BPDFamily.com

Saw my therapist yesterday... .  as an ACoA (Adult Child of an Alcoholic) I became the Fixer... .  not an alcoholic.  I couldn't fix my stepsons heroin addiction... .  couldn't cure my wifes cancer and realize I cant fix my ex BPD/NPD because there is no cure.  Only thing I can fix is me... .  that is what I CHOOSE to focus on! 

At the end of the day, I choose to not make excuses for this disorders behavior as unconscious behavior.  Anyway you want to cut its wrong and bad behavior when your on the receiving end.  The dual... .  sometimes triple life she led with men could not have been pulled off unconsciously... . she knew it was wrong... .  why hide it from family... .  she knew someone was gonna get hurt... .  planned her activities with all of us in a deceitful, manipulative manner.

OK... .  IMHO after doing boat loads of research and reading many different POV on whether or not BPDs/NPDs/Hsitrionics are aware of their behavior or not here's where I landed.  I believe they know exactly what they are doing when they hurt people in a relationship... .  didn't say intentionally... .  but they do know the behavior is bad... .  why do they spend so much time trying to hide what they are doing... .  because they know it is wrong.  Yes they can tell right from wrong.  Example - Can you tell me that the day my exBPD/NPD fiance asked me to go to her best friends wedding with her while she was engaged to her other boyfriend and spend the night with me... .  we took separate vehicles so on the way to my house (1/2 hour) who do you think was on the phone with... .  right... .  her fiance.  How do I know this.  I had access to her cell phone records(she actually gave it to me).  So... .  here is what I believe... .  They are in total control of what they are doing.  There is no organic factor or deficit in self control that causes what they do. Their acts are willful and premeditated. They comprehend the difference between right and wrong, appropriate and inappropriate, truth and lies, reality and fantasy.  Thats how they can hold down professional jobs, get involved in the community etc.  They know what they are doing and sometimes enjoy it... .  I saw it several times in her eyes when she was caught with her hand in the cookie jar.  My last confrontation/trying to be rational with her after i saw her with her old/new fiance while still seeing me for sex was amazing.  I asked her if he would like to know his fiance was having crazy sex behind his back for the last 6 months... . she had an evil grin on and said "He's a big boy".  I saw poor enjoyment in her face that she could play two guys for so long.

There is no right or wrong for them as long as they are "taking care of themselves."  So I think yes, they know it is wrong, but it is superseded by what is first on their agenda:  taking care of themselves.  I always saw my ex as "opportunistic" (guess I did not want to label him a "user" but it helps me understand (not condone) his outrageous duplicity by seeing his own perception of himself as a bottomless pit.  He will do anything to fill it up.  Last Christmas, after spending the day under the roof of my relatives, we were going to relax at a lovely hotel.  It had been a glorious day, he said it was the best Christmas he ever had.  While I lovingly waited for him in bed, directly in front of me he sat at the desk searching his laptop for a Christmas e-mail from his new lover (of course he waited another month to tell me about her) and no doubt, also lovingly e-mailed her back.  That is beyond my comprehension.  Wrong, wrong, wrong... .  BUT he was "taking care of himself."  I once jokingly said "you know how to take care of yourself" & he replied "If I don't who will?"  No shame, no morals, no conscience.  Morally flawed beyond redemption.  Do not expect such people to think as you do.  they do NOT.

Hey flynavy,

From my non-professional, but very close (personal) relationships and 9 months in the aftermath, opinion,  NPD differs from BPD in an infinite fashion.  What you describe is someone with no apparent moral compass, hence NPD.  My wife has been wracked by guilt and the lies, deception, anger, justifications, blaming, etc. is to escape the terrible guilt feelings, the guilt feelings are another form of emotional pain,any form of emotional pain is terribly amplified, her actions to escape the guilt cause her more guilt - she has a hellish cycle within her that I doubt I could live with and the destructive cycle spins outward and catches those closest to her.  And yes, she still has responsibility because she does see some of what she does.  The transience of her feelings and because she does not understand how others feel/think is one of the contributors to her issues.  I struggle to hold on to my knowledge of BPD and my own issues in the midst of powerful emotions inside me.  Whereas her NPD mother simply has no remorse.  She is motivated to keep on 'getting' what she believes she is 'entitled' to from others, and lies, deception, etc. have no internal affect on her that anyone has ever noticed in her behaviors no matter how long they have known her or how close to her they have been.  And the outward behaviors seem at first blush to be the same, but became painfully clear with time, experience, and research/knowledge - if I had the patience I suppose I could write a novel about the differences and how subtly the differences seem to be.  Some actions are manifestly clear and different (one of many examples): 'dumping' her adult daughter by a dumpster in the middle of the night, her daughter's possessions in garbage bags in the nearby ditch, no money, no transport, no means of support, nothing.  Then her mother drives back to the house her daughter used to own because the mother moved herself in, insisted on additions made to the house and guilted her daughter into signing the whole house over to her.

BPD's do stuff to escape their pain, just make it stop.  NPD's do stuff to 'get'.  There is a LOT to BPD and the underlying, twisted up mechanisms.  As far as BPD/NPD, this is the overwhelming difference and predominant pattern (after all, not many things are truly black and white) that I have witnessed, been subject to for years, and read about from many researchers in the psych fields.  (the fundamental  difference I describe is my words supported by the research/personal experiences I have read)

I believe NPD's create BPD's out of their children by abusing the very moral compass that the NPD does not possess.

Jason519... .  well said... .  I did do some research on histrionics as well.  My ex exhibited behaviors of all three of these disorders... .  you made some very valid/interesting points. 

For me though the epiphany is no matter what one of these or combination there of she may be, I have realized it is a disorder she has, I cannot nor want to try and fix it... .  and I am now focusing on being well, having/savoring the wonderful memories of my 32 year marriage to the love of my life who you all know succumbed to Ovarian Cancer 3 1/2 years ago, and moving forward with a very tough lesson learned in this new world of relationships.  I am now armed with very sensitive detectors regarding these disorders, will always follow my heart/gut regarding suspicious behavior/yellow flags... .  which in my experience always turned out to be red flags... .  but now having the wisdom to be aware of them and the courage to know what to do... .  its very hard to think with the appropriate head when the seductress is so damn good looking and over the top in bed though... .  but I now know the consequences!