BPDFamily.com

I'm one week from the day he broke up with me. I feel just as raw as last Friday. I'm curious. He and I started spiraling out of control because he resumed a "friendship" with his ex, who is my antagonizing enemy, and he also started engaging in a questionable relationship with another woman as well. I hired someone to watch him. It turned up no real evidence that he was cheating, no physical affection shown,  yet there were a lot of half truths and non answered questions before each of his "meetings" with both the exgirlfriend and this other woman. woman. Further I have no idea what kind of stories he was telling them. What kind of relationship he was starting back up with the ex. In any event I have beaten myself into a pulp for reacting to these relationships the way I did with such fear and anxiety and insecurity, jealousy, etc. I couldn't help myself. 

The straw that broke the camels back was when I admitted then man I saw at the coffee place on three occasions was a private detective. He was livid and furious and fixated that I already knew things before he admitted them to me later in the evening or the next day.

So I'm curious - do BPD's have some hot button with your learning their secrets ? So they have some special explosiveness about you having watched them or found them out, blown their cover ? I feel like it's not my behavior of jealousy or insecurity that was the final nail in the coffin but rather the fact that I had a PI that really really pushed him over the edge. Does anyone know if there's a pattern to or something consistent with them freaking out about finding their secrets and lies? I'm still in a wealth of pain and blaming myself for going crazy as he calls it and blowing the relationship to shreds.

One detail left out- the ex was someone he cheated with after they broke up and i found out many times that he was still screwing her ... .  so that's why i never trusted them together.

My ex didn’t speak to me for 6-7 months when I asked her if there was anyone else involved – ‘how can you ask me that!’ ‘You aren’t the man I thought you were!’ etc etc

 

My experience (and you will see that often here) was when I caught her red handed, saw the texts and chat conversation, (on MY computer) she got mad because I was spying on her. She could not believe why I would betray her trust even as she is having an affair on me.

They will blame and project and even say they did it because of something you did etc etc.

My thoughts, if they have nothing to hide, why should they be upset?

Hi Siamese,

How ironic to find your post this morning

I had to share this experience with members affected by the irrational behaviors often seen in those suffering from intimacy/attachment/abandonment issues. My UD-exbf is known for sabotaging the things I value (internet connection, my appliances, etc.) during his "rages". In the past, he has cut the cords on all my appliances, ripped out the cable modem and took it with him, and remotely changed the configuration on the router. The acts alone are not enough for him as he will call me and say things like "How is your Internet connection working for you" and hang up. Or call and tell me he canceled the cable service (which was a lie after calling them). So, after years of the same old crap, I finally used something against him. I have evidence of his conversations with people at work where he mentions "drinking whiskey" and "eating certain foods", that were ALL lies. He does not touch any alcohol since recovering from a binge lifestyle many years ago, and I cook all the meals in the home and I am certain we didn't eat "a can of Bush's baked beans" for supper. (LOL!). I called him out on this and can not help but notice a huge dichotomy, its ok to ruin other people's lives but they have NO ability to deal with anything anyone dumps on them!  He has a long history of lying about things most people would not consider lying about.

Also, to prevent losing my mind I've turned to humor in dealing with his behavior. I know it sounds horribly cruel and unsupported, but to me its called survival. Now I sit around in my head laughing imagining him telling his boss "If I do not get what I want, I will sabotage your Internet connection!", and imagine him calling his boss and laughing hysterically into the phone and hanging up. This is how this guy deals with life.

The fact that you spied on him isn't what blew the relationship to shreds.

The fact that you felt you HAD to spy on him is what blew the relationship to shreds.

I don't know anyone (BPD or not) that would like to have a PI following them around.  It's a drastic solution to a drastic set of circumstances.  If trust and honesty were the foundation of your relationship, you would never used such drastic measures, right?  And how could trust and honesty EVER be the foundation of your relationship when he destroys your things?

The PI isn't the problem, the foundation of the relationship is the HUGE problem.  No trust.  Relationship over.

turtle

I found out things about by stbw.

She didn't explode, she just denied and went angry about me looking after the thruth.

It wasn't possible to discuss the revealed facts, it had to be about me checking the facts and about my lack of trust (even if I had 100% evidence).

Blaming and projecting.

And one more thing... .  

Anyone who harms you or your property is NOT trustworthy.  Your trust issues with him started long before you suspected his ties to these other women.  The other women might have been what propelled you to hire the PI, but you didn't trust him before that -- and you shouldn't have.

When I used to catch crazyx in his lies, it ALWAYS - WITHOUT FAIL -- sent him into a rage.

He used to destroy my things on a regular basis and then RAGE about it when I confronted him.

Then I had to ask myself... .  "turtle, why are you still here, expending so much energy trying to uncover his bs,  and then listening to him rage because he got caught?"  :)ealing with the answers to that was hard!

turtle

Turtle - I think you read a reply post from another member about the destroying of things and thought it was mine... . He didn't destroy my things. He just consistently lied about his ex and their relationship. Drove me crazy.

Turtle... .  makes absolute sense (she is rather adept at this!  |iiii )

Your behaviour in looking was motivated by his suspicious behaviour... .  

So right now you don't have conclusive proof... .  

What seems more important is whether you want to be with a partner you promotes such a negative atmosphere... .  

PwBPD will tend to react to our "truth" with projection, rage, deflection, denial etc... .  rarely do they fess up to their poor behaviour... .  

How we choose to react to this behaviour is how we move forward  |iiii

 

Oh... .  my apologies!

Destroying things.  Consistenly lying.  Same thing really ---- NOT trustworthy.  Your use of the word "just" in the above quote is something we all did.  It was JUST lying about other women, it was JUST the rages, it was JUST the cheating, it was JUST the violence, it was JUST this, that, or the other thing.  These are all HUGE things. Lying about things is HUGE and it doesn't chip away at the relationship... .  it DESTROYS it.

And of course it drove you crazy!  It's not supposed to be that way! 

The fact that you felt you HAD to hire a PI speaks volumes!  If he thinks that your hiring a PI is what blew the relationship to shreds, he's sorely mistaken.  The lies blow a relationship to shreds -- and that works BOTH ways.

turtle

Turtle ... .  you are right... .  

An adult who constantly breaks promises (or misrepresents facts with false words)... .  might as well be smashing up property... .  

It is totally dysfunctional behaviour... .  and it's our choice to decide to be around someone who is behaving like this... .  

It IS our choice... .  and how we let the waters get so murky about what is acceptable to us is what needs to be addressed.  At least that's what I had to address.  Not fun.

I am always astonished how someone else is addressing something that I need to hear.  Thank you all!

The final breakup blowout with my BPD exgf happened over her snooping through my computer late at night and finding pictures (not the inappropriate type or anything) of a friend of mine that I had gone out to dinner with. I purposefully left them on my phone (which copies them to my computer automatically) to see if she was snooping.

For the past year since the breakup, I felt guilty for essentially having "baited" her - but now I'm beginning to rethink that in the context Turtle has provided: what made me feel like I HAD to do this to see if she was going through my stuff? Well, the fact that I didn't fully trust her. What made me begin to not trust her? Her constant talk about how she "hated liars" and the fact that I saw her doing some extreme flirting with her coworker at an office party.

Thank you for posting your experience, Siamesse Rescue; and thank you for posting your excellent insight, Turtle :)

Caught mine red handed twice through Facebook messages. First time she told me the password and said she had nothing to hide, after finding deleted messages, or so she thought, she said I betrayed her.

Second time I guessed the new password,say what you will hacking or not but I got my answers and closure.

She used this act against me that I was a psychotic bad guy for doing this low act... .  Of catching her being unfaithful.

Her office mate said he had heard about it and didn't agree with what I did, but after I told him my side he understood and said he never agreed with what she was doing, and continued on to let me know she was having the affair all along and purposely treated me like crap to get rid of me.

He ended with "you were too nice for her, you're better than her"

He's a coward though as well for hiding the truth and covering up for her.

I respect none of the people she's associated with as she had them all under her thumb.

Except for me, I was the one person she couldn't fully control and get her way.

Hiring a PI sounds like its over the top at that point, but really it's probably not with a BPD partner.

Trust issues, relationship issues, it's not about the normal reasons one would hire a PI I don't think, maybe I am wrong but sever projection coupled with previous infidelity coupled with mirroring could make any nonBPD want the truth if he/she is getting mixed signals or I mean red flags then wonderful behavior, then red flags, intuition, gut feeling.

At the base it's because your in a relationship with someone who has severe BPD traits, at the peak nons do things they wouldnt do in any other relationship.

I think hiring a PI to get you the information you need to make a decision, is what you needed or at least something you found comfort in such as a solution to your r/s issues. If it's twisted, we're all twisted as nons at some point or another before we find our way with them or without them.

SR, hope you are taking care of you and really giving yourself love.  It's not an easy road with a BPD partner, give yourself healing things, it will pass. 

Oh my yes! The more you uncover, the more outraged they get. Remember, they work very hard to hide this side of them. They certainly don't want someone to come along and expose them. Mine threw a fit just like a child when I asked him to show me his cell phone because he became soo protective of it. Then I caught him sneaking over to his ex's house at 4 in the morning after telling me he was going to work early. It went on and on. I caught on to all his games. I know when he is lying, and I know when he is hiding something. I'm sure that had a lot to do with him not wanting to get to close to me again. I had his number. I so just want to text him and tell him what a sick, perverted, cruel, manipulative man he is. I think maybe this would be easier if I just got angry and let it all out.

I had the same experience. I overheard her talking with a guy while she was hiding in the bathroom with her phone. First I asked who she'd been talking to and she said it was one of her girlfriends. Then I said I knew it was so-and-so. She admitted that was true but said it was just about some minor work-related matter. So I told her that I had actually heard her through the door talking about how she couldn't wait to party with him. She got mad and said I had misheard her. A few days later I asked her about it again, and she said he was just a friend. So I told her I had read her email and found an exchange where he had said how fun it was to kiss her. Did she fall on her knees and beg forgiveness? No. She went ballistic on me for violating her trust by snooping into her email.

Once a pwBPD knows that you have understood their real self, their manipulations, their lies, their hooks and so on and that  you have understood about their disorder... .  they RUN from you as they lose hope that it will not be possible any more for them to control and manipulate you.

They jump to the new one who doesnot know them yet.

Yup, echoes of hell in this thread for me too.

The other women were triangulation (read definition) (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0); a BPD gets too close to you, they feel engulfed, need to find someone to idealize, a different phase of the pathology.  Plus it gives them a sense of control because they have options, and can keep the needed distance from you.

I think the core of the busted-when-lying rages is a belief by the BPD that if you really knew who they were, honestly and openly, you'd leave, and their biggest fear is that of abandonment, so they need to create a version of themselves they think you'll like, and play that; it started in their mirroring of you in the beginning.  Once they see it isn't working, because you bust them or display mistrust by hiring a PI of whatever, their cover's blown, shame shows up, they can't tolerate it, so they rage.

And like mine, your gut feel was telling you something, which motivated you to hire the PI to begin with, and that something was a lack of trust, like you were being played, which you were.  I just focus on the fact that she was doing it because she has a very low opinion of herself, and can't fathom how anyone could love the real her if the truth be told.  Nothing for us there, let's go find some someone capable of real connection.

A friend of mine told me that my ex had gone on a major promiscuity spree maybe a day after I broke up with him, sleeping with anything and anyone, even with his best friend/coworker's girlfriend (thereby sabotaging an important relationship and work contact).  It took me three months to digest the information and get the courage to tell him about it. When I finally told him that I knew what had happenned he tried to deny it at first, finally conceded and could only say he didn't know why he'd done it.  He clearly felt awful about it... .  it made me feel bad for him. I think in the end talking about it just made him feel so bad inside that he left right after I told him I knew.  I haven't hear from him since. 

My BiP/BPDh, even when presented with the evidence, denies, denies, denies any wrongdoing. He never gets angry about me snooping on his pc he just gets pissed that I am accusing him of something denies that he's done anything wrong and then he attempts to become Mr Perfect. I know it's all just an attempt to smooth things over so I don't try to leave or call the police on him (his activities are illegal) but too late, I called the police today. They are reviewing the evidence I gave them and likely will be arresting him in the near future.  All I can say is C'est la vie.

I think all of this applies to PAPD and NPD too.

The only mildly angry or even harsh feelings my ex pwBPDgf showed towards me in the 10 months I knew her was when I exposed her to her new guy, that she was still my gf for a good month when they were supposedly a couple, and had tried to get me to have sex with her in that time. She didn't like being forced to make a choice. She even basically said that in an email recently, that "when I had to make a choice I choose him." Well no ___? Like you think I was just gonna be cool with it if you chose me? This scenario should have never arose in the first place. But yeah, abandonment fears/low self-esteem issues. They don't like being found out for what they are, especially the higher-functioning ones like her. She won't even admit at this point that her disorder had anything to do with her cheating. Half tempted to email her and ask her: "Well, if it wasn't your disorder that caused you to cheat when we essentially had a perfect relationship then you must just be a dirty, lying whore. So which is it?" Doubt that would go over well.

Hi BorderlineMagnet,

Pop over here  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79702.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79702.0)  

People affected by Borderline Personality Disorder generally have diminished executive functions.

They know what they do is wrong but can't help themselves.

They know right from wrong.

Consequently all the wrongs they did on impulse continually revolves around in their heads and causes their pain.  Imagine you thinking all day every day of all the mistakes you made in your life. We would go crazy too.  They have found mechanisms to cope with this we will never understand.



Understanding reliefs our pain,  a bit !

Monty

Monty,

I actually knew these things... .  It's just tomorrow is the one year anniversary of us meeting, and I've just been thinking about her a lot lately, and have been in an angry/sad place. My life has been going great lately, and this is just haunting me. I miss her honestly. I know she isn't a lying whore. I know she didn't mean to hurt me. I know what she feels is probably more excruciating than what I'm feeling. I'm just really kind of mad at fate I guess. She was so much of what I wanted, that it feels like such a sick cosmic joke that she had to be BPD.

So true, I have said it a thousand times "WHY ME"

I didn't just run over a Chinaman, I got the whole bloody family !

Monty

The fact that she was the second BPD ex in a row makes it worse. She actually picked me up and made me whole again, only to shatter me even harder than the one before her. I'm strong and can endure, but there are days... .  

I have been 59 days now in N/C, after three years last March of being in Hell.  I to have ups and downs but I am finding the downs are becoming less.  I have my own home and the garden has been keeping me busy and my mind off things.

Monty

We went a month NC that she initiated. Then 2 weeks ago tonight she FB creeped me and showed up with her new guy at the same bar me and my friends were at. I suspect she wanted to see if me and my female friend were dating. She asked as much after my female friend seeing how much her showing up affected me confronted her. After a few emails the following Sunday I initiated the NC this time. So that's why it's kind of fresh for me.

You must go completely n/c.  I don't even go out any more.  I used to read her emails texts etc but I then discovered I was really half n/c, so I have become complety remote so as I can heal.  I would see her in the supermarket car park and I would finish up a mess.

I got out of town for 3 weeks, had a vacation.  Left the phone at home, no computer, and I came home much stronger.

Now, I'm on vacation at home, don't read her email;s, they go strait into the trash can  and her phone is blocked !

Monty

My uxBPDH seems to actually want to get caught and then pretends that I don't know what I know.  The biggest issue right now is his address.  He told me he moved and gave me his new address.  It was the local UPS store (he lives in a different city).  I told him I didn't think the cubicle would be big enough for him to live in.  He was furious.  Then he insisted that I do a joint tax return with him (his attorney threatened to bring legal action against me if I didn't), and got angry that I got a copy of the return with his W2's on it.  One of them had his actual new address on it.  Now he has sworn to the court that he has moved again... .  into his best friend's house.  He never moved, but he lied to the court.  He pretends that I never knew his address and don't know the truth.  I can only guess why.  He also is paranoid about bank accounts.  He was furious that I figured out where he banks.  I don't get it.  I don't know why it matters now that we are divorced, but he keeps on with it.  If it isn't one thing, it is another.

Interesting thought.

I myself have thought that quite often. Like she wants the attention, whether it's positive or negative.

Monty,

No way in hell will I give her the power to dictate where I go and what I do. And neither should you with yours. That is not healing. That is being held hostage to some extent. Do what you want to do. Maybe I should not have checked in on FB in a part of town she lives in- but I was curious to see if I had been erased. Nope, I hadn't. Case closed there. Hiding is not healing. Hold your head up proud wherever you go. Just don't make the mistake of advertising where you are like I did. Going out has actually helped me. Hitting the gym 4-5 days a week has helped me. LIVING has helped me. Not hiding at home under the guise of healing. That's giving her the ultimate form of power over you.

I have almost been in this situation myself. I caught him red handed cheating on me right under my nose, but not before I had seen many instances which made me suspicious of it going on.

He swore, after confrontation that I was wrong, I had imagined it all, adn at the time I was so deeply devastated  but so in love with him, that I chose to believe my confrontation was enough for him to turn a corner.

In short, I chose to believe he regretted it, was 'sorry' humbled. His manipulation and acting were so good that I still carried on with it all.

However, he continued to 'refer' indirectly to her, there were many inconsistencies to follow, he carried on being evasive, secretive, mentioning things which hadn't happened with ME, adn talkign aout things which clearly were about her, and of course I was obsessed with the thought that it was still going on,after all, although he had denied it, I did have proof of it happening previously.

I had those inconsistencies coming every single day, I analysed every word from him, his schedules, everything.

I was in a place where every single piece of contact had me doubting and suspecting him, and I knew that the only thing which would end my agony once and for all would be to hire a P.I.

I considered it over and over, all the time getting messages from him that 'didn't add up', but yet all the same usual words of love, sincerity, etc.

I decided not to hire a P.I. in the end purely because I already knew in my heart that anyone who can say to you

"I just can't let you go" but can deceive you at the same time, will surely be saying the same things to everyone he was intimate with? And if he couldn't let me go, then surely he wouldn't be letting her go either?

The above posters are right, hiring a P.I. is a drastic measure, but when you have been gaslighted into oblivion, and know you have been lied to over and over, you can easily lose perspective, wanting to trust versus constant suspicion can often have you feeling that it's the only option.

It's like we all have dealt with the same person... .

I had no idea my bf had BPD 6 yrs ago when I met what I thought was the perfect guy who listened & shared his feelings, then asked me to marry him within a month of meeting.  red-flag But I fell for it.

Moved in, then in sharing the same computer discovered he was a serial dater meeting people online the whole time. I got suspicious after he "shut off" emotionally. I was confused, felt I needed to know why... .

Then when confronted he denied then blamed me... .  said he was lonely & needed someone to talk to & I wasn't "there" for him even tho I was the one always trying to connect & understand him. He would act as tho I slapped him in the face when I asked him how he was feeling... . Then he was very condescending toward me pointing out any "flaws" I might have. Punished me... .

So  I left him, a few months later he claimed he loved me more than anyone ever, I went back several times.

I Wish I had known what I was dealing with, I wasted so much time was a complete train wreck... .  depressed, anxiety.

But learning & support on this website has been a Godsend, knowing I wasn't losing my mind & his rejection had nothing to do with me, yet I have alot of healing to do.

I start moving out  tomorrow. I have never felt so hopeful I can finally move w/o any help from him, back on my feet financially. I can cut all ties & finally feel Peace. He acts as if he cant get rid of me fast enough... . but I know the drill.

Changing  my ph# & any point of contact & finally feel free & on the way to peace & healing.  folie

I say that now & hope that I feel the same tomorrow, next week, month, year... .  

Siamese Rescue

Honestly, I would be angry and livid too when my partner would tell me he had a PI sent after me.

How do you feel about the fact that the PI didn't found any evidence?

mine recycled one of his exs at least three months before we broke up. He gave me lots of hints about it, it seems he got some kind of pleasure in doing it and give me pain, but he was always claiming they were just good friends. As we lived in different places, in the end he was always going around with her, among our friends. It was humiliating, for me, but every time I tried to discuss the situation he became harsch, angry and cold. She was a saint, I was the devil. She could say everything about me, I could say nothing. After I left him because of his behaviour (i.e. he had accused me to have said bad things about her at a birthday party, which was not true, and called me all sort of names) he reached out to me and we came back. Some days after, they agreed to make her write an e-mail to me, aimed to re-assure me about their r/s - just friends- while, as I discovered after, they were planning a weekend together. And, as "now things were ok" between me and the exGf, he wanted me to give him my blessing to their journey together... .  When he came back, he was very disappointed at my cold reaction and in the following days he alternated sarcasm and coldness with some good moment. Then he had two days off and he spent all the time with her (she was so nice to let me know it by Facebook... .  ). This made me mad and I called and left him. He was very angry, blamed me for all that was happening and denied everything. I am the crazy one, I'm the one who created all problems and destroyed it all. She is the saint, I'm the one who is toxic and full of anger. Than he painted me definitely black, blocked me on Fb (after I removed him because he had put me in the acquaintances list for the third time) and whatsapp and so on. But he never admitted his cheating, even if they are now openly dating.

I agree. My BPD ex kept mentioning other girl "friends".  Either he was tired of lying about himself (he was actually way overly candid with me about other things), or wanted to provoke me somehow, so without actually saying that he was sleeping with others had other ways of letting me know others were in the picture... .  

I was thrown off from the beginning because of my BPD exgf's adamant hatred of liars and lying.

As an accountant, tax season was hell on her stress levels (and on our relationship), but we made it through; on the last day (tax deadline day), her firm threw a very nice party with an open bar at a local restaurant (local to her meant over an hour of driving for me). She often said that she had never made it through tax season with a boyfriend - I was determined to be different! We spoke a lot about how the end of tax season would be a huge milestone for us, so imagine my surprise when she stopped texting and emailing on that day. In fact, all I had was the address and a vague time. Apparently I'd be picking up her best friend and meeting her there "later". Imagine my surprise after 2+ hours of driving, waiting for her friend, etc, to finally walk into the restaurant where the party was being held - to see my lovely exgf drunk as a skunk, blatantly flirting with her coworker. Not just any coworker either, but who appeared to be the casanova of the office, by which I mean a smarmy "player" type. I also knew that they had gone out drinking together during the prior year's tax season.

While she did greet me with the requisite kiss, I could tell that she was very drunk. Her friend that I brought with me had actually brought her a present and asked her to choose which piece of jewelry she'd like from a little bag her friend had brought. Imagine my surprise when my exgf goes to the "player guy" and says "ooh, which one do you think would look best on me?". It was as if I didn't exist.

More disconcerting to me was how she immediately went back to drinking with this guy at the bar and more-or-less ignored me. At one point, the guy began to put his arm around her and kissed her on the cheek. Another younger male coworker joined in and asked "<lhd981's gf>, would you sleep with me?" (as a hypothetical question). Her response "No, I told you, I like bigger guys. You're too small for me." Afterwards, the same coworker motioned towards my exgf and the "player guy" and made a very clear gesture with his hands about them engaging in sex. Only for another, more meek and nerdy coworker of hers to pull me aside, point to them and say "If that were my girlfriend, I'd have left by now".

She did apologize of sorts two days later; her excuse was that "I hadn't touched her much during tax season" - which was an incredible rationalization on her part; she explicitly told me that, after regularly working until midnight and beyond every night, she wouldn't much be in the mood.

Furthermore, we were once discussing a new apartment for her and she mentioned how "player coworker guy's" apartment complex was very nice and his apartment had a great layout which she began describing; only to end with "I mean, not that I've ever been in his apartment". If I were a more vindictive man, I'd have pushed her on what she meant by that.

Funny thing is, the past is the past and it doesn't bother me what she did. What bothers me is that Ms. High and Mighty may not have been anywhere near as virtuous as she claimed to be.

I have mixed emotions about all of it.  First, the private investigator seems shady to me and the fact that he has had an indirect link to my ex and my ex's ex-girlfriend because he was working for business people that they were involved with makes me suspicious.  Each time I met with this PI to pay a bill, my ex-boyfriend mysteriously happened to see me or one of his friends saw me. Too coincidental.  (yes, I could have paranoia from dealing with my ex for this long)

How do i feel about the lack of evidence? Again mixed emotions.  How do you feel when your ex who was at the time your bf tells you he "has to" take his ex-girlfriend, your enemy, out to a function on a Saturday night because she's handling his foreclosure for him and he promised her a long time ago he would do it for her... .  and the PI surveillance shows they weren't holding hands or kissing - How do you feel about that? Oh, well, he took his ex out while i sat home but he didn't kiss her... .  

Then the second incident, with the other woman, he lied beforehand about the circumstances of what he was doing that night.  He told me he was going to something related to his business (and it was legit) and having dinner afterward with three guys. Well, the surveillance showed he took this woman with him, afterward they made one stop that was related to the business they're in, and then he dropped her off with no affection.  He then called me when he got home (and I believe he suspected he was being followed, he admitted at the break up that some guy was following them) and he casually admitted, "oh the place was amazing babe and I got to meet hit_ and hit_ and it was fantastic facility, I went down with "Suzie" cuz she was going so why take two cars, then afterward I stopped her at hit_ so she could decide about hit_ then I dropped her off at her car. I just got home" ... .  

So I ask, why didn't you tell me this morning that you were taking her? "Well, you asked me if I was going with women and I said I was going with a ton of them and you didn't ask any more questions so I didn't say anything. I didn't touch her, it's business, why are you mad?" "Because you told me you were going alone and having dinner with the men afterward" "Well, it didn't work out that way, why are you giving me ~? I didn't touch her!"  -----

Do you see how the half truths just end up piling up on me and making ME look like the maniac? He carries himself as marginally single in my opinion.  He might admit to his female clients that he has a girlfriend but it's usually a tale of woe... .  "things are kind of screwed up right now, blah blah blah" Why didn't he say "I'm taking hit_ to this seminar because she's signing up to do this business?" Why not just say it? Maybe because he fears I'll react and frankly, after five years of being lied to and cheated on, I don't trust him.  I simply don't trust him. I feel that if he loved me and was interested in putting my mind at ease in light of his cheating that he would introduce me to these women - simple as that.  Instead, he creates this climate where everyone has an adversarial feel - he whines to other women about his girlfriend, then if I casually meet them they look at me like I'm the nagging btch girlfriend... .  it's not fair, because any male friend I have has found me going out of my way to make him feel secure and comfortable - introductions, encouraging him to get to know them. I'm not hiding anything (i only have a few male friends - who are like brothers to me)

In the end I'm still intact enough that my brain hasn't been totally fried out from all this and I do realize that I probably blew this up --- He saw me with a private investigator - thought I was having an affair (he's accused every woman he's ever been with of cheating on him) and then i had to admit no, it's a PI and that set him off.  :)o I wish I could do it all over again? YES.  Would I still hire the PI? The answer is either No, or I don't know --- hearing that he wasn't affectionate with his ex was very very comforting to me and it gave me hope that I might manage to handle their relationship as it pertained to the handling of the foreclosure etc.  But maybe I wouldn't have -- I don't know.  I hate that the hiring of the PI and me being seen with him at a coffee place, on a parking lot, in a grocery store cafe, caused my ex-bf to think I was betraying him... .  I just don't see hiring a PI as betraying him when he has put up so many odd behaviors of hot and cold and unpredictability and nonsensical things - all I was trying to do was see if he was cheating on me.  I didn't want to be tricked again. I didn't want to be hurt again. If I hadn't hired the PI i probably would still be going out of my mind with wonder and curiosity.  

It's a no win situation.  He goes through periods where all is well and all feels calm, he is where he says he is, his head is straight, he is "with" me, then he loses it, starts doing all kinds of crooked ~, lying, being evasive, and then I freak and start digging... .  and when I invest in digging the effective way that yields results, I always end up disappointed and hurt. The day that he took that woman to that seminar, he called me right before he met her to make sure I was home. If I hadn't had the PI I would have stupidly believed he was going on his own... .  by himself... .  and if he hadn't suspected he was being followed, would he have confessed when he got home? who knows?

I appreciate this board because sometimes writing it out and thinking it out makes me feel validated that just because a PI didn't find any public affection doesn't mean that this ex of mine isn't a LIAR and a truth twister who regularly indulged in lying by technicality and omission.  

Thanks for asking me that because for now, I feel like I've realized something - not sure what but I've realized something... .

One day I'll emerge from this and I think I'll survive it.

I agree with you, there is some mistrust/paranoia in your lines, compared to your exbf and the PI.

Could it be that one reason for the PI is to validate your own feelings of mistrust? Which didn't worked bc he did not had strong evidence. And so you are back again with your mistrust.

Your mistrust is a reality. Your reality. In my opinion it is very difficult to be with someone in a rs when you not trust him.

You will survive it. And we are here for you. 

Thank you. My feelings are so deep for him and there's so much frustration layered in with all of it. I do realize that he is the root of the problem with his BPD and I have to own and acknowledge that I have become dangerously codependent.  It's extremely disappointing to me because despite the novels of agony I have showered upon this board, there were huge chunks of our relationship and the interaction that we had on a daily basis that was "good" for long stretches of time.  Even so, his ex was always lurking and she's vicious in her antagonistic ways toward me. (She's histrionic) I have had to face the fact that we were doomed from the beginning and all the connection, love, time spent together, was always compromised in one way or another.  Even when we would go away for trips, he'd be a wreck because of her tantrums and when we would get home he would turn against me. Bam. There's another example of one more revelation I am having about this.

Ugh. This is so painful.  I am embarrassed to admit that I miss him, or at least the part of him that I thought I knew or the facade of him that he showed me from time to time.