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OK so I'm getting my first real chance to test out boundaries.  

Someone posted a picture on Facebook of me and my friend, and I commented "awww, I love this picture" and she responded, "Yes! We look so innocent and pure! Just the way we are!" To be honest, I don't even know why she put that, it's a weird comment but whatever, I figured she was making a joke. My BPh freaked about the comment because she is one of my single friends who I used to go dancing with years ago when I was single. I never do anything "single" when I'm out with her since I met H, we just go to dinner or hang out at her house, things like that.  Here are some of his emails to me:

"it indicates you aren't sweet and innocent, not very cool"

"Thats what I will think when you go out, looks innocent but isn't"

"The comment from her asserts that you are doing things behind my back. It is unacceptable! Your friend did this, it isn't ok"

"and your spiral comment comes across as another BORDERLINE dig. Your friend asserts you aren't behaving yourself, it makes for trouble"

"So now you will ignore a serious issue in our marriage. Your friend writes on facebook that you aren't trustworthy and it becomes my fault. You ignore my email and that withdrawal is abusive. I am trying to solve a problem and you call me names and play games"

"I am very upset about that comment, your dig at me, and your game playing"

"The way you are treating me in this situation is shocking. If we don't handle this shortly it will blow up tonight."

I have ignored these emails, other than a few emails I sent back to him, saying "Yeah, I saw that.  :)on't even understand it.  I can't help what other people say", another that said "aaaand, the spiral begins" (probably shouldn't have said that one), "That's a verbally abusive comment and I will not respond to any more of these emails that insinuate I'm doing things behind your back.  I am a good person and a faithful wife", and  "I do not want to talk about relationship problems while I am at work via email".  

I have learned that I need to set boundaries - one of my boundaries that I have already clarified with him a couple weeks ago is that we will no longer discuss relationship issues through emails at work.  The boundary is for myself - not him - that I don't deserve to be verbally abused, threatened, or stressed at work when he spirals.  Well, he accuses me of "running away" or "ignoring" him.  I'm assuming this is an extinction burst?  I'm not sure where to go from here - I'm scared of his threats and because of that, I have handled things poorly in the past by screaming, fighting back, trying unsuccessfully to placate him, etc.  

If I try to explain that he is overreacting, it's like talking to a brick wall.  I just don't know what to do when he gets like this.  Wait for the storm to pass?  My son's high school graduation is tonight and I will have a difficult time forgiving him if he ruins that for me.  I know I shouldn't let him ruin anything, but that's easier said than done.  

Hey there.  For me, it would be time for a little validation.  He's genuinely upset (and frankly he probably has a right to be).  I think that its easy to put all the blame on BPD in these relationships.


Is a good normal, rational response... . but maybe something like.

"Its completely understandable that you are upset by they comment.  I think anyone would be.  Unfortunately I have to work right now so we'll definitely hash this out later." 

That might take some wind of his sails instead of just feeling ignored.

The thing is that just by putting boundaries in place doesn't mean that its all going to be smooth sailing.  He's going to get mad... . you are doing to get mad.  Do the right thing and then step back and let him self-sooth.

Hope that this is somewhat helpful 

Hi sjm7411,

I'm very new to this forum myself, and to the world of BPD. I've just learned about it over the past month or so because of discovering that i have an uBPDbf of 9 years.

Im very sorry you have to deal with his PBD behaviors. It sucks, i know. I don't have any advice for you being so new, but I just wanted you to know that you're not alone. Your story sounds a lot like many of mine and probably a lot of others here.

If I was in your shoes I probably would have done exactly what you did, it sounds like you set and maintained your boundaries well. (Again, I'm new so I could be wrong.) As for tonight, if he's still in a rage, can you go to graduation without him? Or would that make him rage worse? I know someone with much better advice will be here to support you. Just want you know know you're not alone. Good luck and enjoy tonite the best you can... . it's all about your son!

Allibaba - thanks for the suggestions.  Validation is difficult for me, especially when he is basically saying he won't trust me when I go out.  That is such an insult to me.  If I try to be understanding, that won't be enough for him.  He will demand that I contact my friend about it, and the next time we get together he will make nasty comments about it.  If I don't contact her, he is going to say it means I don't love him.

Angelnme - thanks, it's really been helpful to know I'm not alone.  I never know if I'm doing the right thing or not or if it's ME.  If he doesn't go to the graduation, I think that will make things worse.  I am just going to try to focus on my son, like you said. 

I make it a point not to get thrown around like a little ragdoll in my husband's whims when he's like that.  No, sorry, I am not going to contact my friend.  I KNOW that her comment is just a joke.  If you don't believe me... . well that is your feeling to deal with.  I'd probably give my friend a heads up before we got together in person next time just in case my husband made a comment.  Reality is that he might not... . because the situation may be long gone.

Validation in the right instances goes a long way to diffusing a situation.

Good luck and Angelnme is right.  Focus on your son tonight.

His response to my validating:

BPH:  Is it safe to assume you will continue your awful behavior towards me all day and expect me to be nice for the family festivites today?

ME:  There is no awful behavior on my part.  We established a few weeks ago that we would not email about these types of things at work, and I am simply sticking to that.  It's understandable that her comment bothered you.  It is not OK to say you don't trust me.  We'll talk about this maturely at home after the graduation or tomorrow when we have more time.   

BPH:  I am really upset about all this today, very upset and disgusted. I am very sad you are handling things the way you are. It really makes me resentful.

Check out information on JADE.  Your response to him was defending yourself, not validating him.  This part was validating "It's understandable that her comment bothered you." But because it was hidden in the middle - he probably didn't pick up on it.   

It IS OK for him to say that he feels that he can't trust you.  That is his feeling and that is his right to feel that way. 

The boundary is that you are at work and you can't talk about it right now.  Its possible that saying that he doesn't trust you turns into something verbally abusive and then you need to deal with the ramifications of that separately.

Try this:

"I really didn't mean to make you feel like I don't care about your feelings.  I got defensive because I adore you so much and the idea that you don't trust me hurts me.  Its completely understandable that you are upset by that comment.  Anyone would feel that way based on my friend's facebook post.  Unfortunately I have to work right now so we'll definitely hash this out later.  I do love you very much.  Maybe we can talk about it when I take a lunch break at noon." 

Sjm7411,

My comments are coming from a place of knowing how my own husband would react.  I hope that you find them somewhat helpful. 

To be honest, my husband has very few trust issues with me but if he saw that kind of comment on facebook it would get his back up. 

He would fly into a verbally abusive rage calling me names and telling me that he wants a divorce.  Your husband may be acting somewhat aggressively but he seems like he is really crying out that he is hurting.  You can't and shouldn't take responsibility for something that you didn't do (acting badly in public), but its ok to try to understand why he's saying these things to you.

Allibaba

You're right.  I did JADE.  God this is hard.  I like your response to him, I think I'll just copy and paste what you said, if you don't mind... . LOL

Please do!

And don't take it personally if it doesn't work right away.  Sometimes I respond to my husband with something like that and by that point he's mad so he says "GO AWAY and stop talking all your therapy talk to me."

Not my problem.  But deep inside of him it registers that I heard him and it may not fill the big whole... . but it fills a little of the hole.

Now back to work for you!  :)

Well things turned from bad to worse yesterday and he came home in a very foul mood while my whole family was over for my son's graduation party.  I thought things had blown over because I called him during lunch and did all the validating, listening, acting like I understood where he was coming from.  But, it hadn't blown over in his head, and I had a feeling it wouldn't - he just can't let things go plus he was really angry about my setting boundaries of no emails at work.  Everyone in my family saw him act like a jerk and I ended up snapping at him to stop being rude and then had to apologize to my family for bickering in front of them.  It was really embarrassing and I felt bad for my son.  Then he sulks in the corner for the party, real mature.  Now my dad, mom and stepfather are all worried about me and aren't too impressed with his childish behavior.  He was better during the ceremony, but honestly I think he was just trying to save face because as soon as we get home, he starts complaining that my mother was rude to HIM.  At that point, all my "communication tools" went out the window and I lost it and started screaming at him (then of course I'm the one with the temper).  I told him today that he needs to get help and he needs to stop the verbal abuse completely, that I've had enough of it and I'm not going to tolerate it anymore, and that I will stay but there needs to be some serious changes. He acted sorry and said "I know I have issues", and that counseling isn't such a bad idea.  Maybe the fact that I confronted him in front of other people and he couldn't "hide" his behavior made it more real to him. 

Having my own struggles today/ yesterday... . but the one thing I wanted to say is that you didn't protect him when he was acting badly.  A key to a relationship with a BPD is allowing them to fail when they have brought it on themselves.  Let them experience consequences to their actions (I like it).  Oh and just because we have a spouse with BPD doesn't mean that we are robots!  Its easy to forget that we get to have feelings too.

That is so true, and I think that's exactly what happened!  He felt the consequences for his behavior in a big way and it threw him for a loop.  I usually do protect him, and he will do subtle things in front of people because he knows I don't want to be embarrassed and won't say anything.  Frankly, yesterday I didn't care one bit if my family caught on to him. 

And you didn't care because you are learning to untangle yourself emotionally from him.  You still have emotions about situations but they are your feelings... . not as tied to him  :)

wow... . that's really cool.  Never thought of it that way.

I have 2 frig magnets

Rights of Relatives

We need to have healthy selfishness

We need to learn to say no

We need to have an emotional support network

We need to acept we cannot solve our relative's problems

We need to accept we will lose our cool at times

Basic Assumtions to be Effective

People need to interpret things in the most benign way posible

There is no one way or absolute truth

Everyone is doing the best they can

Everyone needs to try harder

Also when talking of making improvements remember you are running a marithon with baby steps

Sorry, what? He has a right to be upset? Not really. Does he have a right to react and maturely talk through what bothers him? Sure. But this is not a comment that the poster put up, and frankly, it's pretty low key. People say this kind of thing all the time, and if you had a non-BPD spouse, they may or may not even notice it, much less get upset and start sending tons of snarky emails.

IMHO, it is NOT ok for the husband to be upset, and even less OK for him to be openly aggressive about that upset.

What the frig magnets say is that it is ok if you get upset. Not a good thing to do, but DO NOT beat yourself up if you get upset once in a while.

Really, as having a BPDW I know it is impossable at times not, to as much as it does not help the situation

Shamrock, those are great tips, thank you.  I am learning how to say no.  And coasterhusband, I have to agree with you that I thought he completely overreacted about my friend's FB post... .

He doesn't have a right to feel XYZ... .

This is a sentence/belief/thought that will get you into a lot of trouble and make validation nearly impossible.

I can see how some people wouldn't even register that comment.

I can see how some people would find it pretty uncomfortable or alarming.

I can't control how someone feels. Feelings are neither right or wrong, they are physical sensations that appear in our bodies and everyone is unique.

Some people have had experiences that make for a kind if overly aroused physiology that increases their sensitivity to danger, especially interpersonal danger.

We have a right to takes steps to reinforce our own boundaries if how they express their feelings is off or inappropriate or abusive.

However, telling a person they have no right to feel the feeling their body is generating is

like telling a person they have no right to have a liver, or a heart, or an arm. It's there, it's

real, how can we shame them for having a real thing that exists? THAT IS CRAZY MAKING,

it does not compute, and it will increase anyone's sense of interpersonal danger , rather

than create a environment that at least confirms the reality of the feeling, or the arm, or

the heart... . it is there, it does exist.

Some feelings are nearly impossible to understand ... . but with enough curiosity, the feeling

almost always makes perfect sense given THAT persons experience, background, etc.

I do not qualify for BPD, but as an example of how different we all are, I can totally

empathize with the example in this thread. I would feel yucky reading a comment that jokes

about how my partner and her friend aren't really so innocent.  It would bring up some

yucky feelings for me, and the feelings make sense on some level based on my experiences

and who I am. I would likely not badger someone about it... . but if I did say something and

was told I don't have a right to my feelings... . My arousal would go from 3 to about an 8.

This is why emotional validation can be so effective.

MaybeSo - wow, great points, I read your reply 3 times to let it sink in.  I am certainly learning a lot since finding this website and I really appreciate all the different viewpoints.  I think seeing it that way can make a profound difference in the relationship.  I need to remember this one the next time I think my H doesn't have a "right" to feel a certain way about something (which I often do when it seems irrational to me).  The biggest problem I have is the way he approaches me about it, and I need to fine-tune the way I handle it. 

 

I know, it's really hard.

Keep in mind if your husband (or me or anyone!) has a strong feeling that seems insulting or irrational TO YOU... . it actually gives you information about them, and it says a lot about them, not you.

eg., if I get pretty alarmed over an innocent comment when you know you are actually a very trustworthy person... . it says I may be very wounded in a way that has to do with trust.  You don't have to take it personally that it's specifically or personally about you... . I think we tend to get dysregulated ourselves when the feelings of others seem either irrational (which simply means we aren't yet in their shoes yet... . if you were in their shoes, the feeling would  make perfect sense to you, too)... . or it is insulting in some manner, eg.,  they don't trust us and we know we are trustworthy.  Keep in mind it's painful to feel untrusting. It's not a fun feeling. Very painful, gross... . yucky. Empathy hears the pain without making it about you, without agreeing with his 'story', or allowing him to off load his painful sensations onto you.

When you get started JADING... . you actually are cooperating in allowing him to off load his pain ONTO you... . because you are defending .as though his feelings belong to you, not him... . and that his feelings really are all about you... . when it's not. They reside in HIS BODY, not yours.

Emotional validation and empathy to many feels like we HAVE to agree with crap we don't agree with... .

When it isn't that at all.

It's acknowledging that someone elses painful feelings ARE indeed painful, make perfect sense to the person who is experiencing the pain in their own body, the feeling is REAL for them... . and it's THEIR's to own... . NOT YOURS.  Emotional validation actually promotes ownership of our own yucky feelings.  

Arguing is about bullying, control, and confused boundaries.

Yes, I do find myself becoming dysregulated when I feel unfairly attacked, and that is the part that I need to work on.  You're right, I can't change how he feels one bit.  I can only protect myself, and change how I react.  I think I am slowly learning not to take his feelings personal as I learn more about BPD.  I had an opportunity to validate yesterday and I also stepped away from my own feelings of "he shouldn't feel this way", I think I was more empathetic to his feelings than I have been in the past, and the result was very positive.  I sidestepped what could have easily turned into an argument and it felt like a win-win. 

This is really awesome!

I'm glad that Maybeso articulated so well what I was trying to say when I said that your husband had a right to be upset.  I wasn't trying to say that it was ok to react so strongly... . I was just trying to put myself in his shoes and understand where he might be coming from.  I love that you are doing that and seeing positive results :)

sjm, sometimes you just can't validate. That's OK, that is where you are at the time. I've sure been there.

Sometimes you know that if your lips start moving right now, you will be JADE'ing or doing something invalidating.

You can work on all the better things you would do instead at your leisure... . and MaybeSo and others have given you GREAT advice in that direction. Here's my advice for times like this:

Try to notice that you are in a mood where you can't relate well, you can't be the adult in the situation. Then GET THE HECK OUTTA THERE before you make it worse.

I've slammed the door on my way out saying "If I stay here any longer I will say something that I regret. I'll be back later."

It isn't exactly validating... . but at least I'm stopping the emotional cutting that I would be doing.

 GK