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I have to write off again, I’m sorry folks.

Last few days have been one hell of a sick train ride (Sick/puking/bed/crying/shower for 3 hours... ). Got the flu, it’s seriously cold here in the Netherlands (especially for the time of the year :X)

She (ex) called last Monday because she wanted a receipt from me which would show her I paid for her outstanding debt for psychological consults she had. She then blames me for throwing away something so beautiful and that I hurt her deeply, I started to cry on the phone telling her that I never wanted any of this to unfold this way and then she got mad at me saying: if I cry she will feel guilty, (So stop crying harm!) she says she is scarred for life, how can she ever trust someone again? She told me; Harm, you have really, really hurt me. If someone like you, who has treated me so good ... because we had something good Harm, how can I ever trust someone gain? Coming from someone who was sexually and physically abused in a longer relationship than we had where they tried more than we tried in ours, and, I never laid a finger on her, never hit her and never raged at her or slammed doors, thrown things, yelled or whatever, and I’ve endured it all from her without exploding once (she did rage, my goodness). And she is very grateful to me about that, that I treated her so well and always was so selfless and that I’ve never done anything wrong to hit her and was there to help her... and she misses that so dearly. Also the intimacy...

To be hearing that, still a bit of the old gf, the new ex, and some disorders in there, the contradictions, the mal-wiring basically is so skull splitting, I need to stop trying to make sense of the chaos.

If something like the figurative speech of; “nail in a coffin” would exist, that would be it. That would be it ladies and gentlemen. After that phone call, it literally felt like a spike straight through my heart. I felt I broke again.

As some of you might know, I quit my job last Friday, meaning, I didn’t have to work on Monday and that feeling on its own, is, weird. I felt I had to relive the entire breakup of the r/s and the entire last few months which have been complete and utter hell. Being at home, tied in bed, was a complete trigger fest of the previous r/s. It was a literal trigger fest. I realized the ‘role’ of my work the last few months. It literally replaced those triggers. Although, I didn’t feel happy at work either. I didn’t feel satisfied. I felt no connection with anyone besides seeing someone as a colleague. I did the work, beyond perfection, my colleagues and superiors were happy with the work I’ve delivered, but the atmosphere, the attitude, the expectations, the 80h + more weeks, the no social life (not that I have one now either) and the beyond shallow conversations felt to me like, this, this is not it. This is not making me happy. What am I doing this for? I can’t live like this for the rest of my life; you have people almost living at work. It felt like such a waste of such precious time of life.

I been walking up and down the stairs many times that evening already tried a knot in a bed sheet to check how it feels, however, it felt just awkward. Knowing it could end just by the click of your fingers.  

Every time the emotion gets too much to me, like when the alarm bells go ringing off in my head I watch this video to keep telling myself, I am not the crazy one.  www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o80Q4pLvTE

This video is very helpful when I struggle with suicidal contemplation throughout the day. The video basically tells me, that when I feel so ~ and my intentions to take the end of my life, those thoughts are right, but it’s my misconception that it is ME who thinks that way, but something I should take control of. I know it might sound like a bit jibberish, but (besides my hotline with the shrink) the thing I watch to sort of confirm myself that is it not me, who is the crazy one and that the pain I’m suffering is not ‘crazy’ is something for me which remains important to understand.

I’ve had therapy since October, I’ve been diagnosed with depression and a burnout, they’ve dug into my past and I’ve done testing and I’m free off all the other crap, he actually says with my intelligence I should be able to kick it quite far in today’s society. However, they are not sure whether or not to put  ‘shock’ of trauma of how this r/s ended with an outcome close towards PTSD, or beginning PTSD. Of course I’ve done tests for over a long period now and mostly what comes out of it that my self-confidence declines and my paranoia increases. I think too much with my brain and feel too little with my eyes, nose and fingers.

Then I go to the supermarket, the only trip I have besides going to the bathroom. I see people laugh, I see the same people I already see the for over 10  years, they still put a smile on their face, I see couples, enjoying themselves, I see people my ages, with just a baby or kids of 2/3 years old and I see so much little joy, the sun (although blistering cold) and it’s only giving me pain. It actually adds to the pain. If I think of myself working in a supermarket, I would be sincerely depressed, I would not be able to achieve satisfaction out of such a job, but still, as I tell my shrink, I feel ashamed for not being able to do so, seeing the laugh on their faces while I knew if I had to do such work it drive me crazy. (they would never employ me with my CV for such a job).

Therefore it comes to the ancient old question, what do you want to do? As shown in the video I showed before, I feel a little the same, I feel like I have nowhere to run anymore and therefore/thus I feel the power to continue slipping away. Yes, I do struggle for my senses and belief in this world. I literally feel not that I’m just ‘not worth it being here’, but also feel like I have nothing to contribute and above that, I’ve had my chance. I’ve had my chance and I blew it, because I’ve already been once on top, I’ve worked in a top class firm, and was on top of my class and had (as what I thought) the r/s to get old with. Now months later all is gone and that, dying of a dream, as he suggested. That dying of a dream feels like a little part of you is literally getting cut of your body. And when you cut something off, a scar remains, it’s up to me if I consider that scar a wound which will kill me or something I bear with me for the rest of my life.

Besides that video I watch when I feel like pulling the plug, there’s another one about; what DO you want to do in life. What do you want to do? Where do you get pleasure from? Where do you gain from in life? Satisfaction?  www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L_cGjQSR80 I watch it to give me the confirmation that it was the right choice to end my last job as I didn’t like it, I didn’t like to do that job. It feels kinship, hearing someone else tell you, it’s stupid to do something you don’t like doing. It’s so simple, but it’s also a simple truth. I don't like life atm, so why continue?

Please people, can you tell me, can you please tell me what drives you in your life, also in addition to that post? Please answer the following questions to help out me. What pushes you out of bed in the morning? What drives you to pursue your activities throughout the day and what do you live for? As I’ve watched the video many, many times. I feel completely the same in regards of; nowhere else to run anymore. Nowhere. I’ve went abroad, I’ve moved around, I’ve tried different hobbies over the past and I thought I had it all together and now it all shattered into little pieces where I seem to, even after the break up, can’t do anything good. I felt my time has come.

I regret I quit work (confronting the pain and misery of the break up is agonizingly horrifying) and although I’m planning a road trip to America, I wonder, what for? I’ll have an interesting time for a few weeks, will meet a few new people, but I will still end up here again, if not in 1 month, definitely in 2 months. It does not feel constructive.

Last Tuesday, I sort of blew the whistle. I was upping the dosage of my anti-depressants (Paxil), I had quite a few cough drinks (Codeine) for my cold, was using melatonin and temazepam to fall asleep. I drank it with a few shots of vodka, while having the flu. I knew on forehand that these medicines have a strengthening effect on each other while being used together. I did this not to harm myself, but to feel less pain as it numbs the nerve system and that entire day i've felt immaculately crap, I’ve been trying all sorts of things to get any trigger OR thought about my ex AWAY, about what we shared together in the past, say hobby, books, the way we see life, the way we want to deal with life gone!. I literally cried in the shower, purely saying to myself, please get out of my head (ex-name). I go to my shrink with all these stories, and he refers it to heavy detoxing from a, already quite toxic relationship. It’s like cutting an onion, every layer you reach something nasty, and as you quit work, these layers are coming a bit quicker. Considering the dosis I was under that evening, I felt numb and above all, (this is the way people turn to be alcoholics, or addicted to drugs or meds) to constantly use this combination to run away, to fly away from the pain. I know, above all that what I did that night was purely flight behavior. Although my shrink/GP feel completely confident prescribing me medications as they don't see me as someone who would get addicted to this (I never smoked nor did drugs, I don't drink a lot, besides the last few days but that's purely as a sleeping tip, not throughout the day). I've had severe medications before, but was always strong enough to say, enough is enough.

During 1am in the night when I woke up, I felt so crap and so numb in my head, that I scribbled a little ‘end note’ where I wrote 7 names. I felt so numb in my head and literally thought when I laid down this letter on the floor, this ... this could be it. This is what I was waiting for ... When I was writing it, life did flash in front of my eyes, I thought about all my ex-relationships, the relationship with my mother, my father, the good things that happened in my life, the people I’ve helped, the good I produced, the mistakes I’ve made in life, the things I regret and would have done different and ending with the thought, I’ve definitely helped a few in my life and I go out on a high. I've got a few thing I can be proud of and it felt, life has been okay you know? I went back to bed and woke up feeling relatively fine. No hangover, no nothing. I read the note and saw I wrote down the name of my father, my ex, 3 lifelong friends and an American couple which has been mailing me asking how I am holding up and wanting me to go for this American road trip. It’s very interesting to see when your not completely sober, and write such a letter, what you write down, to who, and what you write.

Today, after I woke up, I couldn’t stand the light in the room, I left my bedroom, moved my bed into the bathroom (only place without a window) closed the light and continued sleeping from 10 to 3 in the afternoon. Again, crying in the bathroom asking politely for my thoughts to go away, being at home is a trigger fest of my ex, and that part is over.

Again, I’m sitting here, writing this on Wednesday evening and still feel, my time has come. I don’t know where to run anymore. I’ve had awesome r/s, I’ve had awesome work and I’ve excelled at school. What else is there for me to achieve? To pursue? My GP keeps telling me, keep holding on there, keep hanging in there until another 2 weeks so we are sure the Paxil is working, but still ... I have the feeling it s with my head.

Making sense of chaos and the anti-depressants screwing with my head reminds me of a trick my Therapist exposed me with easily.

He asked me, Harm, what do you see here? (he was showing me the painting) You have an exam, and this is the only question on your exam.

(http://www.themindfulword.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/art-mindfulness-paintbrush-paint.jpg)

I told him, well,    I saw an eye, and a red-eye brush, probably someone sad or angry, showing red eyebrows... and the blueish dots next to the eye could indicate tears and crying.

The shrink looked at me and said, you failed miserably. If this WAS your exam, you would have gotten a 0/100. What you see here is a painting, it’s paper with paint. That ... is ... it. You let your mind fill in the blanks straight away, you need to stop it …


Thanks for the post, I’ve watched the TED youtube clips of Brene Browns’ and it mostly just reminds me of what my shrink tells me every week… It’s interesting, it’s something I agree upon, it’s something I definitely have interest in but it’s not something I would not have disagreed with anyway. To me it does not shed light upon this topic differently. Nonetheless, still interesting that’s for sure.

I'm now off to bed again. Hopefully, hopefully there will be a time where I can tell you guys, you know what, it was ridiculous that I looked at life that way.

Dear Harmkrakow, 

Don't be embarrassed or afraid to check yourself to a psychiatric inpatient unit if need be.  I'll share some personal information.  I spent some time in inpatient treatment for suicidal ideation after a divorce in 2001.  I went in on the suggestion of a very close friend.  I was not in there long, but they were able to get me stabilized.  It was not an easy road out of the fog, but I made it through.  There were other contributing factors, which I won't go into, but the point I'm making is that it helped me.  I was provided around the clock care by professionals who deal with these situations on a daily basis.  Even if it's five days, or a week or two, the difference made can be significant.  I have not experienced depression at that level in some time now.  I do not take any medication for depression now, nor do I need to.

What gets me out of bed?  I enjoy my work.  I enjoy my house.  I enjoy my friends.  I enjoy my recovery networks.  I enjoy my sobriety.  I enjoy nature.  I enjoy a relationship with a higher power.  I enjoy exercise.  I enjoy imagining a better future.  I enjoy creativity, and music, and humor, and laughter, and children, and animals, and riding my motorcycle, and looking at the stars and the full moon last night, and my family, and the flowers that are starting to bloom in my front yard, and my colleagues at work, and eating a good meal, and watching good films, and water, and hot baths, and candles, and knowing that I am going to be OK regardless of what happens in this strange and beautiful world.  I also realize today that life is very short, and I want to make the very best of it while I am here.  I enjoy listening to older people tell me about their life experiences.  Hang tough.

I already discussed this with T but unfortunately, where I come from, it works a tad difference, also in regards of insurance and waiting lists which is incredibly long in this country. I will check it out again but unfortunately, our country is just not very big on rehab (psych/drugs/alcohol) centers and immediate psychological help.


Thanks for so much positivism in just a few sentences :)

I have had a rough life and am not embarrassed to admit that at the end of my marriage I checked myself into the hospital due to suicidal thoughts and depression. It was a very short visit as the doctor listened to me and told me I didn't need to stay because I was suffering from a broken heart and not  a mental illness. I went to therapy and tried anti-depressants but the medication wasn't the magic bullet I had hoped it would be, other than dulling the senses. The T helped me to understand that I had to work through the emotional pain... . that medication would carry me to a point but only so far as I had to grieve my losses and medication would help but not solve the deeper sadness I was feeling. Fast forward a few years and I got sucked into a a relationship with a NPD, and all the old sadness arrived and had to be reworked. During the dark times, I felt as though the sadness would never go away and I would remain broken... but I was mistaken. So, in answer to your question, here goes... .


What drives me is a sense of purpose in life. The purpose is I discovered the unfinished dreams I had for myself in childhood and I put those dreams into action. Painting, writing, working out, working with children in an elementary school slowly began to fill in the dark places that resided in my soul like a phantom ghost. I just made myself do it, even on the days I wanted to pull the covers up over my head and beg for release. Slowly, I stopped feeling that way, a few minutes turned into a few hours, then days, weeks, and now today, every day, there is joy in getting up and being present in the moment. When I teach a student to read, or to solve a math problem and I witness the sense of accomplishment that comes over their face, wow... . I know that right at that moment, I made a difference in the life of a child.


Appreciation for the small things, a GREAT cup of coffee on a drizzly morning, the warmth of my slippers treading down the hallway, a warm shower and good smelling soap. My senses are alive with the sights and smells of a day filled with promise. And when my heart lifts... I appreciate that it does and warmth fills me up and gives me a sense of peace. The sadness is at bay, every day is a small gift.

Sometimes, a small student in the kindergarten classes will unexpectedly give me a hug, or brush their precious little hand across my face and they break into a beautiful smile and ohhh... . how sweet those smiles. Recently a little girl grieving the death of her mother snuggled up to me and said "I am so happy right now Miss C because I know you love me". And I told her that she was right, I love her high as the sky and as deep as the ocean. And when such moments occur, the sad person that checked herself into the hospital is a distant memory but gosh, one to be honored because that sadness and the lessons I learned about life and hope created such empathy and compassion in me for others and now, myself.


I started hiking in the woods and getting out in nature, surrounded by the forest is as close to God as I can get, I go not only for the exercise but to enjoy what is yet to be discovered, a small animal, a budding flower, an unfurling fern rising out of the soil.

My friends calling me up for a cup of coffee or coming over for dinner to try a new recipe (yes, I love to cook for people), the sounds of my grandchildren playing on the beach and me pushing them on a rope swing... all these things fill me with happiness. I think I live now to experience life, not watch it on television, or a movie (although I do those things, too) but to figure out a destination of interest (museum or a book store) and I go exploring.

Sometimes, I volunteer at the local homeless shelter-serving coffee, fixing a meal, working on fund raising and every time I come away believing that the most important thing in life is our connections. For a long time I lost that connection with myself and others and slowly found my core again... and you will too. 

C

C

Harm

I feel always some relief, when I see you here on the board or even more when I read something new. And your question about "What gets me out of bed?" could even be a new interesting thread.

You are suffering from deep depression and burnout. Right now you are suffering from a serious illness. My thoughts goes in a similar direction like Phoenix. You need care. You need professionals around you. They can give you also some rhythm in your day, activities, therapy, whatever.

Your situation right now, being alone in your apartment, with your meds, without anyone, without a pet is the damn hard way. Perhaps even too hard.

Hi Harm   to you.

Well done for getting through these last few days - which sound like they've been the toughest of your life.

I bet your T is right - that leaving work has meant that you've been forced to come up against your pain much more completely - and that that is why it hurts so incredibly right now. But this does not mean that it would have been better to carry on in your job. That might well have led to greater stresses building up inside - particularly given the punishing schedule of your work. So I would advise not wasting too much time worrying about that.

A lot of people have wisely suggested that you ought to seek out some very solid support right now. And you've said that it's hard to get access to an inpatient facility in your home country. I had a couple of thoughts about that.

1) Do you have the finances to pay for private care - either in your own country or somewhere else? It would be important to find a facility that your T or GP could recommend - as I'm sure they vary tremendously in quality -  one or other of them might even be able to research that for you. Or maybe you could consult the information on this board about support that's available outside your home country.

2) I couldn't get inpatient support either when I felt suicidal and deeply depressed. It simply wasn't available to me. I was able to go to a local hospital and see an emergency GP who prescribed medication - but no more than that. So instead I did what I wrote about before - I went to stay with different sets of friends for short periods of time. I found that it helped - because like you I couldn't bear the associations in my own apartment. And what worked even better sometimes was when friends would come and stay for a few days with me. It helped to 'clean' out the old distressing associations in my home and make some new, more positive ones. It was also important simply not to be alone too much. I knew I was getting better when my apartment really started to feel like 'home' again and I no longer felt I had to restlessly travel around seeking company.

You know I think once you tackle this depression - and possible PTSD - you will find that naturally you will start to remember what it is in life that is worthwhile and joyful and keeps you going. It's just that your body, brain and emotions have gone into crisis right now and temporarily can't access those things. It doesn't mean that any of them have gone away. Or that you no longer have the capacity for the love of life - it's still there - it's just got horribly obscured for a while.

I wonder if you've tried any physical therapies during this time to support you? What's available where you live? Two things that helped me were reflexology and cranio-sacral osteopathy. I had to pay for them myself but they played a big part in  re-balancing all my systems and  slowly getting me out of crisis mode and back on track. And don't be embarrassed if you burst into tears on the reflexology coach - lots of people do it and I think they're used to it!

Please remember. This IS a crisis. It's not an indication that everything about you and your life is wrong or worthless. That somehow the whole world is a mess and will never be OK again. Your own thoughts are playing tricks on  you right now and making you believe that the way you feel is the product of some appalling, massive problem that has no solution. That is  not the case at all. It's just that you now need maximum help and resources to work your way through it. It's a battle that needs to be fought so you can come out the other side. Of course there will be work to be done to help you learn from all of this once you're through the darkest days. But right now you're in a short term emergency situation and have to behave accordingly.

You can do it Harm. Countless others on these boards have travelled this road too and reached a much better place.

Sending   to you. WWT.

You have been under some serious stress lately (understatement of the year?). Unfortunately, stress can impair our immune responses. I'm sorry you are suffering with a virus now, too, on top of everything else. But looking for the bright side... . when you are sick enough to vomit, you have some physical sensations to focus on. You can be mindful and aware of what you are feeling in your body. It is very different than the dissociative numbness and "un-real-ness" that happens with severe depression... . it helps you remember you are real, to focus on a different sort of discomfort. What do you think?

I finally had a chance to watch the video you shared. I think he makes some great points. I mean, who wouldn't want to end such miserable pain? I definitely agree it isn't wrong to want it over with. I also agree that there are alternative solutions to end the suffering than suicide, and that our thoughts and brain chemistry can work against us. Sometimes they feed off each other in kind of a negative spiral. We have to get them both to stop spinning out of control in order to start climbing back up. If the Paxil does not help, try something else. It is not unusual to have to try several different meds or dosages before you find the combination that clicks. It can be frustratingly tricky. Keep hanging in there.

I am glad you have at least discussed your options for inpatient treatment as well. I wish it were more accessible to you. I like the suggestion to consider looking abroad. May not be feasible, but it's at least something to think about.

I like that the video says it's ok to feel your feelings, too... . I would add it's good to have some support at the same time. It can be too hard to go through that all alone. The main thing is to know we don't have to deny we are sad and miserable for the sake of "pulling ourselves together." It stood out to me that his teacher saw the depression as a motivator to begin work--and it IS work. It reminds me of things that have been said already here in your thread.

In the same way it's not wrong to want your suffering to end, it's not wrong to need rest or to need love. The recent choices you say you regret and that make you feel ashamed (e.g., quitting your job, interacting with your ex)--those are the only ways you know in this moment to get your needs met. It is right to take care of yourself, and you are really trying! You need rest; you know work was wearing you out; you meet your need. It is ok. You need love, connection, comfort; you remember the only person who has given you any of those things recently; you reach out hoping she will help you. That isn't wrong. You are trying to meet your needs, to take care of yourself. Those are very good things!

I do want to address whether you think interacting with your ex is actually helping you in your goal of meeting your emotional needs. If we can use a simile, to me it is like you have become addicted to a drug. She gave you some highs, but there were also some very negative effects, and now you are in withdrawal... . you crave just one more high. But I think she is poison for you. I am afraid you could OD. Just as there are alternatives to suicide for ending pain, there are alternatives to your ex for getting love. To me it sounds like she is incapable of meeting your need, and that in fact she is doing more harm to you than good. She kicks you when you are down.  That is not your fault--you deserve compassion.


I'm sure if you knew this was important for her to have, you would have given it to her right away. It is normal for people to throw away things they don't need. You didn't do anything wrong--anyone in your shoes would probably have done the same.  These things just happen.

She was deeply hurt long before you came into her life, you are not the cause of that. She may be disappointed that she doesn't have her receipt, and seems to have trouble coping with that disappointment. You do not have to take on he responsibility for her inability to manage her feelings. She will find a new solution to the problem of the missing receipt. If she is unhappy, THAT IS NOT YOUR FAULT.


So, she is telling you, your feelings do not matter to her and she does not think they should matter to you. She only cares about her feelings and holds you responsible for taking care of them. She is showing you that her needs and feelings are more important to her than anyone else's.  Her lack of empathy is not your fault. You deserve to have your needs and feelings acknowledged and validated


Her scars, her pain, those were there LONG before you. They are not your fault. She is having trouble coping with disappointment and pain... . her feelings may be fragile and she may have trouble trusting people... . but you did not cause it, you cannot control it, and you cannot cure it. You do not cause her trust issues. Those are hers to own and work on. If she is expecting to find a person who will never hurt her or disappoint her, planet Earth is the wrong place to be looking. We ain't got perfect here. Besides, she has a predisposition to feel injured more intensely than most other people. I don't think even Perfect would be good enough.

Let's look at what is true in what she says:


You were good to her. You treated her well. To me, it sounds like you are not only adequate at giving love, you are pretty dang good at it! I do not think her unhappiness is due to an inability on your part to give her the love she needs; I think it lies in her inability to receive it.

If I plant a dud seed, it is never going to grow, no matter how diligently I care for it. I can water it, till the soil, mulch, give more sun, more shade, fertilize, thin the weeds, serenade it with a string quartet... . but if it's not going to grow, it's not going to grow. You've put in good work on your seed, Harm, but there's nothing you can do to make her grow. It's beyond your power to make anything better for her.


I am glad you can see the contradictions in her thinking. The one thing she does say (implicitly) with any consistency is that she is all that really matters to herself. The rest is shove/yank ("push/pull" seems too mild) to try to make it so that she is all that matters to you, too. She cannot hold a consistent view of you in her mind. That is all her disorder. If you need stability and consistency, or to talk to someone who can tell you the truth based on facts and not on what she is feeling at the moment, you probably need to look elsewhere.


Abuse hurts. And pretty much every bit of what she said to you in that conversation was emotionally abusive. You are already battered and bruised, on the floor... . looking for a hand to pick you up... . and she kicks you a few times right where you're already hurt and tells you to get up and take care of her instead.

Is this the kind of person who is going to be helpful in your recovery? You are in a period of meeting your immediate needs--remember, that's good! So, what do you need right now in order to begin healing these emotional injuries?

It is interesting that you mention PTSD may be a factor here. I am doing work on my own PTSD right now. One thing to note is that we cannot begin to recover from trauma while we are still being traumatized. We need to be in a safe place where we can relax our defenses. Whether or not PTSD diagnosis applies to you, I think you have endured some trauma--at her hands and possibly before she came into your life--and I can see how much it hurts you when those wounds are re-opened. I would like to see you heal... . what can you do to create the safest environment possible for that?

It is good to see you are still "doing the work." I want to answer some of your other questions about purpose, but this is already long, so I will come back to that later. To close, just a comment on your last statement:


I think there will come a time when you will be able to look back and say, "I am so PROUD of how hard I worked to take care of myself. Even when I didn't know how, I did the BEST I could, and I asked for help with the rest. Look at all the JOY in my life that is there because I was willing to do all that hard emotional work."

PF

  Hey, Harmkrakow. Just wanted to see how things are going.

Also, I have been thinking a lot about your questions about what motivates us to get out of bed in the morning. I agree that would make a good new thread. I have some answers that are true for my life now--things that have more to do with purpose and joy--and others that were probably more true when I was depressed--things like fear and image and survival. But I can't give you the answers that will be true for you, now or in your future. Only you really know those things. But if it will really help you to hear from others, I hope you will start another thread. I will keep an eye out.

One thing I would like to offer as a suggestion: Try to find something beautiful every day. It does not have to make you feel anything, just has to be something you perceive is beautiful. You can use any of your senses: seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, or even the non-physical "spiritual" sense. What do you think? Is this something you would be interested in trying?

Hope to hear from you again soon.

PF

It is something i'm interested in trying. And I do try :) but one little thing can still get overshadowed by negative feelings.

To give an overview of last week. I've been home, the entire last week, in my bad. Last Saturday till now. In bed ... . flu-ish, puking. Feeling weak, but on the other hand also drank a bottle of vodka, got myself smashed, took sleeping pills, wrote myself a suicide letter, had therapy but mostly haven't really spoken to anyone. The feeling in your head, that you want to kill yourself was at some points, SO strong. SO incredibly strong. Seriously people, the wantingness to die, was so severe, SO SO SO incredibly severe. Completely alone, feeling sick, you look on FB, ur chat, no-one there, you had no contact that day with anyone, no call. Then you feel alone and mourn about what you had with your ex. And my god, seriously, the feeling wanting to die at some points was SO strong. You literally end up falling on a pile of clothes, crying, feeling ur completely alone and I just praid. Please, whoever is there, I just want out. Kill me ... . I had 2 attempts. I had all the thoughts spooking through my head. I checked everything in regards of which is the easiest way to kill yourself. It's sincerely crazy, because when you are in such an uncontrollable phase you really think you 1) ARE going to do it and 2) it feels so calm.

I know in hindsight though know, that a lot of those suicide feelings are boosted/fuelled (not sure if its the right wording) by my Paxil anti depressants... . And yes, I will quit these anti depressants effective immediately.

And still, last few days I go from severe crying moments, hiding myself in my bedsheet, crying, utter crying and then I go watch a tv show, I play a video game for 30 minutes and take a shower. And the 'rest' comes a bit back. However, it feels... . still feels so futile. I STILL feel, i 1) can't get better than my ex and 2) i look myself in the mirror and feel so ___ing ugly. I'm 25, I work in finance, i've had 4 serious relationships so far. So I guess purely on a social term that I'm not that 'crazy'. However, i've never felt so alone right now, I still feel, no prospect. It's sickening. I'm 25, one would say, especially my older friends who tell me, dude, I wish I could change with you ... . you have so much prospect you just don't see it yet... .

What do I need to do now?

It's april now, in July I have to hand in a research paper + do an exam and then i'm finished in Holland. I am done then. I currently live in the Northern parts of the Netherlands, I know exactly 2 friend in this area. Thats it. I am not going to stay there. I can either go back to London, i've already lived there for 4 years, however, all the things i've done there, remind me of me, yeah, misses BPD. I fear for myself going back there. Due to the triggerfest there. So what other options do I have? I work in banking meaning, either London, New York, or Asia and the latter 2 need work permits so my options are limited :'(.

Another thing is, i've been completely alone, on my room for over a week and I can tell you, that isn't helping either. Not helping at all. I go from little, very little good moments to severe depression and suicidal thoughts. Even today, I feel quite okay so far. Serious, I can say I feel 'relatively' okay right now but I know somewhere today I will feel utterly alone again and cry in a little belittling corner and wanting to end my life.

One of my biggest battles

Now I am completely alone, I ache for [url=https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation]validation (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation)[/b][/url]. Which is stupid, because I know I should matter in this world. But mentally, I ache for [url=https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation]validation (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation)[/b][/url] that I exist, that I matter in this world. When my suicidal thoughts are the biggest, are the moments I feel utterly motherless alone on this planet and then you have these weird thoughts in your head that no-one cares about you. I need social contact on a day per day basis. Which is STUPID, because when I was back in my relationship, I loved it to spend some time on my own. And of course, I know people, I know I know, thats how it goes when a relationship breaks. That's what happens. All out of a sudden you are alone and you need to buff up and take it as an adult (i sometimes feel like a 3 year old yelling for his mother) and continue with your life.

The unfortunate matter is, the moment we broke up, she left the country and I had to reside back north where I didnt know anyone plus no future prospect plus no social backup. Meaning, I went from all to nothing + in my age range people around me start with babies. All those little things add up to the major mental pain.

I don't want to ache for [url=https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation]validation (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation)[/b][/url]. I don't. I want to be able to enjoy something on my own. Seriously, that feeling you don't matter, it so hurts. It so, ~ing hurts skull splitting agony. So severe. So incredibly severe. It's so much pain, I literally wish no one this pain.

So my decision

I don't have work atm, meaning 3 months holiday. I ofc. need to study and do research but 3 months at home, will make me go crazy. I already notice that purely on the social level I feel anxiety. Anxiety like i never felt before. I think if you would test me on paranoia and social phobia I would score a 100%. My self confidence is just stripped.

I would like to speak to my ex and I need closure I don't have. I keep ~ing remember the good times. And I need to stop that. So what i'm going to do? I'm going to her place for a few days/weeks and just face the boogeyman. Meaning, booking a flight! I'll let her know if she wants to meet me or not. I don't care, if she doesn't, I have atleast an answer ... . I think the best thing I can do is check myself into a hostel and finish my memories in that place, with a GOOD one, a GOOD ending. Last time I saw her, she told me the relationship was heading in the right direction... .

I can honestly say, last week, has by far been the most agonizing mental and physical week of my LIFE. Hands down. The crying moments, for hours, in the middle of the night, on the couch, shivering due to the cold, not wanting to call friends because you don't have the fire in you to kick yourself and do something.

A friend told me and asked me, please go take a shower and check if you still have a pair of bollocks because I think they have dissapeared.

I feel scared to start with life again, rebuild life that is. F*ck this man

But i NEED TO DO SOMETHING ... . or otherwise i'm going to do stupid things. When i'm in such a suicidal moment I can't think straight. I think it's a good decision to stop with my anti depressants.

Please don't stop your anti depressants. You will feel worse because you will have a withdrawal reaction. You must not stop them cold turkey.

Please go to the ER and tell them you have been considering how to kill yourself and that you have had two attempts.

Harm

I can only repeat what Maria1 said. You need help by professionals. Not only for some hours per weak but round the clock.

Please go to a Emergency clinic for psychiatry. Please accept that you are in serious need for help.

Hi Harm   sending lots of hugs your way     and so sorry it's been such a very, very bad week.

I know you've said that there aren't mental health support facilities in the Netherlands equivalent to the ones in the US - but I bet there's the capacity in most major hospitals to provide care for people that are going through appalling times like the ones that you're experiencing right now. I agree with Maria and Surnia (of course I do ! They're both incredibly smart ! You'll have gathered that by now!). Now is the time to take yourself to a hospital and ask for that support. What does your T say about this?

It's not a good idea to try and tough this out alone - you will recover much more quickly and effectively if you get the right support as soon as possible. It's the mature, responsible and mentally healthy thing to do. And once you start to feel stronger lots of other things that you're stressing about now will start to diminish and to fall into place.

I don't think anyone would advise stopping your anti-depressants unless your GP has backed that decision up. What does your GP say about it?

Sending huge amounts of support and powerful healing prayers your way   WWT.

Just going to reiterate the others here - don't just stop taking your medication, sudden stopping can come with its own awful side effects. Clearly Paxil is not working for you. You need to go see a doctor TODAY and request a medication change. There are all kinds of anti-depressants, they work in different ways and affect people differently, so try something else - you have nothing to lose!

Don't book a plane ticket to see your ex while you're in this state. You won't be able to pull it together well enough to get what you want out of that trip AND you won't have access to your doctor while you are switching meds. You always have time to find your ex later, when you are more confident, more calm, and more steady. Take your best self down that path if need be - not your worst and most desperate. This is not really a good time to be making major decisions.

Please take care of yourself. We're here. We think you matter in this world. 

Hey harm, strength isn't the ability to get through life on your own. Strength is knowing when we need to help others and knowing when we need to ask others for help. The first part is pretty easy for most of us, feels good to help others, the second is far more difficult for me. Asking others to help.  Somehow makes me feel less of a person if I'm needing help. It takes great strength to reach out to others and say please, help me. I have nothing left to give to get me through another day. Please see someone today about the overwhelming feelings you are having. You are an important part of this world. You may hold the keys to unimaginable ideas. Some of the greatest thinkers and doers of our world suffered from crippling depression. It seems that with great ideas, great thoughts and great people come great struggles. Even if you know us only as a voice, there are many here who care, about you.

Harmkrakow, I'm so sorry you have and are feeling such deep despair.  It's a horrid, horrid feeling.  One of the things about suicidal feelings is the belief that things won't get better, and it's truly impossible to sometimes be in the depths of despair and realize that YES things WILL get better.  This belief from depression is the reason why you need professional help. 

I'm so glad you are reaching out here and baring your soul -- I agree 100% with what Maria and others here have said.  Please go seek help.  It is there for you.  Be as honest with them as you have with the forum and they will assist you.

You have so much worth as a person and have been through so much.  You are struggling mightily, and it's understandable that you have become depressed and suicidal.  I don't comment a lot, but I've read many of your posts and know that you are a good person who has been deeply wounded... .   but I've also read many stories here and know that YES, you will overcome this.  Believe it!   

We all CARE and want you to get help.  Please keep us updated.   

Hey, Harmkrakow, glad you're still checking in.

I will respond more later but want to join the chorus urging you not to quit the Paxil cold. I promise from personal experience that is one you need to wean off of gradually, with doctor's supervision. I quit taking Paxil cold turkey once and ended up 100x worse.

I think it is past time for some emergency intervention. You need some professional care right now, because you matter.


PF

P.S., I say prayers for you, too, to the same God who brought me out of all this mess.

harmkrakow,

Just wanted to say   and let you know that somebody else is watching... .   and I'm relieved every time I see you post again.

I hadn't seen you around before (My home here was on staying)... .   and I've been depressed before, but nothing like what you describe. So I wasn't quite sure what to say. You know, I'm still not quite sure what to say.

I'll just say that I care, and I do understand the feeling of not knowing what to do next. Even if I don't have much to get me out of bed some mornings... .   I know there will be other mornings I'll bounce up ready to do things I'm excited about.

If you are still going, I do recommend an USA roadtrip. I've driven cross-country before, and found some of the most amazing things in unlikely places. (I'm going to protect my anonymity on these boards and not mention anything specific... .   but PM me and I'll share some favorites.)

You do matter. 

We are all equally important, and we all have a right to be here.  I agree with others, please go to emergency room if you feel like hurting yourself.

You matter, and all of us responding are here to tell you that we are reading, reflecting and thinking of you.

So glad to read your posts and know you are still there... .  

Keep posting and please know, we are here.

C

Harmkrakow,

I hope you've gone for help, and that's why we haven't heard from you.  Sending healing thoughts and want to join others in saying we care about you!  I so hope you are getting care/treatment -- life WILL get better!  Hang in there!

ACR   

  Finally have a few minutes to log on and post some more.


These are the statements that stood out the most to me from your last post.

You are in tremendous pain. It is understandable that you would want to be soothed and comforted. It isn't wrong to want those things or to need validation from other people. It doesn't matter how old you are, we all need that.

I definitely could have used a mother when I was feeling like you (heck, I still need mothering). Unfortunately, my mother was not a safe person to turn to for help. So, I had to find other ways to meet my need for nurturing. But what about  your mother? Does she know what you are going through? Could she help you?

You matter, Harmkrakow. You deserve to be loved and consoled. You are worth taking care of.

I am concerned about your plan to go see your ex. I know you are trying to find any way possible to meet your needs, and you remember a time when she was treating you well and making you feel good. But lately, you have not felt that good after interacting with her. She has behaved abusively towards you and left you feeling even lower. I wonder if it might be a good idea to save any interactions you might try to have with her for another time when you are not so vulnerable.

You do not have to fight this battle alone. It is ok to take a break from school if you need to and finish when you are feeling better. Have you talked with any of your professional care team since your last post? Do they know about your suicide attempts?

I am always glad to see another post from you, Harmkrakow. Where have you found beauty today?

PF

! Since my last post here I did go back on my Paxil (as everyone here also said) stopping suddenly will make you feel worse as I seeked out contact with my shrink again and GP and ofc. the message was, go back, and eventually in a few days we check if we cut the dose to lower miligram and got myself another appointment, and yes, I agree, that was for the better. I do.

However, even today, and I mean that, even today, I went to severe pain yet again. It's ridiculous. You know 1) your ex has moved on 2) you also know that you are not willing to let go 3) you feel like you can't turn the tide anymore and 4) you feel immense guilt, shame and the pressure of ur friends and family on ur shoulders that u, u have failed them. U were once told to have a great career, and now people tell me, mate, ur talking about suicidal thoughts, look at how far she brought you down. You have done it to yourself!


The moment I told my 2 dearest friends about going to visit my ex they, well, how to put it politely, went out of their mind to say, well, [insert all swear words]. Big time. Why do I want to see her? She has hurt me a lot, I am not allowed to complain to her about my pain because she will tell me 1) i was the one hurting her 2) i was the one guilty 3) if i cry she feels guilty and she doesnt want 4) she complains to me about me not having empathy 5) she has no idea on a few things I know ... . what SHE has done what has hurt me. Example, few emails for example she send to a friend about me which well, wasnt very positive about me while she never told me anything about this. And I could read this mail because she gave me her username and password of her mail once to send an email to a debt collection agency to handle of a debt and ofc. after that got finished she changed the mail password.

My shrink is fully aware of my suicidal thoughts. He however, helps more more in regards of the core of my problems, rather than fixing the suicidal thoughts. I don't feel like I gain a lot of help in regards of battling my suicidal thoughts true ER/Shrink/GP/hotlines.

How would we summarize the main core of the problem?

It would be something like

1) believe that you can not get better than your ex BPD gf

2) believe that you are not worthy of getting better than  your ex BPD gf

3) believe that you are the sole responsible cause for the break up of the r/s with ur ex BPD gf

4) believe that you can not get any other happiness in regards of love ever again, as you believe, that you have given it all, the full extent, and it was not enough for a disordered person

5) That burden all together is breaking my shoulders

and also

1) you feel ashamed in regards of ur mother and very proud family

2) you feel ashamed in regards of ur friends, who told you since October, BREAK IT UP, and it only got broken to a full extent in March... .  

3) you feel ashamed of yourself, everyone told you, you were by far the most passionate guy we know in regards of ur career field and u let urself get SO SCREWED, whats wrong with u?

4) you feel ashamed because you feel like you failed from the expectations others had from you ... .

5) That burden all together is breaking my shoulders

Plus... .

1) I don't enjoy anything at the moment. I don't enjoy the sun, I don't enjoy running, I don't enjoy or feel satisfaction out of anything. It's seriously hard like crazy to get through a day when every activity you try, feels like one to many.

All together, it feels like I can't turn the tide. I can't. And the core of the problem is relatively simply pointed towards my FOO, as I come from a proud family, meaning, the sense of having failed them and others, acts like such a pressure on ur shoulders. Failure is not really accepted.  And ... . my mother is physically and mentally disabled, and lives in a psychiatric institute. She has the IQ and EQ of someone of 15 years old. Meaning, she can be talked to, she can understand, her memory is poor, but she can be naughty as everyone was during their puberty. When I first introduced my ex BPD gf to my mother, I waited with it so long, because well, considering her circumstance it was a huge move. 4 weeks later the hatred phase started in our BPD r/s. I had to tell my mother the news. You know what happened? I wasn't able to. I yet to this day have to tell her the news. I went there on my own, wanted to tell her and ended up in a normal day conversation about something little as ofc. she is very emotional and I just couldnt break the news to her.

I left the institute and the moment I was in the alleyway/corridoor towards the exit, I collapsed and started crying, the nurses were all like, WOW, whats going ON HERE?. First a lot of appraisal, as my mother has been in this institute for like 20 years and considering  im 25, and considering I visit her on my own in a strong closed of psychiatric institute they were very proud of me, on the other hand, they understood my problem. I wanted my mother to be proud of me of me getting married. And now I showed my crazy (then soon to be) ex to her? I felt so much guilt it was beyond me. All I wanted was to make my mother proud of me, and due to unfortunate illness, I always tried for years and years with SO much pre-caution as i've been in other r/s before even longer ones than the one I had with my ex and those I never introduced to my mother. My ex told me, she'll understand. You'll be strong enough. The walk back from the mental institute towards the trainstation and towards home was a hell of a walk, I was crying constantly on the phone to one of my best friends which I literally (!) called out of the blue.

So, breaking down my current issues is 1) my ex and 2) the pressure I feel of having failed and not being able to turn the tide. My ex, I can delete, hold on, no ... . I should delete her from my life completely. Completely. She has been nothing but bad news and she needs to be gone. I need to cut her off my linkedin and facebook and block her on my phone and mail and literally cut of all the mutual friends we have. She is nothing else but a cancerous growth which blocks any progress and every week when u have contact and let her talk you down you are back at level zero. She was the one initiating the hatred phase and the devaluation and literally paint me dead black. However, as 1 of my friends told me. You dear Harm, you have still the final pawn in ur hand to finish this. If u kick her off FB, Linkedin, block her mail and phone, U are the one in control and you are the one sealing the deal, NOT her. Meaning... . TAKE CONTROL Harm, stand up for yourself.

For the pressure in regards of my family and friends, I yet have to find a reasonable solution. It hurts, a lot, and i've lost a few friends over this however some the bond maintained.


Well, i've had talks with my T about this. We in the Netherlands do not have these sort of resorts like the US. We don't. So, we look at other options. We do however have psychiatric care, but as spoken to with help that would not be fitting for me. Why? Well, although I might seem to be a danger to myself, I am not a danger to others and psychiatric institutionalization is more for people who are, and I know this sounds weird, really mentally sick as close to a danger to the society and not just(!) to themselves. I am not a danger to others. Far from. There are no suicide-care centres in hospitals, rather than just a 'pat on the shoulder and talk' don't do it and go talk to a psychologist and some medication to lower the anxiety/depression. My shrink also doesnt want me, nor my GP, to go for group therapy as, although they both say that well, Harm, harm has sunk beyond the bottom of the deepest Ocean, my progress level and the way I develop is relatively different than others. And if being put in a group therapy, I would likely progress quicker than others, also due to my analytically behavior. That however does not need to say that I will be 'cured' quicker than others, as I've sunk far deeper than many expected.

Of course, you (with friends and shrink) try to find issues, is there something wrong with you, is there something back from the past which might now come to light? Have you been bullied? Was this your first girlfriend? I never been bullied. I've actually hit the most popular girl back in primary school. I'm 25 with over 6 years of r/s experience. Actually, my last 2 exes, yes yes, are in my group of best friends! My last ex-gf even told me, if I didn't treat her so well during our r/s, she would not have anything to do with me anymore, but i've always treated her well and now she is one of my best friends (the ones you can call 24/7 if needed). I went from a rural area in the Netherlands on my own to 'big and scary' London. I actually read (in tears lol) today my diary of my first Months in London. The passion, the wantingness to succeed, to pass my exams, to pass and be someone was immaculate! It was extraordinary. Now? Now when I look back at it? Man ... . I feel like it was 20 years ago and it's completely out of reach. I feel I have to start all over again and no people, I don't feel like I have the energy for it anymore.

You know, today. I woke up around 9.00 AM in the morning, and I take my sleeping medication to sleep myself 'through' the day as my worst period throughout the day is often afternoon. I again, I ended up crying SO bad, and literally with such a passionate death wish that you really sit on the floor, in a cat position, you cry, for a long time. And then you wonder. You seriously wonder people, you wonder, is this, is this really what I want? Or is this a pure help for cry? Or is this me really wanting to end the pain? You try to differentiate the feeling of 'cry for help' and 'really wanting to die'. And I realized, I really realized that I wanted the latter. Because you also have a lot of people who try and try and complain constantly and don't seem to move on. Drowning in self-pity, depression for years. Me? I am not going to be that way. It's either the high way or my way. I am not going to do this for a lot of weeks extra. I simply can't. The shame, the guilt, it's simply to much. I ofc. will give myself time, thats what i'm doing right now. The biggest problem, even right now, as of this instant. Is that I can't feel like I can't turn the tide anymore. That is what is worrying me. I feel, I seriously feel I can't turn the tide anymore. And, I seriously realize that when I'm on my own and I have such a crying phase, btw, it's seriously weird, you basically prepare food in the kitchen with tears flying from ur eyes. Ur a grown man, and u lay on the floor of the living room in the middle of the afternoon crying. Crying ... . just crying, shivering. And this thought in ur head, literally shouting it out, GO. Away ... . I need to cut of that brain part which reminds me of all the good times of my ex and that I need her in my life to be happy. Because I dont(!). However, after months and months INTO the hatred phase of my ex BPD gf, I realized I made myself codependent on her and ofc, the moment U realize that and in talks with ur shrink, it's quite tricky to get out of it.

I will later on, just post the entire story of myself so people here, with their experience, have an idea, fully that is, who they are talking to and what i'm dealing with. As although i'm following help with a shrink and GP, I feel it's not entirely enough. It's one of the reasons I vent here ofc.

And yes, I seriously try to fix myself, I do. But my goodness it's hard, i've had moments today, again, where I was sure, mate, what the heck do you do it for? PULL THE PLUG. But ... . wherever I have the chance to socialize I do, a friend of mine basically invited himself to my place yesterday to watch a football match and talk about life. That felt nice :). And I did go back on the Paxil and I use my sleep medication to hang on in regards of rest.

Seriously people, the feeling in your head, that you are certain, the pain is enough. IT IS ENOUGH. It's so weird. I've never experienced something like this ever before. It's SO skull splitting. I've had mental and physical pain before but that is not even 1/100000th of what i'm enduring right now, and thats not even an understatement. You literally, SHOUT it out of the pain. Seriously, you SHOUT it out. It's been SUCH a toxic r/s, with months of bashing and painting black and being painted black as the worst person on the world and with sentences like how can you live with yourself looking in the mirror, the pressure just broke my shoulders. And yes, you cry, you cry endlessly, and ofc. after that you feel a little better, fortunately for me I get some sort of contact from the outside world (a text, a mail, a fb line, something, it can be something SO little) and ur mind is switched for a bit, u feel its getting evening again, meaning checking the forum, check the mail, check the food, check if there is something on TV.


I have found my beauty today in a simple email from a company who were asking me if I had interest to work for them. They told me, my CV and their company was a blistering fit and were asking me, which roles would be of your interest? That little sense of validation is going to make me at least fall asleep with the thought hey, today is not the day to finish.

I thank you all for your posts and replies. They matter a great lot to me. I mean that. I am 100% sure you guys have no idea, how much it means, even such a little thing as an reply.

I know, I know that every day is still a struggle, and please people, do realize, I try to fight. I try to keep fighting and yes, almost every day I feel like giving up, and yes, I do go to shrink, call, GP, but the help for these cases in our country is just a bit different. I'm for now back on Paxil and have temazepam for sleeping medication. Other than that, I use a bit of a drink to make me tipsy (i dont like drinking... . I really don't but I know the effect of it on the nervous system, they calm down the muscles, lower your blood rate, it's horrendous for a LONG sleep but it's okay for falling asleep) as i can't use the temazepam every day as benzo's are highly addictive.

I just sometimes wish I could either turn back time (i've lost 2 precious years with this girl ... . and well, hopefully not a scar for life) and wish I was just a simple carpenter or something. I don't mean this negative, seriously, I don't. But well, I do have an overactive mind as due to the fact that I study quantitative studies on a high level you have the unfortunate nature to check, analyze, and double-check stuff.

It's 1.11 AM now where I am, time for bed.

Thanks buddies! :)

Glad you're still checking in.

You know I really do understand how hard it is. I am really impressed how hard you are working to survive. You probably don't know how strong you are because you feel so worn down. But you are doing a good job.

I can respond more to these posts tomorrow. I just want to say that feelings are just feelings... .   they are neither right nor wrong. It is ok to feel them.

The email about a new job sounds encouraging.    :)  I would love to see how that works out. Is it somewhere you would like to work?

Talk to you more tomorrow.

PF

Hi Harm.

Well done on getting that job offer - that's tremendous. Congratulations to you.  |iiii

I wanted to say that I bet you really need not worry at all about your professional future - because you sound like someone who has the ability to do very well - and this confirms it. It doesn't mean you have to be in a major hurry to jump back into the 'rat race' again though - you can afford to take time now to look after yourself for a while and build up your emotional strength. That will mean that all aspects of your life - work, social life, family etc can be better in the future.

Yes - I see what you mean about what's available to you in the Netherlands in terms of emergency psychiatric support. I'm in the UK and it's very similar here. But I'm wondering if there are other ways of increasing the assistance you're getting right now?

How often do you see your T? I know you can call him whenever you want - that's good - but do you have two or three sessions a week? I hope so because I think that one session might not feel like enough. Is it possible to get some more sessions with him on a regular, weekly basis? I know from my own experience that you make faster and more effective progress if you get the maximum amount of support available as soon as possible - and put as much structure in place in your life as you can.

I like the sound of this friend... .  


You obviously have some very caring friends who want to do all they can to help you Harm.

I also wanted to say - hard as it is - try not to be surprised and worried about this... .  


If you've read much on these boards you'll know that - unfortunately - this isn't that uncommon in the wake of a toxic relationship.  My experience was a little different from yours - but I went into a kind of shock for several weeks - lots of shivering - and actually I couldn't cry for a very long time - I wished that I could! So - hard and horrible as this is - please try and remember - this is normal - it's not a sign that you are in a uniquely impossible situation that's going to feel this awful for years -  you're simply in the middle of a crisis that has to be got through.


In the same way - sadly - this too is very normal... .  



It's simply what happens when you're depressed. It won't last forever. And the best thing to do right now - in my experience - is to say 'OK - life is going to look strange, colourless and a bit bleak for a while... .   it doesn't mean it really is that way... .   but I must just accept that this is how it feels for now and be patient that it will start to brighten up again before too long and be gentle with myself until that happens'.

I'm so sorry to hear that your Mum has her own problems to deal with. It's clear how much care and concern you have for her.


My question would be - 'What makes you believe that your mother isn't very proud of you already?'. You seem to behave like a wonderful son - visiting her regularly under very difficult circumstances. You sound like an incredibly caring and hard working person. What's not to be proud of?

You haven't failed at all Harm. That's clear. We all make mistakes in life, or follow paths that turn out to be the wrong ones  - that's normal. And some of these mistakes are really hard to get over - but they all offer us a chance to learn - to get wiser and stronger. We really wouldn't be properly alive if we didn't have these experiences. You might find that your friends and family are more forgiving and understanding of what you perceive of as 'failure' than you think. And if they're not then I think it may be your role to start spreading this message of emotional strength and maturity amongst them.

I spent a lot of my life over-working because I'd grown up with a very strong wish to please my father (an immensely warm, loving man with an overdeveloped work ethic of his own). It's taken me a long time to understand that he only ever wanted the best for me - but that no-one is perfect - so sometimes his messages to me were counter productive. We have to learn to pick and chose from amongst the legacy that our FOO leaves us - there will hopefully be beautiful things to treasure in amongst it all but also some things to gently but firmly reject.

I'm so sorry this is such a tough time Harm. But please remember - it's very normal to feel as you do in the circumstances. And these are not feelings that will last forever. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Sending hugs   WWT.

Some sayings that have helped me along the way:  Take it a day at a time, or a minute at a time if need be.  Bring the body, and the mind and heart will follow.  In other words, just keep going through the motions.  You probably feel like you are just pretending or acting a lot of the time, but that's ok.  This too shall pass.  Eventually, the heart and mind will catch up, and you'll say, Wow! Where have you guys been?  I've missed you.  Hang in there.

I think this is a wise statement from Whatwasthat. It certainly feels overwhelmingly endless when you're going through it, but it does pass.

I'm sorry your mother is unable to meet your needs. I know what that is like. I have had to find ways to mother myself. There are literally times when I have taken my coziest blanket, wrapped it around myself like a hug, laid in my bed and stroked my own head while I said comforting things to myself through my tears. And it helps. Sometimes I have to mentally go back in time and comfort Little PF, who was so lost and confused and afraid. She needed a mother but didn't have one, and so now I look after her.

Since the dark times, I have also found comfort in the Mother of God (Mary). Not everyone shares my beliefs, and there was a time when I would have been very suspicious of this suggestion, but for me it has been a great blessing that she has come into my life. She is the very best mother and it helps me to have someone to turn to when I need to cry and feel protected.  For what it's worth, when I walk into my church, I light a candle for you while I ask her to help you. This is what I do for all the other lost children.

It sounds like you have a couple of friends who really care about you. That is helpful, too. Having someone who will just sit with you and keep you company. I am thankful for my friend who did that for me.

You describe as the core of your problem a system of beliefs that is causing you shame and "breaking your shoulders." So, can you see that the distress is coming from those beliefs, and not from who you are? What if you take each of those 8 statements and told yourself something kind and positive instead? You deserve to be loved and to be treated with kindness--and you can start by deciding you are going to be kind to yourself.

You are valuable just as you are. You do not have to achieve or perform to deserve love.

We here care about you very much.

Looking forward to hearing where you found beauty today.

 

PF

hey Harm!

so sorry to hear what you've been through & are currently going through.

im just commenting to let you know my thoughts are with you at this particular time in your life. although weve never met, i feel connected to you - as i do all the guys on this board - because weve all been through very similar experiences. when i think back to how depressed i was 11 months ago i honestly thought at that time i would never get through it! my uexBPD (w/NPD traits)gf left me heartbroken & completely devastated! i didnt eat a proper meal for 10 weeks and i was sleeping 2-3hours a day. i was so depressed.

I couldnt have loved her more!

Each day that went by i told myself that it would keep getting that tiny bit easier. baby steps so to speak. at the time it didnt feel like it was getting easier and naturally it takes some a while to get your head round the shock & confusion these r/s' bring with them.

BUT my friend, it DOES get easier.

Now im not the most mentally toughest of cookies. I take rejection terribly and i dont handle stress very well at all. But Harm, i got through it. 11 months ago i was where you are now buddy but 3 weeks ago i went out on a date with a girl ive been working with recently and since then weve been out 5 more times. Now Im not gonna make out that i foresee wedding bells or anything but what i do know is that im as happy as iv EVER been in my life and like ive stated twice already in this post... .   11 months ago Harm, i was in exactly the same boat that you are in right now. Life is worth fighting for mate!

Nowadays my crazy ex is nothing more than distant memory. And thats the way i'd like to keep it. Educating myself on BPD (w/NPD traits) and also going no contact were both paramount in my recovery.

Take care of yourself Harm and please listen to the brilliant advise you're being given here by others. Be strong   x 

Harm, please, please do not ever make that decision to end your life!  We are real people out here and we are worried about you.  Pain has to be passed through.  Your work kept you busy, but you didn't heal.  I am so sorry that this woman, who you care so much about, is unable to have the life she and you want.  It is a terrible thing to see someone deny themselves the very thing that would heal them.  It is NOT your fault.  She is upset because she knows she hurt you, and you are a good man, and she cannot fix it.  Sometimes life is like that.  A season of sadness and pain.

However, spring does come, with all of its promise and joy.  You must wait for it.

to answer your questions:


What pushes me out of bed in the morning?  Hope.  My children.  Life.  The alarm clock.  My dear Savior, who has redeemed me.

What drives me to pursue my activities?  A desire to give something good to a world where there is so much darkness and pain, to help others.

What do I live for?  If only you knew my Jesus, you would not need to ask.

The problem is not where you are, the problem is a broken heart.  Can you die from a broken heart?  It feels like it, but I have not.

You would not believe how very much I would like to see you and give you a hug and tell you, "Just keep breathing.  Keep moving forward.  There is hope in life, and who knows what new and surprising thing might happen if you don't give up."   

Been there, felt that, shivering through the night, crying endlessly in disbelief that I could cry so much, that I felt so miserable... .   thinking to myself, get a grip without knowing what the grip would be.

I practiced something that helped a little, gave me momentary reprieve while riding the storm of agony. I would touch the part of me that really hurt, say for instance my chest. I would then close my eyes and say out loud,

"Right now, my heart hurts, it is hurting because I (fill in the feeling), I don't recall ever hurting this much before and I accept that right now, I will hurt like this, I accept my pain. I also affirm that in time, I will feel better, I accept that this pain will pass but for right now I honor my pain, my loss, and also honor that eventually, I will heal".

You know, it sounds simple but those moments were a short reprieve and helped me accept my pain... . and the eventual healing that would come. I learned to believe in the process of personal growth and even though I couldn't imagine that the pain would ever end... . I accepted that in time, it would.

Right now your thoughts, memories, feelings, and emotions are like a 52 card pick up... .   all the cards have been tossed and you are putting them into place.

Coming out of a toxic relationship is devastatingly painful because of all the reasons you mention and you know, it is your journey, no matter how much friends might have warned you, YOU had to go through this because you loved your former s/o and you needed to go through the relationship.

Of course you will blame yourself and feel guilty, with time and retrospect you will come to understand that you did the best you could with the given circumstances. You will learn to forgive yourself any mistakes you believe you made and you will come out of this stronger and wiser.

Happy to read about the job offer... .   and happy to read  you are with us.   

Hang in there

C

First of all, i've been emailing back and forth with this potential employer yesterday and I already noticed heart 'bumps' as in, uh-oh, i'm not sure if my body from a physical and mental point of view is 'ready' to jump back into work. I did deliberately quit work just 2 weeks ago although the last 2 weeks have been utter hell and nothing else with 2 nights me leaving a suicide note. It's crazy when I think about it, because I even have to admit, today, I woke up at 7AM, and couldn't fall asleep anymore. Felt like my heart was pounding out of my chest and basically have been crying till 1AM in my bed, just holding the bed sheets, and going left and forth and back and right. Hoping for it to stop. And ofc, again, these sentences in your head; I want to die, I want gone, I want out, I don't want to live with this pain anymore, I'm not good enough for anyone and I just feel so lonely. And, I mean, i keep the lights out. I just close myself of. I notice i'm shyer than ever (i'm an extravert person) and when I go to the supermarket, I feel being looked at, I feel disgust with myself.


Not enough. I don't have 2/3 sessions a week. I have like one every 2/3 week and I can call a hotline to sort of go for a 'emergency' meeting, but unfortunately I can't do that all the time. Meaning, when i'm at my ends rope, between 08-17.00 I can call and the assistant can check if there is half an hour or hour free and put me in.


Thanks for acknowledging the 'normal'. Because frankly, I feel all beyond normal. I mean, like I said before, serious, when you are in such a crying phase, and you try to think as conscious as you can about this death wish of mine. I realize, I seriously I realize, I want to be dead. It's not some, oh, like 'thinking about how would it be to jump or take pills' and be gone ... . no, no like, really no. When you have the utter moments of despair, you really, desperately, want death. You want to dissolve, and the pain, I keep repeating it and have to until it goes away, the pain, also this morning, SO much pain, I shout it out. And you find yourself in the midst of the path between bed and shower. Crying, shouting, not wanting to call people because, well, everyone dear to you already knows about the issues, and well, i'm scared when I repeat it to often, my dearest friends, and I seriously just barely have a handful, might leave me. 

We met in London, we lived together for a year in the Netherlands and the moment she went back to Poland it went downhill between the two of us, I supported her the entire time in Holland, as I do speak the language, just, be there for her, 24/7 and now she does that with someone else. And, ... . I still want to BE with this abuser, I want to be with her, love her, help her, make love with her. Seriously whatwhasthat, I still want to be with her, and then I think (with my shrink) I mean, MAN OH MAN, I made myself co-dependent on her. Atm my hapiness, joy, depends from her actions and as she keeps to continue to treat me like sh!twater, this is a one way streak to hell. And the co-dependency issues, I only noticed that, MONTHS IN the hatred phase. During the idealization phase I never had this feeling of being clingy to her or that my happiness depended on her, I noticed that I couldn't be happy anymore 2 months or so in the hatred phase where she painted me black and white every day or so.

Meaning, as of this point in time, I ... . STUPIDLY(!) believe, that, I ... .   that I can not be happy or ever find love and such an attractive woman like this, ever again. And seriously, whatwasthat, i've had more relationships than this one, and believe it or not, they are my good friends(!) They actually try to HELP me, in order to get rid of this cancerous growth. They are exes, and in both cases, I split up with them, but because of the good connection and realization that friends worked better as a couple, I still talk to them, atleast weekly!

My EX BPD, will be the very, very, very ... .   VERY first person EVER, in my LIFE, which I would completely cut off. I never, ever have cut off anyone in my life. Never. I always give someone, a third chance, a fourth chance, a 100th chance. I believe in the goodness of people. I do. And my goodness, she stole this away from me. I puke every day a few times. Ridiculous! All for this Polish girl ... . I can not get my head around it.


It's amazing how much strength a person can have. Crying, for hours, not being able to sleep, feel completely utterly alone in the world and you walk around in the house thinking, should I go to the tracks? Should I take my sleeping pills and an overdose? And you end up crying again and hours later you wake up and another day has passed. I'm still here ... . Im STILL here... . that for me, already feels remarkably because sometimes I just walk through the house shouting, I want out. But ... . i'm still here, as said, today I actually felt guilty for having suicidal thoughts because I might hurt a few people.

You know, when I go outside, and I see a couple, a young couple with a baby, it feels like heaving a heart attach and migraine at the same time. When I see happiness, I feel jealous, because it's been a while since I laughed. You wonder, can I listen to music? I can't STAND to listen to music. Listening to a song on youtube or listening to music. Any kind, ANY KIND is so ~ing agony because ofc. it triggers me of a thought of my ex just partying like 24/7 

It feels like so much unfairness, me crying in bed for hours, contemplating suicide, while my ex works and parties, works and parties, works and parties... .   and all in my face. I NEED TO LET HER GO.


:) Well, I have a proud family which always have been telling me, visit her more often, visit her more often. When she is not here anymore, you will feel guilty that you aren't visiting her. Because i've lived in London for 4 years, I couldn't visit her every week, however, when I went back, I ofc. did visit her. I've basically been told my entire life, to constantly visit my mother.

Just to come back to another problem. I still let my life circle around my ex BPD who is partying all day every day, smoking, drinking, having fun, and well, one day she tells me she is happy and the other she tells me i've really hurt her. Whatwhasthat, ... . she will, she really will be the very first person I cut out of my life. And this ... . my goodness, this is the person a few months who wanted to marry me, have kids with me, and already wore my surname as 'joke'. I mean, this would be the very last person I would expect to cut out of my life.

I need to start doing something else, because this is not going anywhere... .  

You know, in a way, I feel jealous of you, and from most religious people. I've been raised as a very strong conservative christian so what did I do when I hit puberty? I went against it. I was not allowed to watch TV on sunday, I had to go to church twice on Sunday, I was not allowed to make homework on sunday. I was not allowed to 'have a nap' when I wanted. I had to socialize during church times. I felt chained. And the fact you light a candle for me, in church, well, that touches me :). I mean, like I said, when I have suicidal contemplations, and I have them every day unfortunately, that little itty bitty feeling of guilt, as that you might hurt someone, also helps. It helps, serious, it helps. And for some reason, i'm still here! And truth be told, I wasn't expecting that.


I keep telling myself, that, these friends accept me for who I am, and although I only have a handful of friends, these have been my friends in moments of despair and greatness the last 10 years. Because ofc. after this horrible period with my ex, who blatantly constantly pointed the finger towards me and yelling; YOU ARE CRAZY, what's wrong with you? Why do you like me? I'm a btch, I treat you bad etc. I live in 'koo-koo' world, Harm your delusional ... . Harm, you will never be a good husband nor a good father. Serious, i've heard these things, day by day, month after month, and I was STUPID enough, to let it hit me. (Which is the reason why i'm completely drained of energy and everything and i hit rock bottom). Did I ever, EVER rage back at her? Never! I never raged back at her. Never, ever. And the one time, the one time I said a sentence after we already broke up; 'You are not worthy crying for' she became UTTERLY defensive. And made a scene about it. And what did Harm do? Guess... .   HE TOOK IT BACK AND APOLOGIZED!

My goodness PF, I allowed this abuse for months and months to happen.  :'(


Something positive? I've had a literally dozens of interviews where people often asked me. How do your friends describe you?

Busy, outgoing, extravert, doesn't stop talking, always helpful, always available, clever.

Now? I literally don't do anything besides reading something on the internet. I do talk here a lot, but besides a few friend talks on facebook or phonecalls, I don't talk a lot. I've had days where i haven't physically(!) talked to anyone. Those are the horror ones. Clever? Do I think i'm clever at the moment? My goodness, I literally feel like the stupidest person in the world. I literally feel dumb. Like, DUMB.

And my goodness, I feel guilty for wanting to die. Why? How about all those people who actually live on the street and wish for a better chance in life? People who are terminally ill and pray for another day? And here I am, a 25 year old post-grad student with years of work experience who is contemplating, well, I can't turn the tide anymore lads. I want to pull the plug. I mean, average age is what, 70? With a bit of luck i have another 45 years going. I would not even be half way, and I would let my end ... . be decided on a 'TOXIC' r/s gone completely wrong. And ... . ABOVE ALL ... . i know all this ... . i am aware of all this ... . but still ... .

Still this morning when I woke up, 7 in the morning. Looked around. Had no idea what the fudge I would do today and within a few minutes when I went online I started crying again, I wanted to shower and realized I was shivering so much. And just went on my knees again and thought. People ... . no ... . I can't continue with this. And you yet again lie on the floor, yelling out, crying out. That **** need to get out my head.

My self confidence is SO low. SO incredibly low. I feel I can't do ANYTHING right. Like my shrink said. Due to the hatred phase of the borderline relationship (of which I was unfortunately told, 'this was one by the book!' ... . I basically let her 'eat me alive' until I had NOTHING to give.

I feel so utterly ... . utterly empty. I don't know what to do with life man. Here I am, in rural Holland, far away from people and no kinship with anyone here. I got 2 friends on 'car driving' distance, the ones who invite themselves to my place.

Thank you people. Serious. Whatever happens, this 'journey' here, has been part of my life. I would have had no idea what I would have done without these forums and reading workshops.

Other than that people, I was wondering if you could comment on these plans.

As I currently have zill/nothing planned until first week of July. Living as monk in my bedroom 24/7 is clearly not the solution. I don't have the guts to go outside around here because it reminds me to much of my ex. Basically everything either in the total of the Netherlands or London reminds me of her., I close the curtains and well, I clean the kitchen, bathroom and my bed constantly because crying is not good for my stomach meaning everything goes out.

I ... . I need to do something. I unfortunately don't have frequent therapist meetings every week.

I, and this might sound crazy, am contemplating to go to Poland and do some couch surfing there and visit some old places with 'memories'.

The reason why, is because I sometimes need to bash through a wall in order to get through it. For example, I lived in a hostel in London, just to be 'under' the people. Why? Well, sometimes you need to get 'among' people in order to get that spark in your head.

However on the other hand, considering the utter weak state of mind and my ~load of suicidal contemplations, if, and if I break down, crash down, completely mentally. Well, taking your live in such a deprived poor city as Krakow is a little bit easier than where I currently am in upper north holland. However, I would like to meet new people. Or ... . better to say, I would like to get the acknowledgement, that I can still meet people, that others enjoy my company and judge me based on who I am, and accept who I am. I don't know if this is a good choice, however, I do feel an urge to do it. Plus, if I meet someone there for a good chat, it's without expectations. If I do it here, and I get rejected, it means I might have lost a possible friend close to where I live right now. As I will go back to the Netherlands (as my therapy continues) a rejection in a foreign country is a bit easier to deal with ... . i guess.

Besides, it was the last place where I saw her, and the last time she told me, 'our r/s is heading in the right direction'.  lol :'(

Is this a clever way to deal with the grieving? The letting go? Because I feel personally some methods, for example my father who tells me, continue with ur life, why do you still mourn about her? (meaning ducking your head in the sand) isn't really helping. Plus ... . i fear for a ENORMOUS slap in 4/5/6/7 years time if I would be still alive that it will come back an haunt me. That, that I don't want of course :).

Which would mean, leaving on Sunday out of the Netherlands. And me actually stating that, is already pointing a interesting direction, as I wasn't really contemplating 24h ago, to be of existence on Sunday.

Other than that.

My looney ex BPD invited herself to my presentation of my research paper in July. My family will be there, I will have a friend there. They all know the story I 1) now am going through and 2) she will be there. A big fat uh-oh is in place there... .

How do you guys deal with the fact that you miss the drama of a BPD r/s? Because I do miss the drama, which is stupid. But I do miss it. I mean, I don't do anything. I mean I watch something, a movie, a tv-show and I basically end up crying in 20/30 or sometimes 40 minutes. Then I lay down my laptop again, and try to sleep a bit and watch something again.

harm,

I am glad you are posting again. 

Why not travelling a bit? I do agree with you, sitting alone at home the whole day is a hard way. Poland is not too far, so just in case you can go back when ever you need it. A win win situation... .    

I think a bit of travel might be a good idea. But try to visit some new places - as well as ones with old memories. Just making a 'trip down memory lane' might not be the best idea.

Is there any way you can get more regular sessions scheduled with your therapist? Have you asked if this is possible?

WWT 

I did ask my current shrink. Unfortunately, he's getting more and more booked at the moment. Meaning, the time's between consult is increasing slightly. The only option he suggested is going for another intake process with another shrink, where he would be willing to share documents and medication files. However, my current shrink is on 3 minute walking distance from my house.

OK - this is a difficult decision to make. Because ideally I do think you need a T  you can see 2 or 3 times a week - so maybe a change is appropriate.

Personally I wouldn't be influenced by the fact that the current T is very close to your house - unless any alternative therapists were a long way away - I don't think I would find that to be the most important factor. I would be more influenced by the fact that presumably you've built up a good relationship with your current T and it would be a shock to leave him.

Would it be possible to have two Ts for a while? A new one who you could see at least twice a week from the very beginning - while you gradually phased out sessions with your existing T? I wonder if that would be possible? It might make the transition feel more safe and secure for you. But please do get the advice of both your T  and GP on this.

WWT.  

Hello Harm,

I'm so sorry that your christian experiences were so legalistic and negative.  No wonder you have such difficulty in feeling loved.  I think a trip might be a very good thing for you.  How about something quite new, like France or Italy?  A tourist place, where there are lots of people having a new and exciting experience.  Somewhere with interesting things to look at and learn about, maybe somewhere sunny?  Sunshine lifts the spirits.  Please keep posting so that we know you are with us.  

I agree on the necessary need of more T-visits. I really do. I can get another shrink, next to mine, no problem, however waiting lists are just long, and there just simply isn't anything around where I could have more visits than once a week . I already registered for a online consult shrink (it IS a registred shrink) and i'm looking for shrink possibilities with sooner possibilities for rehabilitation. In our country we have first/second line medical help and the current shrink i'm visiting, is already first line help! Can you imagine what second line would be in regards of waiting time.

And yes, i'm working on getting rid of my co-dependency issues with my ex, my FOO, my own self-confidence, my suicidal thoughts. However, the pace is just going slowly and i'm working on all of it, just a bit time by time and as you can read from my posts here. It isn't going quickly enough. My shrink realizes that and thats purely why I have the hotline option. But that's purely for emergency options.

I also have to admit, i'm ~ scared to travel (i'd love to travel before this). I mean, in the supermarket, I already have issues facing the cashier! I see couples with young kids and I feel like ... . I needed washing power? Screw the washing power ... . LETS GO HOME!

Now atleast I am in a place which I know ... . 'other' contact is something i'm sincerely afraid of. Again, I seriously see it a pure self-preservation method because i'm slowly sinking here. I purely do this because i'm afraid I might do something stupid here if I maintain here another 3 fraggin months.  :'( So what am I afraid of, purely the rejection. My ex told me i'm the worst walking here, and well, not worth jack sh!t. Going to a hostel, and not being able to blend in with others and just stay on my room on my own, well, that won't be better than staying here on my own.

But this ... . me staying at home? ... . this isn't helping either.

I will definitely keep this place as a lifeline when I'm going on travel.

 Harm

It's good to know that you're on the waiting list for extra T sessions. You've done an impressive job of looking for all the help that's available and putting yourself in line to receive it.

I think it'll make a big difference once those extra sessions start.

It's hard to know if some travelling is the best idea or not. In my experience nowhere felt right for a long time - neither home or elsewhere. But it did help me to at least see different faces and landscapes - and to visit friends. So a short trip would probably be fine. But I would emphasise SHORT. Because the priority has to be to keep within reach of your GP right now so that they can monitor your anti-depressants - decide if they're going to reduce the Paxil or switch you onto new medication. It wouldn't seem like a great idea to be too far away from home while that's going on.

Are there some short weekend or 3-4 day trips that you could do?

And please respect your own vulnerability at the moment. It's natural to feel a bit agoraphobic when you've been through an experience like this (that feeling you describe in the supermarket is a good illustration of that). Try not to expect too much of yourself. It's good to go out and about and see new things - but don't be surprised if you feel fragile as you do it - that's OK.

In fact that would be my big message right now Harm. I know this doesn't feel OK - but actually it's all very normal and to be expected in the circumstances. You're going through a very unpleasant emotional experience that many on these boards have navigated. Look on it as a very rough sea voyage. It feels appalling - but there is firm land to look forward to at the end of the journey.

You're doing very well - it may not feel like it - but you are. WWT.   

I really hope so


U are so right, I just headed back to bed. I was feeling relatively okay for a few hours, thinking about the possibility of a trip. I go back to bed, I end up crying again. It's friday evening, my ex is partying probably till saturday afternoon (itll all be over facebook) and having fun and me, me is sitting here in his bed all alone crying yet again. It feels so unfair. It's definitely two different ways of grieving. But goodness, I was hoping not to feel any suicidal contemplations anymore at least till tmorrow but I hit my bed and it sunk in again. what the heck am I doing it for, and u wrote it so nicely, nowhere felt right for a long time. It doesn't. It seriously doesn't.

I'm so fragile

If I ever get out of this, also what I told my shrink, we are going to fortify that door with iron, steel, bricks, glue, everything. This door of pain will never get opened like this again. I definitely can't face this level of pain ever again. Never.


Thanks :) it definitely doesn't always feel like. But hey I keep trying. I think my aim would be to start more therapy in order to decrease the suicidal tendencies. If that can decrease, in whatever way possible, it be what I need.

Harm, it broke my heart to read this from you:


She had no right to run you down so much.  No one here is rejecting you, and we are real people.  You can rationalize that away, but the reality is, we know you better than people in the store do, and we are sincerely worried about you and are very much wanting you to recover from this!  Maybe you need to come to America for a trip.  Right now, at least, you can get in to see a Therapist right away... .   you just pay cash.

America?  America?  That would mean sitting on a plane... .   yes, I know you are not feeling ready for that yet.  I really wish you the best.  Please keep posting.

Thanks my dear. After feeling okay for a few hours in the afternoon, 'thinking about' going for a trip, and looking it up. It actually made me feel good. Then I went to bed and i've been lying in bed for the last 4 hours not being able to fall asleep (It,s 2.37 AM where I live) and then emotions kick in again and all the screwed up thoughts again hit your head. End it... . End it ... . GO AWAY.

Seriously, if, and IF i get out of this mess, I wouldn't mind thinking about some sort of BPD awareness center in Europe. The pain caused by this illness to loved ones is ridiculous. Through a dutch online forum i've met a guy who actually went through 3(!) BPD r/s break ups and is now utterly broken. Through a centralized point, help would be guided so much better and more efficient. I've spent a long time last hour in bed just reading through topics here and the familiarity is just crazy. It's crazy. It's like you see your own life rewritten so many times by other people who witnessed it in a different country, maybe in a different language, but same actions and pain.

I just took my benzo pill to sleep again (I don't want to take to many as they are addictive) and hopefully I will fall asleep. Life shouldn't be a struggle this way. What is there to become of me? I'm 25 and I can't even picture myself as a 40 year old with a few kids living happily. Heck, I can't even picture myself in 3 months time(!) 

Bless you all people. I hate life : (

Sweet drams, dear young man.  Only 25?  It is way too early to throw in the towel!  A center for BPD awareness and healing is a great idea!  I bet it would help a great many people.

It is very strange that all of the stories are so alike.  I always thought of people as being like snowflakes - each one different.  In these relationships, they are so similar.  It is a puzzle, isn't it?

  :'(

Ive been awake since 4am and reading this board for the last 2 hours. Its now past 6am and I can already hear the birds yelping, squerping, whatever that high pitchy sound while I was planning to fly somewhere sunday night for a few days couchsurfing but still have to proper sleep. The birds make me sad and just ... .

Whats the point man. Whats the point to continue? Whats the point of me waking up in a few hours and go sleep at a couch of a complete stranger? Whats the point... . I know im bound to think this way due to my burnout and let the pain succumb me so i can process it better ... . But whats the point? I dont want to wake up.

Ive read quite a few articles on how long people deal with the full extend of this BPD recovery and for some ot takes years. The mere prospect of feeling this, the way I feel right now for another 2 weeks is already to much to bear. And yes, i shouldnt take it week by week, i should take it minute by minute... . but my goodness. I ... . I just do not want to wake up anymore.

(Am still on my paxil, slowly decreasing dose so i can quit and try something else)

It sounds like some rest would help right now. 

I care about you, and I'm wishing you well.  The darkness will not last forever.  Keep walking, and this too shall pass.  I promise.

I'm glad you are taking the advice about the Paxil.  Isn't it ironic that antidepressants can make you more depressed?

It is.

And as addition to that. Harm is flying away to a foreign country within 2 days, to couch surf there with some complete random strangers for quite a few days. Why? Because staying here, in the Netherlands is not going to do me any good and i'll make sure that I come back for my next therapy appointment.

I can almost feel you through your posts, it is quite intense. My advise for you is that you talk to God. You might find the advise ridiculous, but keep it with you still, and use it when you need it. Trust me miracles do happen, you just have a veil over your eyes and lies told to you by your thoughts right now, fight them!   

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately I was raised by one side of the family as non-christians (father) and the other side very strong orthodox christian (mother) as my parents seperated at a young age.

Meaning, when I was at one side of the family, I had to go to church twice on Sunday, was not allowed to watch TV on sunday, nor do homework on Sunday, nor take a nap during the day (also not the monday - friday) and had to socialize with other people from the church.

What happened when Harm hit into puberty? He went against both thoughts, so he just decided to move to a different country on his own and I just read the bible completely back to forth and wasn't quite sure what to think of it. When just a week ago I had my strongest suicidal contemplation, I did pray. But i'm unfortunate (and feeling a tad guilty) to say that I prayed for him to stop my pain (as in, not to wake up). Because dying in ur sleep, would mean not having to deal with a suicide, and not a people being upset for yourself taking your own life.

However, I sincerely do appreciate your comment! Hope I didn't offend anyone with this. It was already strange being in between a superb strong christian side of the family and one other side who, well, clearly didn't care one tad at all. And I was always the little pawn in between.

It just feels so utterly pointless to continue. I've had a little touch of contact just not to long ago today (breach I know, stupid) and it just feels right back at where it all started. Triggerfest I would call it.

Whats the point man, whats the point to continue? It's not that i'm completely devastated about my loss with her, although I am in a way, I'm physically and mentally drained till the utter bone. Not only does it not feel good to do something, I noticed or more or less was overwhelmed by the uselessness of it. My ex ... . man oh man. Did I just live in a dream for the last few years and did I just wake up?

I feel i've pushed 60 years in 4 years, where I had a successful career, top uni and lived together with a r/s. I had it all. Now i'm in some farmland far away from everything trying to put the puzzle pieces back together. And although I know deep inside, I could get all this back, in a different country, under different circumstances. I don't feel it as a challenge. So I ask myself, i've tried those, what else is there to try? I feel i've got nowhere else to run. I just rather close my account here, forget about it all, and just hope I wont wake up tomorrow.

If I had a button to dissolve, it'd push it right now. Meaning, it's time to grab my phone again. It's not that im weeping of depression, I just feel literally no point to continue.

How thick, is that brick wall in front of my face? I can only image my shrink and maybe some of you here sometimes feels it's made of some mixture of platonium mixed with steel and diamond or something. My goodness... .

I despise the day I was introduced to 'personality disorders'.

Dont let her and her disorder beat you mate! You are so much better than that and you know it! Each dark day you are going through right now will be rewarded to you at a later date in your life!

I have high hopes for your future Harm. So should you!

I have a very dear friend who had a similar experience in the Greek church she grew up in. She felt always scolded by the old ladies and not welcome to just be a child. Plus, she did not speak Greek and could not understand the services. My experience with Orthodoxy has been different, so it is not that way everywhere, but I have seen the same attitudes in plenty of other denominations and even other religions. It is always unfortunate when legalism puts out the spark of faith, whatever that faith may be. I am thinking of something Ghandi said about how he respected our Christ but not our Christians. At any rate, I am sorry your experience in the church felt so oppressive. The God of Orthodoxy is compassionate and merciful, so should be His people.

If you have a Bible nearby and feel open to reading it, maybe some time in the Psalms would be helpful. Or, even just sitting in the back of a church and listening during a quieter service like Vespers or Orthros (or whatever is said where you are). Personally, I often just take a few minutes and look at an icon of the Theotokos. Certainly you do not have to do any of that... .   but it may be worth a try. I know when I was depressed I was not sure I even believed in God anymore, and I had always been very devout. I discovered I did not have to believe in God for Him to believe in me.

Whatever you choose spiritually speaking, just know we are thinking of you and cheering for you. I think getting out of your apartment for a little trip is a great idea and I hope it refreshes you a little. It is good to see you making plans.

Today I saw some fabric I thought was really beautiful. Have you found beauty today?

PF

Hi Harmkrakow

I am an atheist but I find peace in churches at times. I think PF Change is very wise.

I have seen a few flashes of hope in your posts over the last couple of days and it has given me some happiness to see that. I care that you will get through this because I believe you have great things to offer this world. It is not often I see a person with such depth of insight and understanding into the human condition at such a young age. I also believe that such understanding is  difficult to bear and I am so sorry that the pain is so great.

You are also offering great support and insight to others on these boards and that is invaluable. So many people here want you to live because we know that there is a recovered Harmkrakow on the other side. I know that you cannot see that. I understand that the darkness feels too much. I don't mean I feel your pain or get how you are feeling but I have known people who have been suicidal and who have died and I have known those who have recovered and come through it. I have known people who woke up after attempts devastated that the attempt failed. But everyone of those recovered to a place where they knew absolutely that they wanted to be alive and were so, so thankful that it hadn't worked.

Please hang in there and keep posting. Wanting the pain to stop is not a reason to die although I do know that it feels like it is. Please stay with us, day by day.

Very good Harm!  Just make sure you make it back from that road trip  rested or tired in a good way.  No silly or reckless behavior, if you please!  Okay, a little bit silly would probably be good for you.  Keep in touch or I will worry!

Harmkrakow,

Remember there is beauty and wonder in the world. I hope you can find some today. I'm remembering a poem that I ran into in a book by Thich Nhat Hanh (A Buddhist monk from Vietnam)


Keep looking--something or someone is holding your smile for you. I hope to hear that you find it on your travels in the next few days.

That is an awesome quote, Grey Kitty.  I read an excellent book by Thich Nhat Hanh on Anger... .

Harmkrakow,  So much of what we feel is related to our perception, imho.  This is not necessarily easy to practice, as I've experienced, and as you are experiencing!

Have a great time on the trip Harm. But do remember to send us a virtual 'post card' or we'll all be upset!

   WWT.

Ill post a an actual photo. Most of this board are americans and the majority havent been to eastern europe. 1+1=2 Ill drop a few. It's a good obligation to come back here.

Have to say i'm ~less scared though, but my therapist, doctor, and even you guys stand behind it. And in a way it shows courage. Who would go to a place where they barely speak english, don't speak the language at the depth of their depression all to "respark" my engine and hopefully life will show me that it's worth fighting for.

It also confirms to me that im not going to wait to recover from this years to come. Whats the point in doing so? I see people here still being hurt 2 or 3 years after a break up. Being scarred, wounded. That won't be me. Either i'm going to process it and bash through it or pull the plug. The prospect of being miserable for months let alone years to come, mourn during Holidays because your alone and think about "what could have been" will literally kill me. I don't see the point. Of course I will give myself time, I will try what I can to respark my engine and thank my therapist, doc, this board and some individual users here helping along. Feeling guilt for something you could do, always helps to prevent.

It's not being depressed as hurt per se, but purely a faded interest in life (of course the major shame and guilt is still knacking my shoulders). I rather live a short life well taken care of than a long life in complete misery and pain and being attached or dependent on anti depressants. Many of you here take energy and rest from a higher power, I don't yet, however what isn't there yet can always come.

I feel so utterly stupid for being fooled by a disorder who took 2 years of my life, which I obviously allowed. The worst thing a person can do to you is take your time conciously, the second would be allowing someone to take your precious time, and thats eaxctly where a BPD breakup is categorized. Im never going to get my time back, that hurts through to the inner core. Meeting a BPD is like the financial crisis, you know you can't maintain it and you try million ways to get out of it as neat as possible but still inflict major damage along and in the end. People often say, just learn and move on. You have learned from a BPD break up. It is yet beyond me why I feel life has no point continuing after this break while all other breaks had none of these issues. Oh wait I do, all other breaks didn't end in smear campaigns, immature behavior, raging, blaming, no allowance to actually heal and recover.

Im not going out for the sake of going out, because that does not carry any weight. I don't drink for the sake of drinking. I know people, a lot of people who do things purely because its either what their peers do, or what they feel they must be doing. If often comes to a few who rule a big group and others who follow and next to that the others who feel therefore pressured in following that way. People who smash or hurt others just because they don't move along with their peers and all they say; "whats wrong with you" are people who live so much in fog it's ridiculous. I refuse to follow that path. I can't be bothered with that anymore. Do what you desire, not what your neigbour does. It's one of the reasons why so many people got into major debts. They see their neigbour getting a big plasma tv and decide they want 1 too... . Which is all fueled by todays screwed up modern sense of technology like facebook and linkedin where it's all thrown into your face ... . Which in essence created this website!

I currently live my life with a morbid instinct as I treat everyday as one that could be my last. I don't do this intentionally but inconciously as my brain doesn't feel challenged to pursue something. Whats the difference between crying in bed in your home or being in a house with a bunch of strangers miles away from any place where you would feel secure? Tomorrow will tell.

|iiii   

  Harm. Lots of   to you!


I understand why the trip feels scary. But it's great that your GP and T are both in favour. Also remember the trip isn't such a big deal - it's just one stage in your ongoing process of dealing with the trauma and entering recovery. Maybe try not to build it up into too big a thing in your head.

There are bound to be good things about going away for a few days - and not such good things. That's all fine. You'll have times I'm sure when you'll be helpfully distracted by the interesting and new things going on around you. (Do remember not just to go to old, familiar places full of memories - that's not such a good idea). If you're feeling really 'down' at any point - you could just say to yourself - 'OK - that was to be expected - it's not possible to just leave home and for everything to suddenly feel OK - I'm in a vulnerable state right now and I'm challenging myself by going on this trip - but it was a brave and positive step to take and there will be helpful things and people that will come along and distract me and improve my mood before too long'. And then you can write a post to tell us all about it... .   and also re-read some of the great support and encouragement you've received on these boards.

You talk a lot about people posting on these boards who you feel are still recovering 2 or 3 years after the end of their relationships - and you say you don't want to be like them - because you perceive them as being trapped in an endless nightmare. But from what I read that's not how it is at all. People do - on the whole - make substantial, gradual  progress. They may well have rough patches and times when old memories might come back to them some time after the event. What they don't do is stay endlessly in a crisis state. I know it feels like it's never going to end when you're in it - but that is just one of the awful tricks our brains can play on us when we're in an 'emergency' situation. But that's not the reality - keep reminding yourself of that.


Looking forward to those postcards!

WWT  

It does feel scary. I feel anxious. I never had anxiety issues until I met my ex. Nor had anxiety issues for exams, or during other r/s. It all happened when my self-confidence got broken and I react like a 2 year old from time to time yelling for his mother, while, well, I never had the assistance of my mother.

Than one would wonder, after loads of conversations with the shrink and the doctor, maybe they were underlined. Maybe they were always there? My therapists and doctor disagree. My ex agrees.

I mean, I normally would love to travel. I do, really do. F*ck it wherever. And now, anxiety. What if they don't like me? Fear of rejection. I've never witnessed those feelings. Nor in childhood or in puberty. I was always an acceptible guy with friends. A variety of friends. Never bullied. Always fun. Good grades, good in sports. Even at one time dating the best looking girl at school.


I will visit old places, for the sake of the fact that now in my memory, i've put them on a pedestal. They shouldn't be. Life continues. Life goes on, and I have to move on. I need that spark again whatwasthat. That spark, in my engine. I really need it. I feel so empty, I feel so numb. I hope to regain my spark there but also realize the r/s wasn't as romantically awesome as it should be. She treated me like junk.

Fact of the matter is. I could visit her. But im pretty sure everyone here would say... . NO HARM ... . DON"T DO THAT.


I just feel stupid that from time to time I seem to lose control over my emotions. Again, this is not something 'normal' for me. My head are not my thoughts. However, from time to time I just let it go. I am to hard on myself. I am.

My former colleauges are telling me, why are you not coming back to work?

My dad disagrees on my trip, he think's it bollocks, stop crying and start working again.

My ex tells me that any feeling of 'feeling empty' is just stupidity. Take a good night rest and work again, whats wrong with you?

My friends are telling me, your missing out on the rat race of life

The people who help me professionally tell me to move out the country; seek yourself again harm. Again, I don't feel like I have a lot of support. That hurts.

Going to my 'old' place now, will be visiting a lot of places i've been to with my ex. They will now be alone or with a bunch of couch surfers. I was so afraid for rejection that I actually booked a hotel alongside my couchsurf experience just in case they won't accept me.

I will definitely show you some photo's of my road trip, not that most care, and it more or less turns into a diary from my point of view, but I consider it my path to hopefully a better life. A new life, a life where I see purpose again.

What do I do if I ran into my ex?

I will deliberately face the places we have been to. Why? Face your fears. My goodness, I might end up in tears, or I might think, ... . was this all? Was this it? Was this worth it? All those tears back in Holland?

You guys have been of great assistance. I don't deserve your help, but sincerely appreciate the emails and support. Your helping a 25 year old maintaining a bit of balance in his life.

I hope this trip will smash me out of the crisis state. I really hope so. I also hope I deserve so. All I want is just to purely help people in life. Assist people. I know with my abilities I can be of assistance.

I might take the bible with me.

There will be a time where I will stop playing the victim here. I am not a victim, I allowed myself, deliberately to be in this mess, i'm an adult and should be able to sit through this without self-harm.  (although I wish that my gf will endure the same one day). It also what my shrink told me, your ex gf won't understand what your going through until she will once go through it herself. When I ofc. told her this she went berserk.

I wish I was just raised in a family, with a mother and a father, 2/3 kids, where I would have a brother and a sister. And just become a carpenter within the same town, get married there, drink beer on the couch after I get home and have 3/4 beautiful kids.

Rather than flying through Europe for financial business, constantly working and considering yourself a European.

My ex told me many times, I worry you are going to be as bad as your father, as lonely as your father and as screwed up as your father. As he is the only one (as my mother is mentally ill) that hurt immensely. My father is a typical loner, but very clever. Wouldn't say monk, but wouldn't be far of it. My mother lives in a psychiatric institute and other than that, i've had 6/7 other mothers and fathers (foster ones). I lost count. So ofc. i've always the feeling, gotta fight for myself to get somewhere... .

Meaning I was afraid I might be suffering from all sorts of disorders and mental illnesses, also in regards of my mom who is locked up. Even had a MRI scan of my head.

Result?

None ... . superbly healthy brains and clever intelligent boy.

Love you guys!   Within 24 hours, Harm will be somewhere on a couch, far far away from here.

I really understand the wish for a "normal" FOO. That's one thing I have had to grieve and accept that I can't change. And, in many ways I have had to learn to parent myself and meet my needs in other ways b/c they aren't capable. In your case I think it is probably the source of most of your core wounds, this particular exGF just poked around in places that already hurt. You will recover from both things if you want to keep doing the hard work. It really will not feel this cripplingly hard forever, that part is only temporary. This work is a lot like exercise, the first day you ever go to the gym you are going to be sore and fatigue easily and think you will never be able to finish even a short set. But if you keep going, you get stronger every day and things feel easier.

But I'm really interested in this dream of becoming a carpenter. That sounds like a lot of fun. Have you always had an interest in that? I think it's important to do things you *want* to do. It sounds like there have been a lot of "have to"s in your life, and those can really weigh you down.

You are sounding in much better spirits than you were last week. I am really excited for you to get to go on this trip and will look forward to your updates. Safe travels!

PF

Thank you. I'm currently at the airport awaiting my flight (leave in 50 minutes). I feel anxiety throughout the bone. This is what I normally used to do but I even associate airfields with my ex and it turns my stomach upside down.

I literally got shivering anxiety all over me. What if the couchsurfers won't like me? What if they aint there? What if I sink the moment I see the old places again? I do know in regards of codependency that this trip is the first thing I actually do for myself since my break up and to 'face' the pain. Not to walk away from it.

And hopefully, day by day, the pain will become a bit smaller and smaller ... . but the hurdle to do this. Big. Very big. My body tells me to go home and stay in bed ... . and then I go do something this crazy?

When I get a case of the "what ifs," two things help:

1)make a plan for each one, and

2)replace the negative thinking behind them with positive.

For example, if my what-if is: "What if I have a panic attack in the middle of the grocery store?"

I can plan: I can take some deep breaths, leave my cart (trolley?) right where it is, and walk to the restroom or outside until it passes. Then, I can decide whether to finish shopping, check out, or just drive home and rest, depending on how I am feeling."

I can think: "I will be ok. Chances are pretty good that I will not have a panic attack, but even if it does happen I know I can take care of myself. I am a good person. Everyone feels ill from time to time, so it is not bad if I feel anxious in the store, or if someone sees me cry, etc."

I think this trip will give you lots of opportunities to see how capable you are. Even when you might feel triggered, you are going to take care of yourself. And you will be creating lots of new, positive associations with the places around you. I am really proud of you for trying this--I hope you are giving yourself credit.  |iiii

We   you, too!

PF

I feel with you about the deep wish to have just a normal, healthy FOO. 

I hope all goes well with travelling, you are in my thoughts.

Just a sign of life here, the moment I have time to write an entire essay here I will. I've endured so much last 50hours from the worst bottoms and complete and utter despair and contact with ex to immaculate joy to utter numbness.

By all fairness I drank water from the kitchen and forgot I was in Eastern Europe, and suffer the physical consequences at the moment. I hope to either tomorrow or today write my report here, because I think it might shed some light and help for others while i've had my worst moment in life just a few hours ago, middle of the night, in an old communist area on a railroad track from the 30s crying and just having the worse feeling to couch surfers coming along after hearing my story to the place of my ex.

It is brave to face what causes you so much pain.  It is empowering to know you can.  It is inspiring that you found some joy in this.  It is good to find you posting.

Just wondering how your trip is going and how you are doing. Saying prayers for you.

PF

  Hi, Harmkrakow!

I got your PM and wanted to say it is wonderful to hear from you. How cool that you made new friends on your trip! I bet that feels good.

You asked a lot of good questions. It would be great if you are willing to cut and paste your message into a new thread here on board. I find the collective wisdom on the boards to be very helpful.

It sounds like the most recent conversation with your ex has left you feeling confused. This is a really common feeling for anyone who is interacting with a pwBPD. Their view of reality is vastly different from other people's, and is often inconsistent. The rest of us end up doubting our own perceptions and feelings because they are so insistent that theirs is "right."  Based on what you wrote to me, it sounds like your ex is projecting her own fears and insecurities onto you. You do not have to absorb them.

In another thread this week, I told the host, "Be careful asking the blind whether that color looks good on you." A person with BPD is *not capable* of giving you accurate feedback about your mental health. It's probably not a good idea to ask your ex for her opinion about you or the work you are doing to heal, and if she gives it to you without asking, know that she is not able to see things realistically. You have people on your team who are trained and objective--your T and your GP. You also have us.

Support groups like bpdfamily.com have helped literally thousands of people recover from abuse and mental health setbacks. We need a safe place to tell our stories and receive support and validation. This is a very important aid to healing. One thing that makes bpdfamily.com work is that we encourage anonymity, so that we can feel free to be honest about what we are feeling and talk openly about our experiences. If your ex knows you are posting here and your username,  it will not feel like a very safe place to reach out or be honest. Any of the Moderators can help you change your name so that you can continue posting safely. Just PM one of them.

It really is great to hear back from you! I hope to see a new thread from you soon (this one is already at the 4-page limit), maybe even with a new username.

PF

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