you think about it, everyone always just runs around doing what they feel like all the time. It's just that what I feel like is maintaining my friendships and social status and so I therefore behave in a way to facilitate that. I do what I want - sometimes that means helping my H, sometimes that means I have to let him fall in order to preserve myself. Setting expectations, or 'goals' for our partners to meet, actually sounds a lot like parenting to me.

So now what do you think? (I think this is a really interesting topic!)

Oh those are particularly insightful! I'm going to ponder that.

Important point, two clear issues

1 Boundaries to protect you well being

2 Relationship rewards. Even if no boundaries are crossed and and dysfunctional behavior resolved, the question remains what are you getting of a RS?

It is entirely feasible that even with successful therapy and resolution of issues, you end up like strangers with too little in common to justify a RS. There still has to be a point to it.