BPDFamily.com

A lot of what I read on here and on other sites seems to be suggesting that all BPD r/s are doomed. Sooner or later anyway. No matter what.

My dBPDh has left AGAIN. Yesterday he was overwhelmed and confused. He cycled from angry to depressed about a week ago. The last five days I thought he was slowly cycling out of depression, but somehow today he got himself right back to angry.  And he packed most of his clothes and personal effects and left while I was at work.

Here's my question - I don't know that he's completely painted me black. Or maybe he doesn't actually verbalize it?  He doesn't SAY he's afraid he will leave me, but I know he's afraid I will. He's said that everyone who loves him does. He doesn't constantly blame me for his issues. He does recognize they're HIS issues. I'm just the one who bears the brunt and that he projects onto. He does still say he loves me, even today after he left, but worries its not enough.  So is there any chance for success?  Or should I just give up now and try and move forward.

I don't even want to post on the Leaving Board. I'm still committed to trying to save our r/s if such a thing is possible. And I know it takes two; I can't do it alone. We can't do it by ourselves even, the two of us, we need help.

Is my hope just denial?

I guess it depends on how you define your terms. What does 'success' in this r/s look like to you? What are you hoping for?

There is a thread here for 'success stories' - since there are posts on there that must mean there is a chance. I think it very much depends on the individuals involved and what your expectations are. I'm right here with you on the 'Staying' board so I must have hope too, right? :)

Arabella,

I've thought long and hard over the past three horrible weeks what it is I want out of the relationship. Ideally I'd like things to get back to the way they were. Realistically I know that's impossible. Impossible because of his issues. Impossible because of my issues with him after years of this push and pull.

So what do I want?  I want us both to be committed to working on the relationship to our fullest ability. I don't expect equality. I know he can't deliver on that now. Or ever. I'll always have to give more, do more. So I want him to TRY, really honestly give it his best shot. And I believe we need professional help with that.

Right now I love him and I'm still 100% committed to him. He's not 100% committed to me though. He's 100% committed to himself and I recognize that's one of the small steps in the awfully long, rocky road to recovery. I'm afraid every passing day he will disassociate further and detach himself from me more and more.

A big part of me hopes that he will cycle round back to me. By then it might be too late, but I don't really believe that based on the way I feel today.

  It's very hard to base a long term commitment on how we feel on any given day - especially living with a pwBPD. You really have to look at the bigger picture. How were things before this latest 3 week cycle of dysregulation? I'm sorry, I don't know much of your backstory. How long have you been together? When he is more stable, are the things you need possible? i.e. Is he usually capable of meeting you part way? Would be be receptive to the idea of getting help?

Your dBPDh's behaviour and verbal cues sound a lot like my dBPDh's. I think he's back to himself again, after about 5 loong months, and I'm hoping that we can talk through some of this stuff and get some help. I've come to understand that it's not "we" who needs help so much as each of us individually needs to make changes. I've started already, now I'm waiting to see if he will. It's... .  hard.

How were things before this past three weeks?  I'll try and keep this short.

March 2010 we met and started dating.

Great times. Spending a lot of time together. Awesome.

August 2010 - first break up. Initiated by him. I had no clue why. I asked why?  I cried. I begged. Silent treatment for three weeks. NC I guess.

September 2010 - reconciliation. Initiated by him. Second chance granted by me.

Back to normal or so I thought. Travelled together. Talked about our future. Great. Awesome.

February 2011 - second break up. Initiated by him. Again I had no clue. Cried. Begged. Silent treatment for five days. NC. 

February 2011 - reconciliation. Mostly from my refusal to accept his leaving.

Realize now I was just delaying the inevitable.

March 2011 - third break up. Again out of nowhere. He went NC. I told myself to do the same. I did. After a month he started sending me half-arsed apology emails. I kept NC for another two months.

June 2011 - reconciliation. Because he had been diagnosed with BPD and I believed armed with this new knowledge he could make a change.

Again great times. Odd hiccup along the way, but nothing major.

April 2012 - wedding.

May -December 2012 - great. Nothing out of the ordinary. Adjustment to living together, blended family etc.

December 2012 - infidelity suspicion comes to the surface. He starts violating my privacy. Rages escalate to every other week.

January 2013 - he leaves emotionally but wants to work things out.

February 2013 - we begin couples therapy and we together and separately start therapy. It helps.

April 2013 - he stops going to T. We go on anniversary trip. He begins to fracture while we are away. Due to lingering doubts of my fidelity (imaginary actions but real feelings), fears of abandonment by me and his daughter (refuses to admit she's 13 and growing up) etc etc etc.  this results in two days in another country stuck in a hotel room where he can't indulge his only instinct to conflict (leave). We talk (or he blames, I try to pacify) for two days. No communication all the way home.  He drops me at our house in the middle of the night and leaves. Five days NC. we get together and talk. He thinks he wants a divorce. Six days of very LC. we talk again. He's confused and overwhelmed but wants to work it out. Five days of him being home that's civil, friendly, at times intimate.

That brings us to yesterday. He goes silent. Calls and says he has to go away and think. Doesn't know what he wants. Can't do this anymore. Says he thinks he knows how his brother felt when he committed suicide. Says he doesn't want to alienate his D13 like his mother did him. He NEVER talks about his brother (only sibling who's been gone 17 years) or his mother (who he hasn't spoken to in 20+ years).

Today I call while at work and he tells me he is at our house doing laundry and noticed I hadn't paid two of "his" bills so we need to split the money. He withdraws half of our checking account to open another account. He already opened it two weeks ago but doesn't know I know that. I get home from work and he's gone; along with most of his clothes etc.

Ok that wasn't short. But yes when he's stable he does better about communicating his feelings before they really escalate, he acknowledged he needed help, he can meet me part way. And I would have said that he was that way earlier this year. But now I think he wasn't stable at all during that time, he was fighting those illogical thought and doubts in his head the whole time. He didn't show me that until it had become too much though. He found "evidence" to make his illogical feelings seem logical. 

And I've made changes too, especially in the way I respond to him when he's irrational or in his dark place as he calls it. I don't react. I'm not defensive. I'm empathetic. It's so so so hard but I know I have to be the productive one.

So even though everyone assures me he will cycle back to me (history says so), I'm not so sure this time. This has built up inside him for months and even though his issues aren't even about me (brother's suicide, mother's abandonment, ex-wife's infidelity while pregnant with their D) ... .  When he looks around for someone to project onto, there's only me.

He doesn't have friends.  He has acquaintances / work friends in other cities. He has a lot of FB friends. But none here. None close - either geographically or emotionally.   

That's it.

There are two defintions of sucess.

1 pwBPD undergoes successful treatment and reaches a stage where BPD are no longer present. BUT you will both be different people at the end of it, and even if a "cure" is reached you may no longer have anything in common and RS may still fail.

2 You both work together and come to a tenable understanding whereby BPD behavior is still present but you have "managed" the RS better so the extremes of conflict are minimal. RS is dysfunctial but not destructive with the regular up and downs of a normal relationship (which are rarely ideal anyway). But there is enough there for you to have a generally enjoyable RS together.

This site is about aiming for No. 2 as that is the one you can work on. You cannot make No 1 happen that is out of your control.

I was in the pits but am getting closer to No2 all the time, at least close enough to know that leaving is not on the options table.

Wave rider - I am definitely looking for #2 to happen. #1 has never been a possibility as far as I'm concerned.

I have no answers for you. I am living something similar myself, although my partner's behavior is much more passive than your H's. She's not angry, but she has removed herself from the relationship and in many ways, from my life. So I just want to say that I understand the pain and the confusion of loving someone who is mentally ill and ambivalent. I will send loving and healing energy to the both of us!

Mockingbird, you have perfectly summed up my own fears, ambivalence and confusion surrounding my own relationship.  I've been with mine for 10 years, and it's been really bad for only a very short time.  But her behavior is very similar to that of your H. I really have no answers. I guess every person and every relationship has its own history and its own journey. What I will share is what I have done for myself. I identify as a codependent, so take this with a grain of salt if you do not make this claim for yourself. I attend Codependents Anonymous meetings every single week, at least one per week, and I have a sponsor in this fellowship. It is helping me work on myself. I can see that in my R/S at least, even if my partner wasn't mentally ill, I have big changes to make in my life. As they say, the courage to change the things that I can. And also, detaching from my partner and releasing her to her own journey of healing. My partner is in unbelievable, unbearable, soul-crushing pain right now. I have spent the last 10 years trying to save and fix her. It caused much additional pain and damage to me, and also to her. It robbed us both of our dignity and self-respect, stole our financial health and undermined both of our selfhoods. But it is never too late to change and the only way I can do that is to focus on myself. I am being told that to love someone else well, you must first love yourself well. I am learning the truth of these words. I hope this helps in some small way.

Cult - thanks for your words.  I suspect I have some level of so-dependency too; otherwise why would I want to stay through all of this?  I know I also have:

* an enormous fear of failure; if the marriage ends, regardless of the facts I will feel I have failed

* an enormous need to feel loved; maybe everyone feels like this, but I didn't feel loved as a child

* an enormous urge to "fix" things (see fear of failure)

I am trying to practice radical acceptance.  I just learned about this a couple of weeks ago.  But accepting he is who he is is not really making it hurt any less.

Mockingbird - I am aiming for waverider's #2 as well. In fact, I think that when H isn't in a state of dissociation that's what I've got. We've been together for 12 years and most of that has been quite 'successful'. My H went off the deep end around December 2012 and just started coming back around mid-April.

Is your H on any medications? It's not that I think drugs are a cure (definitely not), but an adjustment to my H's prescriptions made a HUGE difference for him. He was really depressed and that, combined with the BPD, sent him into a downward spiral that he couldn't get out of. Your H sounds depressed as well (e.g. talking about knowing how his brother felt before he committed suicide - that's a red-flag )

I have codependency issues as well. I am doing a lot of work on myself and it's really helped a lot. I know I'm going to need the tools from this site, as well as the detachment that comes from helping myself out of codependency, in order to move forward in a healthy way. I've been attending Codependents Anon group meetings as well and I've found them very useful for me. Just ordering one of the books recommended on this site as well - Codependent No More, by Melody Beattie. Maybe check it out for yourself? A lot of what you said in your last post sounds like it might be helped by learning a bit about codependency (even if you aren't fully codependent)! :) 

Radical acceptance is a slow evolution, it takes quite a while to get past saying it and truly thinking it. Often it has to come hand in hand with deeper changes. It is not really a tool more a deeper inner shift in thinking which is not as sudden as a light bulb moment. It is a huge weight off your shoulder once it starts to form, a significant turning point for you. It does help with a lot of co dependency issues and in particular reactive thinking

Arabella - I agree that I think we have #2 when he is not disassociating.  The fact that he has somewhere he can quickly and easily retreat to is a double-edged sword for me.  On the one hand I know he needs to get away to think, clear his head, process.  On the other hand I can't ever forget what I read on here one day, that with BPD due to object constancy issues, absence makes the heart grow colder.  Im always afraid that if I am not there to remind him of our commitment, he will easily forget it, or convince himself he is better off without it.  I'd almost rather the silent treatment with him in the house than out of it.  That sounds crazy as I write it but its true.

My H is not on any medications - purely due to his job.  There is an approved list of medications he can take and still keep his job, and that list is VERY short, and there are no anti-depressants or anything on it.  His psychiatrist did suggest fish oil and another supplement that I can't remember the name of right now, and he took them while we were in MC and T together and they seemed to take the edge off.  But he stopped.  Probably two months ago.

I truly believe he is depressed.  I have heard that his brother struggled with depression his whole life.  I have also suspected that his mother did (does) too based on people's account of her behavior.  There is a long history of mood disorders, suicide and addiction in his family.  Nobody addressed his brother's issues that I know of.  Nobody talked about how it affected them after he died.  My H never addressed his issues with his mother.  Or his exw.  and now here it all is ... .  exploding around me.

I would have said that my H went off the deep end three weeks ago, but thats when he SHOWED me what he was feeling.  I think this has been building since mid-December 2012.  We have several short bursts bwteeen then and now, but from what he says now, he has been feeling this way for six months, but never showing it to me, or at least keeping it hidden for the most part.  That's a huge issue for me - its telling me that I cannot trust what he shows me / tells me when things seem good.

Now I am afraid it really is too late.  He's so far gone that he cannot get himself back.

ONLY glimmer of hope - he did talk to his Psychiatrist last night.  She called him.  He then texted me and told me that she told him to tell me what he has told her - that under no circumstances would he kill himself, that he has seen what that can do to a family and he wouldn't do it.  The grain of salt I attach to that hope is this - 1) he told me because she told him to, and 2) when he says family I think he is thinking of his dad and his D13, not me and my D10.

I'll definitely check out the CoD stuff you mentioned - thanks

WaveRider - yes, I am working on radical aceptance every day.  Trying really hard.  I'm actually pretty good at it I think when we are face to face.  But on the phone, not so much.  When I am alone?  All those hurt and why me feelings rise back to the surface and I feel sorry for myself and angry at him, but they are soon replaced with just wanting to help.  So perhaps the part I haven;t gotten yet, accepting that I cannot help ... .  or maybe I can?  Being there and being supportive has got to help, right?

There are two sides to Acceptance. You hear a lot about applying it to your partner, but you also have to apply it to yourself. To accept what you can do and what you can't. Accept that you can only do your best. The fact that you are here shows you are ahead of the normal in care factor. Accept that your best will only help, it is unlikely to be enough to cure or fix, there will always be a shortfall.

You can only create a stable platform of support, real change has to come from within your partner, you cannot control this, or feel a sense of failure if all does not go as well as you would hope.

There is always hope as long as they are still alive and kicking, and somebody actually cares that they are. Many pwBPD dont even have that.

I actually find the object constancy issue works the opposite way that you are thinking (I previously thought the exact same way). When my H is away he forgets to project on to me. He forgets that I'm the supposed problem. It's so bizarre. I'm guessing, but I think in his mind the 'problem' is whatever is closest at hand. He feels bad all the time, wife is around all the time, ergo wife is the cause of him feeling bad!  So, when is is away, he still feels bad but I'm not there... .  Suddenly I am not the problem. It must be something else. He comes back. Then he forgets again. Rinse. Repeat. *sigh*

There must be a loophole in that job qualification. There is no job on this earth that is performed better by someone who is suicidal, or delusional, or has some other serious mental illness. I don't want to tell you what to do, I'm not living your experience, but I've got to say - there's no job worth having if it ruins your entire life. If this job's medical restrictions are going to end up costing your H is life (literally, or in the event of all of his relationships breaking down, figuratively) then it's just not worth it. A new job is easier to deal with than a total mental collapse, no?

That's what I am thinking.  His Psychiatrist told me yesterday that his illness is like this black hole that he thinks everything gets sucked into, and the longer I resist that pull from the black hole, the smaller it gets.  I have to be consistent; even when he is not, ESPECIALLY when he is not.  I have to show him I am always there for him, the good, the bad and the ugly.  Maybe one day he will truly realize and accept that.  Perhaps right now he can't believe it, or won't accept it, but I hope one day he will.

I truly believe in the past he has known this.  But in the depths he is in now, he can't see it.

So when he disappears, he usually goes NC.  I respect that.  But sometimes I get the feeling that afterwards he thinks I didn't care because I didn't try the contact him. I say but you didn't want me to contact you, so I tried to respect that and didn't.

Now I wonder if I should just send him a reaffirming text, each day, just letting him know that I am still here and I still love him.

Arabella - I hope the object constancy things works that way you see it!  There have been times where he has gone and I imagine him just having a carefree time without a worry in the world and not giving me another thought.  But he sometimes says that he has been miserable, and all he has done is think about us.  I want to SCREAM - DOESN'T THAT TELL YOU SOMETHING?  But I don't.

As for his job - its unfortunate but true.  It actually a BIG issue in the industry.  He isn't trained to do anything else.  I have thought he may need to take a leave of absence in order to fully dedicate to his "recovery" or whatever we should call this hope I have for our future ... .  also since it takes him out of the home 4-5 days a week, its another easy escape plan for him.  he can disassociate from me and people when at work and function quite well, almost robotically.

It has a shelf life too - he cannot work at this profession past a certain age, no matter what.  Ive tried to encourage him to start to follow some other his other passions (well likes, he isn;t really passionate about much) to prepare and maybe transition early since that age is a LONG way off; like 25 years from now.

My H says the same things. I believe him. Why would his mood/life improve without me? I truly am not the source of his misery, his illness is, and that illness is just as present with him no matter where he goes or who he's with. So when he's gone, he has the illness and misery, but no one to help him through it. He's even more miserable. And he never puts it together. So frustrating!


I do this. Other people on these boards refer to it as sending 'pings' - little tiny bursts just to let them know you haven't abandoned them. You can't expect a response, but it does seem to help them a little. You could try it, keep the texts short and sweet, don't make it sound like they require an answer, if he doesn't want them he'll tell you.


Any chance he could qualify for retraining due to health issues? You can't make him change jobs, of course, but you could look into options in case he wants to explore that down the road. Sometimes I drop bits of info into conversations with my H, little 'seeds' ("hey, guess what I read in the paper today?" or "oh look what so-and-so is doing", and wait for them to grow. He often comes up with ideas for changes, in a completely new context, later on and then I just smile and nod. It might also come in handy to have options up your sleeve in case his mental health deteriorates further and he's forced to make changes - it will be less traumatic (for both of you!) if you have some answers/options available for him to consider. Just a thought.

Arabella, I appreciate your replies SO MUCH!   

I will send a ping, perhaps at night when he's probably less busy, more receptive and sitting alone wherever he is.  I want to reassure him that I am here, still willing to stand by him, still love him.  I don't expect a response.  I hope he reads them (I know when he has read a text), and hope he doesn't tell me to stop contacting him.  I know he is not going to be happier without me, I know I am not the source of his problems.  I hope soon he knows this too (I believe he does deep down, but he's unable to see it clearly right now).

I'm not sure about other options with his job.  But I am willing to try and explore them with him if given the chance.  His job is good right now because he doesn't have to form lasting relationships with co-workers or a boss.  He sees different people each week and only has to relate to them for a day or two at a time.  That he can handle.  He only has to relate to me a few days at a time.  Same with his D13.  Same with his Dad.  He's spent his whole adult life only having to do that a day or two at a time.

... .  On the one hand I know he needs to get away to think, clear his head, process.  On the other hand I can't ever forget what I read on here one day, that with BPD due to object constancy issues, absence makes the heart grow colder.  Im always afraid that if I am not there to remind him of our commitment, he will easily forget it, or convince himself he is better off without it.  I'd almost rather the silent treatment with him in the house than out of it.  That sounds crazy as I write it but its true.

This is exactly where I am with my partner and I will read the remainder of this thread with great interest for nuggets of wisdom. My partner has actually told me that she is afraid she will forget about us if I do not remind her; then gets upset with me for reminding her. I just don't know what to do.

So many of us are in the same boat ... .  

I was thinking about the nice, supportive, unassuming text I would send later when my H texts me for the first time today asking if I paid a certain bill (because he has himself convinced that I am purposefully not paying bills in his name - not true) because he doesn't want to pay it twice.  I text back that I haven't seen that particular bill and ask if he has one.  I realize pretty quickly how invalidating that was so follow up with a text saying sorry, obviously you have one or you wouldn't ask if I paid it.  He responds No, I called to check on it.  I say OK and reiterate that I haven't seen it.

I guess that's all I will hear today.

I still want to send something to him later.  I'll have to wait until after I get home because I imagine he has been to our house and removed more of his belongings today while I have been at work.   :'(

Mockingbird - feel free to post a draft ping text here if you'd like. :)

For context, my H actually moved out and got his own apartment. It started out that he desperately needed his own space. He couldn't stand being with me any longer. I was "driving him crazy." Sure. I offered to move out (there were practical reasons why it made more sense for me to move). That wasn't good for him. He needed to be the one leaving (he couldn't explain it but I suspect abandonment issues - he can leave, but I can't). So he found an apartment. By the time the lease started he wasn't so eager (personally I think this was the effect of the medication kicking in and him stabilizing). He moved out. Now he's texting regularly, we see each other regularly, and he's sleeping over tonight. But, of course, he can't admit that he was wrong or that he made a mistake, so he's determined to live in this other apartment for the duration of the lease (thankfully it's short, just until September). Honestly, I think half the stuff he does it's because he announced it while he was dysregulated and then can't bring himself to acknowledge that he wasn't thinking straight. So a combo of obstinacy and denial. Yay.  

I SO agree with this, I think my H is the same way.  He said he was going to do such and such and now he has to do it, even though he later realizes he doesn't want to do it as badly, or even at all.

I told his Psychiatrist yesterday I thought maybe he came home too soon in the cycle, because he seems to have reverted back to where he was a couple of weeks ago.  Couldn't push himself through this time being in the house sitting around with nothing to do or think about.  So he left again.  This time he took more stuff.  And half our $ from the bank account.

I'm TERRIFIED that he has really disassociated himself from me this time.

I keep telling myself this is not about me.  This is about his fear, his disorder etc.  I hope one day soon he can see that for himself before its too late.

He can come and go from the lakehouse whenever he wants; nobody is ever there except us anyway, although I found out his nephew and his fiance are coming in from out of town next week and they usually stay there, so not sure what he will do then.  Its got three bedrooms, so I guess he will just stay there while they are there.

I'll think about my draft ping.

Yes, it's possible.  My hubby and I are happier and communicating better than ever, at seven years of marriage.

Again, I just want to say I can so relate. My stomach has been upset all day as I am realizing that I need boundaries with my partner. As a codependent, boundaries are more frightening than looking a starving lion in the eye. If I have boundaries, then I will also have to enforce consequences. And one of those consequences could be the loss of the relationship. And I know it is wrong and unhealthy but this relationship has been the center of my universe and the definition of my life for 10 years. And I don't want to lose it. I do want it to change, but I do not want to lose it. And I am so scared. Without her, who am I?

I'm losing it here. I'm wondering if I should admit defeat and move to the Leaving Board. Not because I want to leave but because I'm obviously being left.

Only communication was via text today re another bill.

Got an email from my insurance agent saying he called with a request for change of address.  :'(

I already knew he had another bank account. He emptied half of our joint account yesterday. Now I guess he's changing his address on everything.

I can't lie. I DESPERATELY want him to come back and work on things with me. Do I need to face the facts?  He's not coming back. Maybe to get his stuff.  And tell me again he wants a divorce. He did two weeks ago. Last week he didn't. I guess now he does again.

I feel like I'm losing my mind over here.

 

I think, for your own health - mental and otherwise - you need to face the facts if only because he forced the issue himself.

I'm so sorry you're going through this; it can definitely be a very painful thing.

But this may also be a chance for you to recollect yourself and address YOUR own HEALTHY needs, wants, and desires.

Now that he walked himself out (divorce or no divorce), what do YOU need and want to be healthy (in general) and to have a healthy relationship (either a renewed one with him or someone else in the future)?

What would have to happen and what would need to be worked on for the two of you to have a healthier relationship while being honest about the truth and nature of BPD?  And etc.

The facts are:

- He's dysregulated and probably disassociated.  Even if he's getting better, he still has BPD and BPD or some other issue stemming from attachment disorder is still running his life at this moment.

- Though recovery is possible, it is also non-linear and a challenging road to walk down on.  If he's not 100% there, then the more difficulty there is in getting actual recovery.

- It is unreasonable and unrealistic at this time to expect that he will do the 'reasonable' thing and return to you 'to work things out with you'.  Why?  Because his actions are under the influence of disorderly thought patterns and dysregulation.  He MIGHT, but it isn't anything to expect or even hope for.  It is something that literally may happen but also may not.

I hope for all the best for you no matter what decision you make and no matter what road is taken.  Please take care! 

To answer your original question:

NO, to me, you are not in denial because you KNOW what it might take to make the relationship successful.  And YES, a successful relationship where one of the partners is a person with BPD IS possible... .  with a lot of work - work that you give indication that you know of and HAVE been working towards.



Unfortunately, the whole thing about taking two to tango is completely right and it also depends on what you can tolerate and accept or not accept about his behaviors (and the consequences and fallout thereof) when he dysregulates.

He's currently in non-communication mode and has upped and left and so your options in terms of 'it takes two to tango' is unfortunately a bit limited.

In the spirit of trying to see if things can work out, have you had any further discussions with the T about saving your marriage beyond what you already spoke of?

Hang in there!

Aw, MockingbirdHL

Ugh, the mind-bending pain... .    Keep reaching out here, or to friends and family; whatever will help you to get over this hump and relax a little, if only for tonight.

Keep in mind that nothing has to be resolved right this second.  You don't have to do a thing.  Breathe and maybe take a hot shower?  Sip some tea?

We are here for you and understand where you're at right now with all of this.  We care

Iced - man, the truth sure does hurt!

Right now everyone tells me he will be back. Sometime. He always comes back around. I want to believe that but I feel it's different this time. This time we are married. It should mean he should try harder to STAY but I think it's resulting in him trying harder to LEAVE.

Do I commit to Staying and wait and hope?  That's all I can do; wait and hope. But for how long?

Do I force myself to commit to Leaving and try and move on. Damaged. Hurt. Jaded. Even though that's not what my heart says, it probably is what my head says.

I guess I just don't know what to do.

 

Just because you ask yourself these questions doesn't necessarily mean the relationship 'is doomed' or anything like that.

What I do think, though, is that a re-examination of what you need, want, and desire out of yourself, him, and the relationship may not be a bad thing - a 'reality check' of sorts and to make sure YOUR needs are being met, too (you're important!) - in light of his sudden packing up and upping and leaving and other related actions.

I HAVE had a relationship with someone who was BPD and though we had some bad times for sure, it was also a successful relationship during the time it was going on which is why I DO believe that these relationships can work out... .  but with a lot of work and understanding and accepting.

Regardless of what happens, we just want you to be healthy and happy in your choices and YES, it is possible to 'stay'.

EDIT:  A marriage is a stronger and tighter committment than just 'being steady' or something similar.  To us, reasonably, it would be expected that we would try harder.

But people with BPD can be triggered by commitment issues because they can stir up old unresolved trauma related to the origins of their attachment disorder and the consequential emotional dysregulation that happens accordingly.

The closer the relationship is, the 'worse' the symptoms of BPD can be because BPD's origins are in the realm of attachment disorders and dysfunctions.

Some people may PULL - cling and shower you with communication every thirty minutes to reassure themselves that you won't leave (I'm not joking; this is what my former friend did)... .  but others may PUSH - push you away or simply leave because if they leave first, they aren't the ones who have the potential of 'being abandoned' and it also allows them to retreat back into a state of not having to confront their BPD-related issues.

It may not make sense to us, but BPD IS about disorderly thought and dysregulated emotions so a BPD person's reactions and actions may not make 'logical/reasonable' sense to people whose thought patterns and emotional stability are more... .  well... .  stable.

Iced and Phoebe - thanks for your replies. I'm having a hard time today.

I believe I know what I have to do, what I have to work on if he returns.

If he's back to being rational, he will understand his part too.

I haven't spoken to the T again since yesterday. She did tell me she spoke to him on the phone and he was considering letting her meet his D13.

I did tell her when I saw her if maybe he returned to me too early in his cycle. I've seen that before, he went from anger to depression back to anger. Last time it took about six weeks for the anger to surface again. This time it took 24 hours.

His cycles are usually either very short (hour to hour) or very long (weeks/weeks). This one has been different. Weeks of anger, a few days of depression, sudden shift back to anger.  Going backwards instead of forwards.

Unfortunately my entire family is on the other side of the world with a 15 hour time difference.  My friends have been great; but I know they're so tired of hearing this same old story from me. But they're supportive. I just hate to burden them. And they don't quite get it like the people on here.

The thing is this is our our problem and our issue, we are projecting our fears onto them. This can lead to the very "controlling" actions that they are already sensitive tp. We cannot control the 'what ifs" in their lives

Wave rider, you're so right. This is what I would want him to do if the situation were reversed. I would want him to reassure me that's he's still there and committed. That would make me feel better.

Just like we but gifts WE would like for people we don't really know, but we buy gifts for our best friend that we might hate to receive but we know they would love. I'm drawn to doing what I know will work for me, because I'm not confident anymore in what works for him.

Three weeks ago it was don't call me. I didn't. He was glad I didn't.

The next week it seemed he was disappointed that I hadn't texted him to tell him something about a family event (my family; overseas). I said but you told me not to call or contact you remember?  He said no I didn't. But he did.

It's just that he was ANGRY the first week and DEPRESSED the second. Now he's back to angry again so maybe it's better for me to keep my mouth shut.

 

I've been right in the awful spot you're in now. It sucks. Big time. I spent days crying and posting on these boards and hyperventilating and crying some more. Wretched. So I understand and I'm so sorry that you're going through this!

I'm married too. It didn't stop him from leaving. It DID stop him from running out on financial commitments and gave me reassurance that he couldn't simply walk away with everything or leave me without having to spend some time and energy untangling our affairs. So basically it bought me time and some financial security. Really it's the same with any r/s - marriage is only as binding as each person in it and either of them can walk away any time. The key for me was the time thing - I know that he dissociates, and I know he'll come back, but there needs to be enough time for that to happen. The waiting is the hardest part.

I chose to remain on the "staying" board because I felt that it represented where I was at. Why rush to make a decision about what his leaving means? He's a mess. He probably doesn't even know what he wants. Cut yourself some slack. If at some point you realize that you have to move on, then so be it. No point in forcing the issue - you'll just feel worse. Do what you want to do right now, don't try to predict the future.

This is important, everything to do with BPD is slow and ponderous, with much ebb and flow and little consistency. I have found that letting things play out is usually the best way to go. Often things dont work out as serious as the initial drama might suggest. Jumping to conclusions or trying to pro actively steer things only causes more turbulence and confuses the issue.

Living in limbo like that is very difficult though, and is when you need to be able to block "their stuff" and draw on your inner self to keep focused on "your stuff". I guess its all to do with codependency and enmeshment issues.

Luckily I am past that stage and if my partner were to go off on a self absorbed navel gazing break, I would probably take it as a chance to gain some respite, recenter and pull my stuff back to where it should be. wasn't always like that though, so I do know where you are coming from.

My partner is currently also battling with advanced breast cancer on top of everything else, so the stark reality of her not being here in the future is something that I have to seriously contemplate. I have to survive, be prepared and stay stable no matter what the future brings.

Arabella,  if its not too much information, I'd be curious how you handled your H moving out?  Did he say I'm leaving!  Or did he say I need to get away, I'll be back ... .  Or was it something in between?

Here's where I am on the whole situation right now:

1. I am hurt, terribly, severely hurt

2. I am trying to stay positive and tell myself this is the illness, the disorder, it's not really about me. Trying to keep believing that deep down he still loves me and wants to be with me.

3. If he shows up to move stuff out of our house, I guess there is nothing I can go to stop it. I doubt he has the guts to do that in my presence though. Probably while I am at work.

4. If he tells me he wants a divorce (again) I will not grant him one. Why?  First and foremost I do not want a divorce, I won't give up on this marriage without trying! And secondly, he is not in his right mind right now. I have to be the sensible one right now.

I want to believe MORE THAN ANYTHING that he will come back around to me. God I wish there was someone who could put my mind at rest about that. It's the not knowing that's killing me.

I think I ranted and raved about all of this on the boards already - so definitely not too much to ask for more info! :)

He said he was leaving. It would never work out. We needed to get a divorce. He loved me but wasn't "in love" with me anymore. I should move on. It was hopeless. We'd been in a downward spiral for at least 2 years (that was news to me). It was too late to get marriage counselling. He couldn't stand being around me any longer, etc. It was pretty extreme.

1. Yes. Me too.

2. Yes. Me too.

3. I was there when he moved his stuff out. But he was actually starting to come back around by the time the actual moving part came to be.

4. I figured if he wanted a divorce so badly he could go file the paperwork, hire a lawyer, etc. and then serve me. Why should I do the work? Besides, all of that would take time and he'd probably change his mind by then anyway. Or, if he went through with it, at least I wouldn't feel like I was the one who gave up.

Agreed - the not knowing is the worst! I'm so sorry.

Arabella, thanks for replying. Two weeks ago my H said he thinks he wants a divorce. He was second-guessing that decision within hours after we talked. Last week he didn't. He hasn't told me he does again; I guess I'm taking the leaving, the withdrawing half our bank accounts and the changing his address on everything as it.

He has been saying:

I don't know what to do anymore

I can't put myself and you and the girls through this anymore

I don't know (think?) our love is enough to get us through this

Etc

And now nothing.

I did ping him last night. He read the text but did not respond. I didn't expect a response. I was hoping, but not expecting.

Ugh. It all sounds so horribly familiar! You probably don't want to hear this but, without medication, it seems (in my limited experience) to take my H about 7 months to go through a full dissociative cycle (with ups/downs throughout). It's a bit shorter for me because I don't notice it right away, so the first two months or so go by with my just thinking he's a little 'off' or cranky or depressed. The next 4-5 are pure hell. A very short taper to normalcy toward the end. Then I get to try to put it all back together again while he tries to grapple with his emotions in the aftermath.

I'd take no response as a positive. He didn't tell you to stop texting - that's pretty good (sadly)!

If you'd asked me three weeks ago how long this cycle was, I would have said three weeks.

But my H mentioned several times when we were actually talking that he had been putting himself through hell for five/six months. We had an explosion in December. Another at the end of January/start of February and then this one which started late April.  I used to see them as separate events - because everything was (seemed) good in between!  Now I need to realize it may be one long drawn out cycle. 

Looking back, the other REALLY bad one was late January/ start February through June.  Again at the time I thought it was several in that time period, but perhaps not.

I did take the fact that he read the text and didn't respond negatively as a positive ... .  At least the best positive I can hope for right now.  Although his fingers still work, wish he would have texted back ... .  

Haven't had any contact since I sent that text. Pretty sure he spent the day with his D13 who he hasn't seen in about three or four weeks.  I wouldn't have denied him that; just wish he was in a place to include me as his perception of my relationship with her is his BIGGEST issue.

Small glimmer of hope:

Just received this text from dBPDh: when I spoke to Dr. T she told me I was reacting strictly on emotion. I believe that she was right and I'm coming off that emotional rush now. Just wanted to let you know.

I replied: thats good to hear. I'm here whenever you're ready to talk.

He replied: thanks.

This makes me feel relieved. I'm not going to push. He has to go out of town tomorrow through Tuesday so that will give him a few more days to clear his mind. 

 |iiii Really great that he has a T he listens to. Just hang in there (I know it's hard)!

Interesting that both his really bad cycles, assuming you lump them into longer periods rather than the shorter bursts, both started the same time of year too. The two I've gone through with my H both started in December, became very apparent to me around February, and then lasted the first time until July, this time until May (but this time he got medication). My H has SAD (usually mild), but I think it's enough to push him over the edge when other factors build up - perhaps it could be similar for yours? We're thinking one of those special therapy lights might help in the future, is that something your husband could maybe utilize?

re object consistency. Often if you give them a physical object that will obviously remind them and you. They can hold it and reconnect if they feel the need.

Arabella - yes, there is definitely a pattern there. I think it's holidays / important dates that remind him that his brother and mother are still gone. Christmas is always a nightmare. His birthday is the first week of February. His brother committed suicide in March.  Now we have out wedding anniversary in April. Followed by Mothers Day in May and his brothers birthday in June.   

I can pretty much count on any big day, for him or me or my D10, being compromised or completely ruined.

WaveRider - I like that idea. Reminds me of when my D10 was little and used to go to visit relatives out of state ... .  She'd take a tshirt of mine to sleep in.  :) 

Just wanted to say I see the same exact patterns with ex.

He always feels differently later and seeks me out.

We are not married, but were engaged and lived together; now I have my own place.

One wrinkle in my situation; when he flips out and feels bad, in his mind, it's cause I'm not the right partner afterall, and if I'm not the right one, then someone else is. He can't be alone, and so the fantasy of the perfect love that's out there somewhere, takes center stage.

He is in that head space right now.

If the six year pattern continues, he may date, eventually feel differently, and want nothing

more than to come back to me and us.

If he just did his own thing until he felt better, it would still be hard... .  but do-able... .  but if it

means involving others every single time he panics, that makes things a bit more untenable.

In the Past I would break ties with him, completely... .  when he would do this pull away. This

probably contributed to abandonment panic and his need to date and act on finding another

Ms.right quickly. I'm not cutting off all ties with him this time; so, I'm curious to see if he

still acts out his need to actually find Ms. Right or if he can just be away until he feels better

again.

In the past, when he feels better, he can see the folly of his pattern, but when in it he

doesn't see it that way,  or views me as the problem or our relationship as the problem.

I'm not emotionally attached to either outcome right now (thank god)... .  But it's the first time I've handled this differently, and I'm curious how it will turn out.

Maybe so - I wish I wasn't emotionally attached to the outcome, but I am, DEEPLY DEEPLY DERPLY attached.

As far as I know there's never been someone else when we've broken up in the past. I don't think there is now. I hope not. I couldn't stand that thought.

It's just so tiring being the one giving giving giving and getting nothing in return. But I know that's the way it's always going to be when he's dysregulated. I feel like I do get something in return when he's not, but now I need to learn to trust it (if I get the chance).

My ex has been in therapy for about 8 years.

The push pull so far seems to be the same.

I don't give give give with nothing in return.

That is a recipe for resentment; I make sure my life is full, irrespective of his comings and goings. But it took 6 years to gain that level of... .  acceptance.

He does nothing to prevent me from seeking my own happiness; other than to be someone who doesn't stay put.

He offers a lot, is generous,  and is good company.

I was just watching the movie Out of Africa today. Robert Redfords character comes and goes, and refuses to marry or embark on a traditional relationship. Meryl Streeps character is always jockeying for some sense of security from him, and hates his comings and goings.  And she eventually ends the romance because he won't comply with her requests.  Its an all too familiar story.

I'm glad your husband is seeing a therapist, that's a good thing.

MaybeSo, I've thought of Out of Africa so MANY times in recent months, about the Redford character and his departures and returns.  I just couldn't recall how she dealt with it & how it all turned out.  Bummer.  I think what makes BPD even harder though is that RR never told Meryl he was all about them staying together, that them staying together was the most important thing in his life, nothing had ever been so important.  (At least I'm thinking he didn't.)  It's the RR act combined with the residual disbelief that the person who pulls you so close and gets panicky that you are leaving, actually can also need so much space.  Right?  It's the continual mixed messages that make acceptance even more challenging than with your ordinary free spirit adventurer rake. 

Hi P&c,

I love Out Of Africa, gorgeous music and cimemtography. Good story, too.

They don't show the RR character making a lot of false or unrealistic (grandiose) proclamations. My ex has stopped doing that, too. In that respect I think he is maturing.

The RR character does however sweep in with a huge presence, they obviously enjoy eachother physically, intellectually, spiritually.

In a scene where Meryle Streep pushes the marriage issue... .  he responds... .  "I'd mate for life, one day at a time."

She also asserts that when he goes away, it's not always for Safari, it's just that he needs to be away (from her). He is honest and says yes, it's true. It's not meant to hurt her... .  

I have watched the movie and totally resonated with the Streep character, and I also get his point of view, too.

It's a really good movie.