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BPD mom has set a hearing to stop us from using a neutral counselor to help DH's and DSD's relationship AND to get some money.

The GAL was suggesting that we use the counselor BPD mom wanted us to (one DSD has been seeing individually), but we strongly believe she is a negative advocate AND it is a conflict of interest for her to see DSD individually while seeing DH and DSD together.

SOO... . we piggy-backed on their hearing and filed for a hearing to get family counseling ordered.

And this time we have an expert witness to talk about PA and what a negative advocate is and how convincing high conflict people can be.

Good news is our expert knows the judge and says he has a hot button about PA.  

For once, things may go our way.  Our GAL just feels sorry for BPD mom.  The expert is confident that the judge will not be as easily snowed as the GAL.

DH is uneasy about running over BPD mom again and again talking about the numerous alienation tactics she has been using--he is worried about how she will react.

I am just wondering if the best defense is a good offense when you are dealing with a BPD in court.  She hates confrontation in person... .

sanemom,

Just to clarify, did your L suggest this expert witness?

Is this a trial?

I'm just confused about having an expert there and how this works.

Also do you have evidence of PA that your L thinks is solid? I think kids are with you all majority time right? Is mom trying for more time?

Sorry to ask so many questions... .

mamachelle

Go for it.  Let it all hang out.  Too little has been said or disclosed for the court or other officials to make fully informed decisions.  About time.

BM initially called this hearing in an attempt to get DH in trouble for writing a letter to her friend... . he didn't say anything slanderous, but she is upset.  He wrote this letter 4 months ago and hasn't contacted her friend since.  Then she is also demanding that we use DSD's individual therapist for reunification therapy between DH and DSD.  Judging from her demeanor, she is truly excited about having her day in court to hang DH out to dry.

I am not sure that will happen for her... . you can't ever really tell, though.

That is where the expert comes in to testify that it is not ethical to use the same therapist and then also to testify that you don't use the same therapist ESPECIALLY where there has been PA.

We have the boys, but BM has severely alienated DSD from her father (DSD lives with BM).  We have tons of documentation, but the BIG ONE is that DH found out during my deposition that DSD was told when she was 8 that DH was not her bio dad and then DSD was told not to tell DH the truth.  My DH did not find out until four years later that he was not her bio dad IN MY DEPOSITION.  How is that for PA?

No judge has heard the PA claims--the only one who has is the GAL, and it is clear the GAL doesn't get it.  The judge has been trained by Bill Eddy recently so I bet he DOES get it.  

So we are basically asking for a different therapist, and we are using the expert to discuss the PA and the ethics and how they impact the choice of which therapist.

Sounds good to me. Keep us posted.  |iiii

Oh yeah... . forgot to add, BM wants money, too.  She wants child support.  She was over four years behind and has never paid a copay (she was supposed to pay half), but she wants DH to pay her money to take care of DSD while he takes care of their boys because he has a job and can keep one.  She went 15 months without a job, probably in an attempt to look poor and extort money from her ex-h (married 9 weeks), and she just now lost her job that she has had for 5 months (right before court).  I think she truly believes that the judge will take pity on her because she keeps accusing DH of "stealing money" from her in her texts lately.

Hi Sanemom,

Yes, now is the time. It sounds like your L is using a good approach: using the pwBPD own words and actions to trap herself.


This sounds like a good approach. I like it that you aren't assuming that the judge will know how important it is that you have a non-biased counselor.


This is what you need to do. Let her expose herself to the court. She's done it to herself, not DH. Let the judge hear it so that he can make an informed decision. Judges don't really or understand what BPDs are like behind closed doors.

Her reacting badly in court is good for DH! The more she shows her inability to control herself to the court, the better. BPD behavior is hard for people who haven't witnessed it to understand. Ditto with the effect this behavior has on people. Her acting out in front of the judge is the best (only?) way for him to really understand her behavior. Seeing is truly believing. Putting her on the defense using things that she has done or said herself may be just what you need to help the judge understand what is happening.

Best of luck,

AnotherPheonix    |iiii

How do we (or our lawyer) best get her to best lose ability to control herself?  She is not a raging borderline... . she is a waif who plays victim quite well.  :-(

Quite a few of our members (including me) have found that if the disordered party is put under a lot of stress, in front of the judge or in another situation where her behavior will be recorded, that's a pretty good way for the court to see the problem directly, and really get it.

You have to be fair - your lawyer should be prepared to confront her with reality and evidence, but not to beat her up.

In my case, this happened in depositions - both of us were sworn in and asked questions by the opposing attorney.  My attorney had told me just to relax and answer truthfully, but as briefly as possible.  I worked with my attorney, so she was well-prepared to ask my wife a lot of tough questions.  She had to either tell the truth, which she didn't want to do, or lie under oath;  then we had time to find evidence before the trial, so we could prove the lies at trial.

It worked very well.  My wife melted down and said a bunch of stuff which wasn't true and wasn't smart - even some stuff that didn't help her case.  She looked really bad, and it was all on the record.

Help your attorney figure out the key topics, and questions that will put her under lots of stress.

COURT WENT WELL. Our expert could not come in until the afternoon, and the judge had another engagement in the afternoon so the lawyers went into chambers and worked it out. Our lawyer made it a point MANY times about the alienation and her BPD, and her lawyer tried to imply DH had some issues, but our lawyer quickly responded that he did not. Anyway, the judge wants DH and DSD's relationship rebuilt, and he ordered DH to have three individual sessions with our expert witness, who will then be talking with DSD's therapist to see if she is up for the job of dealing with Parental alienation.

The judge has also ordered that no parent talk about the case to the kids and has ordered mediation.  BPD mom's lawyer asked if DH could pay for BPD mom's portion because BPD mom is having financial difficulties, and the judge laughed and said he was not going to have DH pay for her legal fees.

So we didn't necessarily get a new counselor, but we got a good counselor for DH who the judge respects and can mediate the situation with DSD's counselor if she is not doing her job correctly.

Great news sanemom! Funny that she requested the hearing and then asked your H to pay for it.Entitlement knows no bounds!

I just realized that this action by the judge says a lot.  The GAL has been very biased towards BPD mom, and it looks like he now has to share his throne with a PA expert.  I am thinking that means that the GAL has lost some credibility with the judge. 

It wasn't a big win, but it was a step in the right direction.  We just want some healing... .

Yeah, I think a strategy of getting everything out in the open - shining the bright light of day on any relevant information - is probably best.

Two professionals involved will probably help.

As I sat digesting the day, I realized it was a bigger win than I thought.  In a way, it sounds like the GAL was somewhat dethroned as now someone else has been appointed to monitor the therapy.  And the GAL was acting all weird at the end, trying to assert his power or something, and I am sure it is because he is eating crow.  Anyway, here is a summary note of what DH's lawyer said happened today:

What happened today was pretty significant.  A shift in the courts first impression of DH and this entire lawsuit - not only does the judge now see some of BPD mom's serious behavioral issues, he can relate to DH's frustrations as a father.  

The case moved from a custody fight to a reunification for DH and DSD.  BPD mom just rendered herself insignificant to the matter.