Title: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: struggli on May 15, 2013, 07:43:30 AM I must suck at moving on.
I initiated the break up. uBPDexgf behavior was getting to be its worst. Telling me she needed space but going out and drinking and flirting all night with guy "friends", lying about stuff, etc. When I broke up with her, she didn't object at all. In fact, she tried to make it so it was her breaking up with me. But when we were good together, man, were we good. You can say it was all idealization and mirroring, and maybe it was, but it still seems so real to me. It was as damn near perfect as a relationship could be during those good times. Then the push/pull, the drama, the wishy washy would set throw me for a loop. Then we'd be amazing again for months on end. Repeat. I just couldn't take it anymore. Why couldn't it just stay good? Obviously the potential was there. So, after the BU, she initiated contact about once a month, every month, for 6 or 7 months. (The beginning of Feb was the last time I heard from her. She wanted to know if I was OK. I said "yes" and she said "OK".) Was she reaching out? Was she extending the olive branch? I thought I'd be strong and not "take the bait." Yet, it still eats at me often that I didn't really respond in any engaging kind of way. The soft side of me thinks it was too cruel and unforgiving and maybe I shunned passive attempts at reconciliation. Example of text messages: Her: Struggli, I saw this and I thought of you. I thought you might be interested. (Pic attached) Me: Thanks. Nothing ever sufficed to indicate directly that she wanted to be with me and work things out, though, so I refused to respond unless she said something along the lines of "Struggli, I know I've been a b---h and I'm sorry and I really love you. I've had time to think about it and I really want to do whatever it takes to be a good girlfriend." But the messages were never so direct. Not even close. So I either ignored them altogether or gave the one word responses like "thanks", "cool", and "nice." Did my attempt to be strong at NC save me, or did it burn a bridge that I didn't want burned? I have been missing her increasingly more, which is not the feeling I expected at this point. Maybe I keep fantasizing that the message I've been waiting for (the one about her apologizing and making everything right) will finally come through. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: recoil on May 15, 2013, 08:18:29 AM Excerpt Nothing ever sufficed to indicate directly that she wanted to be with me and work things out, though, so I refused to respond unless she said something along the lines of "Struggli, I know I've been a b---h and I'm sorry and I really love you. I've had time to think about it and I really want to do whatever it takes to be a good girlfriend." But the messages were never so direct. Not even close. So I either ignored them altogether or gave the one word responses like "thanks", "cool", and "nice." I find myself in this boat. Sometimes I want to reach out and open a dialog because I don't think she can take responsibility for her contributions to the demise of our interaction -- but if I reach out and give her the ability to save face, maybe we could start again (I really miss the good times). She couldn't take that responsibility during our interaction, she certainly can't do it now -- and most probably, she'll never be able to do so in the future. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone like that (I have to keep reminding myself of this). So, with a heavy heart, I stop myself from reaching out every time. I don't know if I'll ever find someone who gives me the good times without the disordered bad times (don't mind "normal" bad times; nobody is perfect, including myself) but I will keep looking. Until then, it's self-work time. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: mango_flower on May 15, 2013, 08:22:07 AM You worded this so beautifully, and I have had ALL those same feelings.
Like, WHY did this happen when it had the potential for such perfection? I have to be honest - the ONLY way I have moved on (and I still wobble from time to time but it's getting less) is to ignore, block and be an ostrich (stick my head in the sand). I did 6 months of verbalizing EVERYTHING on here, analysing every day. One day, I knew I needed to stop. Enough was enough. Now and then I'll allow myself 20 mins of thinking about it. But then I move on. The other day I drove to our old flat we'd lived in together, and just sat outside, remembering all the hopes and dreams we had. Some people may think I'm crazy, but I need to do these things. Then I drove home to my new place, and went out with friends. If she's truly BPD (which it sounds she is) then you've saved yourself a ton of heartache now you're not together. She will not change without intense therapy, for years. Try and be objective, remember the bad as well as the good. You deserve better that lying, flirting, drinking and twisting the truth. Keep reminding yourself of that xxx Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Confusedandhurt on May 15, 2013, 08:23:25 AM Struggli,
I can definitely relate to what you're going through. My BPDgf broke up with me last July, and I've been pushed/pulled between, "let's not have any contact with each other" to "can you call me?" or "do you have a recipe for xyz?". The past couple of months it became clear that the only reason she contacted me was because she wanted something. Nothing else. So I decided to stop responding altogether. Just in the past month alone she has called 4 times and sent me two texts asking to talk. It's been really hard to ignore the contact, but she is in a very physical relationship with someone else and the only conclusion I can come to is that she needs something her bf can't give her. I'm tired of feeling used, but nevertheless, I keep wondering if she wants me back. Wishful thinking, I know... . You're not alone in your feelings. I miss my ex too, alot. We were together 4.5 years, so I still have a ways to go before I feel good without her. Take care of yourself! C&H Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: chuckstrong on May 15, 2013, 09:06:18 AM I am in the exact situation you all describe here... . C and H I have had the same (to a T) situation that you describe... . She told me 4 weeks ago " move on im dating someone we are never getting back together please do not contact me again... . to in the past couple weeks sending cute pics of us togeter and saying " i miss how much you cared for me and supported me" we are now exchanging occassional daily friendly texts... . Its SO SO excruciating even tho i know the reason--- BPD! It is still brutal... . I waver minute to minute day to day but i wonder if total NC is he only way too finally get over this BUT it seems with these people its NEVER over! Ever! UGH! Chuck---(not that strong) Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Confusedandhurt on May 15, 2013, 11:45:51 AM chuckstrong,
From my own experience and reading other posts, it appears that they never really ever go away for good. I honestly don't get it, especially when she's in a very hot relationship with someone else. That alone has really got me down, as she rarely exhibited that kind of behavior with me, but I digress... . As others have said, recovering from a relationship from a pwBPD is very different than recovering from any other relationship. We invest so much of ourselves in the relationship and it opens very old wounds that we don't like to acknowledge. My T is helping, but I just wish the longing will end. You might want to ask yourself why she is still contacting you. Everyone has their own reasons, but for my ex, she needed something (advice, a recipe, me to take a STD test - not kidding!). It was never about me, only her. That's why I've chosen not to respond any further, unless I get an email with more to it than, "Talk?". Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: tailspin on May 15, 2013, 02:02:43 PM struggli,
I also have moments of deep longing to reconnect with my ex. I'm sure recovering alcoholics and drug addicts also have moments where they want a drink or a fix. I'm saying this because what you are feeling is normal and to be expected; we are recovering from emotional abuse and the fallout takes some time to clear out completely. When the longing to reconnect with him comes to the surface... . I acknowledge my feelings without acting upon them because these feelings pass. And they will pass for you if you stop struggling against them. Try swimming with the current instead of against it. tailspin Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: TonyK on May 15, 2013, 04:28:39 PM Hi there, struggli and everybody.
After reading hundreds of posts in this board, written by hundreds of entirely different people, with entirely different personalities, who describe their experiences with their corresponding hundreds of different exBPD partners, a very clear conclusion can be reached, which personally amazes me. Depsite the vast diversity of the characters of the people who report their experiences and emotions in here and despite the vast diversity of their corresponding - diagnosed or undiagnosed - exBPD partners, this whole diversity actually reduces into just two distinct psychopathologies/behavioral patterns: that of the BPD patient and that of the patient's partner (i.e., of us :)). Every time we read a post, we can immediately identify our own self in the writer of the post: his/her experiences are also ours. His/her emotions we immediately identify as our emotions. This is also valid for the described behaviors of our exBPD partners. When reading about the actions, the texts, the e-mails of the exBPD partner of the writer of a post, most of the times we identify our own exBPD partner in these actions, text, e-mails, etc. In other words, all of our exBPD partners and all of us in here could, in principal, be merged in just two distinct, ''collective'' personalities, i.e. the BPD patient and the BPD patient's partner. The ''BPD patient'' character behaves within a very well defined and specific spectrum of actions, whereas the ''BPD patient's partner'' character reacts within a correspondingly well-defined framework. For example, rumination of the idealization phase, difficulty in detaching, tendency to recycle, strong belief that a r/s of similar emotional intensity is impossible to recur, etc, etc. This is not a simple issue. Nor is it readily obvious. We all recognize the psychopathology of our BPD exes. We all recognize that they behave in the same pattern and exhibit the same traits. However, so do we. Me, you, everyone in here. We act and feel as one and the same person, when it comes to our interaction with the BPD patient of our life. If it is so, which I believe it is, then why can't we just be tought by the destructive experiences of our fellow members here and detach? For example, struggli, in your post you wonder: '' Quote from: struggli link=topic=201261.msg12254637#msg12254637 Did my attempt to be strong at NC save me, or did it burn a bridge that I didn't want burned?[/quote What do you really think would be different this time, if your replies to her texts were encouraging her to come back? She would have come back, indeed. Nevertheless, just for a short recycle. She would go away again. She would hurt you again. You know that. Despite your inner hope that this time things could be different, better, your logical mind knows that this is not true. She won't change. She will never change. You can't make her change. You can't even help her change. I'm sorry. She's totally controlled by her disorder. ''[quote author=struggli link=topic=201261.msg12254637#msg12254637 Maybe I keep fantasizing that the message I've been waiting for (the one about her apologizing and making everything right) will finally come through. And what will happen if one day it comes through? You will forgive her and have her back. She will stay for, lets say, a couple of months. And it'll be great! The love-making, the fun, the whole dream will be real again! But, then, she will suddenly leave abruptly again. And she will stay away for 4, 6, 10 months, a year, two years... . who can tell, really? And you will be there, again, waiting for her to return to you, while she'll be living her life with numerous new ''loves of her life''. And then, one day, after who knows how long, she'll get back to you, for yet another recycle. For a week or two. For a month or two. Who could really tell? And guess what: she will leave, again... . And you'll be standing-by for her, again... . Is this really the way you want your life to go by? Read the stories of people who have been - literally and in various levels - destroyed, by persisting in these relationships, who have been recycled again and again, for many many years, just to end up mere shadows of their once robust selves. Don't think their story is different than your's or mine. We are all one and the same person when it comes to BPD, remember? Read their stories, because they actually describe your future, too. Not necessarily, though. Because the steering-wheel of your future is actually in your hands. Turn it away from BPD and their story will no longer be yours. Be well. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Confused69 on May 15, 2013, 05:26:08 PM I have been NC for 6 weeks now. Moved out 2 months ago. I loved her but couldn't take the drama and the constant arguing. I told her she was more of a dependent then a partner. She really didn't want me to leave but I'm thinking it was because I loved her, supported her and was pretty much all she has. She has 4 kids. 2 w her ex husband and the other two older girls live with their boyfriends I'm the same town. But she paints them black just as much as she does me. So I'm thinking right now I'm black and they are white. It's been the pattern in the past.
I was doing so good these past months wo her. But here lately I've been tempted to reach out to her thru an email or text. But the pattern has always been that I get met with rage or her acting like she's moved on. But then a few days or week later she will start reaching out. I know it's not worth it but I really miss her. I haven't heard or seen her in this whole time NC. I'm sure she has a new guy on the line and me going back would open up a whole new kind of drama. So I come here for support. I have been with her off and on for 9 yrs. I have been thru the same events many of you have written about. Stay strong everyone. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Clearmind on May 15, 2013, 08:39:30 PM It was as damn near perfect as a relationship could be during those good times. Then the push/pull, the drama, the wishy washy would set throw me for a loop. Then we'd be amazing again for months on end. Repeat. I just couldn't take it anymore. Why couldn't it just stay good? Obviously the potential was there. Its hard to move on when our thinking is steeped in fantasy thoughts. Your hope for this relationship will not change until you change your perception of her and your relationship. Why is it you hang onto the fantasy of this relationship when you push/pulled? Is this the basis of a healthy relationship? If so, what does a healthy relationship entail? So, after the BU, she initiated contact about once a month, every month, for 6 or 7 months. (The beginning of Feb was the last time I heard from her. She wanted to know if I was OK. I said "yes" and she said "OK".) Was she reaching out? Was she extending the olive branch? I thought I'd be strong and not "take the bait." Yet, it still eats at me often that I didn't really respond in any engaging kind of way. The soft side of me thinks it was too cruel and unforgiving and maybe I shunned passive attempts at reconciliation. Extending the olive branch to get back together? Her engaging in text is not extending an olive branch. Its simply contact – we don’t know the intent – its likely to mean more to you – hope has a tendency of hoping for a recycle. Example of text messages: Her: Struggli, I saw this and I thought of you. I thought you might be interested. (Pic attached) Me: Thanks. This is contact not a reengagement attempt. We seem to get confused about what engagement means. Engagement does not necessarily mean our ex’s want us back. BPD is shame based. You reply to a text and she feels worthy. Its using you to soothe. Nothing ever sufficed to indicate directly that she wanted to be with me and work things out, though, so I refused to respond unless she said something along the lines of "Struggli, I know I've been a b---h and I'm sorry and I really love you. I've had time to think about it and I really want to do whatever it takes to be a good girlfriend." But the messages were never so direct. Not even close. So I either ignored them altogether or gave the one word responses like "thanks", "cool", and "nice." Yes an emotional mature text to an ex partner (you) would say just that. Did my attempt to be strong at NC save me, or did it burn a bridge that I didn't want burned? What is it you holding out for her? For her to see the light so you can be there to catch her? Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: EyeCareSoMUCH on May 15, 2013, 09:14:25 PM I find myself in the exact same place as you at the moment. When things were good they were GOOD! The sad thing is my relationship was build on the worst foundation possible. We met shortly after she broke up with her, which I believe has BPD also. We "clicked" and she had this ability to suck me in. I was the world's greatest don't you know! Then things turned drastically. She was needy and manipulative. I still tell myself to this day, I wasn't initially attracted to her but it was her smooth talking games that sucked me in. We stopped talking for 3 months. I felt I was being used. I wanted more than a friendship and she knew that, but played around between her ex and me. After 3 months of NC she broke the silence by sending a phony apology. It said "I am sorry for the crap I SUPPOSEDLY put you through" Supposedly? What the heck, talk about not taking responsibility. Anyways I looked past it and gave her another chance. This time around she agreed to give me a chance at a relationship. God I loved this girl, and it was a dream come true. Within a week everything was back to normal and I found myself doing all the giving and not receiving anything. We dated for about 6 months and out of the blue, she dumped me. Said I was perfect but not perfect for her. Wanted to stay friends but I told her I just couldn't. What made it worse was that she had a daughter in which I grew very close to. She wanted to stay friends for her daughter's sake. I was heck no! She expected me to continue giving with no commitment. I told her I wanted no contact but after a couple days I felt bad and decided to email her. BIG MISTAKE! Told me she was done and had "flipped her switch", and that she was over it. A month goes by and I receive an email. It contained a link, and said absolutely nothing personal. The link was a news article that was related to my field of study. Now keep in mind that she also told me to leave her and her family alone and that I was creepy. So why send me an email, especially if it is about something I am interested in? I waited a couple days until I replied. I simply said "thanks" If it was meant to be an icebreaker, it was a terrible one! I told myself the email didn't warrant any response other than a "thanks" If it was more personal than yes I would have taken it further. I haven't heard anything since and it has been going on two weeks. When I did get the email, it made my heart stop. I was thinking "OMG! She is thinking of me!" I have found though she is chasing her ex and it appears that they are back together. Don't know how long that toxic situation will last but I am free! It hurts, I know but trust me you are better off. If you do go back, odds are nothing is going to be different. You may have your initial happy moment but the reality will all flood back. I love my exBPD more than words can describe and it stings! I have my good days and my bad days. You have to look at it as a lesson. I hope it all works out well for you! Hang in there, you are not alone!
Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Scott72 on May 16, 2013, 04:17:35 AM All this is me too! I tried nc but failed - she says she can't get back with me- regardless of the fact she loves me! I don't understand - I've asked her to explain but she won't. She wants me to leave her alone- I've said just tell me and I will, still nothing. I say tell me you don't love me, explain please so I can move on. Like all non BPD I need reasoning, which a BPD can't offer. To me if you love someone you stay with them. It kills me that her fear of being with me is stronger than her love. Yesterday she sat at the bedside of her uncle while he died. She shouldn't have to deal with these things alone
Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: TonyK on May 16, 2013, 05:09:02 AM Hello, Scott.
I tried nc but failed - she says she can't get back with me- regardless of the fact she loves me! This is such a typical and common BPD ''explanation''. ''I love you, but I don't want to be with you''. Oh, really? Why not? I used to get this all the time, when I was still dealing with her. Which mentally stable person would ever give such a contradictory and paradox reasoning? I don't understand - I've asked her to explain but she won't. Don't pay too much attention to what she says. Besides, she wouldn't have much reasonable stuff to say, anyway. When a pwBPD says ''I love you'' it means absolutely nothing. They use the word interchangeably, in order to express a wide range of other feelings they have, such as ''I need you'', ''I hate you'', ''I expect you to save me'', ''I expect you to be always waiting for me, whenever the heck I decide to play with you again... . '', etc, etc. She wants me to leave her alone- I've said just tell me and I will, still nothing. I say tell me you don't love me, explain please so I can move on. Like all non BPD I need reasoning, which a BPD can't offer. Indeed, she can offer no reasoning. Not to you, not to anybody else. Not even to her own self, as a matter of fact. You know, several times I heard my ex saying ''I must be crazy to be thinking of leaving you... . ''. No kidding. She'd say that openly. She was very self-aware about her mentality. Did that make any difference in the final outcome? No, none at all! Once the switch in their mind turns, whatever has been said, agreed, discussed, etc, is gone for ever. At the end of the day, after all has been said and done, the disorder always wins. To me if you love someone you stay with them. Does anybody even need to argue about that? This is common sense! Not to them, however. It kills me that her fear of being with me is stronger than her love. Ultimately, this is exactly the whole point. They are deeply ashamed of themselves. They have this deeply nested subconscious belief, that they're unworthy of being loved. My ex was fully aware of these feelings, she precisely described me her feelings of self-shame and unworthiness. No matter how much effort I put in to persuade her that these feelings have no real ground, no matter how much she seemed to accept and understand about it, in the end it made no difference. It's a damned shame that their fear of abandonment prevails over their love, but it is what it is. Unfortunately, it cannot be fixed. This is the ultimate bitterness from the entire experience in the world of BPD. I will never be able to overcome this, I only hope to become able to live with it in the future. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: alembic on May 16, 2013, 05:40:14 AM Nothing ever sufficed to indicate directly that she wanted to be with me and work things out, though, so I refused to respond unless she said something along the lines of "Struggli, I know I've been a b---h and I'm sorry and I really love you. I've had time to think about it and I really want to do whatever it takes to be a good girlfriend." But the messages were never so direct. Not even close. So I either ignored them altogether or gave the one word responses like "thanks", "cool", and "nice." Did my attempt to be strong at NC save me, or did it burn a bridge that I didn't want burned? Hello struggli Yeah, I know _exactly_ what you mean. I too have longed to hear my wife say something almost identical to what you have written here after the bad times. But it never comes. Yes, almost undoubtedly this was an attempt at reconciliation on her part. But reconciliation on her terms - terms in which she is not required to accept any responsibility or blame for whatever happened between you in the past. If she said the magic phrase (and actually meant it), then this would be reconciliation on your terms, and that is something neither she (nor, incidentally, my wife) are interested in achieving. It would also act as a stake in the ground, because from that point on, you would be able to say 'Yeah, but you said you would do whatever it took to be a good girlfriend, so why are you doing this?... . " They feel being so definite about their feelings hands over an enormous amount of power to the other person, so they avoid it all costs - much better to imply a reconciliation, and let you join the dots. If it then doesn't later work out, they can claim that they didn't want the reconciliation anyway, and it was you that made all the running. At least in my relationship with my wife, it often seems all about the power in the relationship. To quote from the TV series 'The Prisoner' "Questions are a burden for others, and answers a prison for oneself'. If you don't ever give proper answers, you are free to interpret past events as you see fit, and then you have all the power. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Scott72 on May 16, 2013, 05:57:49 AM Tony k thanks for your thoughts. Obviously you have experienced heartache too. I actually MSG my ex to say if I could help re the death of her uncle and to commend her for what she did- the reply- "there is nothing to be done its over I need to be alone! Please no more txt I am going for a meeting at bank to try and arrange an overdraft so please just stop!"
What a load of b****cks I'm sure that's just her trying to manipulate money from me. In the past I have helped, but bank shut now Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Scott72 on May 16, 2013, 06:30:02 AM Another thing which really bugs me, hinders my attempts to move on, is the fact that many BPD exes return. I would love that, so I hold on to that hope. I don't think she will, seems very unlikely, but I wish I didn't have that knowledge that many do!
Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: DarkCurls54 on May 16, 2013, 06:53:52 AM Sorry I am laughing to myself here... . But let us consider for just one moment: WHO is painting WHO "black?" I wonder if we can truly heal if we do not stop thinking of our exes as being "evil?" A disease has colonized them. And we didn't (1) cause it, we can't (2) control it and we can't (3) cure it. We will heal when we learn to feel compassion - DISpassionate Compassion!
As for the behaviors... . let's think just a minute about our own Projections and OWN them! My expwBPD truly believes that it was ME who abandonned HIM. All of our comments about NC from OUR point of view could have come from HIM about ME! I truly am coming to believe that part of the "mirroring" dance is that WE learn behaviors from THEM. This is not to say that we should blame ourselves or that we aren't assessing the situation correctly. But we, too, helped create the dynamic. How I wish I had had this insight several years ago! It would not have changed the eventual outcome, but I think it would have been more possible to detach without such rancor and resentment. My ex is NOT a "bad" person. And neither am I. We BOTH deserve love and understanding. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Scott72 on May 16, 2013, 07:12:16 AM My ex is NOT a "bad" person. And neither am I. We BOTH deserve love and understanding. Dark curls I totally agree! I find the negativity, wether born from experience or not, distressing. My pet hate is when my ex is vilified! She is ill! Not her fault! I have an illness which affects my muscles- I shouldn't be treated negatively, and neither should she. I have debated with friends and family and had heated arguments with my brother who is fiercely protective of me and didn't like her treatment of me! she is not a bhit or evil. I miss her so much, will always love her and wish she realised that she deserves to be loved and happy. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: alembic on May 16, 2013, 08:37:11 AM Sorry I am laughing to myself here... . But let us consider for just one moment: WHO is painting WHO "black?" I wonder if we can truly heal if we do not stop thinking of our exes as being "evil?" A disease has colonized them. And we didn't (1) cause it, we can't (2) control it and we can't (3) cure it. We will heal when we learn to feel compassion - DISpassionate Compassion! Hello DarkCurls54! I think your post is excellent. And I don't have any answers to the (many) questions you raise. I guess some of this comes from age old ideas about medicine and what it means when someone is physically ill. Various cultures have had different ideas over the generations, but nowadays, western cultures believe in pathogens that invade your body such as viruses, bacteria etc. What does it mean, though, when someone is 'mentally ill'? I have never thought this question (or any answers I've ever heard) was very well defined at all. It doesn't often indicate the presence of brain pathogens. Furthermore, what does it mean if relationship problems are caused or influenced by 'mental illness'? In whom does the 'mental illness' reside - one person, the other, both, neither, the relationship itself? Is it possible for otherwise mentally healthy people to have a toxic relationship, and for that particular combination of people and the relationship itself to be at fault? I simply don't know. I truly am coming to believe that part of the "mirroring" dance is that WE learn behaviors from THEM. Yeah. True. But I think that is how all humans behave to some extent. We are very good as a species at trying to adapt to our environment. If we happen to live in an environment where the 'rules' are this mirroring and emotional dancing, then we learn to adapt to it. Just as the BPD person probably learned to adapt to it in the beginning, from their original environment. My ex is NOT a "bad" person. And neither am I. We BOTH deserve love and understanding. Part of my problem in understanding all of this, is that once you start thinking about these issues, I'm not really sure how you can ever define a "bad person". You seem to be drawn to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a bad person, and that everyone that might seem outwardly to be bad by their actions is actually a victim of some underlying mental health condition, and therefore deserves love and understanding. Can that be true? I don't really know. I guess it's also a question of the existence of free will. If I do something bad, did I have a free choice to do it, and is therefore fair to be reprimanded/punished for making that choice, or was I driven by some underlying mechanism/condition, and therefore should be helped to make better choice in future? Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: DarkCurls54 on May 16, 2013, 10:48:05 AM Just to clarify... . I do believe that there are Bad, Evil people in the world. But B. isn't one of them.
Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: alembic on May 16, 2013, 11:20:12 AM Just to clarify... . I do believe that there are Bad, Evil people in the world. But B. isn't one of them. It's interesting that, for example, it is known that proportion of abnormalities in gender chromosomes combinations (e.g. XXY instead of XY) is far higher in prison populations than in the general population. Which does suggest that unusual physiology can sometimes lead to undesirable behaviour. Whether you might one day be able to trace all unpleasant behaviour back to some physiological cause is highly debatable, I would have thought. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Murbay on May 16, 2013, 12:16:32 PM DarkCurls, I completely agree too.
My ex-wife decided early on in the marriage that I needed therapy because there was something wrong with me and that was I wasn't attentive enough to her needs. She also made a point of letting me know that people "with my type of issue" don't seek help so it caught her totally off guard when I agreed to it. There were warning signs all over the relationship from the very beginning but I ignored those, each time being drawn back in and each time being made to feel it was my fault somehow. I managed to convince my ex-wife of going to therapy together but she got in there first and started individual appointments with a very sympathetic therapist. So when it came time for the joint sessions, I felt like I was being beaten from both sides at first. However, I stuck with it and needless to say, my ex-wife could not hide her illness in the sessions. The therapist concluded that he wanted to see me individually which was a confirmation to my wife that there was nothing wrong with her and all the issues were mine. The therapist on the other hand saw things very differently and the reason for seeing me was that it was much easier to work with me since I wasn't in denial about anything. It's what I now know as being the dance. The issues in our relationship was that due to my ex-wifes type, she would not take responsibility for anything and me on the other hand, took responsibility for everything. It's far easier to convince someone that not all the responsibility is theirs, rather than convince a BPD partner that they actually are responsible for some of the issues. The stronger I got, the angrier she became and the more she tried to exert that control back. She would call the therapist and hurl abuse at him, try and convince me that he was on "her side" and so forth. On the other hand, I learned that my personality is that of a fixer/rescuer and still in therapy now trying to get to the core of my issues and resolve those, learning to build better boundaries and not be drawn back in to the world of a BPD. For the longest time, my wife had me convinced I was the one with BPD and she was trying to rescue me and I will be honest in saying she almost had me convinced. Had it not been for a very observant therapist, I may very well have gone down that path because I will be honest and say that the effect mirroring had on both of us, it was very hard to distinguish between was was reality and what was imaginary. My ex-wife may never get help because she hides behind a narcissistic mask and surrounds herself with people who tell her how great she is and that all her issues are because of others. It is very defeating because I do love her so much and I desperately wanted things to work out between us. A month ago she decided that we should get divorced, not because of the issues in our relationship but because we love each other so much and what a great "joint decision" it would be. That would give me time to fix my issues and who knows? Liz Taylor and Richard Burton remarried several times. I was to be completely open and keep her informed of everything I was doing and if I did a good job of that, she might share with me what she is doing. 2 weeks ago, completely out of the blue, she started an argument after I had gone to bed over something random and how I never think about her needs. The end result, in a fit of anger she decided to sign the divorce papers the following morning and move out the day after. Reluctantly I agreed to do this but also explained that I didn't agree it was the right decision and that she would have to take responsibility for the consequences. We signed the papers 2 weeks ago and the following day I moved out. It was the most painful decision in my life and I'm still emotionally raw. As difficult as it has been, it has only been 1 week of no contact. There were e-mails at the start to remind me of my own faults but I ignored those, e-mails asking specific questions about my belongings etc... . I answered in a very neutral fashion which has angered her more because I'm not sharing. She is feeling angry right now at being abandoned and as such has told everybody that I walked out on her without any warning. I am the villain in so many eyes right now but I did exactly what was asked of me, when it was asked. In whole, I put an end to the dance. It has been heartbreaking but as DarkCurls rightly pointed out, my presence and being there gave her the outlet she needed so I had my part to play in what went on and I have my own responsibilities as a result of this. Because of who I am, the only thing I wanted to do was help her and this created the dance so I have my responsibilities in all of this too. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: eniale on May 16, 2013, 01:07:40 PM You won't move on until you realize that the person you thought she was is not the person she is. It was only your perception of her. No doubt, she has shown you who she really is. Remember that. Stop obsessing over the good times. You need to remember how she hurt you. I am not saying people with BPD are bad, they have a personality disorder, but they can wreck your life. Sounds like she does not want to let go, which is making it harder for you. I know it sounds harsh, but NC is really the best. Yesterday I came across a Valentine's Day card he sent me last year. He did not simply sign it "Love", he signed it "I Love You!" Instead of making me sad, I thought that this year (we broke up Feb. 7th) he probably wrote the same sentiment on a card to his new girlfriend, and probably next year it will be to another woman. Then I realized the sentiment he wrote on the card was not worth the price of the paper he wrote it on -- it means nothing -- although, and here is the hard part -- I truly believe he meant it when he said it. When we broke up & I reminded him he said he wanted us to belong to each other & spend the rest of our lives together, he said "I meant it when I said it." I really think for once he was being honest. Then he said "Things changed, I thought what we had was enough, she (new woman) bowled me over." (So you see, it was her fault, not his, or "the devil made me do it." But no 1 person will ever be ENOUGH for him. People like this lack a central core of truth; truth is a variable with them, what is true today is not true tomorrow. And despite their outrageous duplicity, they do not want to be "abandoned" & that is why she keeps contacting you. I hope you are able to free yourself from the spider's web she has spun. You deserve better than this!
Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Conundrum on May 16, 2013, 02:08:59 PM To crucify yourself for falling in love and subsequently developing goal oriented relationship expectations is a fruitless endeavor--it's the natural course of events.
But upon learning that the object of your affection is a pwBPD, those reasonable expectations in all good conscience should eventually be subsumed by questioning; what is the reasonably foreseeable outcome? So many pwBPD when they were little children suffered nightmarish incidents of abandonment and sexual abuse. Those are the empirical facts. That evidential horror show remains admissible throughout the course of their lives. They are of this world, and not of this world at the same time. As non's we prefer to avoid considering reasonably foreseeable outcomes, because it implies that our relationship with a pwBPD is unsustainable over the long-run. Like a dog chasing its tail, we spin in circles, throwing pennies into a wishing well, holding onto wishes that will never come true. Most pwBPD will never be able to conform to, or meet a non's reasonable expectations for a romantic relationship--it's probability. Becoming obsessed by the dream that you can beat the odds is the KISA death. You have to live life, not let it destroy you. Consequently, there are worse things in this world than admitting your own limitations and accepting the limitations of your loved one w/ BPD. We're all finite beings (at least materially) and some relationships are more finite than others. None of this is to imply that a non and a pwBPD cannot share an extraordinary connection, or a deep bond. It simply means that accepting what is reasonably foreseeable without rancor, shame and hate--will alleviate much personal misery as you move forward on your journey in life. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: TonyK on May 16, 2013, 03:17:10 PM Excellent post, Eniale!
Thank you very much. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: eniale on May 16, 2013, 11:09:29 PM For Scott 72 --
You say it hurts when you hear that many BPD exes return. I know it hurts when you have really loved someone, but a break up with a BPD person is a GIFT. I was devastated, traumatized, when my ex told me he had met someone else. The pain was the worst I have ever experienced. BUT 3 months later, I see it differently. It was all wrong from the start. I put up with WAY too much. He is a bottomless pit and nothing will ever be ENOUGH for him. He did me a favor by showing me who he really is. The man I fell in love with was only my PERCEPTION of him. The anger is lessening. I don't think he is a bad person, but a very, very, very damaged person. He knows right from wrong, but so does a person who is starving and sees a loaf of bread. People with BPD are not STABLE. Do you really want to go him, though I will NEVER forget the tremendous pain he caused. But want him back? That would only bring MORE heartache. Be careful what you pray for. Have you seen a therapist? Mine really helped me. I am slowly recovering... . NC for over 3 months. Do I still think maybe it's him when the phone rings? Yes. And memories of the love I had for him will always be painful. I accept that. We were together for over a year so I figure it will take that amount of time to fully recover. But I am sane enough to know he is not right for me. He even has some self-awareness. He said " You deserve a STABLE guy." To that, I say "Amen!" Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Clearmind on May 16, 2013, 11:25:55 PM The man I fell in love with was only my PERCEPTION of him. Best thing I have read today! You are absolutely right – we detach when we work towards changing the perception we have of our partners. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: eniale on May 17, 2013, 09:44:40 AM For Scott 72 -- You state that what hinders your attempts to move on is that you've heard many pwBPD return and you would "love that." I believe you need to stop thinking of all the "wonderful words we cling to" and start thinking about all the pain your ex caused you. This is NOT "being negative"; it is facing reality and not hanging on to the fantasy of the life you could have together. You can't have that with a person who has a personality disorder. You will never move on if you don't face reality. I am 3 mos. post B/U and making progress. I can even feel compassion & the beginning of forgiveness BUT know my ex is a very, very damaged person who broke my heart. Very doubtful, even if he agreed to therapy, that he is capable of changing. THAT is reality. When phone rings do I still wish it was him? Yes, sometimes I do, but it is getting better. Definitely know I DO NOT WANT MORE PAIN. I view him differently now: Again, have compassion, but know the hurt he is capable of causing & I have had enough. That is the road to sanity/reality for myself. You have to concentrate on yourself. You can never change another person. I loved my ex, but now realize I was just another meal on his food chain. His illness makes him incapable of thinking of others as his needs are so great. He is a bottomless pit. If you keep obsessing over her, you will never start to heal. Good luck. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Murbay on May 17, 2013, 12:01:21 PM Eniale is completely right but it doesn't make things any easier, in many ways it does make it harder.
I know in my case it's because I see through the illness and see a very vulnerable and pained person who was desperate to be loved and that I knew none of it was her fault. She didn't create the personality disorder and she shouldn't be punished because of it. It's that kind of thinking that keeps us attached and feeling unresolved in ourselves. My Therapist has been trying to get me to see, feel and understand the emotional pain I was in at the end of the relationship, to recognise and accept those feelings as should I go back, the same patterns would occur. It doesn't allow us to create the healthy boundaries we need for a healthy relationship as we would sacrifice those just to feel that wonderful feeling again. The thing he has been trying to get me to see is that in a healthy relationship, those feelings are always there and not just sporadic. The difficulty I have right now is that I still love my ex very deeply and in all honesty I would love nothing more than a healthy relationship with her. The reality is that won't ever happen because she is in denial about her illness and even if she was to accept it, it would take years of hard work and dedication to get her on the right path, and that would only be if she stuck to it. What you have to do is detatch from the person, separate their illness from who they are inside. Accept and be thankful for the times you had, learn from them but also understand that a healthy relationship with that person is not a possibility. You will eventually find someone who will appreciate those feelings and reciprocate. I am very much like you Scott, if my ex came back into my life tomorrow I would love nothing more than another chance. But I also have to be realistic and know the hurt I'm feeling right now, I would continue to feel and therefore it isn't healthy to me and also damaging to them. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Scott72 on May 18, 2013, 03:38:36 AM Eniale- thank you! Of course everything you say is correct- its just hard making ones heart listen! My therapist is great- and specialises in BPD, so a god send!
Murbay- it's terrible to want someone who you can't have! Not just cause they don't want it but because they can't be that person. I'm sure we will get there! Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: struggli on June 03, 2013, 10:41:02 PM Thank you to all who replied in this thread. I read all the replies, usually at work when I had a brief moment to sneak a peek.
It means a lot to me to read all of your replies. Even some of you newer members had some pretty darn wise things to say. In a way, I guess it's good I haven't had the time to reply. I did see my ex just by coincidental circumstances last week and I was still surprised that -- even after a year under the bridge -- I went into some sort of adrenalin/shock/panic/nausea/depression mode that messed me up most of the day. We didn't talk or even make eye contact. I was on the sidewalk and she pulled up to the light. I don't know if she even saw me. Re-reading your responses on here the evening after that incident helped me. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: winston72 on June 04, 2013, 10:07:35 AM I am a child of alcoholic parents and from an emotionally chaotic home. I went through some counseling (not really a therapeutic treatment regimen) when I was in my 20's and read extensively on what was then an emerging field of study on adult child of alcoholic parents. I thought I was reasonably aware of my brokenness and hurts. I had a long marriage that ended peacefully, two healthy adult children, a stable career... . and then stepped into a whirlwind, without realizing it. In this season of tornadoes, I now see myself as kind of a storm chaser. I saw the energy and drive toward it... . just had to gaze at it and feel it.  :)id not have the intuition to drive the other way... . somehow thought I would find life in that whirlwind of destruction.
That storm tore me apart. I am hoping and trusting, with the benefit of therapy, to reorganize and mend myself. I need to understand the woman and the relationship, but mostly because it exposes the parts of me that are broken, hurting, in need of repair or activation. My relationship really was a dance of two broken souls. I was aware of it, just not what it all really meant. As I reflect on it and read your post, I see similar behaviors by both parties. I was idealizing her, pouring myself into her, projecting my fantasies onto her at some phases on the r/s... . and then she would at other times. I suppose we took on the attributes of each other... . anyway, it was truly a dance. Thanks again for your post. Brilliant. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: charred on June 04, 2013, 04:33:26 PM Such a helpful post, Charred! Wow. I would like to hear more of your personal story. My reaction and reflection on your post is to continue to work on myself. My own inner need and turmoil is the source of the vulnerability and is the only aspect of this mess that I can influence. I am a child of alcoholic parents and from an emotionally chaotic home. I went through some counseling (not really a therapeutic treatment regimen) when I was in my 20's and read extensively on what was then an emerging field of study on adult child of alcoholic parents. I thought I was reasonably aware of my brokenness and hurts. I had a long marriage that ended peacefully, two healthy adult children, a stable career... . and then stepped into a whirlwind, without realizing it. In this season of tornadoes, I now see myself as kind of a storm chaser. I saw the energy and drive toward it... . just had to gaze at it and feel it. Did not have the intuition to drive the other way... . somehow thought I would find life in that whirlwind of destruction. That storm tore me apart. I am hoping and trusting, with the benefit of therapy, to reorganize and mend myself. I need to understand the woman and the relationship, but mostly because it exposes the parts of me that are broken, hurting, in need of repair or activation. My relationship really was a dance of two broken souls. I was aware of it, just not what it all really meant. As I reflect on it and read your post, I see similar behaviors by both parties. I was idealizing her, pouring myself into her, projecting my fantasies onto her at some phases on the r/s... . and then she would at other times. I suppose we took on the attributes of each other... . anyway, it was truly a dance. Thanks again for your post. Brilliant. Yeah it was... . I am like that (kidding.) My story sucks... . I fell for my girl when she was 19 and I was 22 in college... . and was hooked, was sure she was going to be my wife, we would have kids, etc. I did very well in college, started a minor ER center chain while in school, had 3 locations by graduation and thought I had the world by the tail... . then she abruptly dumped me without explanation... . and a few weeks later showed up hanging all over my next door neighbor. I was suicidal/homicidal... . had a gun in my hand and decided I just couldn't do anything with it... . so I resigned and gave away my interest in my clinics, packed my bags, left my family, friends and went as far away as I could and still be in the USA... . 1500 miles. And started over. Was a good decade before I felt anywhere near "over" her. I dated other people (most thought I was an emotional wreck)... . and eventually met and married a woman that reminded me of my pwBPD. I had moved closer to where I originally lived (still a few hundred miles away) and time passed, in 2009 I lost my job (in IT field)... . and had a hard time finding a job, kept trying all kinds of stuff, read that you should reach out to everyone you know, eventually that led to getting on FB. Once I was on, she contacted me and like an idiot I agreed to talk to her briefly on the phone so she could tell me something important... . her voice brought back 100% of the feelings I had... . it was amazing... . and horrible. 4 months later I was divorced... . and back in to the hellish relationship with her. We both tried, and recycled and fought and it went on like that for 3 1/2 yrs. It was so bad... . you would have to read my old posts... . it took a lot of them to go through it all. Anyway... . she stalked my exwife, caused trouble between my daughter and I and showed up Jodi Arias style early early in the morning on a couple holidays uninvited (when we were broken up)... . to seduce and destroy me... . she caused trouble and was just "popping in"... . some 200+ miles trip away from where she lived. I finally dumped her and have had about 500 calls/texts/emails... . since then, have changed my phone numbers, emails, looking in to moving. Forgot to mention she called me over 30 times in one day when we were split... . and it cost me the best job I have had since the medical clinics... . so ... . she has devastated my life a few times and it led me to ask one big question... . why after 25+ years... . would I give a minutes time to her, let alone feel like I had to see her? And after much digging I came up with my theory/conclusion that I wrote out... . and for me it explains the deep hurting, as I have dated a lot of women, even been married... . and nothing compared on the devastation side to her. Worst part for me is I feel like a super-chump. I did have the world by the tail at one point... . and didn't see her for what she was and just walked away from everything else that mattered to me. Spent a few decades getting my life back on track and went for a second train wreck with her... . so I guess I got experience... . which is what you get when you don't get what you wanted. Now I see her for what she is, disordered and so lacking in integrity I couldn't be with her if my life depended on it... . and in a very real sense it does. She seemed phony when she acted nice, a bit off when she was clingy, and unbelievably real and genuine when hating... . it was a vitriolic unlimited hate that I have never seen in any other human being and hope never to see again. I was fascinated by the Jodi Arias trial, as the parallels with her were so close... . that it scared/scares me. I not only could see my exBPDgf doing the same thing, I think given a chance she would enjoy it. So... . that is more of my story, now it is a matter of moving on, I am done with her, I have dated others and found that if there is much chemistry... . electricity ... . it means they are trouble, big trouble. I am trying to resign myself to living with genuine intimacy/love and not the adrenaline rush that went with the pwBPD. I think it was life on the edge... . cheating death almost. I was on anti-anxiety meds and had hives as one point... . not normal for sure. Hope that helped a bit. Charred Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: struggli on June 04, 2013, 09:40:28 PM I thought things were perfect, I felt very secure, happily ever after, and then she started being indifferent and/or pushing me away and starting to behave badly. So, *I* became needy/neurotic/fearful of abandonment. I didn't know why she'd suddenly change, so I wanted to put everything back and I tried desperately to do so. Even when she was driving me to near panic/dismay I couldn't comprehend the changes I was witnessing. I became more and more needy, always wanting to know where she was, practically stalking my own girlfriend. At some point I didn't know what was true anymore. Was she really with her sister? Was she really at work late? She sure smells like whiskey, but she swears to me she didn't drink.
She berated me for my increasing "neediness." I was confident and content when I met her, but by the end I felt like a doormat, a helpless child. When we went to therapy, she told the therapist I "always needed to be with (her)." The less I trusted her, the more "needy" and controlling I became. I guess I should have just let her go if I didn't trust her anymore. But I couldn't accept that I was seeing this complete change that seemed largely without cause. Yes, I made a few mistakes, I upset her a few times and made a couple of poor decisions (and went above and beyond to make amends), but it didn't feel like her punishment from her (mostly silent treatment and coldness) fit the "crimes." I'm still a bit confused about it now. I just can't accept it. How could someone fake it for so long? Or, if it wasn't faking, how could it change so rapidly? Yeah, I know, it's a disorder, but I just still can't let it sink in. I'm still in love with a girl that was great to me from July 2010 to Nov 2010; May 2011 to Dec 2011; January 2012 to Feb 2012. Those were the months of bliss. The rest of the time she had either left me, decided she was still in love with her ex, decided that she wanted to be alone, ignored me for days at a time (even if I saw her in public though supposedly we were still together), basically a gray area of rollercoasterness. It's those months of bliss that I still want back. I'm glad I wrote it out like that. I see it a little more clearly just writing out those dates. It's been three years since I met her (July 2010) and if I add up the months of bliss, that's just a little over a year of great times. I told my brother I feel like my brain has been scrambled. Maybe it's still healing. I really wouldn't have thought it would be a year later and I'd still be thinking about her every day. I guess I haven't accepted "the hater." Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Clearmind on June 04, 2013, 09:54:47 PM Yes, I think the only thing that differed for me was I thought things were perfect, I felt very secure, happily ever after, and then she started being indifferent and/or pushing me away and starting to behave badly. So, *I* became needy/neurotic/fearful of abandonment. You relived your own abandonment fears as your ex pushed you further away. Its possible you still miss her because you have not processed this part of your history as yet. I didn't know why she'd suddenly change, so I wanted to put everything back and I tried desperately to do so. Even when she was driving me to near panic/dismay I couldn't comprehend the changes I was witnessing. I became more and more needy, always wanting to know where she was, practically stalking my own girlfriend. At some point I didn't know what was true anymore. Was she really with her sister? Was she really at work late? She sure smells like whiskey, but she swears to me she didn't drink. Yep, because the roller coaster was addictive. You craved the highs after having a low. You were both so enmeshed through mirroring you could not see straight. I was confident and content when I met her, but by the end I felt like a doormat, a helpless child. When we went to therapy, she told the therapist I "always needed to be with (her)." The less I trusted her, the more "needy" and controlling I became. I guess I should have just let her go if I didn't trust her anymore. But I couldn't accept that I was seeing this complete change that seemed largely without cause. Yes, I made a few mistakes, I upset her a few times and made a couple of poor decisions (and went above and beyond to make amends), but it didn't feel like her punishment from her (mostly silent treatment and coldness) fit the "crimes." You needed to be needed and she couldn’t provide you with that. Again this stems from within you – before you met her. I'm still a bit confused about it now. I just can't accept it. You won’t accept it until you change your perception of her. She is your ultimate fantasy and it was not real. How could someone fake it for so long? Or, if it wasn't faking, how could it change so rapidly? She wasn’t faking it. This is the pattern of the disorder. Intense love followed by intense shame and pain. You are scapegoat and eventually blamed. BPD is a blame and shame disorder. The end was not your fault. Maybe you need to start to process the FOG that is keeping you hooked. I told my brother I feel like my brain has been scrambled. Maybe it's still healing. I really wouldn't have thought it would be a year later and I'd still be thinking about her every day. I guess I haven't accepted "the hater." You haven’t accepted you! You still possibly blame yourself for the relationship demise. You are hanging onto being placed on that pedestal. _____ What was your parents relationship like? Relationship with siblings? What was the dynamic at home? What role did you play in the household? Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: struggli on June 04, 2013, 10:48:29 PM How do I process the FOG?
You're right. I do blame myself for the demise. I still try to figure out what I could have done differently. I still try to figure out how I could have kept that love coming my way. My parents? I think they were both happier once all their kids grew up and moved out. I was scared of my dad til my young adulthood. And my mom was the nagging mother. I can see the pros and cons of their parenting styles. Mostly the cons. But maybe I'm just negative this year. :) Siblings? There was a large age gap, I being the youngest, so I was sort of on my own. They moved out when I was a kid and even when we all lived together, we had some fun times, but they mostly were with their friends and excluded me. Mom-religious/moral enforcer Dad-foreman of labor/punisher Brother 1 = Hardly got to know him. He was in college when I was in elementary school. I've gotten to know him pretty well in recent years. It was kind of weird initially. We moved in together when I was in my mid-20s and I felt like I was with a stranger who was supposedly in my family. Brother 2 = Spent the most time with me in my childhood years, defended me from dad, and we sort of mirrored each other -- had the same interests in hobbies. He got married and moved out when I was about 13 or 14 and that was kind of the end of that relationship. I just realized -- he was the only one I really had a happy sort of bond with. Brother 3 = The one that picked on me. The abusive brother. Now that we're older I feel like we relate to each other quite a bit more. Most of my relationships with them now, except Brother 1, are pretty limited. I just don't really maintain much contact with them. I don't resent them, I just don't feel a connection I guess. My role? Hmmm... . The smart one. The one most likely to be successful. Also, the most powerless, being the youngest, and probably the most sensitive one. I was the one that worried about the pets. I was the one that got sad when someone would kick the cat. I connected with the dogs/cats more than with my family, I think. This is kind of a tangent, but it just popped into my head. The more I have been working in my new job, the smaller the world seems. Everyone knows everybody and it's starting to seem like there's this six degrees of separation thing with my ex. I have to bite my tongue at least a few times a day because I hear someone's name mentioned and it pisses me off. The truth is a bunch of rich guys that "own" this town were always after my ex (probably not just her, but it sure seemed that way) and I felt, to some degree, inadequate when she'd talk about them, or when I'd see one of them put is hand on her bare back where her shirt was low cut, or some guy that owns a famous restaurant would send her a text. So, I hold a lot of anger toward those pricks, but also felt like I wasn't good enough for her in that regard -- at least toward the end of the relationship. She wanted to be rich, but I felt rich when I was with her. Sappy, but true. At first I felt liberated by my job with all the human interaction I was getting, now I just feel like I'm back in the swamp of emotional triggers. Every time I see one of these ass's restaurants or billboards or hear their names mentioned I think about how they disrespected me (one guy sent her a text that she should let him know when she's ready to break up with me and get with him). I'm just angry with how f--king entitled to her they seemed to behave and how she never really set a boundary to stop it. I guess her hitty boundaries didn't help. Or maybe I am just too uptight. I guess billionaires wanting her isn't helping with her mental health or making life any less confusing for her, but I guess I shouldn't care anymore. Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: Clearmind on June 04, 2013, 11:07:40 PM How do I process the FOG? You're right. I do blame myself for the demise. I still try to figure out what I could have done differently. I still try to figure out how I could have kept that love coming my way. There is a reason why we enter these relationship struggli – as cliché as it sounds, growth comes from the pain if you are willing to feel the vulnerability. My parents? I think they were both happier once all their kids grew up and moved out. I was scared of my dad til my young adulthood. And my mom was the nagging mother. I can see the pros and cons of their parenting styles. Mostly the cons. But maybe I'm just negative this year. :) Consider not dismissing your feelings struggli. This is important. We all learn our relationship skills from our parents. Sounds like you may have walked on eggshells a little as a kiddo – feel free to correct me – I’m just poking around here. Its possible you aim to please – be the “good boy” so as to not disappoint – yourself or your parents. Siblings? There was a large age gap, I being the youngest, so I was sort of on my own. They moved out when I was a kid and even when we all lived together, we had some fun times, but they mostly were with their friends and excluded me. Me too struggli. I was alone in my world as a child and longed for acceptance. I longed to be loved, heard and understood. My father and my brother did not get on. My Bro moved out of the house when I was 12 – pretty formative years. I didn’t feel I had a protector. He abandoned me and I felt like I faced the abuse alone. Mom-religious/moral enforcer Dad-foreman of labor/punisher Brother 1 = Hardly got to know him. He was in college when I was in elementary school. I've gotten to know him pretty well in recent years. It was kind of weird initially. We moved in together when I was in my mid-20s and I felt like I was with a stranger who was supposedly in my family. Brother 2 = Spent the most time with me in my childhood years, defended me from dad, and we sort of mirrored each other -- had the same interests in hobbies. He got married and moved out when I was about 13 or 14 and that was kind of the end of that relationship. I just realized -- he was the only one I really had a happy sort of bond with. Brother 3 = The one that picked on me. The abusive brother. Now that we're older I feel like we relate to each other quite a bit more. Do you see a pattern of relating here? Most of my relationships with them now, except Brother 1, are pretty limited. I just don't really maintain much contact with them. I don't resent them, I just don't feel a connection I guess. How do you feel about that? Have you made peace with it? Brothers are pretty important to each other struggli My role? Hmmm... . The smart one. The one most likely to be successful. Also, the most powerless, being the youngest, and probably the most sensitive one. I was the one that worried about the pets. I was the one that got sad when someone would kick the cat. I connected with the dogs/cats more than with my family, I think. As kids we play a role – usually its assigned by our parents – do you see how maybe you are still playing this role as an adult and carrying around some faulty beliefs that you must be dependable to be of value, that you must fix to be of value and that you cannot allow yourself the space to have needs and that maybe you were not permitted as a child to have needs --- therefore now you are unsure how to process these emotions about your ex and the failure of the relationship. This is kind of a tangent, but it just popped into my head. The more I have been working in my new job, the smaller the world seems. Yep I hear you. When we narrow our field of vision/focus we become hyper-focussed on the negative. Open up your field of view – walk in nature, walk along the ocean – you may need to reground yourself and open your horizon a bit. Everyone knows everybody and it's starting to seem like there's this six degrees of separation thing with my ex. I have to bite my tongue at least a few times a day because I hear someone's name mentioned and it pisses me off. The truth is a bunch of rich guys that "own" this town were always after my ex (probably not just her, but it sure seemed that way) and I felt, to some degree, inadequate when she'd talk about them, or when I'd see one of them put is hand on her bare back where her shirt was low cut, or some guy that owns a famous restaurant would send her a text. So, I hold a lot of anger toward those pricks, but also felt like I wasn't good enough for her in that regard -- at least toward the end of the relationship. She wanted to be rich, but I felt rich when I was with her. Sappy, but true. When we lack self worth we compare ourselves to others. Work on your worth and what you bring to your life and others. Your inner critic is napalming you. Some childhood conditioning in there. You are valuable because you are struggli – you don’t have to “do” stuff to be of value. Our lives are not a resume that we read from – its not what we do – its who we are as people. At first I felt liberated by my job with all the human interaction I was getting, now I just feel like I'm back in the swamp of emotional triggers. Every time I see one of these ass's restaurants or billboards or hear their names mentioned I think about how they disrespected me (one guy sent her a text that she should let him know when she's ready to break up with me and get with him). I'm just angry with how f--king entitled to her they seemed to behave and how she never really set a boundary to stop it. I guess her ty boundaries didn't help. Or maybe I am just too uptight. I guess billionaires wanting her isn't helping with her mental health or making life any less confusing for her, but I guess I shouldn't care anymore. Firstly, BPDs are boundary-less. And the men around her were too. Thankfully you can see how unacceptable this is. What type of man goes after a woman who is with someone else? A man who has very little Respect for themselves. You are making it out to be your fault or that maybe you don’t earn enough, not rich enough, not good enough….ring any bells? Title: Re: 3.5 months NC. Almost a year apart. I still miss her. Post by: seeking balance on June 04, 2013, 11:35:41 PM How do I process the FOG? Cry... . grieve the reality of the situation. Your BPDex was simply a bandaid for your core wounds. All children want love and acceptance. When parents use children for their own emotional needs rather than parent and unconditionally love and support their child, the child will adapt and learn to be accepted for doing things rather than for being enough just because they exist. Grief takes time... . you are not only grieving the BPD, but your lost childhood and innocence. Let yourself feel the pain, lean into it so you can move through it. There is no short cut for this process once we start down the path. I compare it to the movie the Matrix... . once you take the red pill there is no going back. Your core wound is open, no way to hide it. Cry, focus on reality and facts as much as this hurts... . it is the way through. Peace, SB |