BPDFamily.com

I'm wrestling with this one.  I don't know just how seriously to take the moans and groans and "I don't know what's wrong, but the side of my face feels funny" and clenching of his chest and rubbing the side of his head.  I know he's had issues (had a clogged carotid artery that had to be unblocked) which caused similar symptoms, but he called a lawyer the other day to make a will and told the receptionist (?) that he just had a stroke and had to have a will made right away.  He's been like this for a week now and it's not getting better.  Last night he said he was freezing cold so I started a fire in the wood stove, sat him in a comfy chair with some blankets and put on a movie.  He continued the moaning, etc... .   but at some point he mumbled something about a doctor (?) telling him that it could be related to stress or nerves or depression. 

Unfortunately, he didn't expand and I wasn't about to push it.  I'm going to call a few counseling centers today to see if I can talk to someone.  I'm just not sure if I should approach the subject of him possibly going to talk to someone about this.  I've tried encouraging him to go to an MD, but he refuses saying there's nothing they can do.  He is acting fine today.  He brought up the fact that it could be emotional and not physical so I thought that maybe I could approach the subject of him talking to someone about stress relief?  I'm just not sure. 

Any thoughts?

I saw quite a lot of this sort of thing, as well. I finally decided that "just because it's all in your head, that doesn't mean it isn't real." So it may be that he is creating these symptoms because what he really craves is the feeling of being comforted, nurtured, and taken care of. The dilemma here is that catering to this desire reinforces the behavior and can lead to more and more of it.

I'm not one for giving advice, but I wonder if it would be possible to try to downplay responding to the symptoms, as much as possible and try to catch him when he seems to be feeling better. THEN reward that with increased attention? Just a thought.

I can really sympathize with you on this.  Maybe just suggest he go see a doctor to get checked out. That way you aren't guessing, and if he has a serious problem, it can be addressed.  I say this knowing how frustrating it is to pay for unnecessary doctor visits, but it does help everyone get to the bottom of of his issue.   

He's given me lots of excuses why he won't or can't, briefcase.  No insurance is the biggie.  The initial visit may not cost all that much but once you start getting into the tests and heaven forbid, surgery... .   we're talking big bucks that we just don't have.  He said he'd rather die than have to sell the house and give the money to the doctors.  I can totally appreciate his fear~~I've no insurance either.  I'm just really not sure which way to turn.  I've talked to him about seeing a doctor.  If it's bad news then it's up to him whether he wants to pursue further treatment.  I'm trying to be kind but firm.  If he doesn't want to do something about his ailment then he needs to quit complaining about it~~of course I didn't say it in those exact words :) 

In the long run, if he is having strokes or something similar, it would be FAR less expensive to see an MD now than to let it go on. Strokes can be prevented, and the after-effects treated effectively, IF the person seeks proper medical attention. (A stroke, once it's occurred, should be treated within 4 hours, or less, to minimize permanent damage btw.) Treatment doesn't generally require surgery, usually just medication. Bear in mind that a serious stroke (and they do get worse without treatment) can cause permanent disability and he could end up requiring long-term care or expensive assistive devices. I'm not trying to scare you, but if there is any possibility that he is actually ill, he needs to see a doctor. The stress of not know what's going on has got to be hard on both of you too! If it turns out that stress is causing the symptoms, well, then that is also something that needs to be addressed going forward, right?

Can you perhaps map out a DEARMAN conversation to have with him about this?

He's said "knowing my luck a stroke wouldn't kill me... .   it would just f me up for the rest of my life."  He understands.  I know these things as well.  I may be reading too much into this, but I believe that this is all about him not wanting to get a job.  He's said time and again that I can't take care of myself and that I've never taken care of myself, he doesn't want to have to take care of me, etc.  When I said that I'd give up on tile and find a regular job that has insurance the conversation went as follows:

Him:  well, that's fine for you but it wouldn't help me unless we're married.

Me:  that's true and you said you don't want to marry me.  If I get a job and have insurance, we can have a marriage with an escape clause so you can have insurance (said tongue in cheek) or maybe the rules will change so we don't have to be married for you to be on my insurance.

Him:  We can tell them that I had a sex change and we're gay lovers!  (*no insult meant to anyone here... .   laws are nuts) 

Me:  Oh now that's a plan.

Him:  (mumbling)  I'd get married but I don't want any big party.

Me:  I don't really want for much of anything. 

(silence)

Me:  I'm going to go start dinner.  (exit, stage right)

He's been really down on himself the past couple of days saying he's a f up and always has been.  I suggested that we try to find someone to help us cope with stress more effectively.  He didn't say anything, but at least I put the thought out there.

Rocky,

Are you putting this plan "on project status," as Dr. Phil always says?  :) Because it sounds like a great idea to me.

My pwBPD always gets "sick" when he wants me to caregive, or we have argued & he feels bad. I don't think he gets sick consciously, and I think he really feels bad due to emotions.

Rockylove, how do you feel about giving up the tile work and moving into more 'stable' work? Is this something you would do if you were on your own? I agree that it would be healthiest for everyone if you supported yourself (umm, pwBPD are sometimes not the most reliable and, as in any r/s, anything could happen). However, don't sign up for something that you wouldn't otherwise do just to get insurance that he may or may not ever be able/willing to use. Just double check that this is really something you are doing for you. No matter what happens, you can't save him from himself.

This is a huge problem for me, 50% of all conversation is abouyt health issues. some real some imagined and most of it exaggerated.

Sometimes I thing it is psychological hurt, and the need to get that out. But the only way to put that hurt into words that nons may empathise with is to convert it into physical symptoms.

Of course real ailments get lost in the cry wolf behavior.

Now my partner has been diagnosed with advance breast cancer, and has all the side effects of that treatment in front of her for a prolonged period. I am not sure how she is going to cope with real and ongoing sickness. I am already trained by years of milking sickness before the real issues start. At least the endless trips to hospital and doctors wont be an alien experience.

I always found listening to the hurt (support feelings) without offering solutions (not trying to counter feelings with misdirected logic) was the best way of dissipating much of the acting out.

I hear yah... .   last week it was her arm... .   this week it is her temporary tooth... .   what will it be next week... .   will keep you all posted.

P.S.  She actually made me put my finger in her mouth tonight so I could feel the tooth and inflamation... .  

I'm finding that 99% of what ails him, whether real or imagined, is exaggerated!     I've never seen such a drama queen in action before~~unless it was a 3 year old!  Oh, wait... .   yeah.   lol 


Hmmm... .   that's a possibility.  He's been so very needy lately.  He used to be the one that stayed up late and I'd be in bed by 10, but the past couple of weeks he's been the one wanting to go to bed early and lets me know that he wants me to go to bed with him.  He wants me to hold him which I gladly do. 



Would you expand on this thought, waverider?  I'm getting bits and pieces of what the real issue might be, but the story is not coming together for me.  He says he's an "f" up, always has been and always will be.  I can't validate that other than to say that I understand he feels that.  Validating words aren't jumping out at me on this one.  He doesn't have to continue to "f" up he has choices, but he doesn't see that and it would put him on the defensive for me to suggest that. 

I really appreciate the concern, bruceli, arabella and KateKat.  The reality is that I quit my FT job 9 years ago and started doing tile so that I'd have the freedom to return to school and complete my Bachelors Degree.  It took me until 2010 to do so, but I've got my $40,000 debt and that almighty piece of paper now!  LOL 

When the economy tanked, I couldn't find a job to save my life (sent out over 200 resumes and applications and only landed 1 interview in 2 years) and tile was at least putting a couple of bucks in my pocket.  I'm too old to be working at such a physically demanding job and it's taking it's toll on my body.  I've not been able to work at it full time~~it's just too draining.  I love what I do and will continue to do some small jobs on the side as well as make some functional art for the local stores and some small craft shows.  It's a great hobby that can earn me some extra money.  I never intended it to be my life long source of income... .   it was something to get me by until I could find a job that was closely related to my field of study and that would provide a steady income.  I've no regrets~~and I've nothing to lose by making a change.  I love new adventures :)

In other words I dont try to put it together or suggest ideas about how to fix the ailment. Simply use empathetic words along the lines of "i can see its causing pain/discomfort" etc.

For as long as I can remember she has not turned in for bed due to it being time for bed, it has always been feeling sick/headache/upset stomach  so needs to lie down. It has become ingrained behavior.

Now that she has a serious issue to deal with (breast cancer), her previous regular complaints are starting to drop off and those regular issues dont appear as much. This seems to point towards them not being physical but psychological

I'm so sorry she is going through the breast cancer and subsequent treatments... .   that can't be easy on either of you.   


I tend to get frustrated with someone who constantly complains but does nothing to remedy the situation.  I've always be proactive and even though I'm compassionate, there comes a time where I just say DO SOMETHING OR SHUT UP!  Not exactly the best thing.  I'll have to mind what I'm feeling and change my tactics. 

I started trying what Waverider suggests just a few months ago.  I found it hard at first NOT to offer suggestions.  I like to fix things and like to be helpful.  But then I remembered that when I had been offering help and suggestions just a few months earlier, my wife ended up accusing me of helping for all the wrong reasons!  So I bit my tongue and held back my suggestions as much as I could.

There was an extinction burst, but I think this was probably because I started to enforce a personal boundary or two right around the same time.

Interestingly, after what felt like an agonizing month or so, my wife started mellowing out a bit.  And she even thanked me for helping out more than I had been before.  She said our relationship was starting to feel more like we were becoming partners again.  I thanked her for saying that, and I said nothing about the fact that I had actually been helping her LESS than I had been before.

In hindsight, I think I ended up helping her almost exclusively only when she asked for help, while generally not offering unsolicited help.  Maybe the unsolicited help felt invalidating to her.

She will still at times ask "What should I do?"  I try to respond with a gentle way of putting the decision back in her court (e.g., I can share my thoughts but the decision will affect you more than me so you may want to decide; or you feel the <ailment> first hand, I don't, so I can't really offer a recommendation, I think you would know best).


Waverider, one more for you, especially considering what you're going through right now... .   

Well, as timing would have it, just today I had both a chance to experience what I believe was something psychosomatic and a chance to try being empathetic more so than offering a suggestion.

Sometimes my wife just happens to have issues that keep her from joining me at our marital therapy sessions.  Today it was an apparent allergic reaction.  She suddenly asked me to come look at a rash.  By the time I got there she had scratched so much that I couldn't tell if it was really a rash or if she had just scratched it.  She talked through what she had done, and there seemed to be nothing within many hours that could have caused such a reaction.

She started asking what she can do, what she can put on it, what she can take.  When she asked, I gave her factual information about the over-the-counter medications that we have at home.  Then I held back and let her make the decisions of what to try.  She asked about Benadryl.  I thought maybe this was a way of knocking herself out so that she would have to sleep through our T session.  I described what it would do, including knock her out, and again made no suggestion of my own.  Then SHE said "Oh, but we have T today!  Fine, I'll try the other things and then take Benadryl right before our session if I still need it."  She did, and she started getting sleepy during the session, but she hung in there through to the end.

And despite the fact that I felt like I was not being all that helpful, and even being rather detached, during our session she said that she felt we are doing better and being better partners.  Funny how finally backing off and letting go may be getting us a bit closer in some ways.  At the very least, for once I did not make things worse.  :)

But... .  back to you Rockylove.  I think I misinterpreted what you wrote in your last post.  I was thinking of wanting to solve problems for my partner.  I think you were referring to the frustration of seeing someone complain over and over while doing nothing about it.  Yeah, I can relate to that.  I think that's part of the acceptance that she will do (or not do) what she wants, and I have absolutely no control over what she does (or doesn't do).  I still find it frustrating to see her complain repeatedly, doing nothing about it or complaining about why she can't do anything about it.  And then I have to take some deep breaths and remember also that it has to do with her stuff, not mine.

It also goes a long way to reducing your frustration and potential resentment. Allows your partner to go on and deal with their own issues too, without being able to project it on to you.

Overriding that frustration of hearing people complain without doing anything constructive to resolve things is frustrating. But this approach has a better chance of success then being dragged into it, when projection and blaming becomes their method of resolution.

That's what I'm feeling at the moment... .  frustrated.  If he's genuinely ill then he should seek medical attention.  I need to keep the ball in his court.  He wants to keep it in mine, but I'm not playing the game that way.

|iiii

And now what to do so that you feel less frustrated? Back in your court!

Thanks for the reality check, arabella!  OK... .  I'm thinking and it's a brain drain!   lol  It's so challenging to validate when he's moaning and yelping and if I ignore him he gets louder!  It's almost funny, really.  It reminds me of my kids when they were little (3 or 4) and they'd get an "owie" and make sure that they moaned loud enough for me to pay attention.  Kissing their owie and offering a bandaid always satisfied them... .  not so much for the big 3 year old in my life!  Good Grief!  If you could see the show he puts on you'd think he belonged on stage!    

So... .  where does that put me in the realm of feeling less frustrated?  Radical acceptance.  He's going to be as he is and that's his M.O.  *sigh*

It sucks but its better than having a pointless fight about it.

Rockylove, I think it was the sincere attention and concern that helped the 3-year-old more than the kiss or the bandaid.

I suspect that your emotional 3-year-old (pwBPD) is looking for the same feeling, but doesn't get it from a kiss and a bandaid anymore :)

The emotional need of BPD is a black hole which cannot be completely filled. Even attempting to do so is regarded as interfering too much.

Acknowledge the existence of this need and stay away from the edges where reality can become distorted, as the draw of the neediness overrides everything else

I suppose I'm just trying to figure out how to respond or if I should respond.  He doesn't always do this (quite as loudly) it's different this time.  Perhaps it's because he's been more open and is feeling vulnerable.  I just don't know. 

Have you asked him what he wants? I know that sounds sort of overly simplistic but... .  

Him: complain. whine. complain.

You: It sounds like you still really aren't feeling well. You've told me you won't go see a doctor, is there something specific you would like me to do?

Him: complain. whimper.

You: Yes, I realize you feel terrible. That must be hard. Let me know if there is something you need me to do. In the meantime, I'm just going to go do x for awhile.

Maybe? (I'm not the best at these things so perhaps someone else can fix this up!)

He's all about the sympathy.  I hurt from head to toe.  He's got to one up me.  I shake my head, take a couple of Ibuprofen and tune him out.  Just can't take the whining tonight... .  I'm in a good mood... .  got a job!  No really... .  a full time benefits and all job!  go me!

Omg, Rockylove, CONGRATULATIONS! :)

Now, please send some of your job luck my way! lol

Wonderful, wonderful news!  |iiii

I have been using this approach with my hubby for a couple of years now. When he unleashes his 2 year old whining personality I ask him what is wrong and what I can do to help. His response dictates my next response, if he can state exactly what the problem is and what he wants or needs from me then I will oblige him. If he continues with the whining and complaining I then tell him that if he feels he needs me to call 911 to just holler and then I walk away and go do something fun by myself.

He has learned to soothe himself quite well and no matter how he chooses to do that I accept it. Sometimes he wants to sleep, sometimes he wants to leave the house and sometimes he just wants to mulligrub and I let him do just that. I make sure that I am available to him if he needs me but I distance myself enough to give him the message that I am not going to coddle him and hover over him like his overprotective mother did.

You got it, arabella!  Sending you all the good juju I can muster!   

Unfortunately, my bf's mother was neither coddling nor over protective.  She ignored him.  She still does.  She doesn't want to hear when something is wrong.  When his brother was extremely ill and hospitalized, WE went to Arizona to take care of him (as well as his house and pets).  His mother called once during the month we were there and sent a check.  That's always her answer... .  throw some money at them.  It's no wonder he's craving attention, but it does wear me down. 

I told him yesterday that it tears me up to hear him in so much pain and feeling helpless to do anything about it.  Oddly enough, when I got home from work, he was much much better!  The things that make me say hmmmm

Congratulations, Rockylove!  Go you!

My situation is much much different. I have a husband whose mother never let his feet touch the ground until he was over 3 years old and every time he whimpered she was right there. She claims he was a sickly child but I have begun wondering if that was just her needing attention and not him. She hovered over him like a mother hen and was still doing it when I met him.

This is pretty much where I am at with my partners current breast cancer, No S or E from family. Throws in a bit of CAPITAL T and puts some money in her bank now and then, thats about it.

Meanwhile my partner has now upped the invalid stance, I know its a real issue this this time, but rather than make life changes to fight it she is starting to wallow in it instead. Providing 24/7 solo support is draining me. We are at the recovering from surgery stage at the moment and have yet to undergo the the endless chemo & radiotherapy yet. Not sure have we are going to cope with that.

Finding that fine line between support and wolllowing in it is hard. I think we are already heading down the path of opiate painkiller addiction which has caused serious issues in the past